Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders says he’ll make a decision by March on whether or not he wants to challenge for the Dem nomination in 2016.
Vermont independent Sen. Bernie Sanders says he’ll decide by March whether to launch a 2016 presidential campaign and, if so, whether he’ll seek the Democratic nomination. Either way, Sanders says he wouldn’t run just to nudge the debate to the left.
“I don’t want to do it unless I can do it well,” he told The Associated Press. “I don’t want to do it unless we can win this thing.”
That makes me think he won’t pull a Nader and run as a third party, if he runs, he’ll go after the Dem nomination.
Open thread otherwise.
chrome agnomen
well, he would certainly move the dialogue left, and for that reason alone more than welcome.
Villago Delenda Est
“Pulling a Nader” is essentally the brain-dead strategy of the German Communists, who used to say “Nach Hitler, Uns” as they fled to the Soviet Union to avoid the KZ.
raven
Good bit of traffic, especially from Charlotte on but we made it in good time and now for wall-to-wall football!
Adam
Can’t wait to see the debates between him and Hilary. Two sane intelligent people debate public policy the way it’s supposed to be debated, verse the clown car clusterfuck of the other side. Not even sure how the beltway will be able to polish that turd, though I’m sure they’ll try.
Amir Khalid
Barack Obama wasn’t all that well known when he announced his run in early 2007, as I recall. I know Bernie Sanders isn’t anywhere near as charismatic, let alone as historic, but what do his chances of nomination look like?
rikyrah
Father’s reaction to Christmas gift will move you to tears
Madison, AL — An Alabama father was moved to tears by his Christmas gift from his family. In a video posted on Vimeo, Bill Garrett can be seen opening his present in front of his wife and kids.
Much to his confusion he opens the gift to find a bowl of sugar. His wife then asks, “What is it?” Garrett responds, “Sugar.” He’s wife then asked, “Well what’s it in?”
He responds, “a bowl.” He then sees the tickets inside the box. The Alabama alum is so overwhelmed with joy that he is left speechless by the tickets to the 2015 Sugar Bowl game
http://thegrio.com/2014/12/27/fathers-reaction-to-christmas-gift-will-move-you-to-tears/
burnspbesq
I love Bernie. He deserves to be remembered as something more than Kucinich 2.0.
raven
@rikyrah: Unless you fucking hate Bama
rikyrah
Go Bernie. I want to see him take the issues to Hillary.
Corner Stone
@Amir Khalid:
Well, he has about the same chance of getting the D nom as he does the R nom.
Schlemazel
@Amir Khalid:
Astoundingly similar to your chances of pushing an ice cube across death valley with your nose, in August.
Bernie has called himself a socialist, in the current zombie world of US politics that is the equivalent of naming yourself Stalin-Hitler-Babyeater. The media would never allow a discussion of the merits of his proposals and the party officials would wet themselves in fear while they made sure he was marginalized as much as possible to keep “the stain” off of the Democrat Party.
Liberals have no chance and no choice in most of America for now we have to hope and pray for less crazy, not for sane. We have to hang on until the wheel turns & people realize they have been slitting their own throats for the benefit of the .1%.
Kay
@Amir Khalid:
Sander’s main message isn’t “liberal” it’s broader than that. It’s small “d” democratic:
I think the corruption/capture idea could be really potent by 2016 but a lot of people disagree with me. I obviously want it to be because it genuinely concerns me, so maybe I’m overstating it. Anyway, he’ll be the only candidate really taking it on straight. I hope he runs. I’m curious as hell to see if I’m right about that.
Tree With Water
The Supreme Court insured the ease with which elections can be poisoned, and common sense dictates aristocrats like the Koch’s will play all the angles. So I wonder which democrats the Koch’s (et.al.) have pondered backing as a third party candidate? It wouldn’t be Sanders, of course, but a blue dog type. Then again, Hillary is essentially a blue dog. Perhaps tactically it would make better sense for the Koch’s (et.al.) to back an un-blu dog, just to raise hell among democrats. One thing is certain- any electoral tactic that can be employed to harm the democratic rank and file is on the table.
burnspbesq
Diabolical Bowl (Blue vs. Sun) coming up. Go Blue!
Also Louisville vs. Kentucky basketball. ACC! ACC!
Baud
I like Bernie. I also don’t think he’d run third party.
Bob In Portland
If it’s a crime to hack Sony, wouldn’t it be a crime to hack North Korea? Wouldn’t that mean that the FBI should be looking to see if someone in the US did this?
David Koch
I like Bernie.
But it’s hilarious how the usual suspects on the blogosphere believe college kids will flock to the 75 year old, bald Brooklynite and sweep him to the nomination.
The blogosphere was supposed to be a reality based community, but nevertheless they’ve always teetered between utopianism and self delusion.
Just Some Fuckhead
Hopefully, Bernie Sanders won’t stop us from electing a center right President captive to moneyed interests.
Tommy
My Ballon Juice calendars just arrived. They are stunning. Got one for myself, my brother and his wife, and my parents.
I kind of assumed there would be one pic for each month. In fact there are many. I like that format, more stuff to look at.
Oh and although the dogs are represented, my gosh we are a pootie site. Pretty sure, and no I didn’t count, cats outnumber the dogs about 3 to 1, which as a cat guy myself, I don’t have a problem with :)!
Hats off to all the people that submitted pics and the folks here that put it together. Not the easiest thing to do. Said as a dude that worked 15+ years at ad agencies where I had an entire print production departments to handle, well printing.
MattF
I like Sanders and generally agree with him, but… running for President without damaging Clinton’s prospects would be hard, if not impossible. It’s too bad, but it’s where we are.
Amir Khalid
@Bob In Portland:
Right now, there is as much evidence that the US hacked North Korea’s internet access as there is that North Korea hacked Sony. So let’s hold off on the finger-pointing for now, okay?
(Not that I expect you to listen.)
Kay
@David Koch:
Do they believe that? I don’t believe that. I agree with him that people don’t run unless they think they can win. I think one has to convince oneself they can win or they won’t enter what is a hard, long grind. If he runs he will be “in it to win it” no matter how much of a long shot that seems to anyone. It’s essential, unless it’s grifterism, and he’s not a grifter.
catclub
@Adam:
interrupted by the journalist/moderator who wants to ask provocative questions and get juicy quotes from the answers.
Villago Delenda Est
@Tree With Water:
Please. The Kochs are fucking peasants made “noble” by dint of money…which was a traditional way for some to get their seats in the House of Lords…toss enough lucre at the monarch to get some letters patent issued.
There is nothing aristocratic at all about buying your way into an aristocracy. The Kochs are aristocrat wannabees…precisely the people that Jefferson was targeting with the estate tax.
gogol's wife
@Amir Khalid:
Zilch.
Villago Delenda Est
@Amir Khalid: As far as Gospodin Romanov is concerned, the Rodina can do no wrong.
Kay
@MattF:
Why do you think that? It gives Republicans an advantage to have a primary with all those governors and such and Democrats will be doing what all those months? Listening to Clinton give stump speeches? At this point she doesn’t even have anyone to debate on the D side.
catclub
@David Koch:
They flock to Ron Paul. But the sweep to nomination bit does not happen, agreed on that part.
Corner Stone
@MattF:
He would have little to no impact on an HRC run, or message. I hope he does run. Let’s talk about what he wants to talk about.
