Drip, drip, drip

Someone other than Edward Snowden has leaked confidential documents to The Intercept’s Glenn Greenwald. A new article published on the site today by Jeremy Scahill and Ryan Devereaux provides details about the government’s terrorist screening database, which contains info on 680K people, 40% of whom allegedly have no ties to a known terrorist group.

The figures in the new report come from a secret document that provides information current as of August 2013, after Snowden had flown the coop. US officials confirmed to CNN that there’s a second leaker.

I know we’re supposed to express concern about (or vociferously defend) privacy infringement since this is a high-minded blog. But it’s more interesting to speculate about the identity and motivations of the new leaker.

Is it another whey-faced, 20-something college dropout with Ron Paul stickers on his Cube? When will the feds ferret out this latest dudebro hero so we can finally know the truth?

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282 replies
  1. 1
    BGinCHI says:

    680K!

    That’s roughly the population of Detroit.

    Coincidence?

  2. 2
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Is it another whey-faced, 20-something college dropout with Ron Paul stickers on his Cube?

    That alone should be a capital offense

  3. 3
    Kristin says:

    This posting is not sufficiently pure, Ms. Cracker. Shame on you.

  4. 4
    Faction says:

    “We tortured leaked some classified documents to some folks. We did some things that were contrary to our values. I understand why it happened…And it’s important for us not to feel too sanctimonious in retrospect about the tough job that those folks had. And a lot of those folks were working hard under enormous pressure and are real patriots.”

  5. 5
    LT says:

    The last two paragraphs of this post – is it just lazy trolling? (Of whom?) Is it Cesca-ism disguised as snark? I don’t get it.

    Because this…

    Someone other than Edward Snowden has leaked confidential documents to The Intercept’s Glenn Greenwald. A new article published on the site today by Jeremy Scahill and Ryan Devereaux provides details about the government’s terrorist screening database, which contains info on 680K people, 40% of whom allegedly have no ties to a known terrorist group.

    The figures in the new report come from a secret document that provides information current as of August 2013, after Snowden had flown the coop. US officials confirmed to CNN that there’s a second leaker.

    …is a solid, interesting, noteworthy post, worthy of Balloon Juice, or anywhere. (680,000? What the fuck? 280,000 with no terrorism link WTFF?) Otherwise – I don’t know. Is this kind of trolling *necessary? “Necessary” isn ‘t the right word: is the shitstorm thread it is guaranteed to engender what you actually want? If so – why?

  6. 6
    Betty Cracker says:

    @BGinCHI: According to the leaked document, here are the cities with the highest concentrations of names on the list: New York, Dearborn, Houston, San Diego and Chicago.

  7. 7
    BGinCHI says:

    @LT: Be the change you wish to see in the world.

  8. 8
    NobodySpecial says:

    @LT: I believe the reply you were trying for was ‘We already knew this, nothing to see here.’

  9. 9
    Betty Cracker says:

    @LT: I’ll never be your Amy Goodman. Sorry.

  10. 10
    BGinCHI says:

    @Betty Cracker: No…..way…..

    I can see Dearborn, but all the thugs we have and we are behind San Diego?

    Fuck that.

  11. 11
    askew says:

    Greenwald is throwing a massive tantrum because the government did an interview with the AP about this leak and it ended up scooping his site. And he is sure it is a sign that the government is out to get him and his site. What a nutjob.

  12. 12
    James E. Powell says:

    680K people, 40% of whom allegedly have no ties to a known terrorist group.

    But maybe they have ties to people who have ties to a known terrorist group. Or maybe ties to people who have ties to other people who have ties to a known terrorist group.

    Six degrees of separation meets the 1% doctrine.

  13. 13
    Corner Stone says:

    I love you B Crack, and I don’t care who knows it.

  14. 14
    gene108 says:

    I wonder how much harder it is for people to get government clearance now, because the people that approve this stuff must be really scare to approve a clearance for a potential snitch.

  15. 15
    Corner Stone says:

    here are the cities with the highest concentrations of names on the list: New York, Dearborn, Houston, San Diego and Chicago.

    ***GASPS***

  16. 16
    Corner Stone says:

    @Corner Stone: And Holy Shit but I’ll be in San Diego soon!
    If Nashville is anywhere on that list then I am fucked. Fucked, I say!

  17. 17
    Corner Stone says:

    @James E. Powell:

    But maybe they have ties to people who have ties to a known terrorist group.

    Or maybe just their car mechanic.

  18. 18
    BGinCHI says:

    @Corner Stone: Do NOT take your guitar case.

    ETA: or your antique sword umbrella.

  19. 19
    Violet says:

    Is it another whey-faced, 20-something college dropout with Ron Paul stickers on his Cube? When will the feds ferret out this latest dudebro hero so we can finally know the truth?

    Let’s imagine for a minute it’s a black guy with saggy pants and a police record. Would that change anything?

  20. 20
    LT says:

    @Betty Cracker: One Amy Goodman’s plenty.

    I’d be more appreciative of free-form, targetless, “Let’s please have another one of those threads!” trolling if it had some underlying point. John didn’t bring you here to be John – but fuck. This is lazy.

  21. 21
    ulee says:

    I love to hate on the whey-faced. And the gingers. And if they’re oldsters, all the better.

  22. 22
    maya says:

    Terrorist groups wear ties? Batik or paisley?

  23. 23
    Corner Stone says:

    @NobodySpecial: Sorry. But I have the patent on that for this site.
    Yawn. Known. Burger.

  24. 24
    BGinCHI says:

    @LT: Put the shovel down.

  25. 25
    Corner Stone says:

    @BGinCHI: How about my Speedo?

  26. 26
    LT says:

    @NobodySpecial:

    @LT: I believe the reply you were trying for was ‘We already knew this, nothing to see here.’

    But that’s why it’s confusing. Betty has largely left her inner Cesca in the dust. Then – this. Confusing.

  27. 27
    Corner Stone says:

    @LT: Honestly, I think you’ve missed this one. Please take a second look.

  28. 28
    BGinCHI says:

    @Corner Stone: Whole different kind of terrorism.

  29. 29
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @askew: Thou shalt not scoop Glenzilla. There is no higher commandment.

    Glenzilla screams “pay attention to me!” on a fucking 24/7 basis.

  30. 30
    Betty Cracker says:

    @LT: Your concern is duly noted, possibly even by government agencies!

  31. 31
    LT says:

    And Cesca and Josh Marshall today – wow. They seem to have lost all self-awareness.

  32. 32
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @maya: Regimental.

  33. 33
    BGinCHI says:

    Am I the only one around here who likes Scahill?

    He also has an attractive, closely shaven beard.

    Just being honest.

  34. 34

    I stopped reading it at

    more than 40 percent are described by the government as having “no recognized terrorist group affiliation.” That category—280,000 people—dwarfs the number of watchlisted people suspected of ties to al Qaeda, Hamas, and Hezbollah combined.

    ‘cuuuz, as the graph right below shows, al Qaeda, Hamas, and Hezbollah affiliated individuals aren’t really a big portion of the list. But, y’know, rhetoric is important if you’re editorializing.

    I’ll track down an actual journalistic source and read that.

  35. 35
    askew says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    @askew: Thou shall not scoop Glenzilla. There is no higher commandment.

    Glenzilla screams “pay attention to me!” on a fucking 24/7 basis.

    With that ego I knew he’d meltdown eventually but to be over something this silly is pretty funny.

  36. 36
    LT says:

    @Corner Stone: “Honestly, I think you’ve missed this one. Please take a second look.”

    Totally possible! And I took a third look before posting.

    Please note that this ain’t in a vacuum. Betty does have a histo4ry on this, although she has evolved away from Cescaish nonsense.

  37. 37
    Corner Stone says:

    Son.of.a.bitch. I’m going to be in Chicago in October.
    I am so done for.
    Damn you, Griftwald!!

  38. 38
    A Humble Lurker says:

    OT But can we have a thread on that thing with Steve King, two Dreamers, and Rand Paul running away from them as fast as he could without even finishing his burger? The whole video and conversation King has with the Dreamers is sad, infuriating and in its own way sadly, infuriatingly hilarious. It’s been mentioned in earlier threads but I kept expecting someone to give it its own thread.

  39. 39
    LT says:

    @Betty Cracker: Betty, I love ya – really, in an internet way – but do you really not know the proper use of “concern”?

