Conspiracy Theory

I’m watching the rock and roll Hall of Fame induction ceremony, and they just inducted Grohl and Nirvana, and I just cringed the entire time Courtney Love talked. I am not a fan of conspiracy theories, and I hate speculating on unconfirmed shit, but I have always thought she killed Cobain. I have no facts or anything at my disposal, but I just think they were all fucked up and something happened.

Grohl’s speech was predictably awesome.

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175 replies
  1. 1
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    I like Courtney. She and Cobain were a toxic mixture, to be sure, but I don’t buy that she killed him. What was in it for her?

    ETA: I’ll start posting Hole videos if I need to.

  2. 2
    Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers) says:

    I am not a fan of conspiracy theories

    No conspiracy theorist ever is.

  3. 3
    Long Tooth says:

    “Take it easy. A lot of terrible people have been knighted” [paraphrase].

    Charlie Watts to Keith Richard, upon Sir Mick slithering up that weird royal ladder-thing some British take such pride in. Keith was righteously pissed off when he heard about it, and it took Charley’s sage observation to calm him down.

  4. 4
    MikeJ says:

    No way she could have done it. Courtney’s alright, even if she is loopy.

  5. 5
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): You can skip the videos. They were indeed a toxic combination, and it there was nothing in it for her to have killed him.

    Can I brag here about getting a teaching award this week from the 4th year psychiatry residents at our CoM? It was really exciting. I did 3 didactics for them, and it was so cool to get it at an event where everyone else who got one was a Psychiatrist of Pharmacist.

  6. 6
    Yatsuno says:

    I am not a fan of conspiracy theories, and I hate speculating on unconfirmed shit, but I have always thought she killed Cobain.

    Not directly. But their relationship was oil and water from the start. She was at best oblivious to the pain he was feeling.

  7. 7
    Belafon says:

    Dave Grohl was inducted based on his performance in the Muppets.

  8. 8
    Jose Arcadio Buendía says:

    She didn’t pull the trigger, but I would have probably sucked a shotgun too after a while living with her.

  9. 9
    Hal says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): I’m no Courtney Love fan, but Live Through This is a great album. Love always seemed physically dirty to me, like she would have constant BO.

    Oh, and what was the basis for the Courtney killed Cobain rumors? Was there something suspicious or is it that people just don’t like her?

  10. 10
    Gravenstone says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): I was pleasantly surprised with her performance in “The People vs. Larry Flynt”.

  11. 11
    Tommy says:

    I’ve never been famous. But might have had a relationship like Courtney and Kurt at a smaller level and I kind of understand. Drugs. It is a fucked up thing. The only way she killed him was partying with him and not making him stop. If that is murder there are like a ton of people doing the same thing now and have for all of time.

  12. 12
  13. 13
    gbear says:

    they just inducted Grohl and Nirvana

    Did Grohl get inducted individually or are you just mentioning his name as a member of Nirvana. I can see Nirvana in the Hall of Fame, Grohl not so much…

  14. 14
    Porco Rosso says:

    The weapon was the Abstinence Violation Effect, in Courtney’s hands it was deadly.

  15. 15
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Long Tooth: Keith was upset at Mick joining the establishment that had tried to crush them years before, not upset that Mick because Mick was unworthy of an honor. At least, that is what he said in his autobiography.

  16. 16
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Long Tooth:
    Actually Sir Mick hasn’t moved even a millimeter in the direction of becoming royalty. His knighthood is a life peerage, which means the title dies with him. Only the real aristocracy get to pass down their titles.

    And I think there’s more than a grain of truth in Mick’s observation that Keith was upset mainly because he, Mick, got an ice-cream and Keith didn’t get one too.

  17. 17
    Roger Moore says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    His knighthood is a life peerage

    A knighthood isn’t any kind of peerage. It makes him officially a member of the gentry but not the nobility. AFAIK, the only people getting any hereditary title in the UK these days are members of the royal family, like the Duke of Cambridge. All the other titles (both noble and gentle) are for life only.

  18. 18
    Long Tooth says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Damn, the nitpickers are out in force tonight.

  19. 19
    Karen in GA says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Brag, by all means! Congratulations!

    I missed the beginning with Peter Gabriel, so my husband rewound it so I could see it from the beginning. I didn’t want him to, though. So now I’m still seeing Hall & Oates. And I can’t seem to find Chris Kattan’s “I’m Oates” SNL sketch online. I am sad.

    And I have to wake up early tomorrow. Doing the Pediatric Brain Tumor Foundation Ride for Kids. I wouldn’t say no if anyone wanted to donate — it’s a good cause. Here’s where to go if you wish to indulge my cause whoring.

  20. 20
    bago says:

    I live in Seattle, have had some friends murdered by a gun-nut in a rampage, and had a roommate die of a heroin overdose. No need to cast aspersions.

  21. 21
    Roger Moore says:

    @Long Tooth:

    Damn, the nitpickers are out in force I’m fucking up a lot tonight.

    FTFY.

  22. 22
    🌷 Martin says:

    @Hal:

    Oh, and what was the basis for the Courtney killed Cobain rumors? Was there something suspicious or is it that people just don’t like her?

    There’s a bunch of stuff, but one that seems to stick with a lot of people is that the toxicology report showed that he had a lethal dose of heroin in him, but the drug paraphernalia was somewhat put away. The suggestion was that he was so heavily drugged he was in no condition to roll down his sleeves, put stuff away, get the gun, and shoot himself. Apparently people that die from that kind of dose still have the needle in them when they’re found.

    That it took 4 days to find him in his own house is also fairly suspicious, considering that Courtney had been looking for him the entire time.

  23. 23
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): One of these days I’m gonna get around to reading that book. KR’s interview with Terri Gross was pretty funny, as they were thanking each other at the end he said “Cheers, Darling, Good try”. Terri Gross responded with a WTF-infussed “Uh.. thank you”.

