Oh, Michael Moore, will you ever stop talking?? In an interview with the Hollywood Reporter, he admitted that, while Obama has accomplished some notable achievements, he’ll only be remembered for one thing:
“When the history is written of this era, this is how you’ll be remembered: ‘He was the first black president.’ Okay, not a bad accomplishment, but that’s it. That’s it, Mr. Obama. A hundred years from now, ‘he was the first black American that got elected president.’ And that’s it. Eight years of your life and that’s what people are got to remember. Boy, I got a feeling, know you, that you’d probably wish you were remembered for a few other things, a few other things you could’ve done.”
Yup, just the first black president. He didn’t pass health care reform or stimulus reform or Wall Street reform or helped eliminate Bin Laden or reversed Bush torture policies, or passed the Fair Sentencing Act or …. shall we keep going?
Team Blackness also discussed Ben Carson’s defense of Ray Rice, net neutrality, and a police officer that quit after he was linked to the KKK.
Subscribe on iTunes | Subscribe On Stitcher | Direct Download | RSS
dmsilev
Sadly, no.
The Other Chuck
Shorter Moore: I WANT MY PONY!
RSA
Thanks, Michael Moore, for illustrating how stupid people will remember President Obama.
Baud
Newsmax approves this message.
gogol's wife
@RSA:
Exactly.
Roger Moore
@The Other Chuck:
Yup, that’s about the size of it. Actually, I think he wants a whole herd of ponies instead of the one or two he got.
Laertes
He’ll also be remembered as the President who launched the war that finally solved all our problems in Iraq and Syria.
Calouste
@Roger Moore:
Michael Moore is a rich white straight man. What has Obama done for that poor group?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Yes. The auteur of Roger and Me really ought to note that Obama saved the American auto industry (and the rest of the economy along with it). The maudlin nitwit lives in Rick Snyder’s Michigan. Is really too fucking stupid to understand that Obama is not standing athwart the great Progressive Revolution?
I followed the link and I see that Himself was being interviewed by Susan Sarandon, of whom I am a big fan, but they both need to be duct-taped to chairs and have their eyes propped open with toothpicks and forced to watch Schoolhouse Rock for seventy-two hours.
piratedan
I can remember fondly the day that I cast that ballot for Michael Moore to represent all liberals in thee media… oh wait, it was a midterm and I didn’t vote since there wasn’t a Presidential candidate in play….
El Caganer
Moore might be unintentionally correct – not that the President hasn’t done anything, but that the American public a hundred years from now (hell, twenty years from now) won’t remember a damn thing.
Belafon
@Laertes: Really? That would be a first.
cckids
The best commentary I’ve yet seen on Moore’s asshat statement was from Booman’s comments:
All I can add is A-f*cking-MEN. I knew, back in 2009, when Obama had been in office all of 2 weeks or so and so many Republicans were hur-huring “so hows the hope & change working out?” as the man attempted to salvage the US economy & major industries from the wreckage left to him.
Last week, someone here linked to a statement that they’d love to have seen what Pres. Obama could have accomplished without “a 10-ton whining elephant strapped to his ankles”. Yes.
Michael Moore can & should cram it.
Shakezula
From today’s episode of “It’s projection!”
Edit – One other thing he’ll be remembered for? Driving shitheels crazy with his blackity-blackness.
bobbo
Michael Moore -as good a friend to liberals as Ralph Nader
Betty Cracker
And Michael Moore will only be remembered for being fat. Or is that Al Gore?
Frankensteinbeck
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Conjunction Junction, what’s your function? @.@
Mike E
I ‘spose this is another case of age-induced man’splainin’…hope I don’t succumb to it.
Roger and Me and TV Nation truly are gifts for which Moore should be recognized, but, seriously, STFU dude.
Bobby Thomson
@cckids:
That’s mean. Michael Moore isn’t that big.
gussie
So we think when the history is written of this era, Obama will be remembered as a president who passed the ACA and stimulus reform and who reformed Wall Street and eliminatedBin Laden and reversed Bush torture policies, presided over the passage of the Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, the Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes, and the tripling in value of the Dow?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mike E: As I said the other night, does he even try to be funny anymore? Whatever happened to Crackers The Corporate Crime Fighting Chicken?
@Frankensteinbeck: Well, if they’re looking for the best music. Though I always did like the one about The Number Nine, too.
The Moar You Know
@cckids: Were they referring to the GOP or Michael Moore? I could see it going either way.
Larry R
Moore’s statement is stupid, but I think the list of counter-examples above could be more accurate. Health care, yes. Stimulus will be remembered for being too small as a result of Obama being a Summers sycophant. Wall Street reform was an utter failure — the big banks are bigger, and homeowners did not receive meaningful relief (remember cramdown, anyone?). Got Bin Laden. But reversed Bush torture policies? Unclear, but it certainly is clear that he had no interest in holding anyone responsible for the torture that occurred, so the incentives are to do it again when convenient. He should also be remembered as the father of drone warfare, the man who surged in Afghanistan, and the president during the torture of Bradley/Chelsea Manning, a small part of his campaign to ensure that only the administration can leak government secrets without negative consequences, irrespective of the legality of the activities being leaked.
He inspired with his speeches, and had the opportunity to be another FDR — but unfortunately for us, it turns out that his best quality as President is that he isn’t John McCain. Which isn’t nothing. But I’m always shocked at why this liberal blog gives him such a pass on the shitty job he’s been doing. Just because he sucks doesn’t mean he’s not better than the alternatives.
