The Song Remains the Same



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133 replies
  1. 1
    Schlemizel says:

    Thats not fair John! Back in the bad old days the cops had to wait until the black of night, often had to don white robes and hunt people down on dark country roads before they could kill them. Now they can just gun them down & broad daylight & claim self-defense.

  2. 2
    debbie says:

    Why are cops wearing camo in an urban area?

  3. 3
    Elizabelle says:

    Has this made the nightly network news yet, with an emphasis on other than looting?

    Not asking rhetorically; I honestly don’t watch the shows.

    What bits I’ve caught, they and PBS are frenetically following the Middle East, where we have even less influence and power than in our own states.

    Why is that? Distraction?

  4. 4
    Suffern ACE says:

    @debbie: because it makes them look soldiery and “we mean businessy”. Although camo also interferes with the eye’s ability to target even in the city. Although in this case “we mean business” is the message.

  5. 5
    Cervantes says:

    @debbie: It’s not an urban area. It’s enemy territory.

  6. 6
    raven says:

    Who gives a shit what color pants they are wearing? jesus

  7. 7
    danielx says:

    The past is never dead. It’s not even past.

    William Faulkner knew whereof he spoke.

  8. 8
    skerry says:

    “The murder of my son has shown me that what happens to any of us… had better be the business of all of us.” ~ Mamie Till, 1955

  9. 9
    debbie says:


    Because it gives this sorry episode the aura of a military action. Maybe you’re fine with that. I’m not.

  10. 10
    raven says:

    @debbie: Oh,so if they had plain colored pants on you’d feel different?

  11. 11
    raven says:

    Oh look, they have knee pads on too!

  12. 12
  13. 13
    NorthLeft12 says:

    Yeah, the camo is weird, but can someone answer why they are pointing their assault rifles at this guy?

    His man purse looks rather suspicious.

  14. 14
    Cervantes says:

    @raven: I couldn’t care less if they had kilts on.

    The outfits they are wearing are not the illness; but they are a symptom that helps in diagnosis.

  15. 15
    Elizabelle says:

    I would like to know if your average policeman gets his news from Fox News Channel and its like.

    The guy who shot the 19-year old woman on his porch, through the door, he was living in terror. So much that he couldn’t peek out and see the “threat” facing him. Scary as Renisha was.

    Fox News appeals to the fear-driven, and probably those comforted by a hierarchy, whether it makes any sense or not.

    That channel is poisoning our environment, social, political, even physical (last refuge of climate deniers and fracking enthusiasts).

    They’re polarizing into us and them, and then screaming at Obama or the nearest Democrat as the real polarizer.

    If you take Fox out of the equation, you can more easily find points of agreement with its likely viewing base.

  16. 16
    debbie says:


    I see it as an implicit added threat, much like seeing a tank roll down High Street at Ohio State the morning after Kent State.

  17. 17
    Elizabelle says:


    Eric the wonder cat is yours? Very glad he is on the mend.

  18. 18
    Cervantes says:


    why they are pointing their assault rifles at this guy?

    Well, if the top photo is any indication, he’s going to be a pain-in-the-neck civil rights leader and congressman.

  19. 19
    Suffern ACE says:

    @NorthLeft12: yes. He could have a Weapon in that bag. Of course if he didn’t have the bag, he could have it under his cap. Don’t you think it’s suspicious that a young man would be wearing a cap?

  20. 20
    seabe says:

    This is Amerikkka, John. Thank gosh my generation doesn’t look to cable media for information.

  21. 21
    rikyrah says:

    Man films local officers’ attempt to intimidate him under false pretences

    by Staff | @KMOV

    Posted on March 12, 2014 at 6:55 PM

    Updated Wednesday, Mar 12 at 7:00 PM

    (KMOV) – A north St. Louis man claims he was unfairly handcuffed and detained by St. Louis Metropolitan Police and has the video to prove it.

    On Monday Terry Robinson, 21, said officers saw him outside in the Blair neighborhood, handcuffed him and pretended to drive back to the police station. Robinson caught the conversation inside the police cruiser on his cell phone.

    Robinson has been arrested before and is currently on probation. He said he promised his mother that, if she got him a good lawyer, he would stay out of trouble.

    He is reportedly back in school and working to turn his life around. If he gets in trouble again, he faces at least nine years in prison.

    He said for weeks, two officers have been harassing him, claiming they want him to give up a name of anyone they can plant a gun on or else they’ll arrest him.

  22. 22
    Schlemizel says:

    What an odd thing to decide to argue about. I thought the point was clear & the all black ninja look sends the same message, paramilitary operations. Would they still be thugs in navy blue? Sure but the added visual of cammo hardens the stereotype in both the populace and in the minds of the cops.

  23. 23
    raven says:

    @Schlemizel: whatever

  24. 24
    Schlemizel says:

    @Suffern ACE:
    Its a Cabala’s hat! Hunting & fishing = guns!!

