Short Read: “The Fog Machine of War”

Another survivor of Dubya’s Excellent Iraq Adventure got an op-ed slot in the NYTimes this past weekend:

If you were following the news during the March 2010 elections in Iraq, you might remember that the American press was flooded with stories declaring the elections a success, complete with upbeat anecdotes and photographs of Iraqi women proudly displaying their ink-stained fingers. The subtext was that United States military operations had succeeded in creating a stable and democratic Iraq.

Those of us stationed there were acutely aware of a more complicated reality.

Military and diplomatic reports coming across my desk detailed a brutal crackdown against political dissidents by the Iraqi Ministry of Interior and federal police, on behalf of Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki. Detainees were often tortured, or even killed.

Early that year, I received orders to investigate 15 individuals whom the federal police had arrested on suspicion of printing “anti-Iraqi literature.” I learned that these individuals had absolutely no ties to terrorism; they were publishing a scholarly critique of Mr. Maliki’s administration. I forwarded this finding to the officer in command in eastern Baghdad. He responded that he didn’t need this information; instead, I should assist the federal police in locating more “anti-Iraqi” print shops…

Among the many daily reports I received via email while working in Iraq in 2009 and 2010 was an internal public affairs briefing that listed recently published news articles about the American mission in Iraq. One of my regular tasks was to provide, for the public affairs summary read by the command in eastern Baghdad, a single-sentence description of each issue covered, complementing our analysis with local intelligence.

The more I made these daily comparisons between the news back in the States and the military and diplomatic reports available to me as an analyst, the more aware I became of the disparity. In contrast to the solid, nuanced briefings we created on the ground, the news available to the public was flooded with foggy speculation and simplifications…

115 replies
  1. 1
    lamh36 says:

    Legit question, has anyone asked Hilary if she does become President would she be advocate for sending troops back to Iraq? Or would that NOT be a valid question to ask, cause …”O-bot” or whatever?

    Hillary Clinton Pushed Obama to Keep Troops in Iraq

  2. 2
    Morzer says:

    Steve King ✔ @SteveKingIA
    Obama raids Redskins by weaponizing USPTO. Cancels Redskins logo! Free people will not tolerate a Kim Jong POTUS.

  3. 3
    KG says:

    @lamh36: based on the daily show tonight, I’m guessing the answer will be something like “blah blah hard choices blah blah”

  4. 4
    KG says:

    @Morzer: the holy fuck all of it…

  5. 5
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Morzer: The stupid. It’s burning. Again.

  6. 6
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @lamh36: I have no idea what her view would be, but people in advisory roles can adopt positions that they would not not if they were the person in charge. It’s best as the person in charge to hear the best, strongest for every side and then make the call.

    On Topic: A thoughtful piece by Manning.

  7. 7
    srv says:

    @lamh36: Hillary selflessly supported maintaining the throbbing surging.

    It’s all about a Decent Interval. We don’t have the deep thinkers or skillz to outplay the al-Malikis self-destructive traits. We have to go to the peace with the peacemakers we have.

  8. 8
    lamh36 says:

    I’m watching VH1’s latest “I Love The…” series. It’s the 2000s addition. They aired the 2003 episode tonights.

    Isn’t it something, that the shit that went down with Dixie Chicks back in 2003. Now ask the same people how they feel about the Iraq War that GWB and Cheney nem started.

    I’ve NEVER been a fan of country music, but I’ve loved Dixie Chicks since then.

    Fuck country music fans!

  9. 9
    Corner Stone says:

    Oh no, you did uhnt!

  10. 10
    srv says:

    @Morzer: Does anyone have a contact at the USPTO? I have a thousand nice pairs of jackboots.

  11. 11
    Corner Stone says:

    @lamh36: Legit suggestion. Don’t vote for her. Let’s see where Jeb or Rand get you.

  12. 12
    Corner Stone says:

    @srv: What size(s) are they?

  13. 13
    lamh36 says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Ok, so Hilary’s call at the time was to keep troops in Iraq. Now that she is once again a Presidential contender, allegedly, then the question should be asked of her then.

    So at the very least you can get some lip service about it. Now she may say,naw her position has changed, or she will say that yes she still thinks keeping troops there should have been the call.

    Of course, if the coronation is to happen, no one will ask the question, cause no one wants to spoil it for her I guess?

