So Israeli Prime Minister Binjamin Netanyahu wants the US to scrap negotiations with Iran over Iran’s attempt to get nuclear weapons.
Let us set the wayback machine to 2002…
I think we all know how well that worked out for the USA and the region. Do we really want to expend more blood and treasure on this man’s recommendation?
And while we’re on the subject of US national security and Israel…
Jonathan Pollard was a spy for Israel. He stole US secrets and sold them to the Israeli government. Which government then passed some if not all of those secrets to the Soviet Union for the purpose of securing the release of Soviet Refuseniks to emigrate to Israel. And that’s not just alleged in the Wikipedia link. It’s something that was stated to me by two retired career senior US Intelligence personnel. It’s also something that was verified by the Mitrokhin Archive.
And then there’s Israel murdering US military personnel in international waters during the USS Liberty incident. They killed 34 US personnel, and wounded 171, and we won’t even get into the value of the ship itself.
ISRAEL IS NOT OUR FRIEND. They are, from time to time, an ally, but one we should see in the same light as they clearly see us, which is to say that they should be courted and supported when it is useful to US purposes to do so, and not when doing something else would be more advantageous. Remember what that friend of Israel, Henry Kissinger said, “America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests.”
I speak only for myself. None of the other Front Pagers, nor John are responsible for what I post.
Brendan in Charlotte
From your keyboard to FSMs ears Soonergrunt.
larrybob
Hear Hear!!
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
Great to read you Soonergrunt. The whole 51st state thing has gotten very old for some of us. And Bibi’s guarantee of 2002 was worthy of Bill Kristol.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Sweet Jeebus, in a sane country we’d never have to hear from BiBi again after that quote about Saddam. It’s goddam national shame the way the Iraq War has become a vague unpleasant thing that just kind of happened.
Chris
Well, he was clearly just an antisemite.
/AIPAC
Belafon
“America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests.”
There’s a lot of truth in that statement, but like everything else, it’s when we lie to ourselves about what our interest are that get us in big trouble.
Mathguy
You’re absolutely right. We somehow think Israel is a friend, but the only thing Israel is concerned about is Israel. We always seem to forget that.
Politically Lost
I can hear the collective freakout over this post that’s revving up.
Just want to get in early and say it’s time for the US to begin to mature its relationship with Israel.
Taking Israel out of our guaranteed iron embrace of love and “support” and requesting that they respect us in the morning would be a good start. If that respect is not forthcoming, foreign aide to Israel should be reduced to a level where it would be very difficult to fund another foot of wall, or another massive incursion into their neighbors.
Chris
@Mathguy:
Though if people want to play the “friend” card, Bibi isn’t thinking about Israel anymore than Bush was thinking about America in the 2000s; his own Mossad’s been contradicting him for months.
Bubblegum Tate
@Chris:
Damn antisemitic Mossad.
But seriously, yeah, our relationship with Israel is ridiculous.
Gian
I caught a little of him today. the whole speech sounded like “you’re big and tough, let’s you and him fight.” to me
barbequebob
@Politically Lost:
amen to that.
I would like to see US aid to Israel conditioned on removing the illegal settlements and making peace with Palestine.
I am tired of US supporting the Israeli theft of land and crimes against Palestine
Helen
Confused I am. Why is Bibi testifying in front of Congress like CRIMINALS do? I thought he was going into the chamber on the dais Like when the FAKE president gives the state of the union.
Helen
@Helen: Oh wait – he did both?
Mike J
The Jewish Daily Forward with Eleven Lies Bibi told Congress
GregB
I found out that Netanyahu is Hebrew for shitheel. True, I looked it up.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
Wait – I thought Bibi announced that Israel is all growed up and can take care of itself now. I haz a confuzed.
Cervantes
@Soonergrunt:
As with most of Henry’s dicta, this one, too, was stolen — in this case from a bygone British statesman.
Plus it’s inaccurate, possibly even deliberately so. The goals of American foreign policy are rarely discussed honestly in public by those who formulate it. In real terms, “America” has no interests. Various constituencies within it do — and it’s not difficult to see which of these constituencies routinely triumph over the others, nor is it difficult to see how.
Mike in NC
Time to end Israel’s status as the 51st state. Cut them loose and put an end to the $6B+ in welfare they get from the U.S. taxpayer every year.
