What a Steaming Load of Bullshit

Precisely why the hell did Chief Jackson open his press conference naming the cop who murdered Michael Brown with video of a completely unrelated robbery, when the Chief himself says that the cop who killed Brown was not responding to the robbery?

To smear the victim and blur the lines. That’s why, because I seriously doubt they are going to charge Brown’s corpse with robbery.

I was on the road and out and about all day, and I just came home and watched the presser, and I am just gobsmacked. Beutler is absolutely right:

We now have an answer to question number four, above. According to Police Chief Jackson, “The initial contact between the officer [Darren Wilson] and Mr. Brown was not related to the robbery.” Wilson approached Brown and his companion “because they were walking down the middle of the street, blocking traffic.”

In other words, Wilson didn’t know about the robbery at all when the encounter began. Which calls the incident report’s legal relevance to the circumstance of the shooting into question. If the altercation began under totally different pretenses, why try to connect the two? One reason would be to build a narrative that’s consistent with Wilson’s story. If Brown had just committed a crime, and was willing to tussle, and Wilson thought he was dealing with a couple of harmless jaywalkers, then it’s easier to believe that Brown was combative and Wilson was caught off guard. Both things need to be true if we’re to believe Wilson’s version of events—that Brown assaulted him, lunged for his gun, and was subsequently shot.

It’ll work, too, with a large segment of our population, because OOGITY BOOGITY SCARY NEGRO!

The entire god damned Ferguson police force needs to find new jobs, starting with that Chief. And if you really want to get depressed, read Julia Ioffe interviewing white folks from St. Louis. Wonder how many of the white cops in Ferguson live in neighborhoods like that?

206 replies
  1. 1
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Well, yes John. It’s time to pull a Trayvon Martin on Mike Brown. The most damning witness needs to be smeared as well. The vile racist shit that is Darren Wilson needs to be defended at all costs, no matter how many mud people lives are damaged in the process.

  2. 2
    Trentrunner says:

    Kornacki on MSNBC just reported that the Ferguson Chief of Police has reversed himself AGAIN:

    Ferguson police now say that Darren Wilson saw that Brown had the cigarillos and DID realize that Brown might be a suspect, and that’s why Wilson stopped Brown.

    This. Is. Amazing.

  3. 3

    This is off the topic, but I just heard that Rick Perry got indicted for abuse of power. Does anybody know anything about this?

  4. 4
    justwow says:

    You trying to defend robbing grocery stores now? Nobody forced him to do that or get caught on camera doing it.

  5. 5
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Trentrunner: Orwell’s imagination wasn’t vivid enough, it seems…even the scene at the rally where in the middle of it the enemy changes and the crowd goes wild at Eastasian sabotage of the propaganda posters.

  6. 6
    max says:

    because OOGITY BOOGITY SCARY NEGRO!

    Dude. You just summed up two hundred and twenty-five years of Dixiecrat politics by identifying the main (maybe only) plank in their platform. That’s really the whole kit-n-kaboodle right there.

    So, like, you were expecting something different from a bunch of Hannity-watching cops?

    max
    [‘You, of all people, should understand these folks. No, not a charge of racism, but really, the whole 911 thing was just a variation on a theme: OOGITY BOOGITY SCARY MUSLIM!’]

  7. 7
    Jacks mom says:

    I’m going to assume that you are not surprised by this Mr. Cole. I know I’m not. Outraged & pissed yes. Surprised, unfortunately not. Sometimes I really hate this fucking country!

  8. 8
  9. 9
    Comrade Nimrod Humperdink says:

    This whole thing is just awful, and yeah that piece you linked at the end is damn depressing Cole. I’d like to think things were better than that but people just insist on disabusing me of that notion.

  10. 10
    scav says:

    The finest in what Missouri law enforce has to offer, running yet another flawless operation. Let’s give them some more free ex-military guns and hummers! Competence allied to Fairness in that post-racial Supreme-endorced Utopia? Show Me Missouri.

  11. 11
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):

    Talking about it one thread down.

  12. 12
    MattF says:

    Well, this is the guy who blamed ‘outside agitators’ for the ruckus in Ferguson, so we know where he stands. It’s important to stay on his case– he’s the guy, after all, who supervises hiring, training and equipping the police force, and we can see where that’s led.

    More generally, although it’s true enough that the Ferguson cops all need to be fired, it’s also true that a lot of the problem is long-standing mismanagement. When every person in a police department is an asshole, that means a problem at the top.

  13. 13
    Valdivia says:

    Great explainer on the background of the Perry indictment. Worth a read.
    http://www.texasobserver.org/e.....w-scandal/
    Sorry for the OT

  14. 14
    Baud says:

    Somewhere, the Keystone Cops are saying WTF.

  15. 15
    Valdivia says:

    On this horrific story I can only say character assassination, tainting the jury pool and creating the officer was right defense. Disgusting.

  16. 16
  17. 17
    gocart mozart says:

    Twitter Eye Witness saw the killing of Mike Brown
    https://twitter.com/7im/timelines/499639344613695488

  18. 18
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Now, apparently, they’re claiming the cop did know about the robbery, saw MB carrying “cigars”, and approached him as a suspect

  19. 19
    Tommy says:

    @Baud: God damn right.

  20. 20
    different-church-lady says:

    John, I need to ask a question now in all sincerity and respect.

    Now that you are on a recovery journey, please provide your personal views/guidelines/preferences/rules/whatever regarding the use of +X jokes, which, as we know have been a frequently-used portion of BJ humor in the past.

    I am interested in doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that in any way inhibits your desire to sober up. But right now I am +1, +disconcertion (is that a word?) over today’s revelations, and I want to know if you feel that if third parties were to continue joking about that it would bother you.

    You’re a good guy, you’re trying to do a difficult thing, and you deserve respect (in a general sense — I reserve the right to disrespect you on specific items…)

  21. 21
    Snowwy says:

    The comments over there at New Republic…
    You know what? I can’t. I just can’t. I’m more angry even than over Trayvon Martin. Brown was murdered under color of authority. That people accept it, call it a good thing, makes it pure fucking fascism.

    And we all know this is extremely likely to end with the exoneration of Wilson despite damning evidence.

    Burn it all the fuck down already.

  22. 22
    Baud says:

    Ferguson needs a black sheriff even more than Rock Ridge did.

  23. 23
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    I am going to go to bed tonight and sleep the sleep of the righteous because John Cole used the term “gobsmacked” I would like to think that he got it from me. I could be wrong but I don’t think so.

  24. 24
    Cacti says:

    Wonder how many of the white cops in Ferguson live in neighborhoods like that?

    Many, if not most.

    The ones who do live in Ferguson are angry at “them” for populating what used to be a majority white town.

  25. 25
    Cacti says:

    @gocart mozart:

    Wonder how many of the white cops in Ferguson live in neighborhoods like that?

    I truly hope this person comes forward. While Dorian Johnson is now compromised as a witness, if there are two other uninvolved, third-party witnesses who testify to Brown getting shot down from behind, it makes it much harder to accept the officer’s version of events.

  26. 26
    SarahT says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: @kc: @Valdivia: I know it’s just a dream, but can we live in hope that some day, Rick Perry will be awoken in his cell by a baritone voice, saying,”Y’all got some purdy hair”… ?

  27. 27
    Tommy says:

    @Baud: I just got a disk from Netflix. Deadwood. Thanking there might be a little of that going on.

  28. 28
    SarahT says:

    @Baud: ha !

  29. 29
    John Cole +0 says:

    @different-church-lady: Say whatever you want. You aren’t the one with a problem, I am. Just because I can’t drink responsibly doesn’t mean others can’t- and I’m going to have a pretty miserable existence the rest of my life if I can’t handle the fact that booze exists.

    Hell, I’ve already spent several nights hanging out with people who themselves were drinking and actually pretty damned drunk.

    In other words, it isn’t an issue.

    Now, if you were to drive in front of me doing ten miles below the speed limit and brake uphill and not use turn signals, that will piss me off. I almost broke down in tears today as I followed a person who braked all the way through turns and didn’t accelerate out of them. Just braked the whole way until the road was straight and then gave a light application of gas. I died a little inside every second I was behind her.

