WaPo’s David Farenthold on Sen. Rand Paul’s biggest barrier to the Oval Office: Dear Ol’ Dad.
Rand Paul wants to lead the United States. On Saturday in Texas, his father was speaking at a conference about how to leave it.
“A lot of times people think secession, they paint it as an absolute negative,” said former representative Ron Paul (R-Tex.). After all, Paul said, the American Revolution was a kind of secession. “You mean we should have been obedient to the king forever? So it’s all in the way you look at it.”
This weekend was a crucial one for Rand Paul, the Republican senator from Kentucky and undeclared candidate for the presidency. He was in California, trying to line up donors at an opulent retreat organized by the billionaire Koch brothers.
At the same time, his father — retired after 12 terms in Congress and three presidential runs — was in the ballroom of an airport hotel here, the final speaker at “a one-day seminar in breaking away from the central state.” He followed a series of speakers who said that the U.S. economy and political establishment were tottering and that the best response might be for states, counties or even individuals to break away.
“The America we thought we knew, ladies and gentlemen, is a mirage. It’s a memory. It’s a foreign country,” Jeff Deist, Ron Paul’s former press secretary and chief of staff, told the group. “And that’s precisely why we should take secession seriously.”
And this is why I always get a good chuckle when people say “Hey Zandar, your crazy-ass senator might end up as President, right?”
No. Not in a million years. Ron Paul and his merry band of rootin’ tootin’ gold bug Bell Curve dudebro Second Revolution glibertarian dumpster fires will never, ever stop being the Olympus Mons of baggage for Rand Paul’s higher aspirations. He can’t afford to alienate them because his supporters love the little garden gnome, and he can’t afford to have them running around and talking about how great things like secession and Bitcoin and ending the Fed and the Civil Rights Act would be for the next 18 months because stories like this will eventually start becoming a real problem for the donor class.
And that’s on top of Rand’s own ridiculous statements on civil rights and his questionable hiring practices.
Not sure why the guy is even bothering to run.
rikyrah
Because Barack Obama, a Black Man, won the Presidency, they’ve got every clown thinking that they can run. It’s why they push forth that a racist grifting nitwit like Sarah Palin is qualified to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency. It’s why they push a fucking college dropout like Scott Walker as a plausible ANYTHING. Would a Black person, who is a college dropout, be taken seriously for office AT ALL?
I say not.
Nobody will EVER convince me that if Sarah Palin were Black, she wouldn’t have already been laughed off the national stage, never to be heard from again.
They amuse me at the level of nothingness that they now say is ‘qualified’ all because Barack Obama won. They simply will not accept that he is smarter than them all the way around.
They would rather push forth White Mediocrity than validate Black Excellence.
…………………………………………
Four reasons so many Republicans are running in 2016
excerpt:
(3) The Obama Effect: Many conservatives are confounded by the idea that Barack Obama, someone who had so little experience before running, could win. (Remember, he was just a state senator four years before running for president.) Many Republicans wake up and look at themselves in the morning and say, “Hey, if he could do it, why not me?” But that can be a dangerous takeaway from Obama’s election. Catching lightning in a bottle twice is nearly impossible. And the fact is, for as much as conservatives have underestimated him, not everyone is Barack Obama — with his personality, oratory, campaign skills, ability to raise money, and perhaps most importantly, an ahead-of-its time campaign.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/four-reasons-many-republicans-running-2016/
SRW1
Jebus, his dad never had a chance but he proved the validity of the business model, didn’t he!
Money bomb, money bomb!!
MattF
Yeah, Ron Paul is loony, but Ron’s craziness pales beside that of Rafael Cruz. I do wonder sometimes why no one has pushed Senator Cruz a bit on this question.
Couldn't Stand the Weather
You’re preachin’ to the choir on that.
Ayn Rand Paul ought to run, and even make it to the nomination. And, at the first debate, he’ll take it just where OvenMitt3000 took it not too long ago. He rhetorically aim at his foot, fire until his weapon is empty, and then reload. His innate, overweening assholishness will allow no less.
Then, all Hillary (or any other Dem nominee) will have to say is, “Proceed, Senator.”
Off topic…
http://wonkette.com/573807/gop-senate-drops-words-civil-rights-from-subcommittee-about-civil-rights-because-they-get-it
Southern Beale
Speaking of the WaPo, there’s a hilarious op-ed courtesy of the American Enterprise Institute basically advocating death panels. Not making this up. Link at the link.
Mike in NC
Front page article in the local rag today had several ‘experts’ weighing in on the electability of Sen. Lindsey Graham, who seems to have been convinced to run for president next year by his best friend Sen. John McCain.
A few of these experts debated whether or not being a bachelor would have a negative impact on his candidacy, because Americans are said to prefer “First Families”. Our clueless media in action.
srv
And yet y’all keep ranting about the 27% and the clear Republican Majority.
Keep howling in your reality distortion field.
Tommy
I want to agree with you but not so sure. Years ago I drove from Illinois to Flordia with my parents. 2007. A lot of state highways. Byways. Rural areas. There were more signs out for Ron Paul, not his son, then I could shake a stick at. I was confused by it all but it did make me think he has a following larger than I ever realized.