Tommy
Berine is a stud IMHO but I don’t think he will run. Outside of the state I live in and/or near I follow the politics of Vermont more than any other state. I am not an expert on the state, but it seems to me they get shit right about ten years before the rest of the nation. Same sex marriage, all over that, what like 13 years ago. A single payer health care system, or something better than the ACA. Yeah they did that. When they do these things you hear “oh those hippie liberals in Vermont.”
Then years later the entire nation is like “heck that is a good idea, lets do that.”
Bob In Portland
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
Got my hand on my heart.
I’m doing my part.
It’s just a small war
but at least it’s a start.
Baud
@Tommy:
No, they didn’t.
Bob In Portland
@Amir Khalid: So we wait until the FBI investigates? Yes, and until the cops who choked that man to death get prosecuted. Yes, exactly. Sit and wait. There must be a moral force that will do what we’re waiting to be done for us.
How long do we wait? A month? A year? A lifetime?
Tommy
@Baud: What do you mean?
Amir Khalid
@Bob In Portland:
Rolls eyes.
David Koch
@Kay: not true. people run all the time knowing they won’t win.
but what is more important isn’t his self conviction, rather it’s his resources and electoral strategy.
organization >>>> just words
Baud
@Tommy:
Vermont doesn’t have a single payer health care system. They tried, but recently gave up on it.
MattF
@Kay: Yes, but– I think you’re underestimating the venom that Hillary will engender among the wingers.. In the unlikely event that issues are actually debated in 2016, then maybe. Otherwise, let the wingers fight and poison one another.
Tree With Water
@MattF: That’s as good a case for Bernie to run as you’ll likely hear. Hillary Clinton remains unrepentant about her calamitous 2003 decision to support the Bush-Cheney big lie war. You people who excuse that rude truth away and think her fit for that office- much less the leadership of the democratic party- are kidding yourselves.
Violet
@Kay: Agreed. Hillary needs challengers. It will make her a better candidate or out her as not ready for the big game. If we’re all worried about Bernie Sanders ruining her chances, she’s not strong enough to begin with. I’m all for a robust primary on the Dem side.
Tommy
You know you have too many bowl games when you can’t even fill the seats. They just did an aerial flyover of the Duke vs. ASU game. Looked like not even half the seats were filled. I am not a big fan of Duke but you’d think they’d “travel” well and fill up the seats.
Baud
@Tree With Water:
She said she was wrong in her book.
raven
@Tommy: What’s the difference? These games have nothing to do with attendance.
Tommy
@Baud: I agree. We are talking past each other. They put in a system for children that got something like 98% of them covered. They were trying to go to a single payer system and couldn’t get there.
Corner Stone
@Tree With Water:
The only politician who will ever pay a price for that vote.
Corner Stone
@Tommy:
Why? They have almost no population and no relevance on any larger stage.
Bob In Portland
Ministry of Truth.
Well, not every country can afford a New York Times.
Violet
@Tommy: @Baud: It was recently in the news. Vermont can’t get their state government to pass whatever they need to pay for the single-payer health care. So they’ve decided to give up on it. It’s expensive and they’d have to raise taxes a lot and the representatives don’t want to vote for that, even though it would probably cut costs in the long term.
Yatsuno
@Violet: She also needs challengers so maybe the message of income inequality will start sinking into dead brainpans here. That maybe ACA is a start & not an endgame. That maybe we need to start taxing the very wealthy more because right now THAT’S WHERE THE MONEY IS. And yes the tax code needs simplifying to eliminate some of the huge corporate abuses, and that can be tied to an overall lowering of the corporate tax rate. And maybe, just maybe, government isn’t the problem people think it is.
Baud
@Violet:
I agree. Besides, I think someone will run to her right, so it will be good if someone else runs to her left.
Kay
@MattF:
Democrats are going to have to do something. I listened to John Kasich’s state speech the other day (online). He sounds like a Right-leaning Democrat. He’ll be the Right leaning Democrat who cuts taxes. That message is unbeatable. It’s basically “I’ll provide everything the conservative Democrat does except no one has to pay for any of it”.
Tommy
@raven: I just don’t get it. I get the LSU Alumni email. We’re sending 50 buses to the LSU/Notre Dame game. And that is just through their promotion. We bought every ticket they had for us and wanted more. How you have a nearly empty stadium is beyond me.
Violet
@Corner Stone: Yeah, that is curious. It seems more relevant to follow California politics. They are the political trend setters for the nation in a lot of ways. And because they’re so big, when they pass something it has more of a tendency to affect the rest of the country.
MattF
@Kay: Yeah, I saw Kasich touted as the new leading dark horse. I admit to being suspicious of anyone who looks in the mirror and sees the Leader Of The Free World.
Amir Khalid
@Kay:
I tend to agree with you. I’m not sure if nudging the debate to the left is a good enough reason for Sanders to run, given the poor odds people here are giving him. From what I know of American politics, the debate won’t stay nudged that way for very long at all.
Bob In Portland
@Amir Khalid: Zaharie Shah, Anwar Ibrahim. Muslim Brotherhood. International Institute of Islamic Thought. Operation Green Quest.
We can wait on that one, too. Right? If you keep your eyes rolling you won’t have to focus.
raven
@Tommy: Um, first of all Duke is tiny and a million miles from El Paso. The Sun Bowl is rarely sold out and, like many of the bowls, it’s for TV. It looks like the Hokies out a decent crowd in the Military Bowl but there are tons of Virginia Tech people in that area. The Illini and LA Tech only had 31,000 in the Cotton Bowl yesterday but the ratings even the stinkiest bowl get are still well worth it for ESPN especially.
Tommy
@Corner Stone: Well my best friend in grad school was from Vermont. His mom a State Senator. That started it. But you seem to not note what I said at the end of my comment. That often Vermont does something everybody laughs at. Then a decade or so later the nation as a whole adopt said approach.
David Koch
@catclub:in the 2008 NH primary Paul received 12.9% of young voters. Obummer netted 60% of young voters.
The strength of Paul’s appeal to young voters is a media myth, not supported by the numbers.
Corner Stone
@Baud:
Let’s face it, there’s not much room to run to her right and still say you’re a D. Cuomo isn’t credible. Who else? Webb? Tester? That douche Schweitzer?
None of those guys have a Bernie’s chance in Hell.
gene108
@Tommy:
Duke probably did travel well, but there’s only so much you can do to mask the fact you are a smallish* private school and do not have the alumni base to fill up a big football stadium, compared to the large state schools that have 30k to 50k student bodies.
*I think undergrad enrollment is about 5-6k, with grad school enrollment about the same or maybe a bit higher.
Kryptik, A Man Without a Country
Regarding the ‘symbolic display’ at the NYPD funeral earlier, all I can say is that it is a fantastic display of petulance masquerading as principle.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Amir Khalid:
I find it far more plausible that pissed-off script kiddies hacked NK than that either NK or script kiddies hacked Sony. It still seems most likely the work of an ex-employee trying to cover their tracks by blaming NK.
Kay
@MattF:
He’s oddly inarticulate so that might hurt him. He can’t talk. I think he’s taking some kind of training because his delivery is better but it might be a vocabulary issue. He doesn’t seem to have a lot of words to choose from.
Baud
@Corner Stone:
I don’t have a name. Maybe Cuomo, although I agree with you on his chances. Maybe they get Evan Bayh out of retirement. But especially if there is absolutely no one else running against Hillary, I think someone runs to her right.
