Jah help me I’m going to comment on the fence jumper.
Josh Marshall notes that he was stopped in Virginia in July with 11 guns in his car and a map with the White House circled, and later near the White House fence with a hatchet in his belt and asks:
Obviously there’s no preventive detention for map circling and carrying hatchets. But I would think there would be an effort to put Gonzalez on a list of people to watch very closely when they got near the White House. Did that happen?
Let me stick up for the Secret Service here: where are they going to start? We live in a country where there was a run on guns and ammo the minute the current President was elected, and where a solid percentage of the population (not to mention some elected officials) was seriously convinced that he was some kind of foreign-born sleeper agent. We don’t have a Stasi or KGB here, nor do we want such an agency, so we can’t “keep tabs” on a couple of million shitheads and their tens of millions of guns. Plus, please remember the caterwauling, whining, pissing and moaning that arose when DHS wrote a report detailing the obvious: right wing idiots with guns are a real danger.
So, did the Secret Service have a file on Gonzalez? If they did, they must have kept it in a very big database, and it’s easy to see how it got lost in the shuffle.
Ahasuerus
[Citation Needed]
Belafon
@Ahasuerus: I believe the second Newsmax title contradicts that statement:
peach flavored shampoo
What the hell does “watch very closely” even mean? Are they going to monitor his house and car and follow him around in perpetuity? 50+ years of ’round the clock surveillance of his whereabouts?
monkeyfister
Totebag News this morning keeps banging on two points: He had a pocket knife on his person, and 800 rounds of ammo in his car.
No idea the calibre of the ammo, but it’s totally moot.
He had no gun at the time of the incursion. One cannot shot ammo with a pocket knife.
Still, having taken a Secret Service tour of the White House when I was Active Duty Navy in 1995 (Shipmate’s uncle was SS at WH), I have a pretty good idea of the levels of security at the White House. Those agents just simply got caught with their pants down. No real reason he should have made it to the building. They just plain fuctup.
Culture of Truth
How exactly would that work? I mean, I got my GPS Location-Tracking ObamaChip implanted last year, but that was part of a voluntary trial program of known subversives
David Hunt
@peach flavored shampoo: I had a similar thought. The question of why the Secret Service weren’t watching him closely when he got “near the Whitehouse” has massive Orwellian implications. Does the Secret Service have the means to ID every person who gets within a block of the place?
Iowa Old Lady
The thing is crazy people gonna be crazy. This is why you can’t ever stop all terrorism, domestic or otherwise.
RSR
Is that a whiff of concern troll I’m smelling from TPM HQ?
OzarkHillbilly
“Unfortunately, they are failing to do their job,” said Jason Chaffetz, chairman of the House oversight and government reform subcommittee. “These are good men and women, but the secret service leadership has a lot of questions to answer. Was the door open?”
Ummmm…. Jason? Just for the record, the President is still alive and by definition, no matter what mistakes may have been made, that is succeeding at their job.
Suffern ACE
@Belafon: under whose control, pray tell? I’ll take dibs on “under control of Mr. burns”
Ruckus
@Iowa Old Lady:
A voice of reason. Is that allowed?
What might be better is trying to find a way to ratchet down the crazy. Maybe a law about truth in news reporting. Or is that crazy?
Snarki, child of Loki
@Culture of Truth: “I got my GPS Location-Tracking ObamaChip implanted last year, but that was part of a voluntary trial program of known subversives”
Hey, if the Teabaggers hadn’t taken an ax to the Federal budget, those FEMA camps would be up and running, and the Black Helicopters would have snatched you YEARS ago!
Alex S.
I think a lot of the security apparatus is just there for show. The state will not be able to stop lone wolves before they are approaching their target. You can’t look into the minds of these people.
Ruckus
@OzarkHillbilly:
What was that old saw about arguing with a crazy person? Jason is one such person, logic has escaped his grasp.
