Spenser Hall, at SB Nation:
… From one perspective, the United States lost a win last night, coughing up a late goal off a schoolboy blunder in the final splinters of a match the USMNT had won via a courageous comeback. Soccer and hockey both call this bug a feature: the capacity to hide hot, venomous, and sudden death in the midst of a seemingly harmless flow of events. One minute you’re on the snowmobile; the next, the snick-snicking of weaselly teeth clicking hungrily in the frozen night…
You might also look at it this way. This is by far the best, most consistent performance the United States has had at any World Cup to this point in group stage. For a good chunk of the Portugal game the United States actually passed the ball, controlled the game, and threatened consistently. Imagine that four years ago: consistent, flowing menace from the United States, a team known more for prayer volleys down the flanks and endless, hopeful crosses into the box. That was the United States last night, a neonate team still standing on wobbly fawn legs in a forest full of mature predators…
For so many reasons, it will not be easy or simple, but it’s not simple or easy for anyone. The most talented team in the world by reputation, Spain, is already out of the tourney. England’s gone. Italy have fewer points, and have already lost to Costa Rica, a team the United States considers a fair but equal opponent in CONCACAF play. Soccer’s only equality is cruelty, and prolonged exposure turns even the most self-respecting viewer into a masochistic gambler bent on playing the next hand. This game beats you into submission over a long enough span, and turns wins & losses at the whistle into the same intense, indispensable drug…
***********
Apart from telling me (a) how deeply wrong this person’s sorry opinions are; (b) that this whole ‘World Cup’ thing is an overrated distraction from the real world; (c) that I suck at finding topics & what has become of the real BJ front-pagers, huh?!?… what’s on the agenda for the evening?
redshirt
Halfback passes back to the fullback….
Fullback passes to the goalie…
Keeper clears to the striker….
Striker passes to the fullback…
Fullback passes to the halfback…
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@redshirt: Ever see epee fencing?
mdblanche
Why can’t Chuck Todd and Ed Henry tell us what they really think?
WereBear
It’s the future. And I say this as a non-sports fan.
muddy
Life is very bright tonight! My cat Ailill came home after being missing for over a week! I was sure he was gone forever, I had entirely accepted it. His life revolves around his 10pm can food and he missed 8 of them. He has lost quite a bit of weight, and bizarrely, his eyebrows. Maybe he rubbed them off trying to get out of someplace?
I went to all the neighbors and had them check their barns/sheds etc. The only one I couldn’t go to was the psycho neighbor who got an order of trespass against me because I tried to help their dog. I would not be surprised if they had him the whole time. I guess I’ll never know where he was.
He usually only gives a 3 second hug. You have to release on 3 or you’ll regret it. He let me hug him for several minutes when he first came in. The other cat is very angry with him, and is hissing and growling. This after being in a total decline over his lack.
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): En garde!
WereBear
Of course. This is exactly like Mom hugging the lost kid and then wanting to smack them for worrying everyone.
So glad you got him back!
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@mdblanche: They aren’t idiots; they just play them on TV?
lamh36
You betcha ass they “postponed” this bullshit. Go on ahead, and troll a Black Houston neighborhood…um hmm…
Open Carry Group to March Through Black Neighborhood
So they plan to mask the bullshit in the form of a “food drive”.
David Koch
@mdblanche: They did once
eta: and when Chuck slips up and pulls back the curtain the corporate media lackeys make his life miserable.
WaterGirl
@muddy: Oh, muddy, I am so so glad to hear this! I am finding it hard to type because my eyes have suddenly gotten blurry. So happy. Best thing all day!
carlweese
I was trying to figure out why you were quoting this except as an example of suckitude—until I got to the end of the post.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@efgoldman: This stage of the World Cup is like preliminary heats at a track meet. You don’t have to win; you just have to qualify for the next stage. You want to do well enough to move on to the next stage, but you don’t want to exhaust yourself or get injured.
lamh36
The First Transgender President
by BooMan
schrodinger's cat
@muddy: That is the best news I have heard today {{{{muddy}}}}
give him some skritches and hugs on my behalf.
muddy
@WaterGirl: The vet will be pleased with his waistline, that’s for sure. He actually has one now! Poor kitty.
gogol's wife
@muddy:
Hooray!
Anne Laurie
@muddy: Congratulations, this is great news & I needed some of that tonight!
As far your grumpypants’ missing eyebrows, the usual way cats lose vibrissae is burning them off — by getting too close to a hot exhaust pipe or radiator or candle. (One particularly dim-witted cat from my college days repeatedly lost his whiskers climbing on the gas stove to steal soup while it was heating.) Could Aillil have climbed up into a car’s engine compartment, or some kind of outbuilding with a motor running hot?
Heliopause
Jesus, the US has been playing this card since 1994. Or earlier. Really, it’s okay to be second division in a particular sport, it’s only a goddamned game. We lead the world in war and fast food, just accept that we’re perpetually 15-20 in soccer, and we’re only that good because the Empire stations its soldiers in soccer countries where they hook up with local women.