Corner Stone
@Amir Khalid:
John Edwards had a moment of traction with his “Two Americas” message. That forced the other contenders to lurch that way for a few weeks. Even though John Edwards was a phony and anyone with an eyeball realized that in real time. That topic or message is still one that resonated for a time, and needs to be addressed now more than ever in modern society.
So there can be some good done by airing out a different perspective.
David Koch
@Violet:
So am I. But Bernie isn’t robust.
Mike J
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini):
Whoever hacked Sony, they were script kiddies. Whether they worked for the norks or were on the inside, it was very crude, but still effective.
jon
I want Democrats to run even if they don’t have a great shot at it. The nation needs to see some debates where ideas are put forth and different choices emerge for how to deal with the world of today. If it’s just Hillary, then the Republicans will get their ideas and their attacks early, and the nonsense can stick. I want some candidates! I’ll still probably end up with Hillary, but wouldn’t it be nice if it could be a campaign where many people see what the Democrats have to offer in opposition to the Republicans and in favor of the country?
Plus, there’s always the factor that Hillary is a health scare away from the Democrats maybe needing someone else in there. Who could it be? Warren could step in quite well, of course, but it’s better to have a big slate than an empty one and accusations of backroom deals and such.
Corner Stone
@Tommy:
That’s pretty interesting, I guess. And I didn’t fail to note what you said at the end, I just consider it irrelevant. VT has a pop of under 700K. It doesn’t matter if they start using cold fusion for state sponsored energy, no one is going to give a shit what they do. I feel fairly confident that same sex marriage and ACA adoption have almost nothing to do with any decisions VT has made over the decades.
Tommy
@gene108: I have to ask this question. Have you ever went to a school where Duke came to town to play? I get they are not a school with 35,000 students. But they always fill the stands.
Bob In Portland
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): But on Facebook I see posts about with a picture of Obama smirking with references to the attack on North Korea. There have probably also been schadenfreude-dripping posts here celebrating North Korea being attacked.
So forget about who did it for now. What is the result? It seems to me that the result is a justification for the NSA, CIA et al law-breaking on the internet. What was the one launched against Iran? Stuxnet? Seems to me it appears that there is another arena where the government can now break the law, this time with neo-liberals supporting it.
Or waiting.
Baud
@David Koch:
Technically, he not even a Democrat yet.
Corner Stone
@Kryptik, A Man Without a Country:
In a just world, when those cops turned their back there would have been a mother of a minority child waiting for them to face them and then slapped them right across the fucking face.
Fuck those fucking assholes.
Kay
@David Koch:
I think they convince themselves they can win. It happens every cycle here, with the Democrat. Our last statehouse candidate was a great guy, very smart, completely rational person, and 2 weeks into it he was convinced there would be some big upset based on how many people came up to him at the fair.
I was sympathetic to Clinton during the ’08 primary because I understand keeping going when it’s all but over. I think that’s a very human trait, and really competitive people are particularly vulnerable to it. I don’t even think it’s a vulnerability, really. Why not think you can win? What’s the alternative?
raven
@Tommy: In hoops maybe.
Tommy
@Corner Stone: We will have to agree to disagree becuase I don’t think you are right.
I just don’t want to fight/debate on this topic.
Did I mention I got the Ballon Juice calendars in the mail today …..
Tommy
@raven: That is true and I won’t argue the point. What I was talking about.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Mike J:
We must have a different definition of script kiddies, then. To me, “script kiddies” are bored hackers who break stuff for kicks and brag about it. They don’t have any particular reason for the targets they choose and just go after whatever systems they can get into.
That is not the same motive as that of a disgruntled ex-employee who breaks stuff at their former employer’s to get revenge, even if they use the same techniques.
I also would not call the Target or Home Depot breaches the work of script kiddies, because the object was theft, not lulz. YMMV.
Helen
@Kay:
I disagree. From one of my heros:
“I am a candidate for the President of the United States. I make that statement proudly, in the full knowledge that, as a black person and a female person, I do not have a chance of actually gaining that office in this election year, I make that statement seriously, knowing that my candidacy itself can change the face and future of American politics – that it will be important to the needs and hopes of every one of you – even though, in the conventional sense, I will not win.”
Shirley Chisholm, June 4, 1972.
James E Powell
I love that it would mean that more people would hear what Sanders has to say, but I don’t recall a time when a left-side challenge to a centrist Democrat resulted in a Democrat winning the general election and moving left on policy. Actually, I don’t remember that it ever resulted in a Democrat winning.
I could be wrong, but I’m thinking of McCarthy challenging Johnson, Kennedy against Carter, Nader against Gore. Am I missing any?
different-church-lady
Well, I hope he makes up his mind soon so we can get an early start on understanding how he’ll be a horrible president and how we’re going to undermine him.
gene108
@Yatsuno:
I take it you’ve never been stuck at the DMV waiting hours to get called, only to find out you only brought 49,999 pieces of ID and were missing the necessary 50,000th piece of ID to prove you are who you say you are?
People’s interactions with the government are often unpleasant, in a small mean way, and that hurts more than the many good things that go on in the background.
@Kay:
I think there are several Republican governors of states that still have a functioning Democratic Party, at some level, who can play the “reasonable” center-right – I can do what Democrats want to do but better and tax you less game – while being just as right-wing on any number of issues.
The question is can these governors step-up and make their sales pitch appealing to people in other parts of the country?
2016 is going to be a tough year for Democrats.
There’s a real possibility of the right Republican sales pitch flipping a few “Democratic” states in the Presidential election, as several reliably “blue” states have Republican state governments or governors, such as Michigan, New Jersey and now Massachusetts and Illinois, so the thought of these states ever electing a Republican is not out of the realm of possibilities.
David Koch
@jon:
But that’s not happening. Maybe that happens in novels and Aaron Sorkin dramas. But in reality debates are shaped by the media and resources. The media doesn’t cover issues, they cover the horse race and banalities (ie Edwards’ hair cut, Obama’s flag pin, whether a candidate is a guy you’d like to have a beer with, Gore’s sighing). With a useless media, it’s then left up to the candidate to try to break through to the public with paid advertising, but that takes money.
Ya know, Jack Kennedy didn’t win the nomination by the power of his words. No, he won because he was charming and handsome, and his brother ran a ruthless, well organization campaigned, financed with goobs of money from his billionaire father.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
Oh, well, if people are posting pictures of Obama on Facebook, then it must be true that the CIA did it. No other possible explanation once people start putting pictures of the president on Facebook.
I realize that you think that the CIA is the only group in the entire world that is capable of hacking the Internet so I’m not sure why I should even bother to point out the dozens, if not hundreds, of other countries and groups that can do it. I guess it was the CIA that stole everyone’s credit card numbers from Target and Home Depot, right? After all, there’s no one else in the world capable of doing it.
raven
@Tommy: Debate what? Hardly any bowl games sell out. I’ve been to two, the Rose Bowl in 84 and the National Championship between Virginia Tech and FSU. Every other bowl I’ve been to you could walk up and pay less than face.
NotMax
As he’s not a member of the D party, sounds more as if Sanders wants to create a new entry in the dictionary for “pipe dream.”
Come March, we’ll be seeing a lot of “Seek End at Bernie’s” headlines.
