As Betty pointed out below US normalization with Cuba is vastly overdue, and it turns out that Cuba deal has been in the works for 18 months and involved Canada and the Vatican as intermediaries. And nobody had any idea. No wonder Republicans are going completely apeshit.
I will do all in my power to block the use of funds to open an embassy in Cuba. Normalizing relations with Cuba is bad idea at a bad time.
— Lindsey Graham (@GrahamBlog) December 17, 2014
HURT. FEE-FEES.
Also, open threadness.
Karen in GA
The crying makes it all so much more fun.
Meanwhile, I leave the house for a few minutes. Upon my return, Iggy welcomes me home.
C.J.
Rubio v. The Pope. Who ya got?
RaflW
Oh, oh, Lind-say, you just don’t even matter.
Why does anyone outside the Republican central command even care in the slightest about Cuba any more?
Communism a la Castro is dead, globally, anywhere, period. It wouldn’t vooom if you put 10,000 volts thru it.
You just hate it because Obama is doing it. Tough.
Liberty60
@C.J.: To see this Pope wholeheartedly embrace social justice is gratifying, but to see him working with the Muslin near sheriff to normalize relations with a Communist country…well, now I need a cigar.
Karen in GA
@C.J.: To be fair, though, this Pope isn’t all that hateful. So he doesn’t count.
Rubio by default.
Violet
As opposed to a bad idea at a good time? What does this even mean?
dedc79
It’s the 54 year rule. If a policy hasn’t worked for 54 years, there is no longer a “bad time” to end said policy.
Mike J
@RaflW:
You know why people say, “only Nixon could go to China?” What they mean is Republicans despise the United States and will always, always, always cheer for anything their party does and denigrate the same action done by a Democrat.
trollhattan
“Paging Roger Goddell, please report to the panic room immediately. Roger Goodell, to the panic room.”
beltane
@Violet: Invading Iraq was a bad idea at a good time. Maybe this is the type of success Lindsay is pining for.
Roger Moore
That Obama guy is actually capable of playing his cards close to the chest. It’s another nice contrast with the previous administration.
Joel Hanes
I hope I’m beginning to see a pattern.
Perhaps President Obama will spend the next two years
repeatedly and systematically moving the Republican’s cheese.
shelley
I didn’t watch the announcement. Did they explain why tourist travel is still banned?
Arclite
Good news for Cubans. US Engagement can only help that lot. 20 years late IMO. Should have happened when the wall came down.
Mike J
Which Republican will say that in theory it’s ok, but it will cost too much money and Obama is trying to give away American taxpayer’s money to Cuba?
Americans still think that 28% of the US budget goes to foreign aid. And of course opening an embassy isn’t foreign aid, but it’s all going to get rolled together before the day is over.
Iowa Old Lady
Shelley, I believe Congress has to act to lift the travel ban completely?
I love the way Obama is turning all these squirrels loose for the Rs to chase.
beltane
@shelley: I think the embargo itself needs Congressional action to be lifted.
gene108
Couple of things that were being discussed in Betty’s thread regarding the Cuba embargo.
1. The embargo was put in place, when Cuba nationalized / seized the assets of American firms operation in Cuba. Those firms still have, per their records, a legal claim against the government of Cuba for compensation of their seized assets. This has usually been a sticking point in normalizing relations with Cuba.
2. Fidel Castro came to power before our current President was born.
Schlemazel
@Violet:
It means this is double bad!! (had to add the extra! just to prove it!!!)
Mike J
@shelley:
http://skift.com/2014/12/17/u-s-eases-cuba-travel-ban-as-countries-normalize-relations/
Amir Khalid
@shelley:
I’m guessing it’s forbidden by a law, which Congress passed and only Congress can repeal.
Tree With Water
Charles Pierce says, “The president has dressed Mitch McConnell and John Boehner in meat suits and sent them to feed the wolverines. This is extraordinarily well-played”. After reading his take on Cuber* at Esquire.com, I tend to agree. It’s a good feeling to feel good about a POTUS. The republican party is the mortal enemy of our democracy, and its enemies are my friends.
(*i.e. ‘Cuba’, as pronounced by people from Massachusetts).
Violet
@Schlemazel: Could it even be doubleplus ungood?
