Target to Ammosexuals: Not In Our Stores

Since the NRA has captured a sufficient number of legislators to block any meaningful gun safety reforms, it appears we’ll have to rely on private corporations to dial back the crazy just a little. Target issued a statement today on “open carry” in its stores. An excerpt:

As you’ve likely seen in the media, there has been a debate about whether guests in communities that permit “open carry” should be allowed to bring firearms into Target stores. Our approach has always been to follow local laws, and of course, we will continue to do so. But starting today we will also respectfully request that guests not bring firearms to Target – even in communities where it is permitted by law.

[snip]

This is a complicated issue, but it boils down to a simple belief: Bringing firearms to Target creates an environment that is at odds with the family-friendly shopping and work experience we strive to create.

This will make the retailer a “target” of ammosexuals, who aren’t content to stroke their long, hard muzzles in the privacy of their own homes but want to make sure you and your spouse, siblings, children, aunties, uncles, grannies, etc., see what an impressive prosthesis they’ve purchased. But it’s good news. Kudos to Target.

Please feel free to discuss gun nuts or any other topic.






151 replies
  1. 1

    I am sure there is already a Twitter meme from the ammosexuals about doing a little “Target practice.” Oh ha ha.

  2. 2
    The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik says:

    Took them a while to jump on the wagon, but they finally did it, about time.

    I will never understand the assholery and/or sheer pants-wetting paranoia necessary to bring one to wear a long gun into a store aisle to buy some fucking cheap clothes and itinerary.

  3. 3
    pat says:

    Open thread, right?

    I posted something on the Hobby Lobby thread asking why MEN who are potential FATHERS are not in the streets demanding effective birth control for their wives and girl friends.

    Everyone seems to think that the ladies can get pregnant all on their little lonesome.

  4. 4
    srv says:

    The poll, released this morning, says that 33 percent of respondents called Barack Obama the worst president since over the last 70 years, and 28 percent said that of George W. Bush. They outranked all other presidents for that dubious distinction.

    Ronald Reagan (35 percent), Bill Clinton (18) and John F. Kennedy (15) scored best when respondents were asked to name the best president since World War II. Some 8 percent said that of Obama.

    Missourian Harry S. Truman came in sixth best of the 12 presidents since World War II, with 4 percent calling him the best (a point behind Dwight Eisenhower). Truman and Kennedy had virtually no respondents calling them the worst, and therefore came across best in that category. Richard Nixon (13 percent) and Jimmy Carter (8 percent) were chosen as the third- and fourth-worst presidents in this poll.

    Of the two judged worst, respondents were split when asked who was better – Obama (39 percent) or George W. Bush (40 percent).

    Adding to the election-year woes for Obama and Democrats in the 2014 congressional races, 45 percent of respondents said the country would have been better off had Mitt Romney defeated Obama in 2012, while 38 percent said the United Sates would have been worse off.

  5. 5

    Speaking of loons, can Juicers from Maine tell me what exactly is happening with Gov. LePage. I used to know many Republicans when Iived in Maine, I swear to God they were not that crazy then (about 10 years ago or so)

  6. 6

    Welcome to America.

    According to the Daily Times, the first man, Ronald Williams, approached the second man in the store and demanded to see his identification and firearms license. Williams also pulled his gun from his holster, without pointing it at the second man. The second man responded by saying that he was not obligated to show any permits or identification — then he paid for his purchase, left the store, and called the police.

    Seriously, if you see someone with a gun, not obviously a police officer, call 911. It’s your right to do so.

  7. 7
    The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik says:

    @srv:

    Welp, time to throw my hands up and find a wall to bash my head into for the rest of the day. Not even lunch time and I’m already thinking even less about the state of American politics than ever.

  8. 8
    AliceBlue says:

    I don’t know how to do the link thing-y, but apparently the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993–the law that the five Justices relied on in the Hobby Lobby case-was declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in 1997. City of Boerne vs. Flores. Anthony Kennedy wrote the majority opinion.

  9. 9
    amk says:

    @srv:

    Benen

    your concern duly noted.

  10. 10
    The Moar You Know says:

    If you walk into any store I happen to be in with a rifle, I’m going to assume you’re there to murder everyone you can and act accordingly.

  11. 11
    Belafon says:

    If you see someone in the store with a gun, tell them where the condom aisle is.

  12. 12
    Violet says:

    @⚽️ Martin: and then the 911 tapes are released with your name on and phone number on them and suddenly you’re the subject of harassment.

  13. 13
    Eric U. says:

    @pat: this is the sort of thing that has always made me wonder about my fellow males, seems like procreation is one of those things that is important enough to require planning. However, I have recently become aware that some men have an outlandishly strong desire to father children as an expression of manliness and power. ( Just as long as they don’t have to take care of the kids or support them.) This group seems to coincide pretty well with the people that think that large, smoke belching pickups and ammosexuality also are manifestations of power and manliness.

  14. 14
    Elizabelle says:

    Good for Target. Your credit card info may be at risk, but maybe less your person.

  15. 15
    japa21 says:

    This is weasel language. We respectfully request… IOW, we ask you not to, but we really won’t stop you. Don’t most open and concealed carry states allow for businesses to prohibit carry into their establishments?

    Since Illinois went to concealed carry, I am seeing a lot of those signs prohibiting guns on all sorts of establishments.