Amir Khalid
@Bob In Portland:
I could add Jamali Shadat, Rafeah Buang, the Alleycats and AR Tompel to that list of yours, and it would be just as relevant to the Sony Pictures issue.
raven
@efgoldman: This week
Bowl game attendance on decline but TV interest grows
KG
Hypothetically speaking, if Saunders (or another credible candidate) were to run as a third party or independent and actually win some states in November… How likely is it that it prevents someone getting to 270 in the electoral college?
Secondarily, what happens if the election is thrown to the House of Representatives? Each state gets a vote, which one would think would benefit the Republicans, but would the Representatives from small states that went for a third party candidate be willing to go against the voters in their state? Say, for example, South Dakota voted for Bernie as an independent, would the sole Republican rep really ignore that?
Mike J
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): Script kiddy has nothing to do with motive, it’s a descriptor of skill. Whoever did sony used off the shelf packages and didn’t really add anything themselves. The lack of sophistication in the attack is also reflected in the fact that they used so many different off the shelf packages. It’s like they didn’t have any real target and just let loose a buncha stuff.
The target and home depot hacks weren’t script kiddies becuse they took some actual skill.
samiam
WGAFF. He has zero chance anyways. Something you probably won’t realize if you believe half the nonsense you read on the orange satan. Not even enough support to keep anyone else on their toes.
Bob In Portland
@Amir Khalid: Let’s wait.
(If I can’t wait for a specific thread on a subject here, should I just wait? Is that what you do? Are open threads off-limits to open discussion now?)
Helen
@Corner Stone:
Yeah I was embarrassed for NYC today. We NYC people never get embarrassed because it’s, well, NYC and we have so many fucking assholes that we just laugh and let it roll off our backs. See: Trump, Donald.
But today, those fucking assholes embarrassed me.
raven
Tickets for the Music City Bowl between these two giants are $85 for the cheapest through the schools and $31 on stub hub. LSU may be taking a bunch of busses but that joint won’t be full.
Davis X. Machina
@Violet: Damn near cost Shumlin his re-election as governor.
gene108
@Tommy:
I finished 5th grade and went to middle school, high school and college in Raleigh, NC. My mom still lives in Cary. I’ve been to games, with Duke fans visiting. They just do not have the bodies to really fill up anyplace unless the other team is very bad and they do not have good home attendance. Their home stadiums are small by modern standards.
Cameron Indoor Stadium is an 8,000 seat, 80-90, year old stadium. They ain’t building a bigger basketball barn because they could not fill it up. They do not have the people.
Wallace Wade stadium*, where they play football, seats about 34,000 people. When Duke was a doormat in football, they could barely fill up Wallace Wade and even now they know they cannot expand the size much and hope to keep it full.
* Wallace Wade Stadium (not sure what it was called back then) hosted the 1942 Rose Bowl, as Duke coach Wallace Wade, convinced the Rose Bowl committee to play the game in Durham, as folks were worried about a Japanese attack on the West Coast three weeks after Pearl Harbor, and Duke’s opponent, Oregon State, was not geographically situated to alleviate the fears of a game on the West Coast. The only Rose Bowl game not played in Pasadena. Oregon State won.
raven
From SI :
Just Some Fuckhead
@Kay: “Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.” – Friedrich Nietzsche
Corner Stone
@gene108: Hofheinz Pavilion for University of Houston has only ever had about 10K seats, and now a little under 9K. Their football stadium seats about 40K. And U of H has over 36k+ undergrads each year.
NotMax
@KG
Magic 8-ball sez: “Yes.”
Kay
@gene108:
It’s such a lie. He reduced my state income tax by 200 dollars and increased the local property taxes by 1000. I now get nothing back for schools from the money I pay in state taxes. It all goes to his disgusting privateer cronies. It goes to Columbus and there it stays, never to be seen again. They distribute it among 150 politically-connected government contractors. I’d like to know how many of the “private sector” jobs he created were in the public sector column in 2010.
David Koch
What are the utopians gonna do when they find out Bernie isn’t pure – that he voted with the NRA, he voted for the war in Afghanistan, he supports drone strike and killing Americans (ie Anwar Al-awlakii), and perhaps most shockingly, he voted against closing GITMO?
Just Some Fuckhead
@NotMax: I couldn’t get past the fantasy scenario of a socialist winning South Dakota.
raven
@efgoldman: I know how it works.
Just Some Fuckhead
@David Koch: We’re gonna make a perfect presidential candidate out of all that straw your throwing around.
askew
It’s too bad that progressives failed to rally around an electable left alternative to Hillary. Instead they are pushing Sanders who is ancient and a socialist or Elizabeth Warren who is also way too old plus being not interested in running for president. This is why progressives remain the fringe of the Dem party. They have zero clue how politics work, while the tea party backed actual candidates with a chance of winning in races and are now feared by the GOP party. The Dem party just continues to laugh at progressives for being useless.
raven
Mike J
@efgoldman:
Isn’t that true of every road game they play though? Why would it cost more for example, for Washington to play in Pasedena at a bowl game than against any of the southern teams in the Pac 12?
raven
@askew: Like who, you?
gene108
@Corner Stone:
I don’t know much about the Houston Cougars, other than they had some great teams under Guy Lewis, in basketball, and had some success in football, during the late 1980’s and early 1990’s, when they played the run-and-shoot offense, but otherwise they seem to not have done much in sports.
A 10k basketball stadium, even in the 1980’s, was not unusual. Most schools did not move to bigger facilities until the late 1990’s, 00’s or even in the 2010’s.
I’m not sure why Houston does not do better in basketball or football, but they just have not been good in either for a long time.
raven
@Mike J: Longer stay for one thing.
KG
@Just Some Fuckhead: first state that popped into my head with one representative in the House.
askew
@David Koch:
Yeah, they are deluded if they think adding another ancient politician to the Dem primary is going to do anything to inspire young voters. While the GOP party is running younger candidates who are fresh on the national scene (outside of Jeb of course), we are running a bunch of charisma-free ancient candidates who have been around on the national scene forever. And unlike the GOP, we actually need the youth vote.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@Mike J:
Okay, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone speaking to a general audience use it that way. I’ve always heard it used as “bored teenager hacking for lulz.” Do we at least agree that the Sony hack almost certainly had a different motive than bored teenagers seeing what they could find?
What was released only makes no sense as a target if you think the perps were bored teenagers. It all makes perfect sense as a target if it was disgruntled ex-employees who, among other things, might want Sony to have to pay massive fines to the state of California for not protecting their employee PII.
raven
@efgoldman: You play, if you win the required number of games you get a bowl bid. That’s how it works.
Corner Stone
@gene108:
They sporadically do well in both or either sports. U of H’s main problem is recruiting. It is primarily recognized as a commuter school, where the majority of students still live at home/on their own and work a good chunk of their time in between classes. They go to class, leave school and go to work or go home to take care of family.
So the density of a TAMU or UT, for example, is simply never going to happen at UH.
They’ve also managed to switch between a handful of league conferences over recent years which lessens the pull of rivalries and etc.
BillinGlendaleCA
@raven: Also even for PAC-12 conference games, the teams travel lighter sometimes, less cheerleaders, less band and a smaller squad.