MattR
@redshirt: Now that we are through the obligatory Simpsons reference …
I think the US is gonna have a tough time recovering physically for the next game. I thought Bradley’s giveaway in the last seconds was the result of exhaustion and the team as a whole has had to do a lot of running in both games. Wouldn’t shock me to see a couple new faces in the starting lineup – maybe one of the central defenders, maybe start Yedlin for Bedoya and even Diskerud for Bradley (with Bradley coming on late to replace Jones who needs the rest and is on a yellow card).
@muddy: Happy news!!! So wonderful to here of a happy homecoming.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@lamh36: Jesus Christ. And these people have a death grip on our political system.
redshirt
@efgoldman: I made it all the way to collegiate soccer and I still have no interest in the sport. Who cares?
That said, I think America is so big and so powerful that we should be able to win the World Cup without even trying. We’ve had a full generation playing soccer – where’s our title?
dmsilev
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): “Gentlemen, Chicolini here may talk like an idiot, and look like an idiot, but don’t let that fool you: he really is an idiot. “
RobertDSC-Power Mac G5 Dual
The period that the Portuguese scored in, called stoppage time, is the worst thing about this sport. Once it’s eliminated, the game would be a zillion times better.
beltane
@muddy: My much mourned barn cat, Asia, once went missing for a week like that. When she returned, the whiskers on one side of her face were completely gone. She must have chased a mouse too deeply into a crevice somewhere and gotten stuck. She lived to a ripe old age for a mostly outdoor cat, and she always tended to disappear for a day or two at a time, particularly in late summer when she’d go on hunting sprees.
MazeDancer
@muddy:
Such beautiful news!! There are few feelings as grim and impossibly, flatteningly horrible as kitty who does not come home.
They often go in some place and get caught. A garage where someone goes out of town. Under a house and the bilco doors get shut.
So happy your kitty returned. Just wonderful!
gbear
@lamh36: MANY years ago when Norm Coleman was mayor of St. Paul, he had a transgendered person as one of his top aides. It was no secret as she was well known when she was still male. Of course, she was a total asshole – just like Norm.
WaterGirl
@muddy: Do you think he might have been stuck somewhere and couldn’t get out until he got skinnier??
Edit: my kitty soulmate, who died nearly 5 years ago, got out once. He was missing for 2 nights of terrible thunderstorms. I looked everywhere, I went farm to farm and finally after 2 days a totally soaked and bedraggled kitty showed up after I had given up hope. I held my cold, soaking wet kitty in my arms for a very long time. So glad yours came home.
muddy
I was so desperate I was going all around everyone’s shrubbery in the neighborhood, sniffing for remains. I’d been leaving the cellar door open so he could come in if he were able, and a little while ago I hear a bunch of cat crying in the kitchen. I thought it was Diarmuid. In the dark I didn’t initially realize it was Ailill because he had the slim shape. And then I saw the flashes of white on him, omg omg omg! They probably heard me shrieking in the next town.
Comrade Dread
As a father, I will have to watch many, many soccer games in my future, and it is only because of the love for my little girl and my pride at watching her play that I will ever willingly subject myself to that torture.
mdblanche
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): As a firm believer in Hanlon’s razor, things like this make me see the Village less as waste-of-space incompetents and more as actively malicious co-conspirators.
@David Koch: And these don’t help either.
WaterGirl
@muddy: Do you have the ability to keep him in the house now? Or is he an outdoor kitty?
scav
@Heliopause: what is it, America’s youth is its oldest tradition?
muddy
@WaterGirl: I personally think the evil neighbor had him in their garage.
Anoniminous
Is it worth paying to see “Edge of Tomorrow” in the theater or can I wait until it hits the $10 discount rack at the local Hastings?
ETA: @muddy:
Good to hear!!
WaterGirl
@muddy: That’s what I’m afraid of, too. Bastards! That’s why I asked if you can keep him in the house. Do not give those awful people a second crack at him.
Baud
@Comrade Dread:
I bet she’s cute when she flops.
scav
@Comrade Dread: Honestly, the same could be said of their birthday parties.
currants
WOOT! Love your posts, Anne Laurie–I get to read things I otherwise wouldn’t discover. Thanks!
And @muddy: Wonderful!
SiubhanDuinne
Holy fuck, I am just listening to Lawrence O’Donnell. I had no idea about his terrible accident or its aftermath. Shee-yit.
I am just stunned.
muddy
@WaterGirl: They were indoor/outdoor. Diarmuid has about 3 acres around here that he considers his. Not much of that is my property. But Ailill has always been kind of agoraphobic, he rarely went outdoors and stuck right next to the house (looking up at the sky in cringing horror). He’s 8, but this year he really came out of his shell, and was hunting chipmunks, and going a little further from the house (nowhere near as far as his brother). He had already lost 3# this spring just from that. He had been 17+ lbs, he was 14 lbs right before he went missing. Now he is a svelt 12.5 lbs.