Mike E
@Larry R: Bless yer heart…
Fred
I wonder if a hundred years from now anyone will think there is a distinction between a black man and a white man. A hundred years ago Irish, Italians, etc. were not considered white. And let’s not even talk about Jews and Catholics.
Then again, a hundred years from now will there be humans to talk about history. I say it’s a coin flip, if we’re lucky.
Baud
@Larry R:
I know, right? But I see Japs everywhere I go. Thanks, Obama.
WaterGirl
@cckids: Thanks so much for posting that comment by volagsrule at BooMan’s place. I had missed that.
steve
I don’t understand why, “President Obama has made some unforced errors and I was disappointed in that,” almost inevitably becomes, “President Obama has no accomplishments.”
I can criticize Obama from the left without ascribing magical powers to him or denying the good that he has done (or how much worse things could have been under McCain). Why are so many of my fellow lefties Manichean? The world is far more complicated than “white hat” versus “black hat.”
Belafon
Because he’s been weighed down by the racists, and the other two people in the Republican party that aren’t. Democrats haven’t exactly flocked to his side. A lot of us are thinking of what we would have accomplished in his place, dealing with the things he’s dealt with.
You should read the comment at 13.
chopper
@The Other Chuck:
“this isn’t a pony! this is a mule! i can’t be seen riding this!!”
Belafon
@Baud: Would FDR be FDR had he started his job on Jan 21, 1930?
Baud
@Belafon:
Nope.
Shakezula
@Fred: Very true. Even the OMB/Census Bureau are adjusting the definitions of race. Moore packed a lot of subtext into his little “joke,” didn’t he?
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Larry R: Look how many Americans died violently during the Lincoln presidency. Christ, he must have sucked. Historical context matters.
Poopyman
@gussie:
Yes, as long as it’s repeated often enough. IN THE FUTURE … everyone’s brain will be electronically connected to Google (TM).
@Larry R: I don’t have your magic pony, but would a couple of tons of horseshit sent your way be a good substitute?
Cervantes
@Larry R:
Actually, Moore prefaced that comment about Obama with “He’s done many, many good things.”
Aimai
@Larry R: oh for fucks sake no one remembers petty fiscal details at all in 100 years.
shelley
Hey Michael, we still remember you being the guy who supported Ralph Nader in 2000, a dick move that probably helped Bush the Lesser into the White House.
Poopyman
@Baud: Nicely played.
Davis X. Machina
Not even FDR was “FDR” — the historians created that particular entity, and after FDR’s death.
Mnemosyne
@Larry R:
Yes, if only Obama had imprisoned thousands of American citizens and blocked the passage of anti-lynching laws, he could have been as great as FDR!
Which is kind of the point — people remember the good things that FDR did and edit out the bad things he did. They pretend FDR didn’t have any failures or political shortcomings while pointing out each and every one of Obama’s failures and shortcomings.
But, hey, if you want to lionize the guy who ordered the imprisonment of thousands of men, women, and children based solely on their race, be my guest.
Hill Dweller
FDR had huge Democratic majorities in both the House and Senate. Obama had a filibuster proof majority in the Senate for about 3 months in ’09, while facing a record shattering number of filibusters during his time in office. That fact alone renders any FDR comparison mind-numbingly stupid.
steve
@Belafon:
If he didn’t face racists/obstructionists he could have accomplished more. But I think Obama is not a leftist, his ideal policy is likely to the right of many progressives. I think it is fine to want a more progressive democratic party and more progressive leaders…what is ridiculous is when the man gets blame for what is out of his control (racists/obstructionists) and no credit for things that he has done that do shift policy to the left (the ACA, for example) even it doesn’t shift it as far left as some of us would like.
Frankensteinbeck
@steve:
Well, @Larry R provides an excellent example of the process, if not the ‘why’. Start by admitting he did something good, leave out almost everything good and go immediately to ‘that can’t be proven’s, then to their enemies not being punished, to assertions that in doing so he’s actually supported the things he stopped, to paranoid misinterpretations and then outright conspiracies. Having followed this path, they can end by asserting that Obama is superior to Republicans so they can claim they’re reasonable, while implying that there’s a hair’s breadth between him and McCain at best.
Davis X. Machina
I don’t know about you, but when I vote for a University of Chicago law professor, and he fails to call upon us to expropriate the expropriators, and fails to seize the commanding heights of the economy in the name of the workers, I feel ripped off.
You won’t catch me voting for Obama again. No, siree. I’m onto him.
Poopyman
@Mnemosyne: Yeah, but FDR was no Millard Fillmore, that’s for sure!
srv
What unicorns there were are now extinct
Belafon
@steve: Agree.
Poopyman
@srv:
Boy! What rotten luck for that guy! What a coincidence, eh?
Waynski
Moore’s a douchebag. But we need douchebags. Keeps people honest.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
and an electorate that hadn’t been Reaganized and racialized into seeing government as an alien and hostile entity
El Tiburon
Well, if you are talking about what he will be remembered for, then Moore is probably right. Remember: in our great country, history tends to be written by dbags like Tom Friedmann, et al
Regardless of Obama’s achievements,from a liberal/progressive point of view, I think he has been a huge failure. He has continued many of the economic policies of his conservative predecessors. Killing OBL, while all cool and shit, doesn’t really do a damn thing. It’s not like Al Queda up and quit.
I think it’s been said that Obama is a moderate Republican, which, to some extent, ain’t such a bad thing. While he is about one trillion times better than any Republican, he wasted a unique time in our history. I know I know: the Republicans are to blame for most of it…
But, given a Democratic House and a veto proof Senate, does anyone really think Obama would enact true, liberal/progressive change that WE ALL KNOW this country needs? No. He would still prop up Wall Street. He would still ignore torturers while going after whistle blowers and so on.