Mike J
More good news about the fail parade: Everybody hates Chris Christie.
The Other Bob
I sure hope so.
Tommy
@Mike in NC: As a 45 year old never married guy. If Lindsey Graham is married or not married is the least of my concerns.
mai naem mobile
Rand Paul runs because somebody has to.continue his daddy’s business which is grifting..Rand Paul’s extended family is supposed to be heavily involved in the fundraising arm of the Ron/Rand Paul Re^olution. I am.convinced the Mittster’s. running because Tagg made.money off it and Tagg made contacts through the campaign to make even more money. I’m guessing there were Romney in laws in on the grifting too.
The Other Bob
@Tommy:
Or there was one crazy guy with a pickup and a ton of signs who drove down I-75 and went nuts.
srv
Real America for Real Americans:
NonyNony
@mai naem mobile:
QFFT.
And if Ron Paul is now advocating secession, that’s a clear indication to me that he’s tapped into a vein of gullible rubes interested in secession and looking for someone to give their money to. It’s probably the same cluster of gullible rubes who have been funding his phony Presidential aspirations all of these years – there’s a subgroup of the folks who natter on about fiat money and flat taxes that are definitely in the “if we can’t have our way we should get our own country” camp.
I wish they’d build their floating Libertopia/Rapture city and go Galt already.
MattF
@Southern Beale: I saw that. My guess is that the Op-Ed piece was sort of preemptive defense against the proposition that killling off O-care will cause deaths among the formerly-insured. I’ll just note that the essay avoided anything quantitative– its argument is that some individual Joe Schmoe may be harmed, but que sera, sera. The fact that thousands of people will be harmed is left unmentioned.
catclub
@The Other Bob: Ron Paul never got more than about 12% in a GOP primary. (Caucuses are another matter.) That is still a lot of people, but not enough to matter.
Morzer
@Mike in NC:
Lindsey Graham can’t even manage an erection without John McCain’s approval, so how anyone thinks he could run for president, God only knows.
cmorenc
Despite ample evidence that pursuit of the infinite (and therefore unreachable) asymptote of peak wingnut is only a relatively modest, and often surmountable obstacle for a GOP candidate to win the party’s nomination for major office (and all too often, the general election) – see Jodi Ernst and Ted Cruz for example – we progressive-minded folks are nevertheless all-too-prone to smugly think it inconceivable that enough of the electorate could succumb to voting for such dangerous fools and charlatans as Rand Paul. That word – “inconceivable” – what familiar, comfortable place have we heard that word used mockingly in a way that should make us very uneasy in our own present situation? Remember the character Vizzini in “Princess Bride”?
Although I would agree that on balance, the odds are not favorable for Rand Paul to win either the nomination or especially the Presidency, it’s not impossible. There are more glibertarian stoners out there than you think, including many who you’d assume would be inclined to be on team progressive until you get into extended political discussions with them.
Southern Beale
@MattF:
It was totally crazy. But let’s remember, the American Enterprise Institute is a Koch vehicle. So the Koch Bros.., who are trying to anoint our next president, basically think death panels are OK. You’d think the media would pick up on that …
OzarkHillbilly
@Tommy: If Lindsey runs, you can guarantee the rumor mill will crank up to eleventy9 that he is gay. Not sure how he allays the base about that.
CONGRATULATIONS!
The GOP will be more than happy to pave the road to the presidency with Rand Paul’s blood, but that’s as close as he’s ever going to get to it.
He really should have waited for the old man to kick first. He might have had a sliver of an chance then. With the old man still around running his fool mouth? No way.
Peale
@Mike in NC: As a gay man, you might think I would be compelled to support the first gay presidential candidate on a major party ticket. Somehow, I think it would be like feeling proud that J. Edgar Hoover and Roy Cohn made it so far.
NonyNony
@Tommy:
Ron Paul’s followers are super-devoted to the cause. They put up signs all over the place, paint their barn roofs and walls with Ron Paul logos, buy the T-shirts and wear them everywhere, get bumperstickers for all of their cars, buy the Ron Paul Commemorative Collectible Plates and Spoons[*], and generally purchase and display all of the Ron Paul merch they can afford (or even if they can’t afford it). They are also very loud an obnoxious people generally who can’t wait to evangelize to you how awesome Ron Paul is and how great it would be if he were President.
Ron’s problem has always been that these are the ONLY people who vote for him. In any given part of the country it always looks like Ron Paul has a HUGE level of support, but when it comes to actual voters voting for him he never gets enough to even be considered a threat by the other primary candidates. Much like Libertarians on the Internet in fact.
[*] Not an actual thing. Well, actually, it is an actual thing but I don’t think it’s officially tied into the Paul campaign in any way.
Morzer
@OzarkHillbilly:
I am sure Lil Lindsey would try and lay the base, but I doubt he’s quite what they are looking for.
Mike in NC
@srv: Obviously Gov. LePage commissioned a study that revealed thousands of Maine’s moochers were using SNAP funds to gorge themselves on lobster.
Almost a bigger scandal than young bucks and T-bone steaks.