Since he was gone I put the real screen door back on, I had been using a magnet screen. I’m going to try and keep them in. We’ll see how it goes. Once they are used to going out they get pretty militant about it. Meanwhile the dogs are annoyed they have to ask to go in and out now.
srv
IDK about all you losers, but I’ve been playing American Pie non-stop since DougJ’s death.
lamh36
@Anoniminous: I’ve seen it and I totally think Edge of Tomorrow is really good. It def deserves to be seen on the big screen.
I’ve been telling people that it’s a shame that it hasn’t done better domestic business. I blame Tom Cruise for that. The bad thing is that TC is awesome in this, dare I say it’s the best I’ve sen him do in a long time. And Emily Blunt is freakin’ awesome!
Tripod
@efgoldman:
Go back to sleep grandpa.
Schlemizel
@redshirt:
Won’t happen until American kids are signing deals for $250 million over 10 years and doing Old Spice and Car commercials.
Right now soccer is the game of suburban kids who see a good life outside the risk of pro sports. When the inner city kids see it as the jackpot life they see in basketball and football 10s of thousands of them will throw themselves into it with a commitment the suburban kids don’t. Till then is the US fields a cup worthy team they will have names that raise the hackles of our teabagging brothers and sisters because MESSICANS!
beltane
@Comrade Dread: There is no torture worse than watching little league games several times a week. At least with soccer there’s constant movement and a time limit. I was so happy when my youngest said he had no interest in baseball.
WaterGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: I have no idea what you are talking about. (not intended in a mean way) What happened?
cmorenc
@RobertDSC-Power Mac G5 Dual:
Oh, no it wouldn’t. For whatever the origin was of adding “stoppage time” for injuries or other excessive amount of time lost from normal play – instead of actually stopping the clock, it serves as soccer’s version of a “last play” rule (e.g. even after 0:00 a last play in pointy football continues until the player is down; game can’t end on defensive penalty) Stoppage time also reinforces the fundamental nature of soccer as a game with as much continuous flow as possible and as minimal interruptions as possible – no formal time-outs, very limited substitution (at international level – 3 per side in competitive play), minimal actual coach intervention possible during ongoing game – game is for the players.
The rest of the world understands and accepts “stoppage time” – the expected amount, in whole minutes, of which is signaled by the center referee near the end of regulation (and put on a sign-board at big competitions) – and has no problem with it, even in countries where institutions and governments are distrusted as corrupt. By contrast, American high school and college soccer use an exact count-down clock rather than stoppage, and often have stultifyingly boring, anticlimactic last 30 seconds of play. IMHO if you don’t understand why stoppage time is fundamentally compatible with the game, you don’t quite understand the game itself.
Schlemizel
@gbear:
I didn’t know that! I met Normy once when he was a “Wellstone Democrat”. I thought he was a creepy dick. I told my wife that he was no a guy I would want to vote for. He didn’t disappoint me.
redshirt
@Schlemizel: At the World Cup level you’d think nationalism would be enough to motivate a team of winners.
KG
As the Men In Blazers say: Soccer, America’s Game of the Future, since 1974.
Soccer will be popular here when (if) the MLS becomes one of the premier leagues in the world. I don’t think American fans will care enough to watch a second rate league, nor will they watch European leagues that they know nothing about. The only way MLS becomes a premier league is if they get better players, which means more money. As long as young athletes look at the money (or scholarship opportunities) that come with college football, college basketball, college or minor league baseball as better than soccer, soccer us destined to be a second teir sport in this country.
First step is parlaying the enthusiasm for the national team into interest in the MLS
WaterGirl
@muddy: Just give the dogs treats when they ask to come back in, and surely they will get over it!
I remember now what you had said about your kitty just starting to go outside this year. I am a nonviolent person, but if someone ever did something deliberate to hurt my guys I think I would lose it. It would not be pretty.
redshirt
@cmorenc: This is why soccer sucks, right here.
Schlemizel
@beltane:
I actually get a kick out of kid baseball. Used to watch games before I had kids playing. Kids with do some amazing things because they don’t know what is possible. you will see a kid make the most amazing pick up & throw out, Brooks Robinson level & then boot the simplest grounder. Its fun.
low-tech cyclist
@muddy: Glad to hear your cat’s back!
Now, a cat-related bleg: we’ve got one in central FL (I-4 corridor) that needs a home. Belonged to my wife’s grandmother, who is now permanently in a nursing home.
The cat is a female, spayed, indoor cat, 6-7 years old. Almost current on shots.
This cat is probably not good around children or other pets, having been the sole pet of a very old woman. She’s pretty aloof with us when we come down there, but she was affectionate with Grandma.
We’re 800 miles north, in the DC area, and we can’t take the cat anyway: we’ve got 3 cats already, plus a 7 year old boy. We’ve got people stopping by when we’re not in town, to feed the cat and change the litter. But we obviously need a more permanent solution.
So: would anyone in central Florida be interested in bringing a cat into their life, or know anyone else who would be?
KG
@Schlemizel: heh, on LeBatard’s radio show, Bomani Jones was having some fun pointing out how “we got a DeMarcus on the team, and we got a DeAndre, and we got a JERMAINE. WE GOT A JERMAINE!”
beltane
@Schlemizel: Soccer involves 45 minute stretches of continuous action. They do not cut away to commercial breaks every couple of minutes while a three-person panel of judges reviews each instance of a player brushing up against each other. American corporate culture demands frequent-and long-time outs, while American audiences demand frequent opportunities for potty and snack breaks.