FlipYrWhig
@RSR: TPM smells like that every day. It’s the Fresh Kills Landfill of liberal-ish media(ish).
Iowa Old Lady
@Ruckus: I’d prefer that. Of course, I’d also prefer background checks for people buying guns.
japa21
Contrary to most folks, I think the SS response was fairly appropriate. Definitely did not want to see them shoot the guy. I read a lot about shooting to disable. Sorry, those snipers are taught to shoot one way, to kill.
Secondly, was there any chance of him actually getting into the WH and doing damage? I would imagine that when he reached the door, there was a large welcoming committee waiting for him.
Release the dogs? Possible, and maybe the only thing I could see as appropriate, but those dogs are pretty mean.
A lot of folks were watching what was happening, including families with kids. Not sure I would have wanted them to witness some of the options people are talking about.
cleek
@monkeyfister:
NPR does love repeating that ammo count.
and every time they repeat it, i find myself trying to figure out if having any amount of ammo is a crime. i keep coming up with ‘no’.
like it or not, NPR, i could buy 8000 rounds and drive anywhere i want. that’s the way this country works.
Dave
Yeah this dumb. He made it inside he shouldn’t have. Somebody made a not completely correct call. On the other hand no one died, including this guy who didn’t deserve to, so it wasn’t completely wrong. The thing about guarding is it’s almost impossible to be 100% alert all the time. Slip ups do happen and it was probably driven by the fact that the president had left the premises. As for a knife. The guy had a pocket knife yeah you could cause damage with that but you can cause damage with almost anything. And if he had rounds in his care but no gun than who cares. I think it’s TV’s and movies people just assume you magically track people and don’t realize how much of an Orwellian state that would actually require and still not work. This is another dumb thing to panic about.
beth
The part that surprised me was that the front door was unlocked. I guess they figured no one would ever get there without being screened first but still I assume once you reach that door there’s someone right there to check you in. Since most of the freakout seems to be that he actually got into the building, why not just keep that door locked? Even a simple flip lock would slow someone down for a moment or two which would be enough for the welcoming committee on the other side to do whatever they needed to do,
Shakezula
@Culture of Truth: Exactly. There is a bizarre (or perhaps just stupid) assumption about the sort of technology currently available to monitor human beings and their vehicles. And unless you define “Near the White House” as “Smooshing his/her face between the bars of the fence” try to keep track of the number of people moving around even a block around the property would require even more cameras and people who do nothing but watch them.
I’m getting the impression the average yacksmith is just disappointed the guy wasn’t shot. But it isn’t unusual for people to hop that fence and it might just be that the average person who makes the President’s security detail isn’t the sort of person who is prone to shooting first and asking questions later.
Perhaps something in their training imparts the idea that it is a bad idea to fire a gun near the people they’re guarding unless they’re absolutely certain that needs to happen?
Jeffro
This is ridiculous. The guy should have been lit up the moment he set foot on the other side of the fence. I’d feel the same way if – gag – W was still in the White House.
The leader of our country/the free world, and the SS can’t/wouldn’t/didn’t stop a lone nut with mental health issues until he was Inside. The. Front. Door? Yagottabekiddinme.
The WaPo has a great article on exercises conducted w/ special forces troops and how on more than one occasion small groups of them, using different tactics, were able to make it in. We do have enemies, people. Just because a wingnut like Chaffetz raises an issue doesn’t make him automatically wrong.
Sterling
I don’t understand the giant media freakout about this guy. He didn’t get into the building, and he was caught before he did any harm to anyone. I’m sick of the logic that requires ever more draconian security rules after something didn’t happen because it might have happened in an alternative universe.
gnomedad
This was obviously staged by Obummer to distract from BENGHAZI!!!
Napoleon
@beth:
I read somewhere this morning that the SS is looking at maybe keeping the doors locked around there a little more. A really simple solution to the problem.
Suffern ACE
@cleek: just don’t cross the border. A horde of ammo may get you tagged as a gun runner, even if you were a marine.