  40. 40
    Corner Stone says:

    @BGinCHI: Indeed. Indeed.

  41. 41
    BGinCHI says:

    @LT: Mac or PC, which is better?

  42. 42

    Also, who the frak is naming these programs? “Hydra”? Try to sound less like a bond villain, CIA. Were “Banana” and “Us Weekly” taken? (inspiration drawn from my coffee table)

  43. 43
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @A Humble Lurker: Well, it was linked from comments last night.

    What more needs to be said about it other than Steve King and Rand Paul should both be flayed alive before their heads are placed on pikes?

  44. 44
    kc says:

    @LT:

    Okay, enough pearl-clutching.

  45. 45
    Heliopause says:

    Someone other than Edward Snowden has leaked confidential documents to The Intercept’s Glenn Greenwald.

    It’s funny when people who don’t like Greenwald give him credit for other people’s work.

  46. 46
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Major Major Major Major (formerly J.Ty): HYDRA was the organization Nick Fury opposed with SHIELD in the comic books in the 60’s.

    The military is big on using mythological references for various operations and devices. I used to use NESTOR crypto gear back in the early 80’s.

  47. 47
    Another Holocene Human (now with new computer) says:

    @askew: Well, Glen sure didn’t disappoint, I see. My days of underestimating him are coming to a middle.

  48. 48
    Mnemosyne says:

    Is it another whey-faced, 20-something college dropout with Ron Paul stickers on his Cube who gave his information to China and Russia?

    Fix’d. I still don’t get why you think it’s A-OK to give classified information to China and Russia as long as it’s about US government wrongdoing, but whatever floats your boat.

    And, yes, I take this leak much more seriously than Snowden’s because the leaker didn’t give classified information to China and Russia. I guess I’m just funny that way.

  49. 49
  50. 50
    Violet says:

    @BGinCHI:

    He also has an attractive, closely shaven beard.

    Is that a terrorist beard or a Real Murkin beard? How can we be sure?

  51. 51
    Corner Stone says:

    @Major Major Major Major (formerly J.Ty):

    (inspiration drawn from my coffee table)

    You have a coffee table and also a subscription to at least one news magazine?
    Elitist! One Percenter! Fie! Fie! Fiiiieeee!!!

  52. 52
    Kristin says:

    @askew: His reaction is priceless: “Fine, then. I’ll only give them 15 minutes to respond next time. Or I won’t ask for comments at all!” Because, we all know that’s how REAL journalism works.

  53. 53
    Dog On Porch says:

    I hope the day will come when Ron Wyden of Oregon concludes, “enough of this shadow government bullshit”, and finds the moral courage to break the law by speaking the truth about it to all Americans.

  54. 54
    Scotty says:

    Could the one’s with no ties be considered potential domestic terrorists?

  55. 55
    kc says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I still don’t get why you think it’s A-OK to give classified information to China and Russia

    Pretty sure NO ONE SAID THAT.

  56. 56
    Kropadope says:

    @Major Major Major Major (formerly J.Ty):

    Also, who the frak is naming these programs? “Hydra”? Try to sound less like a bond villain

    So, am I to understand that you are unfamiliar with Captain America?

  57. 57
    LT says:

    @askew: “Greenwald is throwing a massive tantrum because…”

    You’ve gotta stop stealing the opening line of every other Charles Johnson tweet.

  58. 58
    Another Holocene Human (now with new computer) says:

    @gene108: Yeah right. The snitches are all the sort of people who waltz into clearances–upper middle class white males with the right accent and the right friends. This is how the CIA operates and why they’re so incompetent and ineffective. FBI also, too, for that matter, when it comes to terrorism surveillance and organized crime. Although FBI will also take down on their luck, upper middle class aspirant lower middle class whites with “ethnic” (Roman Catholic) families, as opposed to the WASPy CIA culture.

  59. 59
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Dog On Porch: Hmmm…he’s not up for reelection this year, perhaps next time around…

  60. 60
    Kristin says:

    @LT: Man. You are really one note.

  61. 61
    Corner Stone says:

    @askew:

    Greenwald is throwing a massive tantrum because the government did an interview with the AP about this leak and it ended up scooping his site.

    Links, please?

  62. 62
    LT says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Is it another whey-faced, 20-something college dropout with Ron Paul stickers on his Cube who gave his information to China and Russia?

    Awww – your first turnip. Ain’t gardens grand?

  63. 63
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @BGinCHI: I have no problems with Scahill. I have no opinion on his beard.

  64. 64
    Kristin says:

    @Another Holocene Human (now with new computer): I think that the clearances that are given out to contractors and other such things going on are a big issue here demonstrating some serious incompetence. It gets lost in the muck sometimes, though.

  65. 65
    burnspbesq says:

    @BGinCHI:

    all the thugs we have and we are behind San Diego?

    It’s not about thugs, per se. Most of your thugs are African-American or Hispanic and therefore not a security threat like swarthy men with vaguely Middle-Eastern sounding names.

  66. 66
    Corner Stone says:

    @Kristin:

    Fine, then. I’ll only give them 15 minutes to respond next time. Or I won’t ask for comments at all!

    Link, please?

  67. 67
    SatanicPanic says:

    Obama could put an end to this all by prosecuting Bush

  68. 68
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Kristin: This is my primary concern, too. because the contractors have, shall we say, conflicting motivations here. The “you must show growth in profits in a continuous upward trend” meme conflicts with the “spend what you must to make things secure” meme.

    Corners are cut to keep the hookers and booze flowing.

  69. 69
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Mnemosyne:And I don’t get why you think I think it’s A-OK to give classified information to China and Russia as long as it’s about US government wrongdoing. I’m pretty sure I’ve never said that.

  70. 70

    @Kropadope: @Villago Delenda Est: There’s a reason these sorts of names are associated with eeeeevil, is all I’m saying. It’d behoove the intelligence community to stay away from things that are bad guys in comic books and movies and really just anything Ian Fleming wrote. (Yes, I know he was a spy.)

  71. 71
    LT says:

    @Kristin: The fact that the government is falling all over itself to apologize and say it was an accident makes you funny.

    @Corner Stone: According to John Cook, gov regretting this already:

    After the AP story ran, The Intercept requested a conference call with the National Counterterrorism Center. A source with knowledge of the call said that the government agency admitted having fed the story to the AP, but didn’t think the reporter would publish before The Intercept did. “That was our bad,” the official said.

    Asked by The Intercept editor John Cook if it was the government’s policy to feed one outlet’s scoop to a friendlier outlet, a silence ensued, followed by the explanation: “We had invested some quality time with Eileen,” referring to AP reporter Eileen Sullivan, who the official added had been out to visit the NCTC.

    “After seeing you had the docs, and the fact we had been working with Eileen, we did feel compelled to give her a heads up,” the official said, according to the source. “We thought she would publish after you.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....51757.html

  72. 72
    Corner Stone says:

    @BGinCHI:

    Am I the only one around here who likes Scahill?

    I happen to think he’s just dreamy.
    Not a big fan of the beard, though. It kind of itches after a bit.

  73. 73
  74. 74
    BGinCHI says:

    Meanwhile another American Patriot bites the dust.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/l.....judge-guns

  75. 75
    burnspbesq says:

    @BGinCHI:

    Mac or PC, which is better?

    Linux. And the Grateful Dead always sucked.

  76. 76

    Thought this was a weird defense of Rand Paul’s dual positions on aid to Israel.

    Glenn Greenwald @ggreenwald · 3h

    Here, @TheDemocrats seem to be attacking Rand Paul for the crime of once advocating cuts in aid to Israel

  77. 77
    scav says:

    @Betty Cracker: Dearborn is rather a tell. Could just be immigrants, general, but with Dearborn? map (sorry 2000 was easiest to link)

  78. 78
  79. 79
  80. 80
    nellcote says:

    Is it another whey-faced, 20-something college dropout with Ron Paul stickers on his Cube? When will the feds ferret out this latest dudebro hero so we can finally know the truth?

    What if it’s the NSA leaking disinformation to the glennbots? What if they’re leaking low level stuff to set GG up for a major embarassing fake “exclusive”? What’s the Intercept’s comparable to Drudge’s sirens?

    The Intercept got intercepted! LOL

  81. 81
    Corner Stone says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Corners are cut to keep the hookers and booze flowing.

