There has been some controversy this year surrounding the Oscars because no people of color are nominated. A recent interview with an anonymous female Academy member in the Hollywood Reporter shows that there’s good reason to be outraged. She explains:
What no one wants to say out loud is that Selma is a well-crafted movie, but there’s no art to it. If the movie had been directed by a 60-year-old white male, I don’t think that people would have been carrying on about it to the level that they were. And as far as the accusations about the Academy being racist? Yes, most members are white males, but they are not the cast of Deliverance. ... But if the movie isn’t that good, am I supposed to vote for it just because it has black people in it? I’ve got to tell you, having the cast show up in T-shirts saying “I can’t breathe” [at their New York premiere] — I thought that stuff was offensive. Did they want to be known for making the best movie of the year or for stirring up shit?
Keep it classy and anonymous, Academy members.
Team Blackness also discussed Eddie Murphy’s refusal to play Bill Cosby on SNL, Eric Holder wanting to put a stop to all executions, and how black women are most affected by domestic abuse.
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Bobby B.
I’m protesting the Oscars by not watching it. Plus, there’s a “Bob’s Burgers” on that night.
Villago Delenda Est
I would really like to know who this “anonymous” member of the “Academy” is.
So I can boycott his or her work for the rest of his or her miserable life, and encourage my friends to do so as well.
Buddy H
Murphy doesn’t owe anybody anything. He has the right to decide what he wants to do on SNL.
The “legendary” early SNL from the ’70s displayed virulent racism. They treated Garrett Morris like shit. They followed the tradition of National Lampoon, where most of their writers and performers came from. The Nat Lampoon was obsessively and disgustingly racist.
The not ready for prime time players weren’t as talented as they thought they were… Paul Mooney had some interesting stories about his experiences with them, writing for Pryor during his guest host role.
…and George Carlin, in his autobiography, called Lorne Michaels a cocksucker. He also had choice words about the venerated “Blues Brothers” i.e. a pair of overweight comedians butchering blues classics, and making more money than the original artists.
The current SNL and the 40th anniversary special is just a bunch of egomaniacs patting themselves on the back. It was offputting when an earlier generation did it (Milton Berle and Bob Hope) and it’s not funny now.
RP
I don’t see what’s so terrible about these comments. Are people allowed to dislike the movie because they don’t think it’s great filmmaking? Is she wrong about the fact that it would be seen in a different light if Ridley Scott had directed it?
The last comment is a bit obnoxious.
ET
There may be no “art” to a lot of biopics (ora whole lot of what comes out of Hollywood for that matter) but the well done ones with white protagonists get nominated…..
(no one ever said Hollywood was self-reflective)
RP
J. Edgar wasn’t nominated for anything. Ray was nominated for Best Picture and I thought it was solid but not great (although Jamie Foxx absolutely deserved to win). Walk the Line, which I thought was better overall than Ray, wasn’t nominated for Best Picture.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
They had the head of Rotten Tomatoes on the radio this morning (I’m in LA, so company town) and he said flat out that “Selma” didn’t get nominated because Paramount didn’t send out screeners and Academy members are too lazy to go out to the theaters. If it doesn’t arrive on their doorstep, they don’t see it.
As I said when the nominations first came out, there was a perfect storm of PR screw-ups, old boy network shut-outs and, yes, racism (and sexism) that doomed “Selma.”
Annoying as it is, though, the Academy Awards don’t really have much influence past the actual year they happen. What movie do people watch from 1990, “Goodfellas” or the movie that beat it for Best Picture? Can anyone even name the Best Picture winner from 5 years ago off the top of their heads?
Lots of great movies were dissed by the Oscars. As Spike Lee said, “Fuck ’em.” And he knows.
Belafon
@RP: The give away is the part about the shirts. It would be the equivalent of a food critic saying “I can’t really give my blessing to the food, but boy the owner was fat.”
Bondo
I still believe #OscarsSoWhite is accurate, but Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu is a person of color, correct? Or was the “no people of color are nominated” comment specific to acting categories?
My Oscar ballot would have had Belle and Dear White People represented, in addition to David Oyelowo.