David Koch
Israel sold arms to Iran and Ayatollah Khomeini
Mandalay
He may have said that, but he was stealing the line from Disraeli, who stole it from Lord Palmerston.
If we can’t get Kissinger tried for war crimes maybe the International Criminal Court can nab him for plagiarism.
Mike J
@David Koch: So did St Reagan, but you won’t see National Airport getting its rightful name back any time soon.
Helen
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
THIS. Bibi is so full of shit it is coming our of his ears.
J.D. Rhoades
@Mathguy:
Every country is only concerned with its own interests. A mature country would realize that. Sadly, we’re still adolescents in the area of international relations.
Chris
@David Koch:
The background to this is that the Iran-Iraq War was going on and that while America was still red hot furious over the embassy crisis and the fall of the Shah, Israel was far more concerned with Iraq. Arab Nationalism, not islamism, had been Israel’s main enemy up to that point, and Iraq was the most powerfully armed of the Arab states – not to mention being much closer to Israel than Iran geographically. So they were, to put it mildly, queasy at the thought of Iraq winning the war and being left in a dominant position.
Israel almost certainly knew that the “moderate faction” line of bullshit was just a line of bullshit, and only sold it to us to help convince us to get on board. Far more important was getting the weapons to Iran… and trying to keep up relations with Iran as an ally against Arab Nationalist regimes like Saddam’s.
Betty Cracker
I saw some clips of Netanyahu’s speech. Jaysus, what a histrionic performance. All the pants-pissing hysteria over a third-rate shithole. But our congresscritters were even more embarrassing, squeeing over Netanyahu like tweens at a Bieber concert. Absolutely shameful.
If there’s any justice at all, Netanyahu & Co. will pay a heavy price for exchanging the US-Israel relationship for a GOP-Likud alliance. The fanatical devotion to Israel never made sense, and this would be a great time for US politicians on both sides to reevaluate it. But I won’t hold my breath.
Morzer
@Betty Cracker:
Sounds like any Sarah Palin speech you care to name.
Redshift
@Chris: Sure. Netanyahu (along with his Republican enablers) is openly claiming that he represents what’s best for America better than our elected head of government; there’s no reason why the administration shouldn’t play the same card, and forcefully.
JordanRules
Always love when Sooner chimes in.
I feel way more empowered than say 10 years ago, to express sentiments and disapproval about our dysfunctional relationship with Israel and how effed up many of their policies are and how it’s endangering us. That’s a good thing although I know it’s still a long hard slog before we can remove that anti-semitic knee-jerk from any criticism. And I can certainly understand using this meeting in front of Congress (it’s anti-Democrat, anti-Obama bullshit as usual) as proof we haven’t evolved on this issue at all. But at the end of the day, I feel like the fear of even expressing these things is diminishing. That will help turn it around eventually….I hope.
Mandalay
@Chris:
Shame on Israel for doing that. The Reagan Administration must have been both horrified and disgusted that our closest ally would dream of supplying arms to Iran…
Bubblegum Tate
@Mandalay:
By law, his name must be spoken as though you are an angry Barney Gumble.
Chris
@Betty Cracker:
I admit, my opinion of Likud & co is still much higher than my opinion of their American groupies – there’s no other topic in politics that makes me ashamed of my countrymen like this one does.
This isn’t something limited to Israel – if I’d been born a generation earlier, I’d have said much the same thing about the NORAID crowd. Namely, that I have less contempt for IRA bombers than I do for their American groupies raising funds to finance the death and destruction from the safety of Boston and Chicago, all because of a clueless romanticized tie to a country most of them had never even been to.
But good God, even the IRA groupies at their worst were never loud enough to drown out all opposition and seize control of foreign policy to the degree that AIPAC has.
Morzer
@Mandalay:
That’s such a Contra-rian perspective.
NotMax
Iran has been pronounced as being a year (or less) away from having nuclear weapons for what, 20 years now?
Interesting how the major dictates of the head of state there are accorded gravitas internationally, except for the official fatwa against Iran developing or having nuclear weapons.
Chris
@Mandalay:
I’ll say this for them, I can completely understand why they did it – especially since I think history has been kind to their impression that between Saddam and Khomeini, Saddam was definitely the more aggressive and dangerous of the two (from pretty much anyone’s POV, not just Israel’s). And I’m inclined to say “well played” for the way they suckered us into going along with it.
However, the lesson to learn from the American POV is don’t get suckered.
