So now that the rebel flag is being lowered at state capitols, what do y’all think about the rest of the Confederate tchotchkes littering the landscape down South, such as CSA war memorials in town squares, etc.? Should they be pulled down like Saddam Hussein’s statue in Baghdad or allowed to stand?
Our local rag had a story today concerning that — House Rep Kathy Castor (D-Of Course) proposed replacing one of Florida’s two designated statues at the US Capitol. Currently, one statue depicts Dr. John Gorrie, a physician who pioneered air-conditioning — blessed be his name! Castor agrees that we should keep Dr. Gorrie, and who in this 100% humidity hellhole could possibly disagree with that?
The other statue depicts Confederate General Kirby Smith, who really didn’t have much of a connection to Florida at all other than being born in St. Augustine. Castor says we should replace him:
“I call on all Floridians to consider great leaders, scientists, teachers, artists and more who reflect the essence of our great state and join the effort to select a statue for the U.S. Capitol,” Castor said in a prepared statement. “The time is now as a wave is sweeping the country to revisit symbols and representations that better reflect the accuracy of our nation’s history and a more inclusive legacy. I urge the Florida Legislature and Governor to give this every consideration, focus on Florida’s historical leaders who have been a positive influence and turn the page on a terrible chapter in America’s history.”
Well, you can just imagine the comments section!
I’d be in favor of finding out who invented mosquito repellent and honoring that person, whether he or she ever set foot in Florida or not. That noble soul, along with Dr. Gorrie, made this swamp inhabitable.
But anyway, what should be the fate of Confederate war memorials and statues? I’m leaning towards the opinion that they should be left in place with historical markers added to put the war in its proper context, i.e., state outright that it was about preserving slavery.
Maybe the deployment of these new historical markers could be accompanied by the addition of new memorials, museums, etc., to acknowledge the injustice of slavery and the sustained campaign of domestic terrorism that followed the Civil War, honor slain Civil Rights activists, etc.
I’m really not sure. What say you?
dr. bloor
“I call on all Floridians to consider great leaders, scientists, teachers, artists and more who reflect the essence of our great state and join the effort to select a statue for the U.S. Capitol,”
So, will Timmeh’s statue depict him throwing a pass, healing a child or simply Tebowing?
dmsilev
@efgoldman: Now, now. Some of them could be usefully melted down. Bronze is reasonably valuable.
OzarkHillbilly
I would say memorials to particular individuals (I’m looking at you Nathan Bedford Forrest) should in all likelihood be removed, but memorials to the Confederate soldiers in general should remain. The truth is Lee, and Mosby, and Jackson, and Johnson would probably agree. The CSA had no medals for bravery or any thing else. They felt all sacrificed and all exhibited bravery and to single any individual out would be denigrating to the rest.
(as per Ken Burns’ “Civil War”)
Betty Cracker
@dr. bloor: Haha! That would never fly — the FSU fans wouldn’t stand for it.
Fair Economist
That’s the approach of Berlin, which I found to be the most honest city I’ve ever seen. They didn’t tear down the Brandenburg gate – but they did build the Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe right next to it. It works.
David Koch
Nathan Bedford Forrest needs to go.
Not only did he start the KKK, but during the civil war he massacred captured black soldiers. Lined them up against the wall and machine gunned them. He was a war criminal, no different than Nazi Waffen SS.
Imagine if Germany decided to erect a statute to Reinhard Heydrich, the world outrage would make them cave in a New York second.
geg6
@OzarkHillbilly:
I really don’t give a shit about what traitorous generals thought about anything. Fuck them.
For myself, I say get them all off public, tax payer funded property. If some single asshole, a group of assholes or a company owned/run by assholes want them to display on their private property, have at it and give them to them. Then I’ll know to avoid them forever more.
Dee Loralei
habitable, not unhabitable. Yes, I am a pedant. There’s a statue if Forrest in Memphis that needs to be relegated to someplace not public.
piratedan
I like the factoids about actually discussing slavery, I think that would be useful, but I also think some new monuments would be welcome, if you want to celebrate some civic accomplishments and individuals, it would give some local artisans some work and give city planners and councils something else to do other than screw the poors.