    Screw you, clown!

  82. 82
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @LT:

    “We thought she would publish after you.”

    We thought.

    We thought.

    Rule number one: Once the information is out of your mouth, it is no longer under your control. It’s gone. It’s on CNN, it’s on Reddit, it’s in Playboy, it’s on Facebook, it’s in your grandma’s back yard with the gardenias.

  83. 83
    Kristin says:

    @LT: Whatever. You are super boring.

  84. 84
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Then why link this new leaker with Snowden? Again, the problem I have with Snowden is not that he leaked, it’s that he gave classified information to China and Russia.

    The only person trying to discredit this leaker by associating him with Snowden’s actions is, well, you.

  85. 85
    BGinCHI says:

    @burnspbesq: Agreed.

    Also Derek Jeter is the greatest player who ever lived.

  86. 86
    Corner Stone says:

    @Kristin: Thanks for the link. I didn’t know if you had made it up. That’s pretty common around here when people are in pure bloodlust bashing mode of the Griftwald Beast.
    But your paraphrase leaves quite a bit to be desired, if you’ll be honest with yourself.

  87. 87
    LT says:

    @Kristin:

    hatever. You are super boring.

    John Cole: I want a prize for this.

  88. 88
    Kristin says:

    @Corner Stone: Of course that’s what you’d say.

    Get a grip. Seriously.

  89. 89
    Betty Cracker says:

    @nellcote: That would be pretty damn clever. The way the journalistic herd runs, it would probably put the kibosh on NSA stories for a generation.

  90. 90
    Mnemosyne says:

    @kc:

    Then why associate this leaker with Snowden, who did give classified information to China and Russia?

  91. 91
    LT says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    “We thought she would publish after you.”

    Yeah but that’s called “a lie.” Straight up, yo.

  92. 92
    Cacti says:

    Of the 680,000 people caught up in the government’s Terrorist Screening Database—a watchlist of “known or suspected terrorists” that is shared with local law enforcement agencies, private contractors, and foreign governments—more than 40 percent are described by the government as having “no recognized terrorist group affiliation.” That category—280,000 people—dwarfs the number of watchlisted people suspected of ties to al Qaeda, Hamas, and Hezbollah combined.

    So in contrast, a mere 400,000 do have a recognized affiliation?

  93. 93
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @LT: You know, Cole could send you a no-prize, the way Stan Lee sent no-prizes to Marvel fans back in the 60’s.

  94. 94
    burnspbesq says:

    @BGinCHI:

    Derek Jeter is small-time. Jim Brown is the greatest player who ever lived, in two different sports.

  95. 95
    Heliopause says:

    @Corner Stone:

    They’re still crediting Greenwald for other people’s work. It’s editor John Cook who threatened a 30 minute limit.

    Greenwald seems to be a kind of supervillain puppetmaster in some people’s minds. Odd.

  96. 96
    Violet says:

    @Kristin: @Villago Delenda Est: Quite a few years ago now a friend of mine was dating a woman from Iran. She was in the US legally but had family here and Iran. He worked for a consulting company was frequently assigned to jobs with government agencies. He was told by his employer, the consulting company, that if he continued dating her his ability to get higher security clearances would be compromised and he would not be able to advance in the company.

    So yeah, there are multiple competing allegiances for consultants. They are supposed to do their job for the government agency but they are also mindful of their career path at the consulting company, which may or may not include long term jobs for the government.

  97. 97
    SatanicPanic says:

    @BGinCHI: Of all sports or just baseball? Either is plausible

  98. 98
    Kristin says:

    @LT: Why should you get a prize for being attention-seeking and repetitive?

  99. 99
    Corner Stone says:

    @Kristin: I have one, thanks. It’s not hard to actually “quote” what The Griftwald said when he was “totes fucking freaking out!!!”
    Just copy it instead of changing four fucking words you stupid fucking loser.

  100. 100
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Cacti:

    So in contrast, a mere 400,000 do have a recognized affiliation?

    Given this list was created back during the days of the deserting coward, registration as a Democrat is probably more than enough evidence of improper affiliation.

  101. 101
    Another Holocene Human (now with new computer) says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: And just when he had another fawning NYT lifestyle piece about him with photos coming out.

  102. 102
    Corner Stone says:

    @Kristin: Here, this is what it would have taken on your part:
    OMG! The Griftwald is totes fucking freakin’ out on this shit, dawg! Lookie at this pathetic freak out, y’all!!!
    “Give them 15 minutes before publication to comment from now on, or stop asking them for comment altogether.”

    There. How’s that?

  103. 103
    Another Holocene Human (now with new computer) says:

    @LT: Marshall lives for clickbait, he’s nothing but a liberal Drudge at this point who needs eyeballs. Dunno what Cesca’s excuse is.

    I quit TPM eons ago when it got into misleading headlines and constant fear-mongering (and they fucked up the comments … twice)

  104. 104
    Kristin says:

    @Corner Stone: No one said “totes fucking freaking out!!!” You fabricated that from whole cloth, which is funny in the context of you harassing me over paraphrasing that was pretty spot on.

    Also, relax. Is Greenwald really worth embarrassing yourself in this way? Sad, really.

  105. 105
    Kristin says:

    @Corner Stone: You are insane. Seek help.

  106. 106
    Another Holocene Human (now with new computer) says:

    @A Humble Lurker: Yes. This. There was a great thread earlier today on RawStory if you can brave their commentariat. (more trolls and the commenting system is annoying)

  107. 107
    Keith G says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Then why link this new leaker with Snowden? Again, the problem I have with Snowden is not that he leaked, it’s that he gave classified information to China and Russia.

    Good golly, I guess I missed the article explaining that Snowden did this. Where was this reported?

  108. 108
    Corner Stone says:

    @Kristin: Speaking of embarrassing yourself. This is what you want to use quotes on?

    @askew: His reaction is priceless: “Fine, then. I’ll only give them 15 minutes to respond next time. Or I won’t ask for comments at all!” Because, we all know that’s how REAL journalism works.

  109. 109
    Corner Stone says:

    @Kristin: Ok. I’ll do my best to not use quotes and completely fucking lie about what someone actually said.
    Thanks for the protip!

  110. 110
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Cripes, this is unbelievably stupid, from Noisemax:

    Palin Slams Jesse Ventura Over Lawsuit

    Palin needs to GO FUCKING AWAY.

  111. 111
    nellcote says:

    @Heliopause:

    They’re still crediting Greenwald for other people’s work. It’s editor John Cook who threatened a 30 minute limit.

    well that’s true. GG is threatening 15 min or not at all…

    Glenn Greenwald ✔ @ggreenwald

    @onekade Give them 15 minutes before publication to comment from now on, or stop asking them for comment altogether.
    11:25 AM – 5 Aug 2014

  112. 112
    Kristin says:

    @Corner Stone: Honestly, you are really sad, and I feel sorry for you.

    But, I think I’m pretty done here. If I were anywhere else, and someone called me a “stupid fucking loser” that person would be banned. I know that’s not how things are done here, but I don’t need this abuse.

  113. 113
    Corner Stone says:

    @Kristin: That wasn’t a fucking paraphrase. You said, “his reaction is priceless”.
    After all the shenannies just a thread ago about incorrect attribution, you want to try this BS on?

  114. 114
    Corner Stone says:

    @Kristin: Fuck you, you stupid fucking loser.

  115. 115
    Kristin says:

    @Corner Stone: Well, you got me to leave, so good for you.

    Hopefully, you’ll get some help for whatever it is that ails you. I wish the best for you.

  116. 116
    Another Holocene Human (now with new computer) says:

    @kc: So if you don’t mean to end up giving classified info to China and Russia, it just happened, is that like when you’re making out with your boyfriend and you don’t have a condom and just happen to have unprotected sex, but it’s not horrible slutty slut fornicating because it just happened?

    I didn’t mean to go on a drunken bender with two other violent shitheads and abduct, rape, and murder that girl and then dump her body and fabricate an alibi, it just happened, so please acquit. The end.

  117. 117
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Kristin: Corner Stone got a time-out a few years back, but apparently there’s no way to ban people permanently. She calls us all names, especially if this subject comes up.

  118. 118
    Mandalay says:

    @askew:

    Greenwald is throwing a massive tantrum

    Ah, the good old days are back at BJ. The smear without any link to support it.