KG
@gene108: if sports isn’t highly prioritized at a school, it’s teams likely won’t be as good as they could otherwise be. I went to Long Beach State, they don’t have a football team anymore, but our baseball team is pretty good, as is our women’s volleyball team. There’s enough talent in the area for our basketball teams to be better than they are – but we don’t spend insane amounts of money on facilities like other schools do. It’s all about allocating resources (and having very wealthy donors helps, ask Oklahoma State)
ETA: also, like Corner Stone said, being a commuter school doesn’t help either
Kay
@David Koch:
I love that! This is looking better and better the longer we hash it out.
raven
@efgoldman: That’s because that was NOT the requirement. When Illinois met Bama in the Bear’s last game it was the first time a Big-10 team went to any bowl but the Rose Bowl. That was the deal then, one bowl. It’s not like that now. Some grumpy fuck no likee, especially the folks that are MADE to watch all these shitty. meaningless games. As for me, I’m down. I love it.
Oh, and GO HOKIES!!!!!
Just Some Fuckhead
@askew: Did you mean to post this before August 2016?
KG
@raven: I like them all too (not that I watch them all). Plus, if you want more than ten (or so) teams be in the national title picture, you need more bowl games because it means six extra weeks of practice for teams to improve.
mike in dc
I see Sanders as a candidate with a ceiling of 15-30% in the primaries. Of all the names tossed around, I think Warren is the only serious threat to Clinton. O’Malley might be able to mount a momentary threat, until the first big round of primaries. Everyone else is either too far right(Cuomo, Schweitzer) or too old(Biden, Brown). I don’t think Biden will run if Hillary is in.
Mike J
@efgoldman: Sure, but I just used Pasedena as an example. I don’t see how playing in the Royal Purple Bowl in Las Vegas is going to cost any more for a west coast team to travel to than a regular seson game a similar distance away.
Raven did point out that teams usually arrive earlier. Figure 25-30k per night to put up the whole team. An extra 4 nights cost 100k.[1] How do they lose 1.7M doing something they do every two weeks during the regular season and turn a profit on?
[1] Obviously it cost more for the band, etc. Does everybody *have* to get there a week early? Does the team really need to be there that much earlier than they would for a run of the mill road game?
BillinGlendaleCA
@raven: I’m only watching the bowls with my 3 favorite teams and the Fighting Fashion Nightmares in the Rose. So for today, Go Huskers!
raven
@Mike J: The bowls set the requirements for when the teams arrive. Georgia had to go to Charlotte Xmas day much to the chagrin of Saint Richt. There are all kinds of pre-game activities including hospital visits and the much heralded EXTRA Practices. They guys I knew that played fucking hated it.
FlipYrWhig
@James E Powell: As far as the “changing the dialogue” thing goes, you could probably make a case that Jesse Jackson ’88 made for a different debate among Democrats than would have existed without his presence. Maybe without Jackson in the mix Gore would have done better and bested Dukakis? But even if that was the dynamic, it wouldn’t be evidence of the leftward pull working to win the general election… And of course contested primaries of the sort we’re now accustomed to aren’t THAT old, so there’s not that much evidence to draw patterns from.
KG
@Mike J: I flat out don’t buy it that a lot of programs are losing money. Reminds me of when there’s a strike or lock out in the pros and the owners cry that they are losing money. More likely, it’s creative accounting – because if you’re losing money on your sports programs, you shouldn’t be paying coaches millions of dollars.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@efgoldman: Nah, I’d put you in that cockpit with much more confidence.
@raven: Which is not to say it ain’t grand for y’all who’ll enjoy more games! Some of us are pedantic purists about how it used to be. At least I am, and for no good reason.
raven
@BillinGlendaleCA: My Illini got’s shafted yesterday but the Hokies are doing well. I’ll watch every game I can, even this Duck Weedeater Bowl.
Hey Tommy, you want to see NOBODY at a game, tune in the tilt in Shreveport between the sorry ass Gamecocks and Miami that is just starting.
askew
@raven:
Governor Martin O’Malley. He’s the only progressive Dem thinking of running for president. Unfortunately, the left is too busy chasing Warren who won’t run or Sanders who is going to be the Gavel/Kucinich of 2016. I’ve given my reasons about 100 times on this blog why O’Malley is the alternative to Hillary we should back, so I won’t reiterate but if you are unhappy with the idea of Hillary as our nominee, he is who you should be backing.
raven
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): My old man used to say you couldn’t look up a dead horses ass.
Villago Delenda Est
@Mike J: The fact that it was crude and effective tells us a great deal about SPE’s IT security.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
@BillinGlendaleCA:
And many fewer hangers on, like administrators from both the university in general and the athletic department. A bowl game is treated like a junket for executives. Plus a road game at Arizona State doesn’t require the school to buy a whole bunch of overpriced tickets that it’s responsible for reselling.
raven
@askew: Hillary will kill the first thing that moves if she gets elected just to prove she will.
askew
@mike in dc:
If Biden is too old, so is Hillary. O’Malley would be the only person who isn’t in their 60-70s running on the Dem side, which is a sign of how much trouble our party is in. GOP has a bunch of younger, rising stars and the Dems young stars can’t break through because the damn Clintons won’t retire already.
Villago Delenda Est
@askew: O’Malley’s primary problem is name recognition outside of political junkies.
He’s probably got all the name recognition outside of the Eastern Seaboard as John Kitzhaber does east of the Rockies.
Kay
@askew:
Do you know that younger voters are disinterested in Clinton? Is that based on anything other than “old, she’s old, so old”? The only polling I’ve seen has her well ahead with younger voters.
It’s not Clinton versus “hypothetical young GOP candidate”. There’s an actual list of GOP candidates.
David Koch
@Just Some Fuckhead: it’s not straw if those are actual votes and actual statements.
But I pass it along to noted right wing organs Salon and Counterpunch and ask them to spare the straw: Not only can’t Sanders win — he won’t get Hillary Clinton to significantly change her agenda. and The Myth of Bernie Sanders
Even I forgot about Bernie’s statements in support of Likud air strikes on Palestinian civilians and his love for the budget busting F-35.
When you’ve lost Counterpunch and Salon…
BillinGlendaleCA
@raven: Bill better be careful.
raven
@BillinGlendaleCA: I surprised she didn’t give him a 38 cal vasectomy way back when!
BillinGlendaleCA
@raven: Remember, she killed Vince Foster. Heh.
Schlemazel
@David Koch:
JFK won because, as in the words of Harry Truman, his dad could afford to buy him West Virginia.
Its a song as old as time, money and the beast
askew
@Villago Delenda Est:
And he can’t get any traction because MSNBC and the left blogs are too busy chasing Warren and Sanders to give any real Hillary alternatives media attention. That’s one more advantage the GOP has over us. Their rising stars have national media attention. Dems seem content to turn the party into the party of Hillary with Warren as the only alternative to her getting attention. It’s pathetic. But, then the right media has always been more politically savvy than the left media. The left media doesn’t have any understanding of political realities.
Oddly enough, O’Malley has been getting a lot of media attention on Spanish language television for his pro-immigrant policies. He might be more well-known among Hispanics than Democrats as a whole.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@raven: I suspect mine did as well. OT, do you (or VDE, Omnes, or Soonergrunt or other service guys) have a junk email account to which you’d be willing for me to send an old portrait of my grandpap, dad, and uncle for possible uniform ID? I’d email Cole, but :: falls out of chair laughing::
I’m confident the old dude’s is (capable of being) an actual uniform as he’s planted in a military cemetery. About the others I have no clue. My email is FLSgreen at gmail. I’d be extremely appreciative. GO Hokies!
@raven: Sadly, that’s entirely accurate. She’s always been too hawkish for me.