  16. 16

    @Violet: Bring it. I’m not going to give in to terrorists. That’s the only reason these guys open-carry. The Texas Open Carry Chili’s incident makes that clear enough. And I’m in California, and the police will arrest you for this shit. We have a very different attitude regarding the 2nd amendment here.

  17. 17
    Brian R. says:

    @The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:

    I will never understand the assholery and/or sheer pants-wetting paranoia necessary to bring one to wear a long gun into a store aisle to buy some fucking cheap clothes and itinerary.

    Well, then, you must not be a guy with an extremely small dick.

  18. 18
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Bringing firearms to Target creates an environment that is at odds with the family-friendly shopping and work experience we strive to create.

    Well, duh. Sashaying around with a firearm is an act of aggression, and acts of aggression are not well received. We are profoundly sorry that you have small dicks, but we cannot allow you to display your death-penii in our store, because a sensible precaution in such a situation would be to have armed guards all over the place, and this does indeed have a chilling effect on the average shopper. If you microdicks don’t get this, well, too motherfucking bad, assholes.

  19. 19
    hells littlest angel says:

    Not in our stores? No, more like, not in our stores, please. That’s like an engraved invitation to these shit-heads. What is Target going to do when they show up, have security throw them out?

  20. 20
    The Dangerman says:

    We currently have some serious nuts that are blocking the border patrol in Murrieta (SoCal) from bringing buses of illegal aliens into the Border Patrol Center for processing. While we are on topic of nuts, I’d give my right one if a Border Patrol higher up said, OK, you won’t let us do our jobs, we are moving the border patrol jobs OUT of Murrieta. Don’t know how much of an economic impact that would make, but these assholes need to be taught a severe lesson.

  21. 21
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Eric U.:

    However, I have recently become aware that some men have an outlandishly strong desire to father children as an expression of manliness and power.

    One of the objections to birth control is it gets in the way of the display, via lots of rugrats, of how macho the male is. Look at all these dwees…they’re a physical demonstration of what a stud I am! You can’t doubt my sexuality, can you, pencil neck?

  22. 22
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Belafon: They don’t use condoms. Condoms stop the flow of their seed which needs to be planted in order to sprout kids to show what studs they are.

  23. 23
    Betty Cracker says:

    @japa21: It is weasel language, but I don’t really blame Target for that; it’s understandable that they wouldn’t want to provoke a showdown with armed assholes who have already displayed poor judgment. As to your question, I’m no lawyer, but I would think that yes, companies have the right to regulate armed entry into their private property.

  24. 24
    WaterGirl says:

    Interesting. Earlier this week I had read that a Target manager had called the police (or some such thing) on moms with babies and strollers who were peacefully protesting open carry at Target.

  25. 25
    Eric U. says:

    @hells littlest angel: I can’t imagine Target asking their hourly employees to ask these nutcases to leave. I think ammosexuals are mostly walmart shoppers anyway

  26. 26
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @srv: It’s bullshit. They’re calling old people on land lines. There are a lot of people who are not old enough to remember when the shitty grade Z movie star slept through his second term.

  27. 27
    Belafon says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: I was attempting to joke about them with their guns. Obviously I failed.

  28. 28
    C.V. Danes says:

    If Target were closely held, then perhaps the owners could tie this to their religious beliefs. But whatever, good for them on making this stand.

  29. 29
    pat says:

    @Eric U.:

    Well that explains a lot. Bet they vote republican too.

  30. 30
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @japa21: Actually, the weasel words are necessary if any jurisdiction doesn’t permit business to forbid weapons. In areas that allow a business to forbid, they are doing so. In areas that don’t, they are asking nicely.

  31. 31
    Belafon says:

    @AliceBlue: The wikipedia entry is definitely interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C....._v._Flores. An excerpt:

    The Court, in an opinion by Justice Anthony Kennedy, struck down RFRA as an unconstitutional use of Congress’s enforcement powers. The Court held that it holds the sole power to define the substantive rights guaranteed by the Fourteenth Amendment—a definition to which Congress may not add and from which it may not subtract.

    It would be great if a lawyer could actually read the opinion and see what it says.

  32. 32
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @AliceBlue: You expect the five asshole Roman Catholic justices to be intellectually honest or consistent?

  33. 33
    WaterGirl says:

    @japa21: I am seeing those, too. Just last week saw the gun with a circle and a line through it at the yoga place and the dermatologist.

  34. 34
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: If they are making such an assertion (that is, not allowing private property owners to establish their own policy on open carry on their property), they are, in effect, committing a taking against private property rights that are supposed to be sacred in the minds of wingtards.

    Well, it’s another example of four legs good, two legs better.

  35. 35
    beergoggles says:

    Didn’t Target boot Moms Demand Action from their premises when they did a stroller gathering after the guntards did their open carry jaunt into the store?

    Yeah fuck Target again.

  36. 36
    WaterGirl says:

    @hells littlest angel: If you can have signs up that say “No shirt, no shoes, no service” why can’t Target say “No guns”.

  37. 37
    scav says:

    @WaterGirl: Well, beyond the timing and scale issues, theirs isn’t really a principled position taken over guns, it’s one decided more on the basis of market demographics, brand image and expected return. In cases where women with babies are interfering with sales or PR they’d likely be hustled off just as politely. Still, it could be a feather indicating where the mass of public opinion is.

  38. 38
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @srv: Where is that poll from? The Weekly Standard? I would need to see the racial/political breakdown of respondents to take it seriously. I must be living in a blue state la la land but I cannot imagine that there are a significant portion of the population who would rank President Obama as the worst President ever — especially after we went through 8 long years of Bush the Younger. Amazing. Did the poll detail what President Obama has done which makes him the worst President ever?