Keith G
I think public buildings (several schools here in Houston) get renamed.
I think individual monuments should be handled case by case. If the monument becomes a rallying point for racist sentiment then it needs to go.. If not, let it stand if that what it’s community is okay with.
I have no problem with the losers of a rebellion getting a bit of face time as a reminder that bad shit happens and that our history is full of people who think they are on the side of angels but are not.
Roger Moore
@OzarkHillbilly:
That’s about how I feel, too. One thing that would be good would be to see if there were any locals who had served the Union- there were a scattering white Union loyalists all over the South, as well as a lot of former slaves- and make sure they’re memorialized, too.
skerry
I’d like to see the military bases named for Confederate Generals/Officers renamed.
ETA: 9 bases named for Generals and 1 for a Colonel.
gian
Andrew Jackson was instrumental in wresting the floridas from Spain.
(But I troll)
realbtl
@OzarkHillbilly: I’m kind of with you, the generic monuments need to stay. I’d only add to the inscription “They fought and died for the wrong cause.”
Roger Moore
@Fair Economist:
I don’t see why they would, since it long predates the Nazis. I think a lot of Speer’s monstrosities did get knocked down, though.
jl
@Fair Economist:
” They didn’t tear down the Brandenburg gate – but they did build the Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe right next to it ”
Might be a good idea. Monuments to suffering sacrifices and contributions of slaves and free African-American and other progressive citizens alongside the Confederate memorials.
Would be interesting to see what choices different localities would make. I’m sure many would be OK with that idea. I’m afraid some would rather tear down the Confederate monuments. Just as Stephens condemned Jefferson for being insufficiently racist.
satby
@Fair Economist: I like this, though anything with Forrest on it needs to be scrapped.
and OT, copied this from a couple of posts down because it pisses me off:
The national GOP in Congress is targeting AmeriCorps too.
I’m an AmeriCorps alum, and it’s the closest thing we have to a non-military national service. So of course it has to go, according to the vile shitstains of the GOP. Every single day, I find new ways to hate them more.
Bill Murray
You could make a monument to the guy that invented Gatorade. Or I guess to Florida Man. That’s about all I know about Florida
bystander
Good news, everybody! Bobby Jindal is taking his turn as Lucky Number 13. A little disappointed that he didn’t enter the way they had him appear to deliver the anti-SOTU a few years ago. I thought he was a shoe-in to replace Jonathan Frid in the Dark Shadows re-make.
shawn
taking them down full stop just feels wrong, because it is like whitewashing our history – i guess thats the problem, how do you remember without feeling like you are honoring – maybe a museum is the place for them
or as an above poster noted “They didn’t tear down the Brandenburg gate – but they did build the Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe right next to it. It works.”
Turgidson
Someone on the twitters, responding to something TNC or Bouie said I think, suggested that the statues, and monuments remain, but that an additional statue of Grant or Sherman giving the Confederate soldier the finger or pointing and laughing be built in the vicinity. I could get behind that idea.
kbuttle
Well, if we went the mosquito repellant route, that would put us back a hundred or so thousand years to one of us smearing our skin in ochre chalk made red from hematite.
A worthy invention to be certain, but I’m not sure sending to Washington a statue of a caveman or cavewoman conjures quite the imagery Florida is looking to reinforce in this age of Florida Man and Stand Your Ground…
Schlemazel
I apologize in advance, I have told this story here before but it fits so well into this storyline. Went to a 4th of July celebration in Melbourne FLA when we lived in that area. Part of the activities was a battle reenactment between a group of traitor reenactors and a group of kids from Orlando reenacting the Mass 54th (the ‘colored’ battalion that was the focus of “Glory”) There were two engagements, in the morning it was agreed the Union would win & in the afternoon the traitors. The morning show ended with a smattering of polite applause, the afternoon ‘win’ by the South was met with thunderous cheers and hooting. It pissed me off and I really would like to know what the AA kids thought of it.
Woodrowfan
add a statue for Jackie Gleason, for promoting Miami!