  30. 30
    Kay (not the front-pager) says:

    So it took 6 full days to figure out that Michael Brown stole some cigarillos (and even longer to figure out if Wilson knew when he murdered Brown). I guess that makes sense; it took 2 days to assign an officer to the case according to the report they released. /snark

    Seriously, who believes they wouldn’t have released that information immediately if it were true. My guess is they have spent the last 6 days looking for something to pin on him. I even kind of doubt that film is from last Saturday. Otherwise why did they include the report in the press packet but the chief didn’t mention it in the press conference?

    I’m composing this in the semi-dark on a 7″ android tablet so any typos are its fault. Heck let’s blame any errors in logic on it too.

  31. 31
    Keith G says:

    @Tommy: Be prepared to be sucked into one of the best dramas ever on television – certainly the best western. It will take your breath away.

  32. 32
    Equal Opportunity Cynic says:

    Seeing Julia Ioffe’s piece taken seriously and published in a place like TNR is depressing for what it says about the state of journalism, but that’s really really tangential to the point of this post, the St Louis Country cops’ duplicity in their smear campaign against Brown.

  33. 33

    We have to give the Ferguson police credit for a little Internet savvy. Well, at least they went out and found some. Now all the stories on the Internet about the officer’s identity have the convenience store video as their associated image when you search for information, not a picture of him.

  34. 34
    different-church-lady says:

    @John Cole +0:

    Hell, I’ve already spent several nights hanging out with people who themselves were drinking and actually pretty damned drunk.

    I got good faith you’re going to make it.

    Now, if you were to drive in front of me doing ten miles below the speed limit and brake uphill and not use turn signals, that will piss me off.

    The chances of ME doing that are literally zero.

  35. 35
    Laertes says:

    Johnson, not Brown, is the primary target of the smear. Johnson’s eyewitness account of the shooting is plausible, and extremely damaging to the police.

    The police are probably hoping that by showing evidence that Johnson knocked over a convenience store shortly before the shooting, they’ll undermine his credibility as a witness to Brown’s murder.

  36. 36

    @justwow:

    I didn’t realize that theft was a capital crime in Missouri. At least in Saudi Arabia they just cut off your hand instead of killing you.

  37. 37
    Original Lee says:

    I thought the timeline had Brown putting the container of cigars on the counter and leaving without them, so it can’t be theft, can it?

  38. 38
    Shalimar says:

    @Cacti: What is the officer’s version of events? I read about the difference in accounts of what happened in the scuffle through the car window, but the killing shot wasn’t fired at that range. I don’t see any way that shooting an unarmed man from a distance after that isn’t still murder.

  39. 39
    chopper says:

    @Trentrunner:

    Oh Jesus, guys, you’re supposed to get the lie figured out before you open your traps.

  40. 40
    scav says:

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone): Summery execution upon suspicion is the new Star-Sptangled Standard. Saves on Costs and all the fiddling execution drug restrictions. If it interfere with the free-makret value of labor, something will happen to correct the situation. Never underestimate the nostalgic wandering about who ain’t seen one good lynching in years and yearn for brighter days.

  41. 41
    chopper says:

    @Original Lee:

    And thus the cop couldn’t have seen brown carrying them either.

  42. 42
    Cacti says:

    @Shalimar:

    What is the officer’s version of events? I read about the difference in accounts of what happened in the scuffle through the car window, but the killing shot wasn’t fired at that range. I don’t see any way that shooting an unarmed man from a distance after that isn’t still murder.

    Good question.

    6-days later and still no incident report from the shooting.

  43. 43
    scav says:

    ignore me. I’m that mad at the execution porn convention flooding the nets.

  44. 44
    Heliopause says:

    “Bruh” the Twitterer seems to have had knowledge of the cigar theft within minutes of the killing.

  45. 45
    Shalimar says:

    Btw, if anyone wants to get rid of a former friend who is annoying you, when she brings this up and says he deserved it for robbery, feel free to respond “may your child be murdered by police the next time he steals $50 from your purse.”

  46. 46
    efgoldman says:

    @justwow:

    Nobody forced him to do that or get caught on camera doing it.

    Well, I always thought mere possession of Swisher Sweets (ugh!) was a capital offense, even if he bought them. But I’m probably in the minority around here.

  47. 47
    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN) says:

    @Original Lee: In the video, the man in the white t-shirt clearly has something in his hand when he leaves and doesn’t ever stop by the counter. So if he was carrying a package of Swisher Sweets he definitely doesn’t leave it on the counter. None of that addresses whether or not it actually is Michael Brown, or whether he is in fact in the middle of stealing something, or whether what he’s carrying is a package of cigarillos. But he doesn’t leave it on the counter.

  48. 48
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Heliopause: his first tweets were at 10 am, the one about the cigarillos was at 1:30

  49. 49
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Unfortunately, that video of Brown apparently threatening a store clerk and stealing items from a store will be played over and over again and in the minds of many viewers will justify the police officer’s actions.

    Even before this video was released, conservatives were calling Brown a thug. Now they have the proof they were looking for that he got what he deserved.

    If the police officer is charged and brought to trial, he’ll be acquitted.

    Very unfortunate.

  50. 50
    Larv says:

    @efgoldman:
    Depends on what you’re doing with them. If you’re actually smoking them, then yes, you should probably be shot. But as a blunt wrapper they’re acceptable.

  51. 51
    Original Lee says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): In that clip, yes, but I thought someone posted a timeline on one of the other threads that has him coming back into the store and putting something on the counter before leaving again. Or maybe I’ve just been reading too many posts on this today.

  52. 52
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Patricia Kayden: I heard the family’s news conference, the first question was very hostile one about the “robbery” and how the clerk was “roughed up”– I’m betting the local Fox affiliate– the second one about whether his mother knew what he was “supposed” to be doing that day. Cause, you know, we all gave our parents full and accurate itineraries when we were 18.

  53. 53
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Kay (not the front-pager):

    Also, he said that the reason they released the convenience store video today was because of media FOIA requests. But the first anybody heard about the c.s. robbery was today at that press conference, right? So how could the media have known to ask for video of an event they didn’t know about?

  54. 54
    Heliopause says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Yeah, the time stamps aren’t lining up in this story, which says it was a thirty minute difference. Regardless, it doesn’t change the point; the info was available shortly after the incident to someone who was supposedly holed up in his apartment at the scene.

  55. 55
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Cacti:

    6-days later and still no incident report from the shooting.

    Am wondering how they would go about that since according to USA Today Officer Darren Wilson and his family left town several days ago.

  56. 56
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Equal Opportunity Cynic: Gotta agree with you on Ioffe’s crappy, lazy article. But yeah, like you said, that’s trivial in comparison to the game the cops seem to be playing.

  57. 57
    kc says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    But the first anybody heard about the c.s. robbery was today at that press conference, right?

    No, I heard talk Sunday night about a report of a robbery of a convenience store. There weren’t any details and I didn’t hear anything about it in the media, so I didn’t think of it again until today.

    I’ve been operating this whole time under the assumption that Brown and his friend hadn’t done anything, were just walking and were accosted and then Brown was grabbed by this cop. I’ve even argued with a couple wingers about it. I gotta say, when I saw that surveillance video this AM, I felt like a chump.

    Now assuming that’s Brown robbing the store and slamming that clerk, and even assuming that he punched the cop, that doesn’t BY ANY MEANS justify his getting shot in the back and head multiple times (if that’s even what happened). But I feel like a chump.

  58. 58
    different-church-lady says:

    @kc:

    I’ve been operating this whole time under the assumption that Brown and his friend hadn’t done anything, were just walking and were accosted and then Brown was grabbed by this cop. I’ve even argued with a couple wingers about it. I gotta say, when I saw that surveillance video this AM, I felt like a chump.

    Yes. I feel like I’ve been lied to. I just can’t figure out who did the lying.

  59. 59
    gbear says:

    @John Cole +0:

    I died a little inside every second I was behind her.

    I’ve been +0 for almost 30 years but I was ready to run someone off the road for doing the exact same thing earlier this week. I was behind them on a road with a lot of signals and stop signs, and every time they would pull away from a stop, their brake lights would be on before they cleared the intersection. There was no reason for it – no heavy traffic, they just decided that they were over-accelerating and had to slow down below 20mph. Pissed the hell out of me.

    I’ve been following the Ferguson shit all day today and that’s got me pissed off too. I bet that Johnson, the guy they put in charge of crowd control, is fucking livid. If Jackson keeps on opening his yap, it’s going to make it really hard to keep the protestors from wanting to smash shit. I sure as hell would be ready to.

  60. 60
    SFAW says:

    because OOGITY BOOGITY SCARY NEGRO!