Buddy H
They also don’t respect comedies. I thought Bill Murray in Saint Vincent would be nominated for something, but comedy is seen as low class by the serious thinkers on the academy.
dan
If a movie is “very serious”, has music that swells during dramatic momemts, and all the black people suffer nobly, does that mean it deserves an award?
RP
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): That’s how I feel. Complaining about the oscars is a waste of time. Crash and Braveheart winning Best Picture are far bigger crimes than Selma not getting nominated IMO, and those are just the tip of the iceberg. The oscar voters consistently make incredibly stupid choices, so why get worked up about it?
Buddy H
Richard Brody wrote an interesting piece about the black woman who wrote and directed “Daughters of the Dust”:
“It would be nice to think that, if the 1991 film “Daughters of the Dust” (which I discuss in this clip) were released today, it would instantly propel its director, Julie Dash, to the contemporary pantheon and launch her on a long, busy, and celebrated career. Instead, she said in a 2011 interview, “I have done cable movies. But since then, coming off the Sundance stage, I have never gotten a motion-picture deal.” This is a shock: “Daughters of the Dust” is one of the most distinctive, original independent films of the time. Richard Linklater released “Slacker” in the same year and has made fifteen features since then; some of them are excellent, but neither “Slacker” nor any of the others can hold a candle to the inventiveness of “Daughters of the Dust.” Granted, it’s not a film that has what may be called the popular touch. By way of quick comparison, it’s similar in tone to the work of Terrence Malick. But it’s worth recalling that, at the time of “Daughters of the Dust,” Malick had made only “Badlands” and “Days of Heaven,” from 1973 and 1978, respectively.”
Kylroy
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): “As I said when the nominations first came out, there was a perfect storm of PR screw-ups, old boy network shut-outs and, yes, racism (and sexism) that doomed ‘Selma.'”
This. Racism is certainly at work, but the old-boy network that runs the Academy Awards won’tlook real favorably on any movie that doesn’t kowtow to them properly.
And you’re right about awards not meaning much in the long run – any movie that’s more famous for winning the award than being a great movie is probably middling at best, (Looking at you, Crash, Shakespeare in Love, and The King’s Speech.)
Roger Moore
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
I’m not going to dispute the basic point, but what does that say about the whole business of the Academy Awards? I guess they’re successful at their commercial purpose of getting media attention for the movie business, but awards that get ignored quickly after they’re given are deeply flawed.
Buddy H
@dan: Sure, if it’s a great film, with oscar-worthy performances.
Amir Khalid
I think the deal with the Academy is, they reckon they did black-people movies last year.
As for the anonymous Academy member, I’m not impressed by the reasons she gives for her votes. The merits of each nominee seem to be a secondary consideration for her. She’s guessing who will win, based on her reading of industry sentiment about them, rather than saying who she thinks should win.
In the end, it really shouldn’t matter to the moviegoer whether or not his favourite actor/director/screenwriter/whatever won an Oscar or a Golden Globe or what. You like what you like because of what you took away from it as a viewer; that’s no less valid than what any other person thinks, even if they’re an Academy voter.
Geeno
Marisa Tomei getting Best Supporting Actress for “My Cousin Vinny”. That’s the Oscars for you.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@RP:
It would have been nominated if Ridley Scott had directed it. Not only because he’s an old white dude, but because he’s a member of the club and a previous nominee.
Ava DuVernay is not a member of the club. She’s black, she didn’t go to film school and, most importantly, she was never married to James Cameron, so he couldn’t signal to the rest of the boys club that she’s one of the girls who don’t have cooties, so it’s okay to vote for her. People vastly underestimate how important Cameron’s public endorsement was to Kathryn Bigelow’s win, and to his credit, he knew it and made a point of endorsing her.
Steve McQueen was already known in Hollywood for “Shame,” but what put “12 Years” over the top was Brad Pitt’s support and endorsement. DuVernay didn’t have that kind of sponsor — Oprah doesn’t have that kind of pull. DuVernay needed a certified Member of the Club to support her.