Mnemosyne
@muddy:
Hooray! And he probably stinks of something he found outside, which is why the other cat is acting like s/he doesn’t recognize him. When we got Boris and Natasha together again after her surgery, he hissed at her because she smelled like antibiotics. It took a few days for him to recognize her again.
Schlemizel
@cmorenc:
I guess I’ll never understand the game then. The ref magically decides some number of minutes of time to tack on to the end of the game. Why not have him stop and start the clock so everyone knows where that time comes from? Guys are flopping around & trainers come on the field and sometime the ref mentally adds a minute & other times not. How do you follow that?
Mnemosyne
@low-tech cyclist:
I cannot take said kitty, being on the West Coast, but I will put in a pitch for adopting elderly cats previously owned by elderly ladies. My co-worker adopted a 10-year-old cat under similar circumstances and they absolutely dote on each other.
Plus cats can easily live to 15 or 16 (if not older), so a 6 or 7 year old cat will probably be with you for at least 10 years.
SiubhanDuinne
@WaterGirl:
Very short version: He and his brother were on vacation in the Caribbean a couple of months ago, drunk driver plowed into their taxi, he and brother both very seriously injured. Flown at some point to NYC, LO’D noted great irony that his surgery and recovery took place in hospital that was supported by and named after David Koch. He did a whole riff about anchormen not being allowed to cry on TV, referencing Walter Cronkite on 11/22/63. Whole thing very emotional as you can imagine. Hard to tell from commentary, I think he might have lost a leg, I hope not, but he mentioned it a couple of times so I’m not sure.
Very disturbing.
scav
America, futball just might not be that into you, not enough to go through all the plastic surgery, rule and deportment changing, etc you seem to require of her. Not the end of the world for either of you.
pseudonymous in nc
@redshirt:
Where are the people finding talented eight-year-olds? Because that’s when the recruiting begins elsewhere in the world.
It’s multiple things: big country, big population, better infrastructure for other sports, class divides (“soccer camp” kids), and as Klinsmann said a couple of years ago, an approach that’s based around college, when most of the players for other countries were going pro at 18 or earlier.
There’s a squad of potential 2022 World Cup winners kicking balls around in U-11 rec leagues right now: a third of them will give up by high school, a third will be told to focus on a college scholarship, and the other third will get noticed by professional clubs.
Schlemizel
MUDDY:
Glad for your good news. We have never let our cats roam freely but do take them out in the yard when the weather is nice as long as they stay in our yard (they can be trained. They know if they leave the yard they are back in the house for the day).
We had a fixed male who ran off. He came back 2-3 days later all beaten to hell. We took him to the vet to get an abscess drained and a couple of stitches. A few days later, after he had recovered he bolted out the door again & we never saw him again. Damn thing went back for more & lost. It hurt us.
beltane
@Schlemizel: You obviously never attended any of my son’s games.He played right up through sixth grade and if there was such a thing as death by boredom I wouldn’t be here right now. Their teams were so bad that the kids lost all interest causing the middle school to drop baseball entirely because not enough of them signed up. My son’s basketball and soccer teams are not much better, but the kids really enjoy themselves and their excitement is contagious. It sucks for my son because he’s an outstanding soccer player on an awful team.
Gin & Tonic
@Comrade Dread: Let me tell you how many gymnastics meets I sat through, on hard bleachers, for hour after hour after hour of the *exact same* floor routine music, as is done while they are still young and doing what are called “compulsory exercises.”
askew
@Anoniminous:
I can’t stand Tom Cruise and avoid his movies like the plague but got stuck going to this one and it was really good. Probably the best movie I’ve seen in the theaters this year.
Anoniminous
@lamh36:
thanks
SiubhanDuinne
Muddy, I am late to these comments but so very glad your kitteh came back!
cmorenc
@Schlemizel:
For one thing, it would be very difficult to come up with a seamlessly workable “last play rule” for soccer the way gridiron football does. Exact-clock time is a solution in search of a problem to solve in soccer, of which there is none. Exact-clock time works *very* poorly in American high school and collegiat soccer (I referee both the FIFA version and the high school version).
pseudonymous in nc
@Schlemizel:
Why not have NFL players wear less padding? Why not have a shot clock in baseball? Why not lower the hoop in basketball so that it’s not just for genetic freaks?
For fuck’s sake.
lamh36
@askew: Agreed. I’m NOT a Cruise fan at all, but my cousin and I were talking about it just yesterday and we both commented that wow, EOT was really good. So I’ve kinda made it my one woman mission to get more of my peeps to watch it…lol
WaterGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: Thanks. I had no idea.
askew
@SiubhanDuinne:
Yikes. I hope he didn’t lose a leg. That’s terrible. Did he say how is brother is doing?
On a mostly unreleated note, I wonder if he and Tamaron Hall are still an item?
WaterGirl
@lamh36: I was late to the “car” thread earlier (or yesterday?) but I wanted to mention something to you because you mentioned something about headroom.