    But I’d like to damb sure know that answer. My cousin was in Army reserves and after 9/11 he was called to serve overseas and he had a few tours to Iraq and was one of the soldiers who came home after Obama got troops out.

    With all the Iraq news going on right now, its the question I’d like answered from Hilary.

    @Corner Stone: Whatever dude. you have become really easy to read of late. I actually already know exactly what you’d say. but whatever. I’m not even gonna ring your bell by answering you question, cause it’s basically your usual BS rather than legit conversation

  14. 14
    Corner Stone says:

    @lamh36: Hey, thass cool. We could either mind fuck Hillary Clinton now, or we could wait to vote on actual candidates for the D nom in 2016.
    But I agree with your approach! It’s quite simple, after all!

  15. 15
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @lamh36: I am not remotely interested in coronating Hillary. I am actively hoping that someone younger, more liberal, and more charismatic enters the fray, but if she ends up as the nominee I won’t have any hesitation about voting for her.

    BTW, in her book she flat out says she was wrong about voting for the AUMF.

  16. 16
    jurassicpork says:

    If you like your political news and satire NSFW, then you don’t want to miss Assclowns of the Week #99: Dr. Strangehate edition. On the spit this week: Rick Perry, Dick & Liz Cheney, the MSM, Pat Robertson, and much, much more.

  17. 17
    Morzer says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):

    Schweitzer seems to have gone mad:

    “Don’t hold this against me, but I’m going to blurt it out,” Schweitzer is quoted as saying. “How do I say this … men in the South, they are a little effeminate. They just have effeminate mannerisms. If you were just a regular person, you turned on the TV, and you saw Eric Cantor talking, I would say — and I’m fine with gay people, that’s all right — but my gaydar is 60-70 percent. But he’s not, I think, so I don’t know. Again, I couldn’t care less. I’m accepting.”

    Cogan joked in her article that Schweitzer was “unable to hold his tongue” on multiple occasions during their interviews. Schweitzer compared Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) to a sex worker for the intelligence community, Cogan wrote.

    “She was the woman who was standing under the streetlight with her dress pulled all the way up over her knees and now she says, ‘I’m a nun,’ when it comes to this spying I mean, maybe that’s the wrong metaphor — but she was all in!” Schweitzer said of Feinstein.

    Heaven knows, I don’t have much time for either Cantor or Feinstein, but still…

  18. 18
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Morzer: Well, Schweitzer was never going to get my vote in a primary, but damn.

  19. 19
    Kristin says:

    @lamh36: Remember when it was considered treason to merely question the “Commander-in-Chief”? That’s only true of those of the pasty complexion, I guess.

  20. 20
    Morzer says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):

    I starting to believe that he’s got a serious problem beyond the inability to shut the fuck up in due season.

  21. 21
    Corner Stone says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Schwartzer is a fucking tool. Not sure why MSNBC keeps giving him airtime to say his stupid shit.

  22. 22
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Not sure why MSNBC keeps giving him airtime to say his stupid shit.

    Now who’s being naive, Kay?

  23. 23
    KG says:

    @Morzer: I am this >< close to just quitting. Like, investigating Fiji citizenship requirements close

  24. 24
    Corner Stone says:

    Legit question. What about this article by Chelsea Manning?

  25. 25
    Corner Stone says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Presidents and senators don’t have men killed.

  26. 26
    beltane says:

    @Morzer: Maybe Schweitzer is aiming to be 2016’s answer to Mike Gravel.

  27. 27
    Corner Stone says:

    Legit question. Is the moon made of green cheese, or the greenest of cheese?

  28. 28
    lamh36 says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Serious question, why is it that people always have to add the caveat about assuredly voting for Hilary if she’s the nominee.

    I’ve always voted Dems, and I will continue to do so. But why is it if anyone ask any legit question about motives or just want some clarification we are bombarded with some bullshit like this :

    @Corner Stone: Legit suggestion. Don’t vote for her. Let’s see where Jeb or Rand get you

    If one has any question about it, doe we need to have a signature after post questioning Hilary? Should I end all such comments with a disclaimer like some sort of legal document.

    It’s basically just a way to shut any and all conversation and it’s aggravating to say the least. Maybe I should swear a blood oath that I will be voting for Dem nominee just so I can ask a question of HRC.

  29. 29
    Corner Stone says:

    Legit question. Did Hillary kill her former lover, or all her former lovers?