Morzer
@NotMax:
Well, from an apocalyptic point of view, the only time that matters is the end time, so the number of Friedman units required to get there is infinitely fungible.
MikeBoyScout
Netanyahu is an opportunist who only gives a sh*t about himself.
He’ll sell out the interests of Israelis at the drop of a hat to stroke his ego.
And furthermore, how big of an asshat is someone who hitches his wagon to the John Boehner GOP clown car?
Elie
Our history with Israel has been checkered and not at all as co-dependent as it has been in recent years. Good analysis of that relationship over time and implications for now in this very interesting piece. I learned a lot about the ups and downs of our relationship with Israel and its relationship with various allies.
Ruckus
@Helen:
That’s not the only orifice. It pours out of the big one in the middle of his face. But then he is a neocon, just from a different country.
This is what gets me, he is the leader of a different country with interests and goals that really should be far different than ours and gets treated far better than our own president by members of our own congress.
Betty Cracker
@NotMax: Perhaps we should start referring to these temporal anomalies as a “Netanyahu Unit.”
Chris
@Ruckus:
If it makes you feel any better, I’m pretty sure his own legislature treats him with far less respect than ours do.
Nutella
In everything you said up above, Sooner, you’re speaking for me, too.
Ruckus
@Chris:
It does not.
Morzer
@Betty Cracker:
Maybe it should be a “bibit”. Like the cubit, only more paranoid.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cervantes: Palmerston, yes?
patrick II
The best insight Netanyahu’s motives that I have read was written by James Fallows in two posts. The first The Mystery of the Netanyahu Disaster, and a Possible Explanation in which Fallows postulates the real motive for Netanyahu is the isolation of Iran from the international community and forced regime change, much like he encouraged us to do to Saddam Hussein back in 2002. Once burned, we should not be twice foolish.
The second post The Central Question: Is It 1938? in which he discusses Bibi’s insistence that Iran is Hitler and Obama is Chamberlain.
There are other good posts there too. When Fallows gets going, he is as insightful as any commenter I know.
Cliff in NH
@NotMax: Since 1979 actually, yahoo saying it since 1992.
Imminent Iran nuclear threat? A timeline of warnings since 1979.
and the republican were in on it then as well.
Tree With Water
I wonder if the Israeli people comprehend the mortal insult to our nation occasioned by Netanyahu’s remarks. Speaking as their friend, I sincerely hope they do.
themann1086
@Betty Cracker: the standing ovations made me honestly uncomfortable. It’s weird enough to have minute long standing ovations to our own elected leaders, but to do it for a different head of state… I may lose it the next time some right winger talks about how much more patriotic conservatives are. Fuck that noise.
Mike J
@themann1086: I’m old enough to remember when people used to say that politics ends at the water’s edge. Everybody over ten years old is.
Mandalay
Debbie Wasserman Schultz wants us all to maintain a non-partisan perspective over Netanyahu’s speech. As a sign of my respect for her, these are the lists of Democrats who attended or missed Netanyahu’s speech:
– True patriots who refused to bow before a foreign warmongering lying nutcase who is spitting in the face of our great president
– Gutless scumbag traitorous maggots who guzzled AIPAC cock while knifing our great president in the back
Mike J
While we’re on the topic of Israel, let’s not forget how the Republicans feel about actual Jews. A Republican who was running for gov in Missouri was driven to suicide by a whispering campaign that he was actually one of G*d’s chosen people for whom Republicans claim they would do anything in the world.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/danforth-in-eulogy-decries-whispering-campaign-against-schweich/article_6d81a9c8-0d79-5a1e-9210-9515777afd0f.html
Violet
How is it that we give so much money and support to Israel yet they tell us what to do? How does that work?
Omnes Omnibus
@Mandalay: A bit Manichean isn’t it?
Cervantes
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yes, in a speech to the Commons, in 1848:
At the time one could openly equate Britain and England, as again later in the same speech:
Anyhow, I find him … confusing.
And, it would appear, vice versa.
burnspbesq
@Mike J:
The Jewish Daily Forward with Eleven Lies Bibi told Congress
Self-hating Jews, obvs. Collaborators. Quislings.
What am I forgetting?
Omnes Omnibus
@Cervantes:
Sounds like liberal interventionism to me. Do what you can where you can. A can of worms, of course.
Mandalay
@patrick II:
I’ll second that. He and TNC are the best writers/journalists who are working right now by some considerable distance. I can’t think of anyone else who comes close to them.