Joel Hanes
Question, maybe for Betty Cracker :
What effect does this have on the Balart / Ros-Lehtinen barons?
How about their friend Debbie Wasserman-Shulz ?
gene108
@Arclite:
You forget, 20 years ago, the Senate still had Jesse Helms, who would’ve held up any attempt at anything, because he’s mean evil son of a bitch and there were others, who probably supported him.
As obstructionist as modern Republicans are, there has always been a contingent of crazy evil mother fuckers infesting their Party and having positions of power, within their Party.
RaflW
@Mike J: Well, yes, but: YouGov asked in an April poll, Americans favored normalizing relations with Cuba by 51-20%.
So I think Lindsay, Marco et all are losers on this.
And I love that this hits the same day as Jebby announcing his “active exploration” phase. It’s almost like Obama is trolling the whole darn GOP. Hmmm.
Schlemazel
@gene108:
about #1
I worked with a young man who was born in Cuba but his mother left with the children sometime in the early 60s (he never talks about how or why & have never asked).
He did say though that opening relations with Cuba will pose one giant danger. Many of the wealthy landowners might try to return & demand their property back from poor Cubans. Underlying the economic issue those who fled were predominantly white, or lighter skinned & those who stayed tended to be darker. Race was a component because of the disparity of wealth under Batista tended to break along those lines (Gee, I wonder why?)
I hope none of this comes to pass and that we can move forward without a return to those bad old days. But as omnies has pointed out here, I am the most negative person. So I expect there will be trouble.
Epicurus
Oh, my, please pass Ms. Lindsey the smelling salts! Then walk her over to the fainting couch. The very idea!! Is there a more worthless organism in U.S. politics today? Hey, at least Cruz helped our side get some good folks nominations through the Senate; what has Graham done for us lately, other than provide a rich source of humor?
gene108
@Amir Khalid:
More or less.
In the Constitution the President can negotiate treaties with other countries, but those treaties have to be ratified by the Senate, in order to become law.
Even if President Obama negotiated something with Cuba, the Senate would still have final say on whether or not the U.S. will make what the President did official.
Pococurante
@Joel Hanes: He doesn’t have to – they do it to themselves.
srv
Obama just gave the Republicans Iowa.
Cuban sugar is every scarier than those Mexicans.
Hungry Joe
If we’d had normal relations with Cuba all along, Havana would have a team in the NL East with (at least) a couple of World Series flags over Castro Exxon Park, and Fidel would have been a regular guest on the Tonight Show. The embargo/shunning got us nothing except the care and feeding of wacko Cuban expats in Florida.
skerry
Cuomo to Ban Fracking in New York State, Citing Health Risks
John Dillinger
Here’s that number again:
A Washington Post-ABC News poll in 2009 — the last one that was conducted on the subject — showed that two-thirds of Americans (66 percent) wanted to establish diplomatic relations with Cuba, while 27 percent opposed doing so.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/12/17/obamas-cuba-move-is-popular-on-its-surface/
Tree With Water
@skerry: That’s the first time Cuomo has impressed me.
beltane
My grandparents honeymooned in Cuba back in 1936. My husband and I never went on a real honeymoon. Hmmmm…
RaflW
@srv: I do find myself wondering about the US sugar industry and Obama’s calculus on that.
gene108
@Schlemazel:
Even if they had documents they would have to find a way to get those deeds enforced, i.e. find a judge who’s willing to listen and who has legal standing to get things done in Cuba.
With MNC’s, they have the deep pockets to sue the Cuban government and there already exist courts that can settle disputes between large companies and governments.
The Cubans who fled from the Castro government will probably have a harder time enforcing their will to get back what was theirs than an MNC would.
Cervantes
@Amir Khalid:
Yes, repeal — or stop renewing.
beltane
@gene108: There must be some way to settle these types of claims equitably. It has been done elsewhere and it can be done with Cuba.
shelley
@Tree With Water: Ha-ha. The Wingnuts are still incensed that after the 2014 mid-elections Obama has refused to retreat with his tail between his legs into abject lame-duckism.
Schlemazel
@gene108:
While all thats true there is a lot of money behind the expats & money has a way. It shouldn’t stop the administration from doing what should have been done years ago but it is a risk that needs to be accounted for.