    John –
    In situations like this, I believe the correct word is “nigger.” Because I’m a-guessing no one who thinks of blacks/African-Americans as “Negroes” would respond the way Officer Wilson did. (Yes, I realize you were talking about the shit-for-brains-es who watch Fox, etc., not necessarily just Wilson himself.) They might think that Negroes should pull theyselves up by they bootstraps and all that shit, but they aren’t necessarily OK with white-Sharia street executions.

    But this is Missouri, after all, where Cape Girardeau – home of that evil, fat, evil, drug-addicted, evil, pedophilic motherfucker – is located.

    But the most important question will be, did Mike Brown’s house have granite countertops? Because if it did, then he had no right to expect due process.

    Based on someone’s comments in here — Anne Laurie’s? Betty Cracker’s? Aimai’s? — I took “Devil in the Grove” out from the library. I’m only part-way through it, so reading Chief Jackson’s blame-the-victim, “nigger-had-it-comin’ ” bullshit makes me wonder whether I pulled a reverse Rip van Winkle.

  61. 61
    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN) says:

    @different-church-lady: I’ve been of the opinion that everyone is lying for most of this last week. The police are obviously full of shit but I got a jittery vibe off of Dorian Johnson and his lawyer, too.

  62. 62
    kc says:

    @different-church-lady:

    Yes. I feel like I’ve been lied to. I just can’t figure out who did the lying.

    I’m not even sure anyone lied, yet. Maybe it’s just been really poor communication by the PD and crappy work by much of the national media, and pissed-off people on blogs and Twitter, and so I’ve just been feasting on bad information and partial information and speculation. I feel like a chump because I’ve spent the last few days firmly believing a narrative that fit my biases. I feel stupid.

    Guess I’ll wait to see what the full autopsy report says.

  63. 63
    kc says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):

    I got a jittery vibe off of Dorian Johnson and his lawyer, too

    I didn’t; I thought Johson was a fine witness. I was all, “Just cause he has a lawyer doesn’t mean he did anything wrong!” All indignant.

    Shit.

  64. 64
    Baud says:

    @kc:

    It’s almost as if the process has a purpose.

  65. 65
    shelley says:

    Ferguson police now say that Darren Wilson saw that Brown had the cigarillos

    Well, Geeeeeee, Ferguson PD, don’t you think it might have been a good idea to have mentioned this right at the beginning, instead of all that idiotic stumbling about that Michael ‘tried to get the officer’s gun’ or ‘resisted.’ You know, before you let things spiral out of control. It took five days for anybody to bring up this convenient ‘fact.’ that nobody with half a brain cell will believe.

  66. 66
    SFAW says:

    @kc:
    If Wilson had in any way considered the alleged robbery as justification for his “stop” of Brown, we would have heard about it within 6 hours, not 6 days later.

    Not that police departments EVER make shit up to justify their executions, of course. And I’m sure Amadou Diallo would back me up on that, if he were able to read this blog.

  67. 67
    skerry says:

    A little info about Officer Wilson.

    Lives 26 miles from Ferguson in a community with 1.3% black population.

    I really think cops need to live where they work.

  68. 68
    Gravenstone says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Also, he said that the reason they released the convenience store video today was because of media FOIA requests.

    That should be simple to check. What outlet made the request? When did they file it? What was the specific target of the request? All those should be public record.

  69. 69
    SFAW says:

    @kc:

    Guess I’ll wait to see what the full autopsy report says.

    I think it will tell us that Michael Brown died from gunshot wounds.

    Although, if Chief Jackson has his way, that may get turned into “lead poisoning.”

    You probably didn’t mean “autopsy,” though, did you?

  70. 70
    Betty Cracker says:

    @skerry: I think that’s a good policy in general.

  71. 71
    Comrade Luke says:

    Sequence One
    1. Cop tells kids to get off the street
    2.
    3. Kid gets killed

    Sequence Two
    A. Kid try to steal some cigs from a store shortly before the above events.

    These two sequences of events are completely unrelated, by the admission of the police chief himself. How anyone could feel bad about defending the kid for getting shot, based on what we currently know, I have no idea. It’s like saying “The cop shot and killed the kid, but the kid wasn’t perfect in every aspect of his life, so I’m conflicted”. This is same as the “both sides do it” bullshit, but with actual lives at stake. Don’t fall for it.

    What really needs to be known is #2 above. And I don’t know if we’ll ever know that.

    And unfortunately, The Great Swisher Sweet Caper will almost assuredly get the cop acquitted, largely due to jurists having the same bogus “conflict” as some of the posters here.

  72. 72
    lamh36 says:

    I love that the victim of violent crime has to always be pure as the driven snow for some people to be “comfortable” defending their rights NOT to be victimized. But then again, much like usual, Black folk have to be pure as the driven snow for some white folk to defend ’em for anything.

    I think it’s time I take a minute away. Cause I find myself soo angry right now. And NOT at Mike Brown or the people of Ferguson, but by supposed allies, who are just as ready to throw you under the bus as soon as the going gets tougher.

    Oh and I guess it’s a proven fact that the pic and the video IS Mike Brown? At the very least, it looks alot like the big Black guy, so the point is conceded with nothing other than the Ferguson PD’s word. So a corrupt police force wouldn’t dare try to assassinate the character or make up shit to get someone…

    Oh, and the Officer who fired the shots is no where to be found. He has been gone for days!

    Ugh, ya know what Fuck it. I am seething and too pissed right now. I hate seeing that this is all it takes for some people to join in the maligning of this dead kid….but whatever….

  73. 73
    scav says:

    Beyond the incompetent PR, execrable crowd management and stellar community relationships, we’ve also still got a kid left unattended in the street after being shot for a few hours. Whee for policing at it’s intelligent and measured finest. Funny that emergency care for another downed suspect on relatively trivial charges wasn’t apparently attempted in the recent NYC case either. Must have spent all the PD budget on the fancy weaponry.

    By all means, the crux of the entire moral situation is the exact financial status of a cigarillo.

  74. 74
    kc says:

    @SFAW:

    @kc:
    If Wilson had in any way considered the alleged robbery as justification for his “stop” of Brown, we would have heard about it within 24 hours, not 6 days later.

    I’m not sure what the PD is saying now is the justification for the initial contact. That’s one of the things I was really confused about earlier. Still am.

  75. 75
    raven says:

    What’s this +0 shit anyway?

  76. 76
    SFAW says:

    I’m starting to think that this was just another case of XWB, where “X” is a placeholder for doing anything (such as driving).

    Actually, that’s a lie. I started thinking that awhile ago.

  77. 77
    Comrade Luke says:

    @lamh36: Couldn’t agree more.

  78. 78
    gian says:

    @Valdivia:

    it won’t change the forensics of being shot in the back, but I expect a judge would let the a jury see it under a defense theory that it 1) impeaches the character of Mr. Brown’s friend who is a witness and 2) explains in some way Mr. Brown’s conduct when contacted by the shooter.

    the ship has sailed on doing this correctly. I don’t think this could ever have been done correctly given the already polarized relations between the government and the governed in Ferguson. The government there has so poisoned the atmosphere, that the probable best course – hand it off to an outside agency to do an independent fair investigation and let the chips fall where they may while stating “we can’t comment on this it’s an ongoing investigation” – won’t work because the citizens there have a good reason to believe there wouldn’t be a full, and independent investigation

    releasing that video NOW only serves to further entrench the power structure versus the citizens divide

  79. 79
    Kay says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    But it’s always complicated. If we’re saying that a jury can never focus in the series of events and analyze the specific issue and discern what are the relevant facts (which will be NARROW- did the officer know he was a suspect? Was he fleeing?) then juries always need a clean, neat story with angels v devils and that is NEVER how it is in real life.

    It can’t be all about the story or the narrative or juries will never work as “factfinders” and we’re all just kidding ourselves with this elaborate system we’ve set up.

    It can’t ONLY work when it’s an easy call or a slam dunk. If that’s true it wouldn’t work most of the time.

    Hopefully they can still function and do the job amid all this bullshit and besides whatever bias they arrive with because it is almost always complicated and not as tidy as one might want.

  80. 80
    lamh36 says:

    @JoyAnnReid 3m
    Ferguson convenience store owner’s lawyer says store employees didn’t call police after alleged robbery: http://www.timesfreepress.com/.....teen/?news

    @JoyAnnReid 9m
    @profblmkelley not saying there wasn’t a 911 call. There was. But the timeline of the incident reports released today needs clearing up.