Tree With Water
“Debbie Wasserman Schultz wants us all to maintain a non-partisan perspective over Netanyahu’s speech”.
Schultz is a Michelle Bachman-caliber birdbrain to have said such a thing. Granted, politicians insult people’s intelligence all the time. But there are lines that can be crossed, and Schultz just crossed it.
She’ll probably end up nominated for Secretary of State by president-elect Clinton.
PurpleGirl
@Mandalay: I don’t think so, IIRC that’s how the Reagan administration got the money to give the Contras in Central America so they could fight there.
Omnes Omnibus
@PurpleGirl: For once, I think Mandalay was going for snark.
burnspbesq
Did anyone else, while listening to or reading Netanyahu’s speech, think to himself or herself, “If this is the reasonable guy, and all of the opposition candidates in the upcoming election are even crazier, we are well and truly fucked?”
moderateindy
@Mike in NC:
Not disagreeing with you, just pointing out how little foreign aid we actually give to anybody, Isreal is by far the biggest benefactor, and even in their case most of the foreign aid we give them is in the form of weapons, which is actually just one more form of welfare for our bloated MIC.
If I was a leader in Isreal, I don’t know how I would handle the Palestinian situation, but I’m pretty sure antagonizing them even further by stealing what little land they have, and building new settlements wouldn’t be on the list of good ideas to promote peace.
When I hear people talk about how Isreal is our close friend, my mind always jumps to the quote from Princess Bride…..You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Morzer
The Guardian sums it up pretty well:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/03/binyamin-netanyahu-speech-congress-long-on-terror-short-on-substance
I won’t link to it, but Jennifer Rubin’s screed on this occasion is so spittle-flecked and rabid that there’s got to be a decent chance she’s running through the WaPo offices biting passersby on all sides.
Tenar Darell
@Betty Cracker: Actually it does make a particular kind of sense. As long as it’s understood as part of the pre-millenialist foundation of modern American evangelicalism.
Judge Brandeis (an early American Jewish supporter of the creation of Israel) was aware of at least some of what he was getting into, though I doubt he would have believed how the Evangelical viewpoint would supersede American Jewish opinion in importance. I was unaware how far back the association reached until I heard a Virtually Speaking interview with Matthew Sutton, about his book, American Apocalypse: A History of Modern Evangelicalism. (Honestly, knowing just a little about the idea of the Apocalypse in Christianity, all the fervent devotion to Israel has always scared the sh*t out of me).
Omnes Omnibus
@Morzer:
Masochist?
divF
One of the more peculiar facts about Bibi’s family is that his wife’s brother, Matania Ben-Artzi and Matania’s wife, Ofra are as left-wing as anyone here on BJ; Jonathan, their son, carried on the family tradition by going to jail for being an IDF conscientious objector. When Bibi started to become prominent in the Likud, Haaretz ran a piece in their weekly magazine section (analogous to the NYT Sunday magazine) about Bibi’s family, which included a full-page photo of his leftist brother-in-law. They (the Ben-Artzi’s) are very nice, low-key people, but very passionate about politics. Matania and I work in related areas of mathematics, and I used to run in to him when he and his family used to spend summers in these parts.
Mandalay
@Tree With Water:
I don’t care much for Clinton, but one of her admirable qualities is that she hates DWS like poison. Why?…
The cherry on top is that Oama can’t stand DWS either.
Morzer
@Omnes Omnibus:
I read it with fascination and increasing horror, plus a brief moment of hope that she might bite Bezos. It’s a denunciation of Obama and the Left as anti-semitic traitors to America, with a raging diarrhetic howl for war with Iran now, now, now thrown in as its background music . The WaPo should be ashamed of publishing it and should remove this bloodthirsty bigoted madwoman immediately to a safer, better medicated environment without access to sharp pencils.
eemom
Wow, what a brave statement. Cuz there’s so likely to be a lot of dissent from any FPers here, or any others, to what you’ve said.
Netanyahu is a despicable asshole, and what happened today was a disgrace.
But it had exactly what the fuck to do with Jonathan Pollard or the USS Liberty?
And one despicable Israeli politician justifies the kindergarten-playground statement, “Israel is NOT OUR FRIEND”, exactly why?