Mr. Prosser
Any memorial that mixes the names of Confederate dead and service members who died in service to the United States must be split. Keep them if you want but they are not equal. Dump the generals and politicians.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
What is this “history” you speak of? Lindsey Graham, the Beltways’ second most respected voice on foreign policy and VSP of the First Rank, is unaware
raven
I remember being at a UU fellowship service in Tempe some years back. The topic was whether or not to purge the UU Hymnal of sexist language. There was vigorous debate but I recall the one that won out was a view that historical documents needed to be in place in order to remember and debate the past. I don’t really know. There are people who think we should do away with the US Flag because of Hiroshima and Vietnam among other things.
Keith G
@shawn:
That’s a concern I have, that’s why above I mentioned that individual communities need to sort this out. I don’t want us to erase all the offensive stuff from our history. That is just another dimension of wrong thinking.
NotoriousJRT
I am with you, Betty, in many cases. But, I have to admit that I believe statues of the leaders who instigated the South to secession and Civil War should be taken down. Jeff Davis – down; Alexander Stephens – down; I cannot summon all the names of those whose rhetoric inflamed the masses to secession and war or whose greed, hubris, and bigotry kept them from counseling the masses to take a less destructive path. Those folks deserve no statures – annotated or otherwise.
Military men are less clear for me. I believe soldiers joined and fought for myriad motivations. Like General Grant, I feel members of the C.S.A had a terrible cause and were on the wrong side of history and morality. That said, I cannot just make a carte blanche dismissal of their efforts. I think some curating is possible. And, some of these monuments can be offered to other venues that can offer context. It is time to end the implicit endorsement of the subject that may come from leaving a statue or monument in place. That’s why I like the idea of adding historical markers. I grew up in a northeastern town with a Civil War memorial. It had been constructed by local people who mourned the loss of life in their community. These sorts of monuments in the South should be left standing, IMO.
Finally, I hope communities will be moved to do their own curating; I am reluctant to make decrees about such things – even as I myself might vote to remove or add historical context. We have a moment to challenge the “Lost Cause” / “Gone w/the Wind” romanticism that has veiled what the Confederacy was really about. If that is successful, maybe some positive policy changes can follow.
Mandalay
@realbtl:
Or for something a bit more potent: “Black Lives Matter”. That project is already underway as graffiti, but putting it on brass plaques would be just fine.
Gimlet
How long before the Gadsden Flag replaces the Confederate Battle Flag as the icon of choice for Supremacists?
Librarian
@Fair Economist: why would anyone tear down the Brandenburg Gate? It was built in the late 18th century.
Eric U.
I am thinking that a lot of these statues were raised as an early expression of Cleek’s law, explicitly to express the fact that they weren’t giving up.
raven
@Gimlet: It was the flag of the People’s BiCentennial but NOBODY remembers that!
raven
July 4, 1976
raven
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/DONT-TREAD-ON-ME-1976-Peoples-Bicentennial-Comm-ORIGINAL-SCARCE-/201152073242?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ed5990e1a
“DON’T TREAD ON ME 1976 – People’s Bicentennial Comm. – ORIGINAL SCARCE
NOTE: Civil Rights, anti war, anti estabishment alternative to the official event.
SIZE: 1 3/4”
Betty Cracker
@raven: True. When I see it, I think — oh look, a tea party asshole.
Gimlet
@raven:
I did not remember that.
It’s now associated with the extreme right-wing of the GOP, the Tea Party. And that is a short hop away from the Supremacists.
the Conster
@Schlemazel:
I don’t think it’s a big mystery. How does it make you feel when you’re disrespected and slighted?
Aleta
I would hope the thought at least crossed the mind of Thomas or Minnie Edison.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Betty Cracker: In 2005 or so, I saw the bumper sticker “I love my country but fear my government”, and it occurred to me it could be one of them or one of us. Ten years ealier, not much doubt, now, none.
jl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
‘…apparently we do’ indeed. US White people in the South and elsewhere can do very bad things in the name of their idea of ‘their people’.
