Seriously, Collared Dove? (Open Thread)

Despite all my rage, this (flying) rat still wants to be in a cage:

dumb dove 1

Yep, that’s the self-same collared dove I rescued this morning from its two-day confinement in my chicken coop. I recognize the spots on its wing and an odd tuft of feathers on its back.

This morning, that dove cost me precious workday time as I attempted to free it, including time spent jumping around in the coop waving my arms and then rummaging through the shed to find a long-handled net to make my shooing actions more effective.

Plus it cost me nearly a whole head of lettuce, which was required to lure the hens back into their coop once I finally got the stupid dove out.

And now it is strolling around the coop, cooing disconsolately like it misses its chicken friends and wants back in. I give up. If it goes back in when the chickens are having their evening free-range time, it’s on its own. Stupid dove!

What are you up to this evening? Any troublesome animals in your life?

176 replies
  1. 1
    Baud says:

    If you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it was, and always will be yours. If it never returns, it was never yours to begin with.

  2. 2
    boatboy_srq says:

    One rabbit with a taste for strawberry and raspberry bushes. The garden is getting shredded almost before it has a chance to sprout. Upside: rabbit is entertainment for the (housebound) cat, who watches constantly.

  3. 3
    Arm The Homeless says:

    It could have been a python. Just sayin’

    Any Atlanta area Juicers up for an informal meetup? Last week of May. I was thinking Brickstore.

  4. 4
    raven says:

    @Arm The Homeless: That’s the place we stopped at on the Battle of Atlanta tour I took last year.

  5. 5
    Aleta says:

    Food supply, height, protected from predators. If she can just get the chickens to leave, a perfect piece of real estate. Smarter than the a-ver-age dove.

  6. 6
    jl says:

    One could humanely slaughter the dove, cook it up, and serve it as ‘street squab’. I mean, if it wants to be in a coop, why not give it the whole cooped animal experience?

  7. 7
    kindness says:

    Maybe the dove just likes the easy chicken feed. Cracked corn….mmmmm, yummy to doves.

  8. 8
  9. 9
    Arm The Homeless says:

    @raven: It’s my own little pilgrimage when I am in Atlanta. Their pierogies are phenomenal and the beer selection is comprehensive.

  10. 10
    raven says:

    @Aleta: Hey Boo Booooooo. . . .

  11. 11
    raven says:

    @Arm The Homeless: Keep me posted. I’m way over in Athens and rarely venture into the city.

  12. 12
    PsiFighter37 says:

    Will be happy to get to this weekend and get out of town for a little bit. Had two piece of bad news…a) my best friend from college (the one who I’ve mentioned has been having some mental issues here and there) got pissed I called his home and basically gave me a death threat via text, and b) a really good couple (both sides being good friends of my wife and myself) basically ended their engagement. Made the weekend feel very much NOT like a weekend, with a lot of stress on the personal side. Will be going for a quick Florida trip (plus a stop at Harry Potter World, which was my wife’s request) and cannot wait to just lie on the beach and mentally de-stress.

  13. 13
    trollhattan says:

    Most years we have mourning doves nest outside our bedroom window, which I’ve come to look forward to and enjoy. But they’ve never moved in afterwards.

  14. 14
    Amir Khalid says:

    I’ve found just the campaign song for Mike Huckabee.

  15. 15

    Time to start researching recipes for squab.

  16. 16
    Amir Khalid says:

    But there’s that “getting the chickens to leave” part. That’s going to be a bit tricky.

  17. 17
    Arm The Homeless says:

    @raven: I think it would be a good time. I think any night besides Fridays would be doable.

    Do we have any Hotlanta denizens?

  18. 18
    trollhattan says:

    That’s the coolest thing since…ever.

  19. 19

    Troublesome animals? How about Iggy? (An obsessed schnauzer can be very troublesome indeed.)

  20. 20

    @Arm The Homeless: Memorial Day week? I have a photography class Tuesday night, otherwise I’m free.

  21. 21
    Aleta says:

    @Amir Khalid:
    She seems to have Betty pretty rattled. Yeah, she’s a cool operator.

  22. 22
    jl says:

    Been some hoo-haw about how awful Wisconsin is now to poor people. I do not doubt that the GOPers running the place are trying to be bad. But I wonder if WI is getting a bad rap from the WI WIC allowed and non-allowed foods brochure that I saw a couple of places on the internet today.I think many of the funny restrictions are mandated in federal law.

    But the WI WIC rules do seem very peculiar to me.
    Below is link to Wisconsin WIC allowed foods brochure (pdf file)

    Below is link to California WIC allowed foods brochure (pdf file)

    California program has a flyer splashed around that any kind of fresh white ‘taters are allowed now. Woo-hoo! Not sure about Wisconsin.

    I myself see several very odd things in the Wisconsin flyer. Odd package size restrictions. And strange exceptions to any restrictions based on sane healthy eating rules for big ag corporate foods, that are also very expensive per unit of nutrition. See the breakfast cereal section.

    I’d be interested in opinion of any body who knows stuff about WIC and what Wisconsin is doing here.

  23. 23
    Betty Cracker says:

    @raven: My sis brought me Sponge Bob nesting dolls from Moscow. The ones you linked are WAY cooler….

  24. 24
    markconrad says:

    if it isnt a pigeon, thats in its favor. altho wild birds carry diseases that could pass to the chickies.

    speaking of whats bugging me, the neighbors rooster crows all night long, and that SOB is LOUD! also the little chiks come through the cyclone fence and root around in our yard. And there are stray cats that will walk in the damn door if you leave it open. And most of the neighbors let their dogs run loose.

    enuff said?

  25. 25
    jl says:


    I found the WI WIC foods brochure at Wonkette
    Wisconsin Takes Lead In F*ck The Poors Sweepstakes: Now You Can’t Buy Beans And Rice
    by Kaili Joy Gray
    May 05

  26. 26
    raven says:

    @Karen in GA: No, Memorial Day weekend is early this year.

  27. 27
    BGinCHI says:

    A dove who is also a chicken….

    Barry Obummer, amirite?

    /Tom Cotton Standup Rehearsal, take 1

  28. 28
    skerry says:

    Just killed a spider that, according to my teenager, was about to attack/murder her in the bathroom.