OzarkHillbilly
@Morzer: heh.
Turgidson
It’s been obvious from the beginning that Rand believes damn near all the same crazy shit his dad does, but is ambitious and arrogant enough to think he can convince the voters otherwise. Well, he got part of the way there by convincing a surprisingly large percentage of the Village Idiot Brigade of this. But the party’s money men aren’t going to get behind his candidacy, his rivals in the GOP primary will be happy to smear him from Maine to Tijuana with his and his pops’ crazy shit (but only the crazy shit that isn’t part of the GOP platform these days, which limits the crazy shit supply a bit), and if lightning strikes every other viable contender (so we’re talking about half a dozen lightning strikes minimum) and leaves him as the nominee somehow, the Clintons won’t be shy about making him seem like a barking mad freak. And they’ll even have the truth on their side when they do.
Rand has managed to create the illusion of wide appeal among some pockets of the political junkie universe by getting Greenwald and his merry band of douchebros all giddy with his aimless drone talk and such. But that’s really only a few hundred people. I’m pretty sure he’s still about as electable as a raccoon with a case of the gout with the wider electorate.
Morzer
At least Rand Paul has an easy choice of campaign song:
Papa, Don’t Preach!
Belafon
People like Cruz and Paul are like the people who show up at American Idol absolutely believing that singing in the shower proves they can win.
Turgidson
@Mike in NC:
Sadly the idiot media probably has a point about that. But of course, your point is that there are a few million substantive reasons why putting Lindsay Graham within a hundred yards of the nuclear football is a really, really bad idea. And the media won’t cover that, ever.
Morzer
@Turgidson:
I suspect Rand will choose to stay in Kentucky rather than play for all the marbles. I don’t see him risking his paying gig and source of publicity when his odds aren’t great of achieving much of anything.
Buddy H
Re: the American Enterprise Institute:
A few nights ago I was watching news on PBS. There was a story about people with criminal records who can’t find work. The reporter interviewed a woman who was advocating for non-violent offenders having their records scrubbed. The reporter described her group (I can’t remember its name) as “left-leaning.”
Whenever they have someone from the American Enterprise Institute, do they call it “right-leaning”?? I’ve never heard that expression on tv.
NCSteve
Paul is expecting the MSM to give him a pass on all that. And they will.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Buddy H: Never in my memory. It’s always “pro-business” or “the business community”.
Villago Delenda Est
The Paul grifting family needs to be eradicated almost as much as the Bush Crime Family.
sm*t cl*de
even individuals to break away
Ah, the new patriotism. “America, love it by leaving it!”
Is Rand pushing the Freeman fantasy, or simply emigration?
NotMax
Rand Paul is to Ron Paul as Mel Gibson is to Hutton Gibson.
“The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree” is not just a cliché.
Villago Delenda Est
@Tommy: There are plenty of signs along the roads of Oregon during prime election season for the wackaloon R candidates. Art Robinson is really, really big on lots of signs.
However, Oregon remains a deep blue state. The rural areas, where all those signs are at, may give you a false impression that the candidate has some broad popular support. If you look at a map of Oregon’s counties and how they trend, blue or red, it might appear that Oregon is a red state.
The problem is that nearly every last county that goes red is sparsely populated. The three Portland Metro counties, Marion County (where Salem, the state capitol is located), and Lane County (home of Tracktown USA and the Fighting Fashion NIghtmares) are pretty solid and deeply blue, and hold most of the population of the entire state.
Which is why we have two Dem senators, four out of five Dem representatives, a Dem governor and Dem statewide office holders, and a Dem legislature.
srv
The Paul’s have always been ahead of the curve. If liberals want to culturally and socially divide this country, there will be physical ramifications:
Villago Delenda Est
@CONGRATULATIONS!: Mammon worshiping scum, the lot of them.
One wonders if the Easter Islanders had a “EIEI” fucking up their future as they happily logged away that future.
MattF
OT, via jwz.org. Zoe Keating is ‘negotiating’ with Google about her YouTube channel:
http://zoekeating.tumblr.com/post/108898194009/what-should-i-do-about-youtube
OK, some companies are evil. But it seems worse when you promised otherwise, once upon a time.
sharl
@Buddy H: As far as I can tell, the only “scholar” left at AEI who is worthy of that description is Norm Ornstein, who started there way back when AEI actually tried to be an honest think tank (though they were conservative even then). I assume AEI keeps Ornstein on only because of the prestige he brings, and despite his authorship of works that must gall AEI’s sponsors, such as this.
Villago Delenda Est
@NotMax: Ted Cruz’s father is a Dominionist, a follower of the Jeebofascist Rushdoony, who seek to impose a totalitarian Christianist government on the United States.
Saudi Arabia is their role model.
Morzer
@sharl:
I suspect he has images of the paymasters with a goat, Steve King and Cthulhu.
Villago Delenda Est
@Peale: The GOP dumbshits actually believe that everyone buys into identity politics, because their rabid base of cretins does.
Villago Delenda Est
@Southern Beale: Our worthless media is paid very well not to notice that.
