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You are here: Home / Gun Issues / Gun nuts / Pope Francis on the Death Merchants

Pope Francis on the Death Merchants

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Hippie Pope tells it exactly like it is:

Pope Francis said Monday that “many powerful people don’t want peace because they live off war.” The Argentine pontiff made the hard-hitting comment in response to a question from one of the 7,000 children taking part in an audience held with the Peace Factory organisation. “This is serious,” Francis told the children. “Some powerful people make their living with the production of arms. It’s the industry of death.”

Wow — an actual Christian! How did this guy get through the papal conclave?

[H/T: Valued commenter Rikyrah]

Reader Interactions

77Comments

  3. 3.

    c u n d gulag

    “Wow — an actual Christian! How did this guy get through the papal conclave?”

    Maybe he was “Pope”-ular despite his libtard tendencies?

    *RIMSHOT!!!*

  4. 4.

    gelfling545

    I have been wondering if maybe enough people of power at the Vatican began to realize that the chances of the RC Church surviving as a major religion much past this generation were slim if they continued as they had been and went looking for someone who might improve those chances. Honestly, when an old communist like Raul Castro says he’s going to Mass change is in the air.

  5. 5.

    Arclite

    It is quite surprising how he’s walked the walk these past few years. Not religious at all, but glad that someone who influences billions of people is actually focusing on the more important parts of Christianity like poverty and peace, instead of abortion and teh geys.

  6. 6.

    boatboy_srq

    Shades of John Paul I. One wonders whether Francis’ suggestion that he might retire in a few years was recognition that Papal turnover is good, or simply self-preservation.

  8. 8.

    Tone in DC

    I am so fucking glad he said that.

    The kids deserve to hear the truth (yeah, we ALL do), and I figure they can handle it.
    Rock on, Francisco de la Argentina.

  10. 10.

    Betty Cracker

    @gelfling545: I honestly have no idea how it plays out in other countries, but I do know the increasing affiliation of the church hierarchy in the US with conservative politics was off-putting to many American Catholics I know.

    My husband’s family are all devout Catholics (except my husband, of course), and even the somewhat conservative members of that clan are enthusiastic about this pope, not necessarily because of remarks like the ones showcased above but because he seems more down-to-earth and less obsessed with social issues like abortion and gays.

  11. 11.

    jl

    Nice to hear that from him.

    I saw a news article that said Pope Francis has decided to ‘rehabilitate’ liberation theology, or parts of it at least. That would be good news too.

    I didn’t read it when I saw the headline, and can’t find it now. Anyone else see that item?

  12. 12.

    Librarian

    This is nothing new. Popes have been calling for peace and denouncing militarism for a long time . I believe Paul VI made a speech to the UN which said almost the same thing.

  15. 15.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    Shades of John Paul I

    @boatboy_srq: Indeed. Didn’t even make it forty days if I’m recalling correctly.

    Francis seems OK with women remaining second-class citizens. JP1 was not. That may be the difference in survival time here.

    At any rate, this is the least awful Pope in a while, and the followers of that persuasion seem to like him just fine, and that’s a good thing. Progress is progress.

  16. 16.

    scav

    Speaking of Wolf Hall, could we be about to see the establishment of a breakaway C of ‘Mercka over the sanctity of Gunz, Ghayz and Greed?

  17. 17.

    Brachiator

    Also, we have this:

    Cuban President Raul Castro has praised Pope Francis for brokering the restoration of relations between Cuba and the US, announced in December.

    So, is the pope a commie? And bashing weapons merchants. How will Rubio and the GOP deal with this?

  18. 18.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    How did this guy get through the papal conclave?

    Probably like Obummer, fake Birth Certificate.

  19. 19.

    trollhattan

    @CONGRATULATIONS!:
    Confess I get perverse pleasure from Konservative American Katholics who at this point are openly questioning the current pope’s doctrines. Not so infallible when you don’t agree with him, is he fellas?

  21. 21.

    Germy Shoemangler

    @Brachiator: And whatever happened to that delegation of climate change denialists who were sent to talk some sense into him?

  22. 22.

    gelfling545

    @Betty Cracker: My area (WNY) has been traditionally Catholic. I never even met a Protestant until I was in high school & he was Episcopalian so barely counts. Numbers are way down & parishes closing all over the place with a great many people in my generation (boomer) & younger feeling like they no longer wanted any part of the mess it had become. I think Benedict was a shot at trying to see if a traditional, doctrinaire approach would stop the losses & he only made things worse.