  29. 29
    sharl says:

    Heh, learn something every day. When I saw “collared dove”, I assumed it was a bird adorned with some radio-transmitting bling, compliments of a wildlife biologist. But it’s an actual species, different from the mourning doves I grew up with.

    That Wikipedia entry says the collared dove entered Florida by 1982, probably from the Bahamas, where it was introduced in the 70s. This bit from that site might explain its behavior, and perhaps offers some concern that your chicken coop will become popular with this bird’s chums:

    The collared dove is not wary and often feeds very close to human habitation, including visiting bird tables; the largest populations are typically found around farms where spilt grain is frequent around grain stores or where livestock are fed. It is a gregarious species and sizeable winter flocks will form where there are food supplies such as grain (its main food) as well as seeds, shoots and insects. Flocks most commonly number between ten and fifty, but flocks of up to ten thousand have been recorded.

    It’s considered an invasive species, which sounds a lot like illegal alien to me. Betty, you should ask Florida’s potential Presidential candidates Marco Rubio and JEB! what their policy is on this uninvited species.

  30. 30
    FortGeek says:

    I’m basking in temporary smugness, having formulated a theory of Republicans/conservatives/wingnuts as post-WW2 cargo cultists.

    –they really thought all they needed to replace Obama in 2012 (and follow up in 2016) is just find a black guy, just as the cultists build “planes” and “radios” hoping to bring the GI’s and their amazing cargo back to the islands.

    –they really thought all they needed in 2008 was Palin to attract Clinton voters away from Obama. Just as the islanders looked at a radio and only saw a box that some guy talked to (and it talked back!!), all the goppers see is the outside, not any of the stuff that makes HRC vastly superior to the Snowbilly or Carly the HP Killer.

    Gonna drink a Mello Yello, now. Earned it.

  31. 31

    Pan Roasted Squab with Fig and Red Wine Reduction Sauce

    Or just let her hang out. Maybe you’ll have dove eggs along with your chicken eggs. And I’m silently chuckling because this sounds so much like a day in my life. LOL.

  32. 32
    chopper says:

    ♩ ♪ doin’ the pigeon every day…. ♪ ♫

  33. 33
    pat says:

    Are you sure that’s not a Mourning Dove? I think Collared Doves are European… And I don’t see a collar. Just a thought…..

  34. 34

    @raven: Talking about the week of Memorial Day, which is indeed the last full week of May.

  35. 35

    @efgoldman: Best of luck to your kid — I’ll definitely watch! Although recording to watch later is always an option. (Don’t hit!)

  36. 36
    Aleta says:

    @Karen in GA: Did you buy the hammered dulcimer ?

  37. 37
    raven says:

    @Karen in GA: Memorial Day weekend is the 23-25th. I sort of know when it is.

  38. 38
    trollhattan says:

    I think you’re right. Here’s another nesting mourning dove in our tree, showing the same markings.

  39. 39
    Tree With Water says:

    Did you ever read Cold Mountain? Well, there’s a scene early on in which a character is startled when a rooster has its neck snapped in the blink of an eye….

  40. 40

    @raven: I’m sure you do. I’m just pointing out that Arm the Homeless asked about “the last week of May,” which, as you know, is when Memorial Day is this year.

  41. 41

    @Aleta: Non-hammered, actually. Mountain dulcimer. Heading up to Blairsville this Sunday to check it out and, if all is well, buy it.

    I like the sound if the hammered dulcimer too, but there’s a limit to how many poorly-played instruments I’m going to take on.

  42. 42
    Pogonip says:

    Well, my dad’s out of the hospital and I’m home so everybody’s happy. Including the dove.

    Where’s Geg6 and how are the dogs doing?

  43. 43
    Beatrice says:

    I know we are hard on Floridians here in Balloon Juiceland, so here is a really nice story that reflects well on the fans of Tampa Bay: As the O’s played a “home” series down in Florida, Rays fans showed their love.

  44. 44
    Monkeyfister says:

    Squabs is good eats. Not much on ’em, but tasty. That is all I have to say on that.

  45. 45
    Greg Neise says:

    That’s a Mourning Dove, not a Eurasian Collared-Dove.

  46. 46
    Ruviana says:

    @jl: Got no links and don’t know details but I see similar WIC restrictions here in NY State–strange sizes of cereal, one kind of peanut butter but not (often a cheaper one) another, things like that. I always sigh when I wind up behind a WIC shopper (we have many in my upstate rust-belt town) because often the manager has to take over and many things have to be exchanged and substituted even though the shopper tries to do her (always) best.

  47. 47
    shell says:

    Maybe this is what happened to the Passenger Pigeon (extinct)

  48. 48
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Tree With Water: I did, and I spent considerable time as a child hiding out once my father similarly dispatched chickens so I wouldn’t have to pluck the feathers. My hens are strictly for eggs and company, though. They are pets with names and everything so will never be served with dumplings.

  49. 49
    boatboy_srq says:

    @jl: Some of that looks like brand lobbying: notice that Kellogg’s, General Mills, Post, Quaker, Juicy Juice and some others figure prominently. Some of it may be perceived as safety-related (notice the fixation on plastic bottles v. glass).

    But there’s a lot of poor-shaming going on as well (tomato sauce but no “pasta sauce” or pasta or spices, no meat besides selected canned tuna, no brown eggs, no organic anything, etc), and nearly nothing diabetic-supportive (notice the prohibitions on artificial sweeteners and gluten-free product). Reading between the lines, there’s no way to do any cuisine except some variant of Modern Bland: there are bits and pieces of things here and there but not enough to make any single thing interesting. It’s better than workhouse gruel, but not by much.

    The cheese constraints may be driven by the state dairy lobby; conversely the potato prohibition could well be spite toward the big potato producing states.

    Notice also that nearly everything besides baby food, bread and cereals requires preparation: any microwave-ready or ready-to-eat options are (so to speak) off the table; if they intend to make recipients’ lives miserable by keeping them in the kitchen when not at work, this is definitely one way to do it.

    I suspect the portion sizing is an attempt to keep Those People from either stocking up or burning their entire WIC allowance on certain items, but I can’t be sure – and if so, banning any (presumably) non-fattening foods would be counterproductive if the goal were anything besides “see how fat Those People are getting on our assistance dollars”.