Not going to get dragged into this shit again as I have in the past. But I’m more disappointed than I can say in a FPer that I previously respected.
patrick II
@Chris:
Israel’s long term strategy of helping Iran and then encouraging Bush to create regime change in Iraq may not have worked out too well for Bibi in the long run. Now Shiite Iran and the Shiite majority in Iraq are closer to being allies and a bigger threat to Israel. Which is why Bibi’s real agenda is war and regime change in Iran. He got us suckers to do it for him once, and from what I hear from right-wing megaphones they are cheering to be stupid twice.
Obama, on the other hand, is not a puppet in Bibi’s play of war and destruction of Israel’s rivals — which is why Bibi hates Obama so.
Morzer
@eemom:
I see your critical thinking skills have not improved. Maybe one day you’ll allow yourself the luxurious advantage of actually reading what a front-pager says before you utter your usual incontinent screech of ignorant rage.
eemom
@Morzer:
I read every word he said.
And you are a pathetic gasbag.
Mike G
@Violet:
“I know what America is,” Netanyahu told a group of terror victims, apparently not knowing his words were being recorded. “America is a thing you can move very easily.”
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/checkpoint-washington/2010/07/netanyahu_america_is_a_thing_y.html
Morzer
@eemom:
If you read, you did not understand.
Amazing as that thought may be to you, it surprises no-one else.
burnspbesq
@eemom:
Unlike you, I completely understood Sooner’s argument.
It’s called “marshaling the data that support your hypothesis.” It’s not meaningfully different than cross-referencing your proposed findings of fact in the argument section of a brief.
ICYMI, the hypothesis is that Israel is not to be trusted, and will fuck the United States at any time, if it concludes that fucking the United States is the right thing to do to advance what Israel perceives to be its interests.
I’d say that espionage and unprovoked attacks fit neatly into that narrative, and the fact that they didn’t happen last week doesn’t materially reduce their validity as data points.
You are free to disagree, and I’m sure you will, at great volume and with very little to back up what you choose to say.
And yes, I am fully aware of how condescending this comment sounds. The condescension is intentional.
Have a wonderful rest of your evening.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Morzer:
I for one am shocked, just shocked.
David Koch
Losing long time supporters.
Morzer
@BillinGlendaleCA:
I know, the gambling in this establishment!
seaboogie
@eemom: Always personal with you, isn’t it? Can’t just enter into a dialectic on the ideas?
David Koch
Alan Grayson, the phoney who calls everyone a sell out and portrays himself as the king of progressivism – yeah, well he attended Netanyahu’s warmongering speech.
I told you so.
J R in WV
As a child I read about the brave zionists who survived the Nazis of Germany to found Irael. The stories of how they built weapons in basement factories, hiding from the British while preparing to defend themselves from the Arabs who vowed to sweep them into th sea.
I didn’t understand how they could have attacked the Liberty, killing USN sailors. I didn”t understand why Pollard was enabled to become a spy for Israel inside the American government.
Now I understand that Isreal has fallen into the control of people just like henry K, and that war crimes can be committed by any side in a conflict that allows people of criminal minds to have power to commit crimes.
I will never understand how they gradually became dedicated to removing the Palistinian Arabs from their farms just as antisemites were dedicated to removing Jews from their homes in other times and places. Stealing age-old olive groves from their farmers is just wrong. Causing wars is just wrong.
Bibi is a war criminal and a genocidal hater of Palistinian Arabs who live under his control. I won’t be working to re-elect anyone who attended that speech.
David Koch
@burnspbesq: Burnsie, are you naturally sexist or is it the result of being catholic?
eemom
@burnspbesq:
The day that someone I respect acts like an asshole to me on this blog is the day I’ll give a shit when it happens.
Congrats on joining that distinguished non-company after these many years of our acquaintance. A lovely evening to you as well.
SRW1
That’s not what this is about. It’s about the preconditions for the endtime phantasies of a 3k year old scifi novel going through Jerusalem.
BillinGlendaleCA
@eemom:
You respect someone on this here blog? I’m not holding my breath on you curing your constipation.
Morzer
@BillinGlendaleCA:
She’s a proud member in good standing of the ignorant tight-ass club. Constipation comes with the territory.
Mandalay
@David Koch:
With very good reason from his pandering perspective – he’s thinking about running for the Senate in 2016 and dare not piss off Jewish donors and Jewish voters:
Imagine that. The price we pay for warm winters in South Florida is that we will get to choose between DWS, Marco Rubio and Alan Grayson as one of our senators. It’s like being asked whether you want to stab yourself in the eye with a sharp stick, a rusty fork or a chopstick.
eemom
@BillinGlendaleCA:
@Morzer:
Y’all two have wives, right?