OzarkHillbilly
@cleek: I buy my .22 LR in blocks of 500.
OzarkHillbilly
@Jeffro:
Why? He was never a threat to the President. Whatever threat there was, was dealt with, without loss of life. So why kill him when other means were available?
Dave
@Napoleon: That is probably the most effective fix. I am appalled by people that think he should have been shot. There was no good reason. The president wasn’t in any danger he wasn’t in the building.
Shakezula
@Jeffro: Let’s just fix this up a bit.
Yes.
Kay (not the front-pager)
“Unfortunately, they are failing to do their job,” said Jason Chaffetz, chairman of the House oversight and government reform subcommittee. “These are good men and women, but the secret service leadership has a lot of questions to answer. Was the door open?”
Doesn’t anyone remember sequestration? Didn’t we know there would be system failures with such huge underfunding of the systems?
There was something on Saturday (I’m not going to hunt for the link now) about how the Secret Service uniform corps is way understaffed and they have to keep transferring agents from other parts of the country on TDY. The temporary assignments are not as familiar with WH procedures. Also, the President and his family had just left the WH lawn on the other side of the building, so 1) security was probably concentrated there, and 2) he/they were not there to be threatened anyway.
It’s not great the guy got in the door (don’t they lock?), but otherwise I think the situation was handled OK-ish.
Villago Delenda Est
I’m confused. I thought August was over three weeks ago, and we’re still in the silly season.
GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)
@cleek:
Depends. If he was a registered owner, it’s legal. If he is not, then it is illegal,
Tenar Darell
@Iowa Old Lady: That’s probably the only thing I learned during my very typical, wild oats sowing, summer backpacking tour of European Hostels. Bombings can happen in wonderful places, don’t let it terrify you, just live your life as normally as possible. (Well that and don’t sit in the middle while passing a bottle of ouzo back and forth). Sounds to me like the Secret Service did just what it was supposed to do, protect their principal guy and his family…don’t shoot the nut unless you have no other choice. They did that. Who actually benefits from this hysteria?
OzarkHillbilly
@Villago Delenda Est: We have been in the silly season since January of ’08
Villago Delenda Est
@OzarkHillbilly: Oh, you mean it’s like the endless September?
Gordon
I know that the Secret Service has (deservedly) gotten some bad PR for stuff lately, but I’ve always said that if Obama makes it through 8 years unharmed they should all get medals.
Villago Delenda Est
@Tenar Darell: I can see sitting in the middle passing Jaegermeister back and forth, but not Ouzo.
Betty Cracker
@Sterling: He did get in the building, didn’t he? I thought that’s why people are so freaked out — he made it into the building. What if he’d been strapped with a shitload of C-4? Freaking the fuck out doesn’t do any good, but concern is warranted, IMO.
OzarkHillbilly
@GHayduke (formerly lojasmo): Registered owner of ammo? What are you talking about? The only way it might be illegal for him to have the ammo is if he is a felon and I think that only applies to guns (could be wrong).
Bob
Mr. mistermix, you are way in over your head here. These issues are better left to Glenn Godwald.
OzarkHillbilly
@Villago Delenda Est: Worse. It’s the endless March.
Belafon
So, if the government can’t do anything right, does this mean we need less (not so) Secret Service members, or more?
Napoleon
He would have been slower and much more likely to have been caught outsided the WH, and worst case he blows up the foyer of the WH and takes a few agents with him. One person on foot can do very little harm running around the WH grounds. If a lone person wants to really have a realistic chance at harming the President, that is not going to be the way to do it.
cleek
@GHayduke (formerly lojasmo):
that’s nuts. the whole ‘register your gun’ thing, let alone the ammo rules, seems like something that’s just waiting to get struck down.
chopper
@peach flavored shampoo:
jam an RFID tag under his scalp so when he comes within a quarter mile of the WH an alarm goes off? i don’t understand what marshall is advocating should have been done here.