  25. 25
    rea says:

    @debbie: “Why are cops wearing camo in an urban area?”

    To make them more visible.

  26. 26
    Another Holocene Human (now with new computer) says:

    @raven: What happened to human being raven from last night? Caffeine deficiency? Sleep apnea?

  27. 27
    Schlemizel says:

    your in a mood this morning. Your response seemed out of character for you.

  28. 28
    MattF says:

    I expect the next wave of media reports will be about how ‘outside radicals’ are agitatin’ and gettin’ the natives all worked up. And that will be followed up by some horserace reports about how exasperated and concerned white folks are getting motivated to vote for Ted Cruz.

  29. 29
    Another Holocene Human (now with new computer) says:

    So much for yesterday’s claim that St. Louis police are “more professional”.

  30. 30
    rikyrah says:

    From Maddow Last Night:

    Anger in Ferguson follows record of racial disparity

    Rev. Al Sharpton, MSNBC host and president of the National Action Network, talks with Rachel Maddow about turning outrage over the shooting of Michael Brown into change to correct the evident racial disparity in how laws are enforced.

    Part of the report?

    She’s talking about a whistle blower in the St Louis County police depart. They had a “Lets have a black day”. A day where cops were to arrest as many black people as they could.

  31. 31
    raven says:

    @Another Holocene Human (now with new computer): Hey, I didn’t bring up the fucking color of their uniforms.

  32. 32
    Singing Truth to Power says:

    Insomnia. Way, way off topic, John Cole, but do you snore? Doze off during the day? Get up often in the night? You might consider talking with a doctor about a sleep study. I thought I was doomed to a lifetime of wretched sleep and deranged sleep patterns, but it turns out it was sleep apnea. Using a CPAP has really changed my life. I do sound like a commercial, but I cannot say what a difference it has made for me. Listening to the sound of my breathing with the mask on is like meditation, and I drop off right away and stay asleep. Check it out –

  33. 33
    big ole hound says:

    These wannabe soldiers have to put on the garb they got after 9/11 to protect us. If they were ever in a fair fight the camo pants would hide the poop and pee.

  34. 34
    Ben Cisco says:

    @Elizabelle: Faux isn’t the only problem – it’s now systemic across the media spectrum.

    NONE of the network “news” is worth watching.

    MSNBC is a wasteland prior to prime time (where “prime time” doesn’t include the Friday Lockup-a-thon).

    CNN has long since devolved into AAA ball for Faux callups.

    If you are watching news on TV, you are getting steeped in sh*t.

  35. 35
    Another Holocene Human (now with new computer) says:

    Some of my (white) Okie relations moved to MO when the oil dried up in OK. (Actually, they are Kansans, Saxon Kansans, who blew into OK when the oil was gushing.)

    I’m sorry, everyone.

    Yeah, they’re pretty much every bad thing you’d expect. Hell, one of my mom’s cousins used to beat his wife and she tried to hire a hitman to have him killed but it turns out she was talking to a cop. The rest of the family was all, yeah, shrug, he’s the sort of person who would make someone want to kill him.

    My uncle won’t visit my side of the family any more because he is deathly afraid of driving through a “bad” (those people) neighborhood (and refuses to take public transit) and my father is, well, not. Caused some friction. Ironically he [eta: my uncle] completely showed out once driving through what turned out to be more ethnic [white] Catholic than, ya know, blah people territory, it was Boston after all. Stoops! Walkups! Panic!!! (Uncle is also ethnic Catholic but you know being Saxon makes him better than those fucken Irish and Italians and … Lebanese.)

    [eta: got that from my mom, Germans are better than Irish, note I and my siblings are Irish and so is my Dad, mom is a piece of work, she really is]

  36. 36
    NotMax says:


    Curious about your thoughts on the mine resistant armored vehicles they’re deploying.

  37. 37
    Kay says:


    I think it does change their behavior. We have a MANN unit here (multi area narcotics task force) and they are consistently bad actors. They wear what is black military gear. Some of it is self-selecting, they are chosen from local police agencies county-wide but I do think it changes how they interact with people. They don’t do any talking. It’s all action and physical restraints. In my opinion, part of it is that their faces are covered. That’s a mistake. People read faces. They get an enormous amount of information there. It puts them on a different more distant level than the people in the houses they’re entering when we can’t see their faces.

    It spreads, too. We have an investigator for children services who was following them in these raids (which she shouldn’t be doing anyway- she’s not on the “cop team”, she’s supposed to be a social worker) and SHE started getting overly harsh. It made her less effective. She’s stopped going in with them, defense objected and they reeled her in, but it’s too late. The people she’s supposed to be “working with” (the parents who are involved in arrests or raids) don’t trust her at all anymore.

  38. 38
    Betty Cracker says:


    I couldn’t care less if they had kilts on.