We all know this.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
somebody mentioned those “mid-term” things
the good news:
and the bad:
piratedan
@Larry R: WELLLLLL lets see here… the original stimulus was larger but actually talked down by the Blue Dogs not Larry bleeping Summers IRIC because we actually had to haggle here lest we bee seen as fiscally unfrugal while the world was in the process of crashing around us…. can’t have that. Wall Street reform has been so bad, the folks in the financial sector have been working non-stop to repeal it and remove it altogether, I see that as a positive, sorry. Homeowner bailout programs are STILL in effect and out there if folks wish to avail themselves of it but there was such a crappy job about letting people know about it that I only get about four pieces of mail about it a week asking me if I want to take advantage of refinancing my current debt. then again, I’m a current homeowner, can’t speak to the mail that other folks pick up.
Not sure I buy the father of drone warfare schtick, has he used it, hell yeah, but he’ss not the first nor do I suspect he’ll be the last.
Sorry you didn’t get a pony, but then again, the guy in charge has mostly had to be the only political adult in the room for the last four years because his political opponents have been busy running the scorched earth scenario and in case you haven’t noticed, they do have the one branch of the government that controls the purse and is responsible to have their buy in to get legislation passed and they’ve been about as effective and reasonable as toddlers who didn’t get pudding at snack and have refused to take a nap, or perhaps you missed that whole sequester government shutdown thingy.
Mandalay
This two minute video tells you a lot about Michael Moore. He spoke at Occupy Portland and called on the wealthiest 400 to each give back a million dollars.
Some excellent heckling followed from those in the crowd who had Moore pegged as the ultimate limousine liberal:
“How about a million of your $50 million?”
“How much of your own $50 million are you going to donate to Occupy [Portland]? You don’t wanna answer that?…”
“Aren’t you part of the 1%?”
“Make way for the 1%! Fifty million dollar Michael Moore!”
“Hey Michael….you flying the corporate jet back? Huh? Your own private jet?”
“Who’s paying you?”
Moore lost all his bravado, played deaf, and fled.
Now Moore’s films are great, and we don’t know how much he donates to charity, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it turns out to be a lot. But he’s is a godawful spokesperson for progressive causes – the absolute worst of the worst. Every time he opens his mouth in public he pushes public opinion to the right. I wish he’d just make movies, but otherwise just STFU and go away.
Betty Cracker
@El Tiburon: Obama is a moderate Democrat. He was never going to be the pony purveyor of our progressive dreams. It’s not who he is, and it’s not what he ran on. Calling him a failure for failing to deliver on YOUR agenda is like criticizing the ice cream truck dude for failing to mow your lawn.
rikyrah
he saved the American Auto Industry too
Belafon
@El Tiburon: Not sure what definition of liberal you are working off of there. FDR and the Democrats of his time saved Wall Street and capitalism. There were parties around then that were actively campaigning to end our nice little economic experiment.
Obama really isn’t any different in that regard.
Edited to finish the thought.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
They need to send out more emails.
:-P
ET
You know I have absolutely no idea how history will see Obama and it rather presumptuous for anyone be it Michael Moore or any conservative talking head, to come to any definitive conclusion while he is still president and will continue to be for 2 more years.
I will say that it will cycle though the spectrum of great – good – so so – not so hot – bad – horrible, over time and will vary depending on who is doing the writing. This has happened to our founding fathers and every president in between.
srv
@Poopyman: Presuming we’re working with them covertly, unfortunately such a big party probably had some guests. Watch a spike in US casualties announced elsewhere or a helicopter accident.
Bobby Thomson
@El Tiburon:
Of course not. Presidents don’t enact legislation, you twit. Do you really think he would veto progressive legislation? Based on what? And why is it his responsibility if Congress doesn’t?
Christ, what an asshole.
JPL
OT… The Wounded Warrior Project is sending out emails. You can proudly buy Destroy ISIS t-shirts. I haven’t donated to them, so I’m not sure how I got on their mailing list.
Poopyman
@Baud:
Sadly, I suspect that’s just what they’ll do. How many months in a row have I deleted a ton of emails with the “OMG! We’re gettting killed!” subject line? Month after frickin’ month.
You know, the wolf did show up eventually in that story.
srv
SatanicPanic
@rikyrah: Michael Moore is jealous because he couldn’t
Alison
@Betty Cracker: White liberals who assumed Obama was gonna be the Ultimate Lefty Commie Progressive just feel like another version of “black guys are all good at basketball” to me. I really think a lot of white people just figured that because he’s black and a Democrat, he was OBVIOUSLY going to be super liberal. It always bugged me.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I think I love you. So what am I so afraid of?
@Belafon: See also there what I call the Eschaton fallacy: The assumption that the Democratic Party, if not the whole electorate, is a just great big version of the left blogosphere. Would Obama’s filibuster proof Democratic congress include Mark “Young Earth” Pyror? Claire “Silly Stuff” McCaskill? Joe “Shoot’em Up!” Mancin? Lady Dianne Antoinette Feinstein, Duchess of Neocon? Bob “Vatican Rag” Casey? Mary “Drill, Baby, Drill” Landrieu? Michael “Keystone” Bennett? Heidi Heidkamp and her “North Dakota Way of Life”?
Villago Delenda Est
Moore really needs to STFU about Obama.