  50. 50
    Amir Khalid says:

    There’s cargo-cult logic in everything they do. Three years ago, I mentioned in these threads that Paul Ryan was practising a cargo-cult approximation of economic wonkery.

  51. 51
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    Troublesome animals in my life?

    Ants! ANTS!!!!

    They’re everywhere. Or at least it feels that way. Big black ants. Tiny black ants. I opened my dishwasher and there were a bunch of them crawling around in there. I’m running it now just to piss them off.

    I sprayed the kitchen. I sprayed downstairs.


  52. 52
    SFAW says:


    One could humanely slaughter the dove, cook it up, and serve it as ‘street squab’. I mean, if it wants to be in a coop, why not give it the whole cooped animal experience?

    As is the case with turtles (especially one-eyed ones), “there’s some good eating on those.”

  53. 53
    shell says:

    @Betty Cracker: When they’re past their egg-laying potential, do they go to the Old Chicken’s Home?

  54. 54
    cckids says:

    My daughter was maybe 10-11. We took her and a friend to Plimoth Plantation (for those not of the New England persuasion, a reasonably accurate portrayal, including the spoken language, of the 1620s colony.) As we’re walking down the street, we pass a seated woman with a duck in her lap – *just* as she twisted and snapped its neck.

    Oy. When my daughter was in kindergarten, I went with her class on a field trip to a huge pig operation north of Vegas. It was interesting & full of fun facts (they get over 5 tons of waste food a week from the Strip hotels); but I’m pretty sure the woman running the trip didn’t understand 5-year old city kids well.

    As they were petting/holding the baby pigs, she asked the group “Who here likes bacon or ham? Well, these piggies will grow up to be that bacon!” Tears & gags ensued. I’m sure some vegetarians were born that day.

    Also, in the petting area was a huge Texas longhorn, named Bobby. When asked if it was a boy or a girl, she answered “Bobby isn’t either one. Do any of you know what a steer is & how it gets that way?” The teacher waved her off that one, thankfully, though the other class mom & I were snickering & wondering just how she was going to continue that little lesson.

  55. 55
    Aleta says:

    @Karen in GA: Oh, right. I was watching this and then I thought yesterday was Sunday, and then confusion took over the country.

  56. 56
    SFAW says:


    You’re busy Wednesday night. My kid is on Jeopardy.

    Outstanding! May 27, yes?

  57. 57
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    You could let the dove stay, and call her Stupid.

  58. 58
    trollhattan says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    Nearby friends got the “chicken bug” (not to be confused with avian flu) and put in a coop last year, starting with four chicks. One turned out to be a rooster and went to live elsewhere–an actual, not proverbial farm in the country–as city rules only allow hens. If you visit their yard and hold out an arm, you will end up with a chicken on it. Who knew a. chickens could jump and 2. they’re such amusing critters. Messy as hell, though.

  59. 59
    SFAW says:


    a reasonably accurate portrayal, including the spoken language, of the 1620s colony

    They even get them to say “I pahked my cah in Hahvahd Yahd” as it was originally spake at Plimoth.

  60. 60
  61. 61
    Han says:

    @jl: It’s not about allowed/not allowed. It’s about WIC (Women, Infants, Children) rules being applied to all forms of food assistance, which is ridiculous as WIC has a very specific purpose, hence the restrictions. They’re also trying to add a bunch of other restrictions that make no sense.

  62. 62
    trollhattan says:

    @Germy Shoemangler: Sounds like an episode of “Sprockets.”

  63. 63
    cckids says:

    The only troublesome animals in my life belong to my neighbors; we moved into this nice apartment complex last summer & like it, but WTF people?? Pick up the goddam dog shit before I go postal on your ass.

    Its nobody’s favorite job, but Jesus H. Christ on a cracker, did you not realize when you got a big dog (or two), that what goes in also comes out?? Really tired of the land mines. And it is ALWAYS from a big dog.

  64. 64
    Beatrice says:

    @Germy Shoemangler: Find the ant highways and clean the area with white vinegar. It confuses their ant trail markings. It may take a few applications.

  65. 65
    WereBear says:

    New post on my new blog:

    The part where everything I was told was wrong

    where I freely rant about feminism, modern medicine, cutting edge science, and the gaps and intersections thereof.

  66. 66

    @jl: @boatboy_srq:
    I think some of the difference with WIC is that it’s explicitly a nutrition program. The goal is to make sure that women who are pregnant or nursing and young children are getting not just food but food that is going to meet their specific nutritional needs. To make sure they’re getting a healthy diet, they’re given a set of coupons for specific kinds of foods that are supposed to combine to give a healthy diet rather than something like an EBT card that can be used to buy whatever they want. Because they get a coupon good for, say, a container of juice rather than money to buy juice, the rules have to spell out what size they can get. Because it’s a nutrition program, there are rules to make sure they’re getting juice rather than juice drinks that are bulked out with sugar (or artificial sweetener) water. I assume that some of the rules against prepared foods are both nutritional and budgetary.

  67. 67
    InternetDragons says:

    Methinks that is a Mourning Dove (native to Florida). You do have Collared Doves in Florida too, unfortunately – they are an invasive species that doesn’t belong there and messes up the natural ecosystem. Anyway, your little trespasser looks like a Mourning Dove to me.

  68. 68


    When they’re past their egg-laying potential, do they go to the Old Chicken’s Home?

    Hens never completely stop laying; they just slow down to the point they aren’t commercially viable anymore. For a backyard chicken that’s treated like a pet, that isn’t such a concern. At least that’s how my sister treats hers.

  69. 69
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Germy Shoemangler: See here.

    @shell: They’ll continue to be pets. We’ll just pension them off with a daily ration of grain. It’s the least we can do for critters that passed the chicken-scale equivalent of a watermelon each day for our dining pleasure.

  70. 70
    cckids says:

    @Roger Moore:

    To make sure they’re getting a healthy diet, they’re given a set of coupons for specific kinds of foods that are supposed to combine to give a healthy diet rather than something like an EBT card that can be used to buy whatever they want.