  39. 39
    WaterGirl says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Reagan did a lot of damage while sleeping through his second term.

  40. 40

    @The Dangerman: I’m not too worried about them. These guys haven’t ramped up yet, and there are a lot more immigration reform supporters here willing to get out there.

  41. 41
    MomSense says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Asshole governor from Maine is asshole. Republicans lost their minds in 2009. This is no longer the party of Bill Cohen or Margaret Chase Smith.

  42. 42
    Eric U. says:

    someone dropped his gun at the local walmart and it went off, injuring the parking lot pavement. So at least nobody got hurt. The police shut down the parking lot for 2 hours to investigate. That must have cut into walmart’s profits that day. It could easily have led to injuries or even fatalities. Judging from news stories, there are somewhere around 50 such incidents in the U.S. weekly. This is the sort of thing that I have always been worried about. I’m a lot less worried about mass shootings. The legal encouragement to have people carry their guns around with them seems destined to increase this accident rate. Stupid people with dangerous weapons, what could go wrong?

  43. 43
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Belafon: These guys are like all wingtards…unable to laugh at themselves. The reaction would probably be to violate every known rule of firearm safety and point the fucking thing at you for daring to note how tiny their dicks are.

  44. 44
    WaterGirl says:

    never mind.

  45. 45
    Glocksman says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    It depends upon the state in question.
    Generally, ‘no firearms allowed’ signs mean that the only thing the store can do initially is ask you to leave if they know (I’m a believer in ‘concealed means concealed carry) that you’re carrying.

    If you refuse, then it becomes trespassing and the cops can be called.

    Of course there are some premises where the act of carrying a gun concealed or open is a crime, such as hospitals, court buildings, etc.

    Interestingly enough, several states have prohibited employers from firing employees who have firearms in their car.
    They can prohibit you from carrying, but they can’t do a thing if you leave it in the car during working hours.

  46. 46
    Someguy says:

    @⚽️ Martin: Seriously, if you see someone with a gun, not obviously a police officer, call 911. It’s your right to do so.

    Indeed. With a little luck you can goad the cops into shooting somebody who is dangerous or otherwise probably shouldn’t be swimming in the gene pool. They could be a terrawrist, you know.

  47. 47
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    The RFRA was passed in reaction to Fat Tony declaring that some religious beliefs are trumped by his problems with their sacraments.

  48. 48
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Patricia Kayden: I took a quick look at the poll, and IIRC, something like 47% said Obama was the worst president. Not too surprising since that’s close to the percentage of Americans who describe themselves as Republicans or conservatives. Of course they think Obama is the devil; Fox News tells them so 24/7. The Dems / liberals probably split their votes among GWB, Reagan and Nixon.

  49. 49
    Ash Can says:

    @Belafon: If I see someone in a store (or restaurant or bank or whatever) with a gun, and they’re not a uniformed or otherwise identifiable law enforcement professional, I’m getting the sweet holy fucking hell out of there. Then, once I’m a safe distance away, I’ll call or otherwise inform the management why I left abruptly and won’t be returning to their establishment anytime in the foreseeable future.

  50. 50
    Bulworth says:

    This is a complicated issue, but it boils down to a simple belief: Bringing firearms to Target creates an environment that is at odds with the family-friendly shopping and work experience we strive to create.

    [wingnut]BUT moar gunz is totally family-friendly keep everyone SAFER!!!!!!111[/wingnut]

  51. 51
    Citizen Alan says:

    @Belafon:

    City of Boerne struck down the RFRA to the extent that it purported to limit state laws that might infringe religious freedom. Congress can legislatively limit its own powers in that area, but it cannot force states to do more than the 14th Amendment requires. Boerne involved a Texas state zoning restriction.

  52. 52
    Eric U. says:

    @Betty Cracker: well, Dems have kinda forgotten Reagan, and they split their votes between Nixon and Bush the lesser. I think I would have to say that Nixon and GWB were worse than Reagan, but I’m persuadable. Nixon doesn’t get enough credit for the open criminality of his administration, I guess I would have to go with him.

  53. 53
    JPL says:

    @AliceBlue: There were no lady parts discussed in that suit.

  54. 54
    Glocksman says:

    @scav:

    True.
    I’d be more inclined to call it a principled stand if it were Dick’s (heh) Sporting Goods, Gander Mountain, or Cabela’s doing the same thing.

    The open carry assholes probably normally never go to Target anyway.

  55. 55
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @AliceBlue: @Belafon: Flores basically says that RFRA does not apply to the states.

  56. 56
    scav says:

    Yah know, maybe all we really need is a form of birth control that is a lot of necessarily reeeeeeeeaaaaaaaallllllyyyyyyy teeny guns going it alone against the invading hoards of aliens spilling over the border and attempting to implant anchor babies. Throw in a really teeny lawn chairs and molecular flag tattoos and it might become an inassailable right.

  57. 57
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Which, in essence, nullified exactly what the RFRA was trying to address.

  58. 58
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Eric U.: Nixon was openly criminal, but I’d argue Reagan did more long-term damage by firmly planting “the government is the enemy” meme in the heads of the gullible and demonstrating to subsequent generations of wingnut pols that it was possible to get away with being a spendthrift and a deficit scold.

  59. 59
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @scav: Needs hoverrounds.

  60. 60
    Belafon says:

    @Citizen Alan:
    @Omnes:
    Thanks.