Poor ladies. : (
seaboogie
@BillinGlendaleCA: It would seem that The Jolly Green Giant (yes, I know) relieves himself in her cornflakes every day.
SRW1
@eemom:
You seriously think Sooner wrote this to act like an asshole to you? That seems a bit … deluded, if I may be so frank.
BillinGlendaleCA
@seaboogie: You’d think that would provide sufficient fiber.
seaboogie
@BillinGlendaleCA: Nah…fiber would be taking a dump. Though with the attitude presented, that might seem a better explanation. Urine might better explain the ‘pissy’ attitude. Srsly, her bed is unique in that no matter what side she rises from, it is always the wrong side. Princess has a pea the size of a watermelon. Can’t imagine living with that much anger all of the damn time.
eemom
@SRW1:
That is not what I said. I was referring to the comments.
This is what I said about Sooner’s post.
Let’s see — where did the ad hominen/wominems START on this thread….and go on from there?
https://balloon-juice.com/2015/03/03/with-friends-like-these-6/#comment-5272366
Morzer
@eemom:
My wife is shaking her head at your limited repartee. She thinks you should quit while you are humiliatingly behind.
eemom
@seaboogie:
Take yourself a little dip in that sea sometime, boogie. Might revive a few of those life-supported brain cells.
BillinGlendaleCA
@eemom:
It’s quite rich of you to bemoan ad hominen attacks. I was also unaware that women were the only humans that suffered from constipation.
eemom
@Morzer: @BillinGlendaleCA:
Good night, sad sacks.
Very glad I’m not your Mrs.
Morzer
@eemom:
You were never even a contender.
BillinGlendaleCA
@eemom:
Feelings mutual, counselor.
Morzer
@BillinGlendaleCA:
I guess we both dodged a bullet there, which ought to make for an interesting ballistics report.
SRW1
@eemom:
Sorry, your ‘asshole’ comment was a reply to a comment by burnspbesq in which he laid out how he understood Sooner’s post. While burns conceded to being condescending, there is no indication that you were responding to that aspect, as it is quite clear that your asshile titulation was to another person than burns and to the reader the only one that makes in this context if it is not burns is Sooner. As a matter of fact, for the reader there is no recognizable connection to Morzer’s comment
BillinGlendaleCA
@Morzer: And to think how far we had to go to dodge that fate.
Morzer
@BillinGlendaleCA:
I had to walk all the way from King’s Landing to Valyria while pulling myself up by my bread-bag straps. It was a dark and stormy night as well.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Morzer: I had to walk across the street from my office. It was very hot, so there’s that.
Morzer
Obama has apparently told the world that Nutty Yahoo’s speech said nothing new, although he allowed as how the relationship with Israel was unbreakable. He didn’t watch the speech because he was talking to our European partners about the Ukraine, but he did look at the transcript. Translation: same old, same old and Bibi ain’t getting jack from me.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Morzer: Nutty Yahoo has been giving the same speech for at least the last 20 years about Iran. He’s been giving a similar speech about other countries and entities(the PLO) since the President(and I) were in high school.
Morzer
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Obama played it just right. He’s managed to make clear that Netanyahu can have an infinite number of zero fries to go with his nothing-burger, while at the same time not saying anything that Bibi could use to whip up Israelis against the American “enemy”.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Morzer: I think the most critical thing Obama has said, was kind of a “could have given me a heads up, bro”.
F
What is the likelihood of Netanyahu getting re-elected anyway?
David Koch
Sherparick
12 years on and the positive reverberations (and death toll) just keep rolling throughout the region.
I have become a regular reader of Daniel Larison, and I find his comment on yesterday’s speech before Boehner’s Neo-Confederate Congress to be perfect:
“…The other remarkable thing was the embarrassing, rapturous response of the assembled members in the audience. Except for extremely rare occasions when an American president has enjoyed stratospheric approval ratings, I cannot recall such a loud, overwrought response from members of a Congress to a visiting speaker. The audience this morning enthusiastically cheered on the sabotage of a major U.S. diplomatic initiative, the undermining of an important U.S. policy goal, and the blatant meddling of a foreign leader in our domestic politics. It is one of the more disgraceful things I’ve seen an assembly of American political leaders do, and that is really saying something.”http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/the-disgraceful-spectacle-in-congress/
In another blog entry, referencing an Israeli commentator, Larison notes the real low, selfish motives of both Netanyahu and the Republicans for waving the bloody shirt and opposing any deal with Iran. They need an “existential enemy” to whip fear and hatred among their supporters and justify their hold on or pursuit of power. For the Village, we have always been at war with Eurasia. (The Conservative Movement becomes more 1984ish by the day).
brantl
@Morzer: Seconded. If EEmoms stuff was accompanied by a picture, it would be a Pit Bull, foaming at the mouth.
