No Good Deed Goes Unpunished

Here’s a fascinating graphic showing where people have benefited the most from the ACA:

aca

If you notice, the people who have benefited the most from the ACA are also the ones who hate it the most and will be hammering the Democrats in the next election. There just must be something about the President they just don’t like.






102 replies
  1. 1
    the Conster says:

    His ears?

  2. 2
    Baud says:

    That chart would be even more skewed if those states had taken Medicaid Expansion.

    For good measure, we could find out Monday if the Supreme Court will hear the challenge to the Obamacare subsidies in states that didn’t set up their own exchanges.

  3. 3
    Baud says:

    @the Conster:

    Yeah. They’re the wrong color.

  4. 4
    Violet says:

    They like it just fine if you ask them about the specific provisions in it. “Do you like being able to get health insurance without considering pre-existing conditions?” “Yes!” “Do you like no lifetime maximum?” “Yes!” “Do you like that your kids can stay on your insurance until they’re 26?” “Yes!” Etc. Etc.

    They like it just fine. What they don’t like is “Obamacare.”

  5. 5
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Violet: What they don’t like is “welfare,” which is what they think “Obamacare” is. Sumptin’ for nothin’. [spit]

  6. 6
    greennotGreen says:

    Uh, no. If you’ll notice, Tennessee benefits almost not at all, the result of our electorate putting in office people who would rather the citizens die young, stupid, and broke rather than do anything – like expand Medicaid – to make the Ni-clang in the White House look good. So, not working just as the Republicans intended here in the midsouth.

    Now, just to the north in Kentucky, where they did expand Medicaid, the Turtle is trying to pretend the benefits of Kynect have nothing, nothing so ever! to do with Obamacare.

  7. 7
    Baud says:

    @greennotGreen:

    Looks like Cole’s state isn’t doing to shabby either.

  8. 8
    samiam says:

    Meanwhile, addicted to being cynical Cole has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to say about the US pulling out of Afghanistan. We all had to listen to years and years of his pissing and moaning about how war is bad so stop all war and other deep thoughts from this armchair general! Now when the US is finally done with Afghanistan it’s nothing but crickets from the whiner in chief around here.

  9. 9
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Violet: And they themselves aren’t benefiting from “Obamacare,” of course. They just got what they deserved, finally. But Those People, you know the ones, always looking for a handout… They’re the ones who Obamacare was cooked up for.

  10. 10
    Mnemosyne says:

    Swiped from berial in one of the threads below, Politico magazine (of all places) has an in-depth article about why Mississippi ended up even more screwed than anyone else:

    Mississippi Burned

    It’s okay, it’s by a writer from Kaiser Health News, so it actually has facts and useful information, unlike the usual Politico article. Short version: intra-Republican fighting (Heritage Foundation vs. Tea Party) killed health insurance reform in Mississippi.

  11. 11
    El Caganer says:

    @samiam: They’re benefiting from Obamacare in Afghanistan? Well, shut my mouth.

  12. 12
    gene108 says:

    I attribute it to the fact the media has been hijacked by right-wingers, so everything the media reports is filtered through the right-wing perspective.

    It’s like the freak-out over, “if you like your insurance, you can keep” was reported as a flaming-liar-liar-pants-on-fire-lie by President Obama, when insurance companies rescinded plans, rather than framing it the context of how the insurance companies are making these changes for their own reasons.

  13. 13
    joel hanes says:

    @samiam:

    We all had to listen

    Um, no. Reading Balloon Juice is about as far from compulsory as anything can get.

    Complaints that the front-pagers don’t post on the topic on which _you_ want them to post, on a timetable that matches _your_ priorites, merit only one response:

    Get your own blog.

  14. 14
    Cervantes says:

    There just must be something about the President they just don’t like.

    He’s been sleeping with a Negress?

  15. 15
    Baud says:

    Chris Hayes is showing Chris Christie bullying a protestor regarding Sandy. Quite a contrast to how Obama treats hecklers.