...now I try to be amused
@Alex S.:
Like TSA security theater at airports. I’ve a hunch that the most effective parts of the security apparatus rarely show themselves.
AxelFoley
@Jeffro:
Co-sign. I can’t agree with those who say this guy shouldn’t have been shot. No, this fool should have been blasted to hell. If this guy had his way, our President could have been seriously hurt. Or worse.
And, as we now know, this isn’t the first time he’s targeted the White House.
No, the Secret Service should have put this mad dog down.
Betty Cracker
@Napoleon: That’s a pretty bad worst case, IMO. That’s a big fucking lawn, and the White House is crawling with SS agents, as it should be. I’m not saying the agents should have blown the guy away, but clearly they need to be more vigilant. Lunatics shouldn’t be able to hop the fence and make it all the way to the WH.
Cervantes
@Bob: Thanks. I’m sure your other comment is a Ferrari.
@Betty Cracker: I agree.
And if the excerpt below is factual, there were several other things that could have been done before he even jumped the fence.
japa21
@AxelFoley: Would have been great theater for the kids and really have given them something to talk about later on.
OzarkHillbilly
@Betty Cracker: I did think of that Betty, but I have no knowledge of how he was dressed, so maybe they could tell?
One final thought then I gotta go:
Over the past month we have been engaged in a collective rage at law enforcement over their propensity for shooting unarmed people of color, some of them mentally ill, for little to no reason. Here we have a situation where many law enforcement people chose to not shoot someone who seems to be mentally ill and was no apparent*** threat to anyone.
What’s not to like?
*** again with the caveat of how was he dressed
balconesfault
Josh Marshall notes that he was stopped in Virginia in July with 11 guns in his car and a map with the White House circled
Syntax is important. I had to re-read to make sure it wasn’t Josh Marshall who was heavily armed and headed to DC.
Cervantes
@Jeffro:
@AxelFoley:
All this talk of “lighting up” this guy — no, wait, this “mad dog” — is very patriotic, no doubt, but for some reason it reminds me of Jack Ruby. Whatever you intrepids do, do not follow his example.
C.V. Danes
Really? Someone should tell that to the NSA…
cleek
shot, lit-up, put-down?
WTF.
he should have been arrested and put in jail.
Betty Cracker
@OzarkHillbilly: There’s a lot to dislike about a lunatic making it into the White House. I’m not one of the “put the mad dog down!” commenters, but I do think it should be impossible for an individual to jump a tall fence and run across a huge fucking lawn and make it into the president’s house. Guard dogs, fleet-footed agents, MORE agents — whatever is needed. Protecting the president is important.
Eric U.
@cleek: re: ammo in the car. I assume they think he was going to check out the WH, jump the fence the other way, go get the ammo, and jump the fence again. I’m gonna say the guy that flew his small plane into the white house when Clinton was Prez had a much better plan.
different-church-lady
Now if only he had been unarmed, carrying Skittles, wearing a hoodie, and recently had an altercation involving a box of cigars instead of a map of the White House, a hatchet, and 800 rounds of ammo, then the Virgina police would have been completely justified in shooting him repeatedly in the head long before he got anywhere near the President.
askew
I have to imagine that Barack and Michelle are freaked out as parents that this guy made it inside the WH. That is a serious breach and it is irrevlent that the president wasn’t there at the time. He could have hurt the kids. There is no way this should have happened.
I really feel like the SS has fallen down on the job with the Obamas. There have been a lot of mistakes made. I’m worried they aren’t taking their security seriously.
Omnes Omnibus
@Betty Cracker: I give the Secret Service a barely passing score on this due to the lowered curve when the President isn’t at the White House. The guy did no harm, and no one got shot. Also, there is a very real possibility that at least one sharpshooter had the guy’s head in his crosshairs the whole time.
different-church-lady
Might I point out something obvious: there are a hell of a lot of other people working at the White House at all times, who could be grievously harmed by a mentally unbalanced intruder intent on some form of malice. It’s not just about the POTUS and the First Family.