    Greenwald has a mole and he’s just published a big story. I would think he’s in seventh heaven right now.

    What a nutjob.

    You’re the nutjob. Where’s your link to Greenwald throwing a massive tantrum?

  119. 119
    ulee says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: I don’t want Palin to go away. McCain needs to hear this. Every day. For the rest of his miserable life.

  120. 120
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Keith G:

    So when Betty wrote this:

    But it’s more interesting to speculate about the identity and motivations of the new leaker.

    Is it another whey-faced, 20-something college dropout with Ron Paul stickers on his Cube? When will the feds ferret out this latest dudebro hero so we can finally know the truth?

    She was not referring to Snowden? Who was she referring to, then?

  121. 121
    Another Holocene Human (now with new computer) says:

    @Kristin: Yes, you’re right, I had totally forgotten about the fake background check scandal, where the Bush admin paid a contractor big buxxxx to save taxpayers money do background checks on clearance hires but the contractor, ya know, never got around to doing the background check.

    Investigating that would have been nice, but a) Greenwald’s ego sucks all the air out of the room and b) do-nothing congress continues to do nothing.

  122. 122
    Dog On Porch says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Re-election? He’d be wiser to ponder that old bugaboo going to prison, as he would surely be prosecuted and convicted. It would be an immortal trial, one for the ages.

    Memo to Wyden: #1 Be a patriotic sport. You know it’s the right thing to do. You’ll feel better after its done. #2 Come on, we’re talking FEDERAL prison, a veritable country club environment. #3 You would be acquitted in public opinion, and soon enough paroled. #4 You’ve got to trust me on #3.

  123. 123
    gogol's wife says:

    @Kristin:

    Please don’t leave because of him. I haven’t even read the thread, and I know it’s not worth it.

  124. 124
    burnspbesq says:

    And once again Corner Stone manages to hijack a thread, drain it of relevance or meaning, and make it all about her.

    Yay.

  125. 125
    Mnemosyne says:

    @burnspbesq:

    Him. Corner Stone is a him (and the sole denizen of my pie filter). Sorry, he’s on your team, you’re stuck with him.

  126. 126
    Cacti says:

    @Dog On Porch:

    Memo to Wyden: #1 Be a patriotic sport. You know it’s the right thing to do. You’ll feel better after its done. #2 Come on, we’re talking FEDERAL prison, a veritable country club environment. #3 You would be acquitted in public opinion, and soon enough paroled. #4 You’ve got to trust me on #3.

    Sounds like the same sort of memo that wikileaks got Bradley Manning to swallow.

  127. 127
    Corner Stone says:

    @Kristin:

    you’ll get some help for whatever it is that ails you

    It’s mainly just about when people lie about shit, then when called on it they crawfish the fuck on out the door.
    You could help me, if you were willing. Stop fucking lying.
    Thanks!

  128. 128
    Another Holocene Human (now with new computer) says:

    @LT: I refuse to follow HuffPoo links but I don’t understand–what’s the timeline here? If Greenwald has the goods, why doesn’t he drop it like it’s hot? Did “Eileen” just scramble to turn things around as soon as she got wind of what Greenwald had or did Greenwald just get distracted as he always does and figure he had all the time in the world. I mean, the Intercept is not exactly known for its professionalism, steady posting schedule, well, anything, really.

  129. 129
    Corner Stone says:

    @burnspbesq: She lied, then couldn’t back it up when called on it.
    Doesn’t have a thing to do with me.

  130. 130
    Keith G says:

    @Mnemosyne: Ah now, do not change the subject of the my question. When you typed:

    …the problem I have with Snowden is not that he leaked, it’s that he gave classified information to China and Russia.

    I became curious about the news report that gave you that information. I have not seen such a report and if I missed it, I want to find out more.

  131. 131
    burnspbesq says:

    @Dog On Porch:

    as he would surely be prosecuted and convicted

    Not so fast. A sitting member of Congress can dump pretty much anything he or she wants into the Congressional Record, and defend on the basis of the Speech and Debate Clause. I’d like his chances of getting the indictment dismissed before trial. I’d like even better the idea of Eric Holder deciding that this isn’t the hill to die on.

  132. 132
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Dog On Porch:

    Re-election? He’d be wiser to ponder that old bugaboo, going to prison, as he would surely be prosecuted and convicted. It would certainly be an immortal trial, one for the ages.

    Explain how Wyden would not have immunity if he did something like that from the well of the Senate.

    ETA: Wyden seems to be trying be a workhorse on the issue and is pushing legislation rather than being a showhorse and making a public spectacle. I see value in that even if you don’t.

  133. 133
    Corner Stone says:

    @Another Holocene Human (now with new computer):

    I mean, the Intercept is not exactly known for its professionalism, steady posting schedule, well, anything, really.

    What does this mean?
    They recently significantly delayed a story due to the govt stating that several parts of it could be harmful, and they needed to check it out.
    If that isn’t professionalism, then what is?

  134. 134
    Another Holocene Human (now with new computer) says:

    @BGinCHI: Good old internet. TPM at end of article “H/T Raw Story” (wow)

    Raw Story “according to the Cleveland Plain Dealer”

    Plain Dealer gives a byline to Andrew J Tobias, “Northeast Ohio Media Group”

    A really good tale would be nested 6 or 7 blogs deep, I think.

  135. 135
    burnspbesq says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Doesn’t have a thing to do with me.

    In the same sense that Kevin McCarthy’s book isn’t about impeachment.

    We get that you believe that your shit doesn’t stink. That’s about the deficiencies of your nose, and nothing else.

  136. 136
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @ulee: Why do we need to suffer for Gramps Walnut’s sins?

  137. 137
    Corner Stone says:

    @SatanicPanic: I thought we had something special?
    I’m a little emotional about this. Hold me?

  138. 138
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Keith G:

    Oh, sweetie. Yes, I’m sure that he spoke extensively to the Chinese government and was given asylum in Russia because he had absolutely no useful information to give them. Putin is such a sweet guy that he did it out of the generous kindness of his heart.

    By the way, when are you going to come look at that bridge I have for sale? I’m telling you, it’s a bargain.

  139. 139
    Corner Stone says:

    @burnspbesq: How did I make her lie, counselor?
    And when asked, how did I leave her without the ability to back it up in anyway?
    Thanks!

  140. 140
    Heliopause says:

    @nellcote:

    1. Greenwald was answering a hypothetical question.
    2. He is neither writer nor editor of this story.

  141. 141
    White Trash Liberal says:

    I would be interested in parsing what is on the watch list, and what qualifies not being affiliated with a terrorist group.

    It’s a large number, with some real stories embedded in the data.

    Or not. This is enough red meat to continue the controversy about government secrecy and surveillance, and that’s what counts.

  142. 142
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Corner Stone: I have a thing against white people so no

  143. 143
    LT says:

    @Another Holocene Human (now with new computer): So you refuse to follow links and then demand answers from me. Okay then.

  144. 144
    Another Holocene Human (now with new computer) says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Well, it really must surprise no-one that Palin’s throwing her weight behind a proven (in court!) liar. Liars gotta stick together. Dead military liars and their myths are the most beloved and protected liars at all.

    (Ventura was in the military but dared to criticize it.)

  145. 145
    Another Holocene Human (now with new computer) says:

    @LT: I’m sorry you’re having a tantrum today. I thought we were having a discussion. But running ghostery or not, not stepping in HuffPoo with this browser. Have the same policy with DailyMail and “free porn!!!” sites.

  146. 146
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Mnemosyne: Huh. I don’t think jokingly speculating about similarities between two leakers who leaked information from the same agency to the same journalist constitutes wholesale approval of divulging government secrets to other countries. I failed to consider your (as yet unproven, as far as I know) allegation about Snowden, instead referencing objections others often bandy about when this topic surfaces, such as Snowden’s race, political affiliations and dudebro-ness .

  147. 147
    Dog On Porch says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Don’t look at me to explain. My understanding has it that members of the Intelligence Committees will be in prosecutorial deep shit if they intentionally reveal what they know. No doubt a Constitutional imbroglio would serve to make a even more compelling drama.

    And if congressional immunity can be invoked via the the well of the senate, or by inclusion of documents into the senate record, Wyden should have done it years ago.

  148. 148
    Mandalay says:

    @Kristin:

    Because, we all know that’s how REAL journalism works.