  61. 61
    Belafon says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Yet, somehow, left the law in tact so they could use it against the US government.

  62. 62
    Berial says:

    I think this guy has a pretty good idea on how the public should respond to the open carry ‘demonstrations’.

    He basically suggests that you put down what ever you were doing and leave. Don’t pay for meals, don’t let your haircut continue, simply leave as fast as possible. The carry people want attention, give it to them, by leaving the area.

  63. 63
    FlyingToaster says:

    @WaterGirl:
    @beergoggles:

    Fortunately, the cops weren’t called. But Target does have a (seemingly nationwide) “No Protests Around US” policy.

    The moms should not carry signs, just wear the same t-shirts (no words, just a slash through a silhouetted AK) and shop. A hundred at a time, or so, as a flash mob. As soon as they encounter some jackass with a firearm, text the others and abandon their shopping and walk out en masse. Call the store from the car and let them know why they walked out.

    In Massachusetts, you’d better be wearing a uniform if you’re carrying a firearm into a retail establishment.

  64. 64
    beltane says:

    @Berial: Very good idea. Businesses can either cater to open-carry weirdos or they can cater to customers. Their choice.

  65. 65
    scav says:

    @Glocksman: Well, a lot of gun shows don’t allow loaded carry for similar reasons, aka we don’t want to have to pay in cash or publicity for the consequences of inevitable whoops moments. lifted from here

    Q: Can I carry a loaded gun in the gun show? I have a Concealed Carry Permit.
    A: We respectfully request that you do not bring any loaded firearm into the gun show. Safety is our Number One Priority, and a safe environment in the show can only be maintained if there are no loaded guns in the show.

  66. 66
    Belafon says:

    @scav: I think every business ought to have that posted in their window.

  67. 67
    JPL says:

    The only shopping that I’ve done since the guns every where law went into effect yesterday, was to Publix and Pike’s nursery. I need a few items from home depot but that’s going to wait until another day. I assume that if someone is carrying, it would be home depot.

    Personally I would support only open carry. I want to know when I could be in danger.

  68. 68

    @Belafon: How can anyone tell if it’s loaded or not? The assumption when handling a gun is to assume every gun is loaded. The assumption for everyone around a gun is the same – assume it’s loaded.

  69. 69
    chopper says:

    @Berial:

    that’s basically what i do already. i see a gun, i high-tail it out of there. anybody who is crazy enough to open-carry a loaded firearm into a fucking target is precisely the sort of guy i don’t want to be around. it’s natures way of saying ‘beware’.

    what i will do is further go to the manager on the way out and let them know that i just left an entire cart full of shit i was totes going to buy behind because of some gun nut.

  70. 70

    Meanwhile in the “liberal” NYT, there is a magazine article fluffing the latest GOP rebranding effort, written by Sam Tanenhaus. Same toxic methanol in new fancy bottle. There is also a Vogue type posed photo but with conservative “thinkers” instead of actors.

  71. 71
    Betty Cracker says:

    @JPL:

    Personally I would support only open carry. I want to know when I could be in danger.

    That’s a fair point. In FL, there are more than a million concealed carry permits, IIRC. I’m sure I’m passing armed people in the grocery store or whatnot all the time; I just don’t know it. It might be preferable to know it so I could take appropriate action, i.e., leave.

  72. 72
    shelley says:

    With the US out of the World Cup, who are you rooting for now?

  73. 73
    The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    I’ve said this before, it really does feel like the GOP just outright owns this entire fucking country at this point and that there’s nothing we can really do about it anymore.

  74. 74
    The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik says:

    @shelley:

    Costa Rica.

    Underdogs ahoy.

  75. 75
    SatanicPanic says:

    @srv: 33% not that much more than 27%

  76. 76
    scav says:

    @shelley: is monogamy required? oh dear, I have really been doing it wrong.

  77. 77

    @The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik: I am not willing to give up that easily. Their movement is doomed and in death throes, they are desperate, and the constant rebranding means no one wants their shitty product.

  78. 78
    Patrick says:

    @The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:

    People can vote. A lot of people didn’t vote in 2010, allowing the Republicans to take House, which helped defeat any type of relevant gun legislation for example. Elections have consequences.

  79. 79
    shelley says:

    Costa Rica.

    Brian Lehrer agrees with you

  80. 80
    Patrick says:

    @The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:

    People can vote. A lot of people didn’t vote in 2010, allowing the Republicans to take House, which helped defeat any type of relevant gun legislation for example. Elections have consequences.

  81. 81
    Trollhattan says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    I’d request every supermarket manager to stock canned hams at the entry, so you can grab one to carry around whilst you shop. A swift right cross with a 5# canned ham will quickly dispatch an obvious threat to your safety who has a Glock tucked into his tighty whities. Stand Your Aisle!

  82. 82
    Betty Cracker says:

    @shelley: I don’t really care that much, but I’m half-assed rooting for the Netherlands. For no particular reason.

  83. 83
    Belafon says:

    @⚽️ Martin: If I remember correctly, when you try to walk into a gun show with a gun, someone checks it at the entrance, or at least they did at the one I went to recently. Have everyone with a gun be required to go to customer service to have it checked.

    I don’t want them in the stores either. But I would not be surprised if Texas eventually passes a right to carry them into businesses law.

  84. 84
    Violet says:

    @Glocksman:

    The open carry assholes probably normally never go to Target anyway.