  23. 23.

    Elie

    Don’t wanna be inflammatory but I disagree with the notion that Pope John Paul was such a goody goody. Under his leadership, the right wing took control of the message of the catholic church, eschewed and in fact punished liberation theology and became corporate focused on maintaining wealth. Though the Pope who followed John Paul got stuck with a lot of the child abuse fall out, the cover up was well in place under John Paul.. it just didn’t stick to him. He’s was made into a saint a bit prematurely, in my opinion.

  29. 29.

    cokane

    there are still pedophile priests and conspirators that have evaded justice. why does anyone gives the pope a pass because he hurls nothing more than verbal stones at targets we like? im sick of francis praise

  30. 30.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    @Elie: Like everyone else, I gotta say “specify your Pope”. John Paul I was a liberal revolutionary and died – very mysteriously – after less than 2 months in office.

    John Paul II, who took office right after JP1, was a conservative asshole and held the papacy for over 30 years.

  31. 31.

    Chris

    @jeffreyw:
    @boatboy_srq:
    @satby:

    Back when he first became Pope, when I and a few others here were skeptical of his good faith and not sure about his reforms, the smartest comment I read here was “I think all his reforms are undertaken in the full knowledge that the last Pope who was seen as a reformer was found dead in his bed after a month.”

    In that light, he’s actually quite ballsy.

  36. 36.

    trollhattan

    @Chris:
    Agreed, and his long-game must surely include stacking the College of Cardinals with and eye to their appointing his successor, given JPII had shoved the dial all the way right (or so I’ve been told). In that way his direction on reform can outlive him.

  37. 37.

    Betty Cracker

    @cokane: Because he influences hundreds of millions of people and is a damn sight better than the dour old prick he replaced. Like it or not (and I don’t like it, for the record), the pope influences the world for believers and non-believers alike.

    @Omnes Omnibus: Ha! I like your answer better.

  38. 38.

    jl

    Here it is:

    Pope Francis Rehabilitates Liberation Theology

    “…Rev. Gustavo Gutierrez [regarded as one of founders of LT] will be one of the main speakers at a gathering of the Vatican’s charity arm, Caritas Internationalis, and will appear at an official Vatican press conference launching the assembly Tuesday. ”
    …
    ” The Caritas assembly will also touch on another issue dear to Francis’ heart: climate change and its impact on the most vulnerable. Cardinal Peter Turkson, who wrote an early draft of Francis’ eagerly awaited environment encyclical, is to give a presentation. ‘

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/pope-francis-liberation-theory-vatican

    Edit: this should be an interesting week in the RC Church.

  39. 39.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Elie: I suspect you refer to JPII, while the positive comments were describing the 1st John Paul (JPI) who had a very short term. He died before 90 days in. He was a liberal revolutionary, as mentioned. The two things may be connected.

    While I always wanted Pope Ringo, I’m now a big fan of Papa Francesco. Who is an honorary Harlem Globetrotter. Can anyone imagine Ratzinger even acknowledging the Globetrotters, much less interacting with them?

  40. 40.

    boatboy_srq

    @trollhattan: Doesn’t hurt all that much that so many reactionary Catholic voices are closely associated with the various child-abuse scandals…

  42. 42.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Francis is looking at such scum as General Dynamics, Halliburton, Smith&Wesson, and the other vile parasites.

  43. 43.

    Roy G.

    Not that I would ever ever go back, but I do love what Francis is doing. I think it’s especially great to smack down the Scalias and Douthats of the world who so loved to denigrate all the ‘Cafeteria Catholics’ and are now reduced to trying to marginalize Francis’ words by fisking them out to see if they are from the infallible pontiff or just his personal opinion. Good times.

  45. 45.

    BGK

    @trollhattan:

    They already have a ready answer for “infallibility,” which is grossly misunderstood by Catholics and non-Catholics alike. He’s only infallible when speaking ex cathedra on matters of faith. When he speaks on climate change, death-merchant-try, et cetera, they act like he’s (at best) a poor, old, deluded fool.

    I do think he’ll lead to an outright schism. I see it very much in my own parish. There’s the 27% (natch) who want the Tridentine Mass and all the magesterium, and they make all kinds of darkly warning noises. The rest love Papa Francesco to pieces. My guess is that Il Papa won’t outright encourage schism, but he’ll probably shrug and point out the doors are open and free for them to use.

  47. 47.