    This. I used WIC when I was pregnant with my daughter; the rules (in Nebraska) were detailed but pretty easy to follow, most grocery stores had “WIC approved” hang tags on the shelves by the correct items. One of the hardest things to navigate was sliced cheese; it had to be real cheese, not “cheese product”, which though preferable, was hard to find sometimes. Back then, they leaned heavily on the rice & beans; grains, fruits & veggies.

    ETA: WIC was a complete lifesaver, too; 1 week after I found out I was pregnant, my spouse was in an accident & spent 3 weeks in the hospital followed by 3 months out of work & 3 months only able to work part-time. I was able to work, so we kept our house, but the food aid made all the difference in the world.

  71. 71
    boatboy_srq says:

    @Roger Moore: That does help somewhat, and explains some of the deficiencies. Combined with TANF and EBT that could make for some decent meals. But it still leaves out any dietary requirements beyond the default, and it still reeks of poor-shaming – especially with so many healthier-than-the-base-option foods explicitly excluded.

  72. 72
    jl says:

    @Roger Moore: True, But I was wondering about the differences between the California and Wisconsin rules. Wisconsin seems harder on cheese. How can that be? And if nutrition is the biggest consideration, look at some of the prepared breakfast cereals allowed in Wisconsin. And why does Wisconsin say you have to buy all your beans and some other foods in one pound bags? You can buy in bulk in California. And I see no white ‘tater flyer for Wisconsin.I guess all white ‘taters, fresh or otherwise, are still out in Wisconsin.

  73. 73
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Arm The Homeless: Sounds good. Count me in (not the 21st, but any other night should work).

  74. 74
    burnspbesq says:

    Any troublesome animals in your life?

    Do spouses count?

  75. 75
    WereBear says:

    @jl: When I got some “government commodities” it came with a flyer that had recipies to make meals with the contents — all well and good.

    But it called for having a baking dish, a cheese grater, a measuring cup; lots of things I had, being temporarily financially short, but something I would not have had when I first got my own apartment.

    I think WIC and food stamps have a similar bias. Tomato sauce, but no pasta sauce? And who is staying home to make that sauce? Who has a big pot to make it in?

    It’s not in tune with what people really need.

  76. 76
    Betty Cracker says:

    @InternetDragons & @pat: Y’all may be right.

    @burnspbesq: Yes!

  77. 77
    Shana says:

    @skerry: You have one of those too? We call it bug trauma at our house. She’s been known to call me from college wanting to know what to do. Sheesh.

  78. 78
    boatboy_srq says:

    @FortGeek: The GOTea has been all pageantry and no substance since 1994 at the latest. Naturally they’d assume that the exterior was the deciding factor (“Hey, the Dems have HRC; we need a woman on the ticket who’s sexier than that”; “Hey, the Dems have BHO; we need at least one Blah candidate”). It also explains why Carson – otherwise a presumably-intelligent/educated person – jumped on the wingnut bandwagon with such force, and why Jindal is careering so far to the right: cray-cray talking points are what the GOTea base have come to expect, and coming from a Not-One-Of-Us candidate makes both the candidate less unacceptable and the veneer over the rank platform more obvious to those of us on the outside.

  79. 79
    FortGeek says:

    @Amir Khalid: They seem to have only gotten worse since then. When they fail in 2016, maybe they’ll switch over to grass and bamboo effigies.

  80. 80
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @raven: Those are amazing! Thanks.

    @ Betty at top: Did I mention my view that doves are pigeons putting on airs, except not as clever? In answer to your question, I’m still fundraising for Mental Health Awareness Month.
    I’ve set up the Team Bella Q page for the May 9 NAMI SW Ohio walk. It’s a good cause, and I hope people can help support it, to the extent budgets permit. Donations can be made both anonymously and without an amount displayed. The team message is:

    Team Bella Q includes people from all over the internet and the 3D world, each of whom cares about someone who lives with a medical illness known as mental illness.
    NAMI offers all its programs at no cost to the participants. Team Bella Q hopes you will join us to raise money for NAMI Southwest OH. Donating is easy, fast, secure, and may be done anonymously.

    You may join the team without a donation, and you can do so with your nym from here! Full disclosure: NAMI will require an email address, and will send you emails, but you can unsubscribe from their list pretty easily. In addition, I will not have access to your email address, as NAMI does not disclose them to team captains, though I will thank you through the site from the form there. Thank you to all members of the Juicetariat who’ve already donated.

  81. 81
    Tree With Water says:

    @Betty Cracker: I believe that’s pretty much why Paul and Linda Macca became veggers. It clicked for them when they sat down to a leg of lamb dinner as their pet sheep ran around outside. It’s a good way to be. I despise cruelty to animals, or their suffering. And I like cows, who doesn’t? But prime rib medium rare is also my favorite meal, and god knows how many chickens I’ve wolfed down in my life. Sorry guys.. burp.

  82. 82

    I am five days into a 10-day visit with my sick brother and my mother is officially driving me up the fucking wall. Still to come, a 3-1/2 hour car ride to Orlando … each way. At least I get on a plane back home after the return.

  83. 83
    FortGeek says:

    @boatboy_srq: It’s a pity we can’t find them an island where they can unleash their craziness without damaging us any further. They could even have Limbaugh live three hours a day.

  84. 84
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Tree With Water: I read about that back in the day. I’ve been a vegetarian for years at a time but can’t seem to sustain it as a permanent lifestyle. But I won’t eat chickens I personally know.

    @Mnemosyne (tablet): Take a deep breath! Take a long walk, and see if you can find a burrowing owl nesting place — the hissy little bastards might make you laugh. And know you’re doing a great thing at whatever cost in annoyance and tedium.

  85. 85
    WereBear says:

    @FortGeek: Antarctica has plenty of room.

  86. 86
    sara says:

    Where’s the collar? seriously.

  87. 87
    FortGeek says:

    @WereBear: And we can tell them it’s Alaska! I like it.

  88. 88
    raven says:

    @WereBear: My wife works with the WIC program and SNAP. WIC food is much more tightly controlled than food stamps.

  89. 89
    WereBear says:

    @Mnemosyne (tablet): That’s tough. As rowdy and weird as my family can be, we usually have fun together.