I know there were a lot of ugly scenes in Germany after the reunification. My mom went to take a picture of the house her father was born in and came very close to being attacked by a mob of neighbors who thought she was going to try to claim the property. Different nation, different set of circumstances I know but still a potential landmine that should be taken into account.
trollhattan
@RaflW:
Wouldn’t our current (very high) sugar import tariffs still apply?
RaflW
@trollhattan: I would think so, but I was thinking more about the GOP and conservative stock-in-trade hurt fee fees of rich capitalists/industrialists/agribusiness/etc.
? Martin
Rubio says that “America will be less safe.”
We are the most chickenshit group of people on this planet. What the fuck is Cuba going to do to us? Bomb us with Studebakers?
Josie
Bob Corker is the ranking member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, so I assume he will replace Bob Menendez as chairman. His statement is very vanilla, but, considering some of the other Republicans, that is probably a good thing.
trollhattan
@RaflW:
Put another way: “Wednesday.” ;-)
Villago Delenda Est
It’s fortunate that Huckleberry Closetcase the Clown has no power to assert.
beltane
@? Martin: Cuba used to be far, far away, but the Obamassiah moved it right off the tip of Florida due to his awesome Kenyan superpowers. Be afraid.
beltane
@Josie: If i’m not mistaken, Corker has long been one of the politicians who are quietly opposed to the embargo because of all the $$$making possibilities that exist if it is lifted.
Bobby Thomson
@Schlemazel: So you’re saying that if the Cuban ex-pats stay in the US, there will continue to be trouble, but if they go to Cuba it will be double?
Alex S.
@skerry:
Heh, low oil prices are here to stay?
About Cuba, what is particularly bad about this time? I mean, why is it a ‘bad’ time as opposed to a good or ordinary time?
coin operated
After Teddy Cruz’s spectacular flameout over the weekend, this has got to be one of the most epic bitch slaps in history.
AnonPhenom
@Violet:
More medical doctors as providers under ‘Obamacare’?
Messican and Cubin AMNESTY !!!!!11!!11
‘ I want my country back’
LOL
trollhattan
@beltane:
I presume Sandals and Club Med have their Resort-o-Matic machines fired up and ready to roll the minute the starting gun sounds.
And hey, why not another offshore tax haven for the seven American corporations yet to decamp. Havana is just so…handy.
RaflW
@Martin: Hey, a 100% fact-free GOP has been plenty successful so far, why be different this time?
Though I agree. What I think the GOP doesn’t understand is that only the olds remember the terrible tensions of the missile crisis.
If Americans outside S. Florida and a narrow slice of agribusiness think about Cuba at all, they probably think: Can I get a cheap vacation there? Puerto Rico and Jamaica seem played out.
beltane
@trollhattan: I wonder what the long term impact will be to things like the Miami-Dade real estate market. Some of the South American plutocrats who have been driving up prices may look to invest in Cuba instead.
Mayken
@Joel Hanes: Love! Stealing!
RaflW
@Alex S.:
I suspect that Lindsey was being inadvertently honest. He knows this will not inure well to the GOP, so he has to go full-on histrionics. (That, and he only has one mode: full-on histrionics. Haven’t his voters tired of the old panicky queen yet? I’ll never understand the South).
beltane
@RaflW: Most Americans under a certain age think Fidel Castro was a character in Seinfeld.
Dupe70
@RaflW: This “And I love that this hits the same day as Jebby announcing his “active exploration” phase. It’s almost like Obama is trolling the whole darn GOP. Hmmm.” A million times this.
Napoleon
@RaflW:
Taking a broader frame of reference I recall hearing a few years ago that in general US ag interest were hugely in favor of opening up to Cuba because we could potentially export so much to them.
AnonPhenom
@srv:
How is Cuban sugar any scarier than Brazilian sugar?
skerry
Terri Schiavo’s Husband Speaks Out On Jeb Bush’s Presidential Bid
Belafon
@Napoleon: The US would need to treat Cuba more like the way West Germany treated East Germany, rather than the way the West treated Russia after opening up, for Cuba to become a place worth exporting to.
Schlemazel
@Bobby Thomson:
Should they stay or should they go
come on and let them know
beltane
Some Cuban exiles are ecstatic over this: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/17/us-cuba-usa-florida-idUSKBN0JV27J20141217
Not everyone was a wealthy plantation owner looking to have their property restored to them.