  16. 16
    Cervantes says:

    @samiam: Others can speak or not speak about “the US pulling out of Afghanistan.” Is there something you’d like to say about it?

  17. 17
    Howard Beale IV says:

    @greennotGreen: Didn’t Tennessee have something before the ACA came along-I believe it was called TennCare?

  18. 18
    mdblanche says:

    Some of the people who have benefited the most from the ACA are also the ones who hate it the most and will be hammering the Democrats in the next election, mostly in those Appalachian states whose governments aren’t run by saboteurs. I see other areas on the map that benefited more than most that where Democrats will do quite well like the Black Belt of the Deep South, the Rio Grande Valley, and an assortment of reservations and tribal lands in the Midwest, Northwest, and Southwest. Of course, none of this contradicts your larger point, does it?

  19. 19
    El Cruzado says:

    Actually South Texas is where all the Browns live (oversimplifying in case it wasn’t obvious). And those guys don’t mind Mr Obama that much overall.

  20. 20
    Cervantes says:

    @Howard Beale IV:

    Still exists. They also have a version for kids, called TENNderCare.

  21. 21
    Pete says:

    His stance on ethics in video games journalism?

  22. 22
    chopper says:

    @Baud:

    Praise Allah, given how accident prone the dude is.

  23. 23
    Howard Beale IV says:

    @Pete:

    His stance on ethics in video games journalism?

    Oh, FFS, trade journalism is as corrupt as they come. The fact that the slackjawed attocephalic GamerGate mouthbreathers hasn’t figured that our yet shows just how imbecelic they really are.

  24. 24

    Those people deserve it! Shut up moochers!

  25. 25
    mdblanche says:

    @greennotGreen: Unfortunately McConnell’s task is made easier by how Kynect downplayed being part of Obamacare during the enrollment period. Out of justified fears pointing this out would discourage people from signing up.

    @Cervantes: You mean like the man they think we should have elected in 1948?

  26. 26
    Mike in NC says:

    @mdblanche: Strom Thurmond wouldn’t stand a chance in today’s GOP. Too much of a mushy moderate!

  27. 27
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @efgoldman: Guess it’s my turn to leave town, huh?

  28. 28
    Keith G says:

    @gene108: Partially. In the future, these Democrats, from the top down, will be used as a textbook example of messaging fail.

  29. 29
    Cervantes says:

    @Howard Beale IV: That was a joke.

  30. 30
    PsiFighter37 says:

    Terry McAuliffe needs to find a way to take Medicaid expansion without having to get approval from the state legislature.

    That said, this entire thing is all John Roberts’ fault – saved the bulk of the law but still made sure there was a way to screw the poor hard.

  31. 31
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Cervantes: Don’t often see the word attocephalic, though.

  32. 32
    KG says:

    In fairness to those people who have been helped by obamacare but hate it so much, you have to remember who they are. You’ve got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know… morons

  33. 33
    Pen says:

    Notice how nobody seems to be taking advantage of the ACA in Wisconsin? Yeah, that’s what happens when your state purposely screws over it’s citizenry and makes the rates prohibitively expensive and subsidies almost impossible to qualify for. It really makes the part of Minnesota I can see from my back window more appealing every day.

  34. 34
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Pen:

    It really makes the part of Minnesota I can see from my back window more appealing every day.

    There are Vikings fans over there. Be careful. Are you on the St. Croix or the Mississippi?

  35. 35
    greennotGreen says:

    @Howard Beale IV: I deal with nano- on a daily basis, used femto- in my previous job, but I had to look up atto-. Thank you for expanding my concept of smallness!

  36. 36
    mdblanche says:

    OT: I’ve been mentally screening any political ads I see out, but after just now seeing two ads in a row for the same candidate I’m now totally sick of them.

  37. 37
    Cervantes says:

    @mdblanche: That man had the grace to do it secretly. Obama is shameless about it.