    I say let’s give kilts a try. No one can call them wimpy — not if they’ve seen Braveheart! — and yet kilts might put wearers in less of a Rambo frame of mind. I’m kidding. Sort of.

  39. 39
    MattF says:

    @Ben Cisco: I agree. This started long ago when the Right declared war on the media and simultaneiously developed a strategy to take it over. It would be a good subject for current history– the documentation is all still out there.

  40. 40
    raven says:

    @NotMax: It depends on what color they are.

  41. 41
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Betty Cracker: Heh. I like it.

  42. 42
    terraformer says:

    I think the cops are being quite smart in wearing gas masks as part of their SOP.

    Particularly in light of the well known fact that people of color in Missouri neighborhoods have historically had ample stockpiles of mustard gas, even sarin.

  43. 43
    Chyron HR says:

    Jeez, JC, if you keep implying that African-Americans have “rights”, you won’t get any more black velvet paintings of Jerry Garcia.

  44. 44
    Cervantes says:


    I think it does change their behavior.

    Putting on such an outfit reflects a certain mind-set — and reinforces it.

  45. 45
    ChrisH says:

    If you wanted to make a movie about Russia invading the US, it looks like you could save a bundle by using Ferguson police action as stock footage for the invaders.

  46. 46
    rikyrah says:

    St. Louis Police Shoot Black Honor Student 25 Times

    by Aviva Shen
    Posted on May 30, 2013 at 11:45 am

    Protesters rallied in St. Louis, MO on Wednesday over the death of 25-year-old Cary Ball Jr, who was shot 25 times by police officers last month. Police say Ball refused to pull over for a traffic stop, eventually crashed into a parked car, and started running. According to police, Ball pointed a semi-automatic handgun at the officers, prompting them to open fire.

    Several witnesses who spoke to the family, however, say Ball threw his gun on the ground and was walking toward police with his hands up to surrender when he was shot. Some unverified reports say 7 of the 25 shots hit him in the back. Police say there was no surveillance video in the area to verify exactly what happened.

    Ball was an honor student with a 3.86 GPA, majoring in human services at Forest Park Community College, where he had been celebrated as an “emerging scholar.” According to family and friends, Ball was working to reform his life after being convicted of armed robbery when he was 17. His older brother, Carlos Ball, said Cary probably ran from the police because, as an ex-convict, it was illegal for him to possess a gun.

    The two officers have been placed on administrative leave as homicide detectives investigate the shooting, but this is hardly the first time questions have been raised over the St. Louis Police Department’s conduct. In February, a city cop was accused of choking a man in a wheelchair, who was then arrested immediately after testifying at the officer’s disciplinary hearing. A video showing a cop beating and pepper-spraying a man went viral in 2011, revealing that the cop had stayed on the force despite multiple lawsuits alleging brutality.

  47. 47
    C.V. Danes says:

    Looks like the new post-racial America look a lot like to old post-racial America…

  48. 48
    Chyron HR says:

    Also, stop using the word “militarized” to describe people marching around in camo fatigues carrying assault rifles. It gives law-and-order types a sad. :c

  49. 49
    Ben Cisco says:

    @MattF: Agreed. Of particular note should be their intent with regard to the media, turning it into agitprop whose main goal is to scare the sh*t out of White America.

    Same as it ever was…

  50. 50
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Chyron HR: You sure about that? I thought it gave them a hard-on.

  51. 51
    Kay says:


    Yeah, I agree. You’re familiar with “community policing”, I’m sure. The whole point is they engage and form relationships and de-escalate. They gain cooperation by gaining trust. It’s hugely important to them. They get to know all of the connections between people – you say a name and they rattle off ex-wives, step-fathers, prior arrests, old addresses. They can tell who might be a legit threat and who is not. I think it’s a real mistake to put them in a soldiers uniform. People know what that means, visually.

  52. 52
    Elizabelle says:

    Why can’t we bring community policing back? Didn’t W the lesser cut the funding for that?

    More expensive, maybe, but it’s worth it. You want cops who know their communities. And many of whom COME from their communities.

    You don’t want to see tactical cops with their faces behind masks policing a neighborhood. Military wannabes.

    Time out, people.

  53. 53
    Joe F says:

    Shitty Cops? that is an oxymoron, they are all bad to the core and though it is undeniable that minorities and poor people take the brunt of their fascism, the Police are a menace to all of society. I am white, live in a very affluent area and stay as far away from them as possible. They are the greatest threat to personal liberty in this nation and wield the power to take away a person’s freedom with reckless abandon. I seriously would trust the mob to exact justice and protect me than any police officer I know

  54. 54
    raven says:

    Tommy said he has a lot of stuff going on at work and will come back in a while.

  55. 55
    Elizabelle says:

    Community police are public servants. Monitor them so that they stay that way and PAY for them.

    Government can be good, when applied intelligently and effectively.