FlipYrWhig
@? Martin:
Cuba sometimes has decent relations with pariah nations, right? I’m guessing he means that baddies will be able to travel more easily from Bad-place-istan to Cuba to the U.S., rather than having to stop in Cuba.
Belafon
@AnonPhenom:
Cuban sugar crystals lean left.
FlipYrWhig
Post title shoulda been: Living Through Another Cuba
skerry
@Tree With Water: I really liked this quote
RaflW
Appeaser in Chief will be the new mantra, I’m told by twitts.
It seems particularly silly. I just cannot imagine that most voters outside the already motivated GOP base will feel negative about diplomatic relations with Cuba.
I may have my own blinders on, but I think the GOP ragegasm (as someone here put it) will be good news for … uh, well not Republicans, anyway.
And claiming that the rusted hulk of Cuba is some sort of existential threat or even a functioning communist country is kinda absurd. Basically, European tourism and a bit of global sugar export is about it for Cuba. Ohhh, terrifying!
Cervantes
@trollhattan:
There was a Club Med resort in Cuba. Varadero. Gorgeous. They sold it off some years ago.
japa21
Hell, if those ex-pats haven’t paid their property taxes since they left Cuba, then they wouldn’t own the property any more anyway. (Don’t know if there were property taxes back then, but it would be interesting if there were.)
Napoleon
@Belafon: I am not quite sure what you mean by that, but I had taken it from what I read that the Import-Export Bank (or something similar) was expected by these ag interest to provide the credit for the exports.
Rommie
@Bobby Thomson: I guess they’ll have to decide to surrender or prepare to fight! Hey, the fundraising shirts are easy to make…
Cervantes
@Belafon:
Laevulose.
Works better in rectal feeding than dextrose.
Wheels within wheels.
Belafon
@Napoleon: I’m sorry. I agree that there are a number of businesses that would be eyeing Cuba as a new export target. I just worry that what we’ll end up doing is rushing in like the West did into Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union, and rather than creating what would have been a good trade parter, created a place where oligarchies could grow.
RaflW
@beltane: Great link. The two pols, Rubio and Mario Diaz-Balart, come off as total shits after all the jubilant Cuban-Americans who were interviewed.
“President Obama’s actions are an unconscionable betrayal of America’s fundamental values and a profound insult to the oppressed Cuban people,” Diaz-Balart said in response to oppressed Cuban people’s relatives rising jubilation (I wish the Reuters article had said).
KG
My mom’s side of the family is from Cuba. I’m glad we’re finally doing this. Should have happened in the mid-90s after the fall of the USSR. It’ll be interesting to see what the rest of the family things.
Buddy H
Open Thread? Here’s what’s happening in our neck of the woods (as Al Roker used to say):
ALBANY – After an extensive presentation by state Department of Health Commissioner Dr. Zucker, which outlined the many health risks and concerns surrounding fracking, the state Department of Environmental Conservation says it will issue a legally-binding statement prohibiting high volume hydraulic fracturing in New York early next year.
Stating that he wasn’t a scientist, Gov. Cuomo said in Wednesday’s Cabinet meeting that he would rely on “qualified experts” in making his decision on fracking.
Those experts, led by Zucker and DEC Commissioner Joe Martens, concluded that there were too many red flags surrounding HVHF to allow it in the state at this time.
During his presentation, Zucker said that “there are many negative potential health effects” to fracking and that, at this time, “the science isn’t there.”
Schlemazel
@japa21:
I think they would have a claim that they could not pay the taxes because they were unable to have access to the property and had it taken by force. My guess is there will be some monetary compensation but Cuba can’t afford that. Shades of the Haitian revolution! Maybe thy can borrow from French banks, that will work out well.
Kyle
This is great. It will make the Repukes look like Grandpa Simpson as they line up with geriatric Batista cronies ranting about scary commies.
Tree With Water
@beltane: People my age had the names (if not much else) ‘Cuba and Fidel Castro’ imprinted into their young brains by the Cuban Missile Crisis, after which it pretty much dropped off the radar, just popping up every once in a while, invariably cast by the American media as a pebble in the U.S. shoe.