    Open carry assholes go to Target all the time. They’re primarily white suburban and ex-urban white residents who take full advantage of all the safety and security and road access and other amenities provided by the larger community they live in. They love places like chain restaurants and big box stores. It’s how they feed their family and keep their homes stocked with necessities. They are exactly the type of people who go to Target all the time.

  85. 85
    Sly says:

    I worked for a Target for about 2 months years and years ago while between jobs, so I’ll say this: every single fucking day of those two months, I wanted to take a gun into the store. It’s like someone combined the most mindless elements of Madison Avenue culture with the rampant backstabbing of the Italian Parliament, vomited a ton of vapid corporate gibberish onto it for garnish, and served it up cold on a paper plate manufactured by Bengali children earning 10 cents an hour.

  86. 86
    Trollhattan says:

    @⚽️ Martin:
    Don’t they run a cable tie through the chamber, or somesuch to render it inoperable? Since I’ll never attend one, I’m only imagining how one would run gun shows in a manner such that they’d survive their workdays.

    We used to have an annual “Gun and Doll” show here. Was always boggled over the pairing.

  87. 87

    On further observation I have realized that the Vogue like photo, is trying to emulate the famous painting about the signing of the Declaration of Independence. Papers strewn over the floor, people around a table etc., etc.,

  88. 88
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Trollhattan: A well-lobbed 16-oz. canned Dak Ham could take out just about anyone. I was in fear for my life, officer!

  89. 89
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Violet: Real Americans go to Walmart. Target is for urban elites. (making a guess at what Ann Coulter’s next column will be)

  90. 90
    NotMax says:

    Loathe the cheapening of meaning of that corporate mush speak.

    “Guests.” Phooey on that. They’re (we’re) customers. Or shoppers, if one must have an alternate term.

  91. 91
    beth says:

    @Violet: wasn’t zimmerman on his way to Target the night he shot Travon Martin? Anyway I cancelled my Target card and let them know it was because they allowed guns in their stores. Hopefully others did the same. This is a good step.

  92. 92

    If Target is terrible and WalMart is woeful where does one get their soap and shampoo and toothpaste from? Make it themselves?

  93. 93
    Violet says:

    @SatanicPanic: That’s how Target differentiates itself with its branding. The reality is, Real Murkins go to Target all the time. The Real Murkins who live in suburbs and exurbs anyway. the Real Murkins in small towns go to Wal-Mart because it’s the only thing available.

  94. 94
    beth says:

    @The Dangerman: Re those people blocking the immigration buses: isn’t it funny how old white teabaggers can protest in the street and block traffic and nothing happens? If they were dirty OWS hippies they’d be pepper sprayed and arrested.

  95. 95
    burnspbesq says:

    @pat:

    I posted something on the Hobby Lobby thread asking why MEN who are potential FATHERS are not in the streets demanding effective birth control for their wives and girl friends.

    I won’t presume to speak for anyone else. However, your comment is based on a fallacious view of the effect of the decision.

    Hobby Lobby Isn’t about access to contraceptives; it’s about who pays. As soon as HHS revises the regulations (which shouldn’t take more than a week, and they can plausibly say this is an emergency, and thereby bypass the Administrative Procedure Act’s notice-and-comment process and make the change effective as soon as the revisions are published in the Federal Register), any female employee of Hobby Lobby (if any remain) will get her prescriptions filled for free.

  96. 96
    Betty Cracker says:

    @burnspbesq: Free to the employee, but paid for by the government?

  97. 97
    opiejeanne says:

    @scav: The women who were hustled off the property were in San Antonio, Texas.

  98. 98
    Violet says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: You could join the movement to go soap- and shampoo-free. Apparently it takes a week or so but then your skin and hair feel amazing. People take baths or showers so they rinse off but don’t use products.

  99. 99

    @Violet: I think I will pass, I am not really a kitteh and I do like showers and baths with soap and shampoo.

  100. 100
    burnspbesq says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Directly paid for by the insurer or TPA. Ultimately, yeah, paid for by all of us.

    Ironic that a decision that most of the left professes to despise is, in its second-order effects, a small step toward single-payer.

  101. 101
    The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik says:

    @Patrick:

    I’m still going to vote, it’s the least I can do. It’s just any attempts I’ve had trying to convince people toward what we discuss here, trying to drag the pendulum leftward keeps having a disastrous backfire effect and all I see is people hitching their stars harder onto the GOP out of spite for ‘libs’ and ‘America haters’ and ‘gun grabbers’, and I’m just left feeling like there’s no way to pull the pendulum back anymore.

  102. 102
    Patrick says:

    @beth:

    It reminds me of Cliven Bundy who hasn’t been forced to pay fees he rightly owes to the government for over 20 years, while at the same time some poor African-American could be in prison for years for drug possession.

  103. 103
    burnspbesq says:

    @AliceBlue:

    I don’t know how to do the link thing-y, but apparently the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993–the law that the five Justices relied on in the Hobby Lobby case-was declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in 1997. City of Boerne vs. Flores. Anthony Kennedy wrote the majority opinion.

    Nice try, but the actual holding in Boerne was much narrower than your comment suggests, and in any event Boerne Was mooted by Congress when it passed the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act.

  104. 104
    Paul in KY says:

    @shelley: Costa Rica & Columbia.

  105. 105
    beth says:

    @burnspbesq: but can’t someone sue claiming the birth control is an abortificient and violates the Hyde Act (or whatever keeps govt from paying for abortions). Wouldn’t that argument be accepted by this Supreme Court?