    Chris

    @Betty Cracker:

    Yeah, I’m right in that demographic. Quitting on the church was a slow burnout process, but yes, the complete acceptance by the American Church of its role as an arm of the Republican Party was a huge part of it, possibly the biggest. The Church’s stance on all issues related to gender and sex would always have bothered me and possibly been enough to drive me out all by themselves; but the constant refusal to follow their own doctrines on virtually ANYTHING else (environment, economics, immigration, prison, war) pretty much sealed the deal. Too many charlatans. (Their response to the health care debate alone was plenty).

    At this point, I’m just hoping any changes he makes in Rome eventually trickle down to the American Church.

  48. 48.

    trollhattan

    @BGK:
    Thank you for the background and perspective. Being raised Loot-trin I’ve always had this peeking-through-the-door knowledge of Catholicism.

  50. 50.

    trollhattan

    O/T but trying to tie in anyway, Holy Shit. As in Wyoming is literally trying to make cowshit holy. Or somehow protect it from hippies.

    The state wants to conceal the fact that many of its streams are contaminated by E. coli bacteria, strains of which can cause serious health problems, even death. A small organization called Western Watersheds Project has found the bacteria in a number of streams crossing federal land in concentrations that violate water quality standards under the federal Clean Water Act

    The new law is of breathtaking scope. It makes it a crime to “collect resource data” from any “open land,” meaning any land outside of a city or town, whether it’s federal, state, or privately owned. The statute defines the word collect as any method to “preserve information in any form,” including taking a “photograph” so long as the person gathering that information intends to submit it to a federal or state agency. In other words, if you discover an environmental disaster in Wyoming, even one that poses an imminent threat to public health, you’re obliged, according to this law, to keep it to yourself.

  51. 51.

    Betty Cracker

    @Roy G.: I’ve especially enjoyed reading the tortured rationales of Kathryn j. Lopez at NRO, who spent her entire pre-Francis career wagging her finger at any Catholic who criticized JPII and Ratzo’s social crusades and now desperately spins Francis’ clearly liberal statements.

  52. 52.

    jl

    @BGK: IIRC correctly the ex cathedra doctrine was only officially codified or explicitly explained, or defined, or whatever officially official thing the Church did to make it official, in the late 19th century. And, IIRC has been mostly used to make infallible pronouncements on very important Christian issues, such as the idea that Mary, mother of Jesus, was born without original sin. But, to the sex crazed reactionary wing of Christianity, those sorts of things are the very essence, and being right on such stuff is required to ensure purity of essence.

    IANAC (I am not a Catholic), but IAAP (I am a Presby), and am used to hearing arguments about arcane and inscrutable dogmas.

  54. 54.

    Fair Economist

    @jl:

    I saw a news article that said Pope Francis has decided to ‘rehabilitate’ liberation theology, or parts of it at least. That would be good news too.

    Papa Francis has been sympathetic to the liberation theology goals of a better life for the poor but always opposed to the mechanism of opposing or overthrowing the state. I’m not seeing a change. Render unto Caesar and all that.

    I’ve seen the liberation theology headline, but on a very thin article which provided no support whatsoever that Francis was advocating the political involvement part which distinguishes liberation theology from mainstream Catholic theology.

  55. 55.

    the Conster

    I can just picture Ratzy in his exile apartment fondling his Pradas and throwing curses written in Latin on silk scraps from his vestments out his windows.

  56. 56.

    cokane

    @Omnes Omnibus: legislative compromise and an ongoing criminal rape conspiracy are not in the same moral ballpark, but maybe that’s just my opinion.

  60. 60.

    Heliopause

    How did this guy get through the papal conclave?

    Here’s some more hippy crap from the Vatican:

    “I renew the appeal to pursue the path of rights, to strongly refuse the recourse to weapons and refuse to confront new situations with old systems.”

    “The truth of peace requires that all – whether those governments which openly or secretly possess nuclear arms, or those planning to acquire them – agree to change their course by clear and firm decisions, and strive for a progressive and concerted nuclear disarmament. The resources which would be saved could then be employed in projects of development capable of benefiting all their people, especially the poor.”

    “In this regard, one can only note with dismay the evidence of a continuing growth in military expenditure and the flourishing arms trade, while the political and juridic process established by the international community for promoting disarmament is bogged down in general indifference. How can there ever be a future of peace when investments are still made in the production of arms and in research aimed at developing new ones? It can only be hoped that the international community will find the wisdom and courage to take up once more, jointly and with renewed conviction, the process of disarmament, and thus concretely ensure the right to peace enjoyed by every individual and every people. ”

    Three guesses who said this.