  24. 24
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @Yatsuno: Thanks!

    @Karen in GA: Great cause; thanks for the link. And of course thanks for participating (and also your congrats!)

  25. 25
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Amir Khalid: Pedant alert: A knighthood is not a peerage of any kind. Knighthoods have always been individual and not hereditary. A Baronetcy gives one the title of “Sir” and is hereditary, but is not a knighthood. Some of the real English aristos don’t have titles (e.g. Winston Churchill, the elder son of a younger son of the Duke of Marlborough).

    Yes, during a job that I had in the army, I had to learn a shitload of protocol and social rankings in Europe. Here is a question: does the oberbergermeister of a city outrank the local fuerst when seated at a forma dinner? Answer: yes and no. Seat people at several tables with one at the most prestigious table but not as the guest of honor but the other at the next most prestigious table but in the guest of honor position. Fucking pain in the ass.

  26. 26
    Lyrebird says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Fan Flipping Tastic!!!!

  27. 27
    Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers) says:

    @Long Tooth:

    Put your teeth back in and maybe your life will get better.

  28. 28
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Roger Moore:
    “Life peerage” is the term I’ve heard Britons themselves use for a title like Mick’s. Not all life peers are knights and Dames; there’s Lord Sebastian Coe the former track star, who’s a commoner. That aside, I think we’re in agreement.

  29. 29
    Crusty Dem says:

    but I have always thought she killed Cobain

    Uh. No. They were just drug-addled assholes, Cobain was at least as annoying as Love, but we always remember the young dead too fondly. If he hadn’t put a shotgun in his own mouth, everyone would be wishing that he had…

  30. 30
    hilts says:

    Kiss sucks dick and it’s a fucking travesty that these bums are in the Hall of Fame while King Crimson, Roxy Music, Yes, Emerson, Lake and Palmer, Hot Tuna, Little Feat, and Joan Baez have yet to be inducted.

  31. 31
    Disco says:

    The thing that is more fucked up to me is that Nirvana are even eligible for the hall (25 years since first recording). Good grief.

  32. 32
    Jewish Steel says:

    @MikeJ: That’s my impression of her. I think Kurt loved her a lot.

    Rock dudes, John, do not generally lead super healthy lifestyles to begin with. Add money and the power to make choices that comes with money? Easy for sensitive, artsy types to go off the rails.

  33. 33
    fnook says:

    Who knows. I was in Seattle riding my bike wverywhere with my beat friend who was a frat boy at UW. I think I was in Seattle Center, on my bike with friend, stoned, when Love gave a speach shortly after the death. I’ve no idea if she pulled the trigger. I doubt it though given the hugeness of Cobain’s internal life and substance addictions.

  34. 34
    The Dangerman says:

    @Disco:

    The thing that is more fucked up to me is that Nirvana are even eligible for the hall (25 years since first recording).

    Or that they are in the HOF based on one album (a good album, sure, but still…)

    ETA: If I had a dollar for every time the Seattle authorities have come out and said “suicide, case closed”, I’d be driving a much nicer car. No conspiracy.

  35. 35
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: The book was great. Two things stood out to me. First, Keith’s love of music and the guitar. his descriptions of learning things like five string, open chord playing just radiate with love. Second, his hatred for the establishment that attacked the Stones in the late 60s is palpable.

  36. 36
    big daddy says:

    @hilts:

    Agreed… who the hell puts a band like guns n roses in the rnr hall of fame?

  37. 37
    Cowiche says:

    Who knows. I was in Seattle riding my bike wverywhere with my beat friend who was a frat boy at UW. I think I was in Seattle Center, on my bike with friend, stoned, when Love gave a speach shortly after the death. I’ve no idea if she pulled the trigger. I doubt it though given the hugeness of Cobain’s internal life and substance addictions.

  38. 38
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Long Tooth: Read the fucking book.

  39. 39
    Amir Khalid says:

    For what it’s worth, it does seem conceivable that Courtney Love drove Kurt Coban to suicide rather than killing him herself. She was and is that messed up, I reckon, and his own set of problems made him vulnerable. But I don’t think she meant to do it.

  40. 40
    Time Travelin' says:

    Can we talk about Lorde’s spectacular star turn? She’s 17 and blew away all the all-star veterans during the Nirvana set. She is a no doubt superstar in the making. Wow.

  41. 41
    Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers) says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Rather like Philip Larkin’s mum and dad in the famous poem:

    http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/178055

    They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
    They may not mean to, but they do.
    They fill you with the faults they had
    And add some extra, just for you.

    But they were fucked up in their turn
    By fools in old-style hats and coats,
    Who half the time were soppy-stern
    And half at one another’s throats.

    Man hands on misery to man.
    It deepens like a coastal shelf.
    Get out as early as you can,
    And don’t have any kids yourself.

  42. 42
    Time Travelin' says:

    @Amir Khalid: Kurt was extremely messed up physically and heroin-wise long before Courtney came along.

  43. 43
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    Also too, I am a bit agnostic about Grohl. Foo Fighters are okay; I don’t love them. Bleach, Nevermind, and In Utero are superior to anything the Foo Fighters have done.

    I know, them may be fighting words.

  44. 44
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): I loved the book, and you mention what struck me as well. Keith’s obvious and enduring love of music and his instrument, and his visceral and unending hatred of the establishment of the 60s.

  45. 45
    lamh36 says:

    Alright now Dick Van Dyke’s still got it

    @denisleary 23h

    Father Time can suck it. Dick Van Dyke Dancing In A Store At Age 88:

    https://vine.co/v/MdDahpt9ExI

  46. 46
    James E. Powell says:

    Nirvana & Guns n’ Roses in the Hall of Fame. Each band gets in on the strength of 1-1/2 really good albums. Or maybe there are some other factors of which I am not aware.

