Here is a fascinating way to spend an hour- watching three judges basically grill a prosecutor about why it is ok for his office to lie at will, construct fake cases, perjure themselves, and then suppress evidence, and then, when called on it, prosecute no one involved:
Here’s the LA Times write-up:
The hearing seemed largely routine until a state prosecutor approached the lectern.
Deputy Atty. Gen. Kevin R. Vienna was there to urge three judges on the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals to uphold murder convictions against Johnny Baca for two 1995 killings in Riverside County. Other courts had already determined that prosecutors had presented false evidence in Baca’s trial but upheld the verdicts anyway.
Vienna had barely started his argument when the pummeling began.
Judge Alex Kozinski asked Vienna if his boss, Atty. Gen. Kamala D. Harris, wanted to defend a conviction “obtained by lying prosecutors.” If Harris did not back off the case, Kozinski warned, the court would “name names” in a ruling that would not be “very pretty.”
Judge Kim Wardlaw wanted to know why Riverside County prosecutors presented a murder-for-hire case against the killer but did not charge the man they said had arranged the killings.
“It looks terrible,” said Judge William Fletcher.
The January hearing in Pasadena, posted online under new 9th Circuit policies, provided a rare and critical examination of a murder case in which prosecutors presented false evidence but were never investigated or disciplined.
They weren’t prosecuted for the same reason shitty cops are never prosecuted, there’s the law, there’s the law enforcement apparatus, and then there is you. You’re not in the right club. They are.
Mudge
Cops lie to cover there asses. When everyone realizes this, it is all very simple.
mclaren
Cue Mnemosyne to assure us in tones of unctious superiority that HelL.A. has “cleaned up its act” and its grotesquely corrupt police and courts have “reformed themselves.”
Yeah.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
BruceFromOhio
The guy in prison is not a senator’s son, and no one is paying attention.
Until now. Looks like the new policy is working as intended.
Pogonip
We can has pupdate please?
Tokyokie
I’ve long believed that the penalty for prosecutorial misconduct is whatever penalty the misconducting prosecutor was seeking for the defendant.
Tree With Water
Atty. Gen. Kamala D. Harris just had her ambition for higher office rocked its core.
Schlemazel
Years ago hospitals realized there were a lot of mistakes made that hurt or killed patients and those mistakes were preventable. Now when someone dies or something goes wrong hospitals hold a board of review to determine what went wrong & how it could be done to prevent it. The results is that preventable mistakes are way down and people in hospitals are much better off.
When courts make a mistake & the wrong person is sentenced for a crime they didn’t commit prosecutors deny there was a mistake, judges pretend there is nothing that can do about it, nobody questions what went wrong or what could be done to prevent the mistake from being made again. Why is that? FOr every innocent person sent away there is a guilty criminal walking free, you would think we would want to do something about that.
Petorado
This nation needs to get over the impression that a cop busting someone is necessarily success and that someone being incarcerated is always a victory. Louisiana imprisons people at a rate higher than the police states of the old USSR and East Germany combined. How come the citizens of this nation are so very much worse than those of the rest of the world? Pogo really spoke the truth about how Americans look at each other with the famous line, “We have met the enemy and he is us.”
Heliopause
“fascinating”
Not the word I would use. Because we have a court proceeding where the judges are basically telling some group of subhuman filth that they are unreconstructed sociopaths, and not a fucking thing is going to happen to them beyond mild social embarrassment.
America. The Last Best Hope.
Steve from Antioch
The most dangerous place in the world to be is between creepy porn aficionado Judge Kozinski and a camera.
jayjaybear
@Schlemazel:
You also have “Justice” Scalia opining that new evidence that shows a convicted person is innocent (DNA evidence tested from a time before those tests were available, particularly) should not cause that conviction to be overturned or the convict released, because the convict got a fair trial for the time in which s/he was convicted. Apparently, justice consists of a ratchet mechanism that can never go backward in time.
raven
I have jury duty Monday. I ALWAYS get picked!!!
sharl
@Tree With Water: I’m wondering about her future as well, though not being a Californian, I don’t have any feel for the politics there.
Here in Prince George’s County (Maryland), a former State’s Attorney for the county, Glenn Ivey, saw his political future go down in flames at least in part because of a jail cell execution that took place during his watch, and for which no one was ever brought to justice. A real shame; I looked forward to voting for him in future campaigns until that happened. He should have handed the whole thing over to the FBI from the get-go, which wouldn’t guarantee any successful prosecutions, but would at least have increased the odds for something approaching justice to have happened.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@raven: I understand why. I sure as hell wouldn’t use a peremptory on you!
p.a.
@raven: stop voting.
liberal
@sharl: fuck him. He tried to primary Donna Edwards in a US House race. She’s very liberal and also black; it would have served no purpose other than his own ambitions.
sharl
@liberal: Yeah, I would have stayed with Donna in that match-up, especially since (IIRC) there were murmurs that AIPAC was gonna back Ivey against her.
