Meanwhile, in Clown Car land…
Outgoing Texas Gov. Rick Perry shrugged off wealth inequality, saying the Bible showed poverty could never be eliminated.
“Biblically, the poor are always going to be with us in some form or fashion,” Perry told the Washington Post.
The hell does that mean, anyway? Like, broke-ass ghosts? They just appear in your laundry basket? Poors are the next great renewable resource?
Open thread.
West of the Cascades
What it meant in the Bible was that, because the poor will always be with us, we have a sacred obligation to pay constant attention to taking care of them (that is “true religion” per one of the letters, I think in James). What it means from Perry is “fuck the poor.”
Tommy
I hate to admit I used to live in TX The bible and all.
srv
Well, just like liberals, you can’t shoot them, so you just have to tolerate it all as part of God’s plan.
You liberals, always seeing the gutter as half empty.
Belafon
It means Perry cherry picks Bible quotes and doesn’t get what Jesus was actually talking about when he made that quote.
Yes, Rick, the poor are always going to be with us. Therefore, you have an obligation, one as old as the Old Testament, to take care of them, and even periodically forgive their debts. Are you willing to do that, Rick?
ETA: I am beginning to believe that us atheists believe in Jesus more than most Christians do.
patrick II
The glasses must really be working ’cause Rick is smarter this year. That is the perfect response to win the Republican primary. No more teachin’ immigrant kids for him.
Alex S.
I’m for more progressive taxation.
Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s.
Edmund Dantes
Got buried in last thread, but Supremes unanimously just drove a huge loophole through wage laws.
Employee can force you to go through security and not pay you for time since it’s not integral for work.
Of course, court notes this can be cleared up by congress. LoL
p.a.
And Texas is doing its level best to fulfil this bible prophecy.
? Martin
That’s a great message to poor people: “Don’t bother working harder, you’re poor because Jesus wants it that way.”
Dynamite message from the so-called party of personal responsibility.
raven
@West of the Cascades:
Momma take the pillow from under my head, now
Allelu
Said take the pillow from under my head
Allelu
Now, take the pillow from under my head
Jesus’s gonna make up my dyin’ bed
Then you’ll need that true religion
Allelu
Helmut Monotreme
Ceasar’s been dead for thousands of years though so they’re keeping the money thank you very much.
Cervantes
From Matthew 26 (King James):
JPL
Rick slept through a lot of sermons.
H.K. Anders
Here’s what it means:
“Hey, Conservative Evangelicals! Don’t worry none about that stuff the Bible says Jesus said about takin’ care of the poor. Jesus his own self said ‘The poor you will always have with you.’ True, he was talkin’ about one particular situation where this one ol’ gal was pourin’ some real expensive perfume his head. And Judas started hollerin’ about how she should have sold all that perfume so’s they coulda gave that money to the poor. And then, Jesus said basically, ‘Hey, brother, you can always take care of the poor. They’s always gonna be poor people to take care of. But this gal here is annointing me for burial, since I’m gonna be gettin’ crucified pretty soon. So, quit givin’ her a hard time’ But usgood Republican Christians don’t bother with the stuff Jesus said except the stuff about how we should hate abortion and the gays. I mean, yeah, he didn’t actually say nothin’ about the gays and abortion, but whatever. But my point is, Jesus did say the words, ‘the poor you will always have with you,’ and they ain’t nothin’ wrong with us pretendin’ that what that means is that we shouldn’t try to help the poor with our hard-earned Mammon bucks since nothin’ we do is gonna stop there from bein’ poor people. Capisce?”
That’s what it means.
Derelict
If Jesus ever came back, people like Rick Perry would be the first ones running to the authorities to have Jesus arrested. I guess nobody should be surprised that Perry wears his Christianity on his sleeve while daily repudiating everything Jesus ever said or stood for.
Tokyokie
Well Goodhair his own damn self will never have to worry about being poor, having achieved multimillionaire status despite never having drawn a paycheck from anything other than a government payroll his entire life. If the poor don’t want to be that way, then they, too, can get their asses elected to office and then accumulate kickbacks, but they’re just too damn lazy to do so and don’t have the gumption to do the hard work of soliciting bribes that Rick Fucking Perry, Übergläubige, does.
KG
@? Martin: once Christianity became state sponsored the powerful looked for ways to use it for their own benefit. For centuries, they would remind people that being poor now meant that you’d be rewarded in the next life. Kings ruled via a divine right. Worldly possessions (for the poor) were sins because it wasn’t Christ like.
The opiate of the masses was pushed harder than any real drug ever has been
Villago Delenda Est
There is no Hell hot enough to properly punish the likes of Governor Goodhair.
This is true of all Mammon and Moloch worshiping scum.
max
King James version:
Thus, the poor are the poor, the rich are Jesus, so MORE MONEY FOR RICH PEOPLE.
max
[‘No joke. That’s basically the generic Southern Christian version of the bible. Preachers back in the early 1800’s ‘tuned’ their interpretations to be music to the ears of slave owners. It’s still stuck there.’]
skerry
@West of the Cascades: Evangelicals and RWNJs are not too fond of James.
BC in Illinois
Let’s finish the quotes.
Deuteronomy 15:11 – – “There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded towards your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land.”
Mark 14:7 – – “You always have the poor with you and whenever you will, you can do good to them.“
Villago Delenda Est
@Belafon:
Standard operating procedure for Talibangicals.
low-tech cyclist
@West of the Cascades:
While that is an obligation that is reiterated numerous times in the Bible, it’s clearly not the point of that particular story (Mark, ch.14), which is more along the lines of “you can spend on people you personally care about as well – every spare dollar you have doesn’t have to go to the poor.”