AnonPhenom
@Cervantes:
As do the U.S. producers’ & lobbyists
One of those wheels might have a flat.
srv
@AnonPhenom: IDK what Brazil was thinking:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/34ede014-76e6-11e4-944f-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3MBlCzD8Z
Somewhere else I read, they’re talking about importing ethanol from the US now because all their mills are going bankrupt.
Here, if the FT is blocked:
http://farmfutures.com/blogs-brazil-likely-more-ethanol-9176
boatboy_srq
@Violet:
POTUS could have proposed normalizing relations with Mars and Graham would have been against it.
dedc79
Love Faux News’ current headline: “They Win?” with big photo of the Castros, followed by “Critics accuse Obama of selling out in orders to normalize relations with Cuba”
Hey, they’re just posing the tough questions…
KG
@dedc79: I wonder if Fox New has a ctrl+alt command saved for headlines that start with “Critics Accuse Obama of…”
ETA: hell, they might have that for articles
srv
Don’t lose your head:
phoebes-in-santa fe
In the late 1970’s – during the Carter administration – there was a slight lessening in tension between the US and Cuba and companies started looking into doing business in Cuba, when the embargo was lifted. My ex-husband was one of those business people and he looked into the importation of Cuban cigars to the US. He went to Cuba several times to talk to government officials. I was asked along on a trade mission sanctioned by the US Chamber of Commerce. A whole group of midwestern muckytimucks flew to Cuba and we were shown around by the Cubans and allowed to roam freely in Havana.
The last night of the trip, we were invited to meet with Fidel and other Cuban officials. It was hysterical to see all these corporate types salivating over the chance to meet Castro. (There was some grousing that we had to get “dressed up”, seeing that Fidel would probably come in a battered and torn Army uniform. He actually wore a well-designed and fitted Army uniform and he was gorgeous). He just oozed personal charm. (Of course, so, supposedly did Hitler.) We all were encouraged to come up and talk to him during the cocktail time. He spoke perfect English, though he did come with an “interpreter” – a beautiful young woman, by his side. After the reception, he was driven off in a Mercedes.
Anyway, relations were never normalised and my ex didn’t become the sole importer of Cuban cigars in half the country. I emailed him today to ask if he was going to after the deal now. He hasn’t answered me yet; maybe he’s busy trying to get the deal back on!
This should have been done 40 years ago. Shameful policy.
beltane
@dedc79: “They” won a long time ago. The Castro brothers have outlived just about everyone. However, Fox News viewers are, by definition, stupid people so this will be just like Appomattox to them.
gnomedad
So do we add “secret Cuban” to the litany now?
Belafon
@phoebes-in-santa fe: I figure the embargo was just a continuation of the grudge the US has held ever since the Cubans – who did all the work in us saving them from the Spanish in the Spanish-American War – refused to join the United States like they were obviously supposed to.
srv
@beltane:
Eisenhower Castro
Kennedy Castro
LBJ Castro
Nixon Castro
Ford Castro
Carter Castro
Reagan Castro
Bush Castro
Clinton Castro
Bush Castro
Obama Castro
I think I see a pattern
Tree With Water
@phoebes-in-santa fe: I used to enjoy watching Castro in one of his the occasional interviews play the ‘waiting for the interpretation’ game with english speaking reporters. It’s an ancient dodge that Castro employed with almost comedic flair.
jonas
This is also going to play enormously well in the Hispanic community and in Latin America more broadly. The US’s treatment of Cuba over the past 60 years has been a major sore point in US-Latin American relations. It also provides a great opportunity for Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz to appear completely crazy and out of touch with the vast majority of Americans, and 99% of Latinos who aren’t old, bitter Miami Cubans.
There’s not a snowball’s chance in hell that the embargo is going to be lifted in the new Republican Congress, but it does help further heighten the contradictions between the GOP and the Hispanic community. “Crush Cuba and deport your mom!” is not a viable slogan going into 2016.
? Martin
@srv: Contributing to my ‘chickenshit’ comment above. FFS, we’re afraid of possibly-might-be-hacked-by-someone-we-might-think-is-North-Korea now?
Doug r
@Schlemazel: I say just do eminent domain. Here’s some $s for your property , now F off!
beltane
@? Martin: When Borat was released Kazakhstan missed a golden opportunity to threaten an attack on the US unless their demand that all members of Congress wear clown suits to work was met.
beltane
@Doug r: Once property is confiscated, it is rarely returned. I had several Eastern European friends whose family property was confiscated by the communists and who did not get it back after the fall of communism.