  38. 38
    Hal says:

    @Baud:

    Chris Hayes is showing Chris Christie bullying a protestor regarding Sandy. Quite a contrast to how Obama treats hecklers.

    Now watch the media give Christie a tongue bath because of how bold and tough he is. Obama is such a wimp he refuses to insult teachers, parent and veterans who are not sufficiently impressed by him, unlike Christie.

    Also, and keep in mind I say this as a fat guy, has Christie lost any weight since his surgery? I’ve done a bunch of research on weight loss surgery and the lap band I thought wasn’t recommended for guys Christie’s size. He looks the same to me but I haven’t seen him squeezing into any chairs on late night tv recently.

  39. 39
    PurpleGirl says:

    @Baud: Christie’s reputation is that of a bully, it’s his basic and core personality trait. He’s a sociopath.

  40. 40
    Keith G says:

    There just must be something about the President they just don’t like.

    Your implication: They are racist. Why not come out and say it?

    I don’t disagree. There is much racism in the opposition to Obama. It seems to me that your statement:

    …the people who have benefited the most from the ACA are also the ones who hate it the most and will be hammering the Democrats in the next election.

    was formulated too quickly to be as wise as you may want it to be.

    I bet that most/many of the people who have benefited the most from the ACA (as symbolized on the above map) are supportive of Obama (from the NYT)

    The biggest winners from the law include people between the ages of 18 and 34; blacks; Hispanics; and people who live in rural areas.

    Are these the racist Obama haters you are referring to?

    There are many very good reasons to feel good about the ACA. There are some legitimate reasons for some to feel distrustful of it. For the latter, racism is in the mix, but it is only a part of the mix. Having Democratic office holders and candidates running away from the ASCA is also in the mix. As is this administration’s own problematic efforts at marketing and branding it.

    One anecdote: I work with a conservative woman who was, in 2009, sure that Obamacare was beyond worthless – that it would be destructive. Five years later, she sees the help that this reform has given to members of her own family and folks she works with. Her opinion has changed. For her, experience trumped messaging. Unfortunately, millions of others do not have experience to connect to. They only have the messaging.

  41. 41
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @samiam: I guess you’ve been watching the BBC. The UK left. We left Helmand, but we’re still in the country and will still be there after the end of the year (as trainers, etc.).

    HTH.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  42. 42
    skerry says:

    @PurpleGirl: He is a bully who will never be president. His personality might play in NJ, but it won’t in the “heartland”.

  43. 43
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @efgoldman: Yeah well, I am currently listening to Scott Walker misconstrue statistics. Okay, House Hunters is back on.

  44. 44
    Irony Abounds says:

    Arkansas, Kentucky and West Virginia (sorry Cole). The holy trinity of in-bred know nothings. And you can bet that when the Republicans find a way to take away the coverage they’ll find some way to blame Obama and the Democrats for the loss of coverage.

  45. 45
    billb says:

    Well I can speak for us poor olds over 55, that got bumped up into Medicare early. HAIL OBAMA, you rock dude! And the same goes for Nancy and Harry and every member of Congress that had the stiff spine to vote the right way for our people.
    AND to you KochSucks, we will be sending our stud, Jeff Merckley back to the Senate in spite of your many stupid expensive ads.

  46. 46
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    There just must be something about the President they just don’t like.

    As usual, I’m at a loss to figure out what that might be.

    Does it have anything to do with nearness, I wonder?

  47. 47
    Violet says:

    @Hal:

    Now watch the media give Christie a tongue bath because of how bold and tough he is. Obama is such a wimp he refuses to insult teachers, parent and veterans who are not sufficiently impressed by him, unlike Christie.

    Such a tongue bath. Happened to catch a segment about it on NBC Nightly News. Kelly O’Donnell was the reporter and they had a shot of her walking with him–she’s all smiles and practically laughing. They showed the protestor and Christie really tore into him. The package from O’Donnell highlighted Christie’s toughness. Brian Williams didn’t seem quite as impressed, though. Said something about how it might not play that well in other parts of the country.