  106. 106
    scav says:

    @opiejeanne: Well there’s another factor to consider: the prejudice of individual managers can also bleed through. Although in this specific instance, there does seem to be a policy that all activity in the area controlled by the Targ must be brand-enhancing. You will be Ad-similated.

  107. 107
    Patrick says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Free to the employee, but paid for by the government?

    Paid for by the government, ie paid for by all of us. That also would mean that the owners of Hobby Lobby still are paying for this. Doesn’t that still mean that in THEIR world they still go to hell or something like that? What have they actually won?

  108. 108
    Violet says:

    @Paul in KY: It’s Colombia with an “o”. Not Columbia. I’m pulling for them too, except they’re playing Brazil next and I would like to see the host country go one more round. But there’s that lovely James. Sigh. I hope it’s a good game.

  109. 109
    Patrick says:

    @The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:

    Nothing will change until people on the left unite, get their own and bigger megaphone (the right have FoxNews), start voting in droves like the tea baggers, engage in local politics as Howard Dean suggested etc etc.

  110. 110
    SatanicPanic says:

    @burnspbesq: I was taunting conservatives with this- “You know you’re just celebrating the fact that instead of Hobby Lobby paying, it’s your TAX DOLLARS that will be paying for it now”. This was mostly met with denial

  111. 111
    opiejeanne says:

    @JPL: There is an asshole who has a pickup I used to see all the time at Home Depot, with a bumper sticker that reads: “Thank God for snipers”, among others that are far worse. I can’t remember the others but that one is the mildest of the collection. I have wondered what this jerk looks like, have never spotted him with the truck. I didn’t see it for about a year, thought he’d moved on, but then noticed it last week at the grocery store.

    What makes people this angry with the world?

  112. 112
    srv says:

    @Sly:

    It’s like someone combined the most mindless elements of Madison Avenue culture with the rampant backstabbing of the Italian Parliament, vomited a ton of vapid corporate gibberish onto it for garnish, and served it up cold on a paper plate manufactured by Bengali children earning 10 cents an hour.

    I have nominated you for Poet Laureate of Targét.

  113. 113
    Eric U. says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: I almost always get my shampoo and soap at the grocery store. Target might be cheaper, but it’s a 20 mile round trip for me so it’s not economic anyway. I’m pretty sure that walmart is more expensive than my grocery store, but I haven’t been into one for 3 years. I left the store that time feeling that I had been robbed. Prices were 3 times what I would have paid at Amazon. My son had cleaned all the chargers and cables out of my car and I wanted to listen to music and charge my cellphone on a trip.

  114. 114
    Ben Cisco says:

    Just had this forwarded to me re: Lobby Hobby.

  115. 115
    Violet says:

    @beth: Hey, my closely held religious belief is that the little blue pills used by older men to assist in inflating their limp members are abortifacients and therefore must not be covered by health insurance.

  116. 116
    opiejeanne says:

    @Trollhattan: That doll show’s so the little ladies have somethin’ to do whilst the menfolks is playin’ with the purty guns.

  117. 117
    opiejeanne says:

    @Ben Cisco: *Snicker*

    Sometimes it’s worth it to get banned.

  118. 118
    PurpleGirl says:

    @The Dangerman: I can’t estimate what the economic impact would be but there would be one. (1) There are locals hired as border patrol agents — Can they move to another location? (2) There could be civilians who work at the processing center — Can they move to a new location? (3) These employees buy lunch and other goods in the local area — Do local businesses really want to lose those customers.

    Wasn’t it Virginia that banned illegals or undocumented people from either owning a business or doing business with local merchants? After the first year, was economic activity way down in some areas as business owners — small shopkeepers like beauty palors and small grocery stores — closed and moved away.

  119. 119
    opiejeanne says:

    @PurpleGirl: I thought that was Georgia, and there was no one to pick their peaches and other crops. What a surprise.

  120. 120
    Violet says:

    @Ben Cisco: If they’d asked about “Build it yourself IED kits” they’d no doubt have no problem. Probably have those in stock.

  121. 121
  122. 122
    Glocksman says:

    @Trollhattan:

    All of the ones I’ve attended had an off duty cop they hired at the entrance who verified your firearms were unloaded and then ran a large zip tie through the cylinder or action to render it inoperable.

    The truly disturbing thing for me about the gun shows I’ve been to isn’t the guns, it’s the proliferation of white nationalist/racist/klan/survivalist literature that’s available from some vendors.

    Years ago just to see what the fuss was about, I bought a copy of The Turner Diaries at a local gunshow.
    The book lived down to its reputation.

  123. 123
    PurpleGirl says:

    @scav: Hell, the NRA doesn’t allow its members to bring in a gun to their offices or their national conventions.

  124. 124
    cmorenc says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Nixon was openly criminal, but I’d argue Reagan did more long-term damage by firmly planting “the government is the enemy” meme in the heads of the gullible

    On the domestic side, aside from implementing a regressive approach to civil rights and civil liberties, Nixon otherwise had a surprising progressive streak – many of our key environmental laws were passed (and the EPA founded) during his administration, with its support. Nixon also viewed favorably a precursor to the idea of a living wage (the negative income tax). I’m not forgiving Nixon here for all the damage he did to the country elsewhere, including especially the cynical “Southern Strategy” that has borne so many terrible long-term consequences for the country, but IMHO Nixon did far less lasting damage than Reagan and actually made some lasting hugely valuable contributions to the country, whereas Reagan has absolutely zip for + side accomplishments and laid the foundation for long-term GOP destructive nihilism.