Jeffro
@Mike J: Why o why can’t Obama come out against huffing massive amounts of airplane glue? These people would sniff themselves down to a 5 I.Q. within 48 hours.
Doug r
@srv: who’s left?
skerry
Good time to recall that Sen. Marco Rubio said his parents ‘came to America following Fidel Castro’s takeover’ of Cuba (politifact link)
beltane
Here’s a picture of irate RW Cuban exiles protesting. It would seem that the inability to spell simple words is one of this country’s more charming right-wing traditions: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/12/17/1352519/-Miami-s-Cuban-Americans-react-to-Cuba-policy-shifts
Mack
I’m wondering what becomes of the “refugee” status granted Cubans who arrive here. Will they now be subject to whatever immigration policy we eventually pass?
mai naem mobile
I am really proud of my president. This guy is going to go down as in at least the top ten presidents of all top time.
And, Jeezus? Fidel is going to die in the next few years. Hes an old man whos had some major health challenges.
Also, as far Hilary, cue the Bill and Cuban cigar jokes.
raven
@beltane: Who gives a fuck?
Belafon
@Mack: We are very far from dealing with that, which would also require Congress to change.
Matt McIrvin
This is Obama’s Panama Canal giveback: it will THE thing that inflames wingnuts whenever Obama’s name is mentioned for the next 50 years, and nobody else will care.
beltane
@Matt McIrvin: I didn’t realize the wingnuts were still up in arms over that.
raven
Doug Brinkley just said “We have normalized relations with Vietnam and 58,000 Americans died there”.
NotMax
Oh,
LucyLindsey! You got some splainin’ to do.J
Apologies if someone has already said the same thing.
Lindsay G. “I will do all in my power…” ‘Because as a world class idiot, nothing less would do.”
Botsplainer
@Schlemazel:
Actually, there are no land mines at all. If some old domino chomping GOP-voting geezer emigre comes sashaying into a yard waving a pre-revolution deed, a crowd of angry people can beat him to death.
I see it as a positive.
Cacti
Per a June 2014 Florida International University poll, 68-69% of Cuban Americans favor normalized relations and an end to the travel ban. 52% favor an end to the embargo.
The old and the political elite are the ones who favor the status quo.
schrodinger's cat
The Cuba policy never made much sense anyway. Who was responsible for putting it in place? Was it Kennedy?
ETA: Aren’t free-markets supposed to solve everything, so why not open up relations with Cuba? Let the free trade begin.
Villago Delenda Est
@Schlemazel:
Canada, of all places, already addressed this issue…asserting that the United States owed the descendants of Loyalists exiled out of the US after the revolution a metric shitton of wealth for the property confiscated in the process.
Ooops.
Tree With Water
@Matt McIrvin: Goes to show how times change. Philosopher king John Wayne supported Carter’s “giveaway” of the canal. He’d be persona non grata is today’s republican party.
Villago Delenda Est
@skerry: Well, Marco Rubio has an -R after his name, which means that he is unquestionably a lying sack of shit.
mai naem mobile
How come nobodys talking about the rum? Isnt Cuban rum good enough for mojitos or something?
Also too, Obama just handed down some pardons and clemency petitions. Hope Don Siegelmans on it but doubt it.
beltane
@schrodinger’s cat: It was initially put in place right before the election of 1960 so Eisenhower, not Kennedy, though the embargo was expanded in 1962.
Schlemazel
@Doug r:
great! Who is paying?
phoebes-in-santa fe
@Tree With Water: Ha! That’s exactly what it was!
Schlemazel
@Botsplainer:
Agreed but the political ramification, both here and in Cuba may not be as easy as yo and I
Schlemazel
@Villago Delenda Est:
So yeah, that will go well when they come to Congress demanding the payments. And then of course their is the question of the value of a Canadian decision on US residence/companies.
Jamey
Anyone post this yet?
Karen in GA
@Jeffro: “Down”? Or up?
LanceThruster
Get bent, Lindsay.
EthylEster
@Violet: Typical repub response. No explanation is given. Just “Obama, BAD”.
schrodinger's cat
Has Hillary said anything?