    Is what’s happening in Ferguson an offshoot of “we can’t afford to build or pay for anything!” meets “the US defense industry is the only jobs program worth funding, and here is some of its materiel”?

  56. 56
    Cervantes says:


    They don’t do any talking. It’s all action and physical restraints. In my opinion, part of it is that their faces are covered. That’s a mistake. People read faces. They get an enormous amount of information there.


    Plus, if there is a soul inside, or remnants thereof, eye-contact makes it more difficult to abuse someone. Avoiding eye-contact makes it a lot easier.

    It spreads, too. We have an investigator for children services who was following them in these raids (which she shouldn’t be doing anyway- she’s not on the “cop team”, she’s supposed to be a social worker) and SHE started getting overly harsh. It made her less effective. She’s stopped going in with them, defense objected and they reeled her in, but it’s too late. The people she’s supposed to be “working with” (the parents who are involved in arrests or raids) don’t trust her at all anymore.

    Not much different from journalists “embedded” with the military.

  57. 57
    Cervantes says:


    Could not agree more.

    Difficult to believe we even have to discuss it.

  58. 58
    Belafon says:

    @raven: The cops think it means something, which is why they are wearing it. Specifically, it means “we’re tough, like the military.” These guys are really showing they are a bunch of mental teenagers with big, dangerous toys.

    The camouflage has a meaning and you know it. I don’t see why you’re being so flippant about it

  59. 59
    Kay says:


    Not much different from journalists “embedded” with the military.

    Now THERE was a great idea! I think it’s ego, myself. “I’m so independent and fair-minded I won’t ever be co-opted!”

    The social worker is useless. She may as well quit and join the MANN unit. They tell her nothing. I don’t blame them.

  60. 60
    Elizabelle says:


    Please tell him he’s missed, and he better have a damn good excuse when he returns! In triplicate!

    I’m glad you are able to be in touch with him. Wunderbar.

    PS: OT: thought of you when I saw an article that the original Adrian Cronauer — Good Morning Viet Nam — went to UPenn law school, practiced law, and now resides in Troutville, VA, out Roanoke Way in gorgeous Southwest Virginia. (I could live down there. Maybe will, one of these days.)

    Did not know he was in the Old Dominion. He’s only 12 years older than Robin Williams was.

    Cronauer said he never interacted with Williams during the making of the film because the director didn’t want his traits to influence Williams’ own conception of the character. The two met after the making of the film, and later, in 1991, when Cronauer attended a birthday party for Williams with nearly 300 of his celebrity friends. Cronauer said that Williams “was always on,” doing a routine when anyone approached him.

    “The only time we ever saw him let his guard down was when he was playing with his little kids,” Cronauer said.

  61. 61
    Snarki, child of Loki says:


    If you wanted to make a movie about Russia invading the US, it looks like you could save a bundle by using Ferguson police action as stock footage for the invaders.


  62. 62
    John Cole +0 says:

    @Singing Truth to Power: I was diagnosed with sleep apnea about 10 years ago. I’ve had a CPAP ever since. Changed my life. According to the doctor, I have probably had it my whole life, because in the Army, I snored so loud I had to sleep in the tank sometimes, and not on top. I remember in undergrad waking up and my girlfriend at the time was sleeping on the couch because I was snoring so loud.

    At any rate, it looks super dorky, but getting a cpap mask is the best thing I ever did.

  63. 63
  64. 64
    'Niques says:


    Oh,so if they had plain colored pants on you’d feel different?

    I think if they had plain colored pants on, THEY’D feel differently.

  65. 65
    raven says:

    @Elizabelle: As far as Tommy, I think making the contact and him replying that he’ll be back is enough.

  66. 66
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Joe F:

    the Police are a menace to all of society.

    Wow. Just wow.

    I well remember the 2 cops who came after after I heard thieves rummaging around in my basement. Moments before I had stood before a closed door with barefeet and a baseball bat, then decided that was NOT a good idea. One went in while the other covered the windows, the door was now open, proving I had not imagined the noises. Question was, did they all get out? The one who went in was shaking like a leaf when he came out. I didn’t blame him in the least.

    I also remember the cops who pulled my dick out of the dirt when I confronted a drunk “stealing” my truck. “Yep,” he said, “I got my gun and it’s time to go.”

    Or the cops who showed up when there was, as far as they knew, an “active shooter” on my street (I had just watched him blow his brains out).

    And yeah, living where I lived I ran into my share of bad cops too. But people who speak like you do have the advantage of living in really nice safe places.

  67. 67
    rk says:

    Funny how they treated all the white thugs of open carry, Bumdy Ranch and the teen in Colarado carrying an assault rifle with kid gloves.

  68. 68
    raven says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Oh, WE all know the cops are all pigs and killers. Why do you have to be so flip about it? Just join the chorus.

  69. 69
  70. 70
    Cervantes says:

    @raven: Appreciating — and defending, and paying for — good police work is important.