  47. 47
    Yatsuno says:

    So yeah. Andrea Mitchell is a disgusting human.

  48. 48
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Yeah, Mick still seems to be his best friend, but Keef just cannot grok Mick’s desire for establishment acceptance. Mick probably sees it as having won. I see both as valid viewpoints.

  49. 49
  50. 50
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    @🌷 Martin:
    It’s conceivable to me that Love found him dying/dead of the od and decided that it would be better for posterity if he killed himself so…

  51. 51
    Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers) says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate:

    If ever I was in any danger of taking up with Courtney Love, that speculation of yours has just ended it.

  52. 52
    kindness says:

    Courtney only killed Kurt Cobain as in he was so sick of that shit that even heroin wasn’t numbing him enough, so he got a 16 gauge and that did the trick. Terrible snark. Sorry. I don’t hate Courtney I just don’t think about her at all. Kurt was in a fucked up place when he did himself in. I wish he had found a better way to get through it but he didn’t.

    I miss Garcia more.

  53. 53
    Roger Moore says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    “Life peerage” is the term I’ve heard Britons themselves use for a title like Mick’s.

    It’s incorrect. Sir Mick is a knight bachelor, i.e. a knight but not a member of one of the standard orders of knighthood like a KBE. Knights, regardless of type, are styled “Sir” or “Dame”. A life peer is somebody who has received a non-hereditary title of nobility and would be styled “Lord” or “Baroness”. The most important distinction is that life peers are entitled to a seat in the House of Lords, which knights like Sir Mick are not.

  54. 54
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @kindness: Generational thing?

  55. 55
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): I see both as well, but my heart is always with Keef. And I get why he’s confused by Mick’s conversion.

    I also love the story he told in an interview about how Johnny Depp was

    “a mate of Marlon’s.I didn’t ask because, you know, drug dealer. But one night he was having dinner and I looked a cross the table and thought, ‘Whoa – Scissorhands’.”

    It still cracks me up.

  56. 56
    gbear says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): I’m with you on that one. He’s a great drummer, but Foo Fighters are more of a business than a band.

  57. 57
    David Koch says:

    Courtneyghazi!

  58. 58
    Long Tooth says:

    @Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers): Huh? A knowledge of Rolling Stones history does not a Gabby Hayes make.

  59. 59
    gbear says:

    @James E. Powell:

    Or maybe there are some other factors of which I am not aware.

    The music industry pukes made a shit-ton of money off of them.

  60. 60
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @gbear: I think Everlong is a great song, but I’ve been deeply meh on the rest of their stuff

  61. 61
    The Dangerman says:

    @James E. Powell:

    Nirvana & Guns n’ Roses in the Hall of Fame. Each band gets in on the strength of 1-1/2 really good albums…

    There was some quality stuff on UYI I and II. I don’t know that I’ve ever heard anything from Nirvana’s first; their last produced one song of note, Heart Shaped Box, which was pretty much crap…

  62. 62
    Karen in GA says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): I don’t mind them, but I don’t love them. They’re good at what they do — I just don’t find what they do all that interesting.

  63. 63
    Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers) says:

    @Long Tooth:

    Well, if you’d rather roll with one freaky fang, it’s no skin off my perfectly shaped nose.

  64. 64
    John Revolta says:

    I read an interview with Courtney’s first husband and he sounded like he was still scared to death of her. She used to get guys to beat him up if he pissed her off somehow.

    Evan Dando’s got some lovely stuff to say about her too.

    I don’t say that she killed Kurt, but she’s a nasty piece of work. She probably could have made his life better rather than worse but then again…………..
    Kurt was worth an awful lot of money, wa’nee?

  65. 65
    pseudonymous in nc says:

    All I know that I saw some Nirvana clips a couple of months ago, for the first time in a while, and Kurt looked young. Which he was. But I was younger then, and now I’m not.

    Anyway, I’m listening to clips from Slowdive’s live gigs from the past couple of weeks, because I was always of the shoey ilk.

  66. 66
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Roger Moore: Right, Coe is a life peer who sits in the House of Lords. Mick is a knight, which title does not mean anything except socially.

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I am a Keef guy as well. A salt of the earth guy who just happens to be worth 100s of millions. The thing I like about KR, though, is the impression that he gives that if the band is booked to play the Wautoma High School Senior Prom, he will say, “Okay. we have a gig. Let’s go play it..”

  67. 67
    Anoniminous says:

    Covering myself by the “music” tag …

    Very possibly the best cover of Mack the Knife ever by Jessye Norman.

  68. 68
    David Koch says:

    Grohl’s show stopping performance at the White House

  69. 69
    Long Tooth says:

    @Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers): Your gibberish is of outstanding caliber. My begging-to-be cut small toenail salutes you.

  70. 70
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Anoniminous: It don’t beat either Lotte or Ute.

  71. 71
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Time Travelin’: Lorde has chance to be amazing. I hope she takes it.

  72. 72
    Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers) says:

    @Long Tooth:

    You should listen to your toenail more often. It is clearly the sole bearer of such intelligence as you possess.

  73. 73
    pseudonymous in nc says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):

    Some of the real English aristos don’t have titles

    The most aristo aristos are the ones that have titles and don’t use them, because the title is more like a family heirlooms that gathers dust and can’t be sent to the charity shop.

    there’s Lord Sebastian Coe the former track star, who’s a commoner.

    Nah, he’s not a commoner, but he’s not an aristocrat. It’s complicated. That’s why the US has no titles of honour apart from “Coach”.

  74. 74
    patrick II says:

    After way too long, the great Linda Rondstadt finally got into the rock and roll hall of fame this year. One of the greatest voices of all time, and a serious crush from my early years.

  75. 75
    Disco says:

    I don’t get the Nirvana complaints. Bleach is a great album, and Incesticide was also great. Nevermind is overproduced in my opinion. In Utero, well, I just never understood it. I think Cobain had run out of ideas by that point.