Schlemazel
@Amir Khalid:
you could add that list to the end of anything Bobski posts & it would be just as relevant. Also “rutabaga, Volvo, entwistle”
Kay
@Villago Delenda Est:
O’Malley’s primary problem is his successor lost. In Maryland.
askew
@Kay:
Polls show that Hillary has backing but there doesn’t seem to be any enthusiasm for Hillary at all except among media and some older women. Her book sales have been dismal, her People cover was the worst selling of 2014, Ready for Hillary is already in debt, etc. I see a lot of assumptions that poll %s equal enthusiasm. And as we saw in 2008, that just wasn’t true with Hillary.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
@KG: There’s plenty of creative accounting in college athletics but it almost entirely goes the other way, making programs look more profitable than they actually are. One trick, for instance, is to have the athletes in the general student population for health coverage so that the bills go to that program rather than to the football team. Another is to have stadium maintenance done by the university’s building and grounds department rather than billed to the athletic department.
The incentives are different for the universities than they are for a professional sports team. For a variety of reasons, the latter want to appear less profitable than they are. The former want to look more profitable than they are, for among other reasons, to justify those salaries you mentioned.
That said, the really big programs probably are more profitable than they used to be because of the growth in TV revenues, especially from networks owned by the conferences themselves. However, outside of the Power Five conferences (and including some of the lower programs within them) there probably isn’t a single profitable football program other than Notre Dame. The rest of them are all losing money.
BillinGlendaleCA
@askew: When you poll and you have one candidate at 60+% there’s not much of a horserace to cover. That’s what the media lives for. The Thugs have a horserace, we don’t(guess they don’t poll anyone around here).
raven
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):did you get it?
David Koch
@raven: I think you are wrong. She’ll kill the first thing that moves not to prove anything, but because she likes it
“We came, we saw, he died – hahahahhahahahahah”
SatanicPanic
Fire the fucking NYPD. All of them and make them reapply if they want their jobs back. And outlaw their union.
Schlemazel
@KG:
The states will break exactly the way their delegation breaks with a couple of insignificant exceptions. It would mean a GOP President. Does not matter if the gooper only won 3 states that party does not give an inch.
Amir Khalid
@Schlemazel:
I wouldn’t actually do that, mind you. It would be wrong to sully the names of these legends of Malaysian entertainment by attaching them to some list of BiP’s.
SatanicPanic
@askew:
Which is probably the worst thing for them
Kay
@askew:
I agree that Democrats are in big trouble in the states, but O’Malley’s candidate lost in Maryland. If they’re not “enthusiastic” I don’t know who will be.
BillinGlendaleCA
@SatanicPanic: Worked well for Bobby(Kenneth the Page) Jindal, and Marco(Stay thirsty my Friend) Rubio.
Violet
Speaking of bowl games, I just turned on the TV and something called the Duck Commander Independence Bowl is on. What in the world is that? Does it have something to do with the Duck Dynasty people?
raven
@Violet: Yea, it’s in Shreveport.
http://duckcommander.com/
Gene108
@Kay:
Convincing people that the tax cut at the state level led to reduced state funding for your locality that caused your locality to raise property taxes is too complicated a concept for most people.
I do not mean uneducated people. I know plenty of folks in white collar jobs, who cannot make that connection.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@raven: File sent with subject “Bella Q’s kinfolk” – thanks mucho, man.
askew
@Kay:
That’s such a BS argument. Voters didn’t turn out for Brown, because of Brown not because of lack of enthusiasm for O’Malley. If O’Malley was running for a 3rd term, he would have won IMO. Brown had a lot of problems as a candidate that had nothing to do with O’Malley. That’s like saying Deval Patrick wouldn’t be a viable presidential candidate because Martha Coakley lost MA-Gov. Total hack argument.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Gene108: I’ve know folk with a college degree who can’t understand the progressive tax system.
SatanicPanic
@BillinGlendaleCA: IIRC the debates were particularly helpful
Helen
@raven:
YUP.
Schlemazel
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym:
I’m pretty sure you are right. I remember reading a study done by an econ prof showing how even the programs that claimed to be making money were doing so only because of substantial amounts of money drained from the university.
Mike in NC
Sorry, but Bernie wouldn’t even carry Vermont.
Gene108
@Kay:
I think Democratic primary voters can easily fall into the trap of chasing after the “not-Hillary of the week”, in much the same way we mocked Republicans for wanting a not-Mitt, in 2012.
I can see it with the liberal love affair with O’Malley, Thr guy was OK as governor, gutted state pensions at the end of his term (after it was clear he may well run for President) to pay for programs that would land on the liberal Democratic voters radar, like universal pre-K, and generally ignored the basic, boring stuff of state government, like having fiscally sound budgets, in order to do the flashier things.
Also, too politics breeds a certain level of inherent corruption. When Democrats dominate a state, like they do in Maryland, there’s sometimes a backlash vote for Republican governors to “balance things out”.
The problem Democrats have, especially post-CU, is that without the levers of power to coax donations from (business) interest groups, the Dems do not have the money to compete with Republicans and the state and local parties end up shriveling up and dying off as actual viable players in the sate.
Schlemazel
@Amir Khalid:
Agreed, they don’t deserve it. It surprised me you were trying to engage Боб, you seem too smart to fall into that trap.
Donut
The first few dozen comments** don’t mention what I’m about to say, sadly, so let me say it thusly: there are only four things the Democratic Party candidates need to do in 2016, and whoever figures out how to do these things will win not only the nomination, but the presidency:
1. Motivate > 90% of African-American voters
2. Motivate > 50% of female voters, esp. single female voters
3. Motivate > 70% of Latino voters
4. Motivate > 50% of voters under age 45
In other words, keep the Obama coalition together.
Hillary will be on a fool’s errand if she thinks she can win any other way.
I want Sanders to run – but I don’t think Sanders can do all of that above, and that’s mainly due to age and lack of charisma. I do think Hillary can do it, but she will have to be pushed to really dig deep and speak to the issues that people from those groups care about. She has to be an outsider coming back in, to take on the old white dudes who run the GOP.
** I’m not reading the whole comment thread, so if anyone actually has brought this up already, then mea culpa
DTGstl314
@Kay:
Bless your heart, Bernie. We’re already there, and have been for most of the four decades I’ve been on this planet.
Kay
@Gene108:
I can’t help but be amused by the GOP public employees in this GOP stronghold. It’s reaching them and they’re bitter as hell. I’m all out of sympathy for that group of people. Cry me a fucking river, you dopes. My husband runs around the courthouse basically trolling them, telling them they better get out while they still have a pension.
John Revolta
@BillinGlendaleCA: Hell, I know people with degrees who think evolution is a crock of shit. And I ain’t talking about Oral Roberts U either.
David Koch
Will candidate Sanders pledge to prosecute Bush and Cheney and the CIA for torture and murder?
That’s what I will be looking for. If not, then he’ll be just as bad (if not worse) as the monsters who perpetrated torture and murder.
rikyrah
@Kay:
I don’t think you’re overstating it.
Bernie can get on the nerves sometimes, but he has that ability to set the issues straight, and what I do like most about him is that he’s not squishy….he swings for everything.
Violet
@askew: Wasn’t it Maryland that had the crappy healthcare rollout? O’Malley’s going to have to answer for that since he was governor at the time. Doesn’t leave a great impression of his executive abilities.
rikyrah
@Tree With Water:
I hear you on this.