But in a county that voted for scumbag Jack Johnson as executive, Ivey would have been an improvement for a number of offices.
BTW – and maybe you already know this – in this county, almost all of the Dems are AA, including Edwards and Ivey. So race tends not to be a factor, at least not in a direct way.
ETA: And also too, Ivey dropped out of that primary before it happened.
Schlemazel
@jayjaybear:
Well, in future days (assuming we as a species survive) the words “justice” and “Scalia” will be forbidden to appear in the same sentence.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
The funniest part is that mclaren has no idea where Riverside County is.
FlyingToaster
@p.a.: Jury Duty’s not necessarily tied to voting. Heah in the Commonwealth, it’s being in the town census. And the only chance to keep grifters off of the Town Council is to vote.
DH
This isn’t unusual behavior. Read about the following case in the Bronx:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304023804575566201554448476
Cops lie, State Attorneys lie, State Judges lie.
And nothing happens to them for doing it.
Mike E
@raven: Heh, go in wearing a CSI t-shirt.
catclub
@raven: If you say you will explain jury nullification to the other jurors, I bet they will excuse you.
AnotherBruce
Watching those judges ripping that weasel’s flesh makes me damn proud to be an American.
AnotherBruce
@Tokyokie: Word.
Omnes Omnibus
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I would. He is a cranky old bastard and he would convict a Packer fan of anything just because the guy wore green and gold.
AnotherBruce
@Steve from Antioch: Do you have a link you would like to share with us? Or did you pull this out of your uncleansed nether regions?
Sloegin
@p.a.: Many jurisdictions don’t tie it to voting. In my state if you live in one place longer than 6 months, you’re on the list.
If it weren’t for the fact that my state only pays $10 per day I’d enjoy getting called a lot more.
Omnes Omnibus
@AnotherBruce: Does this help?
mclaren
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini):
Giggle, giggle, snicker snicker. Leave it to Mnemosyne to yuk it up over innocent people getting sent to prison by crooked prosecutors.
Because, like Riverside County is soooooooooooooooo far away from Southern California.
Pathetic.
trollhattan
@Omnes Omnibus:
Appointed by one Ronald Wilson Reagan, I see. But hey, cows.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@mclaren:
Please explain what LAPD has to do with Riverside County. I guess all of Southern California is an undifferentiated mass all covered by LAPD, amirite?
Omnes Omnibus
@trollhattan: Actually, Kozinsky has not been a bad judge. Given who appointed him.
trollhattan
@Omnes Omnibus:
I always try to separate proclivities from performance (with certain exceptions) and of course am always amused when certain courts like the 9th are painted as hopelessly lyebrul while they sport Reagan and Bush appointees. Goddamn some of those justices live a long time.
trollhattan
BTW, anybody else hear today’s This American Life? Fascinating look at cop and inner city resident relationships, centered on Milwaukee Part 2 is next weekend.
Grumpy Code Monkey
No District Attorney or Attorney General ever lost an election by being “tougher on crime” that his or her opponent. The way you prove that you are “tough on crime” is by getting convictions, lots and lots of convictions. There absolutely is an incentive to falsify evidence to pad that conviction rate.
Schlemazel’s idea for a legal equivalent of a M&M board is a neat idea that should be implemented but won’t, for the simple fact that nobody in a hospital using that position to seek higher political office.
My Truth Hurts
That was fascinating, Cole. Thank you.
pcw
The Ninth Circuit judges’ questioning did get the attention of the California Attorney General. On January 29th, the AG filed the following:
The next day the Ninth Circuit issued the following order:
opiejeanne
@mclaren: It’s in Southern California. It’s the second largest county in the world, San Bernardino, it’s northern neighbor, being the largest.
The murder took place out near Palm Springs.
Tim in SF
It is sad the way some of you view jury duty. I’ve been on juries and it was always fascinating. Deliberations were intense and interesting. Also too, If I were on trial, I would want a random selection of balloon juice readers on my jury.
Suck it up. Don’t shirk your civic duty.
Grumpy Code Monkey
@Tim in SF: Got called 5 times, never got picked.
Struck twice, too far down twice, and for the last one the parties settled while we were waiting to be empaneled.
I’d actually like to serve at least once.
TriassicSands
@efgoldman: “They’ll send you home.”
Not if the only ones who hear that are on the prosecution team.
kc
Kamala Harris, our new Democratic heroine?