    Also, and keep in mind I say this as a fat guy, has Christie lost any weight since his surgery? I’ve done a bunch of research on weight loss surgery and the lap band I thought wasn’t recommended for guys Christie’s size. He looks the same to me but I haven’t seen him squeezing into any chairs on late night tv recently.

    He definitely lost weight initially but it seems to have slowed or maybe he’s even gained weight. He still looks heavy.

  48. 48
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Keith G:

    Your repeated failures to update your sarcasm detection algorithms has been noted and logged.

  49. 49
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Obama is a close talker?

    @Violet:

    Said something about how it might not play that well in other parts of the country.

    I’ve been saying that for a long time. That type of brash, bullying confidence (to put it politely) doesn’t really play that well outside of the Northeast. We may elect assholes in the Upper Midwest, but not that kind.

  50. 50
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @KG: DING DING DING DING DING

  51. 51
    redshirt says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: It’s the bad bowling and arugula.

  52. 52
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Cervantes: Nichelle Nichols? The man has EXCELLENT taste.

  53. 53
    Mandalay says:

    @John Cole:

    If you notice, the people who have benefited the most from the ACA are also the ones who hate it the most and will be hammering the Democrats in the next election

    I don’t accept that. Do you really think that dark band is SW Texas, representing a heavily Hispanic population that has benefited from the ACA, are also the ones who will be hammering the Democrats?

    You really shouldn’t conflate those who benefit from the ACA with the politicians who happen to run their state. Notably, from your map, the red south eastern states do not appear to have especially benefited from the ACA.

    Also, if you compare your map with a map showing the density of Hispanics there is a fair correlation nationwide.

    However, TN, WV, AR and AR are notable anomalies. I suspect a map showing the rural poor population distribution nationwide would show an even greater correlation with your map, though I couldn’t find one of those.

  54. 54
    Suzanne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, you’re right. Most of the rest of the country thinks New Yorkers and New Jerseyers (whatever) are brash and abrasive and rough. Having grown up on Long Island and living out here with a shit-ton of Mormons, I can definitely testify that they don’t like us. Their loss. We are funny and awesome.

    I have to admit that even though I hate everything Christie says and stands for, there is part of me that kinda likes the guy. He’s a hardass and is brash, which I like. I would never vote for the dude, but I don’t find him as awful as the slimy used-car salesmen from the South. Lindsey Graham, I’m looking at you.

  55. 55
    Violet says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, I don’t think that kind of asshole behavior will play well there. The first time he insults a teacher or nurse in Iowa it’ll be big news there and won’t be received well.

    I don’t think it’ll play well west of the Mississippi in general. People in other parts of the country may like to watch The Sopranos on TV but they don’t want that kind of person to represent the country.

  56. 56
    Violet says:

    @Suzanne: My experience in working in an office full of Mormons is that they’re all about how it looks on the outside. There are expectations and roles to fill and you have to do that, have your family all in order and show up to church with a smile to do your part–as assigned by the church leaders. There isn’t a lot of room for failure.

    Based on that experience it doesn’t surprise me that Utah has the highest pr0n usage of any state and the highest antidepressant usage.

  57. 57
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @efgoldman: RI, too.

  58. 58
    Suzanne says:

    @Violet: They also tend not to approve of certain behaviors, like swearing, or talking about anything even remotely saucy, or sarcasm, or really anything contentious (and therefore interesting). Especially for women. High cultural value on ridiculous levels of cheerfulness and pleasantness. So brashness doesn’t,t work so well.

  59. 59
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Suzanne: My Northeastern background comes from two things: some time in Fairfield County, Connecticut (Newtown) and a shitload of WASP Puritan ancestors. Neither of the these are conducive to an affinity for the Christie/Giuliani style of politician. I prefer my Northeastern politicians to be patrician Dems like FDR, Howard Dean, and John Kerry.