Said it before – don’t trust her on domestic OR foreign policy.
Helen
@John Revolta:
Tim Minchin would like a word.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0xQcEH7Dqo
The song is kind of dumb, but the commentary at the beginning is spot on.
rikyrah
@Baud:
Who da phuq would think running to Hillary’s RIGHT in a DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY is good election strategy?
Violet
@raven: Not gonna click that. You can’t make me.
BillinGlendaleCA
@David Koch: Well, Bernie voted to keep Gitmo open.
rikyrah
@Kay:
You keep on telling those truths, Kay. Keep on telling it.
rikyrah
@askew:
I want him to run. Make a serious run of it.
Baud
@rikyrah:
Grifters.
rikyrah
@Donut:
:
You mean that the OBAMA COALITION is the path to victory?
Well, you know that ICAM with you.
I just don’t believe that Hillary and her advisers believe you. Because they RESENT the Obama Coalition. Hence all the bullshyt articles about how the Democrats need to find a way with ‘ White working class voters’.
Now, the Black working Class
the Latino working class
the Asian working class
the Native American working class
have it all figured out, but somehow we’re supposed to give two shyts about the White working class’ inability to catch a phucking clue.
askew
@Violet:
Yes, it had a rough rollout, but that is one black mark against a long list of executive accomplishments. A website rollout failure isn’t going to be that big of a deal vs. all his positives
Violet
@rikyrah: I’d love to see O’Malley run. And let’s have people like Kirsten Gillibrand and Amy Klobuchar run as well. I’m not a fan of Andrew Cuomo or Jay Nixon or Jim Webb, but get them in there too. Let’s have a real race, a real primary season. Let’s discuss the issues.
Hillary Clinton needs challengers. If she’s going to be the nominee, she needs practice, she needs to WIN her position, not be anointed. And maybe she won’t win. Maybe someone like O’Malley will capture the imagination of voters. Hillary wants a coronation. She needs to earn that win.
lol
In December 06/January 07 Clinton was hovering in the lead nationally around the 30-40% and was *losing* to Edwards in Iowa with Obama not far behind her. A significant portion of the base was undecided, often a plurality.
Today, she regularly hits 60+% nationally and is getting similar numbers in every state including Iowa. Her closest competition in the polls not only isn’t running but is a supporter. Undecideds regularly run in the single digits.
Obama didn’t “come out of nowhere to win” – he spent the better part of 2006 laying the groundwork for a Presidential campaign and everyone (in politics at least) knew he was running.
askew
@Donut:
Hillary is too old and has no charisma as well. And the problem Hillary is going to have is that she won’t be able to inspire the occasional voters to turn out like Obama did. She faces the same problem she had in 2008. 100% name recognition which leads to high #s in polls against mostly unknown candidates but her support is lukewarm and willing to shift to someone more inspiring. There’s a reason she couldn’t sell books, her Ready for Hillary campaign is already in debt and her People cover was the worst selling of the year. No one is that excited about her.
And her team won’t run with the Obama coalition. She is already chasing the white voters she stupidly chased in 2008. She won’t get them but she’ll make sure to alienate minority votes while chasing them. Attacking Obama or taking credit for his work will piss off AA voters.
After reading the latest Hillary tone-deaf gaffes at the Guardian that attacked Argentina’s leader and is endangering the US-Argentina relationship, it just reminds me that she doesn’t have the political skill to win the general election.
Doug r
@Tree With Water: I posit that Bernie is the Koch’s choice. Who better to keep the purity police home when he inevitably loses to Biden or Duval?
Violet
@askew:
I think if/when she is the actual Democratic nominee for President of the United States that things may change. The first woman president is a big deal. I suspect you may find women who often vote Republican crossing over to vote for her. Plus, there’s no telling now just now bad the misogyny is going to be during the election. I expect it to be bad, but when over half the population is female and the drumbeat from the Republicans is consistently how women can’t do this or that, I think it may motivate unexpected people to vote. The “occasional voter” of which you speak, at least women.
Again, hard to predict now, but the first female president would be a big deal. The average white guy Republican may have a hard time running against that.
PhilbertDesanex
@Donut: This, and we need CONGRESS! People go on so bad about the Prez but as we have seen, we need a Dem Congress to do anything re taxes. For all her faults Hillary bring out a lot of non-voting women and only-moderate-racist GOP women. Um, to support bombing Iraq. Oh well.
Les Nessman
@rikyrah: Well then she doesn’t have much of a chance.
The 90% A/A is never going to happen.
And youngsters won’t even turn out.
Doug r
@Villago Delenda Est: the Koch’s are aren’t aristocrats, they’re “Aristocrats”.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Kay, you just cracked me up. Completely with you, just like no whining from anybody in Kansas. Shut up and take your lumps.
Anne Laurie
@rikyrah:
Every single Media Village Idiot, for several hundred — and they have the megaphone.
I’d actually worry about the Kochs paying Cuomo to run against HRC, but I don’t think their egos will allow them to get that close to anyone with even the most nominal “D” affiliation!
askew
@Violet:
I think if Hillary had gotten to where she is on her own, she’d have that response among women. Almost every woman I know including myself all roll our eyes at Hillary. She’s riding her husband’s coattails to the presidency. It would suck for our first female president to be so subpar and always have that asterisk next to her name.
Citizen Alan
@MattF:
I disagree. I think a Sanders candidacy may actually help Hillary in the long run by allowing her to position herself as a moderate somewhere between Sanders and whichever lunatic the Repukes nominate. Also, my great fear is that Hillary cruises to the nomination and then is unprepared for the buzzsaw of the general. Obama is a better politician than her, IMO, but even he was caught flat-footed once the general campaign started in earnest. Remember that first debate?
Corner Stone
@askew:
Wow.
Corner Stone
@Violet:
AKlob can go and preach it to the four winds. She is an awful example of a D pol.
askew
@Citizen Alan:
Obama kicked McCain’s ass in all debates. It wasn’t even close. Where he stumbled was in the first debate with Romney after he had been out of practice with debating. And it’s a huge problem for Hillary. She has been tone-deaf and unable to deal with unexpected questions on her book tour. The general election is going to be much worse.
burnspbesq
@Bob In Portland:
You’re disgusting. Everything you have ever posted here has been either a flat-out lie or breathtakingly stupid. How do you look at youself in a mirror, you miserable shite?
askew
@Corner Stone:
Yep. She got her Senate seat handed to her because she was first lady. She had no ties to NY and yet was able to clear the primary field because of her husband had connections to raise an obscene amount of money.
In the Senate, she did absolutely nothing of value and then ran for president using her husband’s connections and ran on his accomplishments because she had none of her own.
Then, she got a do-nothing SoS position where she spent her entire time on a “goodwill tour” while Biden and Obama did the heavy lifting. Compare what Kerry has worked on in his 2 years with what little Hillary did in 4.
If she was Senator Hillary Smith who somehow managed to get elected in NY after carpetbagging with no political skills, little charisma and no reason for running, she’d still have no accomplishments to her name and wouldn’t have made it out of Iowa in 2008.
Violet
@Corner Stone: I’d rather have her in the running so there are more Democrats in the primary season. Hillary needs competitors. I don’t like Cuomo either but I’d rather have him run than just crown Hillary.
Corner Stone
@askew: And somehow I am pretty sure you have never made this analysis of a male pol who had connections.
It’s disgusting and dismissive of an individual who has a pretty impressive stance on her own. What has Gillibrand or Klobuchar or DiFi ever done on their own before office?