Please make sure you get a vehicle where there is plenty of headroom. A friend’s brother was in a car accident and was paralyzed because there wasn’t enough room between the top of his head and the car. I had no idea, but that’s really important for safety in case of a crash.
Schlemizel
@KG:
Unless there is big money and big celebrity in soccer the names I would expect to see if the US was top 5 would be Gonzalez, Sanchez, Hermanos. They will be Americans but their parents might not be.
@beltane: “45 minutes of continuous action”
Yeah, I suppose, if you consider that action, it is movement. But I hate the NFL now (was once a total fan) I love the pace of baseball in summer BECAUSE of the breaks and shifts but MLB/TV/ADD fans is wrecking that too so that I now prefer fastpitch softball and kids games.
FOr actual action there is more of it in 10 minutes of a decent hockey game (not necessarily the NHL) than in 45 minutes of futbol. At this point I can enjoy futbol I can appreciate how hard it is and the teamwork involved, I just can’t get excited about it.
beltane
@cmorenc: I like the uncertain nature of extra time. When anything can happen until the whistle blows, and you don’t know in advance when the whistle will blow, there is no opportunity for the fans or players to relax.
SiubhanDuinne
@WaterGirl:
No, nor did I.
I no longer have TV but I do have Sirius XM in my car and when I’m not listening to classical music I’m usually listening to BBC or MSNBC. Knew O’Donnell had been away for a while but to the extent I thought about his absence, I thought he was just on extended vacation.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@askew: Broken hip.
magurakurin
@beltane:
that’s just it, it’s not continuous action. The clock just doesn’t stop. They stand around at times(a lot really), just like other sports. Play stops when the ball goes out of bounds and then the teams reset. Just like other sports. Sure, compared to the freak anomaly of time that American Football can be, yeah, it’s “continuous action.” But a rugby match is arguably just as continuous if not more and basketball games can be track meets, ice hockey as well. I get that people love soccer, cool. But let’s dispel with the notion that soccer has more action than other sports. Whatever the appeal of soccer is, and I’ll admit I don’t get it, it isn’t the whole continuous action thing.
SiubhanDuinne
@askew:
It seems he broke a hip. I don’t see anything more about his losing a leg, so he may have been putting out the “worst-case scenario” that was going through his mind early on.
His brother had a broken femur. Ouch. He’s being treated in Boston, not NYC.
I guess nobody was killed, not the drunk, not the taxi driver, so that’s a bit of good news.
muddy
@beltane: What I remember from my son being in Little League was that almost every hit was a home run, because the fielding was non-existent.
Schlemizel
@pseudonymous in nc:
Except for padding, those things are regulated so that fans can understand what is happening, Extra time is a magic number one guy pulls out of his ass. Better example would be “Why not have the referee decide its a first down without having yard markers?”
But thats not what bothers me about soccer for fucks sake.
One of the things that bothers me about the game is crap like “if you don’t understand extra time you don’t understand soccer”. When extra time is not part of the game since forever & has been adjusted
For fucks sake
scav
@magurakurin: Is there nothing to a movie except continuous car chase at an eternally consistent speed? That’s a simplistic concept of action you’re wielding.
beltane
@magurakurin: Things always seem to happen when I step away from the TV. With most sports you almost have to go out and walk the dog or make a quick trip to the store in order to avoid the relentless advertising blitz.
lamh36
@WaterGirl: Oh, yeah. I hadn’t thought about that, I was mostly focused on the fact that it’s just DAMN uncomfortable.
beltane
@muddy: Yes, home runs or walks almost without exception. The sheer pain of it all. This is the first time in eight years that none of my kids are doing baseball and it feels like heaven.
Chopper
@redshirt:
Center holds it…holds it…holds it…
magurakurin
@scav: sorry, soccer players stand around about the same as other sports maybe more than some and yes, less than others. Yes, they are in top physical condition and they run an enormous amount in a game. But basketball players, don’t? Ice hockey players don’t skate in a similar way? rugby players run less?(maybe, but they are smashing each other while they run and the physical stamina required to play 80 minutes of rugby is clearly more than required for 90 minutes of soccer)
I refuse to accept the continuous action notion, simply because the clock doesn’t stop. How is the players setting up for a corner kick, or a free kick and more or less action than American footballers huddling to decide the next play and then both teams setting their positions? The only difference is the clock may or may not be stopped in American football.
magurakurin
@beltane:
watch a rugby test match.
WaterGirl
@lamh36: Yeah, well, I thought you would be less tempted to tell yourself it didn’t matter if I shared the information. We have to keep you in good shape for Hawaii and a possible new job. :-)
beltane
Those of you who don’t “get” soccer are lucky, because the game can really drive you nuts. My husband watches just about every sport except hockey, but when his team was playing today he couldn’t even watch because it was too emotional.
askew
2014 seems to be a year where celebrity crushes go to die. Gary Oldman is apparently pissed because we can’t all go around saying the n-word and thinks we should give Mel Gibson and Alec Baldwin a break.
muddy
Here’s another one waiting patiently, as though the birds won’t notice him sitting there.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@magurakurin:
Rugby backs tend to run about two miles during a game, most of it at a sprint. Forwards do about twice that but at a slower pace.
beltane
@askew: At first I thought your post referred to Gary Coleman, who I now realize is deceased.