    Whereas if there are systematic problems in a police force — the point of the two photographs at the top of the post — denying such problems is dangerous to your fellow Americans.

    So if you want to argue that the police in Ferguson are not as problematic as the police in Selma were, please make the argument.

  71. 71
    raven says:

    @Cervantes: citation please? Where did I argue that?

  72. 72
    Elizabelle says:


    Oh yeah. Not implying Tommy should be spanked for truancy.

    Is anyone having conversations at work/socially along the line of “way too many black kids getting shot these days. Why do you think that is?”

    Because people were talking about Robin Williams all over the place, and reflecting, and that’s an enormous tragedy.

    I am thinking I would be terrified if I had a black teenager in my family. (We do, in the extended family. They are girls.)

    I think of my nephews’ friends and worry about them getting shot for no good reason at all, and people wanting to assume they did something to deserve that. As people do, to reassure themselves that they are “safe” and the guilty are being kept at bay.

  73. 73
    Betty Cracker says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Co-signed. Yes, there are way too many shitty cops. But there are also cops who joined the force to help people and actually managed to hang onto their ideals. One of them is an occasional commenter here. Painting all cops with the “pig” brush is as stupid as making sweeping statements about any other diverse group of people.

  74. 74
    Elizabelle says:


    Those photos make me glad the FBI is looking into Ferguson.

    Which might be why wingnuts have been screaming for Eric Holder’s head for years.

    Fear of a black planet.

  75. 75
    raven says:

    @Cervantes: Just to refresh you:

    Shitty Cops? that is an oxymoron, they are all bad to the core and though it is undeniable that minorities and poor people take the brunt of their fascism, the Police are a menace to all of society.

  76. 76
    raven says:

    @Elizabelle: I just meant that I think I’ll leave the initial contact at that and not go into other messages to him.

  77. 77
    debbie says:


    “community policing”

    There were efforts to establish community policing when I was living in NYC back in the 1980s and early 1990s. But when Rudi took control, he ended that sissy behavior to focus more on the important things, like ridding the world of squeegee men.

  78. 78
    Joe F says:

    @John Cole +0: Amen to that, just diagnosed last year and it has been a life changing addition. After spending 20 years “sleeping” no more than 4-5 hours and getting up everyday at 4, I put the mask on and on the second day of use, I slept almost 11 hours and woke up at 10 ready to demolish the world. not the sexy look for sure, but it beats having bags under my eyes and yawning all day. I wont even take a nap without the thing and take it everywhere I travel. It is remarkable how easy it is to be compliant strapping a mask to my face. Best thing ever…

  79. 79
    gogol's wife says:


    Oh good. He wasn’t actually participating in that notorious thread, so I had some suspicion that his absence was unrelated.

  80. 80
    Cervantes says:

    @raven: I saw that comment and found it careless.

  81. 81
    Suffern ACE says:


    She’s talking about a whistle blower in the St Louis County police depart. They had a “Lets have a black day”. A day where cops were to arrest as many black people as they could.

    That explains why the FBI is investigating so early. Justice May have been monitoring for awhile.

  82. 82
    the Conster says:

    @gogol’s wife:

    What notorious thread? What happened to Tommy?

  83. 83
    Violet says:

    @raven: Thanks for checking in with him and letting us know.
    @gogol’s wife:
    Yeah, I thought the same. He’s been gone for periods of time before. I figured he could be busy at work or maybe taking a vacation or something. Or just a break from blogs.

  84. 84
    satby says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: My dad and all his brothers, all now deceased, were cops. And my father always said that people hate cops until they need one. then for a while they’re heros, then they’re hated again.
    I remember my uncle arrested his own cousins when they were part of a white mob harassing one of Dr King’s marches in Marquette Park; because they broke the law. That’s how my dad and his brothers were.
    My dad always was disgusted with the authoritarian yahoos that gave cops a bad name, he was proud to serve and protect, and I’m just glad he never lived to see this.

  85. 85
    raven says:

    @satby: That was the march that led MLK to say people from Mississippi needed to come to Chicago to learn how to hate.

  86. 86
    satby says:

    @Violet: Had people not actually named names in calling out CS, there was a high probability that he would have remained completely unaware of the whole kerfluffle.
    And I’m history’s greatest monster, because I thought CS was funny and nailed that.

  87. 87
    raven says:

    @the Conster: He’s ok, Corner Stone made fun of him and he went off the grid.

  88. 88
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @the Conster: Corner Stone wrote a post in Tommy’s “style.” Some people thought it was mean-spirited. Some didn’t.

  89. 89
    raven says:

    @satby: How do you know he is “aware” of it?

  90. 90
    raven says:

    @Gin & Tonic: It wasn’t the first time.