Mike in NC
@srv: Trying to picture hedge fund managers running farms is a bit like Mitt Romney changing a light bulb: somebody else gets paid to do it.
Turgidson
@Belafon:
Ha! Win.
I’d be concerned about Cruz if he hadn’t basically pissed off the entire GOP other than the wackjobbiest-of-the-wackjobs. He seems to think the braindead teabaggers alone constitute an electoral majority. As cynical as I am about the wisdom of the electorate, he’s wrong about that, for now at least.
He probably thinks the establishment will reluctantly but firmly get behind him if he somehow steals the nomination by consolidating the wackjob vote and catching the establishment candidate(s) with their pants down early, but I doubt that too. The somewhat-more-rational GOP financiers aren’t that worried about what a possible Hillary Clinton presidency will look like and won’t go out of their way to prop up a knuckledragging asshole who can’t win. They may not abandon him completely like they did Goldwater, but they’d only go all out for him if Liz Warren or someone equally sincere about economic fairness was the Dem nominee.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mike in NC: See: Bush,GW & ranch.
Peale
@srv: They are still frightened by Occupy? Occupy? Oh and that Fergusson matter – I get the concern. I mean, that kind of burn down the neighborhood violence has spread as far as six blocks from there. Otherwise, its been, what? A few traffic delays?
Our fearless sons of the elite—moving to new zealand to escape a traffic jam. Someone should warn them that there may be spiders in their cupboards and shoes. We’ll never see them again.
Chris
If nothing else, he’s right about that.
sm*t cl*de
“I know hedge fund managers all over the world who are buying airstrips and farms in places like New Zealand because they think they need a getaway,” he said.
Ha. We got plenty of airstrips, all the right size if you want to land a top-dressing plane.
Villago Delenda Est
@sm*t cl*de: These guys imagine that they cannot be hunted down and disposed of anywhere on this planet.
Morzer
@Villago Delenda Est:
Saruman thought he could just bug out to the Shire too. Didn’t work out too well for him either.
Turgidson
@Peale:
They’re going to really pee their pants when they get to NZ and realize they’ll be outnumbered 10 to 1 by sheep. That’s not to even mention that there’s rumblings of activity in Mordor again.
Peale
@sm*t cl*de: I think there was an afternoon special once when I was a kid about a family that inherited an Island in Lake Ontario that neither the US nor Canada claimed, so they started their own country. I wonder if that story is the basis of this “America as I have Imagined Her is No More” sentiment. It does seem to be a political philosophy based on afternoon specials and American Gladiator story lines.
Morzer
@Turgidson:
Not to mention the fact that the islands are dominated by the All Blacks!
mclaren
@Villago Delenda Est:
LOL. How about “Death to the mammon-worshiping scum” as the new democratic 2016 presidential campaign slogan…?
Okay, Hillary’s daughter Chelsea is married to one of the main mammon-worshiping scum hedge fund traders at Goldman Sachs. And Chelsea Clinton just bought a 10.5 million dollar townhouse overlooking Madison Square Park, so I guess that won’t work…
Chris
@NonyNony:
Me, too. So many problems solved instantly. But of course it’ll never happen, because all the perks and comforts they love to live with depend completely on the civilization they loathe so much.
You’d think somebody would’ve noticed by now that NONE of our poor oppressed businessmen, groaning under the heel of the lowest tax rates since the 1920s, have ever actually said “screw this, I’m outta here” and retired to a canyon in the desert to live off of their superior genius.
Heck, you could write a small book about that simple fact and its implications for their ideology. What does it mean that our Galtian betters never do this? Could it mean that the value of their superior genius is ridiculously overstated, and that they couldn’t actually fend for themselves for a fucking week without the legions of minimum wage moochers who maintain their empire? Could it mean that they’re not, in fact, oppressed and taxed to death at all in our society, certainly not enough to leave it for anywhere else? Could it just mean that Atlas Shrugged was total gibberish and anyone taking it seriously was a complete moron? Etc.
muddy
@NonyNony: In Vermont mostly all I saw last fall were Republican (or similar) signs. I think the Democratic signs went without saying or something. The loons are the ones to be strident. The sad part was that they were mostly at the shittiest shacks and trailers. Derp.
Some years ago I saw a long row of conservative candidate signs, and there was one in the middle that said, “Genghis Khan”. I got a good laugh out of it as a political statement. Later in the day I drove back past and the good sign was gone. Not a statement, a prank. I couldn’t decide which one was funnier.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Villago Delenda Est: I am sure, if not that exact institution, it was something very similar.
I’m sure most of them were thinking about the Easter Island version of Benghazi as they looked around their freshly denuded island. They all deserved to die, every last one, just as we will when we finally realize their vision on a global scale. Fortunately, I’ll be dead by then.
Belafon
@Chris:
The problem is, they think it once existed.
The Thin Black Duke
@Chris: Yep. I hated Fight Club (pretentious, overwrought, not as smart as it thought it was), but this one exceptional scene still speaks to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWVxI6XZAuE
muddy
I keep thinking about this song. Well okay and I keep playing it. Over and over. Don’t know if it’s the lyrics or the beats but I can dance to this all day.
Pretty prescient pre-Fox content.