But there’s a big difference between saying that, and saying we don’t have to help the poor. And as you suggest, James (among other places) makes it clear that we must do this.
kindness
We are to be surprised that Perry is a sociopath? No, not really. Look at who he represents. Selfishness and greed are positives to the Koch brothers of the modern era.
Fear used to keep them in line. I think it’s time to start building working guillotines. Maybe that will give them a fear, not of God, their God loves inconsiderate toddler egos. But fear of the common man.
Villago Delenda Est
@max: The roots of modern American “Christian” fundamentalism are in the twistings of the scriptures committed by those early 19th century preachers in support of slavery.
Villago Delenda Est
“When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist.” — Hélder Câmara
Citizen Alan
I just laugh at Republican Mammon-worshipers who bleat about Jesus. I’ve read the Bible, and Jesus was pretty damned specific about who was a Christian and who wasn’t. In fact, he said rather bluntly that the decision of whether a person was going to Heaven or Hell would come down to his answer to the question “what did you do for the least of these?” In Rick Perry’s case, the answer is “I presided over their executions.”
burnspbesq
While you were too sickened by the Senate Intelligence Committee executive summary to notice, Congress cut another $350 million or so from the IRS FY 2015 budget. Your refund will come slower, there will be fewer exams, and the agents doing those exams will be denied the training they need to do their jobs properly. Republican control of the budget process, WAI.
Villago Delenda Est
@? Martin: It’s always personal responsibility for thee, but not for me, with these vile creatures.
skerry
Book of James, chapter 2
Not preached much around Gov Perry, I’d guess
shelley
Re: the daily NewsMax headlines. Poor GNC. Everyday something is ‘hitting it,’ or ‘taking it by storm.’ The place must be like a war zone.
schrodinger's cat
@burnspbesq: The Republicans are doing a great job of destroying the country from within. How much funding have they cut to the NIH, NASA and the like?
ETA: I guess this deserves no mention in our esteemed Newspapers who are busy covering what’s happening at TNR.
Villago Delenda Est
@shelley: They’re pretty resilient, it seems, because they’ve been surviving more onslaughts of this type than Belgium has.
The Dangerman
Rick, let’s talk about what the Bible says about Usury.
Asshole.
PurpleGirl
@Belafon: I wouldn’t say believe in Jesus more than many Christians, but do believe in acting in a more generous manner in the spirit of Jesus than many Christians.
Mike E
Heh, I tuned into Colin Cowherd on my local 99FAN radio, and he had an awesome take on the “I can’t breathe” awareness raising being done by athletes, and the negative reaction…fundamentally unhappy people have a problem with “stupid stuff” because if they liked their lives, they wouldn’t be so upset with LeBron’s t-shirt. Oh, and racism. Good on Cowherd, whom I find to be insufferable sometimes but really good in short spurts.
PurpleGirl
@Edmund Dantes: Once when I was working temp, I had an assignment in the Mobile building. The company’s HR department refused to give me a weekly ID pass that would let enter the building without going through security. The project manager I was working for told me to put down the time I entered the line as the time I started work; he tought it stupid that I couldn’t get the pass. (I ended up working there for three months.)
chopper
@? Martin:
these guys think that rich people are rich because jesus wants it that way, makes sense they’d feel the same about being poor.
Davis X. Machina
Never let a rich man preach the Gospel.
dedc79
I’m trying to think up a new license plate motto for DC in the wake of the latest exercise in hypocrisy.
No taxation with pot deprivation?
Keith P
So incest and leprosy would be biblical things we should tolerate?
Timurid
@Villago Delenda Est:
American fundamentalist Christianity is in many ways similar to paganism, with its emphasis on tribal identity, self-interest, competition and violence. The unfavorable comparisons with Jesus and his teachings are obvious, but even the Classical Greeks and Romans had started to outgrow this way of thinking…
cckids
@Derelict:
I know this song is cheesy as hell, but I’ve always thought it would benefit a lot of “Christians” to think about their ideas of Jesus’s return. What if he came back poor; homeless; female; gay? It would blow their tiny little minds.
burnspbesq
@schrodinger’s cat:
$60 million from the EPA, that has been reported. I don’t have the time or the stomach for a deep dive.
Stan of the Sawgrass
cherry-picking the Bible; I used to hear this one a lot from my mother. (I’m an ex-Fundamentalist atheist.)
Somebody may have gone thru this already, and I’m not going to take the time to look it up, but basically, the situation was this:
a woman went out and bought some expensive spikenard lotion to rub on Jesus’ feet. One of the Apostles or other bitched about it:
“Why didn’t she spend that money on the poor?” Jesus stopped him, saying (paraphrased), “I’m only with you for a little while, but the poor will be with you always.”
Leaving out the context reverses the meaning.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@skerry: Works salvation! Heresy!
More seriously, the grace alone/grace with works schism goes back centuries. In the mid 1970s, Southern Baptist fundies were still teaching that that verse meant that when you are saved, you will want to do good works, but the definition of “good works” has been remarkably fluid. I don’t know that they’re even teaching that any more.
Betsy
Biblically, we would have a Jubilee every 50 years in which all debts are cancelled and land is returned to its original owners.
Also Biblically, every one would sit under his own vine and fig tree and no one should be made afraid.
In addition, each laborer would deserve his wages and no boss would hold back the wages of a laborer overnight.
Moreover, no one shall take advantage of a hired worker who is poor and needy, whether that worker is a fellow Israelite or a non-Israelite foreigner residing in one of the towns of Israel.