  91. 91
    Joe F says:

    @Betty Cracker: Perhaps I should clarify my statement. When I say Police, I mean to say as a collective and while there may be individuals who maintain their ideals, it is rare that these ideals prevail within a larger corrupt collective. I should mention that I am an attorney who once worked for a firm that represented both fire and police departments throughout the State of CT and saw firsthand what sort of behavior was tolerated and escaped reproach. Many of those who “maintained their ideals” also maintained their silence because of the repercussions. Having met even the most idealistic officers, there Blue Line still pervades almost every precinct I dealt with first hand, from the inner city to the posh suburbs. But, hey, it is just one opinion of someone who dealt with them as an advocate

  92. 92
    Violet says:

    @Elizabelle: I’m not that confident about the FBI doing much:

    Belmar said the FBI’s investigation would run “concurrent” to his — which came at the request of the Ferguson Police Department.

    “The Bureau will take a lot of the information that we have developed already, they’ll take that information, they may do their own interviews, they may look at the evidence themselves — it’s a parallel or a concurrent investigation,” said Belmar

    I read somewhere else that the FBI’s involvement wasn’t going to be as big as people thought it might be.

  93. 93
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Violet: For Pete’s sake, it’s a pseudonymous blog. People come and go. Nobody owes anyone an explanation about anything.

  94. 94
    raven says:

    @Gin & Tonic: And it’s none of your business if people want to look into it.

  95. 95
    satby says:

    @raven: It was. My uncle was a watch commander at the time, saw and then overheard his cousins spot him and basically tell their fellow assholes that they could act with impunity thinking they’d never get picked up. My uncle stationed cops nearby, pointed out his cousins, and told his cops that if anything started or the cousins stepped one foot out of line, they were to be arrested first. And they were. My dad was always very proud of that story.
    The cousins didn’t come to family wakes for years after (we’re Irish, so that’s a deep “disrespect” move).

    Of course, the American Nazi Party had their HQ in the same area. So there was hate aplenty in the air.

  96. 96
    satby says:

    @raven: I hope he isn’t, honestly. I wish everyone would quit worrying about it so he never becomes aware of it.

  97. 97
    Violet says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Why you getting upset with me about it?

  98. 98
    raven says:

    @satby: Sounds like a really good guy.

  99. 99
    raven says:

    @Violet: Yea, get upset with me.

  100. 100
    the Conster says:

    @raven: @Gin & Tonic:

    CS was being an asshole? IOW, it was a day ending in a “y”. Is there a regular commenter here that hasn’t had their time in the sun with CS? Tommy should feel welcome to the BJ club.

  101. 101
    pamelabrown53 says:

    @raven: Although, I’m not that frequent a commenter, I’m so pleased that you took the initiative and contacted Tommy. Glad he’ll be back. I love his kind and gentle comments. Very regreshing.

  102. 102
    satby says:

    @raven: They all were, in about the same way. But that was a another time. And I now know that kind of integrity is rare.

  103. 103
    Violet says:

    @raven: You did a nice thing by checking on him. Now we know he’s okay we can leave it at that. He’ll come back when he wants.

    I was gone for a few months from here last year and I think only one person noticed.

  104. 104
    raven says:

    @satby: It was the year I went in the Army, I lived in Villa Park in those days.

  105. 105
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Violet: Just a trigger, I guess. Not “upset” with either you or raven.

    Different people get different things from this community. Some like to share a lot of information. Me, I like the fact that one can reveal only that which one chooses to. “On the Internet, nobody knows you’re a dog.” Some people like to care about someone who’s been away; I choose to think that someone can be away without having to say why. Tomato, tomato.

  106. 106
    shortstop says:

    @Cervantes: @Kay: Yes and yes.

  107. 107
    pamelabrown53 says:

    @the Conster:

    Except the assholiness didn’t end with CS. A couple other commenters decided to join in the “fun”.

  108. 108
    AxelFoley says:


    Hey, I didn’t bring up the fucking color of their uniforms.

    No, but you lost your shit over it.

    Bottom line, why are these cops looking like they’re getting ready to deploy to Iraq or Afghanistan? It’s the further militarization of our police forces. Shit needs to end.

  109. 109
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    Scottish military units are famous for wearing kilts. You’ll need something a lot less macho — pink tutus, maybe?

  110. 110
    shortstop says:

    @Amir Khalid: Hey, now. Ballerinas are true athletes and if you don’t believe it, try pointe shoes for 30 seconds. I suggest overlong pajama pants with drawstrings as uniforms.

    ETA: No, they’ll trip and accidentally shoot people on the way down. I got nothing.

  111. 111
    raven says:

    @AxelFoley: You have no idea what me losing my shit over something is. I thought it was silly and I said so.