  90. 90
    Betty Cracker says:

    @sara: I was wrong; it’s a mourning dove. They look very much alike, and I assumed wrongly because we have lots of collared doves hereabouts…

  91. 91
    WereBear says:

    @raven: I believe WIC is geared towards good sources of nutrition, and I’m all for that.

  92. 92
    Shana says:

    @FortGeek: Absolutely right. I heard someone on Morning Joke today, I think it may have been Michael Steele, saying that Carly would be a draw for women voters and nullify the Hillary factor. “Look, we got one too!”

  93. 93
    WereBear says:

    @Shana: If only the American public would let us run an “openly brainy” candidate.

    That would stump their copy-cat ways.

  94. 94
    Tenar Darell says:

    @Mnemosyne (tablet): I am familiar with this emotion. I send you all the extra patience and deep breaths that I’ve got. (Oh, and I hope your niece has straightened up and stopped trying to scam your mother out of money).

  95. 95
  96. 96
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    It’s my own fault for turning on the Tweety show. He had a segment featuring Cokie Roberts and Fournier protegee Nedra Pickler to discuss Hillary and Benghazi. If only Tweety knew how comically appropriate it is to have the source of “it doesn’t matter if its true or not, it’s out there”. First time I’ve seen Cokie on TeeVee in years, and I quickly shut it off.

    @Shana: Tweety introduced the Benghazi review with a clip of Fiorina declaring that HRC “wasn’t truthful” about Benghazi, thus proving the Roberts Rule is still in effect.

  97. 97
    Gravenstone says:


    Do any of you know what a steer is & how it gets that way?” The teacher waved her off that one, thankfully, though the other class mom & I were snickering & wondering just how she was going to continue that little lesson.

    When we were kids, my stepdad would occasionally let my sister and I pick a calf each from that year’s group. Once that calf matured and went to market, we would then get that money put into our savings accounts. My sister picked this beautiful little Guernsey. When the time came to neuter them, it apparently jumped and the clamp slipped, resulting in a vein being severed and it bled to death. My sister was devastated, but that was how we learned how steers were made.

  98. 98

    @Betty Cracker:

    Did I mention driving to multiple CVS stores to try and find chocolate Ensure Plus because it was on sale? And having to explain multiple times why I use a fancy sunscreen that she’s never heard of on my acne-prone face instead of the store brands that break me out? And the complaints that they don’t have any good Chinese restaurants in Naples?

    I know she’s stressed. We’re all stressed. But there was not. a. single. break. for, like, five hours.

  99. 99
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @FortGeek: Gonna drink a Mello Yello, now. Earned it.

    Quite. Right-ly.

  100. 100
    Hal says:


    Absolutely right. I heard someone on Morning Joke today, I think it may have been Michael Steele, saying that Carly would be a draw for women voters and nullify the Hillary factor. “Look, we got one too!”

    Is there anyone at all even remotely interested in Fiorina as President? I just can’t figure out why she is running. I thought maybe for a VP slot, but that seems unlikely. Perhaps a position in a Republican administration? Looking at her Wiki page she seems to mostly be a member of various boards, so perhaps she’s looking for another adviser type job. Otherwise perhaps it’s just ego. I’m actually surprised she isn’t making another go for CA Senator now that Boxer is retiring.

  101. 101

    @Tree With Water:
    Interesting, because my sister has gone the opposite way. She became a vegetarian when she was in junior high, and started raising chickens (and later milking goats) when she got the chance as an adult. After raising animals for a while, she started to wonder about what to do with the surplus males. You have to breed goats before they can give milk, and buying only hens only hides the problem of what to do with all the roosters who are useless for egg production. She’s decided that if she wants to eat milk and eggs, it’s OK to eat the surplus males that come about as a byproduct of raising animals for their other products.

    Hearing about this also gave me a different take on the rules in Leviticus that specify male animals as sacrifices. I’ve heard people complain about this as sexist because it’s supposed to show that God prefers the males. Now I can see the other side of it. They weren’t sacrificing males because they were more valuable to God; they were sacrificing them because they were useless to people who were raising dairy animals.

  102. 102
    Howard Beale IV says:

    I just came up with an extremely wicked editorial cartoon idea should Bill O’Reilly get caught in his usual embellishment/lie routine again. Since I’m not an artist, I’ll be willing to commission such a work. But I’ll have to wait until such a time that BillO goes off the deep end before I spring it.

  103. 103

    @Tenar Darell:

    I’m trying to breathe. Today was a particularly tough day because my brother had radiation and chemo in the same session and it freaked my mom out, and her instinctive reaction is to pick until the other person gets annoyed. Even my brother was like, Will you please let up on Mnemo?

  104. 104
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Hal: somebody on the Hayes show last night suggested that she’s building up her base for another Senate run, which I’ll grant you (or whoever that was) is less delusional than thinking she could credibly be a presidential candidate. I get the same vibe from her as from Rudi 9/11 or Newton Leroy, whatever other reasons there may be, she craves being taken seriously as a national figure, even craves simply getting attention.

  105. 105


    Is there anyone at all even remotely interested in Fiorina as President?

    Carly Fiorina. SATSQ.

  106. 106
    jl says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    ” she’s building up her base for another Senate run, ”

    She must be thinking of moving out of California, then.

  107. 107
    raven says:

    @WereBear: Right.

  108. 108
    FortGeek says:

    @Shana: Democrats better get some Cubans together to run against Cruz and Rubio, then…though from what I understand either of the Castro brothers from Texas could be a pretty damn good pick for the Dems at some point.

  109. 109
    Cervantes says:

    @Roger Moore:

    Similarly: “Women and children first.”

    One can confect an evolutionary argument. I suspect, however, that the maxim is more often honored in the breach; as is the notion that captains (and crews) save passengers first even if it means they themselves “go down with the ship.”

  110. 110
    Howard Beale IV says:

    Quite frankly, I’m glad the GOP Gran Turismo is loading up so quickly (C’mon folks, at least with a race car there’s gonna be accidents!) that it’s gonna suck some cash from the squillionares and the less intelligent of the populace who will still cause a drain on our healthcare system. The question is who can be ratfucked to be the GOP standard bearer going into the general?

  111. 111
    Howard Beale IV says:

    @efgoldman: Naah-it’s gotta be as loud as when he went apeshit over the Mother Jones assertion/debacle.