Chopper
@askew:
Well, that’s a whole mess of something that isn’t sense. “Leave Mel alone! I’ll bet there’s a Jewish asshole out there too! Which means we’re all hypocrites.”
scav
@magurakurin: So they include “infrastructure” time in on the clock? So fucking what? The whole length of a match is an utterly artificial and arbitrary decision. It’s just a different decision than made in mass-marketing oriented sports here but it’s as valid and logical (meaning also utterly balmy) as the odd systems that seem ‘natural’ to fans of other sports.
askew
@SiubhanDuinne:
While that is still horrible, much better than losing a leg. And good to hear no one died.
magurakurin
@scav:
that’s my point. Not more or less action, just a different method of time keeping. Soccer has stoppage of play.
and soccer is some pure, marketing and advertising free sport?
whatever.
Ruckus
@redshirt:
More than one generation. I played soccer freshman year in HS and I’m on SS now. BTW I wasn’t any good at it but at the school I attended that year we played soccer, basketball and softball. No football, no track. Only time I saw a priest do or say nothing about any kind of undesired language was to the kid who was laying on the ground holding his groin and answered the stupid question, are you OK, with, “Fuck No I’m not OK, I just got kicked in the nuts.”
askew
@beltane:
Gary Coleman is dead? Aw, that’s sad.
@Chopper:
Yeah, that is a bucket of crazy. Would never have guessed he was that nuts.
pseudonymous in nc
@Schlemizel:
That’s special pleading.
Stoppage time has been around for as long as the penalty kick. It has been extended and is now enumerated, but that’s a continuous evolution of a guiding principle that timekeeping is out of the hands of players and at the referee’s discretion. You play to the whistle; it only takes a second to score a goal. It’s similar to how substitutions have been gradually increased over time, which is another evolution; free interchange of players would be a radical change.
Alex Morgan:
scav
@magurakurin: Did I say that? the local pattern on how commercials are interspersed in the show is a better fit for the local mass sports. Given what I’ve seen of French TV with all the ads in a block between shows, their pattern fits theirs.
magurakurin
@scav: so, how does it make a soccer match 45 minutes of continuous action? It seems that it is 45 minutes of advertising free television. Admittedly one can see the appeal of that, but an altogether different claim to greatness.
beltane
@scav: It could just be that American Exceptionalism is a real thing when it comes to sports. In order to make soccer palatable to Americans, they’d have to make the kinds of changes that would ruin the game in the eyes of the rest of the world.
beejeez
@RobertDSC-Power Mac G5 Dual: We’ll be sure to pass your suggestion for improvement on to the 2 billion or so fans around the world.
scav
@magurakurin: Arbitrary time to game which includes necessary infrastructure time. Why is your definition of action in the game limited to guys running at full tilt into each other? Should boxing “games” be timed uniquely by time spent enduring blows of a certain pressure and frequency and all the dancing and weaving and whatever time of ‘non-action’ done away with and cut from the sport? The bulk of the world finds this futball system fairly logical and really like the result.
beltane
De gustibus non est disputandum. For the sake of sanity, I sometimes frequent perfume blogs (they are a real thing). Being that it’s widely accepted that the preference of one type of fragrance over another is a purely subjective thing, there are almost never any arguments at these places. Some people like Chanel no. 19, some people like Axe. There is really nothing to argue about.
magurakurin
@scav: How then is a football huddle or time out with the team consulting with the coach, who is the off-field leader, not action? My point is that soccer doesn’t have more or less action than any other sport, they just don’t stop the clock. It’s soccer fans who make the claim about continuous action and then go on to consider “infrastructure time” in other sports as non-action, but somehow action in soccer. No commercials, great. Continuous action, no sport has that or every sport does, can’t be some do, some don’t. That’s my point.
scav
@beltane: That’s more or less where I’m at. There are some cultural differences and certain Americans expect the world and world’s game to adapt to their expectations and prejudices. Could be that the world’s not necessarily that interested, however hot and necessary a date the US market considers itself to be. Which is repeating myself.
scav
@magurakurin: I’d be perfectly happy to count huddle time as game time. It’s as arbitrary as anything else.
scav
@magurakurin: There are other things they adopt, more or less successfully, to achieve their ideal of continuous play. The ideal of exactly a set specific micro-measured amount of “action” packed running isn’t what they’re going for.
Anoniminous
@askew:
Thanks
Ronnie P
People who hate soccer are like people who oppose gay marriage. The future is not yours. I’m not saying soccer will supplant the NFL, but the days of gratuitous soccer hating are gone. Except among right wingers.
LT
Good post John.
EDIT: Oh, damn, I just read the instructions….
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@magurakurin:
Shorter playing surface, timeouts (the last two minutes of a game can easily run for half an hour) and nearly unlimited substitutions.