NotMax
Not that the media would ever, ever have the cojones to ask him, but would love to see Graham’s face if posed the question “In light of the times then, was the Emancipation Proclamation a bad idea at a bad time? Was it presidential overreach?”
ET
It seems some Cuban exiles in Miami feel betrayed. Why? I always assumed that the policy of isolating Cuba was to get Castro out and for his government to fail. Over the decades nothing has changed in Cuba. In the mean time Communism died and Castro and his government still hung on regardless of what US government policy toward Cuba was. Sure Castro would have died but did Cuban Americans just want useless policies to continue until that point? For what reason? Then what? US relations with Cuba have been on autopilot for over 20 years and as the years passed fewer and few people could bother to care all that much. And our official policy was held hostage by anti-Castro sentiment. I know some of the older and die hard Cuban Americans are a bit miffed that the US government started caring more about the middle east and terrorism and less about Communism and Cuba but to continue on with this until some magical point in the future when Cuban Americans (and some die hard GOPers) were going to give their imprimatur to some change, is just silly. The cold war is over – democracy won. Oh and by the way, it is 2015 not 1965.
EthylEster
@RaflW: Sugar imports are subject to Tariff-Rate Quotas mechanism (WTO related).
Sasha
Have I mentioned recently how much I love our pontifex?
srv
Raul should send a few cases of Cohiba’s to Congress and challenge them to burn them.
That would make a great photo op, all those Republicans wincing.
Goblue72
Obama just dick-slapped Yertle and OJ on national TV.
Even better that it was chocolate dick.
Mike in NC
When going ashore on liberty in Spain many years ago, we were all reminded that it was illegal to buy Cuban cigars. So naturally everybody made a beeline to the nearest tobacco shop to purchase a few as souvenirs.
There is going to be a ton of pressure from American companies on Congress to end the stupid embargo because they stand to make billions in sales and investments.
beltane
The White House has refused to rule out an Obama visit to Cuba. OK, the Pres is just fucking with them now.
Suffern ACE
@srv: Jesus fucking H Christ. I’m going to see that movie and I don’t care which small-ass God tries to shoot me.
I can’t imagine it. You live in a country like North Korea. You have computer skills. You are one of the 3 people in the country who is allowed access to the outside world…and you are forced to give a shit about Seth Rogen when you could be watching p0rn. I think that’s the biggest tragedy in a country full of tragedies.
J R in WV
@beltane: My mom and dad on their honeymoon drove from West Virginia to Miami and flew from there to Havana back in about 1947. The first night they spent at the Greenbrier, a swank mountain resort since about 1840. Miami was a long drive back before interstates!
The flight to Havana was the first time my Mom was in an airplane, and there were tropical thunderstorms all around. Dad kept his cool, and with lightning flickering all around them, the plane swooped up and down the whole flight. I would guess they were in a DC-3 or some such similar airplane…
Dad said Mom thought flying was always exciting like that until they were back in FL when he told her it was exceptionally exciting.
They did the great Cuban nightclubs to dance to the big bands. Their whole lives they loved to dance together, and after retirement took QE II cruises to dance each night after dinner. Those were the days, my friends!
Harry Connick is bringing his big band to town next February. We took Dad a few years ago to see him, it was a great experience for him. The days of his youth were big bands and symphonies, so it worked well for us all.
I hope to be able to see Harry and his band next year, it’s a week after a shoulder replacement, so we’ll see how I’m doing.
Suffern ACE
@Matt McIrvin: Will we have to get upset that the Chinese own the Cuban concessions and then sold it to the A-rabs?
Bokonon
@RaflW: The fact that the GOP base may not feel strongly enough against normalizing relations with Cuba is exactly why the GOP’s apparatchiks are out in force, claiming that this is a move worthy of JIMMY CARTER that will MAKE US LESS SAFE and EMBOLDEN OUR ENEMIES and so on …
They are trying to mobilize their base by pushing all the usual buttons – and framing this whole thing in abstract terms drawn from the War on Terror. So they can poison the water, and start whipping their troops into the usual hysteria they need.
Botsplainer
@Goblue72:
Popped ’em with the BBC, but the one who really got it hard was Cruz, with his daddy batting cleanup…
wilfred
Common sense breaking out is always a refreshing surprise. Congratulations to Obama for recognizing that American foreign policy doesn’t have to be held hostage by a small minority.