Bondo
@RP:
Selma is nominated for Best Picture.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
Also, if you read up on why “Selma” could not use Dr. King’s actual speeches, it’s because Steven Spielberg bought the rights for a King biopic that he’s producing. That’s another possible factor — she stepped on the toes of a Member of the Club and stole his thunder by making her movie first. You say “dick move by Spielberg,” I say, “Life in Hollywood.”
beth
@Geeno: Rumor’s always been that Jack Palance screwed up that one by reading the wrong name. Anyway, that’s the reason I like to think she won for that movie.
RP
@Buddy H: I agree that Dash is incredibly talented, and it’s a shame she hasn’t gotten higher profile work, but Daughters of the Dust is not very accessible and had no hope of getting a wider audience. And that’s all Hollywood really cares about — money. If she’d made a more commercial follow up she would have gotten a lot more attention.
Linklater is an odd comparison. Aside from School of Rock, he’s basically worked outside of the hollywood system and all of his movies have been very low budget. Plus, I totally disagree with the claim that none of his works are as inventive as Daughters of the Dust. Waking Life? Boyhood? That’s silly.
RP
@Bondo: Right — I meant the director not getting nominated.
RP
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): All good points.
Buddy H
@RP: If she’d made a more commercial follow up she would have gotten a lot more attention. Hard to do that if you don’t get a movie deal, like Linklater did.
She walked out of Sundance with nothing.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Roger Moore:
It says that they don’t mean much beyond bragging rights for the studios that win them. They were founded as a desperate attempt to avoid government censorship (Look, we have an academy of arts and sciences! We’re classy! Don’t regulate us!) and are now a marketing tool and a way for Hollywood to pat itself on the back.
They’re slightly less corrupt than in the 1950s, at least. The Best Picture winners for that decade are frequently cringe-worthy. “The Greatest Show on Earth”? “Around the World in 80 Days”?
Buddy H
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121031/hell-trying-option-your-book
Michael J. Agovino wrote an excruciating essay on his experience with hollywood producers. He thought they’d make a film out of his novel, and all he got was some waffles.
Lots of self-pity in the piece, and envy, but he really shows how that town works: Lots and lots of bullshit.
Don
Not to defend this fool, but let’s be clear – “member of the academy” is about as discriminating as “recipient of a J.D. Power award.” There’s over 6,000 of them and this is the “limiting” factor of who gets to join:
So odds are this person is likely nobody known by anyone but her family. She’s anonymous only marginally more than if the chickenshit had given her name.
As far as “would it be nominated if,” what crap. Everyone knows there’s a swath of “Oscar bait” categories and racial dramas are in there. So are plenty of other lily-white “overcoming adversity” types of plots, like that one where we saw how the Indonesian tsunami gave some white woman a sad while it was killing a quarter million brown folks. A white woman cast in the part based on a Spaniard, mind.
Selma would have been nominated regardless of being made by some pasty old white dude. The big difference is that Acadamy members might have liked it better if it hasn’t spent so much focus on those tiresome black folks with their opinions and things rather than showing what some white kid did.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Buddy H:
I got to hear Allison Anders speak one time and she said that the pitfall that a lot of women directors of her generation fell into was that they didn’t have their next script written and ready to go when they started showing their finished film. No idea if Dash falls into that group.
I’m more of a Kasi Lemmons fan anyway — “Talk to Me” was really good.
Amir Khalid
For what it’s worth, I read the other three Brutally Honest interviews that THR has published so far. I can’t say I’m impressed with these anonymous Academy members.
RP
@Buddy H: Did Linklater get a deal because of Slacker? I thought Dazed and Confused was made outside of the studio system.
Amir Khalid
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
Alas, I remember Kasi Lemmons only as the actress who played Clarice Starling’s FBI academy roommate in The Silence Of The Lambs.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Buddy H:
The director of “50 Shades of Gray” had a highly acclaimed British indie film in 2009 that got nominated for several BAFTAs, but she struggled to get more work after that. She basically took “50 Shades” out of desperation.
Fortunately for her, the movie made money, so she may be able to get another job after this one. Maybe.
gvg
award shows never agreed with me, so I never paid attention to them. I could attribute a lot of reasons for all the other choices but I think it really comes down to, they don’t agree with me and I don’t agree with them. I can’t tell ordinary every year cluelessness from racism so I can’t say that is the reason and therefore I am not worked up about it. I have plenty of other examples of racism that I am sure of and has real impact I can tell about so that is where I will focus. Prison sentances and voter supression seem lots more verified and important to me. If I worked in that industry no doubt it would be a big deal to me but I still wouldn’t expect most other people to care.