  30. 30
    Morzer says:


    It’s just Corny distributing random acts of flatulence. The poor idiot doesn’t have anything to say, so it just barks out nonsense every few minutes to get attention.

  31. 31
    Corner Stone says:

    @lamh36: This is totes hilar. During the runup to 2012, right here, on the very liberal blog Balloon Juice, every motherfucker who had the extremely mildest of problems or critiques with President Obama was forced to pre-emptively state just how much they loved Obama, how they voted for him and how they would DEFINITELY vote for him again. But, maybe, could they please be allowed to say this one tiny thing here?
    “I love Obama. I donated and raised money for him in 2008. But I don’t agree with XYZ right now. Please don’t castrate me.”
    /BJ commenters

  32. 32
    lamh36 says:

    @Corner Stone: I’m not disputing that at all CS. But I don’t recall being one of those commenters.

    Maybe you have me confused with some other commenter.

    But whatever.

  33. 33
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Corner Stone: It provides a perspective as to what she was thinking when she released everything she could get her hands on. The idea that she just was trying to expose potential war crimes like Garani does not explain the wholesale grabbing of everything. Bitterness and disillusionment might. I knew from the start that the war was wrong and was started under false pretenses, so discovering evidence of it didn’t have much of an effect on my view, but I can see how it could have affect Manning. First blush reaction is that I am starting to think that it might be a good thing for the president to commute Manning’s sentence before he leaves office.

  34. 34
    Corner Stone says:

    @lamh36: Hmmm. You’re not disputing that happened here, yet you just said the shit you said a second ago.
    Ok, thanks.

  35. 35
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @lamh36: The PUMA wars of 2008 are in part to blame.

    ETA: From my personal perspective, I am trying to make clear where I stand. I know a large number of people have very fixed views on HRC and are likely to interpret any remarks about her through that lens.

  36. 36
    lamh36 says:

    Like I said before, I have family members currently enlisted who had multiple tours to Iraq. My first cuz, who I love like my brother (he’s a year younger) was one of the soldiers we all saw leaving Iraq on CNN. He still won’t talk about his time there. He joined the Reserves after HS in ’95. He wasn’t the best student so college wasn’t happening for him and we lived in a pretty bad area when we were younger, so the Army was a way for boys in my neighborhood to get out of that life. I remember they started running out of soldiers, so BushCo raided state reservist. My cuz was one of them.

    So yeah, excuse me, but I’d like to know what next Prez would do Dem or Repub. I fully belief that it better with the devil you know rather than the devil who smiles in your face and stabs you in the back.

    My blood oath…”I WILL BE VOTING FOR DEM NOMINEE IN 2016″ but excuse me if with all the turmoil in Iraq right now that doens’t seem like it will be ending anytime soon, that I’d like to know what the next Prez will do.

  37. 37
    ulee says:

    Dick Cheney: I’m an asshole and I lie like other people get up in the morning.
    Liz Cheney: I’m an asshole and I lie like other people put one foot in front of the other.
    Press: We like to offer both sides of the issue.

  38. 38
    Corner Stone says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): I, for one, think she’s an individual with a very disturbed state of being. Not only personally, but professionally.
    “Grabbing” or taking, or whatever as a response to a situation that was out of control is one set of reactions in a realm of outcomes.
    IMO, I thought the pre-trial treatment was beyond the pale and should have been mitigated by people who knew better, and were decent human beings. The fact that that did not happen seriously upset my sense of humanity, and equal justice.
    I agree that Chelsea should see some kind of limiting in her sentence, and possible treatment, as warranted.

  39. 39
    lamh36 says:

    @Corner Stone: Ya know what I’m officially saying “dueces” to you. I already know your game and I’ve been mostly ignoring it and not playing the engagement game with you. I did tonight against my better judgment. I’ve learned my lesson though and it’s back to ignoring you.

    Have a good night.

  40. 40
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Corner Stone: A rare-ish moment when we are in agreement. On all of it.

  41. 41
    Corner Stone says:

    @lamh36: Well. I’ve been chastened here by your thoughtful and coherent responses.
    I’ve learned something here tonight, and I appreciate your contributions.

  42. 42
    Corner Stone says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): We agree about a lot of things. You just don’t know how to express yourself like I do. I’ve rejected artifice.
    Eva Green, anyone?