He’s rapidly moving into Ralph Nader irrelevancy/self parody territory. Which is a shame…like Nader, he was a force for the light side, once. Now he’s drifting off into the realm of those who suck up to the utter pigshit that is Grover Norquist.
Iowa Old Lady
Goes to show you how the left eats its own. Also how those low approval ratings don’t mean that most people would prefer Republicans.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@El Caganer:
I have a similar worry that Moore is right for the wrong reasons. My problem is that the GOP and the media have gone out of their way to deny him any progress or give him any credit, and have studiously tried to turn any actual movement forward hes’ had into somehow the worst thing in the history of ever, and they do it with enough frequency and repetition that it eventually becomes conventional wisdom. And as someone here already said, sadly, history tends to be written by assholes like Friedman.
Roger Moore
@piratedan:
It wasn’t just a matter of perceptions. Al Franken hadn’t been seated yet, so the Republicans could have filibustered the stimulus if they had stuck together. The Democrats actually needed to get at least one Republican on-board, and cutting the stimulus was the cost of doing so. It’s hard to know if Obama could have gotten a bigger stimulus by asking for more from the beginning, but I think it’s up to the people who want to blame him for it being to small to show how he could have gotten something meaningfully bigger.
Villago Delenda Est
@srv: The pilots knew exactly where they were.
The troops who offloaded, probably not. So they’d ask that question to get their bearings.
SatanicPanic
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik: Dude, GOP doesn’t write real history books. 100 years from now only cranks will be citing David Barton.
Villago Delenda Est
@Roger Moore: There you go, bringing facts into the discussion again.
grandpa john
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: and also a public that had a good healthy dose of republican style economics during a downturn.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@SatanicPanic:
GOP doesn’t write real history books, but, god help us, their enablers in the media tend to.
Shakezula
@Bobby Thomson: I know it is naive of me but I continue to be shocked by the number of people who have no clue how a bill becomes a law in this country.
Mandalay
@El Tiburon:
Your scenario existed not so long ago, and Wall Street was propped up, so you are superficially correct.
But why? Well here’s a quiz for you on why Obama did nothing about Wall Street when Democrats controlled both houses:
[1] Obama did nothing because he’s a DINO, and secretly he supports everything they do.
[2] Obama did nothing because it would require solid support from Democrats who would gouge their own eyes out with a rusty fork before they would enact meaningful legislation against Wall Street.
I’m going for option [2] but YMMV.
piratedan
@Roger Moore: i KNOW IT’S TRUE!!! HE COULD HAVE IMPLEMENTED SINGLE PAYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know man, I know… it just seems like we have already had these discussions and somehow it’s like the vast majority of the electorate has alzheimers when it comes to what took place in our not so recent history. Then again, when you have the same truthiness being promoted as news by our esteemed 4th estate, maybe I shouldn’t be so hard on those folks that only follow politics as needed but our failed media experiment sure as hell hinders that process.
Rob in CT
I knew Michael Moore was a self-aggrandizing prick a long time ago. Like, when I first heard about the guy. He was a bomb-thrower from the start, but people liked him b/c his bombs were aimed at the right people.
Obama had a filibuster-proof majority for ~5 months, broken into 2 periods, and that majority included Joe Lieberman (I-asshole), for starters.
Why hasn’t a package of progressive purity pony policies been enacted? Mostly b/c of Congress. Almost entirely b/c of Congress. This isn’t to say Obama hasn’t made mistakes – he has. But man, there’s this fantasy alternative reality in which if Obama was just perfect everything we wanted would’ve happened. No, it would not, because of Congress. And the US electorate, which voted in a pack of jackals in 2010 (yes, the Dems campaigned poorly. They still would’ve lost seats even if they had done everything right. Welcome to American, unfortunately).
JaneE
I expect that 50 or 75 years from now, we will be talking about Social Security, Medicare, and Obamacare as three of the best things this country has done for its citizens. That doesn’t mean that the Republicans, or their successors won’t still be trying to eliminate all three, but the vast majority of Americans will know that their lives are better for the programs existence. With any luck at all Obamacare will have become single payer by then.
Jim
I agree with 95% of what Elon says. However, I would not be surprised at all if it eventually came out that (1) tortured continued, but better covered up, or (2) torture will be revived in light of ISIS.
JPL
@JaneE: With any luck, the Repubs won’t destroy it. Romney and Ryan ran on privatizing Medicare. You can then see any doctor you want and life will be good. They didn’t tell anyone how much out of pocket it would cost.
AxelFoley
@cckids: Greatest post in Balloon Juice history.
AxelFoley
@Larry R: New troll here, huh?
cckids
@The Moar You Know: At the time, the GOP flat-earthers in Congress. Moore, while irritating & clueless as f*ck, doesn’t have the actual power to stop legislation from happening.
El Tiburon
@Betty Cracker:
Yes and no.
Promises of a public option that evaporated come to mind. Grand Bargain come to mind. His coziness with Wall Street come to mind. Continuing many of Bush’s failed foreign policy blunders come to mind.
But more importantly, and yes I’m recalling election night in 2008, when he was announced the winner, and a small tear of joy ran down my face that the madness and insanity had finally stopped, I have come now to realize that the madness and insanity has just been tamped down a bit. We are vaporizing children daily. We are about to start another war in the MIddle East.
Inequality is at its highest ever. Journalists are going to jail. HIspanic families are being torn apart at record numbers.
Obama’s biggest failure, I think history will record, is not grabbing post Bush-era by the horns and effecting real change. We lost that chance – and with a Hillary presidency, a dysfunctional Congress, it’s only going to get worse.