    But trust me-the result will be the definition of schadenfreude or dilemma.

  112. 112
    boatboy_srq says:

    @efgoldman: I never said it was a good idea; just that it seems to be their idea.

  113. 113
    shell says:

    Rented ‘Interstellar’ last night. Save your money. When the best thing that people say about a movie is ‘Great special effects!’ you know you’ve got a problem. And almost 3 hours of Matthew McConaughey being as lively as a talking tree…ugh. His mumbling in those car commercials were better understood.

  114. 114
    Tommy says:

    @shell: How about it. Huge Sci-fy guy here. I had stayed away from spoliers and all revved up to rent the movie the other day. Giddy about it in fact. It totally sucked. What a let down.

  115. 115
    Mike J says:

    @Howard Beale IV:

    But trust me-the result will be the definition of schadenfreude or dilemma.


    Chrïs @WhiteRhinoTea · 7h 7 hours ago

    When UKIP fail miserably remember Schadenfreude is a German word doing a job no English word wants to do.

  116. 116
    MomSense says:


    Grrrrrr. eeeeee ooooooo (knee back, knee forward).

    Damn now it’s back. I’m even picturing Bert’s funny little dance.

  117. 117
    MomSense says:

    @Mnemosyne (tablet):

    Sending you a big hug.

  118. 118
    MomSense says:


    Finally! We almost hit 60 today. The mud is finally firming up, too. Some of my plants are poking through the ground but the garden/yard is still a big mess. Hopefully the weather will stay nice and I can rake and clean up the yard this weekend.

  119. 119
    Tenar Darell says:

    @Mnemosyne (tablet): (((virtual hugs))) (I’m sure you’ve thought of this or something like it already, but sometimes it’s nice to have someone else confirm your ideas). Is there something she likes to do, or drink, or eat that you can get her and then give her “alone time” so you can get some alone time? Because, it sounds like you’re doing fine in a difficult situation but your mother is stressing the eff out. /smile

  120. 120
    MomSense says:


    Have you seen Whiplash? Such a great film and I can see why J.K. Simmons won an Oscar.

  121. 121
    Stan of the Sawgrass says:

    Sorry, late to the thread. It’s about the damn collared eurasian doves in Florida, which are an invasive species, I think. I really don’t like ’em: they crowd out all the cardinals and finches at the bird feeders, and even steal from the outside cat’s food bowl. Two summers ago, I was standing under one of our trees and suddenly saw blood dripping onto the driveway. Looking up, there was a small snowstorm of feathers as a red-tailed hawk filleted one of the many collared doves. The doves were easy to catch, and a lot of them probably got et while the pair of hawks were nesting. Can’t say I’ve missed the doves, but the hawks moved on.

  122. 122
    Tommy says:

    @Mnemosyne (tablet): Hope well for your brother. My mom was in the ICU last year for almost two months. My brother, my father, and I forced to spend a lot of time together. We love each other greatly, but we’re all forces of will. Us together for an extended time is like the universe is breaking up. I think that is family for many of us!

  123. 123

    There’s a reason they call it “bird brain.”

  124. 124
    Keith G says:


    I’d be interested in opinion of any body who knows stuff about WIC and what Wisconsin is doing here.

    (I was about to type a more complete answer, then a quick scroll showed that boatboy did a good job)

    I will reiterate for emphasis: These programs were allowed to be created in the first place by showing a lot o love to various agricultural commodity producers. This was not an act of humane consideration. If these programs were not licking the bottom sides of important and specific agricultural interests, they would have been curb-stomped a long time ago.

    That is how exceptional we really are. Literally.

  125. 125
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @Tommy: I had the same reaction when I saw “Prometheus” (Stared at the screen for two hours without connecting with the story, or characters or anything)

    When it was over, I wished I’d never bothered seeing it.

  126. 126
    MazeDancer says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Mourning Doves are ground feeders. They are good birdy friends of mine,I love watching them. And thought your pic looked very Mourning Dove, especially with the no black band of collar. Yours is a big one, though.

    They will go anywhere there is food on the ground. They also will not dig for food. Unless they can see it, they won’t eat it. So if there is visible food, they’ll head there.

    So the secret is spread food on the ground outside the coop. Waaaay outside the coop. Your friend the Mourning Dove will stay there.

    And yes, the theory is they mate for life. So the raucous sidekick was, indeed, the mate. They also travel in flocks. Though I have seen single Mourning Doves, which make me think that’s how they got their name.

    Anyway, they are placid, calming bird to watch. And make a lovely, haunting, almost owl like sound.

  127. 127
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    Thanks to everyone for the ANTS! replies. I could relate to the McSweeney’s letter. There’s no reasoning with them. The white vinegar trick is a good idea. It smells better than the vile “citrusy” ant spray I’ve been using. And I didn’t remember Dieter until after I made the comments.

    I am one of those people who believe Dieter should have gotten his own movie.

    I haven’t seen any ants in a few hours. But I fear they’ll be back. They’re in the walls waiting.

  128. 128
    Tommy says:

    @Stan of the Sawgrass: Are Doves bad? I have this pair that nests every year outside the window of the bathroom off my home office. Like clock work.

    The little ones learn to fly from my deck after walking around. I kind of like my Doves.

  129. 129
    Cervantes says:

    @Southern Beale:

    There’s a reason they call it “bird brain.”

    And that reason may be ignorance. Birds’ brains differ greatly from ours and, as a result, there is much about them that we still do not understand. Corvidae, for example, have shown themselves to be as intelligent as primates in some ways.

    But that’s a low bar, you may say, and who could disagree?

  130. 130
    Cervantes says:


    They got the name because of the way they sound.

  131. 131
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    They’re black ants. I’ve seen many tiny ones. A few big ones.

    I’ll have to consult teh google to see if they’re carpenter ants. Do they wear toolbelts? I tend to Catastrophize so now I’m imagining the entire house collapsing around my ears in a pile of sawdust.

  132. 132
    scav says:

    @Cervantes: But aren’t there days where the Jackdaws and Crows option doesn’t seem the better one than the H.s.s. primate platter at least?

  133. 133
    Keith G says:

    @Stan of the Sawgrass:

    the damn collared eurasian doves in Florida, which are an invasive species…a red-tailed hawk filleted one of the many collared doves….