Graham seems to be having a little epiphany there. Maybe he will work discuss No True Scotsman next and make a little more progress.
Fair Economist
@satby: I’d be happy to see Bedford Forrest’s monuments gone too. Leaving some of the monuments up serves a purpose – reminding people that societies can get caught up in doing and being evil without any individuals clearly to blame. But really offensive monuments should go, and he is way up there for “offensive”.
PaulW
A statue of Florida Man and Florida Woman standing for everything crazy about this state.
Either that or Henry Flagler, Bringer of the Railroad.
Or a statue of Bugs Bunny sawing Florida off at the border. The kids will love it.
Gimlet
I think former Florida Gov. Clinton “Skink” Tyree should get a statue at the statehouse.
Origuy
Several of the cities of the former Soviet Bloc have collected the statues from the Communist era into parks like Budapest’s Memento Park and Moscow’s Fallen Monument Park.
Origuy
@PaulW: I would support a statue of Dave Barry or Carl Hiassen to represent Florida.
Betty Cracker
@PaulW & @Gimlet: Both fine ideas. But Mary McLeod Bethune gets my vote.
Fair Economist
@Librarian:
Well, it wasn’t built by the Nazis but it was built to commemorate earlier wars and conquests. The Nazis might well have been the worst, but they weren’t the only evil in German history and I found Berlin to be pretty good about making earlier German atrocities clear as well. It was a refreshing change from London where every public square seems to have an anodyne memorial to some horrific colonial war. And the Berlin way comes out a very good message – sort of “our ancestors did much wrong, but we are doing much better”.
realbtl
@Mandalay: @efgoldman: You miss the point. As far as the leaders, fuck them. But the generic soldiers, I think they deserve credit with the caveat that it was the wrong cause.
Just because the cause was wrong does not diminish their sacrifice. I think most of us would agree that Viet Nam was the wrong cause. Does not detract from remembering the dead with respect.
zeecube
Our mayor in New Orleans today announced his intention to remove the big ass (about 65 ft) statue of Gen. Robert E Lee next to the Confederate Museum, saying now’s the time. For the most part, locals not taking kindly to his suggestion, based on the comments (averaging about 400/hr.) in the local rag. At least this story removed Jindal’s announcement about something or another as lead story…
NotMax
As I mentioned in a much earlier thread, there are currently eight statues of Confederate men displayed by choice of their respective states in the U.S. Capitol.
JGabriel
Betty Cracker @ Top:
Maybe it’s just because I’m a Commie Northern Yankee, but I’m thinking: garbage dump.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
I’m fine with leaving plaques (suitably updated) and generic statues, old cannons, etc. Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee (and maybe Stonewall Jackson) are historically important enough to be left in place, again with suitably updated plaques.
But Forrest and other low-level assholes best known for resisting Reconstruction and terrorizing people? Fuck those guys. Melt them down and use the bronze for statues to their victims instead.
Mandalay
@realbtl:
I think you are completely missing the point, and that’s a pretty big caveat you’ve got there. They were traitors, fighting against the United States in the cause of slavery.
There is no reason to put them up on a pedestal. What about all the Americans who were killed by those traitors who you say “deserve credit”? How do you think they would feel about your position?
In general, any glorification and romanticising of the Civil War clouds the ugly reality.
NotMax
Consideration must be given to a tasteful statue of Mickey Mouse astride a space capsule, orbiting an orange tree.
raven
@Gimlet: It sort of petered out since the war was over by then and folks took different paths.
jl
@efgoldman: Raccoon riding an alligator. Gotta put up a statue of that.
Tripod
Maybe they should add plaques to commemorate those who fought and died so that others would be free.
There were plenty of southerners in the Union Army.
realbtl
@Mandalay: Shit I can’t put myself in the shoes of a Union soldier but from my reading they did not hate the individual rather the cause for which they were fighting. The cause was the issue.
And with that I’m done. I usually try and avoid these kind of discussions.
Tree With Water
“That noble soul [who] made this swamp inhabitable”.
I can almost hear the spirits of Seminoles long dead muttering amongst themselves, “Did you hear that? The gall of that cracker!”