And your little ice cream analogy is cute for the rabble here, but it really is nonsensical. The nation BEGGED for a leader in 2008. We did not get that.
srv
@Villago Delenda Est: Sure hope no one does any GPS jamming at the wrong place and time. Or maybe the right place at the right time?
docg
Roger Moore said in 100 years. History folks, not current events. 100 years ago, Woodrow Wilson was president. Quick, without Google or Wikipedia, what were Wilson’s 25 most significant accomplishments? Exactly.
balconesfault
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Add: without deliberately screwing over organized labor in the process – which is what everyone on the right who actually supported saving the auto industry wanted.
That might have mattered to Roger Moore once upon a time …
Mike in NC
But will he endorse Rand Paul in 2016? Very likely, I’d guess.
moops
Michael Moore should be careful in that glass house of his.
El Tiburon
@Bobby Thomson:
So, in your little world, the President is a non-factor in how legislation is crafted? Presidents never tour the country to push the legislation they want passed?
In your little world, Presidents never lean on their members in Congress to pass what they want? Bush didn’t try like hell to privatize social security? Obama never urged Congress to pass gun safety legislation?
Oh, and this thing we now call “Obamacare”. I guess in your little world, Obama was out golfing the entire 2 years that was being crafted, is this right?
Is this what you believe? And I’m not saying Obama would veto progressive language you twat. I’m saying Obama would never PUSH for certain kinds of liberal/progressive legislation. In fact, he would push for things like the Grand Bargain.
I may be an asshole, but you are a fucking moran.
KXB
@Davis X. Machina:
Give Obama 2 more terms, and then maybe he can be FDR.
Baud
@El Tiburon:
Zero chance history “records” something that vague.
srv
@docg: Whut? Worst President Ever. How do you undo that?
He tricked us into WWI on some loopy ideas, milquetoast to England & France, and that got us Hitler!
Trollhattan
@docg:
#3 Mixed a superb martini.
Keith G
Ah yes another, “Some really love Obama’s performance and some really don’t” thread. This is ground that is well trod and everyone has their part memorized.
How about something completely new via Newsweek:
Baud
@balconesfault:
The actor or the commenter here (assuming they’re different people.)
El Caganer
@balconesfault: I dunno. I’m not sure 007 gives a shit.
C.V. Danes
@Laertes:
You mean WWIII?
C.V. Danes
@Calouste:
Well, he kept a lot of the really rich ones out of jail…
srv
@Keith G: Maybe she was just in costume for Western History. Maybe Calamity Jane?
All teachers should do that.
Betty Cracker
@El Tiburon: You’re disappointed in StawBama — he didn’t promise to go after the Bushies or take down Big Banksters. I’d be happy as hell if he did, but the kind of candidate that would fulfill all my political wishes couldn’t get elected dog catcher. Such is the fate of actual lefties in America — we have to settle.
Cacti
Good thing there’s no such thing as white liberal racism.
Otherwise, Moore’s comments would be pretty racist.
C.V. Danes
@Larry R: Exactly
C.V. Danes
In a hundred years our great-grand children will be reclining in their summer homes at the North Pole watching stories about people jumping into the ocean from the top of the Empire State Building. Who knows what their history will be saying about us…
LAC
@El Tiburon: no wonder hippies get punched. Children, lets all get out our crayons and paper and draw unicorns.
cckids
@docg:
Racist, sexist jerk who thought “Birth of a Nation” was awesome history. Fought hard against womens’ suffrage.
C.V. Danes
@LAC: Yes, because all the years of hippie punching has been so beneficial to the middle class, and so on.
brantl
@RSA: That’s a good 60% of the population, you know.
LAC
@Betty Cracker: or try to remember that we have three branches of government and not let the Michael moores of the world talk us into sitting on our hands when congressional election time draws near. That what the “progress” in progressive means.
Lady Bug
@docg:
@srv:
Not an accomplishment at all, but some random Wilson trivia:
IIRC, (without checking the google to see if I’m remembering it correctly) he also had a fondness for the film Birth of a Nation, or at least screened it in the WH and praised the film. He also had a stroke(?) during in term and his wife essentially served as de-facto President.
LAC
@C.V. Danes: you are right. I’m sorry. I mean poseur punching. Is that better?
cckids
@Betty Cracker: This. I think too many people forget just how free-falling the US economy was when Obama came into office. Could things have been done better? Possibly.
Should he have devoted his administration to going after the Bush/Cheney crimes rather than trying to get the economy off the ledge? Probably not. Think of how hard it was to get things that were basic common sense passed, like the stimulus. Remember all the flat-out racist, insane crap that was going on & being said daily, how demonized possible Cabinet members were, etc, etc.
Now, just how many chainsaws was the administration supposed to keep in the air at once?
The man hasn’t been perfect, but he has been honorable, smart & hard-working & most of all, realistic. Expecting perfection from a politician is a chump’s game.
Oh, and those of you saying he hasn’t been a “leader”? Head back to Limbaugh & co, pls.
Keith G
Lest we forget…
One of SNL’s best Obama skits: How Is He Doing?
brantl
@Baud:
You do know you can’t hit a bonehead with a dog, don’t you? (Mark Twain paraphrase.)
srv
@Lady Bug:
If that wife hadn’t gotten in the way, we’d have all been Red a long time ago.
Poopyman
@Keith G: I blame Moaning Myrtle.
Cacti
I also always get a good laugh about the rose colored lenses through which leftier-than-thou types like Moore view FDR.