Corner Stone
@askew:
“Do-nothing”? Ha! Who is the boss, fool?
You mean the Kerry “gaffe” for Syria that has been so wildly successful?
Corner Stone
@burnspbesq: Damn, just because your candy crush cutcliffe failed tonight, that’s no reason for you to be so pissy.
askew
@Corner Stone:
Gillibrand, Klobuchar and Feinstein all got elected on their own. They didn’t rely on their husband, his connections or use his accomplishments as part of their platform. And this is what they did before running for the Senate:
Gillibrand – successful attorney, held a seat in the U.S. House
Klobuchar – successful attorney, named attorney of the year and won 2 terms as Hennepin County Attorney
Feinstein – President of SF Board of Supervisors, Mayor of San Francisco
And all of them accomplished more in the Senate than Hillary did.
And like 90% of Hillary supporters, instead of addressing her completely empty list of accomplishments while Senator or SoS, you lash out and attack the person pointing out her lack of accomplishments and accuse them of sexism.
askew
@Corner Stone:
Obama had an incredibly successful first term on foreign policy. Hillary just had almost nothing to do with it. Obama and Biden did the heavy lifting on foreign policy. Hillary had a goodwill tour.
Kerry was already instrumental in getting relations between Cuba and the U.S. moving again and he’s been working on an Iran deal for months now.
Instead of lashing out like a 4 year old, why don’t you list Hillary’s many accomplishments. I’ve yet to see one Hillary supporter produce this list, but maybe you’ll be the first.
Corner Stone
@askew:
Sorry, do you know who DiFi’s husband is?
And you can own your sexism as it’s fucking disgusting and needs to be called out. You want to go through who “deserves” their Senate seats?
No, you do not. You want to bash one woman who is the former First Lady because you’re not big on her potential candidacy. I think it is the height of sexist bullshit to say that a person who graduated from Yale Law School, at that particular time of our society should be disregarded because the male part of her union had more success over the last 40 years. Geez, I wonder why?
And please tell us all, when HRC is the SecState and Kerry is in the Senate, all the “heavy lifting” is done by men – PBO, Biden and Kerry. But, somehow, when Kerry is magically SecState, any outcomes are all on his watch and his hard work. Wow, that seems amazing. No, wait. I mean “amusing”.
HRC slow walked the SecState job and Obama did everything and was the Boss for four years. Then Kerry came onboard and scored a string of magnificent diplomatic victories. All on his own!
Yay!
askew
@Corner Stone:
And you still have no answer for what Hillary’s accomplished in her political career. But, you keep playing the sexism card because it is all Hillary supporters have. She has nothing to run on just like in 2008 so you keep screaming sexism at any criticism in hopes that those who criticize her will get too scared to say anything else. It’s pathetic and sad. For every politician I’ve backed, male and female, I’ve been able to list their accomplishments and the reasons I am supporting them. But you have nothing.
Beatrice
@askew: So, what were the primary accomplishments of Barack Obama midway through his one term as U.S. Senator?
Helen
@askew: My second favorite urban legend:
Bill and Hillary are out driving in the country near Hillary`s hometown.
They are low on fuel, so Bill pulls into a gas station for a fill-up. The attendant comes out and begins to pump gas into the tank. As he is doing this, he looks into the passenger window.
“Hey, Hillary. We used to date in high school, do you remember me?” he asks.
They chat for a few minutes, Bill pays and the First Couple leave.
As they drive Bill is feeling very proud of himself and looks over at Hillary. “You used to date that guy? Just think what it would be like if you had married him,” he says smugly.
Hillary looks at Bill and shrugs. The she replies, “Well I guess you’d be pumping gas and he would be the President.”
cckids
@David Koch:
I’m late here, as always, but you need to see Sanders’ appearance on Colbert. Part 1 and Part 2.
The reaction of the crowd to him was astounding. And they’re mostly young-uns. They did everything short of throwing underwear at the stage; mostly for his progressive, anti-1% lines.
If by some miracle he gets the nom, I have no doubt they’d come out for him.
Kay
@cckids:
I can’t believe he said “bald”. Do young people hate bald people? :)
I don’t think my two grown children do, and they’re voters. Also, isn’t Rand Paul (actually) bald?
rikyrah
@askew:
Yes yes and more yes
Kay
@Helen:
I’m sticking with my theory. I think one almost has to believe one will prevail when entering grueling/risky things. My daughter just quit her (good but boring and safe) job to take additional science courses and apply to dental school. I asked her what her “back up plan” is and she was horribly offended. She said my backup plan (just dripping with scorn) is to get into dental school. Her fiancee was horrified by my question too. I wished I could take it back the minute I said it. Now I’m not on the optimistic, hopeful team. They’ll probably shun me when she gets in. I’ll be lucky if they take my phone calls after this.
David Koch
@cckids: self selection bias.
you really think Obama Girl is going to strip to her underwear and start gyrating over a short 75 year old man with a heavy accent and bad hair?
Violet
@Kay: Just call them up and apologize. Tell them you were being mom and ultra protective and worried about them. You have ever confidence in her and know she’s going to do great. Etc. Play the mom card. She’ll forgive you.
David Koch
I’m waiting to see if Bernie will pledge to release Bradley Manning and pardon Snowden. If not, then Bernie is a sellout, worse than Bush, running to carry out Bush’s 3rd term.
GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)
@Corner Stone:
Holy shit! Something we agree on!
I’d love for Franken to run, though.
GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)
@GHayduke (formerly lojasmo):
Too late to edit, but I think Clinton is a similarly awfull example of a democrat.
Corner Stone
@rikyrah: Amazing that you would ascribe any power a woman has to her husband.
That’s fucking great.
Corner Stone
It’s Chelsea Manning, you ignorant fucking scumbag.
Corner Stone
@askew: GFY. It’s hilarious. Either Obama is the Boss and has taken credit for everything that has happened during his admin, or somehow we’re all supposed to single out things people in his Cabinet have done. And give them credit.
It works either way you like chump. Obama Wins and Others Meh.
You’re a fool and can go fuck yourself. Tell us what Biden or Kerry have done that didn’t get frog stomped by Obama. C’mon you fucking piece of shit. Let’s hear it. Where did anyone in His Cabinet get it that the Boss did not?
Let’s hear it.
Corner Stone
Yep, that’s what I thought. There is only one boss in the admin. Unless you want to talk shit about some specific person. Then, magically, they did nothing the whole time.
askew
@Beatrice:
Very easy to answer as he accomplished more as a first-term Senator than most do in multiple terms. He got 3 bills enacted. One minor bill on the Congo, a nuclear non-proliferation bill and a campaign finance reform bill. He also got a major compromise enacted while in the Illinois State Senate to tape police interrogations that almost all players involved thought would be impossible.
Any serious supporter of a candidate should have no problems listing a candidate’s major accomplishments. The fact that I’ve never seen one Hillary supporter be able to provide such a list shows what a complete joke she is as a national candidate.
billb
You do know Hillary would be the 1st Woman President, right? What drove the big win for Barry, was being the 1st A_A Prez. Not only did all minorities come out big, but whttt guys like me wanted to support the historic moment. So as much as I do not care for the path MS Clinton has taken, I will sure as FCK support her all the way. As will my Iowa Repub. aunt. Electing a lady is a big deal for our history. OR you could have the last [worst] bush.