Palestine next, Mr. President, what’s good for the goose and all that.
danielx
Ooooh, I just love it when Huckleberry Closetcase gets his undies in a twist and tries to go all butch.
MCA1
@FlipYrWhig: Maybe. My guess would be he didn’t mean anything in particular, but was using the stock phrase “make America less safe,” which has a certain Pavlovian affect on approximately 27% of Americans.
Personally, I look forward to the day I can watch “A Few Good Men” with one of my kids, and when Jack Nicholson’s going on about eating breakfast 300 yards from 4,000 Cubans who are trained to kill him, they’ll go “What the hell is that guy talking about? We just went to Cuba last Spring Break.”
Bitter Scribe
Check out the responses to Graham’s tweet. “Idiot” is one of the kinder ones.
SiubhanDuinne
@Napoleon:
Several years ago I attended a day-long Georgia Poultry & Egg Association conference at The Carter Center. The whole thing was about pushing for the embargo to be lifted for this very reason.
Patricia Kayden
@Tree With Water: Love that analogy but I’m afraid Boehner is orange meat and thus inedible — even for lunatic Republicans.
Perhaps, President Obama can find something for Republicans to rage about every day for the next two years. That would be fun.
Egypt Steve
It’s just as I’ve always said. The louder they scream, the wider they have to open their mouths. The wider they open their mouths, the more shit we can make them eat. Go, Go, BHO!
Karen in GA
@Patricia Kayden:
Who are you, Michelle Obama? I’ll eat whatever inedible unidentifiable substance I damn well please! Don’t tread on me!
D58826
@shelley: In 1996 Jesse Helms pushed thru legislation that encoded the embargo as law rather than just presidential action. Until that law is repealed the embargo, including a ban on tourists, remains in effect. On the other hand there are currently 12 exemptions that allow Americans to travel to Cuba. Obama plans on expanding that list, so it probably won’t be to hard to fit into one of those categories.
SiubhanDuinne
Because of my former employment with the Canadian Consulate General, I have a lot of Canadian friends — at a guess, at least 25% of my FB friends are former colleagues or people I met through Canadian Studies programs. What’s cracking me up today is that the Government of Canada has clearly played a major role in these US-Cuba talks for a good eighteen months. The President made a point of giving Canada a big shoutout in his remarks today. Yet several of my Canadian friends are having a big sad because not allowing US tourists to Cuba keeps prices down for Canadian tourists. Heck, my own cousin is pissed because for years he’s been judiciously handing out Cuban cigars at his BBQ events, and if the embargo is lifted, that exclusivity disappears!! LOL.
D58826
John toture Yoo has joined the GOP chorus that Obama’s actions on Cuba exceed his presidential authority. So it’s ok for a president to order some one waterboarded 183 times but opening an embassy is treason. (sigh)
SiubhanDuinne
@SiubhanDuinne:
Also: Arguably, former President Jimmy Carter helped set the table for the U.S.-Cuba talks. He and Fidel Castro were both honorary pallbearers at Pierre Trudeau’s funeral in October 2000. They were seated next to each other in the Basilica, and by all accounts struck up a friendly-enough conversation that Carter made an unprecedented visit to Cuba about 18 months later.che may not have been directly involved in the more recent talks, but I think he deserves credit for his contributions along the way.
SiubhanDuinne
@D58826:
Can’t wait to read Raven’s report on tomorrow’s “Morning Joe” reaction!!
Raven, we want lots of details and direct quotes, please!
D58826
@SiubhanDuinne: Glad he watches so the rest of us can sleep late
Violet
@schrodinger’s cat:
Saw a headline that she came out in support of it pretty quickly today.
D58826
OT but the US is now saying N. Korea was behind the Sony hacks. Not exactly a big surprise. I am glad to see that in the land of the free and home of the brave all of the movie chains are backing out of showing the film and Sony will not release it on 12/25 as planned. Courage (snark)
tybee
@SiubhanDuinne:
freudian slip?
Matt McIrvin
@RaflW:
Those numbers mean nothing, though, because now the question is just yet another synonym for “do you support Obama?”
It’ll surely revert to the standard “do you support Obama?” numbers in the immediate term, with over 50% against.