    ‏@profblmkelley 7m
    @JoyAnnReid Okay. They are working hard to bolster the officer’s story before his report is released.

    @JoyAnnReid 6m
    @profblmkelley that’s certainly what it looks like. Just based on the timeline we have so far.

    @profblmkelley 5m
    @JoyAnnReid because if that incident was important, it would have been important THAT DAY. Video would have been pulled then.

    @JoyAnnReid 3m
    @profblmkelley right. If it’s an active robbery investigation, where the victim plans to press charges, you order that video asap.

    @profblmkelley 2m
    @JoyAnnReid Yes, because some videos are tape and get taped over pretty quickly. You’d move to get evidence particularly of a “robbery.”

  81. 81
    kc says:

    @lamh36:

    Oh and so is a proven fact that the pic and the video IS Mike Brown? At the very least, it looks alot like the big Black guy, so the point is conceded without nothing other than the Ferguson PD’s word. So a corrupt police force wouldn’t dare try to assassinate the character of someone they are trying to get…

    I don’t know if it is or not, but I think Dorian Johnson even says that they were in there and stole cigars.

    Anyway, to be real clear, EVEN IF that was Brown and EVEN IF Brown punched the cop, those facts do not justify his being shot to death.

    BTW, @JoyAnnReid 3m
    Ferguson convenience store owner’s lawyer says store employees didn’t call police after alleged robbery: http://www.timesfreepress.com/…..teen/?news …

    Yes, I saw that; the story she links says the store owner’s lawyer says a customer called the cops, not the owner. Weird.

    I’m sorry about the whole thing.

  82. 82
    gian says:

    @raven:

    it’s saying +0 alcoholic beverages. some people warn when they’re toasted by attaching the number of drinks. others rely on typos and spurious reasoning.

  83. 83
    SFAW says:

    @kc:

    I’m not sure what the PD is saying now is the justification for the initial contact.

    Doesn’t really matter though, does it? They’ve brought it up as a way to “Plan B” (for those of you who remember “The Practice”) Michael Brown. I hope it doesn’t work, but it’s Rupert Murdoch’s world, so who knows?

  84. 84
    raven says:

    I@gian: Hmm, I know I counted the number of days I was sober for about a year. It’s nice when you get past 20 years and don’t have to count.

  85. 85
    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN) says:

    @lamh36:

    Oh and I guess it’s a proven fact that the pic and the video IS Mike Brown?

    Dorian Johnson’s lawyer has said that it is Brown in the video and that he did steal the cigarillos.

    And I should make clear that I in no way think that this condones the shooting. I think the behavior of the Ferguson police over the last week indicates pretty clearly that we shouldn’t trust a word they say and that it pretty clearly was a shooting so unjustifiable as to constitute homicide.

    I’m just not sure that Dorian Johnson and his lawyer have done themselves any favors in how they’ve handled it. At a minimum, this puts a different spin on the whole question of who was preventing the interview between him and the police.

  86. 86
    rikyrah says:

    @lamh36:

    tell it, lamh.

    tell it.

  87. 87
    kc says:

    One thing I wonder about this is why would two people would walk to a store in their neighborhood and just casually steal some shit and rough up the store owner on their way out and then stroll off. On foot. If that’s what happened.

    I mean, what the fuck?

    I just don’t know what to think.

  88. 88
    jrg says:

    OOGITY BOOGITY SCARY NEGRO!

    Who violently assaulted a store clerk minutes before. Nice to see the “soft bigotry of low expectations” is more than a punchline around here.

  89. 89
    rikyrah says:

    The cop who executed Michael Brown DID NOT KNOW ABOUT THE ROBBERY.

    He executed the young man for WALKING WHILE BLACK.

    Period.

    These racist azz muthaphuckas are so used to doing this to Black people that they are actually SHOCKED that they would be found accountable for doing anything to a Black person.

    So, they keep on lying.

  90. 90
    raven says:

    @kc: Why would two teenage boys do some crazy shit?

  91. 91
    kc says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):

    And I should make clear that I in no way think that this condones the shooting.

    I feel like I can’t say that enough either. No one should be put to death for stealing cigars, or assault.

    Unfortunately, I know all too many right wingers who think the death penalty is an appropriate punishment for any crime.

  92. 92
    lamh36 says:

    @rikyrah: they do it cause it works.

    And they know that even white folk (and even some Black) who are on “our” side when confronted with a “not quite pure” suspect or victim or witness, then they will always be happy to use the impurity to sew their own seeds of doubt.

  93. 93

    @jrg:

    And assault carries the death penalty in Missouri? Someone really needs to link me to this statute.

  94. 94
    SFAW says:

    @kc:

    Anyway, to be real clear, EVEN IF that was Brown and EVEN IF Brown punched the cop, those facts do not justify his being shot to death.

    And yet this attempted-distraction seems to recur in your comments – “Well, the Ferguson PD says X, so I’ll have to wait to see if Brown deserved to be executed.”

    As I (and others) have said: if the alleged robbery of a “$50 box of cigars” (in what world [outside of Providence, that is – I’m lookin’ at YOU, ef] could anyone carry $50 of Swisher Sweets without a Bobcat?) had ANYTHING to do with Officer Wilson telling Michael Brown and Dorian Johnson to get out of the middle of the road, this would have been FRONT PAGE FUCKING NEWS on Sunday, not as the purported result of an FOIA request on Friday.

  95. 95
    lamh36 says:

    @kc: if Black folk lived our lives based on what we thought White folk think of us or what white folk feel about us, we be pissed ALL the time.

    Just cause some RWNJs are gonna use “impurity” as a rallying cry, doesn’t mean shit. It should make you begin to feel uncomfortable about defending a murdered kid.

  96. 96
    kc says:

    @SFAW:

    And yet this attempted-distraction seems to recur in your comments – “Well, the Ferguson PD says X, so I’ll have to wait to see if Brown deserved to be executed.”

    No, that’s a gross misstatement. I SAID THE OPPOSITE.

  97. 97
    jrg says:

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone): Way to get the point.

  98. 98
    kc says:

    @SFAW:

    As I (and others) have said: if the alleged robbery of a “$50 box of cigars” (in what world [outside of Providence, that is – I’m lookin’ at YOU, ef] could anyone carry $50 of Swisher Sweets without a Bobcat?) had ANYTHING to do with Officer Wilson telling Michael Brown and Dorian Johnson to get out of the middle of the road,

    Please read what I said. It wasn’t that.

  99. 99
    SFAW says:

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):

    And assault carries the death penalty in Missouri? Someone really needs to link me to this statute.

    Justice Henry Billings Brown issued that ruling.

  100. 100
    raven says:

    A box:

    Swisher Sweets Perfecto Natural Sweet
    4.2Read 93 ReviewsWrite a Review
    Item: R85495
    Promotion Code & Coupon Exclusion

    $39.99
    Qty:

  101. 101
    rikyrah says:

    @lamh36:

    because Black folk have to be purer than pure..

    but, White folks….

    they are never criminals and there must be a ‘ reason’ for why they just shot up a movie theater and killed 11 people..

    or walk into a school and mow down a classroom of 6 year olds….

    or they have to ‘negotiate’ with someone who just killed their entire family…

    we must ‘ understand’ their ‘ mental illness.’.

    uh huh.

  102. 102
    JCT says:

    @kc:

    Unfortunately, I know all too many right wingers who think the death penalty is an appropriate punishment for any crime.

    I would amend “committed by a person of color” to that statement. They damn well aren’t consistent regarding application of their love of the death penalty.

  103. 103
    kc says:

    @lamh36:

    @kc: if Black folk lived our lives based on what we thought White folk think of us or what white folk feel about us, we be pissed ALL the time.

    Just cause some RWNJs are gonna use “impurity” as a rallying cry, doesn’t mean shit. It should make you begin to feel uncomfortable about defending a murdered kid.

    You mean maybe it should NOT make me feel uncomfortable about defending him?

    It doesn’t. You know, it probably doesn’t matter anyway. They’re not gonna change their opinions anyway.

  104. 104
    scav says:

    @jrg: Your judicious and measured distain for the complexities of the legal process unrelated to You’re Accused Bang Bang Bang Bang Bang Bang Bang has been noted. No doubt gold stars and smily faces will be forthcoming from the correct authorities.