  43. 43
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @lamh36: Hey, the sheer, butt-puckering terror that someone like Romney could possibly end up as president kept me quiet about aspects of the Obama presidency with which I am not happy. Like education policy and surveillance. I know that the GOP would be as bad or worse on those issues so they were not in play for me in the days leading up to 2012. Afterwards, there was a bit of window, I thought.

  44. 44
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Corner Stone: Eva Green, indeed.

    @lamh36: Your link was problematic. Here is another. Bonus for the awesome pink suit – damn straight, I couldn’t pull that off.

  45. 45
    Corner Stone says:

    Legit question. Why has no one asked lamh36 why Arne Duncan is Sec of Education?

  46. 46
    Corner Stone says:

    Legit question. Why are we killing so many people all over the world who we can’t identify?

  47. 47
    ruemara says:

    @lamh36: Remember all the time CS spent frothing about Obots and our attacks due to insufficient fealty? Can’t be the same guy doing this about Hillary. I’m sure it’s a spoofer.

  48. 48
    Corner Stone says:

    @ruemara: This means something. I’m sure.

  49. 49
    Corner Stone says:

    Man, English. I’m sorry to see you go dawg. Rest in Peace.

  50. 50
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    Weird as hell. Has anyone beside Corner Stone and me even mentioned the Manning piece?

  51. 51
    Suffern ACE says:

    Bah. No perfect game.

  52. 52
    David Koch says:

    @Morzer: I listen to Stephanie Miller’s show and she and her side kick are openly gay and they’ve been saying for years that Cantor was gay.

    I would imagine an under the radar discussion about him being gay, played a role in his defeat.

    The media wants to make it about immigration, but he’s the only winger involved in the immigration issue to lose. If there was some broad wingnut revolt over immigration, then there would be a number of loses, or at the very least, a number of tight races. But no, on the congressional level, it’s only been Cantor.

    It had to be a lot more than just immigration.

    Some members of the media (NYT, Cook Political Report) have said it’s because Cantor doesn’t pray to Jesus. The media hates to discuss this because they like to pretend that GOP is tolerant, but as Heritage/Bengazhi disaster on Monday proved, that’s a lie.

    Now what Schweitzer said was dumb, but dumb is the life’s blood of the TeaOP.

  53. 53
    Morzer says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):

    It’s sane, reasonable and well written. I don’t know that it says anything that we haven’t heard before about how corrupt and inept our media and military “geniuses” are. The most depressing thing is that we seem destined just to get more of the same, year in year out, regardless of what the country might actually want.

  54. 54
    askew says:


    It’s basically just a way to shut any and all conversation and it’s aggravating to say the least. Maybe I should swear a blood oath that I will be voting for Dem nominee just so I can ask a question of HRC.

    That’s it exactly. The Hillary supporters said the exact same thing in 2007-08. She was inevitable and you dare not ask about any of her policy positions. I still haven’t been able to get an answer on what she’s accomplished in public office. I’ve been asking since 2007 and I either get a list of offices she has held but nothing about what’s she’s done while in office or I am told that I should just vote for a Republican then.

    I assume it is because they know Hillary is a paper tiger and she doesn’t stand up to scrutiny so their only hope is to just yell shut up when anyone asks a question about her.

  55. 55
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Morzer: yeah. He’s presidential. I could see the press eating that up, though. He’s so colorful!

  56. 56
    hueyplong says:

    Regarding Steve King and the Redskins, did he elaborate on Tyrant Obama’s involvement in the PTO’s similar ruling in 1999? Does anyone know if the right wingers were up in arms about this between 1999 and 2003, when the Redskins eventually won their appeal?

    Unfortunately, Snyder will make out like a bandit. Rush Limbaugh will whip up his listeners into a frenzy of Redskins merchandise buying to stick it to the Kenyan and support Traditional American Values, and then when the name is changed, actual Washington fans will all buy the new stuff.

    The “good” news is that Snyder will then blow the money on under-performing free agents.

  57. 57
    askew says:

    @David Koch:

    @Morzer: I listen to Stephanie Miller’s show and she and her side kick are openly gay and they’ve been saying for years that Cantor was gay.

    I can’t imagine that anyone who was going to vote for Cantor changed their mind because of something they heard on a liberal radio show.

    I’ve heard rumors about Lindsay Graham and Mitch McConnell but nothing about Cantor.

  58. 58
    Old Dan and Little Ann says:

    @Suffern ACE: Right. 30 seconds after I tune into the MLB Network Hanley goes and fucks it all up. And now he’s out of the game. No hitter is still possible. Which is always fun to see.