Cervantes
@askew:
None of the Obamas were on the premises.
Apart from that detail, I agree: it was a serious breach.
Ben Cisco
I’m glad no one got hurt. Glad he went to jail. That said, he should NEVER have gotten close to (let alone inside of) the White House. Full stop.
He needn’t necessarily have been shot – a decent takedown tackle would have (and damned well SHOULD have) sufficed nicely.
Don’t quite get the “the President wasn’t home” jibber jabber – how the hell was HE supposed to know that?
And the “no big deal” wanking has a whiff about it too – and that’s not about Republican vs. Democratic presidents, but about principle. Almost sounds like people got SO disgusted w/the Cheney Regency that any and everything about it is anathema to decent society – including the security of the White House and its occupants?
I don’t remember such breaches during the Big Dog’s DC days being taken so nonchalantly.
artem1s
@OzarkHillbilly:
I agree.
The result of no one getting killed: perhaps because the agents are actually trained in PROTECTION and not just waving their penis substitutes around. One of the many fascinating things about SS detail is that they are trained to keep their subjects from getting harmed to the point where their own personal safety is immaterial. At least one guy’s job is to take the bullet. Not stop the shooter or engage them in any way. Most of them are assigned to getting people out of the way or to safety. A lot of the agents present are not assigned to shoot or kill the threat. They are there to do other things. Just because the guy didn’t end up a smoking hole in the ground or end up like Bonnie and Clyde doesn’t mean they didn’t do their jobs.
scav
@cleek: I do rather worry where certain “mercans turned to for their version of ‘normal’ before the advent of the Summer Blockbuster. Any large event, I can usually see the cogs churning in a few, looking for the proper lead, supporting or extra role that seems to best fit the situation.
SiubhanDuinne
Honestly thought this post was going to be about Steve.
Lady Bug
@Ben Cisco:
ITA. I hope that this incident will seriously prompt more funding (who funds the Sec Service-Congress?) and security measures for the President etc. It looks like they are already looking into adding more security at the White House gates-which is good. I understand that Secret Service agents have a very difficult and taxing job-perhaps especially given the level of threats against the current occupant in the Oval Office, so perhaps they need to increase the number of agents so the current ones aren’t spread so thin.
The fact that this man got into the White House is scary as f*^$. While I completely disagree with Chaffetz’s politics/policy stands, his outrage in this incident is completely warranted in this case. The fact that Obama wasn’t in the house at the time doesn’t make this incident any less disturbing, as different-church-lady pointed out, there are plenty of other people working in the White House-and not just SS agents. Presumably people who prefer not to be killed while at work.
tesslibrarian
@Shakezula: An incredibly frequent question at the public library reference desk is “how do I look up Person-Of-Interest?” When asked if they are looking for a phone number or address, or a business location, they invariably say that no, they want to know how to find the person’s photograph, history, interests, everything—like they think everyone has a wikipedia entry somewhere. These people are incredulous to find out that unless this person has a public facebook page, that information isn’t there–that we don’t all have every personal detail about ourselves online, and they just don’t know how to find it, so Ask A Librarian. Some of them didn’t think we were being honest when we told them it wasn’t there; they took it for granted that “it’s got to be there.”
No wonder people don’t care about personal privacy issues. They are already think they have none and are okay with that, especially if they can get details about who their ex is dating now. I always found those exchanges most demoralizing.
Person of Choler
@Ahasuerus:
“We don’t have a Stasi or KGB here….”.
We have to make do with the IRS, Homeland Security and the NSA instead. We’ll manage.
Patrick
@askew:
I wouldn’t just blame the SS. They have been subjected to budget cuts and thus have cut staff. You should also then blame Congress for causing those budget cuts. And who elects Congress? The American people, which ultimately has to share blame.
Tenar Darell
@Villago Delenda Est: I was in Greece, at Delphi, so ouzo. Still don’t drink it today.