  105. 105
    SFAW says:

    @kc:

    #58:

    I’ve been operating this whole time under the assumption that Brown and his friend hadn’t done anything, were just walking and were accosted and then Brown was grabbed by this cop. I’ve even argued with a couple wingers about it. I gotta say, when I saw that surveillance video this AM, I felt like a chump.

    #63

    I’m not even sure anyone lied, yet. Maybe it’s just been really poor communication by the PD and crappy work by much of the national media, and pissed-off people on blogs and Twitter, and so I’ve just been feasting on bad information and partial information and speculation. I feel like a chump because I’ve spent the last few days firmly believing a narrative that fit my biases. I feel stupid.

    #63:

    Guess I’ll wait to see what the full autopsy report says.

    Yeah, you’re right, you didn’t use the exact same words as what I wrote in #95. But you sure seem to be going to some near-great lengths to help them with their cover story du jour.

  106. 106
    SFAW says:

    @raven:

    Wow. That may be the most fucked-up thing I’ve read on this string. That’s like charging $50 for a fifth of Mad Dog (which you can apparently now get in “Dragon Fruit” flavor).

    And, slightly OT, but glad to read you’ve been +0 for so long.

  107. 107
    jrg says:

    @scav: Did you see the video? Michael Brown was huge. He violently attacked the store clerk. This “oggety boogety” or “Kid try to steal some cigs from a store shortly before the above events” stuff is bullshit.

    If you are not afraid of a man that size, who is willing to behave that violently, you are either an idiot, or have never been physically intimidated or assaulted. But because he is black, I’m supposed to ignore all that? Yeah, OK.

  108. 108
    raven says:

    @SFAW: I think it’s a pretty big box of smokes and they probably sell singles. When you file a report you want the max amount for insurance. Mad dog, shit we used to get into that Richard’s Wild Irish Rose and Silver Satin and koolaid!

  109. 109
    kc says:

    @SFAW:

    Well, please don’t take from my comments there that I think the shooting was justified. Especially since I said in subsequent comments that I don’t think it was.

    I’m really annoyed at myself right now for getting wedded to a particular narrative.

  110. 110
    Yatsuno says:

    @jrg: The point is THE ROBBERY HAS FUCK ALL TO DO WITH A 19 YEAR OLD GETTING SLAUGHTERED IN THE STREET!!! Get the fuck off of it & stop doing the racists’ work for them!!!

  111. 111
    SFAW says:

    @jrg:

    Excellent point. Because in at least 43 states and Commonwealths, it is in fact a capital offense to be black, huge. scary, willing to behave violently (because cops now have the ability to read minds), and have taken part in a robbery about which the rousting officer knew nothing.

    Of course, having been assaulted by a large black man when I was younger, my current usual response is to shoot first, ask questions later, even if they’re running away from me.

  112. 112
    scav says:

    @jrg: I’ve more than enough evidence that the general application of force by the PD in question is suspicious enough to be questioned. Their overall competence is has been execrable, they have a past record of disproportionate arrest, their story is late, inconsistent and changing, but I’m supposed to accept the corrects of all their actions and reactions on faith, immediately. Because slowing down and waiting for the full slow mills of judgement is to be awarded them, but not to the dead kid who we can write off once suspected and slightly large.

    ETA: You seem to be personally comfortable with summery execution for anyone cops feel uncomfortable around. I’m not there. I’m also seeing psis-ant and incompetent cops on top of it which makes me really worried about handing them that power.

  113. 113
    Yatsuno says:

    @scav:

    Their overall competence is has been execrable, they have a past record of disproportionate arrest, their story is late, inconsistent and changing, but I’m supposed to accept the corrects of all their actions and reactions on faith, immediately. Because slowing down and waiting for the full slow mills of judgement is to be awarded them, but not to the dead kid who we can write off once suspected and slightly large.

    White privilege is a helluva drug.

  114. 114
    rikyrah says:

    Candace Brown @CandaceTX

    #Ferguson so far, I’ve seen three eyewitnesses tell one story…. and one police chief tell three stories. #MikeBrown

  115. 115
    Anoniminous says:

    test to see if I’m still an UnPerson

    ETA: FYWP has graciously acknowledged my existence.

  116. 116
    SFAW says:

    @kc:

    Well, please don’t take from my comments there that I think the shooting was justified. Especially since I said in subsequent comments that I don’t think it was.

    Yes, I’ve read all, or almost all, of your comments. Both the ones where you deplore the Brown’s shooting, and the ones willing to cut the Ferguson PD some slack re: their changing “justifications.”.

    I’m really annoyed at myself right now for getting wedded to a particular narrative.

    I can’t tell if that’s your way of saying you’re pissed at believing the “well, he robbed a store” BS, or pissed at believing the “Mike Brown was pure as the driven snow” narrative (which I don’t think I’ve heard, but which your “I feel like a chump” statement would indicate was “out there”).

  117. 117
    SFAW says:

    @Anoniminous:

    test to see if I’m still and UnPerson

    You’ll NEVER be an UnPerson with us, baby.

    But, to be sure you’re not, please FAX your credenza to Cole or Anne Laurie or mistermix.

  118. 118
    rikyrah says:

    This is because they’ve been Black in America longer than 3 days.

    Christopher Hayes ✔ @chrislhayes

    I have not talked to a single black resident here who has confidence in McCulloch to investigate and prosecute this case.

  119. 119
    jrg says:

    @scav: That’s true [ETA: the first part of your post]. I don’t trust that PD, based on what I have read. They have done some pretty sleazy stuff in the past.
    @SFAW: That post was so disingenuous, I won’t bother responding.

  120. 120
    kc says:

    @SFAW:

    I don’t know you. I guess it’s really not important what you think I think.

    Have a good night.

  121. 121
    raven says:

    @SFAW:

    “Big Mike,” as some of his friends called Michael Brown Jr., wasn’t the type to fight, though he lived in a restless neighborhood where police were on frequent patrol. His parents and neighbors described him as a good-hearted kid with an easy smile who certainly wouldn’t have condoned the violence and looting that spread though his north St. Louis suburb following his death.

    “He was funny, silly, he would make you laugh,” his father said, and when there was “any problem going on, any situation, there wasn’t nothing that he couldn’t solve. He could bring people back together.”

    Brown, who was unarmed, was shot Saturday by a Ferguson police officer while walking with a friend down the center of the street. Police have said a scuffle broke out after the officer asked the boys to move to the side. Witnesses say Brown’s arms were in the air – in a sign of surrender – as a white policeman repeatedly shot the black youth. . .

    Brown, who had recently graduated from Normandy High School, had been staying at his grandmother’s apartment, where he would often hang out in the parking lot tossing a football with friends, said Markese Mull, a neighbor whose 17-year-old-son was one of Brown’s closer friends.

    Brown was an aspiring rapper, though it was more of a hobby. This week, he was supposed to start college in pursuit of a career as a heating and air conditioning engineer. On the day of this death, Brown had walked with another friend to a nearby convenience store. Mull saw them in the street and honked his horn to say to “hi” – just minutes before the police officer came by.

    “He was never a person who liked confrontation,” Mull said. “His smile was going to make you smile.”

    Neighbors described Brown as quiet and respectful – a “good boy,” who “was never in trouble,” said Sharon Johnson, 58, who lives just a little ways down the street. Johnson said Brown would frequently stop to chat.

    “We talked about how when you turn yourself to the Lord you feel so good – and good things come your way,” Johnson said. “He had a more mature mind than a little boy’s mind.”

    Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/news.....rylink=cpy

  122. 122
    Applejinx says:

    Almost like he was a big kid cranky about living in a world where he could get gunned down like a piece of meat and left to rot in the street for hours, and nobody would do anything, and then everybody would blame it on him.

    OH WAIT

    If all the little stories are actually true, decent of him to go put the cigars back: maybe his friend wanted him to, or maybe it was the friend stealing ’em and he got offended when the store owner got in his face, not realizing they had reason to do so?

    We’ll never know. It’s all fog of war at this point.

    Fact remains, it’s super easy for ‘America’ to decree execution-style killing and leaving the body in the road, for black men, and white men aiming assault rifles at cops or firing them at toddlers get craploads of deference. And this makes me insane and sick in the head, but it’s not me that’s the sick one. It’s the situation, and this shit will not stand.

    I’ll stand with the blacks even if I have to do so with duct tape over my too-chattery, fancy-word-spouting mouth. And I’ll say once more (whilst not wearing duct tape) that all this pisses me off so much I can hardly function. The hell.