Selma just needs to be watched by lots of people and get talked about. Awards are not important. Well hollywood awards aren’t. If school teachers gave movie awards, that might be good for Selma.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Amir Khalid:
She went into directing shortly after that. Her debut film, “Eve’s Bayou” is a knockout. I also recommend “Talk to Me” (obviously) though it’s very American. ;-)
Elizabelle
The Oscar voter:
Ava Duvernay was a film publicist (her own company) before she promoted herself to director.
Some of this might be “Me- Owwww.”
Elizabelle
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Really interesting Allison Anders comment.
Elizabelle
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): From Betty’s teatard grifting thread below: your comment:
Found a May 2014 BBC article on this; can you link to something more recent? Several of us downblog iz interested in rebutting wingnuts in a manner that works. (Unlike us libtards.)
BBC: The Best Way to Win an Argument
chopper
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
this is a good point, but in the defense of the members of the academy, they can’t necessarily be expected to go out and see every single movie that could possibly be nominated for an award. this is more paramount’s fault than anybody else’s. how hard is it to send out some screeners?
Elizabelle
My question: Why do the studios release their Oscar contenders so late in the season?
As for “Selma”, I think it works against several of the films which needed time to build their audience and word of mouth.
FWIW, Grand Budapest came out in March, and Boyhood debuted in the US in July, and those are both very well known (OK also white male) directors. Birdman and Whiplash were released in October.
I shall vomit if “American Sniper” scores big. If so, Eastwood should send his Oscar to ISIS. Some of that movie’s overwrought audience response goes beyond the usual American warmongering to having a cinematic alternative to sitting there in your living room, watching people beheaded or incinerated, retail or wholesale, on the teevee news. By middle east terrorists. (*US gun violence deaths don’t count. Cost of doing business.)
Roger Moore
@Kylroy:
I don’t think it really matters. Hollywood has an obvious diversity problem, and that shows up not just in awards but also in the kinds of movies it makes and the people who get promoted. It doesn’t matter if that is a result of racism or insularity; it has the effect of shutting out deserving people and ideas either way.
Amir Khalid
@Elizabelle:
The more recently it came out, the more likely it is to stick in the Academy voter’s mind. The year of eligibility, as I recall, runs from Boxing Day to Christmas Day. So a Christmas release e.g. Les Misérables could be winning Oscars just two months later in February.
Elizabelle
Got to drop in my “sent chills ran down my back” story from “Selma.” It happened in the theatre in Alexandria, VA.
I went to the first matinee on Martin Luther King holiday. Film sold out; hard to find seats but I found a single seat down frontish next to two elderly ladies. Chatted with the one next to me throughout the movie, which we all enjoyed. Excellent flick.
Lights go up. The elder lady, 2 seats down, announces: “I ate breakfast with Martin Luther King in 1956.”
And she did. He spoke at a black fraternity breakfast for the Omegas in Baltimore. In a private home. This lady mentioned the Baltimore hotels did not want black fraternities’ business, and that if they did a big program, it was at the Coliseum.
I knew about the Green Book (so black motorists could find food, lodging and service on the road) and colored entrances, etc. That Colin Powell’s family drove at night on car trips, so kids wouldn’t notice the no stops as easily.
But I’d not thought about the additional significance of the big breakfast prepared in the movie. Had thought “it’s such an honor to host MLK and his entourage” and also “they don’t want to show up in a Selma restaurant and get local tongues wagging”. But equally possible: no other good dining options. Multi-hour drive from Atlanta to Selma.
Last: I think Ava Duvernay was not fair to LBJ’s role with voting rights, and it’s a flaw in an otherwise superb film. She missed the opportunity to explore more how much LBJ needed to get the American public on board — it was not a personal conflict, as she, regrettably, allows the audience to suppose. She should allow her audience to draw parallels with some issues today (Obama and healthcare, anyone), rather than putting it down to LBJ’s peculiarities.