  60. 60
    mdblanche says:

    @efgoldman: You’re in RI, right? So am I. It was two Raimondo ads in a row. It’s overkill if what I’m hearing from my wingnut relations is anything to go by. Raimondo should have this in the bag since none of them are crawling over broken glass to vote for Fung. Something about his eyes, if you know what I mean.

  61. 61
    Violet says:

    @Suzanne: Yes, I’m well aware of that cheerfulness and pleasantness. I lived it and worked with it for awhile. It was grueling. One woman was clearly unhappy but absolutely unable to admit it to anyone, least of all herself. Her sing-song-y voice and forced smiles were tortuous to be around. If people are actually happy that’s fine but when they’re not and have to act happy it’s terrible.

  62. 62
    Suzanne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I hate bullshit. I like truth, even if it is unvarnished.

  63. 63
    Suzanne says:

    @Violet: In my experience, it is almost always fake. And it is awful. People who are genuinely happy and positive are a pleasure. People who are faking it are hell to be around. Especially when they will only have conversations about the shallowest of topics in order to avoid meaningful engagement.

  64. 64
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Violet: The only Mormon I have known well was a guy in my law school class. He had fairly standard right of center views on most legal issues. He was also married with kids and so on… OTOH, law school was one of my more libertine periods and the school was small enough that my reputation and behavior was well known. He never showed the least bit of judgment of my personal life. He was also rather useful to have in a study group since he sincerely disagreed with my interpretations of most legal issues. He made me think things through and articulate them more clearly. I bet I did the same for him.

  65. 65
    Mandalay says:

    @Violet:

    Based on that experience it doesn’t surprise me that Utah has the highest pr0n usage of any state and the highest antidepressant usage.

    The fifth highest suicide rate as well. I guess even the joys of pr0n and pills wear off for some eventually.

  66. 66
    Birthmarker says:

    @Keith G: The ads here sneer “Obama liberal.” It’s ridiculous for no one in the national party to have taken up for the man, and this BS has been allowed to go unanswered for 6 years. Heads should be hanging. Our media is so useless it’s sickening.

  67. 67
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @efgoldman: I am becoming increasingly convinced he won’t win.

  68. 68
    Violet says:

    @Suzanne: My actual boss, a man, was truly lovely. Although Mormon he had a good sense of humor and didn’t always shy away from difficult discussions. He was one of those people who could navigate a difficult discussion with tact and honesty. A real gem. His wife was lovely too although I didn’t know her as well.

    He brought in the rest of the Mormons from his church–all women. They were nice enough but like you said it was often fake and made them really uncomfortable to work with.

    I really loved my boss but my exposure to the women was enough to turn my view of the LDS church completely. I can’t imagine living like that, not allowed to be honest. No wonder they’re all on antidepressants.

  69. 69
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Suzanne: Well, here is the thing: When I was in the army I once heard an instructor at a course say to a student, “Well, that’s a technique, but not the preferred method.” He was clearly saying “If you use your plan, you and everyone with you will die. This is one of the dumbest ideas I have ever heard.” Cultural norms differ.

  70. 70
    Violet says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    He never showed the least bit of judgment of my personal life.

    My male Mormon boss was that way. He never once said an unkind or judgy word about anyone–that I heard anyway. The office had plenty of people with different lifestyles–one woman’s flamboyantly gay son would waltz into the office without warning and talk loudly about his activities with his partner, various single mothers (no fathers ever mentioned), the chain smoker, the lesbian, etc. Not a word from him at all about any of them.

    The Mormon women, on the other hand…plenty of tut-tutting and low voiced comments. And plenty of attempts to convert.

  71. 71
    Suzanne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I much prefer “that’s the fucking stupidest shit I’ve ever heard” to “well, that’s an option….”. Just say what you mean. I interpret that level of guardedness as dishonesty and falseness.