Biblically, humans are stewards of God’s creation (“the environment”), which God declared good in and of itself when God made it, and which is the direct evidence of who God is and what God is like, and we are not supposed to destroy parts of it and lay waste to it, but to share its fruits among all people and keep good care of it.
And also, Biblically, people in leadership positions are supposed to make sure this all happens. Particularly, “To whom much is given, much shall be required.”
Amir Khalid
The Washngton Post story gives me no confidence whatsoever that Rick Perry is developing the chops to lead his country. As he prepares to run again for President, he should be talking to subject-matter experts to learn about policy issues. Instead he is relying on daylong tutorial sessions with conservative ideologues, which is going about things all wrong.
Mike E
@Amir Khalid: Da Nile ain’t just a river in the Bible.
Botsplainer
@Derelict:
Jesus might have been kind of a nice guy, but his loudest and most fervent followers are raging assholes.
grandpa john
@skerry: most of them are not happy with Matthew either Since Republican Bibles don’t contain the New Testament, it’s not likely that Gov Goodhair is familiar with Matthew especially chapter 7
Betsy
“Biblically,” Mr. Perry, here is what the Bible says WILL HAPPEN to those who ignore and oppress the poor.
Isaiah 10:1-3. “Woe to those who enact evil statutes, and to those who continually record unjust decisions, so as to deprive the needy of justice, and rob the poor of My people of their rights… Now what will you do in the day of punishment, and in the devastation which will come from afar?”
Luke 1:52 and following: “He has brought down rulers from their thrones, and has exalted those who were hungry. He has filled the hungry with good things; and sent away the rich empty-handed.”
Ezekiel 22:29,31. “The people of the land have practiced oppression and committed robbery, and they have wronged the poor and needy and have oppressed the sojourner without justice… Thus I have poured out My indignation on them; I have consumed them with the fire of My wrath; their way I have brought upon their heads,” declares the Lord GOD.
Jeremiah 5:28 and following. “[The wicked] do not plead the cause, the cause of the orphan, that they may prosper; and they do not defend the rights of the poor. Shall I not punish these people?” declares the LORD. “On such a nation as this, shall I not avenge myself?”
James 5:1-6. Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries which are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments have become moth-eaten. …Behold, the pay of the laborers who mowed your fields, and with you have withheld, cries out against you; and the outcry of the harvesters has reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. You have lived luxuriously on the earth and led a life of wanton pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter.
Luke 6:24. “But woe to you who are rich, for you are receiving your comfort in full.”
Bobby Thomson
@Cervantes: Yeah, that’s one of the instances where Jesus comes across as a self-indulgent prick. And there are lots more, too.
Amir Khalid
@Botsplainer:
As I recall, Jesus tended to discourage loudness and fervour, urging that his followers do good in a quiet and modest fashion.
JPL
@Citizen Alan: When my husband’s aunt died, we went to her service at a small evangelical church outside Chattanooga. The sermon had not to do with good deeds, but whether you were born again. Being born again is what gets you into heaven. They truly believe it.
Bobby Thomson
@Villago Delenda Est:
There’s something in there to support any point because different books had different authors.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@patrick II: I was talking to a co-worker of mine this morning, telling him that if I ran on a straight-up platform of “I’m going to murder every poor person in the United States” – those exact words – that I could easily pull 40+ percent of the vote.
He looked shocked, thought about it, and then looked sad. Because it’s true.
SatanicPanic
It’s awesome that Zandar is back
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Bobby Thomson: Fig tree.
And yeah, there are lots more, as you note.
schrodinger's cat
@Amir Khalid: As promised yesterday,my reaction to Joe Nocera’s concern about TNR.
ETA: To those who have been bored to tears about the TNR story, post has kitteh!
schrodinger's cat
WP eated my post since I tried to edit it more than once, trying again.
@Amir Khalid: As promised yesterday,my reaction to Joe Nocera’s concern about TNR.
ETA: To those who have been bored to tears about the TNR story, post has kitteh!
Cacti
@Belafon:
Funny how none of the “biblical literalists” seem interested in sabbatical years, Jubilee, or the prohibitions against usury.
Miki
“…the day shit is worth money, poor people will be born without an asshole.”
― Gabriel García Márquez, The Autumn of the Patriarch
schrodinger's cat
@JPL: Funny how some concepts are recycled in many religions. Hinduism has a version of the born again thingie too. Only its a more exclusive club, you are eligible to join it iff you are an upper caste male.
Iff = if and only if.
SiubhanDuinne
@Belafon:
QFT.
Betsy
@Botsplainer: I don’t think that’s true.
First, and most importantly they are not his followers just because they’re loud and strident and say “Christ”. Calling on the name of Jesus doesn’t make one his follower. He said that himself. Some will call out his name, and he will say “I don’t know you,” because of their bad acts and unfaithfulness to his commandments of loving one another. (Matthew Chapter 7, Verse 22)
Second, lots of Christians are at the forefront of social justice: ending slavery, advocating for equal treatment of minorities and women, and even bringing lawsuits demanding that gay people be allowed to marry. The United Church of Christ, for example, has been way out in front on all these issues for hundreds of years, and their lawsuit for marriage equality won, ending the ban on gay marriage in North Carolina earlier this year.
beltane
@CONGRATULATIONS!: Worst of all, among that 40% would be many of the same poor people targeted for murder.
skerry
@JPL:
I’ve heard it referred to as “fire insurance.”
Timurid
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
Universal suffrage is the firewall between American politics and total insanity.