    HAD GERALD FORD managed to squeak out a win against Jimmy Carter in 1976 and instead have wound up with the turd in his pocket for the stagflating economic conditions (and probably the Iran hostage crisis as well) – it’s possible Reagan might still have won the 1980 GOP nomination, but he would have run against forbiddingly difficult headwinds in the general election and a decisive majority of the electorate would have been primed for a Kennedy (Ted) restoration to have a go at digging the country out of the ditch. The last 30 years would have been light-years different, and we’d likely have had fundamental reform of the health insurance system (or even some form of universal health insurance) thirty years ago. And SCOTUS would not have been full of right-wing asshats during that period.

  125. 125
    pat says:

    @burnspbesq:

    My comment refers more broadly to every single news report etc. The fact that the women are not doing this all alone, but have partners who are never mentioned. It is weird. Yeah, the sluts want consequence-free sex, well in most cases I would imagine, so do their partners. Or be paying for the oops for the next 18 years.

    My point is that contraception should be seen as something that benefits everyone. Sigh.

  126. 126
    Paul in KY says:

    @Violet: The pendant hoisted by his own pentard!

  127. 127
    PurpleGirl says:

    @opiejeanne: Could be, I decided not to take the time to double check. Point being, all those people who they didn’t want living in their area did important economic activity.

  128. 128
    burnspbesq says:

    @beth:

    but can’t someone sue claiming the birth control is an abortificient and violates the Hyde Act (or whatever keeps govt from paying for abortions).

    Sure, you could allege that in a complaint, and you probably wouldn’t be subject to Rule 11 sanctions, because you can plausibly argue that it’s not frivolous. Good luck proving it..There’s an interesting post at LGM about the difference between what’s in the FDA labeling for IUDs and morning-after pills and what the current science actually shows.

    Wouldn’t that argument be accepted by this Supreme Court?

    Not if the defense lawyers and the lower courts do their jobs properly.

    You get all the appropriate science into evidence, by way of expert testimony, at trial. You make sure you get good findings of fact in the District Court opinion.

    Then, when you win and the lunatics appeal, you make the appellate case about whether the District Court’s findings of fact were clearly erroneous, which they won’t have been.

    Now, when you win in the circuit, what’s the “Questions Presented” section of the lunatics’ petition for cert going to look like, that’s going to get the attention of four Justices?

  129. 129
    JCT says:

    @Eric U.: Indeed – there is even such a thing as a “Walmart Walk” – apparently a rite of passage for ammosexuals with a new CCW. With maps and everything. Profoundly infantile.

  130. 130
    Morzer says:

    @pat:

    There are plenty of angry conservative men out there who will argue (and do argue) that they shouldn’t have to pay for being trapped by a welfare-seeking “slut”. Lots of deadbeat dads among the teabaggers – for example, Joe Walsh.

  131. 131
    Mayken says:

    @AliceBlue: Wait, what? So… what does that mean? How can they rely on this for setting precedent then?
    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

  132. 132
    beth says:

    @burnspbesq: thank you.

  133. 133
    Morzer says:

    @PurpleGirl:

    That was Georgia and they cost themselves a fortune in unpicked fruit and vegetables. Not entirely coincidentally. Georgia’s reasonably likely to go a purply blue in the not-so-distant future.

  134. 134
    Glocksman says:

    @JCT:

    I haven’t heard of a ‘Walmart Walk’, but Walmart does sell firearms and ammunition while Target does not.
    I don’t even own a centerfire firearm anymore*, but Wally World used to have good deals on the Winchester white box generic practice ammo.

    That said, even my two best friends who are zealous 2A supporters agree that the open carry loons are, as one said, ‘hurting us badly’.

    *I’m considering buying a Ruger LCR or Smith Centennial in December with my mandatory overtime money.

  135. 135
    chopper says:

    @Patrick:

    if more and more closely-held corporations start going to the courts demanding to be relieved of the responsibility of providing coverage for their own pet issue, and in each case the gubbermint is able to say they can come up with a workaround, then over time the government is going to be taking on more and more coverage for people and employers are going to be taking on less and less. not really the end result the right-wingers had in mind.

    ironic, given that one basis of the ACA was to start the process of cutting health insurance from employment. HL could, in the end, give a big boost to the nationalization of healthcare.

  136. 136
    Patrick says:

    @chopper:

    Great way of looking at it. Hadn’t thought it that way. So maybe, indirectly, this was actually a good result…

  137. 137
    JCT says:

    @Glocksman: I used to pick up target ammo at Walmart (convenience factor) until the insanity and hoarding hit last year. I reload centerfire now. More than happy to avoid patronizing that store, quite frankly. Rimfire is a continuing problem.

    Yes – the 2A nuts I know immediately pointed out that the open carry nitwits with their long guns were going to screw things up. Duh. I am with Betty, I would prefer if the handgun guys had to open carry. I want to know who they are.

    I have an early Centennial, 640 – no lock, .38 only. A challenge to shoot – it bites!

  138. 138
    Glocksman says:

    @JCT:

    If you’ve got the original wood grips, change them out for a set of Uncle Mikes or Hogues.
    I sold off my Centennial that came with the Uncle Mikes and it was easily controllable even with +P 110 grain hollowpoints.

    I wish I hadn’t sold it, but I needed the money.

    Now my buddy’s .357 Centennial on the other hand actually hurt my hand to shoot with full charge .357 ammo.