  76. 76
    mclaren says:

    @Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers):

    “I am not a fan of conspiracy theories.”

    So you don’t believe that Watergate or the Iran-Contra scandal or the 2003 invasion of Iraq actually happened?

    Do tell.

    Must be interesting living on your planet.

  77. 77
    Jewish Steel says:

    Some of you might like this lugubrious Yorkshirman I discovered last week. If you haven’t heard of him already. Interesting, French delivery and really first rate word smithing.

    http://youtu.be/0OWdT-i4GFE

    Jake Thackray.

  78. 78
    gbear says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Terry Gross did an intereview with Gene Simmons from Kiss.that is just amazing. He was deeply rude and sexually insulting through the whole interview to the point that Terry was kind of losing it. Simmons withheld permission for the show to ever be re-broadast, so it’s the stuff of ledgend. A couple months later, Al Franken was on the show and he had a story about ending up in a handball match with Simmons where Simmons just kept saying ‘I’m gonna kick your assss” while losing to Franken. Terry got a REALLY good laugh out of that story.

  79. 79
    Long Tooth says:

    @Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers): You might well be right.

    But the deed has been done (“clip, clip”).

    My toenail’s dying words to me were, “For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also”.

  80. 80
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @pseudonymous in nc: Just to be clear, I did not make the comment about Coe.

  81. 81
    mclaren says:

    Just to correct the record and get rid of the outrageous smear against Courtney Love, Kurt Cobain had terrible lifelong digestive problems. Doctors, being the ignorant incompetent overpaid fools they are, could never find out what was wrong. That’s why Cobain wound up on heroin.

    “I know this sounds like a cop-out or a lame excuse, but I’ve been suffering from chronic stomach pain every day of my life for six years now. I’ve been to about eight different gastrointestinal doctors and it’s always been diagnosed as irritable bowel syndrome. I’ve had ten or eleven endoscopes, where they stick the fiber-optic tube with a camera down your throat, and they always find a red, inflamed piece of tissue in my stomach.

    “Imagine the worst stomach flu you’ve ever had, every single day. And it was worse when I ate, because once the meal would touch that red area I would hyperventilate, my arms would turn numb, and I would vomit. I was suicidal on our last tour. I really wanted to blow my head off. And so when we got home I decided to do heroin every day because obviously a heavy narcotic is going to stop the pain. The whole time I was doing drugs I didn’t have stomach problems.”

    Source: 1993 interview with Kurt Cobain.

    This is why he killed himself — endless unbearable stomach pain that the greedy halfwit fools with M.D.s could never diagnose or cure.

  82. 82
    Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers) says:

    @mclaren:

    Dear child, are you really so stupid that you didn’t realize I was quoting John Cole? You know, the person who put up the original post which you obviously didn’t bother to read before opening your ignorant little yap. You have heard of the blockquote box, yes? What do you think we use blockquotes for, exactly? Hmmm?

  83. 83
    Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers) says:

    @Long Tooth:

    And then you ate it with some fava beans and a fine Chianti.

  84. 84
    Anoniminous says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):

    I’ve got four maybe five recordings from Lenya and one of Lemper, which I throughly enjoy. But for vocal mastery: tone control, breath control, coloratura, etc., neither can match Norman. Which isn’t surprising since Norman is one of the best operatic sopranos in the world.

    I agree Lenya or Lemper would be a better fit for a production of Dreigroschenoper, if they swapped in a female for the street musician.

  85. 85
    Jewish Steel says:

    @Jewish Steel: and when I say “French delivery” I’m thinking of this guy :

    http://youtu.be/rslShTbqNbo

  86. 86
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @David Koch: Honestly, an insipid performance of an insipid song. McCartney wrote best when his pop genius was paired with a cynical bastard lyricist. I cite Lennon and Costello.

  87. 87
    Death Panel Truck says:

    @Long Tooth: That’s all anyone ever does here.

    Damn, the nitpickers are out in force I’m fucking up a lot tonight.

    When they’re not being sophomorically abusive.

  88. 88
    Amir Khalid says:

    It seems I have a lot to learn about the British honours system. All I really know about it is that the Malaysian one was more or less styled after it.

  89. 89
    patrick II says:

    @gbear:

    I heard the last half on that Terri Gross interview. Simmons was an unbelievable ass and for no good reason that I could figure out except perhaps that he was a sexist fuck who was intimidated talking to a woman who was so obviously smarter than him.

    I never liked Kiss much, but after that it became an active dislike.

  90. 90
    Jewish Steel says:

    @mclaren: Spot on.

    By 93 he supposedly had it licked, but, iirc, it came back with a vengeance in 94.

    http://youtu.be/gYlmulYxYyE

    Plus, all that self medication will fuck you up over time.

  91. 91
    Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers) says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Don’t worry. Judging by the stream of cash for honours scandals, the British people are still learning quite a bit about the system as well.

  92. 92
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Anoniminous: The performer and the part are inseparable in my mind. A discussion happened earlier today where someone mention Muddy Waters and his performances. First, if he performed the song, he owns it. Second he could make a third rate song brilliant by his performance.

  93. 93
    hilts says:

    @gbear:

    Gene Simmons set a new low with his asshole performance in that interview with Terry Gross.

  94. 94
    Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers) says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):

    That was a depressing performance, wasn’t it? You almost had the impression that they were sleepwalking through that piece.

  95. 95
    gbear says:

    @patrick II: I think he wanted to humiliate her because she was so obviously not going to adore him or put out for him (Hmm, where have we seen this before recently?), He was an unbeleivable asshole.

  96. 96
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers): It was horrible. Like I said above, I am Not a huge Foo Fighters fan, but that just bit. I admire the President for staying awake through it.