If only the upper middle class and above could vote, we’d be a Fascist state by now.
FlipYrWhig
@Cervantes: Wait a minute. I thought the story was about tending to the poor, as other people evoked in the thread. But this is a horrible story. Jesus is being an arrogant dipwad. I think the disciples were correct: don’t waste valuable things on praising Jesus, whose whole existence is _not_ temporary according to the theology of the thing, when they could be being put to better use right now. Bah.
FlipYrWhig
@Bobby Thomson: Whoops, sorry not to acknowledge you had said much the same thing earlier.
grandpa john
@schrodinger’s cat: Our MSM is covering what their masters tell them to cover and ignoring what they are paid to ignore.
Another Holocene Human
@Edmund Dantes: Yeah. That shit is crazy. Big f y to Obama’s Labor Dept which is trying to reverse some of the extensive GWB era damage to wage & overtime regulations.
Someone else noted on the internet that the Supremes have never worked a job in the real economy in their life. Too true.
Note also their hypocrisy on protest zones … harassing protesters for me and not for thee. (Found out last night this bs has spread elsewhere in the English speaking world but the other English speaking countries are moving to eliminate clinic protests.)
Another Holocene Human
@? Martin: Great for whoever declares himself Christ’s avatar (or vicar) on Earth and demands the poor worship him.
Whether it’s a politician, or a preacher.
JGabriel
West of the Cascades:
There’s a word for the type of Christian who knows only that quote from Jesus: asshole.
Belafon:
We agnostics and atheists certainly seem to take Jesus’s teachings more to heart, at any rate.
beltane
@FlipYrWhig: I don’t see it as a horrible story so much as a plea for moderation similar to Hillel’s “If I am not for myself” series of questions, which Jesus was almost certainly influenced by. Yes, it is right to devote oneself to the betterment of the poor and the weak, but not to the exclusion of everything else in life. A little bit of self-indulgence is permitted from time to time, just not to excess.
trollhattan
Everything’s up in California, for better and for worse.
Note to the hippie-punchers who’ve argued with my contention the highest non-vaccination rates are among rural survivalist-types, most of the highest rate counties are populated by exactly that cohort. They truly are the American Taliban.
No way most (any?) of these folks are first-time buyers. Just how many guns is “enough?” [All of them, Katie.]
sparrow
@schrodinger’s cat: NASA and NIH are basically flat in dollar amounts, which means we’ve been on a slow death curve.
Another Holocene Human
@JPL: That’s the old fangled Xtianity. The new fangled Xtianity is somewhere between Calvinist self-study and gematria. You flip through the Bible, pull out one verse, flip through the Bible, pull out one verse, preacher expounds on very very out of context “explanation” of this verse, flip through the Bible, pull out one verse…
After a while the out of context ass-planation becomes the standard interpretation (special services mail this stuff to pastors and churches to repeat on Sun or presumably on Weds), the “flock” are completely used to it, of course if they spout this stuff to somebody from a mainline Protestant church with more than a passing Bible education or to a Roman Catholic that paid attention to their religious education an argument will quickly ensue.
I’ve found that when they start on this stuff with Jews, Jews can’t even identify which Torah/Tanakh passage they’re talking about because of the infelicity of the translations they’re working with, plus the out of context and absolutely no point of context with Jewish religious law or interpretation tradition.
Betsy
If anyone is really interested in understanding more about John 12: 8, where Jesus praises the woman who bathed his feet in costly oil and reprimanded the men who second-guessed her gift to him, here is what I learned in looking into this parable.
This troublesome verse about Jesus blessing the woman for pouring out costly oil on his feet has been the subject of much interpretation and commentary.
Context is everything here. Remember that at the moment of this act, Jesus was consciously preparing for his own death, and was approaching his moment of lowest humiliation and subservience to the will of God: specifically, his sacrifice by crucifixion.
In preparing himself emotionally and mentally for his self-sacrifice, he saw fit to point out and honor the woman who by her act helped him prepare for his supreme gift to humanity. As he was preparing for his own death and burial, the costly ointment was a fit part of that preparation, and in fact would more likely be used upon a corpse rather than a live person. He was thankful to the woman who saw fit to help him and honor his holy sacrifice.
The greater point may be Christ’s calling us to act and and recognizing that although we as humans are incapable of “fixing” the entire world and all its endless sorrows, including widespread poverty, nonetheless we are called and compelled to act AS WE CAN and AS WE KNOW HOW and IN THE MOMENT THAT WE ARE ABLE. Shorter takeaway: Love to Christ transfigures the humblest services.
beltane
@trollhattan: I live in Vermont where most of the rural survivalists are also hippies who are disinclined to vaccinate their kids. Thanks to them, we had a whopping cough outbreak in our town last year.
FlipYrWhig
@beltane: Even Jesus needs a spa day? Still, if that was the point the story should be about a woman who used a fancy ointment on herself and was criticized for it. Instead Jesus says, “Hey, it makes her feel good to praise me, so let her, because I’m not going to be here forever, wink.” That’s a trainwreck of reasoning. Or a sandal-wreck, I suppose.
scav
@FlipYrWhig: There are alternative things to pull out of it. Could be something along the lines of judging on the intent rather than strict conformity to an outwardly defined “perfected” goal. Could be a reminder that there are no single, set, and perfected goals, and that actions can be taken for both long-term and short-term reasons and to multiple peoples needing care (and don’t be misled by mere externals as to who is or is not in need). Could be that costly ointment is totally the must-have male-care perfumed product of the season.