  72. 72
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Violet: The guy I knew, I have no negative things to say about him personally. Professionally, I oppose just about everything he has done. He works for the Utah AG.

  73. 73
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @efgoldman: Might have been different moments. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen two Raimondos in a row. I know I’ve seen a Raimondo and a Fung in a row, but I don’t have the trained ear you do for the voice-overs. By this time it’s hard to fit in any other ads besides the politicals.

  74. 74
    Violet says:

    @Suzanne: Don’t go to England then. No one says what they mean. Hell, the highest compliment you can give is that something is “not bad.” Seriously, saying something is “great” would mean it’s less good than saying it’s “not bad.”

  75. 75
    Violet says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: My former boss was amazing in his field. I have nothing but the highest praise for what he did where we worked. It wasn’t a political field so I’m able to praise his decisions without considering any political consequences. Even so, he did things that would be considered liberal-minded, like work toward inclusiveness rather than stick with the existing hierarchical structure, etc.

  76. 76
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Violet: I actually am able to function not badly there.

    ETA: One of the highest compliments my mom will give is to call something cute.

  77. 77
    Suzanne says:

    @Violet: I just watched Madison Bumgarner be presented with his trophy and Chevy Colorado, and I told my husband that this is “such unmitigated horseshit”. You see how I roll.

    The British are okay, though. You’re right that they understate things, but they do disapprove vehemently. Especially when alcohol is involved. I like it.

  78. 78
    mdblanche says:

    @efgoldman: No, I meant I saw two Raimondo ads in a row earlier tonight. It wasn’t during the news at least.

    ETA:I think at least one of them was from an outside group.

  79. 79
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Suzanne: It isn’t though. I knew what was being said. It was crystal clear. It just wasn’t confrontational. Politeness and indirectness isn’t dishonesty; it is avoidance of embarrassing the other party. “I am not sure that dress is particularly flattering,” says you look fat in that dress, but no one has to say or hear it.

    During my time as an army officer, I tended to phrase most of my orders to subordinates as requests (Could you run over to Battalion HQ and see if that paperwork we need has come back, please?). It left me room to escalate. If I shouted “Do this right fucking now!”, it had meaning.

    ETA: There are a couple of commenters around here who have annoyed me to the point that I ignore Midwestern nice.

  80. 80
    Heliopause says:

    If you notice, the people who have benefited the most from the ACA are also the ones who hate it the most

    No, that’s not what the chart shows. What the chart shows is that even in places where proportionally more people have benefited the majority haven’t seen a change noticeable enough to them personally to cause them to change their voting patterns. That’s not a criticism of the law, by the way, just a realistic assessment.

  81. 81
    mdblanche says:

    @efgoldman: I still haven’t heard who Cicciline’s opponent is, but I’ve seen a bunch of ads from Zaccaria, Reed’s opponent. I have to give him credit at least for bleating more than the previous sacrificial lambs who ran against Reed.

  82. 82
    DTOzone says:

    @Keith G:

    One anecdote: I work with a conservative woman who was, in 2009, sure that Obamacare was beyond worthless – that it would be destructive. Five years later, she sees the help that this reform has given to members of her own family and folks she works with. Her opinion has changed. For her, experience trumped messaging. Unfortunately, millions of others do not have experience to connect to. They only have the messaging.

    and who is she voting for Tuesday?

  83. 83
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @DTOzone: It is a process. We won’t get them all at one go. Making ’em Dem curious is a good first step.

  84. 84
    Suzanne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I have never wanted to visit or move to Minnesota because I hear everyone is just ridiculous nice, and I can’t deal. I also tend to ask my underlings to do things and say copious amounts of pleases and thank yous, but I have been taken advantage of, as well. Some people seem to think that if I ask them to do something, it’s genuinely a choice. I don’t know if that’s because people are stupid, or if they genuinely think I am just asking for fun. No, do your damn drawings.