  59. 59
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Morzer: Manning was basically a kid when all of this started. I knew it was all bullshit, but did she? What we old and cynical fucks thought might not be the point. Worth a thought.

  60. 60
    Corner Stone says:

    @askew: I’m sorry you doubt President Obama, and his ability to make high level personnel decisions.
    I always thought Geithner was a poor decision, so I guess I feel ya.

  61. 61
    lamh36 says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): I am willing to cop to my part in distributing or OT-ing the thread, but I figured since the tag line was Foreign Affairs and Failed Media Experiment I figured it was relevant to the conversation and I had just read about it on twitter. I won’t cop to the people taking it as HRC-bashing and running with it. That the usual for some on here these days

    Good night to all yall BJ night owls.

  62. 62
    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN) says:

    @Old Dan and Little Ann: Hey, he’s on track for a Better Than Perfect Game: 28 consecutive outs.

  63. 63
    Corner Stone says:


    I won’t cop to the people taking it as HRC-bashing and running with it

    Do you even…man, irony, she really is ded.

  64. 64
    Old Dan and Little Ann says:

    I’ve definitely seen more no-hitters broken up in the 9th over the years than not. 1 down.

  65. 65
    ⚽️ Martin says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Just read it. Here’s my challenge with the piece. I don’t question anything that she’s saying there. Let’s imagine Obama coming into office at the start of 2009. The economy at home is completely blowing the fuck up, and the rest of the world is going along with it. You have this war which is further bankrupting us and it’s going poorly, but you have this out – the agreement to stay is soon going to run out, they have a government, but it’s shit and likely to blow the country up eventually. Do you double down on Iraq and try and fix the problems you’re now discovering, trying to sell that against an unemployment rate that is skyrocketing and people getting kicked out of their houses, or do you put the best sheen on Iraq and get the fuck out? I suppose you could come clean on all the problems there, but you’re basically going to force it to blow up at that point, which not only is worse for them, but probably jeopardizes our ability to get out.

    I just don’t see any good outcome there. You’re fucked no matter what – you’re just picking how. The problems were 6 years old, and the news out of the other war wasn’t any better. It doesn’t seem like an environment in which you can actually make things better, you can pretty much only stop them from getting worse.

  66. 66
    mai naem says:

    @David Koch: I wouldn’t be shocked if Cantor was gay but I wonder if it’s just his exaggerated Southern accent. The two people who scream gay to me are Ted Cruz and Chief Justice John Roberts.

  67. 67
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @⚽️ Martin: I don’t disagree with you about the larger situation, but some confused and angry PFC with too much access could well go a different way.

  68. 68
    Ruckus says:

    They are the mirror image of teatards. They will allow no discussion, no questions, nothing that might hint of an actual issue.
    And of course many of us have issues with Hillary. That’s why we say, not voting for her in the primary but will if she is in the general. We all know she’s better than any republican, and especially any one that can win any primary. We just don’t know if she’s better than some other democrat. And as we don’t actually have royalty in this country I’m not ready for a coronation either.

  69. 69
    ⚽️ Martin says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): No question, and I think this is where government (and industry) regularly get things wrong. They see situations like Manning’s and come to the wrong conclusions. When you ask the public to join the military and to this difficult thing for relatively little money, you are appealing to their honor and faith in the country. When the military fails to keep up their end of the deal (and this applies to any organization) then they seriously risk those individuals turning against them, either in a hostile manner or in a way that they believe will rebalance the situation, which might end up being hostile. And they respond to this by clamping down, increasing punishments, and so on, rather than addressing the disconnect between what was promised and what was delivered.

    Now, that’s an ongoing problem that can be fixed. I can’t tell if anything is really being done to fix it but if anything it’s been small. Perhaps that hole is so deep that nobody knows how to get out of it.

  70. 70
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Ruckus: I am not willing to start disparaging Hillary until a viable alternative candidate walks on stage. I ain’t throwing thunderbolts at this point.

  71. 71
    Kropadope says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Do you expect Hillary to work to appeal to people or another candidate to feel like it’s time to jump in the ring if people don’t appear hungry for another option?

    It’s early primary season before the midterm elections. What better time to talk about what we expect out of our elected representatives?

    True, Hillary won’t be on the ballot this year. However, because she is talked about so frequently and because people across the internet only have national politicians in common, she serves as a proxy for that fight unless a specific other politician is the subject.