Another Holocene Human
Even though it’s like cargo cult religion or maybe like the Yangs in The Omega Glory who worship the US Constitution without understanding what it means (and not really caring), that doesn’t stop fundy churches from engaging in what is known as “Judaizing”, superficially attempting to recreate or appropriate Jewish religious traditions in their worship and calendar. Usually these people have a really bizarre conception of what Judaism is actually like. I’ve noticed since the Big Abortion Alliance that despised Catholic practice has now become appealing to many fundies. I just about fell out of my chair when I was researching a prayer that appears in some form in both Jewish and RCC liturgy and some fundies were trying to incorporate it into their worship … you’ve got fundies converting to RCC, but also fundies with RCC envy who are trying to recreate anything that they superficially notice about the RCC in their church. It is so weird. I thought the RCC was “the whore of Babylon” according to every Protestant thinker from Calvin on down.
SatanicPanic
@trollhattan: How many is enough? I own several guitars, the only thing stopping me from buying more is not having room for them and not having endless $$$ despite the fact that I can only play one at a time. They’re roughly as useful to me as a guns are to their owners.
FlipYrWhig
@Betsy: That’s kind of the problem, though, for the non-believing me: seems like it ought to be “love/care for one another in the altruistic spirit of Christ” not “love/care for the living Jesus, who is special.” Whoever wrote this New Testament needs a theology lesson!
beltane
@FlipYrWhig: One shouldn’t be surprised if this passage, like several others, wasn’t altered to serve the needs of the church as an institution with its elaborate vestments, etc. Still, extremism in the service of ascetic perfection is its own type of vice.
skerry
Meanwhile in Arkansas, “Clown Car” Duggar wins as Fayetteville overturns a measure providing protection to LGBT citizens.
Another Holocene Human
whore of Babylon, taste the misogyny, this was meant to be offensive and taboo-breaking as they made a mental break from church authority — in metaphor the church is often a woman or a bride — especially during medieval period
Another Holocene Human
@skerry: Jesusland.
Another Holocene Human
I guess the Duggars missed those surveys a few years back showing that evangelical teens had lost all respect for “the church” because of the hating the gays and “church people”, basically because of hypocrisy and hypocrisy
but go on, Duggars, 30 million atheists are not enough, recruit recruit recruit!
FlipYrWhig
@scav: Yeah, OK, but the punchline about how the poor will be with us always (so there’s plenty of time to serve their needs) _but I’m not_ (so it’s not out of line to tend to me lavishly while you still have a chance) is still kind of weird as a moral lesson from a guy whose whole big thing is _not_ dying.
Bobby Thomson
@Betsy: It gets at the fundamental paradox of the Trinity, which led to several “heresies” in the first few centuries of the church. Jesus has to be human, because otherwise his “sacrifice” is meaningless. But he also has to be other than human or else people won’t worship him. The theological solution to this is to say he’s both a dessert topping and a floor wax.
FlipYrWhig
@beltane: Ah, good point: the expensive rituals of worship are not a waste because they serve a higher purpose too. That makes sense from a religious perspective. Still kind of odd coming from Jesus, though.
trollhattan
@SatanicPanic:
I’ll suggest your guitars are infinitely more useful, given that you create music with whichever you’re playing. As Russ Solomon used to say, “Music is life.”
Mike G
Shorter Perry:
“The Bible justifies me being an asshole.”
TXkid
My fondest memory from Halloween this year involved walking by the governor’s mansion in Austin to see a rather inebriated woman vomiting in the bushes in front. Somehow that seems as poignant a statement about Perry’s emission here as any comment I could make about it…
scav
@FlipYrWhig: But, in that you are assuming that he only OKed the action because it applied to himself personally as jebus-special-pants and not as an example arising naturally and illustrating a general point. There’s enough of him chiding those with beams in their own eyes about it to make a more charitable reading possible and he seemingly had form for knocking the diciples upside the head for just not getting it. Maybe he didn’t like purity trolls either.
Another Holocene Human
@FlipYrWhig: That’s why you’re better off just reading the Rambam instead of this “Jesus” (Jesus is a pseudonym) mishmash from multiple sources and then the forged commentaries in the back (they’re all forged because the people who wrote them figured they’d read with more authority with somebody else’s name on it … and whoever wrote Acts, great read, btw, was clearly a frustrated pulp fiction author).
Everything became way more clear when I realized Jesus is a corruption of Joshua, and that’s why all the anti-Roman revolutionaries called themselves “Joshua” and it’s also a popular pseudonym on religious writings including that book the Catholics have and nobody else does, Sirach http://www.usccb.org/bible/scripture.cfm?bk=Sirach&ch=
Yup, author’s name is either Josh or goes by Josh ’cause it’s such a religiousy name.
And there’s a lively controversy as to the particular religious group that the pseudonymous or anonymous source of aphorisms/teachings for the synoptic gospels derives from. Essenes are a popular speculation.
beltane
@FlipYrWhig: It probably wasn’t something actually uttered by Jesus himself. The Gospels were written many years after the events they describe.
trollhattan
@beltane:
Quite possible. Here, our rural folks are largely the shit-kicker set straight out of central casting. Will allow as to the possibility Humboldt County might have a decent percentage of hippies and hipsters than the rest.
kc
Jesus said unto them, “For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.”
Then He added, “Also, too, ye can’t fix stupid.”
Another Holocene Human
@Mike G: Authoritarians are always seeking an authority, bogus if possible, to impress the rubes.
Another Holocene Human
@beltane: Which Jesus, though?