  123. 123
    SFAW says:

    @jrg:

    That post was so disingenuous, I won’t bother responding.

    And yet, you did.

    By the way, just so we’re clear, “disingenuous” could might be better applied to your “big scary guy” post.

  124. 124
    kc says:

    @rikyrah:

    Christopher Hayes ✔ @chrislhayes

    I have not talked to a single black resident here who has confidence in McCulloch to investigate and prosecute this case.

    Who can blame them.

    Think I read that at least one local official has McCulloch to recuse himself from this case because his comments about replacing the local cops with state police.

  125. 125
    Cacti says:

    FYI to all:

    There is no offense in the Missouri statutes that is called “strongarm robbery”.

    There is robbery in the first degree and robbery in the second degree.

    Just a little colloquial embellishment by the “he had it coming” crowd to make Brown sound more dangerous/thuggish.

  126. 126
    JCT says:

    @rikyrah: Not to mention the fact that there is no evidence that the 3 witnesses telling essentially the same story know each other or discussed it while it is damn obvious the police chief is very busy trying to construct an internal narrative, likely with tons of “internal” help.

    And failing miserably.

  127. 127
    Kay says:

    @rikyrah:

    I think it’s weird. I thought they were going to.say “fleeing suspect” after the video as a reason for shooting him but they first said the cop didn’t know about theft and that doesn’t fit with “shot fired inside the car” either.

    I feel like they’re covering all the bases at this point – fleeing suspect AND grabbed gun AND assaulted officer and that makes me suspicious about how police are presenting this info and leaving every possible defense open for officer.

  128. 128
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @gian:

    others rely on typos and spurious reasoning.

    Well, that explains all the glibertarians out there.

  129. 129
    raven says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: I never did get that.

  130. 130
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Kay:

    leaving every possible defense open for officer.

    I’m still waiting for one of them to pull a full scale Cartman. I’m sure they will eventually.

  131. 131
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    I don’t care whether Brown stole some Swisher Sweets earlier that day. Nothing justifies shooting an unarmed kid multiple times.

  132. 132
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Applejinx:

    Fact remains, it’s super easy for ‘America’ to decree execution-style killing and leaving the body in the road, for black men

    Unfortunately. yes.

    Now, if it were super easy to decree execution style killing and leaving the body in the executive suite, well, we might consider it.

  133. 133
    SFAW says:

    @kc:

    I guess it’s really not important what you think I think.

    What’s more important is that you actually THINK, rather than do the “ohmigod he may have robbed a store, so I don’t know know what to think about whether shooting an unarmed black boy/youth/man was OK or not.”

    If you didn’t think that the purported robbery was intimately tied to, or might be considered some kind of justification for, his being gunned down, then WHY would you bother to write that you feel like a “chump”? THAT is the point, and HAS BEEN the point.

    So, you can keep playing the “blah blah blah I CAN’T HEAR YOU” game with me, but at some point, you need to figure out whether the cigar store incident – which apparently wasn’t part of the PD narrative until today (or was it yesterday?) — matters.

    If your post at 110, talking about being “wedded to a particular narrative,” was your way of saying “Yeah, I guess the whole ‘robbery’ thing is not relevant,” then I’ll go back to minding my own business (so to speak). If it was your way of saying “Well, the ‘robbery’ angle changes EVERYTHING,” then there’s a problem – which others here have written about more eloquently than I.

  134. 134
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @raven:

    “He had a more mature mind than a little boy’s mind.”

    Ah, one of those uppity ones.

  135. 135
    kc says:

    @SFAW:

    Again, have a nice night.

  136. 136
    raven says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: I’m not sure that is what his neighbor was saying but, hey, if it works for you then jam on.

  137. 137
    gian says:

    @Cacti:

    I think it’s a term of art to denote that it wasn’t weapon armed as opposed to armed with a weapon. A google search brought up this gent’s web page:
    http://www.grandstrandlaw.com/.....66253.html

    Strong armed robbery, also known as common law robbery, occurs when there is no deadly weapon used during the robbery. If a jury finds that the element of the use of a deadly weapon has not been proven, the defendant can be found guilty of strong armed robbery instead of armed robbery. Strong armed robbery is punishable by up to 15 years in prison, and does not have a mandatory minimum sentence.

  138. 138
    SFAW says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Now, if it were super easy to decree execution style killing and leaving the body in the executive suite, well, we might consider it.

    CLASS WARFARE!

  139. 139
    Kay says:

    @rikyrah:

    So shorter! It bothers me that there are possible justification for shooting him and they keep adding facts that all go to various justifications (fleeing felon, went for gun, hit officer)

    Like they’re keeping A, B and now C open depending on what he wants to use as justification. I feel like this should be narrowing instead of getting broader.

  140. 140
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Yatsuno: Alas, my Wazoo friend, this has everything to do with bringing Officer Darren Wilson to justice for the crime he committed.

    Every possible slur will be used against any witness who dares to report precisely what Officer Wilson did. It’s the way it works.

    Yes, I know that the convenience store incident has jack shit to do with the shooting, but the technique is to smear the victim, smear any witnesses, anything at all to create the slightest amount of “reasonable doubt” in the minds of any potential jurors out there. Unfortunately, in Missouri, and much of this country, having a melanin surplus alone makes you half way to “reasonable doubt” in the first place.

    “If you’re looking for Justice, You’ve come to the wrong place” — Tyrion Lannister.

  141. 141
    SFAW says:

    @kc:

    Not. Interested.

    1) And yet, as with jrg, here you are.
    2) Grow. The. Fuck. Up.

  142. 142
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @Kay: Of course it should be narrowing instead of getting broader. We’re thinking like lawyers who would investigate for answers. That PD is behaving like folks grasping at any possible ass coverage they might find. None of which will succeed, in my view. Granted, I’ve only handled about 10 or 15 1983 cases, but I’ve got a hunch here.

  143. 143
    Cacti says:

    @gian:

    I think it’s a term of art to denote that it wasn’t weapon armed as opposed to armed with a weapon.

    I’m familiar with the common law definitions and colloquial names for offenses.

    And again, which sounds more menacing “strong arm robbery” or “robbery in the second degree”? Term of art, my ass.

  144. 144
    SFAW says:

    @kc:

    Again, have a nice night.

    Don’t worry, I will.

    And let’s hope that, when you wake up (in both senses), you stop feeling like a “chump.” (Amazingly enough, that was not snark.)

  145. 145
    kc says:

    @SFAW:

    1) And yet, as with jrg, here you are.
    2) Grow. The. Fuck. Up.

    1) Welp, you keep addressing me.

    2) I’ll get right on it.

  146. 146
    pseudonymous in nc says:

    @Snowwy:

    The comments over there at New Republic…

    Yeah, Ferguson is only anomalous in that it’s a majority-black municipality with a White Flight police force that considers its primary duty to keep Those People in their place, as opposed to a White Flight municipality with a White Flight police force that considers its primary duty to keep the Those People out of town entirely. Carving out little incorporated enclaves in metro areas (defined by being Not The City) doesn’t help here.

  147. 147
    John Revolta says:

    Michael Brown
    Officer Wilson
    Dorian Johnson
    Chief Jackson
    Capt. Johnson

    Christ. Sounds like if you dropped somebody named Shapiro or Patel into this story, the whole goddamned state would explode.

  148. 148
    Nutella says:

    I’m sure white St Louis has not changed much since I was there in the 90s.

    One of the major TV networks did some actual investigative journalism by sending two young men, one black and one white, with identical resumes, histories, clothing, and accents to look for jobs and housing in St Louis. The differences in how they were treated by prospective employers and landlords and by the general public was appalling and made the point that it’s a lot harder to exist in the world, especially in St Louis, as a black person.

    The local whites were quite upset by the TV show. Not because of what happened to the young men but because that awful network had shown dear old St Louis in a bad light. Obviously an eastern conspiracy to make them look bad!

  149. 149
    SFAW says:

    @kc:

    1) Welp, you keep addressing me

    Given that, can I forward some of the e-mails I get from Nigerian former Ministers who need help with moving some funds?

    2) I’ll get right on it.

    Then my work here is done. (Well, not really, but I think that’s supposed to be the usual response.) So, I’m off to wreak havoc on the forces of evil!

  150. 150
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Cacti: “Strong arm robbery” sounds so much better when it comes out of the mouth of Steve Doocey or Sean Hannity.