  97. 97
    Suffern ACE says:

    @big daddy: GNR’s great album is as good, if not better than Nirvana’s great album. Why shouldn’t they be in?

  98. 98
    Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers) says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):

    The President does have a talent for staying resolutely straight-faced and looking attentive, even in the most unpromising circumstances.

  99. 99
  100. 100
    KG says:

    Cobain struck me as someone who was not well equipped to handle fame. And Nirvana was on the edge of becoming one of the bands of a generation. As sad as it is to say, I don’t know that it would have gone better for him had he lived.

  101. 101
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers): I am a bit upset that I have been sent down an Ute Lemper rabbit hole.

  102. 102
    Anoniminous says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):

    A cogent critical stance. Leaving me no alternative but to ask myself, “Is the Norman recording the most effective recording?” My immediate answer is, “No.”

    But I need to think about it.

  103. 103
    Suzanne says:

    I have never understood the Courtney-killed-Kurt contingent. I don’t know why it’s so hard for some people to believe that a known depressive (for years before he met Courtney) who wrote a song called “I Hate Myself And Want To Die” actually, you know, hated himself and wanted to die.

  104. 104
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Anoniminous: When and where was it written? How was it performed? OTOH, I like the Academy of Ancient Music recordings.

  105. 105
    Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers) says:

    @Suzanne:

    Give it enough time and Darrell Issa will probably “prove” that Obama paid Courtney to do it as a distraction from BENGHAZI!!!

  106. 106
    Suzanne says:

    BTW, and I know these are fighting words, but I think Live Through This and Celebrity Skin stand up as two of the best rock albums of the last few decades. At least equal to In Utero (Nirvana’s best album) and better than Nevermind,

  107. 107
    KG says:

    @Suzanne: it’s like anything else, the actual answer is unsatisfying on some level, so people create a more satisfying answer. That’s the heart of all conspiracy theories. It is unsatisfying that just some guy with a rifle can kill the president, so of course it has to be something else.

  108. 108
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers): Now, it all begins to make sense.

  109. 109
    angelfoot says:

    @Suffern ACE: Right. And it’s the Hall of Fame after all. Kiss, G&R, Nirvana were hugely popular and influential. So love ’em or hate ’em they all belong there.

  110. 110
    KG says:

    @Suzanne: I was in high school at Nirvana’s height. I am a true heritic in that I’ve never really cared for Nirvana

  111. 111
    Suzanne says:

    @Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers): I think Courtney is a riveting performer and I idolized her as a teenager, but I am well aware that she is not mentally healthy, either, and I have no doubt that their relationship, like most relationships between two creative, intelligent, and mentally ill people with access to lots of drugs, was volatile and passionate and not good in many ways. But it’s always struck me as a bitch hunt. It’s easy to throw her under the bus for surviving, and she’s also abrasive and loud and unapologetically into her career and that rubs people the wrong way. But murderous?! FFS.

  112. 112
    Suffern ACE says:

    @angelfoot: yeah. The hall of influence is in Akron and the hall of critical darlings that didn’t take off is in Moline.

  113. 113
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @KG: My recollection of the time of his “suicide attempt/accident” in Italy before he died, and the rumors/comments about him being kicked out of the band, was that it was clear that he was going to come to a bad end soon unless some serious intervention happened. Heroin has a bad history of doing that to people, whether or not they have a mad and/or disfunctional relationship with Courtney Love.

    The signs were there a year prior – Seattle Times from July 1993:

    Kurt Cobain, lead singer for the rock band Nirvana, was arrested June 4 for allegedly assaulting his wife, Courtney Love.

    Police reports described the incident as an argument over the presence of guns in the couple’s North Seattle house that led to a pushing match. Love said the two were playing loud music and wrestling, but she denied Cobain had assaulted her.

    “Kurt is not violent, he is not a wife-beater, we are the most compatible people on earth,” said Love, lead singer for the band Hole. Cobain didn’t want to be interviewed, but he was present while Love spoke over the phone.

    […]

    The rapid ride to stardom has been turbulent for Love and Cobain. Both have been outspoken in their opinions of other bands, and an unguarded comment by Love in an interview stirred rumors of heroin use. Cobain and Love have said they had a brief bout with the drug.

    “We knew when to stop,” said Love, now a mother. “Our daughter’s going to be 1 in a month. We’re just boring little kids in a punk rock band.”

    Heh, yeah. Maybe not so much. :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  114. 114

    The NSA is taking hundreds of facial images from the Internet for the facial recognition program of Orwell’s nightmares:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06.....mages.html

    Is this the big story Greenwald was talking about? It doesn’t have his byline. No, he said specifically he was doing names.

  115. 115
    Jewish Steel says:

    @Suzanne:

    But it’s always struck me as a bitch hunt.

    Me too.

  116. 116
    Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers) says:

    @Suzanne:

    I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that she and Cobain had a thoroughly mutually destructive relationship, since neither of them seems like a candidate for the Happy Bunny party. That said, I just can’t quite see her having the toughness to blow the guy’s head off That seems to me to demand a degree of cold resolution that Courtney Love does not, IMHO, possess.

  117. 117
    John Revolta says:

    Well, it’s this way. Kurt Cobain was a major talent and a bit of a groundbreaker as well. Now, lots of these types are, for whatever reason, somewhat unstable and tend to self-medicate. Whatever. What I’m saying is that he could have used a partner who loved him and wanted to help him get through life more easily. Instead he got a wife who would brag to people, “I made Kurt cry last night……………..”

    He wasn’t the first person to fall in love with the wrong person and he won’t be the last. But Courtney Love…………………….pfui.

  118. 118

    @The Dangerman: I think their best album is MTV Unplugged. All Apologies is riveting.

  119. 119
    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name) says:

    @Jewish Steel: Me three. And here is Violet.

  120. 120
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    Courtney Love is a worthless piece of shit. She didn’t kill Kurt, which is about the best thing you can say about her.