  72. 72
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Pretty much how I feel as well.

  73. 73
    ⚽️ Martin says:

    @Kropadope: Problem is that everything you say about Hillary, pro or con, just puts more money in her campaign. If you really want alternatives, talk about the alternatives, not about Hillary.

  74. 74
    Kropadope says:

    @⚽️ Martin: I could talk about what high hopes I had for Brian Schweitzer after the last D convention and how he’s dashed them, but that’s depressing too.

    What’s the deal with the soccer ball by the way? How does one get something like that?

  75. 75
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Kropadope: I have no idea what you are trying to say.

    @Kropadope: If you had high hopes for Schweitzer, you were at best wrong, and, more likely, given your recent posts, a silly person.

  76. 76
    Kropadope says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): I’m trying to say that the general idea that would should support the party no matter what clown they put up is going to put us in a bad place. Hillary’s given me no reason to believe she wouldn’t lead us into every dumb war that presents itself and ineptly try to implement the domestic agenda that I (unfortunately) share with her.

    Whenever I try to ask a supporter why I should sign on, all I get is “team blue uber alles. Yes Hillary, yes Hillary, yes yes yes.”

  77. 77
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Kropadope: Bullshit. At least, it is bullshit on this ‘site. What you get here is that, if she is the nominee, people will vote for her. I haven’t actually seen a lot of active pro-HRC advocacy.

  78. 78
    Kropadope says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): BS. Every comment questioning Hillary on anything is met with demands that it’s important to support a D, no matter what, if that’s the D you have. Not from everyone, but it happens reliably. That’s what happened here to lamh and askew before I came in.

    Corner Stone is particularly bad. That creature trolls everyone for responses, it tried bring Hillary into a completely unrelated thread I was posting on earlier.

  79. 79
    Ruckus says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
    But isn’t that exactly what so many are doing by saying no vote primary, vote in general?
    But there are legit questions that have never been answered. I realize that it is a ways out but I’d like it if she would declare or decline at some time in the near future. If she declares then she can work for this years elections(5 months away) and her future. If she declines, that’s than and we can move on, while there is plenty of time to work with other candidates.

  80. 80
    Corner Stone says:

    @Kropadope: You have absolutely no idea where you are right now, do you?
    You think I somehow demand something? Shit.

  81. 81
    Corner Stone says:

    “Hey! I’m Kropiedopie! I think any R is better in the WH than Hillarity! Honk if you agreeeeeee!”

  82. 82
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Kropadope: I think that most of agree the the D. whoever he/she is, will be miles better than the R. Do you disagree?

    @Ruckus: I have said that she is probably not my vote in the primary, so, sure. I am talking with a particular dumbass, the one referred to above.

  83. 83
    Kropadope says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): I think she would delegitimize our cause on domestic policy, completely inept. I think she’s tied with all the worst on foreign policy.

  84. 84
    Corner Stone says:

    “Hate Hillary? Then follow this one weird trick to keep her shtum in 2016.”

  85. 85
    Corner Stone says:


    I think she’s tied with all the worst on foreign policy.

    Oh my. I guess I never realized how very little you thought of President Obama’s foreign policy!
    Well, I kind of have to agree with you. Blithely killing every fucking thing that moved across 6+ MENA countries was pretty much the worst of the worst.

  86. 86
    Kropadope says:

    @Corner Stone: I’m willing to give her a chance. Make a case for her that isn’t “she’s a Democrat.” I’ve been waiting for days.

  87. 87
    Ruckus says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
    Understand. Don’t know why you are putting yourself through that much pain. For me, my BS meter has just been pegged for so long that I have to give it a rest. With pie. It’s almost like thorazine for my BP.

  88. 88
    Corner Stone says:


    Make a case for her that isn’t “she’s a Democrat.” I’ve been waiting for days

    Because if you elect her, it’s like getting Bill, too! It’s a two for one!
    Go fuck yourself, you fucking POS.

  89. 89
    Kropadope says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Because if you elect her, it’s like getting Bill, too! It’s a two for one!

    That’s certainly not an improvement.

    Go fuck yourself, you fucking POS.

    That’s about as much substance as you ever have to offer. Learn to think for yourself lemming.