BruceFromOhio
@Tim in SF: This. I’ve been called about 5 times, and sat twice. Both times, the jury was as diverse as one could get in this area of the country. Both times, the deliberation was intense, thorough, and we made life hell for the judges, the lawyers, the bailiffs with all the requests for clarification and questions we were asking. It’s not a perfect system, there are plenty of ways both sides can play games to restrict the kinds of decisions the jury can make. But if my ass was on the line, I’d want my fellow jurors being the kind of people deciding my fate, not some politically-motivated apparatchik.
@pcw: So Baca is out? Or maybe the third time’s charm? Good for the State to move on it quickly, that new policy seems to be working just fine…
me
The kicker in this pile of bullshit.
BruceFromOhio
@Schlemazel: @Grumpy Code Monkey: I’m not a lawyer, but it sure seems like this YouTube channel provides such an avenue. It’s not clear to me what the Ninth Circuit can or cannot do in a circumstance like this, or whether that court could order a retrial or overturn a conviction directly. (Even the justices were discussing procedure at one point, “How do we remand this back to the court of appeals?”)
What is clear is that the review was recorded and published for wider consideration by objective third-parties, and can (and in this instance, did) result in action taken to correct mistakes made.
Bjacques
I’d be more interested if those judges were named Minos, Sarpedon and Rhadamanthus.
opiejeanne
@Tim in SF: almost every time I’ve been called I have been chosen. You’re right, it is fascinating to see the way it works, especially after seeing it represented on tv and in movies. The funny thing is that every judge said to us that it isn’t like that at all, but it pretty much was except much slower, for obvious reasons.
An assault trial with hostile witnesses, drunk driving case with a very dull defense lawyer, and a drug deal murder case complete with a quick school on reading gang tags. That was actually a scary two weeks.
dmbeaster
@mclaren: Consult a map. Riverside County is not LA. To pretend they are allegedly similar is like pretending Oklahoma is like NY.
dmbeaster
@BruceFromOhio: They have the power to void the conviction provided that certain procedures were followed by the defendant. I am assuming it is a habeus corpus appeal.
dmbeaster
@FlyingToaster: It is considered improper to use voter registration as a basis for the jury pool because it is too small a subset of the general populace. Sad but true.
opiejeanne
@dmbeaster: Good analogy, as well as noticing that they are different counties. We lived in the city of Riverside for 23 years; it grows on you after about five.
i had a discussion with some very RW Christianist ladies from Oregon while we were on a Disney cruise. They were talking about how awful Hollywood is, what with the immorality in the movies and how liberal it was, and since they got into the hot tub I was sharing with Youngest Kid (she was a cast member and this was against the rules) and started up with this line of fine nonsense I was forced to hear a bit of it; Youngest Kid left early because she was offended by them. When one of them said, well, Disneyland was in Hollywood I started laughing. As I got out of the tub because I had had enough of them I informed them that Disneyland isn’t even in Los Angeles county. They were very startled to hear this and started to argue, but I told them that I lived 2 miles from the park and I had it on pretty good authority that the park and my house was well inside Orange County. I suggested they consult a map.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
Factoid: Walt originally wanted to build Disneyland in Burbank near the studios, but even in the 1950s, the land was more expensive than it was in Anaheim, which was still mostly a bunch of orange groves. Plus it wasn’t quite as suitable for his plans since it’s pretty hilly.
He had an apartment built at Disneyland so he could stay overnight and not have to drive back to the Valley — it’s above the firehouse at the front of the park. Sometimes you can get a tour if you either pay enough or know someone.
Emily68
@Tim in SF: I was on a jury once where the guy was being tried for two murders. The trial took all summer. I worked for a big employer who paid me during the time, so I didn’t lose any income. It ended up being one of the most interesting experiences in my life. I’m still pals with some of my fellow jurors.
Jury duty doesn’t work out for everyone, but for me, this time, it did.
opiejeanne
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): sometimes it’s open to the public.
There’s another apartment over Pirates of the Caribbean, but last time I was there it was a gallery to show off the work of ride and park designers, and some Disney-related art.
People, especially bankers thought Walt was nuts. I was 5 when it opened and I remember hearing about how crazy it was, on the news.
Bill D.
@opiejeanne:
In California alone, two counties other than San Bernardino are larger than Riverside in area- Inyo and Kern. Nationally, Riverside is #26 in area.
burnspbesq
The respondent in habeas cases is the person in whose custody the petitioner is held, typically the warden of the particular facility. In the case of the California state prison system, that person is a state employee, and as such the office of the Attorney General is obligated to represent the respondent.
The California AG’s office has over 1,000 lawyers and a caseload that can fairly be described as massive. The Attorney General is a manager, not a lawyer. It would surprise me not even a little bit if Harris was not closely following this case until Kozinski went mental on the bench (if Kozinski wants to do Harris’ job, he should resign from the bench and run for the office) and forced her to pay attention.
She did the right thing.
If the Riverside County DA wants to try the case again, that’s his call. But if he does, he’s a fool, and he should be the subject of a recall election.