This packed audience hissed loudly at some early LBJ scenes, where they took George Wallace in stride. That is not fair. Realize it was done to build drama, but it’s — I think — a real problem, when some folks may not know the history and take this as undebatable fact. (See Oliver Stone movie on JFK re that.)
Elizabelle
@Amir Khalid: I realize that’s the impetus, but I think it’s worked to disadvantage as well.
It’s a cynical strategy, isn’t it? I think it’s more interesting for voters to choose among movies they saw months before; the ones that stayed with them, and why. (Un PC comment: Not everyone is the title character in “Still Alice.”)
Doug r
I’m kind of bummed that the lego movie didn’t get nominated for Best Animated picture.
Buddy H
Street artist plants a coke-snorting Oscar statue in Hollywood:
http://dangerousminds.net/comments/street_artist_plants_a_coke_snorting_oscar_statue_in_hollywood
Amir Khalid
@Elizabelle:
Remember that the Academy’s voting membership skews towards old white men.
schrodinger's cat
@Elizabelle: Did you like Selma, apart from the LBJ part?
Elizabelle
@Buddy H: Link to the Richard Brody “Daughters of the Dust” piece. Look forward to reading it. Still haven’t seen that movie all the way through. Hear it’s gorgeous.
Elizabelle
@schrodinger’s cat: Yes. Liked “Selma” very much, and highly recommend it.
Oprah did a great turn as a voter denied. And then you find out there were even worse tests out there. Timely movie. The bridge scene stays with me, as does just plain the feel of the early 1960s.
gian
@Elizabelle:
If the academy voters are mostly older white liberals who remember LBJ fondly on civil rights, that is something they may be offended by
Elizabelle
@gian: Interesting point. I think Duvernay simplified the LBJ character too much — I hear the original script was more complex.
Also, it gives wingnuts fodder: See! It was Southern Democrats that were the real problem! Thanks, Ava.
Bitter Scribe
If you want to get seriously depressed, check out the comments on that Hollywood Reporter article. They devolve into a debate on black crime statistics in about one minute.
Chet
@Bondo: Iñárritu is a white Mexican*, not a POC.
* An oxymoron to your typical Tea Partier, perhaps. But that’s what he is.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Elizabelle:
Sorry, I wandered out to lunch. That’s the one I was thinking of.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Elizabelle:
Geg6 had a comment when the controversy first blew up that the Pulitzer Prize-winning play about LBJ, “All The Way,” includes a scene where LBJ authorizes Hoover to tape King with his mistress. In light of that, it seems pretty unfair to bash DuVernay for including the same information (speculation?) in her movie.
As far as LBJ getting hissed, I’m guessing it’s a combination of folks still being pissed off about Vietnam and the effect of having an ally say no. It’s almost hard to hiss Wallace, because you know that he’s an asshole right from the start. But having roadblocks thrown up by an ally is far more maddening. IMO, anyway.
Elizabelle
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): But was LBJ that personally (and institutionally) against voting rights? Methinks he was not. This is the man who spearheaded the Civil Rights Act shortly after taking office. Give him some cred.
Good and memorable scene (and edit), cutting from discussion with LBJ and J Edgar to Mr. and Mrs. MLK listening to a surveillance tape together. Also, the Kings’ marriage seemed rather formal and sometimes frosty, if memory serves. I wondered about that a bit.
Betty Cracker
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): It’s an interesting question, how much fealty artists owe to facts when their subject is a historical event. It seems like the more recent the subject of the movie, play, etc., the more accuracy people demand.
Nobody (well, few, anyway) gave a crap that “Braveheart” was wildly inaccurate, but I don’t think racism accounts for that — it’s more likely because the events it portrayed were so long ago.
Oliver Stone’s “JFK” got a lot of shit for its portrayal of an event within many people’s living memory. I think it deserved that criticism, especially since it looped in actual news footage. But ultimately, it’s just a movie, and it’s not Oliver Stone’s fault if people can’t be bothered to educate themselves and just uncritically swallow a Hollywood take.