  151. 151
    SFAW says:

    @John Revolta:

    Christ. Sounds like if you dropped somebody named Shapiro or Patel into this story, the whole goddamned state would explode.

    Paging efgoldman

  152. 152
    kc says:

    It’s not entirely my fault that I’m confused here . . .

  153. 153
    gian says:

    @Nutella:

    the studies on who gets an interview with controlled identical resume’s but stereotypical “black” and “white” names are interesting. interesting in that they confirm what you probably already know.

    I wonder if Tyrone Power gets a screen test today. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrone_Power

  154. 154
    kc says:

    @SFAW:

    Ha. Look, I know I haven’t expressed myself well. It’s a bad idea to vent in the comments section of a blog. Stupid and self-indulgent. I’m not eloquent enough to explain my feelings in way that you won’t find fault with. I really wish I had just kept my mouth shut.

  155. 155
    different-church-lady says:

    @gian: That’s idiotic: there’s more than plenty of stone cold sober spurious reasoning here.

  156. 156
    SFAW says:

    @raven:

    What, no Thunderbird? Amateur.

  157. 157
    Cacti says:

    @Nutella:

    One of the major TV networks did some actual investigative journalism by sending two young men, one black and one white, with identical resumes, histories, clothing, and accents to look for jobs and housing in St Louis. The differences in how they were treated by prospective employers and landlords and by the general public was appalling and made the point that it’s a lot harder to exist in the world, especially in St Louis, as a black person.

    I remember that well. We actually studied it in my undergraduate Sociology class.

  158. 158
    SFAW says:

    @kc:
    Thanks. I’ll try to dial it back. (I almost wrote “too,” but that would imply that you were fire-breathing as much as I, which you weren’t.)

    G’night.

  159. 159
    SFAW says:

    @Nutella:

    Studies like that get done every few years in different places, unfortunately with similar results. I hope I live long enough to see those racist behaviors disappear, but I doubt it.

  160. 160
    kc says:

    @SFAW:

    Ah, I had it coming.

    ‘Night!

  161. 161
    Betty Cracker says:

    Balloon Juice lawyers, if there’s a trial, do you think the store video tape will be admissible as evidence? Or is it too soon to speculate on that?

  162. 162
    FlyingToaster says:

    @John Cole +0:
    @different-church-lady:

    Re: driving

    We have a phrase here, “Drive like a Masshole”. Which certainly encompasses the incompetent in front of John today.

    Around here, it’s going 50 up a 5 block residential stretch and screeching into the 4-way Stop at the top of the hill, which is brand new and freshly scarified because they’re fixing leaky gas pipes before they even try to repave the road, and causing me to back into my neighbor’s truck trying to avoid your SpeedRacer ass. While my daughter is screaming “He’s gonna hit us!”

    Or a river road is turned into a parking lot because a 13′ semi tries to go under a 9′ bridge (which was clearly marked at the fucking entrance ramps).

    Our family rule is that cursing is allowed while driving, and nowhere else. So my 6-year-old knows the F word and its appropriate application.

    Along with yelling out the window “Pick a color” when someone is texting during the green light in Watertown Square and ignoring the chorus of honks behind him.

    If it’s any consolation, however bad it may be in West by God Virginia, or the Commonwealth (Cod Save It), drivers are SO MUCH WORSE IN FLORIDA, it doesn’t even compare.

  163. 163
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @John Revolta:

    Michael Brown
    Officer Wilson
    Dorian Johnson
    Chief Jackson
    Capt. Johnson

    There’s also an attorney named Gray and a cousin named Davis in the mix, according to the WaPo piece kc linked at #153.

  164. 164
    dopey-o says:

    @raven:

    A box:

    Swisher Sweets Perfecto Natural Sweet
    4.2Read 93 ReviewsWrite a Review
    Item: R85495
    Promotion Code & Coupon Exclusion

    $39.99
    Qty:

    that’s a sizable box of cigars! Is that what Officer Wilson ‘saw’ in MB’s hand? I think someone would have stumbled across that box long before today.

    oh, wait: MB didn’t have cigars, Officer Wilson knew that MB was a suspect in an altercation at a convenience store, Office Wilson also was not aware of the convenience store. MB had stolen a box of cigars and was carrying it down the middle of Canfield Dr., and Officer Wilson stopped him for jaywalking and no one else saw the cigars. Which had just been taken in the robbery that the cops didn’t know about.

    But you see a black teenager with a sizable, $40 box of cigars, walking in plain daylight, and you as a white cop in Ferguson, does nothing about those cigars catch your attention?

    Oh, it wasn’t a whole BOX of Swisher Sweets, just one pack. Which Officer Wilson noticed from 20′ away, because BM had just stolen them, was making his getaway, but was too stupid to put the stolen smokes in his pocket?

    And while we’re discussing Schroedinger’s Cigar Box – don’t look or they will vanish! – can anyone explain the lack of a bullet hole in the police car? And the lack of gunpowder residue? Oh, no, Officer Wilson stuck his right hand out of the driver’s side window, putting the gun within reach of the suspect? who was wrestling with him, so of course you want to make sure that the suspect has a fair shot at taking your weapon away from you… so no residue inside the car!

    I know there’s a lie in there, somewhere. I just can’t put my finger on it….

  165. 165
    Betty Cracker says:

    @FlyingToaster: Nah. I lived in Boston for several years and have otherwise lived in Florida. I’ve driven in most major cities in America. Boston drivers are the worst. Worse even than NYC, in my opinion. Granted, we’ve got confused old people, but they aren’t trying to kill anyone. Y’all have malicious pricks to whom “merge” is an invitation to a paint-scraping game of chicken.

  166. 166
    SFAW says:

    @FlyingToaster:

    Or a river road is turned into a parking lot because a 13′ semi tries to go under a 9′ bridge (which was clearly marked at the fucking entrance ramps).

    Must be Mem Drive going under Mass Ave, because I can’t believe there are TWO places like that in the Commonwealth.

    Couple of my frat brothers got half-decent stereos from helping a truck driver load stuff back onto his truck there. After the top of his truck got torn off). No, they weren’t “five-finger discounts” – the truck driver gave the equipment to them as a way of thanking them.

  167. 167
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Only WaPo was supposed to be italicized. Hope my leaving an open tag didn’t screw things up for anyone else.

  168. 168
    SFAW says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Boston drivers are the worst. Worse even than NYC, in my opinion

    Grew up near NYC, was always nervous – as a teenager – about driving there. Then I came to Boston, and realized how good I had had it in NYC.

    One of the things I noticed early on was that in NYC, drivers yielded to pedestrians in crosswalks. In Boston, the drivers try to run them down.

  169. 169
    SFAW says:

    @dopey-o:
    Nicely done.

  170. 170
    Kay says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):

    Well, it’s what the defense would do. Keep every option open.

    I’m not naive about it. It’s adversarial and cops and prosecutors are on a “side” so I expect that, adversarial, etc. but THIS bothers me because of course we’re talking about possible prosecution of someone on their “side” so the shifting facts, order of presentation of facts and A, B and C possible legal justifications for the shooting is worrisome.
    I felt the same way when I read Zimmerman’s interview with police. He was ticking off the elements of self defense, 1,2,3, in order.
    “I was in fear for my life” and then it went from there.

  171. 171
    FlyingToaster says:

    SFAW: Across the Charles on Storrow. This was the third one yesterday.

    UHub actually has a Storrowed tag.

  172. 172
    SFAW says:

    @FlyingToaster:

    Oy. Plus, there’s the Western Avenue area. One of the unintended benefits of global warming is that those roads – or at least the underpasses — will be underwater, so trucks will be forced to find alternate routes. Interesting to see if the storm pumps in the Ted and the rest of the Dig will be able to keep up with the sea level rise.

    ETA: Thanks for the “Storrowed” link. The headlines from adamg are wicked pissah funny.

  173. 173
    ruemara says:

    Some of you guys. Look, even if Mike Brown stole a truckload of cigarillos, it does not justify his shooting death. Period. For FUCK’S sake, a wealthy white kid could steal alcohol & kill a family of 4, wound his friends and get off because he’s affluent. There is a massive disparity of justice if you can feel that your defense of Mike Brown not being killed in a state of surrender is now making you a “chump”, because he could be a kid who stole cigarillos. That’s insane. How many damned celebrities and white teens shoplifted more than that and didn’t go out in a hail of bullets? The response to protests in Ferguson was more military and more over the top than the response to the Tsarnaev brothers in Boston. This attempt to craft the “Thug” excuse is dirty, racist and frankly, only shocking in it’s clumsiness.