I’m a sucker for historical markers, and think your idea of providing a context for those in existence is a really excellent one.
Robin G.
@Origuy: Hiassen. Dave Barry’s gone pretty batshit in recent years. His new middle-grade book was staggeringly racist.
Betty Cracker
@Robin G.: No shit? Sorry to hear that. He was tolerably funny back in the day but could never hold a candle to Hiassen, of course.
NotMax
A Confederate monument in front of one Virginia courthouse is inscribed “The Principles For Which They Fought Live Eternally.”
Regardless of whether that display should to be removed from its present location, the inscription needs to go elsewhere.
Many courthouses In Virgina showcase similar displays (such as this one) and are also listed on the National Historical Register of Historic Places. Perhaps that listing ought to be amended.
Keith G
@Mandalay:
realbt’s point is well supported. Many Northern opinion leaders and even veterans of that war were not as adamant as you seem to be and they were the ones dodging the Minie balls. They seemed to be of the opinion that, “We have to recognize what happened here and we need to move on.”
And move on they did. There was a nation to put back together, a frontier to fill in, and Native People to ethnically cleanse.
Ya see, history is complicated and those with a presumed righteous intent only make our study of it more complicated.
Gimlet
Katherine Harris with one arm on the shoulders of a smiling Jeb and the other arm on the shoulders of a smirking Dubya.
Aleta
Maybe the statues should be placed, or remain, at whatever local site is used for events on Confederate Memorial Day. Both the day and the statues are supposedly in remembrance only of those who fought in the Confederate Army, it seems? If the war reenactments or speeches or cannonfire on Confederate Memorial Day are held at a cemetery, or a reenactment field, put the statues in an avoidable section there, next to a nice podium and a flower bed. Donors and businesses could engrave their names on a tasteful bench plaque.
And maybe a nationwide collection could be taken up for Texas, where Confederate Heroes Day is celebrated on the same day as Martin Luther King’s birthday, on the third Monday in January. So they could afford to have two holidays.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Keith G:
There’s an interesting exhibition at the Autry museum called “The Civil War and the West” that points out that many Union Army heroes were also noted for their enthusiastic genocide of Native Americans, including, sadly, the sainted Sherman.
realbtl
@Keith G: Thanks, that made my point much better than I did.
Keith G
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Yup, indeed.
Aleta
@NotMax:
perhaps change to
“The Principles For Which They Fought Continue to Kill”
sharl
Apologies if already mentioned, but there is one Confederacy monument that is worth keeping around, for the laughs:
I hope commenter Southern Beale and other B-J Nashvillians will rush to the ramparts to defend this awesome work of public art and remembrance.
Aleta
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): and Custer
NotoriousJRT
I wonder how Terry McAulliffe is going to deal with Monument Avenue in Richmond? Arthur Ashe could not possibly be more lonely than he is today. I doubt he’d miss them if some of those sharing space with him now were suddenly elsewhere…
sharl
@sharl: Well, bummer – it would appear that Southern Beale is not gonna be supportive of the Save the Crazy-Ass Sculpture campaign.
maya
Sounds like a job for ISIS.
NotoriousJRT
@sharl:
I think this art is private. Therein lies Nashville’s problem.
sharl
@NotoriousJRT: Yep, but SoBeale linked to an article about a plan to plant trees and bushes on public space that would block the hilarihorrible statue from being seen from the interstate:
We’ll see if that initiative gains momentum.
Stacy
How about the Lee Jackson highway I drive down everyday in Northern VA. Time for that to go and every other road named for the traitors.
A guy
Let’s get ride of the jefferson memorial and the washington monument. They owned slaves
Keith G
@realbtl: I am a pure blood Yankee (Subfilum: Buckeye) who spent 23 years teaching history in the South. I have no problem calling out “The South” and certain types of southerners. I also know that many down here can have two complex thought process whirling around their noggins at the same time: Being disdainful of the choices made by their forebears and the devastating consequences thereof; while at the same time being intrigued by the very human struggles the earlier folks (wrong or right) faced during our nation’s toughest calamity.
dirge
Leave them as they are, but facing every statue of a Confederate general, erect a statue of General Grant or General Sherman, slightly larger, making an obscene gesture.