I haven’t seen “Selma” yet, but I’m looking forward to it. I’ll reserve my own personal judgment about how it treated the subject until then.
lamh36
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): FYI, Selma was produced by Brad Pitt’s production company, same as 12 Years…same as the next movie with an African theme that Lupita N’yongo’s gonna be in.
Except, Brad Pitt didn’t film a part in Selma
lamh36
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Ana Duvernay was PA or work under Spielberg, I thought I had read that she considers him a mentor. So I suspect, but dont’ know obviously that she may have had to go to Spielberg and try to see if she could get the speech rights? Plus Oprah, has connections to Spielberg too?
BTW, is Spielberg even trying to do another movie on MLK? It would be sweet but unlikely if Speiberg cast the exact same people form Selma for his MLK movie. I mean the young actress who played Coretta Scott had actually played her before anyway.
Wouldn’t that be some shit, if it were to happen and then Oscars nominations came?
Patricia Kayden
I thoroughly enjoyed last year’s Oscars because so many Black people were nominated for awards. I’ll pass this year since the Oscars has reverted back to its all-White default position. However, I believe that at some point in time Black people are going to have to give up on the Oscars altogether and be satisfied with awards from their own organizations, i.e., the NAACP awards. Let’s be honest, how many Black movies are widely watched by White people? Perhaps “The Color Purple”? And even that movie received 11 nominations and won 0 Oscars!
Elizabelle
@Betty Cracker: I heard some folks defending Selma by pointing at Quentin Tarantino and Inglorious Basterds (Hitler meets his demise uh — differently) but that to me is way different, because people will realize the historical record does not bear that out. It was fantasy.
That’s in the league of Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter. This is diff.
ruemara
I’m surprised so many people are STILL complaining about possible inaccuracies in the portrayal of LBJ. Ok, was Turing actually as depicted in that nominated biopic? You know, it’s a film, not a documentary.
Elizabelle
@ruemara: Good point, and I need to see that movie soon.
Think it has to do with LBJ being a famous American? And I heard straight off there were probs with the depiction of Turing/what actually happened re Imitation Game. That was out there, straight away.
Betty Cracker
@ruemara: I’m not surprised. People expended billions of pixels parsing every scene of the Lord of the Rings trilogy — a movie about a decades-old work of fiction! In a way, it’s a compliment. If the movie sucked, no one would give a damn.
wasabi gasp
Anybody have a list of films made by people of color that the Oscars may have overlooked this year?
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@lamh36:
Yep, merely producing it is not enough. Remember what Pitt did last year that pissed off a lot of black viewers, but white Hollywood understood: he spoke first and introduced Steve McQueen to the crowd. He put his official Member of the Club stamp on McQueen. And, yeah, it looked a little weird to the non-Hollywood audience, but McQueen is a made man now. Any nominations he gets will be unremarkable within Hollywood, because he’s in the club.
One of the reasons I keep saying the “Selma” snub happened for multiple reasons is that it did. There was racism, but also sexism, and being an outsider to the club, and PR screwups by DuVernay’s studio. If she is a protégée of Spielberg’s, either he gave bad advice about the PR campaign for the Oscars or she didn’t take his advice. Or she just didn’t have enough clout to demand the campaign that the movie needed.
(Or that weird anti-Spielberg sentiment is still lurking under the surface in Hollywood. It pops out at odd times.)
I’m actually not at all worried about DuVernay — she’s smart, and driven, and she’s old enough to know not to give up just because of this one setback. This was her first film to get much attention from Hollywood (McQueen’s “Shame” got a Golden Globe nomination) so it’s only a matter of time before she gets nominated for a new project.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Patricia Kayden:
I totally disagree. It’s no longer remarkable when Black actors and actresses get nominated or win Oscars — in fact, this year is remarkable for being unusually white.
What you’re seeing now is breaking through to the next step of being acknowledged as creators (writers and directors). It’s a little like breaking through to have black quarterbacks — some people have a hard time acknowledging that a black man (much less a black woman) can be that kind of leader. But it’s inevitable, and hopefully someday it will be unremarkable.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
Also, I’ll be very curious to see what the TV ratings are for this year’s show. Last year, they had an extra 2.5 million people watch and their highest ratings in 10 years. I think they’re going to see a big dip this year, even with NPH hosting.