Again, shorter playing surface, and a lot of substitution. Forwards are rarely on the ice for more than a minute at a time, while defensemen usually don’t go for more than two at a time (Yes, I know, Ray Borque was known to have played nearly an entire period- in game 7 of a conference final). Hockey has two intermissions between periods in regular season games, more for overtime games in the playoffs.
Yeah, those crazy bastards are on the field for most of a game. It’s easy to see how rugby football and association football are two very closely related games. The international rules for rugby union allow for 7 substitutions per game (association football rules at the international level allow only 3), while, iirc, rugby league usually allows for 10 subs/game.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): Rugby does have 15 players and a higher risk of injuries. I think the sub rules are fairly equivalent.
ETA: The less said about League, the better.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Ronnie P:
I love the NFL, but I’ll say it. American (and, for that matter, Canadian) football has a serious problem: Brain injuries.
Unlike other sports, in which a player is concussed when s/he or another player does something improperly or incorrectly, football players often sustain brain injuries when an opponent tackles him correctly and legally. While the NFL itself might be able to overcome the monetary costs related to brain injuries for quite a while, high schools and pee-wee/rcket leagues cannot. Fewer and fewer players will develop the skills needed to become a good professional player. Kids will turn to other sports, and soccer, being cheap to play and easy to learn, will grow.
The American game began as a rich boy’s sport. It became more inclusive because the costs of a football injury, both short and long term, became offset by affordable insurance policies for the sponsoring institutions.. Those policies are becoming cost-prohibitive. The game will devolve back to the wealthy before it dies.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): Rugby-style tackling would make a difference.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
I’m not seeing it. The only way I see it hanging on is when someone has figured out how to safely implant something like an automotive airbag into the inner lining of the human skull.
dogwood
Soccer isn’t popular in America for the same reason tennis isn’t popular. It has nothing to do with the sports themselves, but rather the international nature of those two sports. Americans seem to only want to watch Americans compete against each other in sports that are pretty exclusively American. And then we call the winners “World Champions”. All part of ‘Merican exceptionalism.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): My view is that we peel back the padding allowed. I came to rugby in college with a background ans a runner. Rugby taught me to tackle. Make contact, wrap arms, and drive through the other player. No concussive impact is done right. The guys who came over from American football all hurt their shoulders before they learned. OTOH, I was not above a horse collar tackle on the wing if needed (I also never bitch if some did it to me – do unto others…) Talking about makes me want to find a 40+ team around here. I might finally get a chance to play first team flanker (my favorite position and one I got to sub into. Too small to play it regularly.).
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@dogwood: Is tennis massively popular anywhere?
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
While you’re at it, start looking for the 50+ league now. We ain’t gettin’ younger.
dogwood
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
Yes. And it used to be much more popular in the US. That interest pretty much died over the last decade or so with the retirement of the Sampras, Agassi, Courier, and Chang group who in their prime were winners and contenders in major tournaments. Before them there was the McEnroe/Conners era. In the last decade Americans haven’t been in contention at the Majors so tv contracts dried up. Americans do not watch sports where Americans aren’t #1. I would imagine the the names “Raphael Nadal” and “Roger Federer” carry more currency in the world than any famous American NFL player or MLB player.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): I have until August. If I join a 50+ team, they will make me play wing. I’ll still be young and fast in their rugby addled brains.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
That’s what I thought- you’re a year older than me (I’m 49 next month).
@dogwood:
Seems to me that ratings were already declining when that group hit its prime. Spit-balling here, but it also seems to me that as tennis viewership fell in this country, golf viewership rose.
ETA: And Sampras sorta ushered in the boring all serve-no-volley era in the men’s game, no?
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@dogwood: How many Brazilians give two fucks about golf?
dogwood
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):
Tiger woods is an American phenom. That’s what drove the golf interest in this country.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@dogwood: Where does tennis draw 100,000 audiences?
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@dogwood:
It seems as if golf was growing in popularity throughout the ’80s and early ’90s, when Tiger arrived on scene.
Either way, I view each sport as belonging to the wealthy. The popularity of any televised sporting event that airs the same ads that run during the Sunday morning talking heads shows and 60 Minutes (Travelers’ Insurance, I’m looking at you) survives on the whims of a very narrow class of people.
dogwood
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
What is your point? The size of traditional venues for various sports isn’t necessarily the way to measure their popularity. The center court at a major tennis tournament doesn’t seat 100,000, but more than 100,000 spectators attend Wimbledon or Roland Garros per day. There are multiple courts at a tennis tournament and matches occurring simultaneously.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@dogwood: Okay, how many people actually give a shit about who wins? (I actually am among those who follow it. I just don’t pretend that anyone else cares.)
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@dogwood:
Attendance at Wimbledon is less than half that number:
That’s the 2013 attendance.
link
dogwood
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):
I’m not quibbling with the fact that tennis isn’t popular in the US. I objected to a statement earlier (not yours) that tennis wasn’t popular worldwide. It’s a pretty healthy sport outside of North America. And there’s plenty of fame and fortune in it.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): Let’s guess the attendance at the NFL playoffs or even FIFA WC qualifying games – let alone actual tournament games?
dogwood
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Outside of the US there are places where people give a shit. @Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):
Yeah, I forget that as a tournament progresses attendance actually declines as players are eliminated and courts are out of play.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@dogwood: Okay. What have you proven?