    His reaction was because of what the government did, which was to violate the usual relationship between journalists and sources (how REAL journalism works), and leak a story to a third party.

    But you obviously didn’t understand any of that. Advertising your ignorance and stupidity was paramount.

  149. 149
    Another Holocene Human (now with new computer) says:

    @Kristin: That’s because this place is full of olds, and they rely on killfiles, like on usenet, again, olds.

    There is something called a “pie filter” you can download it and it will improve Corner Stone’s comments 100%. I guarantee it.

    I really like pie!

  150. 150
    Corner Stone says:

    @SatanicPanic: I’m a tiny bit Native American. Does that help? A little? My maternal grandmother? Hmmm? Help a little? Little bit? Maybe? Hmmmm??

  151. 151
    ulee says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Well, Lennon digged a pony. McCrash digged looking at Palin’s ass on stage. Palin digs Putin’s hairless chest. I dig watching McCrash eat Palin’s bile for breakfast every morning. It’s sort of a full circle.

  152. 152
    Corner Stone says:

    @Another Holocene Human (now with new computer): Ahhh, the exultant pie user!
    Always warms the cockles of my heart, and festoons me with glee!

  153. 153
    Mnemosyne says:

    @White Trash Liberal:

    I think “watch list” is triggering a lot of reactions from people because we all know how goddamned impossible it was to get off the “terrorist watch list” for TSA and how many people were on it who never should have been on in the first place (like little kids, people not of the same race as the listed person, etc.) So, like everyone else, I’m wondering how many of the people on this “watch list” actually belong on there because they actually have some kind of terrorist ties, and how many people just happen to share a common name with someone with terrorist ties.

  154. 154
    Mandalay says:

    @Heliopause:

    Greenwald seems to be a kind of supervillain puppetmaster in some people’s minds. Odd.

    Yep. There’s a slew of idiots on this thread chortling and guffawing about stuff that never happened.

  155. 155
    LanceThruster says:

    This occurred about 6-8 years ago. I asked Michael Chertoff directly at a lecture at my university. I asked him how we as Americans could trust that the recent story of so many false positive of the no-fly watch list is not a serious concern(it’s up to like a bazillion names so clearly the only people in the country not terrorist are me and you…and i’m not so sure about you).

    He dismissed it with the verbal technique of hand waving and changed the subject.

    He said (pretty close to an exact quote) That it doesn’t happen that often, the information is not misused, false positives can be corrected so they don’t recur, our people have integrity, I can assure you, and when they don’t they area they are lacking in integrity isn’t relevant to those with privileged information. He then changed to subject by adding that they’ve got some cool spy toys/aids/tools/software on the horizon that meant that trivial concerns we had that were of no real concern would soon be of even less concern, though that would be based on them getting the budget needed to keep that well-oiled machine humming.

  156. 156
    Cacti says:

    @Mandalay:

    His reaction was because of what the government did, which was to violate the usual relationship between journalists and sources

    But “the government” wasn’t the source, the leaker was the source.

    Not to mention, when you style yourself as a new-school, guerilla journalist who is there to challenge the norms of journalism and shake things up…

    It seems just a bit petulant to whine “bad form” when someone else steps on a traditional nicety that you happen to favor.

  157. 157
    LT says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: “@LT: You know, Cole could send you a no-prize, the way Stan Lee sent no-prizes to Marvel fans back in the 60′s.”

    I would cherish it.

  158. 158
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    It’s almost certain that both Snowden and this leaker are white and male, because that’s how security agencies roll. But as long as this leaker doesn’t take his knowledge to China and Russia and claim asylum there, that’s where the similarities end.

    The “dudebro” thing is slightly different, because it started as people pointing out that the Snowden threads were getting hundreds of comments by freaked-out white guys while threads about stop-and-frisk had maybe 20 comments. And I will freely admit, while I am somewhat concerned about electronic surveillance, I don’t consider it the prime civil liberties violation of all time, which is what some of the guys getting labeled “dudebros” were acting like it was.

  159. 159
    El Caganer says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Well, he actually served his full term as governor, so there’s that.

  160. 160
    Another Holocene Human (now with new computer) says:

    @Mnemosyne: Too be fair, Putin may or may not have gotten useful intelligence from Snowden (he seems to have stolen a lot of stale Powerpoints, not saying he didn’t get some sensitive documents, it’s kinda unclear actually), I mean Snowden claims Putin doesn’t get his stolen docs, but Putin may have solely wanted him for propaganda purposes.

    Remember, Putin’s VOA-style external propaganda channel, Russia Today, heavily courted lefties and loons and libertarians and Snowden is a hero to all three groups. So it plays into Putin’s ridiculous (to us) propaganda that Russia is a beacon of freedom and the USA is an authoritarian hellhole. Putin is always using old-school ComIntern era propaganda such as calling Western political parties fascists and Nazis and stuff.

    It also helps his internal propaganda to some extent. He can have Snowden on domestic TV talking about how horrible the US gov is for doing all the stuff Putin does, but turned up to 11, at home.

    RT was actually quite effective propaganda/trolling/subversion until the Euromaiden. The young Ukrainian activists were too good at using Twitter and pushing stuff out in English. Some RT’ers have even quit.

  161. 161
    LT says:

    @Cacti:

    But “the government” wasn’t the source, the leaker was the source.

    Not to mention, when you style yourself as a new-school, guerilla journalist who is there to challenge the norms of journalism and shake things up…

    It seems just a bit petulant to whine “bad form” when someone else steps on a traditional nicety that you happen to favor.

    The fact that the government *already realizes they fucked up makes you dumb as dumbnuts up there.

  162. 162
    Another Holocene Human (now with new computer) says:

    @Corner Stone: To be fair, claiming some distant NA ancestry with no NA identity or ties to NA culture is about as white as it gets. Whether it’s a fanciful lie or in fact true.

  163. 163
    Cacti says:

    @LT:

    The fact that the government *already realizes they fucked up makes you dumb as dumbnuts up there.

    Dudebro Translator: I got nuthin’ so I’ll start calling you names now.

  164. 164
    Dog On Porch says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Even if I don’t? I think the world of Wyden, I do.

    You make it sound as if asking a man to voluntarily submit to a indeterminable prison sentence is a big deal. Point noted.

  165. 165
    Keith G says:

    @Mnemosyne: Cool. I thought that I had missed some reporting on this, but no.

    People make assumptions all the time and you are sure free to follow yours as far as you choose.

    As far as your bridge is concerned, if it is made of no stronger stuff than your imaginings about Snowden, I am afraid that I will have to pass.

  166. 166
    Violet says:

    @LanceThruster: Ah, Skeletor and his money-making scheme of installing Rape-Scan machines in every airport. Certainly a guy one can trust.

  167. 167
    Cacti says:

    @Another Holocene Human (now with new computer):

    RT was actually quite effective propaganda/trolling/subversion until the Euromaiden. The young Ukrainian activists were too good at using Twitter and pushing stuff out in English. Some RT’ers have even quit.

    Yet somehow, this relatively unimportant political blog got its own dedicated, full-time Kremlin-bot.

  168. 168
    Mandalay says:

    @Cacti:

    It seems just a bit petulant to whine “bad form” when someone else steps on a traditional nicety that you happen to favor.

    Whatever. Either way the Intercept has been given the perfect justification (or “pretext” or “excuse”, depending on your point of view) to now go ahead dispense with those “niceties” in future. And although I am not a journalist, I think that giving someone an opportunity to respond is much more than a nicety, and the government shot itself in the foot today.

  169. 169
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Dog On Porch: I was pointing out the difference between working of legislation to change the current system which Wyden has been doing and creating a media spectacle which is what you seem to be advocating that he do.

  170. 170
    LT says:

    @Cacti: “I got nuthin’”

    http://pando.com/2014/08/05/th.....al-outlet/

    “As for the AP, its hasty publication of three paragraphs in order to come in just ahead of the Intercept is the equivalent of posting “First!” as the initial comment in a story. Luckily, this is the Internet where people get their news from thousands of sources, not one of two local newspapers, or one of five local television stations. Being first doesn’t matter anymore. What will be remembered is who did it better.”

    Dat funny. And it makes your nothing even more nothingy.

  171. 171
    shelley says:

    Ron Paul stickers on his Cube?