  90. 90

    It’s a legitimate question. I doubt anyone has asked, because the media people in a position to ask are more interested in whether President McCain is going to send troops back to Iraq. I personally would wait on the question at least a year, maybe a year and a half. We don’t know who her competitors for the nomination are, and declaring who is ‘inevitable’ this far out is just blind guesswork based on name recognition. Pundits love it, but we really should not fall for their horse race narrative.

  91. 91
    J R in WV says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):


    If Manning’s actions were because she saw that the politicians and military leadership had a formal policy of misleading the citizenry about progress in country and the legitimacy of the Iraqi government’s actions, shouldn’t she be pardoned or at least have her sentence be commuted drastically?

    Can the people of the country make the correct decisions about the most important issues facing the nation when they’re being fed wholesale bullshit about one of those most important situations?

    How is the provision of a web of deceit to the public not criminal in the case of properly executing a war and getting hundreds of thousands of innocent people killed?

    In other words, when Manning reveals that war criminals are lying to us, how is she committing a crime?? Who exactly is the criminal here?

    When the war criminals make the action of revealing their crimes itself a crime, how is that legal, how is that moral?

    Why should the President wait until the end of his term before getting a brave and patriotic person who revealed the magnitude of the criminality of Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney out of prison, where (I have NO doubt) she is being mistreated?

    Is she still in military prison or another Federal prison where she can receive appropriate medical treatment ( i.e. hormonal therapy for the correction of her sexual identification (pardon me if I am not familiar with the correct medical terminology for this situation)?

  92. 92
    Gvg says:

    I would like someone to ask Hillary if she would send troops back into Iraq. we mostly hope for a better choice than her but think we would vote for her in the general. If anything could make it possible for another dem to think they could beat her in the primary it would be on an issue of the war. Hillary likes wars to well in my opinion. the public is tired of them. flat weary and not just democrats. it used to be said that women pols had to appear tougher on defense issues than men so people wouldn’t think they were too weak and that was assumed to be why Hillary was pro wars. let’s find out if she has wised up.
    My own impression is she lost 2008 because she was acting for the electorate that used to be instead of the one that was then. In other words she really did think that the country would not elect a black man and that is her thinking the people were prejudiced, not her own views. I think it’s a result of the protections she got as family of a president keeping her too far away from people. so I am afraid she may not know that war is not a good answer now. We’ll it’s better we find out now when someone else has time to jump in.
    Every discussion of her flaws needs the disclaimer we will still vote d not r in the general because we are all worried about 2010 and apathetic dem voters. Really worried. She seems like a weak candidate to me. Big on paper but really 2nd rate on substance. the repubs are nuts and bullies so it scares me the most likely candidate is so flawed.
    anyway this war issue is one where I think there is a big gap between her assumed but not confirmed position is not like our voters. I also don’t know where any of the other possibles stand but let’s wish they get asked too. not that the MSM is likely to actually try to get the answers…..

  93. 93
    lawguy says:

    @Corner Stone: Rock meet Hard Place?

  94. 94
    Svensker says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):

    Weird as hell. Has anyone beside Corner Stone and me even mentioned the Manning piece?

    What kind of world do we live in where Manning is in jail and Cheney & Co. are on the TV and making big wads of money?

    That’s what the Manning piece made me think.

  95. 95
    Cervantes says:

    @Svensker: Seconded.

  96. 96
    Someguy says:

    Schweitzer is so right-on. All Southern men are gay and effeminate. No doubt that’s why they have NASCAR, hunting and fishing, big pickemup trucks and binge drinking and racism and Republican voting patterns and the college football obsession and Hooters. It’s not who they actually are; they just do all that stuff to compensate and they’re all soooo soooooo gay that it takes that much to compensate. Inside of every tar paper shack is a modernist kitchen, tastefully decorated, from which the Bubbas and Juniors and Treys feel free to swan around in the stereotypical way alluded to by Schweitzer, and serve petits fours to all their male friends, over to watch some HGTV and diss on the Golden Globes… Schweitzer’s gaydar tells him this.

    Holy shit. What is Schweitzer running for, President of Cloud Cuckoo Land?

  97. 97
    Corner Stone says:


    No doubt that’s why they have NASCAR, hunting and fishing, big pickemup trucks and binge drinking and racism and Republican voting patterns and the college football obsession and Hooters.

    Well, I’ve got the racism and the college football obsession. Looks like I’m going to have to go new truck shopping and pick a favorite driver so I can bone up on my quotient of “manly”.
    I wouldn’t want The Gov to start getting pings on me when I insouciantly pass by.
    Oh shit. I just used the word insouciant. I must be gayer than I thought. He was proven fucking right!