    One extra benefit at my current place is that they flat-rate bill, so I can do my drawings myself and don’t have to hand them off to a lazy idiot.

  85. 85
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    During my time as an army officer, I tended to phrase most of my orders to subordinates as requests (Could you run over to Battalion HQ and see if that paperwork we need has come back, please?). It left me room to escalate. If I shouted “Do this right fucking now!”, it had meaning.

    This is how I operated as well. My subordinates knew that my wishes were the equivalent of orders, but phrasing them as requests got better results than barking orders, and always left, as you indicated, plenty of room to maneuver if the situation called for it.

    My first battalion commander offered some advice to the junior officers that always stuck with me. Using the phrase “this is a direct order” created a situation where if it was disobeyed, you had to follow through with the full force of the UCMJ, which can get messy and tedious, but fast. “Direct orders” have the force of law behind them. My NCOs were also advised to be cautious about using the “lawful order” phrase, as it too implied legal sanction if it was not carried out.

  86. 86
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Suzanne:

    I also tend to ask my underlings to do things and say copious amounts of pleases and thank yous, but I have been taken advantage of, as well. Some people seem to think that if I ask them to do something, it’s genuinely a choice.

    This was easy to handle. If the person says they are busy, I would just up it to a “Go do it.” Sometimes, the soldier would offer a legitimate reason for saying no, like the battery commander (my boss) had told him to do what he was doing. If that happened, I would pick someone else.

    Also, it isn’t NICE. It is a different way of interacting. Disapproval, hatred, and the like come through clearly. If you know the code. If you go from a region where subtle disagreement is the norm to the Northeast, you may well feel that that people are fucking rude assholes.

  87. 87
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Most soldiers respond well to ” Could you. please….” Getting shouty is generally counterproductive. I did it a couple of times to show that I could and was willing to, but that was it . Usually a quiet word in a sergeant’s ear was all that was ever needed.

  88. 88
    Suzanne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I had a couple of underlings who would just….go home at 5:15 or whatever time, even if they didn’t finish their work and we were on a deadline. I can’t tell you the number of times I ended up in the office until 9 pm or later doing the work I had assigned to someone to complete, who knew about the deadline, and just didn’t want to stay to get it done, or to work fast enough during the day to push through it. In my industry, I am not sympathetic to that. I am in a deadline-driven field, and that sometimes means late nights or weekends, unpaid. The head of my office told everyone that overtime was mandatory, but people smiled and nodded and then didn’t come in. I was essentially told that none of those people would face any consequences for their behavior because they didn’t want to be hardasses. They just wouldn’t promote those people to higher levels. So I bailed. I am not doing other people’s jobs. A friend who still works there told me that they have been extending lots of job offers and everyone is turning them down. Guess why.

  89. 89
    Violet says:

    @Suzanne: Pub communication–as in, when people have been drinking–is not the same as communicating in business settings or routine things like shopping or meeting friends or faimily. There’s a lot less understatement when alcohol is involved but it’s still there. As an American who is used to communicating more directly and forthrightly, the roundabout way of saying you don’t like something is challenging. Despite having English family, so you’d think I would have learned by now, there are times I still have no idea where someone stands on an issue. I simply can’t translate what they say.

  90. 90
    AxelFoley says:

    @samiam:

    Meanwhile, addicted to being cynical Cole has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to say about the US pulling out of Afghanistan. We all had to listen to years and years of his pissing and moaning about how war is bad so stop all war and other deep thoughts from this armchair general! Now when the US is finally done with Afghanistan it’s nothing but crickets from the whiner in chief around here.

    LOLOLOLOLOL

  91. 91
    opiejeanne says:

    @Violet: When we visited England a few years ago I discovered something like you describe, when I said something was rather good and the hostess at the B & B was taken aback. We realized we didn’t understand each other so I said it was very good and she explained that “rather” is sort of a left-handed compliment (not her words), that saying something was rather good I was telling her it was mediocre or worse.