  121. 121
    MattR says:

    @Suffern ACE: I agree that Appetite for Destruction was a better album, but it was just a great hard rock album and I am not sure that GNR had enough good material to merit inclusion in the HOF. OTOH, Nevermind was a breakthrough for the entire alternative scene including the grunge sub-genre. Despite their limited output, Nirvana’s music was a tremendous influence on numerous other musicians as well as our culture as a whole. IMO, that makes them deserving of induction (or at least moreso than GNR)

  122. 122
    Yutsano says:

    OT: Teh ghey is now officially in Illinois.

  123. 123
    🌷 Martin says:

    @Joseph Nobles: Well, the NSA isn’t the only group doing this. The FBI has been doing it, as are private companies like Facebook. Hell, it wouldn’t take much effort using open-source tools to stitch together the name/image correspondence that already exists in Google/Facebook with open-source/OTS facial recognition software.

    Banning the NSA from doing it means that eventually the NSA will be the only ones without access to it.

  124. 124
    hilts says:

    @Joseph Nobles:

    Smile for the NSA

  125. 125
    Jewish Steel says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Ah, memories. I still had a lot of hair back then! sniff

  126. 126
    Jewish Steel says:

    @Yutsano: Nice to join civilization here in the Land of Lincoln.

    Hey, you got your name back!

  127. 127
    Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers) says:

    Well, apparently I can’t reply to Yutsano of the Many Names, but I am very glad that gay people can now marry in Illinois, even if we have to listen to another round of conservatives are the real victims of liberal intolerance as a result.

  128. 128
    Jewish Steel says:

    @Yatsuno: Nice to join civilization here in the Land of Lincoln.

    Hey, you got your name back!

  129. 129
    Jewish Steel says:

    @Jewish Steel: whoa, I think I upset fywp.

  130. 130
    scav says:

    @Yutsano: yes.

  131. 131
    GregB says:

    I remember my only takeaway after watching Sid and Nancy was: Thank God those horrible people have left the planet.

    I liked Cobain and Nirvana and definitely felt that Love must smell like BO, cigarettes and stale lunchmeat 80% of her waking hours.

  132. 132
    YellowJournalism says:

    @John (MCCARTHY) Cole: That album made me a Nirvana fan. That song in particular spoke to me when I was at a low point in high school. My mom bought me the CD for Christmas, and I listened to it endlessly for months.

    Cobain was a very troubled, self-tortured soul. Love didn’t help him any, and I think he put on a happy face for family members like his mother. I think she honestly tried to clean herself up and change directions after his death, with her “new look” and legit, charming acting turns, but it didn’t last. Unfortunately, I think their daughter got the worst of it all losing one parent to suicide and depression and the other parent to the more publicly nasty, hurtful side of drug abuse.

  133. 133
    Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn says:

    mclaren is right about the stomach pains (this appears in some of his songs), but that was only one of the many burdens Cobain bore. He was both far too fragile for this life as well as an explosively volatile raging asshole when his buttons were pushed, a public proponent of women’s rights that could tear into a female reporter with enough misogynistic invective to make a drunken good ol’ boy blush, feeling crushed by one of the most vile industries in the entertainment bizz, and likely riding that spiral downward when your go-to anesthetic begins to be less and less effective. In other words, a troubled, complicated youth not meant to be long for this world. That’s what makes – love ’em or leave ’em – songs like the ones off In Utero so raw. He wasn’t writing to be clever. He was nearing his wit’s end.

    Read his suicide note. He had obviously completely lost his way, but it wasn’t Courtney that made him reach for the ammo.

    Look, I don’t hold Love up as some sort of saint, but she’s no murderer. The whole “Courtney did it” dust got kicked in the mid ’90s by some local (Seattle) gumshoe trying to make hay out of Cobain’s demise, and the bullshit managed to migrate to the internets with relative ease. Cole, I love ya, guy, but you’re too smart to toss crap like this around offa the top of your head.

    So far as Grohl, is he still denying the link between HIV and AIDS? Mention his name to my wife, who has volunteered at a local hospice originally set up for AIDS patients in their last days, and she will curse like a merchant marine.

  134. 134
    GHayduke (formerly lojasmo) says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):

    She was an addict. Regular rules don’t apply. Trust me, I know how this works.

  135. 135
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Suzanne:

    Not to mention that she’s clearly documented as being 1,000 miles away at the time. But, hey, since she’s an evil bitch, I guess she was able to teleport there, kill him, and teleport back to Los Angeles before anyone noticed.

    This Rolling Stone article has a really well-researched timeline. Believing that Love killed Cobain is like thinking that Queen Elizabeth is running drugs from Buckingham Palace.

  136. 136
    GHayduke (formerly lojasmo) says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):

    Them is fighting words. Grohl has more talent in one sulcus than cobain had in his entire bean.

  137. 137
    YellowJournalism says:

    @Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn: It isn’t the first time I’ve read the note and it isn’t the last that it brings me to years. Here was someone who truly used his music to express his pain, his joy, and all the other emotions (good or bad) that he wasn’t able to control. He was never meant for fame.

  138. 138
    YellowJournalism says:

    @Mnemosyne: I watched that bullshit “documentary” about the conspiracy theory. I can’t help think that a lot of the speculation was rooted in a “how dare that bitch move on and be happy” mentality, since Love seemed to have a more stable life in the first years after his death, as if she benefitted somehow from it. I just think she had a wake-up call and tried to change directions for a while.

  139. 139
    Mnemosyne says:

    @YellowJournalism:

    Nick Broomfield is a very gullible man. He’s one of those Britons who’s absolutely convinced he understands America and Americans far better than he really does, and he got rooked by several people with an agenda.

  140. 140
    Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn says:

    @KG: “Nirvana was on the edge of becoming one of the bands of a generation.”