KG
America is as much an idea as it is a place on a map. There’s the idea that we aren’t as great as we used to be and that idea competes with the idea that we can be better than we have been. And both compete with the idea that we are the greatest country in the world. Which idea dominates depends on the general mood of the country. Right now, for much of the conservative movement, it’s the idea of a lost America, partly because they’ve lost the last two presidential elections, partly because the culture has changed on a wide variety of issues – gay rights, legalization of weed to name two. Their problem is that the rest of the country isn’t there with them, so there’s a massive disconnect
sm*t cl*de
Saruman thought he could just bug out to the Shire too. Didn’t work out too well for him either.
You bring back memories of an earlier US carpetbagger in NZ.
Shalimar
Mirage and memory, two words that begin with the letter M and don’t in fact mean anything close to the same thing.
Villago Delenda Est
@KG: In this way they’re not far removed from another right-wing political movement that was in its infancy about 95 years ago in central Europe. The imaginary lost greatness that must be restored, the decadent and depraved elites who hold us back from the restoration of greatness, the pollution of our social body with impurities that are easily identified by hooked noses (or over-melaninized skin).
Shalimar
@NonyNony: They built their randian paradise in Chile, but they can’t go galt because of course it turned out to be a real estate scam for naive suckers.
Bobby B.
It must have been said here before: check out the comment section of a “Reason” article. Or Nick Gillespie’s Fonz jacket.
southend
@NonyNony: @srv: And as soon as a Rebublican (preferably a white dude) is back in the White House, they’ll promptly stop all the “secession” BS, turn on a fkn dime and loudly trumpet that ‘murrica is the greatest, bestest ever and if you don’t love it leave it.
Villago Delenda Est
@Chris: All that needs to be said about “Going Galt”
jl
I had Cole level insomnia over the weekend, so wrote out a list of potential GOP primary candidates and some fearless predictions during the endless nights. I got up to 15, but in the morning news I read about Fiorina appearing at the Iowa crazy-fest and talking like she is interested.
Is Fiorina interested?
I can’t quit Lil’ Newtie. I just don’t see how a GOP primary campaign is complete without Lil’ Newtie. And who among the current crop will produce campaign spots with the profound artistry of Herman Cain?
Wikipedia says 2012 had 17 who appeared in at least one debate or primary election if I am counting correctly.
If Fiornia will be in, that makes 16, and Lil’ Newtie will jump in, I just know it, that is 17; So, only 33 more and we will get to my prediction of 50 GOPers on the stage at the first debate.
Can’t wait!!!
I like that Jeb made his candidacy semi-official at an auto-dealer conference. Who says he has no identity? Big Dawg is correct, Jeb(!) is he real threat, or maybe not, I dunno.
Edit: Wikipedia reminds me of some obscure strange people (like the ‘rent is too damn high’ guy) who I forgot about and the media did not cover at all until they popped up on a debate stage. So, there must be some of them this cycle. So, probably more than 20 will be in at the beginning, if there are 15 or 16 ‘serious’ potential candidates covered by the press.
drkrick
@Mike in NC:
Clueless my ass. It’s gay-shaming in a barely deniable form. They know what they’re saying.
Frankensteinbeck
@Villago Delenda Est:
Our worthless media doesn’t have to be paid not to notice that. THEY can afford all the medical care they need, so until it becomes a political issue their buddies at the DC backyard barbecues can use against the president, who cares?
fuckwit
@Southern Beale: We already have death panels in this country. It’s called “the market”. This is America: when you are poor you are euthanized, in the slowest and most painful method possible (it can take years or even decades!).
Happily, Obamacare has limited and may eventually eliminate the power of those death panels.
Southern Beale
@fuckwit:
But but but but INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY justifies it all!
Another Holocene Human
@rikyrah:
Too true. Plus they think women are soft-headed ninnies as well.
Even lefties are guilty of whitesplaining shit to Obama he is demonstrably better at than they are. (Like, idk, politics. And moving the Overton window, such as it is.)
And thanks to his color and certain Americans’ reaction to it, he has to do all that with his hands tied behind his back.
Now, now, Walker is bought and paid for by the Koch Bros. Like Santorum with his personal billionaire, Walker is their creature and if they will it, he will run.
Remember, Forbes ran for preznint. Nobody voted for him, but he ran.
Another Holocene Human
Bill Gates dropped out of college too.
It’s okay for a white male to have dropped out of college …
(Never gone is suspicious, though, too much stench of the poors.)
Southern Beale
Oh, they’ll just write it off to the “Crazy Uncle.” Jimmy Carter had Billy, Bill Clinton had his penis, Barack Obama had BLACKETY BLACK BLACK BLACK ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE …
You know, IOKIYAR. They’ll make some excuse. They always do.
Another Holocene Human
@rikyrah:
Right! It was nothing, except for his personality, speaking skills, campaign chops, ability to raise money (oh. that.), and the fact that he ran a ground-breaking campaign.
Any idiot could win!
Southern Beale
Why the FUCK am I in moderation.?