    In my urban environment, the increase of those doves over the last decade or so is so very noticeable. And lately, the Red Tailed Hawks have taken notice. It has now become very common on a daily basis to see these hawks patrolling the canopy of oak trees that make central Houston so green.

  134. 134
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @Cervantes: Birds have been seen using tools. (I was taught in grade school that Man is the only tool-using animal). The complexity of their nests is awe-inspiring. And crows recognize human faces.

    And birdsong is so complex, with regional accents.

  135. 135
    Iowa Old Lady says:

    @Cervantes: Really? That’s very cool.

  136. 136
    Germy Shoemangler says:


    Birds’ brains differ greatly from ours and, as a result, there is much about them that we still do not understand.

    There is that whole business of finding their way around by using the earth’s magnetic fields. That’s quite a superpower.

  137. 137
    Tommy says:

    @Iowa Old Lady: Ravens or Black Birds called where I live, are really smart. They have been shown to use tools. Stuff that will blow your mind a bird is doing it.

  138. 138
    WereBear says:

    @Germy Shoemangler: The last words of the famous Alex, the African Grey who worked with a university professor until his untimely death, was “I love you.”

  139. 139
    farmette says:

    Well, we have a mama raccoon who gave birth under our back deck in a spot we can’t reach unless we pry apart the deck. We’re thinking we’ll wait until the kits are able to move about on their own and then shoo them and mom out with ammonia scented rags and round the clock radio music. Don’t want to hurt them, just want them gone. She got in by digging out the dirt along the wood frame (it’s a low deck). Has anyone had a similar experience with raccoons? Any advice? I love raccoons, just not living quite so close.

  140. 140
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @WereBear: I remember many years ago I was in a pet shop, looking at some tropical fish. Right behind me I heard a woman’s voice, very sexy-sounding, say “Well, hello!”

    I turned around and came face to face with a parrot.

  141. 141
    Howard Beale IV says:

    @Mike J: Let’s just say that whoever will accept the remuneration to do my cartoon will probably want hazard pay as it will involve some unnatural acts.

  142. 142
  143. 143


    And yes, the theory is they mate for life.

    Certainly rock doves (aka domestic pigeons) do, which helps breeders of fancy varieties. Couples they want to breed only have to be kept isolated for long enough to pair bond, after which they can be kept together in a flock without having to worry about undesired crosses. In The Origin of Species, Darwin mentions choosing to do breeding studies on for exactly this reason.

  144. 144
    Howard Beale IV says:

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    I turned around and came face to face with a parrot.

    Parrots don’t hold a candle to this bird.

  145. 145

    @Tenar Darell:

    Her favorite thing to do is sit at home watching TV with her cats, who are currently 1,000 miles away. She derives a lot of comfort from being in familiar surroundings, which is one of the reasons she’s so cranky right now.

    It was the crack about my weight that really got my goat. Apparently only fat people want to eat more than once a day, at least until she decides she’s hungry. (And though it’s probably not worth saying, I am not completely happy with my current weight, but by BMI I barely qualify as “overweight.”)

  146. 146
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    The heath hen disappeared for good in 1932.

  147. 147
    WereBear says:

    @Mnemosyne (tablet): Travel is tough on anyone, but the non-flexible suffer the most.

  148. 148
    farmette says:


    Thanks much! Mothballs will be easier to handle and disperse. I’ll try that when the kits are walking. We don’t think there is any way she can claw her way into the house but you never know.

  149. 149
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @Howard Beale IV: Amazing talent for mimicry. Something sad though, when you think of it, about a bird imitating the chainsaws that are slowly approaching and cutting down his trees.

    That’s like me joking about the ants that plan to destroy my house.

  150. 150

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    Birds have been seen using tools.

    Not just using, but also some more complicated tool behaviors. New Caledonian Crows have been seen deliberately constructing tools for specific applications, and also (IIRC) storing favorite tools for later use. In lab tests, they’ve also done very complex behaviors like using tool that’s too short for the task they’re trying to accomplish to fish out a longer one. They can do this right by planning, rather than trial and error.

  151. 151
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @Roger Moore: And their language is complex. Crows have different calls, depending on what’s going on. They warn each other of danger.

    Bird brain should be a complement.

  152. 152
    Peale says:

    @jl: certain ethnic groups eat more rice and beans than others. Just saying. But seriously, banning buying in bulk? White rice as a luxury good?

  153. 153
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @efgoldman: I’ll kill every last one of those goddamn ants, if it’s the last thing I do.

  154. 154


    My brother is pressuring her to stay longer, which is understandable (not to be too glib about it, but he wants his mommy right now) but she doesn’t want to do it, so I’m getting some of the blowback. She is a very inflexible person because of her life experiences, but it makes her kind of a pain to deal with in a crisis.

    It is helping to be able to vent and I’ll be able to deal with her more cheerfully tomorrow. I just need to try and avoid driving to strange locations while trying to follow GPS directions that involve multiple u-turns with her in the car.

  155. 155
    Mike in NC says:

    @Germy Shoemangler: ‘Interstellar’ and ‘Promethius’ were both terrible. Enough to keep me out of theaters for a very long time.

    On topic: this time of year we get plagued by fire ant nests and burrowing voles making a mess of the lawn.

  156. 156
    WereBear says:

    @Mnemosyne (tablet): I just need to try and avoid driving to strange locations while trying to follow GPS directions that involve multiple u-turns with her in the car.

    Oh, lawzy! I just had a touch of trauma reading about it.

  157. 157
    Shana says:

    @Mnemosyne (tablet): God knows we’re here to let people vent. Sometimes you also get good suggestions, or stories that make it easier to deal, or at least laugh at others’ stories. Deep breaths, dear, and vent away.

  158. 158

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    The African gray in a pet shop I used to go to liked to wait for the employees to go to the back of the store and then imitate the phone so they would have to run back up to the front. It also liked to meow to the rescue puppies and drive them bonkers trying to figure out where the cat was.

    This rec originally came from commenter lamh36, but the Tom Cruise flick “Edge of Tomorrow” (aka “Live Die Repeat”) is surprisingly satisfying, even if you don’t like Tom Cruise. For non-Cruise fans (of which I am one), it helps that he starts off as a smarmy jerk and gets tortured by the plot for the next 90 minutes or so.