Ask George Takei about his childhood memories during the Roosevelt administration.
Xantar
@El Tiburon:
Really? Your response to Betty Cracker is to go Fournier?
Roger Moore
@docg:
@balconesfault:
Michael Moore, people, Michael Moore. I am not that guy!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Xantar: The Cult of the Presidency has many mansions, and all of them are haunted by more Daddy Issues than a drunken Tom Brokaw
Chyron HR
@El Tiburon:
I realize that you’re incapable of any political analysis beyond “Me hate Obummer”, but surely on some level you must be aware that–in the purest literal sense of the word–the Evil Grand Bargain didn’t technically “happen”, right?
Roger Moore
@Baud:
We are different people. I’m sure the people who have seen me at Balloon-Juice meetups can vouch for that.
Shakezula
@docg: He was white!
Alex Milstein
In the course of one week, Forbes Magazine says Obama has been better for the economy than St Ronald was…and Michael Moore says he has not accomplished anything. Bizarro world, indeed.
Jebediah, RBG
@JPL:
aren’t they the scammy one? I just saw a slick ad from them on my teevee.
Roger Moore
@Alex Milstein:
Proof that Obama is a DINO./firebagger
Cervantes …
@Alex Milstein:
Except that’s not exactly what Moore said in that interview.
bobbo
@Belafon:
“Would FDR be FDR had he started his job on Jan 21, 1930?’
And didn’t have overwhelming majorities in the House and Senate?
Dog On Porch
What is this “Wall Street reform” of which you speak?
My first reaction to Moore’s opinion was “health insurance”. Beyond that, he simply gave vent to the frustration a lot of democratic rank and file feel in expectations unfulfilled. My expectations weren’t all that high to begin with, and I’ve been disappointed overall. That said, I remain pleased that he, and not Hillary, prevailed in 2008.
The republican party is a fascist organization, bent on rule or ruin, prepared to seize and maintain power by any means necessary, including committing treason that unleashes war. The president obviously believes otherwise. Unless and until the democratic party begins to engage this domestic enemy in just such terms, it will continue to be rolled.
Patrick
@Keith G:
Crazy isn’t it?
Yet, this is exactly what the good people of Utah wanted…
Nearly six out of 10 Utahns believe teachers should be allowed to pack firearms in the classroom and more than half oppose stricter gun laws in the wake of the mass shooting at a Connecticut school, according to a new survey.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/55688098-90/percent-teachers-gun-utah.html.csp
John N
Can we agree that most people use the President as a stand-in for the government as a whole? In other words, what “Obama” has done to most people is whatever the government has done more broadly during his administration. And that here, specifically, more people are using Obama as a stand-in for the Democratic Party?
I think what a lot of people mean to say is that the Democratic party missed an opportunity to become more liberal during Obama’s ascendancy. Obama himself obviously can’t say a lot of the things that we say here on liberal blogs, it isn’t reasonable to expect him to. But it was a strategic decision made at the beginning of the administration to attempt to treat the Republicans as good faith negotiating partners, and even if they never really saw them that way, to “officially” take the position that Republicans could be negotiated with. It gave them credibility they didn’t deserve, and the result was predictable.
A lot of us want the Democratic party to become more liberal on the whole, and this involves talking like a liberal. There are a whole host of liberal policy positions which would be beneficial to the public as a whole, but they are not generally on the list of “approved” positions that are debated in the government and in the media. A lot of us were hoping that a figure like Obama and the Democratic party that he is the leader of, could shift the range of acceptable positions toward more liberal policies. At the end of his presidency, I’m not sure whether that goal has been achieved. This is the source of frustration, I think. We want to be represented by a party and by elected officials who believe that government isn’t the source of problems, that it can be a major positive force in our day to day lives, and who aren’t afraid to say that. Obama himself has said as much, essentially, but the party apparatus as a whole is still wrestling with that question, and it is a fundamental one for liberals. Anyone who doesn’t believe the government can help people probably isn’t very liberal. We want liberals. We want liberal policies. So it can be tough watching our representatives waver on that fundamental issue.
Archon
Every time I went to get mad at Obama I remember that his election has led to an unprecedented white backlash (and obstruction) from people that would rather see America laid low then the President succeed (ie… Debt default debates)
A significant percentage of the American population have literally lost their minds over Obama’s election. Last time that happened to an electorate was Lincoln and all he had to do was find a way to kill them. Obama has to share power with traitors trying to sabotage the U.S government to discredit his Presidency.
rikyrah
@Mnemosyne:
SS it was a racist piece of legislation and because of it’s design, it affects the checks of Black Seniors TODAY…because THEY WERE CHEATED OUT OF YEARS OF CONTRIBUTIONS…
let’s be clear…
THEIR CHECKS ARE SMALLER THAN THEY SHOULD BE TODAY BECAUSE OF FDR’S CONCESSIONS TO THE RACIST SOUTHERN DEMOCRATS.
and this is whole swaths of the Black Senior Community.
the reason why 65 was chosen as the age for Medicare was because Black folk didn’t live to be that old when created.
Obamacare is the first expansion of the American Social Safety net, that, IN ITS DESIGN, did NOT exclude huge swaths of the populace.
It took the Roberts Court to do that.
John N
@Dog On Porch: Yes, this is a good comment – the real issue of our time is the fascist Republican party, and his failure to address THAT may very well end up being his real legacy. Like Chamberlain.