Cervantes
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
Soldier and sainted rarely go together. Sherman is no exception.
Omnes Omnibus
@A guy: You aren’t even trying, DougJ. Or is some new experiment in trolling?
Patricia Kayden
“But anyway, what should be the fate of Confederate war memorials and statues?”
Easy question. Take them all down. Place them on private property and not on public land. These are memorials and statues of slave holders and have no place in the public square which is shared by all races.
Cervantes
@Patricia Kayden:
This criterion might take you, also, right smack into the Jefferson Memorial and the Washington Monument.
Perhaps that is your intention, or do you mean to be more precise?
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
Just to bring up an interesting point: Wyman Park in Baltimore has a statue of Lee and Jackson on horseback at one end, and the Union Soldiers and Sailors monument on the other. I’d vote to keep them both.
heckblazer
@Bill Murray: Gatorade was invented by a team of researchers at the University of Florida lead by Dr. Robert Cade. Before it was introduced it was not unusual for a coupe of college football players to die of dehydration each year in the US.
EthylEster
There’s a Gorrie Elementary in Tampa. I went to Roosevelt Elementary and we shared a music teacher and an orchestra leader (Mr. Green) with them. But I never knew who it was named for. Thanks, BC.
Yes, once elementary schools in backward Florida offered orchestra to students.
My first exposure to classical music.
CDWard
All Confederate memorials should be utterly destroyed. Anything named after Confederate military or political officials should be renamed.
Gvg
Gatorade was a patented drink invented by UF and promoted by its football team. it earned royalty money for Uf for a long time and when I was first a UF student then a financial aid counselor there were funds from the royalties that went to need based grants every year. the financial aid guide to applying for aid each year is still titled Gatoraid tho I suspect current students don’t know the connection any more. I believe the patent has expired or isn’t directly controlled by the University anymore but it was. the result is naturally our rivals FSU refuse to use Gatoraid and use I think poweraid. football rivalries being what they are in this state with the University of Miami also having national championships and you won’t be able to get the votes to honor Gatoraid as a state accomplishment. Yes I know the suggestion was in jest but it’s the kind of thing local people know. I would have to think about who to honor and take my time. I have been sick of plantations all being saved no matter how unimportant they were just cause people have some sort of worship of rich semi aristocrats. I really would like to save some Underground Railroad station but they were secret at the time and I am not aware of any in Florida. Those are my idea of brave, like the WWII resistance brave. If you were caught….
Socraticsilence
Can we just skip 50 years ahead and put future Gov. Tim Tebow up now?
Tree With Water
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Sherman would be the first to scoff at any notion he was a saint. His wife, however, was a devout Catholic whose faith increased with age. There’s a story of them having bickered about it, with his wife saying that he was aware of her religious bent when they married, to which he replied, “Yes, but I didn’t know it grow so much worse”. Or words to that effect. He lost one son to disease after Vicksburg fell, and another to the Catholic priesthood years later. He led an extremely interesting life in a much different America, in a much rougher time by anyone’s measuring stick. In fact, he helped clear Florida of the Seminoles, that Betty Cracker might complain about its climate years later..
mclaren
Is there even one single public memorial to all the countless millions of slaves who suffered and died in chains in the deep South?
One?
I say, replace all the statues of traitors with statues of black children in chains screaming in agony while being thumbscrewed, with statues of pregnant black women getting whipped to death.
NotoriousJRT
@sharl:
TRMS quoted the owner of the monstrosity as saying he has “1800 foot flagpoles.” if they try to build a barrier. You just can’t overestimate the stupid and the stubborn in these folks.
nominus
I think it’s something that should be handled locally, one case at a time. It should be this way to serve as a reminder to the ultra-progressives: you can’t erase history. Let’s not go crazy trying to eradicate any mention of the war, or of the painful century and a half that followed it. You can’t do it without turning into the very Orwellian nightmare you fear. We have businesses making brave and overdue decisions, we have conservative politicians taking action I never would have predicted. Accept the victory and use it as a base to keep progressing. Those unrepentant racists who are squealing now aren’t going to be rehabilitated by taking more of their idols away, and trying to drop the Confederacy down the memory hole is just going to make them cling to their trinkets even more. Keep spreading the love and knowledge, we’ll figure out ways to beat them yet.