VOR
@beth: Do you need to lock doors when there are trained, heavily armed men standing on the other side of them? Seems like a better security measure than a lock.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@VOR: Yup. Having agents detailed, conspicuously, directly outside the doors seems to make more sense to me than locking them.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
jl
Thanks to this blog for continued sensible comment on the latest Secret Service ‘scandal’. So, OK, maybe there are problems to be addressed, but the way the fence jumper issue has been covered by out failed corporate media experiment is ridiculous.
So, far, I have not read about the WH Secret Service guards not responding because they were shit-faced and partying with hookers and blow in some discrete corner of the WH grounds. They followed procedures, and this incident revealed some potential problems.
I heard some jackass ‘security expert’ on the radio panicking over what would happen if 20 ISIL agents jumped the fence as human bombs. Well, we have a homeland security department, and doubtful that the 20 ISIL agents would be bitter lunatic people who looked white and driving around with typical US right wing style Live Free or Die guns and ammo kit, so I suspect at least some of them would be on a list.
The guy said we need a security perimeter around public buildings to counter the ISIL human bomb wave threat (or gap?). That would result in half of DC being put behind a Berlin Wall, and blowing away people who fart loud too close to WH or Capitol. I guess he thinks that would be acceptable.
boatboy_srq
Reminder here: this is Virginia. Knowing what I do of VA LOEs, they probably let him go because they couldn’t actually encourage him. A friend who lives near me – in shouting distance of DC – was stopped for DWB while pulling into his own driveway. I’m more surprised that they filed the report on the shooter than that they let him go.
waspuppet
In what feels like a related development, I came back into the U.S. from a trip yesterday, and in a long passport-customs line, the older white guy a few ahead of me sighed theatrically and Southern-drawled, “There has GOT to be a better way to do this.”
Now, I probably shouldn’t practice ethnic and gender profiling, but – no, fuck it; I will: I’m pretty confident I know what his feelings are on “securing the border” against the current “invasion.” So essentially he wants a line at the airport for white people to stroll straight through. Everyone else has to go through a Guantanamo reenactment. And then pay for it. Because freedom. And (another favorite conservative dog whistle) “It’s just common sense.”
Jeffro
@Cervantes: It has nothing to do with patriotism, so let’s not drag out that straw man please. It’s about keeping the President, his family, and everyone that works there safe.
I have to laugh at stuff like Napoleon’s comment about how if the intruder was carrying C4, that He would have been slower and much more likely to have been caught outsided the WH, and worst case he blows up the foyer of the WH and takes a few agents with him.. I’m sure he’d be okay with that standard were it his family that lived in the WH, or his spouse that worked there, or his brother that worked security in the foyer? Didn’t think so.
brantl
Actually, yes we do, and they also go by initials FBI and CIA.
brantl
@Betty Cracker: Radar-guided anesthetic dart gun.
JaneE
If he had been stopped and detained while carrying an AK-47 or AR-15, the Republicans would be screaming bloody murder about 2nd amendment rights. And they made sure that the Secret Service budget was cut by sequestration. I think they are hoping for an assassination, if not actually planning one.
tones
@JaneE:
I have to agree, if he was not black, they would have done something in the past , like they do to anyone who seems a threat.
Rachel M did a nice story on how often this actually does happen, and this was the least of them really.
I think it is time for our side to call this stuff out, – you would shoot him?
Then you are a coward!
Only cowards shoot unarmed people, that goes for the POlice too.
You want to send missles?
Why are you so afraid?
They should have shot him?
Since when are you such a cowardly excuse for a man?
etc.
In the old days you only killed folks if there really was no other way.
steverinoCT
My niece’s new FIL (in his mid-70s) proudly showed me the bullet he keeps on his keychain. It’s engraved with “Obama.”
Cervantes
@Jeffro:
It wasn’t a straw man. It was sarcasm. They’re not the same.