  174. 174
    SFAW says:

    @ruemara

    and get off because he’s affluent.

    Hey, the “affluenza” defense has worked before, so it must be legit, right?

    only shocking in it’s clumsiness.

    Well, in fairness to the Ferguson PD, they’ve gotten away with shit like that (although maybe not killing an unarmed black) before, so they haven’t needed to work on having a ready-made “justification.” I bet the next time something like this happens, now that they have some practice/experience, they’ll have their cover story worked out well in advance.

  175. 175
    FlyingToaster says:

    @Betty Cracker: I’ve had worse luck on both sides of America’s penis, thanks. My mom lives near Fort Myers and the “stop in the middle of the intersection because I dropped my pills” behavior really gets to me. And the jackasses in Fort Lauderdale where my inlaws live — well, don’t get me started.

    Y’all have malicious pricks to whom “merge” is an invitation to a paint-scraping game of chicken.

    Oh, you just encountered the amateurs. The Quebecois truck drivers will just ram you. Or the bridge stanchions, as they did to the lower deck of I-93, part of the reason for the Zakim Bridge being built.

  176. 176
    SFAW says:

    @ruemara:

    The response to protests in Ferguson was more military and more over the top than the response to the Tsarnaev brothers in Boston.

    Well, it’s not as if the Tsarnaevs
    A) Stole a box of cigarillos
    B) Were/are black

  177. 177
    ruemara says:

    @SFAW: My mistake. I know I’ve been caught going outside and breathing while black before. I’m trying to quit.

  178. 178
    FlyingToaster says:

    @SFAW:

    One of the unintended benefits of global warming is that those roads – or at least the underpasses — will be underwater, so trucks will be forced to find alternate routes.

    They already are, sometimes. I’ve decided to back out of entering Storrow when I see 18″ of water on the road at Everett Street in Allston. The Fellsway/28 N underpass in Somerville (under Mystic Ave and 93) floods every time there’s a flash flood warning; you get to go the long way around by Sullivan Square instead.

  179. 179
    kc says:

    @ruemara:

    Ruemara, you’re right.

  180. 180
    Groucho48 says:

    You know, if I were a conspiracy theory kind of guy, I’d wonder if the Ferguson and County police are acting the way they are to deliberately fan the flames in Ferguson, just so it would be easier to get a change of venue. To a mainly white suburb, because, we all know, whites are the only objective and unbiased race.

  181. 181
    SFAW says:

    @ruemara:

    I’m trying to quit.

    Which – breathing, or being outside, or being black?

    Whichever one you choose: “Good luck with that.”

  182. 182
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Betty Cracker: I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on the Internet (or TV, for that matter) but whether or not it’s admissible at trial is irrelevant. It’s out there, in the court of public opinion, poisoning the potential jury pool, which was the intent. It sets up the inevitable “well, he’s guilty of SOMETHING, so it was a righteous shoot” line that we’ll see from the usual fascist suspects of the media.

  183. 183
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @SFAW:

    In Boston, the drivers try to run them down.

    There are points to be had!

  184. 184
    goblue72 says:

    @Snowwy: I agree – burn it to the ground. I suggested as much the day before and was chastised for over-reacting.

    This is all going to unroll by the script. And the script is white people will again bear no burden or responsibility. The pigs will get off – maybe at worst some suspended leave – with pay. They will get to keep their pensions. They will do no jail time. The pigs will continue on as if nothing has happened.

    And black bodies will continue to get thrown into the pyre like so much cordwood.

    At a certain point, the only sane response is insurrection.

  185. 185
  186. 186
    KS in MA says:

    @rikyrah:

    This.

  187. 187
    goblue72 says:

    @FlyingToaster: Just pull off and have a beer at the Model Cafe till it clears out.

  188. 188
    goblue72 says:

    @Tommy: Cocksuckers. (you’ll get the joke after you’ve made it through a few episodes)

  189. 189
    goblue72 says:

    @Betty Cracker: Your ability to fall into knee-jerk defensive posture whenever someone points out that white people as a class have a whole-sale problem with racism that extends over the vast majority of the white population just astounds.

    You really do want to live up to your nym.

  190. 190
    goblue72 says:

    @Comrade Luke: Preach it.

  191. 191
    goblue72 says:

    @lamh36: Please don’t go. We need folks to keep pointing out the double standard. And that some folks around here get far too defensive about criticisms that white society in America is deeply embedded with racism – actual, institutional, and structural – at all levels and in all corners, and in the majority of white society.

  192. 192
    Betty Cracker says:

    @goblue72: That’s a load of bullshit. I said the article is lazy and crappy because the author talked to less than a dozen people eating at some strip mall and extrapolated their stupid racist attitudes out in general on a city of millions of people.

    You’re the jackass who was advocating random assassination of police officers, which is not only insane but would result in the deaths of god knows how many additional innocent people. So shove your self-righteous lecture right up your ass, you fucking lunatic.

  193. 193
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Yatsuno:

    stop doing the racists’ work for them

    Somehow I don’t think that’s what’s going on here.

  194. 194
    goblue72 says:

    @Betty Cracker: If you actually think that the majority of white St. Louis residents aren’t as racist as those folks she interviewed, you are far more naive than I imagined.

    I’m sorry, but you need to wake the heck up. How white exactly is the town in Florida you live in?

  195. 195
    goblue72 says:

    @Betty Cracker: And yes, there are a fair number of pigs in this country that deserve exactly the kind of “justice” that has been administered to countless black folks across this country.

    http://www.motherjones.com/pol.....-black-men

    In Oakland, CA alone, between 2004 and 2008, 37 African-Americans were killed by pigs. Of those 37 killings, 40 percent of the victims were unarmed.

  196. 196
    Kerry Reid says:

    If Brown wanted to be taken alive, he should have shot a Congresswoman point-blank in the head.

  197. 197
    Groucho48 says:

    Another thing occurred to me. What is the Ferguson police policy for firing a weapon on a residential street? There’s a reasonable chance of innocent bystanders being hit.

    Maybe, for the Ferguson police, there ARE no innocent bystanders?

  198. 198
  199. 199
    xenos says:

    @Original Lee:

    I thought the timeline had Brown putting the container of cigars on the counter and leaving without them, so it can’t be theft, can it?

    The pictures tell the story of a minor who was carded, was refused the tobacco product, got angry, grabbed the cigars, stormed out, stormed back, returned the cigars, stormed back. Basically a teenage temper tantrum, with a few misdemeanors in the process.

    I had a few friends when I was a teenager get drunk or stoned and get trouble with the 7-11 for antisocial and criminal behaviour. A couple of them are republicans now (proving moral depravity can be unreformable). I have 15 year old son who is perfectly capable of this level of stupidity.

    But this is just gasoline on the fire of white smugness. Murderous cop is going to walk, I predict.

  200. 200
    rachel says:

    @xenos: I’ve only seen video up to the time the man with the cigars leaves. Is there a longer version that shows him coming back?

  201. 201
    Original Lee says:

    @xenos: Thanks. I thought I had seen something like that. The version of the clip of making the rounds on FB looks as if it had been edited to delete all but the must damning bits.

    And the Yahoo! news feed is written as if rioting and looting engulfed the city all night last night.

  202. 202
    FlyingToaster says:

    @goblue72: Heh. Wrong end of Everett; I was trying to make the left on the Soldiers Field outbound to go home to H2OTown. I just went back to Western Ave and took the Arsenal Bridge.

  203. 203
    Max says:

    @efgoldman: swisher sweets are for making blunts. You don’t think he was going to smoke them, do you?

  204. 204
    drkrick says:

    @efgoldman:

    Well, I always thought mere possession of Swisher Sweets (ugh!) was a capital offense, even if he bought them.

    I always thought the offense was its own punishment.

  205. 205
    drkrick says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Balloon Juice lawyers, if there’s a trial, do you think the store video tape will be admissible as evidence? Or is it too soon to speculate on that?

    INAL, but unlikely. It’s not relevant to the cop’s actions. Which is why it was so important to get it in front of the jury pool yesterday in “response” to an imaginary FOIA request.

  206. 206
    John N says:

    I’m a white man, but I think we liberal democrats should start demanding: no more white male candidates for office. I won’t vote for any more white men! None of this will EVER even begin to change until white men are no longer running the show.

Comments are closed.