  159. 159
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Mike in NC:

    this time of year we get plagued by fire ant nests and burrowing voles making a mess of the lawn.

    Would you prefer blood, frogs, lice, flies, murrain, boils, hail, locusts, darkness, and/or death of the firstborn?

  160. 160
    Pogonip says:

    @Germy Shoemangler: I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords.

  161. 161
    Mike in NC says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Don’t get me started on the damn tree frogs. Neon green little monsters smaller than your thumb that make a deafening uproar.

  162. 162
    Howard Beale IV says:

    @Mnemosyne (tablet): My co-worker relocated his mother-in-law up to his place-turns out she had a significant arterial blockage that they stented her yesterday-explains a whole lot of things, but at the same time it has caused a whole raft of other issues both physically and mentally.

  163. 163
    Howard Beale IV says:


    certain ethnic groups eat more rice and beans than others. Just saying

    This also applies to certain religious groups as well.

  164. 164
    catclub says:

    @trollhattan: Any familiarity with the pigeons in “A Short History of a Small Place”?

    Very funny.

  165. 165
    SFAW says:


    She must be thinking of moving out of California, then.

    Not only that, but she’s been calling Scott Brown for advice, trying to duplicate his success.

  166. 166
    Tenar Darell says:

    @Mnemosyne (tablet): I have a desperate stratagem! Find a local cat café, and drop her off for some “her time” with a tablet and her favorite tv shows queued up.

  167. 167
    donnah says:

    About being driven crazy by animals: our older dog, who is nearly fourteen, is now terrified of thunderstorms. They’ve never bothered her before, but now the rumbling of thunder and flashing of lightning sends her into uncontrollable shivers. She slinks out of the living room and tries to hde in the bathroom or bedroom.

    We bought a “Thunder Shirt” from the pet store, which is a jersey designed to wrap snugly with Velcro and provide her with a sense of being held in a comforting hug. It calmed her a bit, but she is still terrified.

    Last night I sat with her as a storm front came through between midnight and two am. I can’t imagine doing this all summer. We get lots of storms.

    I tried closing the blinds and front door and put the TV on as a distraction, but nothing worked. She’s pretty old to be taking tranquilizers.

    Any thoughts?

  168. 168
    Bill Arnold says:


    Birds’ brains differ greatly from ours and, as a result, there is much about them that we still do not understand.

    I worked with several neuroscientists for a couple of years about 12-13 years ago. They speculated a lot, on whiteboards behind closed doors, about neural correlates of consciousness, it being death to careers (at the time) to do so in public.
    Their opinion was that there were enough isomorphisms between mammal and bird brains that bird brains were probably architecturally capable of consciousness.

  169. 169
    Bill Arnold says:


    Is there anyone at all even remotely interested in Fiorina as President?

    Yes. My favorite local wingnut likes her as a candidate.
    He also has a bet with me (for a nickel, at even odds!!!) that Hillary will select Michelle Obama as her running mate, then that Hillary will have a “health event” after the election.

  170. 170
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Bill Arnold: Okay, two things… You have a favorite local wingnut? And WTF with the “health event?” Should you be teasing the mentally ill?

  171. 171
    Glidwrith says:

    @Roger Moore: I once read in a Sharon Green book that certain snobby ladies being rude to the main character shouldn’t be so proud of their virginity. She pointed out the reason virgins get sacrificed isn’t because they are pure, but because they are not proven breeders and therefore the least valuable to their society.

  172. 172
    Glidwrith says:

    @Tommy: I once watched a video of a crow filmed in Russia using a can top to sled down a snowy roof. When he hit a dry patch, he’d bounce a few times to get to the next bit of snow.

  173. 173
    Cervantes says:

    @Bill Arnold:

    Their opinion was that there were enough isomorphisms between mammal and bird brains that bird brains were probably architecturally capable of consciousness.

    “Consciousness” is a big can of fierce and unruly worms, neurological, psychological, and philosophical. Not knowing who your neuroscientists were, I’ll tell you instead about a symposium on The Emergence of Consciousness in Animal and Human Behavior that took place less than two years ago. One participant summed it up thus:

    [Most of us] approached consciousness by evaluating capacities in animals that we associate with consciousness, such as mirror self recognition, time travel, insight learning, empathy and perspective-taking, [emphasis mine] and so on. So, instead of trying to demonstrate consciousness per se, we were looking for circumstantial evidence assuming that, if certain capacities engage consciousnesses in humans, then they probably also do in other species. We reviewed evidence from invertebrates and fish to birds and mammals, truly across the spectrum.

    One participant in particular, Nicola Clayton, a psychologist and zoologist at Cambridge, has done a lot of work on Corvidae, showing, for example, that these birds are capable of tasks that human children do not master until they are 4-7 years old.

    In one 2007 study, Clayton’s group showed that jays, for example, can spend time today planning tomorrow’s breakfast — a task I need to tackle now before heading off to bed. If only I had a bird-brain!

  174. 174
    FortGeek says:

    @Mike in NC: Late to this, but I had one of those little bastages move into my window air conditioner for the summer.

    Seemed like every time I tried to sleep, he’d know it and start singing for the girls, “GRAK! GRAK! GRAK! GRAK!” Nothing I did, including pouring lemon juice on him, would get him to leave. He’d just stare at me from inside the A/C box, a little red-eyed badass daring me to come closer.

    Named him Scott, for the won’t-go-away governor here in Florida.

    Fixed the problem the next season by putting carpenter’s mesh inside the air conditioner’s cabinet.

  175. 175
    Josie says:

    @donnah: My big dog Teddi, now passed on, was like that. As she aged and became crippled in her hind legs, it caused no end of problems. She would head for the bathroom or kitchen (both with tile floors). Then she would not be able to get up because of her bad back legs and slippery floor. She weighed 140 pounds and was super difficult to raise. My solution was to leave a closet door open (carpeted), so that she could hide in there until the storm passed. She was so large that her back end stuck out of the closet, but she didn’t care as long as her front end was completely hidden.

  176. 176
    brantl says:

    Sew up the damned hole, then get it the hell out of there.

Comments are closed.