Patrick
@El Tiburon:
Funny, this is one area where I really like what Obama has done. And as a result, the US is now much more respected than under Bush. I should know since I travel abroad now and then. Bush’s war in Iraq has for all practical purposes come to an end. Unlike Bush he actually bothered to get bin Laden. Khadaffi is gone, the dictator of Egypt is gone. Assad may be gone soon.
Mnemosyne
@rikyrah:
Yep — a lot of FDR’s accomplishments happened because he threw minorities under the bus (to use an emo-prog expression). I keep asking “progressives” to tell me which minority group they would be okay with Obama screwing over so they could get their wish list implemented the way FDR did it, but I never seem to get an answer.
Hal
Is Obama really any more disappointing a President than his predecessors? I just don’t understand where people like Moore are coming from. I get everyone has their pet issues, things they would love to see done, but why is any other President a mixed bag, while Obama gets labeled an abject failure?
I had a friend on Facebook rant once that other than healthcare reform and gay rights, she was oh so disappointed in Obama. I was sitting thinking, damn, those two things alone aren’t half bad, but I guess if you look at everything the President has done, and also take into account the current intransigence of Congress, I just don’t see how someone, especially Liberals, can be so damn butt hurt.
Patrick
@John N:
What exactly did you want Obama to do?
Mnemosyne
@Hal:
I have to say, I am much happier with Obama at this point in his presidency than I was with Bill Clinton at the same point. I at least feel as though the ship of state is (slowly) being pointed in the right direction instead of getting welfare “reform,” repeal of Glass-Steagal, etc. etc.
Elie
@Archon:
The thing that is truly sad, is NOT that Obama is being discredited, but that the presidency and other critical government components are also being trashed. People don’t seem to get it. Obama is going to be gone in two years but we have to live with the dysfunction that was used to cower sound legislation and governance AFTER HE IS GONE. Do you think that Congress is going to start suddenly working then? Do you think that the corporate bloodsuckers are going to ease up on their influence?
We personalize our system into likes and dislikes of individuals instead of understanding how the whole thing is supposed to work and that its supposed to work after given individuals are no longer in power. THAT confidence in those systems and consistency is what has been destroyed…. and lefties should be cognizant of piling onto that. Unless you are for some libertarian vision where we don’t need government, be careful what you piss on. The President deserves respect not only for his very real accomplishments, but what he represents for those of us who actually want governance.
Mandalay
@El Tiburon:
Agreed. Few issues can be attributed solely to the president, but any blame for the Administration’s wars on journalists who refuse to snitch, and whistleblowers (who snitch by definition) can fairly be placed at Obama’s feet.
If he was truly opposed to what has been going on it wouldn’t be happening.
WereBear
I’m just imagining the Obama Administration confronting the immature racists of the Republican Party with that reality. During a financial crisis. With vast swathes of the country imaging a kind of Mau Mau uprising happening right there in front of the local Wal-Mart.
Have you ever tried to reason with just one wingnut? And how well did that go?
Elie
I also think that there have been profound cultural changes for Obama’s terms that will forever change us. We are now in the era of extreme self centerdness and entitlement evidenced in the “reality shows” and the virtual reality extolled in video games. Iphones , the internent and facebook allow people to connect to their personal bubbles and not much else. This selfishness permeates everything we do and the lack of civility we see exampled by the Housewives of the whatever all the way to our elected leaders, demonstrates that bad behavior is ok. Unfortunately, incivility, leads to no compromise in anything. We all heard recently of planes being turned around when folks got into fights about being able to recline their chairs… their chairs, folks.
We are doing a lot of damage to ourselves….
Roger Moore
@Hal:
I think they would say something about wanting to keep the focus on all the work that needs doing rather than be satisfied with what we have. They may even convince themselves of that, but if that’s the case they need to say it that way, e.g. it’s great that he’s accomplished what he has but there’s too much work left to be done. I suspect that the bigger part of it is that they don’t want to admit satisfaction with anything for fear they’ll lose their leftier-than-thou credentials to somebody who comes up with a way of attacking the President from the left.
Howard Beale IV
@C.V. Danes:
You can thank Obama’s appointment of Holder, who appointed that sniveling rat-bastard weasel Lanny Breuer for his non-feasance.
WereBear
I don’t know who said it first, but I’ll always remember the explanation that a true snob can never like anything, out of fear that someone snobbier will come along and say, “So that’s the kind of thing you like.”
Miserable way to go through life.
John N
@WereBear: I agree that they’re impossible to reason with, but that’s kind of the point. They remain just as impossible to reason with, if not even more so. Obviously no one wants the big fight that would come from confronting them for what they really are, but kicking the can down the road doesn’t address the problem. We all agree that they’re totally nuts, I just wish we, as a party, were more inclined to say that in no uncertain terms.
gogol's wife
@cckids:
That is beautiful — both the quoted comment and yours. I agree completely and wish I could get you on network news.
John N
@Roger Moore: No, I think it’s more that, despite any accomplishments, there ARE still a lot of things to be done, so there IS no reason to be satisfied with what we’ve done. It’s annoying to have to preface every criticism with “I know he’s accomplished X and Y, but,” and most people just aren’t going to bother doing that when they have gripes.
Cervantes
@John N: Plus most people too defensive to evaluate the gripes rationally aren’t going to hear you say the “I know he’s accomplished X and Y, but” part.
Bobby Thomson
@bobbo: or a very popular and winnable war against definable nation states?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
This reminds of how they were going on about how GW Bush would be the greatest president ever once history made it’s judgement, not a non person the second he left office. No real way to predict how history will view a president until the effects of his policies are examined.