Another Holocene Human
@Southern Beale: I thought they were advocating for end of life directives, which would be shocking, but it was more of the thing where Ron Paul’s aide had no health insurance and died young and that’s just the way things ought to be. eta: so just disgusting
the Conster
I’m going to go way out on a limb here and say that by “our” he means “my”, and by “we”, he means “you”.
Another Holocene Human
@Tommy: Tommy, got news for you, those signs were EVERYWHERE and the Ronulans were raging online as well.
When the votes came in, they got an embarrassingly low percentage.
Being visible !== getting votes
Jay C
Ever wonder why it is that right-wingers in general (especially the ones who hide behind the “libertarian” figleaf) are so fond of spouting nostalgic generalities like this, without ever actually articulating precisely what sort of ideal “America” it is that they so sorely seem to miss?
Personally, I think I know the answer (something like fascism – without uniforms) ; so it’s no surprise that they would want to dissemble….
jharp
@Another Holocene Human:
“Bill Gates dropped out of college too.”
Not to suckle off the gov’t teat.
And any Northeasterners out there please be safe.
Looks like you are going to get clobbered.
Good luck. You have my sympathy.
jl
@Southern Beale:
” Speaking of the WaPo, there’s a hilarious op-ed courtesy of the American Enterprise Institute basically advocating death panels. Not making this up. Link at the link. ”
Good lord, what an asinine editorial. The WaPo printed that nonsense?
It misrepresents statistical-value-of-life estimates. Government agencies use estimates in the 5 to 10 million $ range because those estimates are consistent with estimates individuals give in surveys and that they imply by their economic behavior. The government estimates are a bit higher on average for project evaluation than estimates from individuals, because public and private projects often involve involuntary trade-offs, and people put a higher valuation on their lives if they are forced to make a trade-off, rather than having a choice about it.
The article seems to misunderstand how to use the statistical-value-of-life estimates: they are not valid for many medical decisions where the base mortality rate and changes in probability of death due to medical decisions are orders of magnitude higher than average person faces in everyday life an on the job.
The article makes some false statements about how insurance works with moral hazard and adverse selection.
But, hey, the piece has one nugget of truth: trade-offs have to be made. And if the reactionaries want to be open about letting profit making health care and a chaotic dysfunctional market place have all the power about making the life and death trade-offs that they like, I say, go ahead. See how that works out for them. I predict that approach will not work out well at all with the public.
jl
@Jay C: I like that Ron Paul followed up the nostalgic fantasy mongering with musing about secession. Would be sad for Rand if his dad decides to let his freak flag fly in retirement. Would make holding the Paul brigade together, without alienating the sane people, impossible.
The glibeterian dream of paradise was just that close, and the old man goes nuts, ruining it all! Who will be next savior?
Another Holocene Human
@OzarkHillbilly: Who cares.
He wants to start a bunch of new foreign wars. And that’s the dope on Lindsay.
Another Holocene Human
@jharp: If the GOP cared about that, why do they make heroes out of Bachmann, Ernst, Ryan, and their whole rogues’ gallery of always-were-legislators (Marco Rubio, anyone) and pulls-down-farm-subsidies?
THEIR never held a real job is a “servant’s heart” as Palin put it and THEIR welfare is the only good welfare.
Another Holocene Human
@jl: Aqua Buddha is good at fooling some of the people some of the time. He is, however, running out of time.
jharp
@Another Holocene Human:
Agree that Republicans would nominate Hitler if they thought he could beat Hillary.
And that storm looks like a real doozy. 75 MPH winds and more than 2 feet of snow? Yikes.
Anyone out there in it’s path?
jl
@Mike in NC:
” A few of these experts debated whether or not being a bachelor would have a negative impact on [Grahams] candidacy, because Americans are said to prefer “First Families”. Our clueless media in action. ”
McCain and Graham are intellectual and spiritual twins separated at birth, and miraculously reunited in Congress. Is that inspirational family story not enough?
Another Holocene Human
@Jay C: It’s truer words, as the America “they thought they knew” always was a big fat fantasy, like the entire executive performance during the Reagan years, man I knew some people who fell for that bit.
It’s like that horrid song they love so much “proud to be an American/where at least I know I’m free”.
Free from what? Disease? Debt? Obligations? Hardly.
Free to make your own medical decisions? Free to roll a blunt? Free to worship as you choose without getting firebombed? Free to move into a white neighborhood without your house getting vandalized? Free to walk away from an officer of the law without getting beaten or shot? Free to donate to the political candidate of your choice without getting fired? Free to spend your evening at home with your family and leave the phone ringer off and still be able to make your rent?
Oh, free to be a racist asshat? Yeah, I guess you’re free to do that. Woo, USA! USA!
boatboy_srq
@Tommy: This is why Citizens United was such an important case for them. Paulbots thought buying billboards = generating votes, which didn’t work quite as planned. Much more effective to buy the pol than the publicity, and Citizens United essentially made buying pols not only possible but legally defensible as Free Speech™.
rikyrah
Z,
ICAM with you about the racist grifting clan known as The Pauls.
Gin & Tonic
@jharp: The area I’m in is not the worst predicted for winds and coastal flooding, but definitely among the highest snow accumulations. Right now it’s snowing very lightly.