James E. Powell
@Schlemizel:
Right now soccer is the game of suburban kids who see a good life outside the risk of pro sports.
No disrespect, but I teach high school in Los Angeles, in the part of town that would be called the “inner city” if this town were configured like cities back east. Anyway, I’d estimate that between 60-80% of my students play or have played some form of organized soccer. Every year, there are six or seven who are playing on travel teams.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Tennis is a huge international sport? Or generally bourgeois folk follow tennis and rugby?
dogwood
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
This is all a false analogy. Tennis doesn’t have a playoff system or a Super Bowl. It goes on all year from surface to surface around the globe. And I don’t know why you would bring FIFA into it. I originally said tennis and soccer weren’t popular in America because too many of its stars are foreigners. I didn’t say tennis was as popular as futbol.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@dogwood:
But I’m not so sure that tennis is all that popular as much as that some of its big finals rounds are destination television, as is the Indy 500 here (and as the Super Bowl is around the world right now, rivaled only by the Champions League finals). That featured EPL game on Sundays draws a shitload more viewership worldwide than does the finals of some non-major tennis final that’s airing against it. That tennis match is probably being outdrawn across the globe by other sports airing in individual nations. Motorcycles racing on ice are blowing it away in Russia. Curling is killing it in Canada. Table tennis is beating its pants off in China.
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
Yeah, they’re hella outdrawing Wimbledon. I saw some tweet today about opening day attendance at Wimbledon- 41,000+- outdrawing 14 WC matches. What it doesn’t say is that those Wimbledon numbers are over a long, midsummer English day, with people coming and going every few hours. It also fails to note how many people are there simply to network or to be seen, because we all know that it’s one of those events that isn’t necessarily about the product at the center of it. It’s more like the Kentucky Derby in that way- a hat show that has a horse race at the end of it.
dogwood
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):
Wimbledon does have smaller stadiums than many venues. This year Indian Wells drew about 435,000 and that’s a top tier tournament, but not a Major. I think it’s major stadium seats more than center court at Wimbledon. But the All England Club isn’t going to change much. Flushing Meadow drew a little over 700,000 last year. I’ve been in Australia during the Aussie Open (Sydney not Melbourne) and interest in that tournament is pretty intense. Was twice in London during Wimbledon, and it’s a big deal there.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@dogwood:
That doesn’t convince me much. Indian Wells? We’re talking Palm Springs, which is full of rich retirees whose generation was raised on tennis. What’s the demographic breakdown of the crowd? And Wimbledon, the US, French and Australian Opens are all destination events, events that draw based upon tradition as much as much as, if not more than, actual interest in the sport. Offering my own anecdote regarding the Australian Open, I’ve got a couple of FB friends from Oz whom I met through different sports-related pages, and they’re extremely loud about the event, but once its over, they won’t talk about tennis for another 50 weeks. It’s as if they’re saying, “>>>HEY, WORLD, LOOK AT US!!<<< We enjoy tennis."
Again, look at the advertisers. Look at the sponsors. They're selling products to richer, older people. That doesn't make for a promising future.
dogwood
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):
I think one of the reasons tennis tournaments are destination events is that when you buy tickets you don’t know who you will see play. In the early rounds a grounds pass might give you flexibility, but if you have center court or other show court tickets you watch the match they give to you. With team sports, when you buy a ticket you know who you will see play. That creates a different atmosphere.
JAFD
@beltane:
ISTR that in ’84 some paper did a survey of DC stores, tried to see if there were perfumes preferred by one political party or the other.
IIRC, _Tuberrose_, _White Shoulders_, and _Chanel #29_, and _Aramis_ for men, were ‘Republican scents’; while _Chloe_, _Joy_, _Chanel #5_, and _Paco Rabanne_ were preferred by Democrats.
Anyone have further information or anecdotes or opinions on this ?
MHPH
@magurakurin: Less than which ones, precisely?
Vanya
@Ronnie P: Sure, only right-wingers hate the actual game of soccer. But I respect people who detest the rampant commercialism, the ethically challenged owners and crude pseudo-fascism of a lot of the fans. And FIFA has to be one of the most purely evil, loathsome and corrupt organizations on the planet. Unfortunately, I am not strong enough to be a man of principle – I love international soccer.
Chet
@Vanya:
Sorry, but this strikes me as being every bit as silly and tribal as saying only effete latte-sipping metrosexual liberal elitists don’t enjoy the NFL, MLB, NASCAR, etc.
Why the fuck does everything like this have to be grist for bullshit culture-war posturing and shibboleth-wielding, on either side? Why can’t different people just enjoy different things?
Chet
@dogwood: I think golf fandom is also driven by the fact that it’s a sport a lot of people play, precisely because it doesn’t demand much in terms of athletic physique or stamina. Not to mention has a handicapping system that allows players of even vastly different skill levels to play together and still have fun.