Gvg
I think their are some monuments in cemeries that probably should be left alone. Inscriptions may need amending.
I hate schools named after confederates. Turns out the school my father went to and last year my nephew is such. I hadn’t known in the 40 years I had heard its name as its a non famous name. good school rep for a publis school and most of the other local school are generally named for retired teacher school principles of 30 years so I had no idea jj Finely was a confederate soldier who became a Florida legislator. Not happy to find out. Generations have attended the school and have good memories of it but I don’t like confederate honoring. I have seen to much bad come of not objecting to whitewash.
fidelio
The fiberglass Forrest! I have felt, every since that hideous fiberglass offense against the world went up that it would make a great centerpiece for a miniature golf course. Access would be a problem, with the railroad on one side and the interstate on the other, but just think of the possibilities! There could even be a special prize for chipping one up into the face.
getsmartin
@mclaren: yes…. http://www.staugustinecatholicchurch-neworleans.org/hist-slave.htm
NotMax
@NotoriousJRT
1800 feet? That gets into obtaining FAA approval.
Cervantes
@mclaren:
Actually, there’s one on the grounds of the State House in South Carolina, and from it you can see the very flag that has been in the news lately.
Cervantes
@Gvg:
Is that elementary school in Gainesville?
Gvg
@Cervantes: @Cervantes: yes
sharl
@NotoriousJRT: Jeez…
I suppose that events may unfold in a way that at least provides cheap entertainment to the easily amused – like me! – even as it all shows how far we have to go before meeting any reasonable criteria for “civilized society”.
Le Sigh…
seaboogie
@geg6: Auction them all off to private collectors, and use the funds to put up MLK statues in their place – that seems right…plus it would generate jobs in the statue removal and placement biz…win/win/win!
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
@David Koch: I was just going to say the same. Most of the Civil War memorials are OK with me, even statues of Generals Lee, Longstreet, etc. but Nathan Bedford Forrest was an absolute monster and should be expunged from public spaces completely.
Nate
@nominus: “you can’t erase history. Let’s not go crazy trying to eradicate any mention of the war, or of the painful century and a half that followed it.”
Yeah, and that might be a problem if anyone, anywhere, were advocating for that.
Paul in KY
@Turgidson: I think you could ‘modify’ the Stone Mountain statues to be Gens. Sherman & Thomas, instead of Lee & Jackson.
Paul in KY
@Librarian: It was the symbol of Prussian militarism & that kind of militarism helped lead to 2 World Wars.
Paul in KY
@zeecube: This would probably be the statue of him in Lee Square. I have stayed at the Hotel Modern (located at square, nice hotel) twice & seen his traitorous countenance looking down on me. Hope it goes.
Paul in KY
@Gimlet: Holding a butterfly ballot too.
CzarChasm
In Richmond, removing the biggest monuments would be…tricky: They have a 1-mile stretch to deal with. With the exception of the Arthur Ashe memorial that was added 19 years ago, every single one of these stone thingamajigs honors someone that lost while they served the Confederacy…there’s even one to Maury, a seanaught! If they were removed, what would happen to the property values? (Most of the street also has some of the most expensive real estate in the city).
To make it trickier, Richmond is very nostalgic about its history. When I lived there, there used to be this joke:
How many Richmonders does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
Answer 1: None, they’re all too busy trying to save the old lightbulb.
Answer 2: Ten. One to screw the new one in, and nine to put the old one under glass and talk about how great it was.
If there does become a pogrom against Confederate shrines and iconography, I guarantee you this will be the last Big ‘Un to go.
(As an aside, it took me forever to edit this comment, as I had to keep changing the pronouns from “we” and “I” to “they”. You really never leave Richmond…)