    On his ‘Cube?’
    *********
    Homer Simpson: Okay Mr. Burns Here are your messages: “You have thirty minutes to move your car.” “You have ten minutes to move your car.” “Your car has been impounded.” “Your car has been crushed into a cube.” “You have thirty minutes to move your cube.”

    Homer Simpson: [Phone Rings] Hello?

    Mr. Burns: Is it about my cube?

  172. 172
    Corner Stone says:

    @Another Holocene Human (now with new computer): Not that it matters, because I do not, in fact, claim it. But my maternal grandmother was half Apache and half Scots.
    I do not list myself as NA on any application, nor anything else. So go screw, clownshoe.

  173. 173
    raven says:

    After 15 months the mayor and commission just approved the sewer relocation project and they should start the project soon! Whoo hoo for us!

  174. 174
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Keith G:

    No, just what Snowden was telling the South China Morning Post:

    “If I have time to go through this information, I would like to make it available to journalists in each country to make their own assessment, independent of my bias, as to whether or not the knowledge of US network operations against their people should be published.”

    Nope, not trying to damage US intelligence overseas operations at all. Solely concerned with domestic surveillance in the US against US citizens.

  175. 175
    Cacti says:

    @LT:

    As for the AP, its hasty publication of three paragraphs in order to come in just ahead of the Intercept is the equivalent of posting “First!” as the initial comment in a story. Luckily, this is the Internet where people get their news from thousands of sources, not one of two local newspapers, or one of five local television stations. Being first doesn’t matter anymore. What will be remembered is who did it better.”</blockquote>

    So, “spoiling a scoop” doesn’t even really matter in the digital age?

    Cool.

    Makes the dudebro whining seem even more petulant.

  176. 176
    Mnemosyne says:

    And since I have to go do some work now — yes, I get very annoyed when my concerns about Snowden taking classified information to China and Russia are hand-waved away as me just hating dudebros. It’s kind of freaky that people are A-OK with statements like the one Snowden gave about about wanting to reveal US foreign intelligence operations around the world. At this point, is there anything about Snowden’s actions that his defenders won’t excuse away?

  177. 177
    Corner Stone says:

    @Cacti:

    But “the government” wasn’t the source, the leaker was the source.

    They asked the govt for comment or clarification. Are you too stupid to realize that?
    Oh, wait.

  178. 178
    Violet says:

    @raven: Congratulations! That’s excellent news. What a long saga for you guys. Glad it all worked out in the end.

  179. 179
    Cacti says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    At this point, is there anything about Snowden’s actions that his defenders won’t excuse away?

    Nope.

    SATSQ

  180. 180
    Another Holocene Human (now with new computer) says:

    @Heliopause, WTH are you talking about upthread? Does not Greenwald reference the Intercept getting scooped on twitter in a conversation with his disciples? I mean it’s all public.

    This was funny. http://littlegreenfootballs.co.....0/10495773 (oops, didn’t include my url on first pass)

    I will just come out and say that I hate Greenwald and have always distrusted him, going back to his Slate days. (eta: was it Salon? I forget) I think he’s a libertarian pied piper with a GOP agenda who is trolling lefties and trying to destroy the Dem coalition from within. I thought his book circa 2006 was okay, actually I was surprised by the writing and scholarship (I guess that would be too much work for 2014 Greenwald), although of course his take is only one take (he starts with the thesis that Ford pardoning Nixon was the pivotal moment in normalizing the notion that the elites should not face punishment for their actions in government). Personally, I think politics and history are more complicated than Greenwald allows. But he made some good points. Probably because it was what I wanted to hear. Narcissist-cons go through a “honeymoon” period with marks where they say and do exactly what the mark wants to hear. Of course, things quickly go downhill for the mark once they are hooked.

    Greenwald is driven by his psychological needs, not out of any concern for the greater good. So is Snowden, though he’s got this more pathetic, classic, narcissistic complex where he sees himself as some sort of messianic figure and just craves attention and adulation. Greenwald is the more manipulative sort. He wants power, glory, money, money, money, and of course attention, negative or positive, doesn’t matter. He is endlessly disruptive and destroys any possibility of a rational discussion. In the end, Greenwald has succeeded in tainting his biggest accomplishment and sowing distrust about the motives of any leaker due to his behavior, his exaggerations and manipulations, and his total disregard for the safety of intelligence personnel or the public at large.

  181. 181
    Cacti says:

    @Corner Stone:

    They asked the govt for comment or clarification. Are you too stupid to realize that?
    Oh, wait.

    Speaking of dudebros…

    Did you enjoy your third bottle of dinner this evening?

  182. 182
    raven says:

    @Violet: Thanks! We still have to see the actual sewer job that is going to tear up the street and require the taking down of several big trees. Then our contractor will actually build the addition. We may get in under two years!

  183. 183
    EthylEster says:

    re: so we can finally know the truth

    maybe this phrase needs to be retired from the english language.
    maybe this concept needs to be retired from human consciousness.
    knowing the truth is so pre post-modernism.

  184. 184
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Cacti: Maybe something along the lines of “supporting Democrats” I could see them not being happy with

  185. 185
    Another Holocene Human (now with new computer) says:

    @Corner Stone: Oh, is it Calvinball today? You just said you’re not white, but you never claim not to be white. Got it.

  186. 186
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @EthylEster: This is true. No, wait… Aaarrgghhh!

  187. 187
    LanceThruster says:

    @Violet:

    I felt very safe.

    /s

    xD

  188. 188
    Violet says:

    @raven: Yeah, now the real fun begins. I hope it all works out as easily as it can. At least the city and everyone seems to be on board so there shouldn’t be any surprises in that regard.

  189. 189
    chopper says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Wow! Is your tribal name “Drinks on Weekdays”?

  190. 190
    Corner Stone says:

    @Cacti: Dudebro! What’s up, Dudebro? How’s the dudebro life treatin’ ya, Dudebro?

  191. 191
    raven says:

    @Violet: Yup, we are very fortunate this is happening.

  192. 192
  193. 193
    Another Holocene Human (now with new computer) says:

    @EthylEster: Even in the post post post post modern age we will still have “TRUTH!” because authoritarians will have to invent it.

    Black and white thinking comes from an overactive amygdala. Once it goes nuts you start believing there is only one side to every story, TRUTH! and LIES. And of course OTHERS, THEM are LYING to you. You have always, always been righteous and you’re under attack because you won’t give in. You’re the hero of your own thriller/slasher/horror/Left Behind drama.

  194. 194
    LanceThruster says:

    @Violet:

    His security contingent was massive. No one was allowed to exit the building nor could anybody go near the walkway corridor where his fleet of black SUV’s were parked. The only thing he didn’t do was do that profile pose like Il Duce.

  195. 195
    Cacti says:

    @Another Holocene Human (now with new computer):

    He wants power, glory, money, money, money, and of course attention, negative or positive, doesn’t matter

    I’m sure you’ll be surprised to know that the inaugural recipient of First Look Media’s new grant program to “Promote and Protect Free Speech” is…

    David Miranda, GG’s partner, to help pay his legal fees in his document muling case in the UK.

  196. 196
    Elizabelle says:

    @Dog On Porch:

    Have not followed anything on this thread, but got to tell you that I love your commenting moniker.

    And that reminds me that I miss Judas Escargot. Who might be here under a different nym, or might have wandered on …

  197. 197
    Violet says:

    @LanceThruster: Did you also buy your duct tape and plastic sheeting like a good little Murkin? I know I did!

    Actually, I needed some duct tape for real around that time and couldn’t find any. So annoying.

  198. 198
    Corner Stone says:

    @chopper:

    your tribal name “Drinks on Weekdays”

    I think that’s really insensitive. I may be an asshole, but the widespread claim, and reality, of alcoholism in Native American individuals is a really vicious slur and trope.
    I hope you reconsider this kind of insensitive, and disgusting, racist epithet.

  199. 199
    Schlemizel says:

    This is just too precious to wait for an open thread:

    On HBO’s Real Time Friday, former presidential candidate Ralph Nader had no problem deciding between two potential 2016 candidates.

    Asked if he prefers Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) to former secretary of state Hillary Clinton, Nader, widely known for his political independence, replied, “You mean Generalissima Hillary Clinton?”

    “No,” he said, “I support Rand Paul on foreign, military policy, the federal reserve and the bloated military budget. All of which she is on the other side. Who’s liberal and who’s conservative anymore?”