  112. 112
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Amir Khalid: When I was in NYC recently, I saw a group of kilt-wearing cops (I think) playing the bagpipes at the World Trade Center memorial site. It’s a good look for cops and doesn’t have the martial implications here that it does in the UK. I think pink tutus would just make them angrier. ;-)

  113. 113
    raven says:

    @Betty Cracker: @Betty Cracker:

    During World War I the 25 battalions of Black Watch fought mainly in France and Flanders, except for the 2nd Battalion which fought in Mesopotamia and Palestine, and the 10th Battalion which was in the Balkans. Only the 1st and 2nd battalions were regulars. A number of authors state that the regiment was given the nickname “Ladies from Hell” (“Die Damen aus der Hölle”) by German troops, allegedly on account of their kilts and fighting qualities,[4][5] although it is reported that no German sources to support the claim have been found. (Scottish troops wore kilts up until 1940).

  114. 114
    satby says:

    @Betty Cracker: Probably the Emerald Society. They play at a lot of police and fire memorials and funerals (my dad’s and his brothers too).

  115. 115
    NotMax says:

    @Amir Khalid

    Camo thongs?

  116. 116
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Joe F: Thanks for the clarification. When you said, “they are all bad to the core,” it sounded like you meant each and every cop.

  117. 117
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Then consider it a bit of self-policing. It appears to be coincidental that Tommy disappeared at about the time some of our commenters were being Mean Girls, but CS has definitely run one person off recently.

  118. 118
    Cervantes says:

    @raven: Did not say you had argued it. Seemed to me — and maybe others — that you may have been headed that way. Glad I was mistaken.

  119. 119
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Elizabelle: Fear is good for ratings. Sensation is good for ratings.

    Ratings rule.

  120. 120
    gogol's wife says:


    Right. CS never does anything just once. I think those who found it so hilarious hadn’t seen it done ad nauseam already.

  121. 121
    Cervantes says:

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:

    CS has definitely run one person off recently.

    If it’s what I saw (and it may well not be), then what Corner Stone did was ask pointed questions about what the other person had said. If you get a chance, let me know if I missed something. Thanks.

  122. 122
    Cervantes says:

    @gogol’s wife: While the parodies were good qua parodies, I agree that repetition did not improve them.

  123. 123
    shortstop says:

    @gogol’s wife: Because they were all newbies. ;)

  124. 124
    Origuy says:

    I go to the Pleasanton (CA) Highland Games every year and some of the local cops patrol the fairgrounds in kilts, in addition to the police pipe bands.

  125. 125
    Kay says:


    I feel like if they have to up the threat level of the uniform they should wonder why the police uniform isn’t sufficient to restore order. It should be enough. I don’t think the basic idea of proportionate force was created by lawyers. I think that’s a human “norm”, something people understand intuitively. Kids use it all the time. It’s part of their bizarre little group codes, unless there’s a breakdown, a bully or a strong creep they are following. They basically recite the norms; he hit first, we’re both the same size, she had a stick and I didn’t, it was two on one.

    They should worry that they feel they have to escalate. Why is that? Everyone knows what a ordinary police uniform means, just on sight. That alone should temper behavior.

  126. 126
    shortstop says:

    @Kay: Again, I wonder if it has to do with the “us vs. them” tribalism that is now so prevalent on the right. They don’t see us as citizens they’re serving and protecting; they see a good chunk of us as “others,” the enemy because of who they are. Part of successfully dehumanizing groups is first demonizing them, convincing yourself they’re an innate threat to you and yours because of who they are.

  127. 127
    gvg says:

    Uniforms do help from impressions. That is why people trying to help you stress dress for sucess for job interviews. Those military style uniforms are a bad move in general for police departments, and terrible for a tense situation such as Ferguson obviously was from the moment the news broke. IMO whoever is running that police department is incompetent. Those images made the news spread further faster again IMO.
    In the last 10 years I have seen some police departments going through the expense of changing back their brown soldiery type uniforms to blue. I think some departments have actually realized they shouldn’t be imitating soldiers to much. It really is a different job. It has it’s own heroism and right way to do things and shouldn’t be trying to borrow image from the military. It’s also nuts to assume the military can be a police force as Bush did going into Iraq.
    IMO this militarization started from the war on drugs. Too much money spent stupidly and the whole confiscation without trial or evidence has always struck me as theft/inevitable abuse of power. At some point I expect that to get established as unconstitutional but people are still too afraid of drugs to “notice”.

  128. 128
    BobS says:

    @Betty Cracker: @satby: There are plenty of mostly good cops — but there are just as many assholes who the mostly good cops will cover for when it’s ‘us vs. them’ and we’re the ‘them’.
    Then of course there’s the small problem that the police have always been there primarily to support the prevailing power structure against the ‘rabble’, e.g. black people, strikers, black people, antiwar protestors, black people, Occupy, black people, etc.