Bobby Thomson
@scav:
This is the most charitable interpretation. Even plausible. The wording is still awkward, though.
trollhattan
@TXkid:
Hilarious. Have never toured the (unoccupied, thanks Nancy) Gov’s mansion here, but my kid did and learned those pesky Brown kids got in big trouble throwing water balloons from the third floor. It is unknown whether Jerry yelled “spectare infra!”
FlipYrWhig
@scav: @kc: I do like the idea of Jesus saying “Verily, ye concern troll be concerned.”
SatanicPanic
@trollhattan: I agree, but you haven’t heard my “music” hehehehehe
One the whole though I think it’s funny how gun owners are crowing about how many Californians are buying guns. Like, sure dude, but for every one person who buys one who never owned one before, there are 10 who are nerds who already own a closet full and are just collecting more.
Edmund Dantes
@Another Holocene Human: sadly obama’s labor dept was on the winning side of this case.
The question should be ‘will the employer allow you to do your job without this step?”
The court ruled that since this step is not actually part of the job and the employer could choose not to do it without affecting your job. it didn’t count even though the employer would fire these employees if they skipped the step.
beltane
@Bobby Thomson: Maybe it was less awkward in the original Aramaic or Koine transliteration.
Another Holocene Human
@FlipYrWhig: It’s odd if you read his explanation (about funerary preparations) because early Christians used to have funeral parties in public basilicas (municipally-owned indoor shopping malls) because if you cried at a funeral it showed you didn’t believe. Shades of a millennialist cult waiting for the end of the world to tear it all down but if God called you to heaven sooner, celebrate.
I’m pretty sure they were meeting at the shopping mall because they were pretty cashpoor and didn’t have their own religious spaces (before Constantine). I’ve seen some suspected Christian home churches from the period of classical antiquity and we’re talking small.
Another interesting factoid, they liked “good shepherd” iconography and the artisans would make Jesus look like Apollo, clean shaven youth with short curly hair.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@FlipYrWhig:
There’s quite a bit in the New Testament about Jesus not wanting to have to be a human sacrifice and doubting that he was really supposed to do it, so to me his reaction falls into that tradition.
Another Holocene Human
@Edmund Dantes: I read some commentary, now IANAL, that SCOTUS was following letter of the law, however it seems to create a legal absurdity which will be quickly abused by unscrupulous employers.
trollhattan
@SatanicPanic:
Heh, well, I don’t judge. :-)
Saw an Elvis Costello solo show a couple years ago and was surprised the stage was set up for two–a stool and a chair each surrounded by guitars and other stringed things, at least half a dozen each. He played the first half from stage right, using every one of the instruments then stood and announced, “And now I want to introduce a very special guest.” as he crossed the stage, then sat down and added. “It’s me” and proceeded to play the rest of the show using each of the other instruments.
Having listened to him his entire career, and seeing him several times before, I only that night learned what a great guitarist he is. And hilarious.
Another Holocene Human
I find Maimonides says less things that need to be explained away and even if you do disagree with him, you can at least say, hey, that was then, he’s a product of his times, this is now.
Lotta problems when you make your religious teacher an actual god and not a man.
YMMV.
Rex Tremendae
Judas:
Woman, your fine ointment, brand new and expensive
Could have been saved for the poor
Why has it been wasted?
We could have raised, maybe, three hundred silver pieces or more
People who are hungry, people who are starving
They matter more than your feet and hair
Jesus:
Surely, you’re not saying we have the resources
To save the poor from their lot
There will be poor always pathetically struggling
Look at the good things you’ve got
Glazius
Actually that bit from Deut 15:11 becomes really interesting in the context of Deut 11:15 (and surrounding verses). If you serve God with all your heart and soul and obey his commands, the land will be full of peace and plenty.
So what does it say about you, O Isreal, that the poor will be with you, always?
And when you, the leaders, say “Oh, that evil woman, using oil that could have been sold to give its proceeds to the poor!” Yeah, admitting that there are poor people means you’ve already failed at being in charge.
patrick II
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
Essentially correct, but I think your pecentage is a little high. 27 is the more likely percent.
Iowa Old Lady
Is this the biggest flood of Biblical quoting and scholarship BJ has ever generated?
Amir Khalid
Off topic:
I saw this delightful headline over a TPM story:
Mike J
@Iowa Old Lady: “Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled.”
Another Holocene Human
@beltane: When did Hillel tell his followers he was secretly Elijah, now don’t tell anybody wink wink?
The transfiguration reads like a bad later insertion anyway, but it’s seriously one the passages I had the most of a problem with when I was younger. I mean wtf, it’s like religion fanfic at best, extremely abusive cult bullshit at worst.
beltane
@Iowa Old Lady: Quite the change of pace, isn’t it? That’s what I love about this place.
Cervantes
@Rex Tremendae:
The Book of Andrew!
Berial
Since Republicans only seem to learn life lessons when something happens DIRECTLY to them or a family member, I suggest all Republicans should be made poor. This is the end of my suggestion.
Matt McIrvin
That “you’ll always have the poor, but you won’t always have me” passage in the Bible is actually kind of weird, and seems more like an interesting character/foreshadowing moment than an exposition of political philosophy.
I second liking the song in Jesus Christ Superstar. Probably the best piece in the whole show.
Another Holocene Human
@Mike J: The archeological record shows that Egypt invaded the Southern Levant at one point. In fact there’s a famous stelae on which a pharoah boasts that he’s killed all the “HAPIRI” men which some argue can be associated with Hebrews. Israel in Egypt was the Egyptian state overrunning Palestine, not Hebrews migrating.
It was not for nothing, as the “Egyptian” parts of the Bible still reflect heavy Egyptian cultural influence.