  98. 98
    Chopper says:


    Don’t worry. 3 weeks after Hils wins the election CS will drop off the face of the earth rather than sit here rationalizing every time she appoints an even bigger shmuck to her cabinet than the last guy.

  99. 99
    Someguy says:

    @Corner Stone:

    You said you need to bone up! Per The Book of Schweitzer, that makes you at least half gay. That means you should probably move to Macon Georgia and begin a new career as a timber sports competitor, and chewing tobacco spokesman. And watch more NASCAR. Otherwise people – and by people I mean Mr. Schweitzer – will begin to think you are light in the Hush Puppies Classic Suede Brogues, which go impeccably with your blue seersucker.

    But seriously, we should be grateful that he’s pre-gaffing. That way, we won’t have to take him seriously at all ever and waste time thinking about him unitl his inevitable gaffe implosion during primary season.

  100. 100
    Corner Stone says:

    @Chopper: If she has Arne Duncan as her Sec Ed or Timmy Geithner in any role then I can assure you they will be perfectly acceptable candidates by me. Delightful!

  101. 101
    Corner Stone says:


    and begin a new career as a timber sports competitor

    I do like getting my hands on some big wood, so you may have a point.
    Raven, your next roomie is GA inbound!

  102. 102
    WaterGirl says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): @⚽️ Martin: @J R in WV: @Svensker:

    I mostly skip these longer reads from Anne Laurie, and I skipped this one because I had no idea who wrote it and why I should care about what “Another survivor of Dubya’s Excellent Iraq Adventure” would have to say.

    Based on your comments, though, I figured out it was written by Manning and decided to read it.

    I agreed with pretty much everything you guys wrote, and I would love to see the president to commute Manning’s sentence before he leaves office. There are a lot of mitigating circumstances there and I think Manning was trying to do the right thing, even there was poor judgment involved.

    Just like Bowe Bergdahl, there may have been poor judgment, but that’s no reason to throw a life down the drain. These are just young kids, and if they are fragile in any way they just get screwed.

  103. 103
    chopper says:

    @Corner Stone:

    she’s going to put somebody at treasury far, far worse than geithner. i don’t expect you’ll be around to try to spin it as a positive. maybe i’ll be pleasantly surprised.

  104. 104
    The Republic of Stupdity says:

    … the news available to the public was flooded with foggy speculation and simplifications…

    As good a one line description of the MSM as you’ll find these days…

  105. 105
    Corner Stone says:

    @chopper: Worse than Geithner? She’s told you her cabinet picks? Please tell me I got Labor!

  106. 106
    chopper says:

    @Corner Stone:

    no, you get to run ACF. since you did such a bang-up job with your family.

  107. 107
    WaterGirl says:

    @chopper: wow, that seems out of bounds to me.

  108. 108
    chopper says:


    you ever read the shit CS throws around?

  109. 109
    Corner Stone says:

    @chopper: American Culinary Federation?
    I do enjoy cooking, but maybe Keith G would be a better pick?

  110. 110
    WaterGirl says:

    @chopper: When the name calling starts, I usually skip on by. But I always read your comments and it seemed out of bounds, to me, to throw someone’s personal relationships into the mix.

    Maybe CS does that all the time, in which case I think that’s way out of bounds. Maybe I hold the non-shit-throwers to a higher standard? That hardly seems fair.

    Edit: It wasn’t my intention to try to police the thread, carry on.

  111. 111
    chopper says:


    shrug. tweaking trolls is a time-honored tradition here, and i’ll be damned if i give that up.

    @Corner Stone:

    swing, and a miss.

  112. 112
    WaterGirl says:

    @chopper: Fair enough!

    Edit: I should have probably just stayed out of it.

  113. 113
    Corner Stone says:

    @WaterGirl: chopper knows I am very sensitive, and that I place great weight on my perceived standing in this community. He’s a vicious brute who cares nothing for nobody if he gets the chance to wound a vulnerable contributor. It’s hard to imagine you haven’t noticed this persistent trait before now.
    He’s like the pit bull in the backyard of life.

  114. 114
    The Watcher says:

    @Corner Stone: Legit Question: Has your d*ck always been this tiny?

  115. 115
    Corner Stone says:

    @The Watcher: Far as I can remember. Why do you think I own so many guns?

Comments are closed.