The real problem will be not the snow – you can plow that – but the flooding and erosion of east-facing coastal areas, as the strongest part of the storm appears as if it will coincide with tomorrow morning’s high tide. Houses will be washed into the sea, that’s pretty much guaranteed.
Tree With Water
Dear old dad is less the problem for Rand than the vast tundra that separates his ears.
jl
@Another Holocene Human:
” It’s truer words, as the America “they thought they knew” always was a big fat fantasy, ”
Their America of yore is not a fantasy, the public face they put on it is a fantasy, but I think what they yearn for in their heads and hearts is not a fantasy. They cannot speak that reality however, and the fantasy element is not what is apparent in the words.
America was a place where a certain class (rich and elite white guys) controlled pretty much everything and did what they wanted, and were ruthless in maintaining that control. These people fantasize about the good old days when they would be rich and elite (and white!). That is the real fantasy.
The poor things. The vast majority of them would not be rich or elite. And many of them would be excluded from the rich and elite because they would not even have been considered ‘white’ back then, even if they are now. They might not be so bigoted if they understood the recent vintage of their entry into the ‘respectable’ race and ethnicity.
So, there is a sad reality they yearn for, and an ugly private fantasy hiding behind the pretty facade of the publicly spoken fantasy.
jl
@Tree With Water:
‘ Dear old dad is less the problem for Rand than the vast tundra that separates his ears. ‘
Hey, I’ve spent time in the tundra. That is an insult to tundra. In Rand’s dreams, there is as much between his ears! Actually, having that much between his ears is beyond his dreams.
Gin & Tonic
@efgoldman: Howdy, neighbor!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
McCain made an effort at a joke about Lindsey being his long lost illegitimate son, which must have been so painful for Tom Brokaw and the legions of other Villagers who have made the demented old coot their magical war hero surrogate daddy.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@jharp: Without their massive Federal government contracts – won by the best lobbying Bill Gates, Jr. and his daddy could buy – and the resultant monopoly hold on US Government computing systems, Microsoft would be a two-bit operation working out a storefront in New Mexico somewhere.
Microsoft was built on taxpayer dollars and subsidies and anyone who even pretends otherwise is a fucking liar.
Another Holocene Human
@jl: Ah, but that is only for the insiders. For the rubes, it always was and always will be pure fantasy. A very narcissistic, piggish fantasy. Magical thinking with a touch of “I can be better than YOU, now excuse me while I sniff my own farts”.
Like that cult that talks about the elect and the elect are numbered and the membership vastly exceeds those numbers … rubes, rubes, rubes.
jharp
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
“Microsoft was built on taxpayer dollars and subsidies”
Did not know of that.
I was aware of them using their monopoly power to fuck over consumers though.
Another Holocene Human
@CONGRATULATIONS!: I think the point is that he free market ripped off a bunch of people before he got to that point. Of course once he did, yeah, my mind flashed to those USN contracts and all of that crap. Oh he surely did enrich himself at the expense of the US gov’t as well as state and local gov’ts.
Another Holocene Human
Why do we call them rubes? Rubor, red, like a red head? Or does it mean a carbuncle, an inflamed pustule?
I’m sure the actual reason is less exciting.
Another Holocene Human
@Southern Beale: You used the forbidden p-word.
You could be selling boehner pills with that word. FYWP is just protecting you from yourself.
jharp
@Gin & Tonic:
“the flooding and erosion of east-facing coastal areas, as the strongest part of the storm appears as if it will coincide with tomorrow morning’s high tide. Houses will be washed into the sea, that’s pretty much guaranteed.”
Egads!
And winds reaching 75 MPH?
Be safe.
Another Holocene Human
@drkrick: Corey [name-redacted] catches some of this, too, because ya just can’t trust a man who won’t settle down (in a loveless marriage of convenience to the daughter of his biggest donor).
Another Holocene Human
@Another Holocene Human: Although you’re right, GLBT people like myself hear ourselves when they start dog-whistling about Senator Ex Machina’s personal life.
jl
@Another Holocene Human: If the cult you mean is the Jehovah’s Witnesses, I think you are a little unfair to them. They are more in touch with reality, and their fantasies are far more humane and understandable than the racist, classist, glibertarian bunch. I would go with the Witnesses if I had a choice.
If you are Witness, you get a little cut of second rate heaven even if you are not part of the lucky 144 K.
Another Holocene Human
@Villago Delenda Est: Speak it. Tell it. They are the fascist party and we are damned fools if we treat them as anything otherwise.
Another Holocene Human
@jl: Not racist? How about all of those families of the original core group asserting that they are the elect and that the West Indian converts, of which there are many, will not have a room in Our Father’s house?
Sure, no racist subtext there.
eta: like, I actually used to think better of them. back when they were most famous for getting into legal trouble for refusing to salute flags whether Nazi or American
and before I got older and wiser and realized the medical restrictions are only for the women and children…
Roger Moore
@jl:
I’m not sure about that. I think a lot of what they’re yearning for is what they remember life being like when they were kids. That includes both the real changes in the way the world is and the change in perspective that comes from growing up. They want that nicer, simpler, cleaner time without acknowledging that most of the nice, simple, and clean was in their own inability to grasp the world as it was.
jl
@Another Holocene Human: If I were forced to choose between those two very bad choices, I would still go with the Witnesses.