    I would like to start a kickstarter to buy Ralphie a 1961 Corvair.

  200. 200
    Elizabelle says:

    New thread, perhaps?

    Cannot get excited about Edward Snowden or other dudebros. Sorry.

    Admit it. You knew I was shallow to begin with …

  201. 201
    raven says:

    @Schlemizel: Fuck an open thread.

  202. 202
    Botsplainer says:

    Jeremy Scahill – ROFLMAO.

    Fucking lunatic, if you ask me.

    I’ll add this- I know at least one American citizen who is in a role of active collaboration with Hamas. I also know for certain that he is informing for two separate alphabet agencies. I suspect that at least two others I know are on the dirty side of the divide.

    I’m one guy in a relatively nondescript place. Multiply it out to heavier concentration of people, and it bears watching.

  203. 203
    raven says:

    @Elizabelle: Derail it, who cares? My sewer is just as interesting.

  204. 204
    Keith G says:

    @Mnemosyne: Well, your quote, when read in the context of the full article goes no further in supporting your claim. It was a quick Google-licious effort to find your missing support, but it was inept – as are your assertions.

    At this point, is there anything about Snowden’s actions that his defenders won’t excuse away?

    I am sure that just like Obama, Snowden has myopic defenders who can find no fault in a hero that they need to believe in. I am not a part of either camp.

  205. 205
    Cacti says:

    @Schlemizel:

    “No,” he said, “I support Rand Paul on foreign, military policy, the federal reserve and the bloated military budget. All of which she is on the other side. Who’s liberal and who’s conservative anymore?”

    Ralph’s favorite candidate was last seen with noted anti-hispanic bigot, Steve King in Iowa, nearly spitting out his hamburger and running away when he heard that the young Hispanic female who wanted to ask him a question was a DREAMer.

  206. 206
    Elizabelle says:

    @Schlemizel:

    Weirdly enough, I just encountered Saint Ralph online a few hours ago.

    Was perusing Rick Perlstein’s online end notes, and came to a link to a newspaper story about Billy Carter’s gas station in Plains having an explosion —

    I know — we all remember where we were that day —

    and it was mentioned that Ralph Nader was in town, umpiring a baseball game, although his real reason had been meeting up with President Jimmy Carter. And he watched some of the fire burning out from the press room, if memory serves?

  207. 207
    Elizabelle says:

    @raven:

    Tell me more about your sewer.

  208. 208
    chopper says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Hahah! You’re clever, for a pathetic drunk.

  209. 209
    Elizabelle says:

    Is it Shark Week yet?

  210. 210
    Corner Stone says:

    @chopper: After all the things John Cole has gone through, the heartbreaking stuff he’s detailed…this is the kind of person you want to be here?
    I’m not overly religious, but I hope something good comes into your heart.

  211. 211
    LT says:

    @chopper:

    Is this weird *drunk-shaming* (not saying target drinks or not – have no clue) – a real, defended thing on Balloon Juice now?

    John Cole?

  212. 212
    LanceThruster says:

    @Violet:

    I put together the ‘kits’ to distribute to the various depts with duct tape and sheeting as per the boss.

  213. 213
    raven says:

    @Elizabelle: We planned, re-fied, and prepared for an addition. On the second dat of construction we hit the mis-marked city sewer that, known by anyone, ran right next to our house. The city denied responsibility but agreed to move it on their timeline. It’s been really complex ( and expensive) but we cleared all the hurdles and look to it being started in a couple of weeks. It entails putting in 300 ft of new line 18 ft deep in the middle of the street we live on. Like I said, we are very fortunate they are going to do it.

  214. 214
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Elizabelle: Turns out it is next week. Not this week. I was wrong. Sorry.

  215. 215
  216. 216
    Cacti says:

    @LT:

    Is this weird *drunk-shaming* (not saying target drinks or not – have no clue) – a real, defended thing on Balloon Juice now?

    Daaaaaaddddy! They’re being mean to us!!!

  217. 217
    JPL says:

    @raven: So when do you remove the deck again? Congrats

  218. 218
    raven says:

    @LT: People write what they want to. What’s Cole got to do with it?

  219. 219
    Violet says:

    @Botsplainer:

    it bears watching

    . Yep.

  220. 220
    EthylEster says:

    @askew: linky?

  221. 221
    White Trash Liberal says:

    I like this story at the Intercept. The slant is certainly civil libertarian, with plenty of opinion platform for ACLU lawyering, but that’s not bad in this context. The research is good, and I think it backs its fundamental premise well: the watch list has expanded under Obama in multiple ways.

    It’s a tool that doesn’t appear to provide a practical good but is a near and dear “data boondoggle” that wows the NatSec investors. And yes, it appears to overwhelmingly impact the Muslim and Sikh communities.

    The Muslim community in San Diego is close knit. They loan, employ, teach and care for one another on a deep level… As have other migrant communities. A watch list would become a dragnet because of that cultural bond.

    I don’t see the benefit and think it cheapens us as a nation.

    A little more of what Scahill is writing and a little less histrionics. I hope there’s follow ups that dig deeper into the data and build a case for just how invasive and arbitrary this form of law enforcement is. If only PRISM could have been handled this way.

  222. 222
    Corner Stone says:

    @EthylEster: That’s been asked, several times now. Commenter askew has nothing else to say on the matter. Apparently.

  223. 223
    EthylEster says:

    @Elizabelle: I haven’t thought of him (her) for years!

  224. 224
    raven says:

    @JPL: can’t seem to reply

  225. 225
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @EthylEster: I believe that he led the other snails to French restaurants.

  226. 226
    LT says:

    @raven: What’s Cole got to do with the subject of drunk-shaming?

  227. 227
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @LT: You brought him up.

  228. 228
    Heliopause says:

    @Another Holocene Human (now with new computer):

    I’m going to pass some supersecret info on to you, but please, this is strictly on background.

    There have been two stories published based on info from the alleged “second leaker”. Greenwald was not on the byline of either.

    John Cook is editor-in-chief of The Intercept. Presumably, he has worked closely with the authors of the stories, and was reported by the Huffington Post as having established the new 30 minute limit.

    Greenwald’s relevance to this story ranges somewhere between non-existent and merely tangential, but your clownish obsession with his supervillain capabilities is certainly instructive.

  229. 229
    LT says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Wow! How would I know if you hadn’t told me?

    The question was rhetorical.

  230. 230
    EthylEster says:

    @Corner Stone: I can’t find the tantrum to which he is referring. Also I can’t find any way to do advance searches in google. where are they hiding that feature? or did it get eliminated?

  231. 231
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @LT: One can’t really be sure how goldfish like your mental capacities are. I decided to play it safe.

  232. 232
    Corner Stone says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Damn. You seem pretty cranky. Into your 3rd day of drinking to celebrate your 50th?
    You’re hammered, aren’t you? It’s ok. You can tell us how much of a drunk you are.

  233. 233
    Elizabelle says:

    @raven:

    Yeesh. Some fishing may take your mind off that. Although the yard will eventually be spectacular.

  234. 234
    Violet says:

    @LanceThruster: I’m sure you felt a lot safer knowing that everyone had duct tape and plastic sheeting at the ready. Hoping there were no serial killers in your workplace.

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): What did the poor goldfish do to earn such a slanderous statement?

  235. 235
    Corner Stone says:

    @EthylEster: I think commenter askew is a female, but I may be wrong. I’m just making a guess after she drunkenly confessed her hot pants lovin’ for Gov Dan “The Man” O’Malley.

  236. 236
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Corner Stone: I had a few drinks on the 2d, but nothing since then. Thanks for asking. Drinking a Seagram’s diet ginger ale right now.

  237. 237
    Elizabelle says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):

    Next week for Shark Week.

    Marking my calendar.

    Last night was Jaws back to back on AMC.

  238. 238
    Corner Stone says:

    @Violet: Damn! Lots of drunken asshole commenters around this place! Lay off the sauce, sister!

  239. 239
    Corner Stone says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):

    I had a few drinks on the 2d, but nothing since then.

    Are there a lot of bars on 2nd Street where you are in Wiscy? Is it like 6th St in Austin?
    Ha! Wiscy! Yeah. You’re fucking drunk.