  139. 139
    Fred Fnord says:

    @japa21: The weasel words are because if they REQUIRE it, and someone decides to come in with a weapon anyway, they have two recourses.

    One, they can call the police, hope that this does not make the man with the gun angry in the interim, and then ask the police to escort the man off the premises for trespassing, which the police may or may not do. (It is NOT the police’s job to enforce store policies, so depending on the laws, this may simply not fly.)

    Two, you can ask one of your (unarmed) employees to escort him out. Do you suppose any of them are paid enough to go confront armed people, unarmed, and tell them to leave?

    But even the former one has the potential to get the place shot up, and customers and employees killed in the bargain, if someone doesn’t like the fact that you called the cops when he hears the sirens.

    So no, you don’t ban people with guns, unless open carry is illegal per se. You just ask them nicely. Because freedom of speech is reserved for people who open carry guns.

  140. 140
    Glocksman says:

    @Fred Fnord:

    Unless the state or local jurisdiction has a law or ordinance giving violation of ‘no guns allowed’ signs the force of an automatic trespass, I believe that the gun carrier has to be asked to leave by store personnel before it’s legally considered trespassing.

    At that point, if the gun carrier refuses to leave then the cops can cite/arrest him for trespassing.

    I could be wrong, though.

    As I noted above a lot of states have laws that prohibit carry even for CCW holders in certain establishments such as hospitals, court and government buildings, etc.

    Violate those at your peril.

    When I used to carry, I never was asked to leave anywhere because my pistol was concealed in a Bianchi holster that secured the gun under either a coat or long sleeveless photographer’s vest.

    In fact, the only times I was ever asked about being armed was when I collected several speeding tickets in my younger days.
    The first question out of the cops mouths was inevitably ‘Are you carrying a gun?’ because I have a carry permit and they knew it before they left their cars.

    For my part I always left both hands on the wheel and answered honestly (no, except for one time).

  141. 141
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Glocksman: If you don’t mind my asking, what motivated you to carry a concealed weapon?

  142. 142
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @shelley: Deutschland Ũber Alles!

  143. 143
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Allez les Bleus!

  144. 144
    Mnemosyne says:

    @burnspbesq:

    any female employee of Hobby Lobby (if any remain) will get her prescriptions filled for free without additional charge per her insurance benefits.

    Fix’d. The whole “sluts are getting their pills for FREE!” meme is really pissing me off. Do people really not understand the concept of something being included in a single price? Even Disneyland hasn’t made you pay separately to ride the rides for decades now — it’s all included in the price.

    And, yes, it does piss me off that Hobby Lobby and its pals are mooching off MY TAX DOLLARS rather than paying for their own damn employee benefits.

  145. 145
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @srv: “Barack Obama is the worst president ever and Ronald Reagan is the best” is a long way of saying “I am Republican”.

  146. 146
    Hob says:

    @Berial: My problem with that piece is toward the end, where he assumes good faith on the part of the “demonstrators”: he says that they just don’t understand that people are afraid because people can’t discern their good intentions.

    Although there may be some well-intentioned but confused souls in that crowd, I think it’s more reasonable to assume that guys who dress and act like paramilitary thugs are well aware of how scary that is, and that if people flee a store when they show up, that’s a reaction that they enjoy.

    The PQED writer also says if you take his advice and leave without paying, the “demonstrators” will be stuck with the bill. I’m not sure how that’s supposed to work— the store owner politely asks these heavily armed thugs to pony up the money, and then what, throw them out if they don’t pay for stuff they didn’t buy?

  147. 147
    WaterGirl says:

    @Hob: I think the point is that the proprietor will lose money because no one will pay, and soon the proprietor will not allow armed people into the establishment because it’s costing the owner money.

  148. 148
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Patrick:

    Paid for by the government, ie paid for by all of us. That also would mean that the owners of Hobby Lobby still are paying for this. Doesn’t that still mean that in THEIR world they still go to hell or something like that? What have they actually won?

    The ability to sue again and get all government support for contraceptives removed?

  149. 149
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @burnspbesq:

    Hobby Lobby Isn’t about access to contraceptives; it’s about who pays. As soon as HHS revises the regulations (which shouldn’t take more than a week, and they can plausibly say this is an emergency, and thereby bypass the Administrative Procedure Act’s notice-and-comment process and make the change effective as soon as the revisions are published in the Federal Register), any female employee of Hobby Lobby (if any remain) will get her prescriptions filled for free.

    I’m sure they’ll do that. What happens if the Supreme Court rules for Little Sisters of the Poor? Then the next company that really wants to screw with its employees can just block the government coverage by refusing to fill out a form.

  150. 150
    Matt McIrvin says:

    …And, of course, this new form of contraceptive coverage goes away the instant a Republican administration takes office, unlike the previous, statutory version.

  151. 151
    Glocksman says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Sorry about being late to reply, but I usually carried when I worked until 3AM on weekends at a local bowling alley/buffet.

    The buffet closed at 9PM, but I bartended until 2:30AM, and it wasn’t the best of areas to be in.
    Luckily I never needed the gun.

    I also carried in direct violation of company policy when I had a part time job at a local convenience store on 3rd shift on weekends.

    Like I’ve said in other posts, if all they wanted was the money, they’re welcome to it and I’d even fill up the getaway car for them.
    If the robber ordered me to lay on the floor or go into the cooler on the other hand, the Centennial on my hip at least would have given me a chance.

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