  129. 129
    moderateindy says:

    I know a crapload of cops. From Suburban, to small town Iowa, to more than a dozen Chicago cops. First, small towners tend to know the people they deal with, so it’s harder to be dicks. Suburban wise, I think it’s all about leadership from the top. If the people high up stress being public servants, it makes a huge difference. The truth is that in larger areas with more crime, it is much harder to stay focused on the fact that you are there to protect and serve. Realize that cops that are in higher crime areas end up dealing with the worst elements of society on an almost constant basis, and that ends up having an effect on their behavior over time. This is truly pernicious when it comes to big cities. I had a friend that was a truly good person. Open minded, good soul that believed in helping others. He was a paramedic that joined the Chicago PD, and within 2-3 years became an awful human being. Racist, hateful, close minded, and from what I could tell from the stories he proudly spewed, he revelled in acting like a bully. I have to believe that the problem with police forces in large urban areas, is so systemic, and inculcated that it is not fixable. The bad apples really do spoil the bunch. There’s no way to get rid of the entire police force, and the worst types of these people easily wear down the others because, even the folks that come in with a good attitiude are ground down by a combination of being around peers with bad attitudes, and the day to day negativity that being a cop, and dealing mostly with a criminal element brings to the table.

    As far as the theme from the actual post is concerned John Fogerty mat have said it best in the song “Wrote a Song For Everyone”………..
    Saw the people standing, 1000 years in chains,
    Somebody said it’s different now
    Look, it’s just the same
    Pharoah’s spin the message
    Round and Round the truth……
    Great Version by Mavis Staples and Jeff Tweedy of Wilco even if Mavis isn’t exactly dead accurate on the lyrics

  130. 130
    Betty Cracker says:

    @moderateindy: Probably everyone’s job affects them in one way or another (I can’t just read something without editing it, for example), but yeah, being a cop would have to do a number on your perception of people in general in profound ways. You’d have to be a strong person to retain your sense of humanity. Fortunately, there are people who do — I know a few of them.

  131. 131
    The Pale Scot says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    Kilts, if only, Parish of Dunkeld

    A fine song of Anarchy:

    Oh, what a parish, a terrible parish;
    Oh, what a parish is that o’ Dunkeld.
    They hangit their minister, droon’d their precentor,
    Dang doun the steeple and fuddled the bell.

    The steeple was doun but the kirk was still staunin’,
    They biggit a lum whaur the bell used to hang.
    A stell-pat they gat and they brewed Hielan’ whisky;
    On Sundays they drank it and ranted and sang.

    O, had you but seen how graceful it lookit,
    To see the crammed pews sae socially joined.
    MacDonald the piper stood up in the poopit,
    He made the pipes skirl out the music divine.

    Wi’ whiskey and beer they’d curse and they’d swear;
    They’d argue and fecht what ye daurna weel tell.
    Bout Geordie and Charlie they bothered fu’ rarely
    Wi’ whisky they’re worse than the devil himsel’.

    When the hairt-cheerin’ spirit had mounted their garret,
    Tae a ball on the green they a’ did adjourn.
    The maids wi’ coats kilted, they skippit and liltit,
    When tired they shook hands and then hame did return.

    If the kirks a’ owre Scotland held like social meetin’s
    Nae warnin’ ye’d need from a far-tinklin’ bell,
    For true love and friends wad draw ye thegither
    Far better than roarin’ the horrors o’ hell.

  132. 132
    J R in WV says:

    On our vacation trip to.from Arizona last winter, we ran into several police officers. On the way west we got our truck stuck in a drain in the middle of I-40. State trooper helped us out, was very polite and made things much safer as the tow truck had trouble with the mud, and our truck was at the limit of weight he could deal with.

    Coming home we rolled the F-350 on I-25 north of Taos NM on our way to visit friends in Colorado on the way home. There were at least 6 state police there, all were polite, concerned and helpful. One took me, our personal luggage and dogs back to town to the Vet, to get the dogs checked out after the roll-over.

    After buying a replacement truck in Colorado, we were heading east on I-70 when a deputy pulled us over in Kansas because he couldn’t see the temp license taped in the back window of the truck. Very pleasent, once he saw the temporary license, we talked about Ford SuperDuty trucks, he had one used on the family farm.

    After being home for several weeks, I had registered the truck and had a current license plate on it, but forgot to get the required safety inspection sticker. Senior State Police trooper pulled us over for no inspection sticker, but wrote the ticket so it would be dismissed when fixed. I got an inspection, went to the Magistrate, who took the receipt and told me to have a nice day. When I told the Magistrate how polite the Trooper was, she said he was one of the nicest police officers she worked with.

    Here are a whole passel of nice guys (and a woman) who were doing their job of serving and protecting. I’m not gonna say something stupid like all cops are good guys, some are snakes when out of the public eye. But in my time of serving on juries, being pulled over, etc. The cops I have dealt with have all been professional, polite, and as helpful as they were allowed to be.

    All that said, there is something bad wrong with the police around St Louis. Sounds like many of them need to do hard time for their crimes against the people who pay them.

  133. 133
    Bill Murray says:

    Kansas City is trying to be more of a community policing place

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