Villago Delenda Est
@Jay C: The uniform aspect of fascism is a cultural thing, particularly in Germany, where even coal miners had formal uniforms for events outside the mines, such as ceremonies, social gatherings, etc. Germans were REALLY big on uniforms up through 1945, when they kind of fell out of favor for reasons. As did flag fetishism.
jl
@Roger Moore:There is some truth to what you say. But I think that more innocent fantasy slides into what I was talking about pretty quickly.
Most of them were kids from 50s through the 80s before the Reagan revolution cuts fully took effect, and their fantasy world was built on high marginal tax rates, truly massive fiscal stimulus of GI Bill and post-WWII infrastructure projects. The time when their kind got some of the goodies.
Kids with memories only back to the 90s and oughts did not get the goodies, and I think much less likely to be glibertarians. Even white middle class kids saw glimpses of the other side, and when they think of class solidarity, they do not automatically think of being rich and elite white guys, or their flunkies who can finagle some of the cut for themselves.
Gin & Tonic
@efgoldman: Probably true. I didn’t live here in ’78, but I remember houses washing into the sea in the Halloween nor’easter in ’91 (the basis for the Perfect Storm book/movie, for those not from the area.) Maybe those were the rebuilt ’78 houses.
What year was the storm that cut through the Chatham beach? That was pretty recent, and I read they’re predicting similar events tomorrow.
Villago Delenda Est
@drkrick: The American President had an interesting take on this. The President (played by Michael Douglas) is a widower, and he becomes infatuated with a woman who happens to be a professional gun for hire lobbyist. Turns out the attraction is mutual, once the lobbyist (the ever charming and delicious Annette Bening) gets past “zomg it’s the President” to “hey, this guy with the important job is pretty nice”.
The media of course has a field day with this, and the usual suspects are aghast that this woman spent the night at the White House doing who knows what with a man with a daughter in the same building. While the party of the President isn’t explicitly mentioned, it’s obvious he’s a Dem, because his principle political adversary does everything we expect from a Rethug, and Richard Dreyfuss gets to overact in ways that compare favorably with the real life schtick of such sacks of waste from a pig farm as Gramps McCain and Huckleberry Graham.
Chris
@Villago Delenda Est:
Yeah. Only, “American Exceptionalism” means it’s okay in our case, because OUR imaginary past was amazing and wonderful so it’s okay that we look to our past like that. Everyone else’s past sucked, but our Founding Fathers breathed into our nation the one perfect system ordained by Jesus. Really.
Shazza
@rikyrah:
They would rather push forth White Mediocrity than validate Black Excellence.
This applies to SO MANY things and never a truer word was spoken.
Chris
@Villago Delenda Est:
Ja, indeed.
I think it was Orwell who said that Oswald Mosley’s fascist movement would have gone a lot farther if it had simply worn something stereotypically British like bowler hats and umbrellas instead of dressing like a self-parody of the German movement. Point being that successful fascism has to tailor itself to the culture it’s trying to take over, since the whole point is to appeal to the public’s crudest tribal instincts.
Chris
@jl:
Certainly true in my case.
Tree With Water
@jl: Your right. I once sailed up the Cook Inlet in deep winter at sunset. As far as I could see, the barren snowscape turned the colors of the sunset, shifting hues as the sun went down. I stand corrected, and withdraw the characterization. I’ll instead take a page from everyone’s favorite columnist David Brooks, and refer to the area between Paul’s ears as comprising “vast spaces for entertaining”.
jl
@Tree With Water: I think we can agree that there are many quiet back rooms between his ears.
Roger Moore
@jl:
I think there’s a real mix between the nostalgia and the wanting to turn things back to when The Right Kind of People were in charge. A huge part of it, of course, is that there’s no clear-cut boundary between the two; part of the reason for their fond memories of their childhoods is because they were children of privilege, even if it was only the privilege of being white. And it’s disturbing the extent to which their memories selectively edit out much of what made that era possible, e.g. high tax rates, large scale public investment in infrastructure and education, protectionist trade barriers, etc.
samiam
I cannot even begin to tell you how lame I think it is that you actually did a Rand Paul for prez. post even if just to fill space by making fun of it.
What’s her face was right on her post yesterday (?) that ball juice spends too much time obsessing over what the idiot right is up to and not enough about what the rational left is up to.
rikyrah
@Roger Moore:
that’s why I call it the delusional world of Mad Men.
cause their ‘good old days’, were the days of American Apartheid to me.
Debbie(aussie)
@srv: Of course the people of NZ just love the super rich, so they will be completely safe, or maybe they plan on chucking everyone out. The Māori might have something to say about that.
Ben Cisco
Pitifully late to a now dead thread, but this:
PURE. GOLD.
Also, awesome band name.
Bobby Thomson
Signs don’t vote.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Like his dad did – for the money. They know they won’t get the nomination or elected, but they will raise quite a pile of cash doing it.