    Fixed that fer ya. One needn’t have liked the band to recognize that it touched the nerve of the largest, most disaffected number of youth since the ’60s; only, these kids saw that the peace/love approach their parents took turned into meaningless corporate bullshit.

    I didn’t even like Nevermind when it came out. When Seattle station KNDD – which was truly a fucking cool station in those days (note past tense) – would play one of its songs, I’d always turn the radio off and loudly lament how such a great station could play that abrasive crap. But eventually I did grant that the band got some good pop licks into their work.

    Then as Nirvana became the world’s #1 band, I found myself in my early 30s, newly divorced and single in the first time in a decade, my mom going through a lot of health issues I didn’t know how to deal with, and I hadn’t felt as lost in or confused by the world since my teens. So, yeah, Nirvana’s songs touched a nerve with me, too. I bought Nervermind and In Utero one day at the music store (kids, ask your parents), left the two unopened for a week, then when I actually played them, I played the HELL out of ’em. Four or so months later, Cobain’s body was found; the co-worker who broke the news to me looked at me and asked if I was going to be OK.

    Also, testify to the commentor who said Love showed up unannounced at the public memorial for him at the Space Needle grounds. I didn’t know she was there till about dusk, when I noticed a dense cluster of people seated on the ground around lighted candles. There she was, seated with them, sharing stories, memories. For all Love’s other follies, that move bought a lot of leeway for me. (And her own music was pretty damn good at that time, too.)

  141. 141
    Ruckus says:

    @Death Panel Truck:
    Really I’d bet that most here just would like people to bring at least a C level game. You start out 6-8 levels lower than that and never improve you’re going to be shown the showers.

  142. 142
    kdaug says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): You may, you did, and congrats.

  143. 143
    Suzanne says:

    @Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers): The thing that many Cobain fans seem loath to admit is that Courtney was the more stable one in the relationship. By all accounts, she used a smaller quantity of drugs, did not have the obsession with guns that her husband had, and did not have the known history of depression that Cobain had. And unlike her husband, she actually survived to at least be some sort of parental influence.

    The criticism that she was a bad parent while Cobain was an angel who did his daughter no wrong is the one that I think bothers me the most. The dude killed himself rather than see his daughter grow up. I understand that he had problems, but he does not get to even posthumously have the title of “good parent”.

  144. 144
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Suzanne: Exactly.

  145. 145
    Botsplainer says:

    @hilts:

    Emerson, Lake and Palmer

    Love Beach was a step too far, even for their pretentious art douche method.

    I say this as a guy who loved ELP and had every album they cut, most on vinyl.

  146. 146
    mcjulie says:

    @Suzanne: Yup. Funny how we forgive male geniuses for being incredibly fucked up. Female geniuses not so much.

  147. 147
    mcjulie says:

    Lately, my brain keeps trying to make a connection between Kurt Cobain and Amy Winehouse — it’s like, the whole time they were famous, you could see the doom coming, but they were so damn talented, you really, REALLY wanted to be wrong about the doom. But you weren’t wrong.

  148. 148
    uriel says:

    Just to be clear, we are all aware that it was the Seattle Police, and not Courtney Love, who determined that his death was a suicide, right? I mean, unless you can provide some really compelling, objective reason why the SPD would favor one flakey grunge rock-star (Courtney) over another, more popular one (Cobain), this entire discussion sits very firmly in the realm of uninformed conspiracy theory. Just saying…

  149. 149

    Queen Elizabeth gets the best shit is all I’m saying.

  150. 150
    J R in WV says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):

    Congratulations!

    Any pat on the back is a good thing, when you’re with a whole bunch of over educated science types it’s especially good. Nothing easy about sychology or Farmacy, so be proud to be with them!

  151. 151
    J R in WV says:

    @patrick II: I saw them in Philadelphia in 1970, or maybe 69, The Chambers Brothers opened and were great, I walked out after the Kinks were into their 3rd or 4th song. They were terrible, which was no surprise to me at all.

  152. 152
    NobodySpecial says:

    @Suzanne: Yep. Cobain’s been so burnished after his death. It always trips Nirvana fans’ triggers when I mention that Kurt wasn’t even the most talented member of his own band, let alone the new John Lennon.

  153. 153
    Sloane Ranger says:

    @Roger Moore: Talking about nit-picking as the comment below is, this is true regarding all recent peerages but people can and do still inherit peerages from older creations. It just doesn’t give you anything but bragging rights, unless you’re one of the elected heredity peers in the Lords.

    The last heredity peerage created was (I think) the Earl Mountbatton of Burma (and that supports your thesis as he would have been Prince Louis of Battenburg if it hadn’t been for WW1)

  154. 154
    John says:

    @Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers):

    Are these even really scandals? Cash for honors has existed virtually as long as honors have. I mean, the only reason the title of “baronet” exists is because James I needed to make some extra money by selling titles.

  155. 155
    thefax says:

    @Suzanne: Courtney was also keen on getting Kurt into rehab, and Kurt was keen on skipping out on rehab, which he did not long before he died. Courtney has always been one of the most narcissistic, annoying people on the planet, but suggesting she had some role in Cobain’s death is offensive. (Dare I say borderline sexist?)

  156. 156
    Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers) says:

    @John:

    Yes, they are scandals. Basically all the major parties have now been caught trading honors for political donations and the British public is very sensitive to even a hint of political corruption after the Great Expenses scandal. It is, of course, ironic when you consider that just about any title outside the royal family has historically been used as a means of keeping the big noble families in line or placating particularly dangerous ones.

  157. 157
    FDRLincoln says:

    Live Through This is one of my favorite albums of all time and I like it better than anything Nirvana did. It helped me cope when I became conscious of having been sexually abused as a child. Love is messed up but most great artists are…Roger Waters is another example…and even though they never matched it, Live Through This is a great work of art

  158. 158
    marduk says:

    Amazing that anyone would place GNR anywhere in the same universe as Nirvana. One of the top rock bands in history in terms of influence on other bands and pop music as a whole vs a crappy 80s hair metal act who made screechy screechy?