Sherparick
@Mandalay: Then how come she remains the Democratic National Committee Chair? I like the President overall, but he and his team have had carried Rahm Emmanuel’s grudge against Howard Dean and the organization he created from 2004-2008 and to turn that organization into a non-entity and in doing so have basically allowed the catastrophic collapse of state Democratic parties and two terrible mid-term elections.
debbie
Bibi reminds me of Eric Cartman. He expects people to take him at his word and believe him, but everyone knows he’s lying through his teeth.
All these years later, Israel continues at every opportunity to ask that Pollard be pardoned. Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results. Kinda like the GOP and the ACA.
D58826
I agree it’s long past time that the US re-evaluates its relationship with Israel. After all Bibi said himself that Israel can defend it self alone if need be. Its time that the US make that happen. Maybe we can start by abstaining from a few Security Council votes on Israeli actions on the west bank and Gaza.
Another Holocene Human
@burnspbesq: according to the comments, “naive”
that was a well-written, informative piece, and the comments were informative in their own way. Kudos to the Forward.
Another Holocene Human
@Tree With Water: Schultz is ambitious scum who is in politics for herself. Look at how successful (not) she’s been picking up House seats in Florida and the southeast. We did have a pickup (also a loss) last election, Dist 2 Gwen Graham, no thanks to DWS whatsoever.
She’s just a con, one of those critters you find in politics. Trust her at your peril.
Another Holocene Human
@David Koch: Alan Grayson still has rabid groupies? I thought their new crush was Rand Paul.
boatboy_srq
@Mike J: The GOTea – and the FundiEvangelists in particular – have only one use for Jews, and that’s a Returned population to the Holy Land so they can be cannon fodder for Armageddon. The Teahad is not Likud’s friend any more than (and possibly far less than) Israel is the US’ friend.
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): To Bibi, the US is Israel’s sugar daddy and hit man. End of story. Though from his yarn to Congress, you’d think that a ragtag fugitive army stormed the beaches at Haifa and founded the Reimaged Greater Judea all on its own, and that centuries of colonialism, billions in arms and aid from the US and Europe, and a UN resolution had no impact, and that Israel could indeed take care of itself.
Chris
@boatboy_srq:
There was someone a while ago who said “they don’t love real Jewish people. They love us as characters in their play. And it’s not our play, and we didn’t audition for the part, and it’s not a play that ends well for us.”
Another Holocene Human
@Mandalay: They all suck but imo Rubio sucks worse. Send him back to the Florida legislature. His brand of derp fits right in there.
Another Holocene Human
@Sherparick: Don’t forget, for both Likud and the GOP, the real enemy is Barack Obama.
kindness
Curious how the USS Liberty is forgotten by so many. Having grown up in suburban NYC, I have had a ton of Jewish friends and now family. I support the state of Israel but have always been bothered that it was/is a theocracy. My opinion of theocracies is extremely poor. They in ever case trample minority rights and that doesn’t work for me. As Israel has gone more crazy right wing my support of Israel has waned. To me it seems they learned the wrong lessons from the Nazis. Instead of ‘one just doesn’t do this’ we seem to have gotten ‘this is how it’s done’. Screw that stuff. I am not supporting that. No way.
Bibi can go screw himself and the horse he rode in on.