    I tried to scrub “rather” from my vocabulary, but I still find it confusing.

  92. 92
    Chris says:

    @Suzanne:

    I much prefer “that’s the fucking stupidest shit I’ve ever heard” to “well, that’s an option….”. Just say what you mean. I interpret that level of guardedness as dishonesty and falseness.

    With you entirely. Then again, I’m not that good at the whole “reading between the lines” part of human interaction, so there’s that.

    And I’m kind of skeptical of the whole “Christie’s too brash and rude to work outside the northeast” thing. His base, at least, will love it, far more than they did McCain and Romney’s shtick I would think. They might not like that kind of behavior when it’s directed at someone they identify with, but that teacher was out protesting and therefore just another dirty fucking hippie who got put in her place. Outside of his base, the problems begin, but they at least will be energized, not turned off. Kicking Democratic constituencies in the gutter is practically the only thing driving the party at this point – do they really care whether it’s phrased as “fuck you” or “BLESS your heart”?

  93. 93
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @mdblanche: Agreed, it’s a heat map of poverty areas with negative evil governor cut-outs. Don’t forget Maine.

  94. 94
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Howard Beale IV: Gamergate has gotten so stupid they’re now arguing in public that it’s unethical for a trade mag to run a bad review of one of their advertiser’s products.

    It’s Kid ALEC and the Young Glibertarians!

  95. 95
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Violet: That’s because Mormon women bear the brunt of all that crap, whereas the young men are encouraged to be outward and upward bound (although they do engage in some of the culty stuff, like making sure their buddy “elder” doesn’t masturbate during the mission).

    Mormons are very nice and pleasant easy to get along with (they’re not fundies, FLDS aside) until you move into an area where they’re at over 80% of the population, and you’re not.

  96. 96
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Suzanne: Part of this is not Mormons but Midwestern culture (Mormons, most of them, migrated to Utah in the 19th cent from the central Midwest, including MO). It’s these sort of calm, deadpan, understatements that are as loud as a shout if you understand what is being said.

    Just a different style.

  97. 97
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Violet: True, although it’s possible to overstate this as well. British people are kind of famous for understatement but the British tourists I ran into in Kissimmee last year minced no words about how glad they were that evil witch Margaret Thatcher was dead.

    I laughed but felt nervous too because speaking ill of dead people no matter how irredeemably vile they were is a big no-no in American culture.

  98. 98
    Violet says:

    @Another Holocene Human: But they were in the US. When you’re in their culture in the UK it’s a different situation. That’s where I find it most baffling. Because they’re speaking English I keep thinking we’re communicating. Sometimes we are but sometimes it’s as if they’re speaking another language entirely.

  99. 99
  100. 100
    Rob in CT says:

    It’s not the same people, by and large.

    The ACA helps poor people, people stuck in the individual market and/or people with prexisting conditions the most. I harms (very little, but some) well-off people who already had good coverage. The people who are “up in arms” about the ACA tend to be the second group, angry about help being given to the first.

    On the personal experience front: I have an Aunt. She has a long list of health issues. Pre-ACA she may have been uninsurable as an individual. Back then she was still married and likely covered under her husband’s insurance. I don’t know the details. Now she’s single and has basically no income (she’s working on that, but did the SAHM thing for decades, so it’s hard). My mother, who is basically full metal wingnut, commented recently “Obamacare was so expensive for your Aunt!”

    As if coverage in the individual market was cheap before. As if my Aunt was even fucking insurable before.

    My Aunt, meanwhile, remains a solid liberal. Huh, how about that.

    People see what they want to see. My mother hates taxes and government (except if she needs it, of course) and therefore the ACA *must* be terrible. No evidence is going to change her mind.

  101. 101
    SWMBO says:

    @Violet: America and Great Britian–two great nations separated by a common language.

  102. 102
    Anoniminous says:

    test

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