  61. 61.

    Cervantes

    @Fair Economist:

    I’ve seen the liberation theology headline, but on a very thin article which provided no support whatsoever that Francis was advocating the political involvement part which distinguishes liberation theology from mainstream Catholic theology.

    TPM headlines are notorious.

    Did you see this Guardian article as well?

  64. 64.

    Mike in NC

    The Village Idiots will be aghast at the Pope’s comments about the Merchants of Death. No invitation to the White House post-2016 election, or to address a joint session of Congress after such a rude attack on the 1%ers.

  67. 67.

    WereBear

    @gelfling545: I think Benedict was a shot at trying to see if a traditional, doctrinaire approach would stop the losses & he only made things worse.

    This is such a universal approach when it comes to hidebound, inflexible, dogmatic, systems of oppression that are driving away the youngs.

    They all decide more oppression will be just the thing!

  68. 68.

    skyweaver

    Yeah, I guess. While he’s not quite the institutional asshole many of his predecessors have been, there’s also this:

    Pope Francis is reportedly planning to offer a special pardon of sins to women who have undergone abortions, along with the doctors and nurses who helped them with that choice.

    As part of his upcoming Holy Year of Mercy, the pontiff plans to send specially trained priests as “missionaries of mercy” to Catholic parishes around the world. The army of priests will reportedly hear these women’s confessions and absolve them of the “sin of a procured abortion,” the Irish Times reports. The forgiveness can also be given to healthcare workers who perform abortions.

    So fuck him.

  69. 69.

    Fair Economist

    @Cervantes:

    Did you see this Guardian article as well?

    No. That does support a rapprochment of sorts with the moderate liberation theologists. Very much on Papa Francis’ terms, though.

  70. 70.

    Fair Economist

    @skyweaver:

    Pope Francis is reportedly planning to offer a special pardon of sins to women who have undergone abortions, along with the doctors and nurses who helped them with that choice.

    So fuck him.

    If you hate everybody in the world who ever thinks you did something wrong you’ll be pretty lonely.

  72. 72.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @skyweaver:

    Since the previous two Popes’ reaction to abortion was to excommunicate providers, offering them absolution instead is actually a step forward, even if it’s not as far forward as you would prefer.

  73. 73.

    Chris

    @Fair Economist:

    Papa Francis has been sympathetic to the liberation theology goals of a better life for the poor but always opposed to the mechanism of opposing or overthrowing the state. I’m not seeing a change. Render unto Caesar and all that.

    To be fair, the idea that we must improve society but through reform not revolution is pretty standard liberal/reformist stuff. I suppose it depends how broadly you define “opposing.”

  74. 74.

    Tree With Water

    “Wow — an actual Christian! How did this guy get through the papal conclave”?

    I’ve long held that Jesus Christ must have had the greatest sense of humor ever- maybe that explains it.

  76. 76.

    Rich (In Name Only) in Reno

    “Wow — an actual Christian! How did this guy get through the papal conclave?”

    Anyone out there ever see a 1969 movie called “Putney Swope”?

  77. 77.

    skyweaver

    Last night was the end of a long day so I thought I’d expand on why I reacted to the article like I did.

    I give the new pope props on being a pretty good role model in many areas. He thinks that people who are poor should be treated like actual people. He clearly thinks that gay people are also actual people and has done blessedly little in terms of preaching about or down to homosexuals, though he does drop the occasional institutional lines about marriage/man/woman. But considering his predecessors you clearly get the sense he just wants to focus on helping people who need it. People who are damaged, people who are terribly sad and lonely, people who just want someone, anyone, to tell them they matter.

    He believes that actually treating suffering is the whole reason for his office. Time and time again he has done compassionate things that are actually quite lovely to watch. I actually like the guy. There aren’t a lot of spiritual leaders alive right now who actually DO the thing they talk about.

    But then I read things like his terribly patronizing stance against women who have had an abortion and it gets me terribly frustrated that once again women are the go-to party for blame in many ways. The previously-lovely ideas about poverty, for example, are nowhere to be found in the article about how he’s going to “forgive” these women. Women often get abortions because they are terribly poor and the idea of bringing a baby into this world with almost-nothing to actually care for it is a terrifying prospect.

    This was the source of my frustration last night when I read it.

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