Iowa Old Lady
@Mike J: LOL. The wisdom of the ages.
Violet
@patrick II: If it was changed to “Those who won’t work will be killed and those who remain poor put in jail” you’d get to 40% easily. Probably higher.
SatanicPanic
@trollhattan: That’s awesome, I always thought that guy was strictly a rhythm guy
bago
Why comcast sucks.
beltane
@Another Holocene Human: Judaism back then contained a lot of weird beliefs that would be considered repellent today and all of that weirdness found its way into Christianity. Modern Judaism outside of the secular mainstream also contains much that is strange and repellent. We take monotheism for granted but it’s kind of crazy if you think about it. Have you read The Golden Ass by Apuleius? It’s about a dissolute young man who joins the cult of Isis, finds happiness, and does not find the need to preach and condemn everyone else outside the cult. Isis worship is no more, but the monotheistic fundamentalists will always be with us.
Jeffro
@Belafon: That is a great point…we’re certainly better at following his teaching than Perry & his ilk
Another Holocene Human
@Matt McIrvin: The Gospels are definitely written after 70AD:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_%28AD_70%29
when Emperor Titus destroyed the Second Temple.
But there’s no real evidence that they predate the Bar Kochba revolt and Emperor Hadrian’s assault on Jerusalem and subsequent enslaving of Jews either. He enslaved so many Jews and brought them to Rome that at one point 1 in 10 residents of Rome were of Jewish descent.
The fusion of the Roman world and Jewish worlds and the apocalyptic nature of the synoptic gospels just scream Hadrian’s Roman-Jewish war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrian#Hadrian_and_Judea.3B_Second_Roman-Jewish_War_and_Jewish_persecution_.28132.E2.80.93136.29
Hadrian was a powerful emperor during the height of Rome’s power and probably hubris brought him of the point of trying to rapidly Romanize Judea resulting in fresh political revolt, which he put down brutally. Interesting that 2000 years later we’re not sure if he actually said he was going to ban circumcision or if that claim was agit prop by the other side.
And yeah, he’s the same guy who’s famous for his love affair with a Greek slave whom he deified after he died in an accident. Hadrian’s temple is a rather impressive building. The Franco-Roman nuts who ran Rome from the medieval to early modern period used it as a fort. I think they had cannon up there at one time. The cremains are long gone. The popes because they are nasty use the porphyry sarcophagus as a baptismal font true fucking story.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@SatanicPanic: 5 basses, 4 electrics, two acoustics and a lap steel. Three bass amps, two guitar amps. Plus a drum kit. But I was doing it for a living for a long time.
Yeah, you can only play one at a time, but damn it’s nice to have a rack full to pick from depending on mood/requirements.
muddy
@Berial: Many of them are. They are idiots.
Bobby Thomson
@Another Holocene Human:
Well, Congress can step in and fix that, then.
I’ll be here all week. Don’t forget to tip your server. Try the fish.
Violet
@Another Holocene Human:
Indeed. There’s Hadrian’s Wall in northern England. He had his army build a wall in northern England. That’s a lot of people you control from a great distance.
Even today, the English refer to long, straight roads as “Roman roads” because they were probably originally built by the Roman Army who didn’t want to deal with all the winding, curving roads when they moved all their military people, equipment and supplies. So they built straight roads.
? Martin
@Mike J: Goes to show that “My emission is like that of horses” has always been a great pickup line.
burnspbesq
@Edmund Dantes:
Bullshit, and I’m sure you know it. Congress created that loophole in 1947. The Supremes’ interpretation is correct; every appellate court that has considered this issue, except the Ninth Circuit, has come out the same way.
This is bad policy. But blaming the right institution is a necessary first step in getting it fixed.
And I don’t mean to blame you personally for this, but saying “Congress can fix this … hahaha” is maddening. Congress CAN fix it, but Congress WON’T fix it so long as ostensibly progressive voters can’t be arsed to show up for midterm elections.
There are days when I think that the essential first step toward advancing a progressive agenda in this country is the wholesale slaughter of self-proclaimed progressives.
Another Holocene Human
@beltane: No. Damn. Struggled through the fucking Aeneid instead. Hated it. Golden Ass looks cool.
Another Holocene Human
@? Martin: Out of which end, the wag asks.
Another Holocene Human
@Violet: They were extremely important commercially as well. They had to accommodate commercial wagons. Until the Franks broke through Roman territory and made the roads unsafe they were central to the economy of Western Europe.
In road building circles they are interesting for being overengineered, with 10 feet of substrate in some cases. Believe they were built at a width of two wagons so they could pass each other.
They’re like railroad ROWs. (The greek world actually did have some stone tracks for transporting stuff out of quarries? I think? but RR as we know it waits for modern steel forging.)
Another Holocene Human
Rome had a congestion charge like London. You had to pay a toll to bring the wagon into the city limits.
Another Holocene Human
@Amir Khalid: That’s like the perfect Scott Walker story.
Another Holocene Human
@Glazius: There’s kind of an ugly idea behind the prosperity versus, IOW the formula, the god can’t fail, it can only be failed, pray harder. Blaming people for their own misfortune instead of accepting that it’s part of life in this universe is an extremely pernicious philosophy.
Mike E
@burnspbesq: A guy named Villago something or another might add the corporate-controlled press to that slaughterin’ list of yours, just sayin’.
ET
Yes Ricky the poor will always be with us, but should we as a society individually and government policy, really go about making more of them and making it harder for them… on purpose?!? And then using the Bible to justify.