    I mean honestly, GNR was the worst band by far to appear on their own inaugural Appetite for Destruction tour-

    The Cult – far better
    Mötley Crüe – the band the GNR cookie cutter was based on, with a better vocalist
    Alice Cooper- no contest
    Iron Maiden- no contest
    Aerosmith- the band the Mötley Crüe cookie cutter was based on, with more talent at every position

    TLDR – Guns n Roses sucked monkey balls. I lived it. They sucked then, they sucked as long as they were a band, they still suck to this day.

  159. 159
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @thefax: Nothing borderline about it. It’s all the way over into totally sexist. Misogyny is a very real thing here in the US; we just like to pretend it isn’t.

  160. 160
    PaulW says:

    Guns n Roses ended up being good for 2 albums (Use Your Illusion should have been just one album of the good songs) and nothing more. Slightly overrated in terms of musical impact, other than being the last hair-metal band to actually have value before Nirvana showed rock could be more than just metal or pop.

    As for Kurt Cobain and the conspiracy theories about Courtney, the best I can say about that is 1) there’s little real evidence Courtney was behind Kurt’s death other than being a toxic influence on his troubled life and 2) she took the professional widow job to new lows.

  161. 161
    Interrobang says:

    Dave Grohl is an HIV-AIDS denier, and he’s also antivaccine. There were more than a few nuts and flakes in Nirvana, apparently.

  162. 162
    Cain says:

    @hilts:
    You should then like Rush’s Alex Lifeson’s speech then.

  163. 163
    Kerry Reid says:

    No matter how fucked up Courtney is, she isn’t the one who killed herself and left a toddler daughter without a parent. I know — Kurt was fucked up. But I am mystified at how many people are willing to overlook the psychic damage caused by parents who kill themselves when said parents are sensitive tortured fucked-up artists. (Yes, I know Kurt’s pain — physical and emotional — was real. I still think he was a jerk for choosing to leave his daughter fatherless.) I’m sure Courtney won’t be getting any Mother of the Year awards any time soon and I am well aware of the estrangement between her and Frances Bean. But you know what? As long as they are both alive, reconciliation and healing is possible. She’ll never get that with her dad.

    Anyway — when will the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame get around to inducting truly great and influential bands like the B-52s and the Replacements? “Bastards of Young” gets my vote as the best rock song of all time.

  164. 164
    Kerry Reid says:

    @Suzanne: Didn’t see your comment before I posted my own along the same lines — but yes. Abso-fucking-lutely!

  165. 165
    agorabum says:

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): grohl should be in for his contributions To Tenacious D. He’s more than just Foo and Nirvana.

  166. 166
    pseudonymous in nc says:

    @Roger Moore:

    AFAIK, the only people getting any hereditary title in the UK these days are members of the royal family

    The final bit of precedent there was for former prime ministers, but the last person to take that up was Harold Macmillan, who finally accepted an Earldom on his 90th birthday in 1984 and died a couple of years later, passing the title onto his grandson.

    Former PMs since then have either taken life peerages or knighthoods or nothing at all, and it’d take some chutzpah for an ex-PM to request a hereditary peerage now.

  167. 167
    Hungry Joe says:

    I’m late yet again (apply West Coast excuse here), but HOO-RAY hip-hop artist!

  168. 168
    kylefresh says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: i heard that episode of fresh air too. the way i’ve quoted it to people is “maybe next time, terri” or “better luck next time, terri.” regardless, it was hilarious.

  169. 169
    Shazza says:

    @Hal: I believe it was said that Kurt was ready to leave and divorce her. He wasn’t complete comfortable with the massive success Nirvana was having and wanted to be more low-key. Now, she has the money and the publishing rights to the music.

  170. 170
    dopey-o says:

    @Kerry Reid:

    Anyway — when will the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame get around to inducting truly great and influential bands like the B-52s and the Replacements? “Bastards of Young” gets my vote as the best rock song of all time.

    As a 14-year-old in the 60’s, I’ve got to admit that “Bastards of Young” is basically “Satisfaction” squared. I tell my kids that The Stones were the greatest rockers. They’ll talk to their kids about The Replacements. I’d sure like to know who’s next on that list….

  171. 171
    Kris Collins says:

    @hilts: Joan Baez was one of my first singing idols, but she never sang a note of anything that could remotely be classified as rock and roll. I agree about the rest you mention, as well as many more, especially when talentless hack groups like Kiss are honored.

  172. 172
    Kerry Reid says:

    @dopey-o: I always figured “Unsatisfied” was the Replacements’ answer to the Stones.

    Anyway, I don’t know if any lyric has ever summed up the essential paradox of the human condition as well as “The ones love us best, are the ones we’ll lay to rest/and visit their graves on holidays at best. The ones love us least, are the ones we’ll die to please. If it’s any consolation, I don’t begin to understand them”

  173. 173
    Captain C says:

    @Botsplainer: As a fellow ELP fan, I suspect that Love Beach was a shining example of a F*ck You Contractual Obligation Album.

  174. 174
    Jado says:

    @James E. Powell:

    Timing. Both major albums hit at just the right time to create a major shift, and that’s all it takes. Iconic albums are iconic because they do what they do at the specific time they do it. Dark Side of the Moon is iconic, but Wish You Were Here has some of the most awesome PF songs ever. But Dark Side and Wall are held up as the pillars of PF, because they hit at the time they hit.

    Timing, man. It’s everything

  175. 175
    brantl says:

    My kid listens to Nirvana, and unfortunately for me, plays them nearly incessantly. I was indifferent to them at first, but now have honed a fine-edged loathing for a band that was mediocre, at best.

Comments are closed.