  240. 240
    LT says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): It’s hard to stay in character playing “Mr Reasonable” when it’s obvious you’re the farthest thing from it, huh?

  241. 241
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Corner Stone: You would be thinking of State Street in Madison. Beyond that, whatever.

  242. 242
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @LT: Quoi?

  243. 243
    Dog On Porch says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): And to think, too, that you did all that while sitting with a stick up your ass.

  244. 244
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Dog On Porch: Not the whole time.

  245. 245
    Violet says:

    @Corner Stone: Sauce? Not sure what you mean.

  246. 246
    Corner Stone says:

    @Violet: Sauce. The Sauce! Sauce? You know, “the sauce”?
    Damn, you’re even further along on the sauce than I thought.

  247. 247
    LT says:

    @Corner Stone: Get that man a thesaucerus.

  248. 248
    Violet says:

    @Corner Stone: Chocolate sauce? Like on ice cream?

  249. 249
    Corner Stone says:

    @Violet: Ah, sugar crash. Classic cravings sign of someone on the sauce.

  250. 250
    Violet says:

    @Corner Stone: Mint sauce? Like with lamb chops?

  251. 251
    Elie says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I hear that!

  252. 252
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Violet: Lamb Chop? The puppet?

  253. 253
    Elie says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Sign me up — definitely watching! Heh

  254. 254
    Corner Stone says:

    @Violet: Man, now a protein craving? Damn. The sauce craving must be strong on you.

  255. 255
    Violet says:

    @Corner Stone: Still not sure what you’re talking about. I’m not craving sauce of any kind. Haven’t had any sauce of any kind today either. Haven’t had dinner yet. Red snapper is what’s for dinner but don’t think there will be sauce with that either.

  256. 256
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Violet: If you really aren’t playing, sauce in this context is booze.

  257. 257
    Another Holocene Human (now with new computer) says:

    loltweets

    jeremy scahill ✔ @jeremyscahill
    Follow
    US government, pissed we were publishing our story, tried to undermine us by leaking it to other news organization right before we published
    12:55 PM – 5 Aug 2014

  258. 258
    Corner Stone says:

    @Violet: Ah. The shame spiral. And denial phase.
    It’s ok. We’re here for you. We’re here for you.

  259. 259
    Corner Stone says:

    @Another Holocene Human (now with new computer): LOL! That is just…ha! Just so LOL!!

  260. 260
    Violet says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): I’m aware. Thanks. Haven’t had any of that either. I rarely drink alcohol of any kind. Almost never during the week.

  261. 261
    Violet says:

    @Corner Stone: That is so sweet of you. Of course you’re here for me. Would expect nothing less. What a dear.

  262. 262
    Corner Stone says:

    @Violet: Hey, at least I believed in you enough to just be messing around. Others…hmmm…weren’t so sure.
    Remember that. I believed in you, even when you may not have believed in me.

  263. 263
    Violet says:

    @Corner Stone: Honey, why would you think I didn’t believe in you? I’m crushed.

  264. 264
    Cervantes says:

    @Dog On Porch: The hope is fine, I share it — but do you see that day approaching or receding?

  265. 265
    different-church-lady says:

    @Kristin:

    “Fine, then. I’ll only give them 15 minutes to respond next time. Or I won’t ask for comments at all!”

    In fact… next time… they’ll GO STRAIGHT TO THEIR ROOM WITHOUT ANY SUPPER!

  266. 266
    different-church-lady says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    The only person trying to discredit this leaker by associating him with Snowden’s actions is, well, you.

    I took it as very much the opposite: someone who isn’t Snowden is passing info out. Therefore any skepticism you have regarding Snowden’s filtering and motivations doesn’t apply.

  267. 267
    different-church-lady says:

    @White Trash Liberal: I bet you complain about the lack of plausibility in horror film plots too.

  268. 268
    Cervantes says:

    @Keith G: By, not over, if I were you.

  269. 269
    different-church-lady says:

    @Mandalay: I dunno about you, but the things that’s really stumping me here is the idea that the guy who’s sworn to throw every bombshell he can at the NSA actually has a sort of Marquess of Queensberry arrangement with them.

  270. 270
    different-church-lady says:

    @White Trash Liberal: You actually read the article? What the hell are you trying to do, ruin this perfectly good flamewar?

  271. 271
    Cervantes says:

    @Another Holocene Human (now with new computer):

    One can have a claim but not assert it.

    It’s not complicated.

  272. 272
    central texas says:

    “which contains info on 680K people, 40% of whom allegedly have no ties to a known terrorist group.”

    I think I would like that better as: “40%of whom have no alleged ties”. I seriously doubt the the other 60% are all dedicated jihadies given the the revenge motives, intimidation attempts, stupidity, and ignorance so common among those who are free to add names with no consequences. (to themselves)

  273. 273
    Cervantes says:

    @Corner Stone: I was surprised by that one, too.

  274. 274
    LT says:

    @different-church-lady:

    dunno about you, but the things that’s really stumping me here is the idea that the guy who’s sworn to throw every bombshell he can at the NSA actually has a sort of Marquess of Queensberry arrangement with them.

    How obtuse do you have to be to say something like this? Do you think some of the most celebrated journalists in history – Bernstein and Woodward, just for two examples – were considered polite little kittens by government? Jesus, what idiocy.

    And the fact that the government backtracked, apologized, and said it was all an accident – because they KNOW they have, or may have, fucked themselves with any number of journalists, period … do you have ZERO receptors?

  275. 275
    Corner Stone says:

    @Cervantes: Honestly? I’ve kind of given up trying to parse the screeds laid down by Another Holocene Human here.
    It hurts my brain to try and decipher what AHH (1) is advocating for or against, (2) what perspective AHH is advocating from or against and (3) what the fuck point AHH is trying to make in AHH’s endless repetitive paragraphs of incomprehensible nonsense.

    There’s some aspect of union solidarity in there somewhere, which I am all about, but then I get lost in some other screed about something or other and something something where that one guy did something and then those other people ate fruit and that pissed off a bunch of some or some others. But those people didn’t know that the other some peoples were about to protest something else. And that really got the backs up of those other people I mentioned 8 paragraphs ago!
    So yeah, argle bargle mcargle. Those things and those people.
    You’ve been told, whitey.

  276. 276
    different-church-lady says:

    @LT: You appear to be saying two, and perhaps three contradictory things at once, so I have no idea how to answer.

    All I know is the guy who publicly wants people to believe he’s at war with the NSA apparently believed he had some kind of gentleman’s agreement with said agency in private.

    If Mark Felt had gone to another set of reporters, I doubt we would have seen Woodward and Bernstein complain about it publicly. But apparently today it’s all Ralph Wolf/Sam Sheepdog — no punching and share the thermos during the lunch break.

  277. 277
    Corner Stone says:

    @different-church-lady:

    All I know is the guy who publicly wants people to believe he’s at war with the NSA apparently believed he had some kind of gentleman’s agreement with said agency in private.

    This is stupid.
    They had a story, asked the govt for comment/whatever, and the govt called up another outlet and said, “Oh hey! Go to print with this, dog”.

    Your contention is stupid bullshit.

  278. 278
    Corner Stone says:

    @Violet:

    Red snapper is what’s for dinner but don’t think there will be sauce with that either.

    Once went to a birthday dinner for the dad of my good friend. Around 70 yrs old or so. He looked right at the (maybe) 18 yr old waitress and straight faced asked her, “How’s your snapper?”
    I almost fell down, because I was on the sauce, and my friend’s dad continued, “Is it fresh?”
    She turned a brilliant shade of red, probably because by then I was doing little kick turn circles on the carpet like I was one of the Three Stooges.
    “Wooo Wooo Wooo! Nyuck Nyuck Nyuck! Hhhrrr! Doink!!”

  279. 279
    Cervantes says:

    @Corner Stone:

    There’s some aspect of union solidarity in there somewhere, which I am all about

    I see that, too — and appreciate it.

  280. 280
    AnonPhenom says:

    Is it another whey-faced, 20-something college dropout with Ron Paul stickers on his Cube?

    Let us know when you find out what kind of countertops his kitchen has.

  281. 281
  282. 282
    Donald says:

    The Israel/Palestine threads were intelligent, but this one is more the type I associate with this blog. Front posts–worth reading. Anything involving Greenwald or Snowden or Manning,even tangentially–skip the thread.

Comments are closed.