Meanwhile, a black man named “Obama” being elected president is a pretty big deal and marks a major cultural turning point. This like dismissing Emperor Septimius Serverus as merely being the first non-Roman emperor of the Roman empire. It ignores Rome had to go out of Rome to find a competent emperor. .
Elie
speaking of something that we CAN do something about but are not yet helping, here it is:
Now this we could take action — but we would rather kill ISIS than save this poor country…
John N
Plus, the other thing is we’re all tired, and frustrated, and poor, and hungry! People need legitimate change in the way that business is done in this country. It’s political, partially, but it’s social, too. The President doesn’t really have the kind of power necessary to fix that. But people are hungry and frustrated, and railing against the entire establishment, and that includes the President.
roxy
There have been times when I wished President Obama had taken a different road. I am thankful he has been our President for the past 6 years. As some of our commenters say he is the only adult in the room. If he could run again he would get my vote.
Dog On Porch
@Mnemosyne: An “emo-prog prog expression”?
Let me guess.
Class of ’95, Liberty University.
LT
I love Michael Moore.
I would have said what he did differently, but Big Point? Yes. I agree. HUGE Dem potential for U.S. shot in the face during Obama admin.
LT
And the ACA: Does international perspective count AT ALL? Cuz if it does, here’s how it would be expressed:
YAY U.S.A WE’RE ALMOST WHERE UK WAS 70 YEARS AGO!
It’s an accomplishment, yes. But so many Americans ignore how ridiculous it looks to most of the modern world.
LT
What @John N:
Exactly.
Not sure? Really?
eemom
@LT:
Thanks for reminding me again why I spend much less time than I used to on this blog, you clueless asshole.
Mnemosyne
@Dog On Porch:
TBogg, 2008.
Jebediah, RBG
@Elie:
Well said.
Donald
Obama will be remembered for a mixture of things, good and bad. The ACA will be seen as good first step (I hope).
But his administration will also be remembered as the one that demonstrated once and for all that American officials are above the law–we need to move on and not prosecute torturers, but whistleblowers are prosecuted to the fullest extent possible.
Citizen Alan
@El Caganer:
Yeah, to be fair, the president from 1908 to 1912 was Taft, and I don’t remember anything about him except that he was the fattest president. Also, given the last 40 years of US history, I think it’s an extraordinary achievement that Obama WONT be remembered for catastrophic fuckups like his eight predecessors.
NA
@John N:
You are kidding me.
NA
@LT:
Seriously?
brantl
@El Tiburon: Sorry, no “we” don’t.
C.V. Danes
@LAC:
Poseur punching I can live with :-)
Patricia Kayden
@El Tiburon: Speak for yourself. Obama was reelected easily. You didn’t get what you wanted. That is your problem.
Patricia Kayden
@Alex Milstein: Actually Moore’s cooments were made in 2012 prior to Obama’s reelection. Don’t know if that makes any difference.
LAC
@C.V. Danes: then that is what I will use. :-D
ruemara
@John N: it’s funny how none of these varieties of “not being absolutist, here’s my progressive criticism of Obama” still sound just as black & white in reasoning as MM’s stupidity. Pandering to fascist GOP and he’s Chamberlain? Jesus.
Cervantes
@Patricia Kayden:
No, he made those comments at this year’s Toronto Film Festival.
El Tiburon
@Patricia Kayden:
.
The argument is what will Obama be remembered for. I understand he has presided over and pushed for a lot of excellent legislation is positive for this country.
But the argument remains that his legacy will not reflect any of that. I mean, Nixon did a lot of positive things, yet, well, you know.
And no, I’m not comparing Obama to Nixon. But Obama was elected at a unique time only seen a few times in our history: the Founding, Civil War, WWII, 1960s era and what should have been the end of the Reagan revolution. As a President stacked up against these times, I think he fails. I fault him for not seizing the opportunity and helping usher in a new progressive era that this nation was hungry for.
And yes goddamnit, I understand how the Republicans today are not the same as prior eras.
El Tiburon
@Chyron HR:
I like Obama. I think he is a solid President and a good person whose sole purpose is to really do what is best for America. But I’m not a frat guy nor am I a party-loyalist (unless arguing with wingnuts, then I tend to defend Obama).
And yes, I am like ‘totally’ aware (oh my god!) that the GB never technically ‘ happened.’ And for that, I will always be ‘thankful’ for the ‘Tea Party’.
El Tiburon
@Betty Cracker:
Understood. That’s why I will hold my nose while voting for Hillary Clinton.
But also too this: at one point in our history, a person like Ronald Reagan was considered too extreme and radical to be elected dog catcher.
So, as long as we continue to settle and told to be good little liberals and stop rocking the boat and continue to hero worship our leaders, we will always be stuck with moderates. Obviously, folks like you and a majority of those on this blog are find and dandy with that.
Paul in KY
@cckids: This all done with unprecedented (verging on treasonous) obstruction from the POSes in the GOP.
Mr. Moore is a dipshit.
Paul in KY
@Hill Dweller: Agreed. If Pres. Obama had the majorities FDR enjoyed…well, we’d be a socialist paradise.
Paul in KY
@docg: He kept us out of war!
LT
@NA: Yes. From here in Australia – where EVERYBODY has guaranteed, low cost health care, and where I pay ZERO $ for insurance, outside of my relatively modest taxes – Obamacare is looked at with sad humor. Honestly, it is. I’m sure it’s true of most countries that have had universal health care for ages.
Cervantes
@Chyron HR:
There’s a word for people who “realize” things that aren’t true. It’ll come to me.