I seriously wonder if he actually understood what Jesus message was.
mclaren
I like this reasoning.
Murderers will always be with us, so let’s shut down the police.
Fires will always happen, so why worry? Disband the fire department.
Diseases will always be here, so let’s end the medical profession.
? Martin
@Violet: They built straight roads because Rome’s standard was to build straight roads – that is, they were regulated to be straight as they were regulated as to how to build them – there is a consistent design pattern to all roman roads. Part of that was the practicality of it (less labor, materials, etc) but more of it was the projection of power. Straight roads require accurate surveying, planning, organization and the like. Peasants can’t build straight roads, but Romans can. Roads were infrastructure at a time when infrastructure was startling. They were monuments that served a useful purpose, not unlike the cathedrals built a millennia later.
The straight roads were often also impractical because ‘straight’ took precedence over ‘useful’ in many cases, going straight up a hill at a grade that carriages couldn’t be pulled. There are places where roads got rebuilt or alternatives built to address that. They got better at it.
? Martin
@Another Holocene Human: That sort of deliberate ambiguity only serves to expand the pool of women it works on.
Gordon, the Big Express Engine
This is a great read for those dropping biblical knowledge or for anyone really
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0922233179/ref=redir_mdp_mobile?pc_redir=T1
mdblanche
@FlipYrWhig: But to give even more context these verses come just after the Sanhedrin begin plotting to kill Jesus and just before Judas joins their plot. Jesus’ time living with the disciples was temporary and about to end as He hinted (“My burial”).
But that’s the synoptic gospels. John 12 is even more on the nose when dealing with someone like Rick Perry:
Just One More Canuck
@Another Holocene Human: Two men say they’re Jesus, one of them must be wrong
Another Holocene Human
@ET: The context is that Jews have a religious obligation–or at least a very strong suggestion, opinions vary–to provide food–especially–and, more generally, financial support to the poor.
In fact in the early days of Christianity as a state religion this obligation was also understood but at some point during the medieval era TPTB decided that the church as an institution getting rich was a better mission and the rest is history.
Another Holocene Human
@mclaren: Some Buddhism-based cults definitely have this attitude.
May explain why traditional Chinese attitudes towards Buddhist monks was to treat them as social parasites.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Just One More Canuck: How come Jesus gets industrial disease?
Another Holocene Human
@? Martin: But cathedrals’ useful purpose was as a jobs program for wealthy medieval potentates whereas Roman roads at their best were backbone land route commercial infrastructure for an economy that was highly dependent on long distance trade.
While the Roman economy strikes us as a lot of bullshit today, one needs only look at what happened when the roads became unsafe … the economy collapsed … people abandoned cities and towns and lived a subsistence level in the woods … civilization and literacy evaporated … technology which was tied to construction and commercial clans was lost forever … there was widespread misery and death
I think that’s part of the rise of the Vikings, they used water routes and that became competitive when the Franconian nutjobs and the Swedish-Hunnish SE Europe adventurers made the continent fucking impassible.
Woodrowfan
I was taught that Jesus was rebuking them for being dishonest and using the gift as an excuse not to give to the poor. “Hey, just because the lady did something nice for me, that doesn’t prevent you from helping the poor.” “the poor with be with you always” is a reminder that the obligation to help the poor IS ALWAYS THERE TOO.
Heliopause
“The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me.” Matthew 26:11. Variations appear elsewhere in the gospels.
It should be pointed out here that Perry is misusing this putative quote, in which Jesus is making several interlocking points:
1. That he is divine,
2. that his sacrifice is imminent,
3. that he is not interested in social policy, but rather that individuals maintain a positive relationship with the Deity.
Perry’s job, on the other hand, is in fact explicitly about social policy, so what Jesus says here is of no relevance.
Violet
@Heliopause: Rick Perry thinks he’s divine. He’s also completely uninterested in social policy. As for “sacrificing himself imminently” I’m sure if you asked, Rick Perry would tell you all about the big sacrifices he’s made to “serve the people of Texas” instead of whatever else he thinks he’d he doing.
kdaug
@Another Holocene Human: Ah, but the Yangs couldn’t _read_ the Constitution (not the most literate bunch apparently).
It’d be like the Bible were still written in Aramaic, never translated – no one would really know what the chants meant.
Christians don’t have that excuse.
Mike E
@SatanicPanic: Yeah, but your machines kill Fascism!
Another Holocene Human
@kdaug: The KJV is pretty impenetrable to most English speakers on this planet.
Tone In DC
@dedc79:
Every so often the g00pers in Congress feel the need to remind Washingtonians (and, often many other Americans) exactly what they mean by limited government.
I still can’t believe people in any part of Maryland (Hagerstown, Eastern Shore, Waldorf, St. Mary’s, wherever) voted to re-elect that asshole Harris. He acts like he comes from a district in VA, just outside Emporia.
We all know big pharma doesn’t want marijuana, medical or otherwise, to be legalized (the same way big pharma doesn’t US Americans from Michigan, Montana, Ohio, New England, and other northern locales and such as, buying cheaper Canadian drugs).
Pfizer, Merck and AH Robins tell Harris and the rest of the g00pers to jump, and the wingers scream, “How high?”
And these g00pers HATE that DC is a rather liberal place.
Last, we all know locking people up for buying a dime bag is a favorite past time of police forces. Like the NYPD, and those trigger happy fuckers in their armored vehicles in Missouri.
Limited government, my ass.
Sad_Dem
@Citizen Alan: This. I’m an atheist who’s read the Bible, and it never ceases to amaze me what the people who claim to believe its message entirely say it says.