Elie
No matter what, our relationship with Israel is in transition and while still a powerful relationship, its importance and relevance to the US is fading, which is why Bibi came. For those who want to read the history, its cited upstring and below… we have been drifting into divergent paths for a while and this will continue as it is not in our interests to continue as it is. There will be no war with Iran or bullshit about a strong US ground troop presence in the ME. We are pursuing a strategy that will balance competing allies and interests. None of these allies which include Saudi Arabia, Turkey and yes, Israel, will like this but too bad. Relax. The Bibi show was theater for his own following.. he is not dictating our policy but he will do his best to show his behind to placate the following that remains. His play to our right wing is precisely because the strategic relationship is changing and he is playing to the only side that gives him some sort of affirmation for his crazy policies on the settlements and some sort of war with Iran. Israel will be under increasing pressure from events to stop the bullshit. Hopefully they will elect a new government next week, but even if he is re-elected — it wont matter much. Patrick upstring cites James Fallows who writes about this some and I reference this source (also referenced in the Fallows article.
https://www.stratfor.com/weekly/netanyahu-obama-and-geopolitics-speeches
Bitter Scribe
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yeah, kinda like Vietnam…
henqiguai
@David Koch (#83):
Um, what? Re-read his entry; saw nothing there sexist. Unless calling someone to task of the opposite gender is now sexist.
KXB
Change does happen – although painfully slow. In 2006, when John Mearsheimer (U of Chicago) and Stephen Walt (Harvard) wrote “The Israel Lobby”, there was a firestorm of controversy. They were called anti-Semites, saying there was a cabal of Jews running American FP. Some even suggested that their Germanic surnames were suspicious. To their immense credit, they calmly took on each of their critics, and methodically tore apart each of the criticisms. What is telling, at the time, you could not even put the words “Israel” and “lobby” in the same sentence. Now, it is common-place.
Over at Mondoweiss, Phil Weiss writes with far more insight into this issue, not from a DC-centric political angle, but from a broader cultural perspective. Before the Baby Boomers, America was run by the WASP elite – who looked back at the Industrial Age, dealing with WWII on two fronts, setting up the post-war order with institutions like NATO and Bretton Woods, and launching the Space Race. Looking at their records, this WASP elite felt there was nothing they could not do. But, that hubris led to Vietnam, and a shattering of WASP self-confidence.
In it’s place, Jews were ready for a new, more merit-based approach to business and government – and they did very well in this setup. But like the WASPs before them, those that reached the top of business & government too often believed they knew best, or followed the WASP model of gaming a fixed system (as elites of any background are prone to do). The WASP reputation for competence & brains was shattered in SE Asia and race riots in urban America, with the Jewish equivalent finding its disaster in Iraq and the rest of the Middle East plus an economic collapse in 2008.
But, there is a difference this time. Because of the outsized role of money – even if you have votes to disengage from overseas military adventures – those who benefit form the current system (defense contractors, neocons, etc) can often win out over voters’ choices. Bibi gets most of his campaign money from a handful of American Jewish families, not Israeli. Israeli voters do not show him any degree of deference the way Congress did yesterday.
This is not just relating to Israel. Saudi Arabia & China use their financial clout to push their interests in DC, usually with the active assistance of American CEOs. last week, the Wall Street Journal had an article on how the NSC and US intelligence agencies are wary of Qatar’s support for Islamist groups, but there concerns were over-ridden by the Pentagon. Qatar allows a huge US naval presence in their country, which gives them leverage in such disputes.
DavidTC
There’s an important and interesting fact that absolutely no one seems aware of about national leadership:
No leader of a country, no matter how ‘insane’ and ‘fanatical’ they are, has ever deliberately gotten into a war they obvious couldn’t win.
It simply doesn’t happen. Ever.
Sure, countries have miscalculated and pissed off other countries and started wars that way. Or they’ve started wars they *could* have won, but didn’t.
There are some examples we like to *pretend* are those things, like Saddam invading Kuwait, but that would have been an entirely winnable war if we had stayed out of it, and he thought we would.
But not once has a ‘lunatic’ decided to enter a war they knew they couldn’t win. Ever. In the entire history of the world, as far as I know. At least not in modern times, where don’t really believe in divine right anymore so we tend not to let actual insane people run countries.(1)
Iran knows it cannot win a war with Israel. And the entire concept of ‘crazy people endangering countries near them’ is completely unsupported by history.
1) No, not even North Korea. The North Korea leadership is *completely* aware of what will happen if they attack South Korea.
CDWard
From commentor eljay at Mondoweiss-
“Israel:
– is an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist “Jewish State”;
– has been stealing, occupying and colonizing Palestinian land and
oppressing, torturing and killing Palestinians for over 60 years;
– refuses to honour its obligations under international law;
– refuses to accept responsibility and accountability for its past and on-going (war) crimes; and
– refuses to enter into sincere negotiations for a just and mutually-beneficial peace.”
See http://www.ifamericansknew.org for more information.