Send in the Rangers

Patriotism looks a lot like domestic terrorism these days:

A Democratic congressman from Nevada said in a letter this week that his constituents have reported the armed militia supporting rancher Cliven Bundy have set up checkpoints to verify the residency of anybody passing through.

Rep. Steven Horsford (D-NV), who represents the area, sent the letter Sunday to Clark County Sheriff Doug Gillespie, asking him to investigate.

“I am writing to bring your attention to the ongoing situation in northeastern Clark County which has caused many of my constituents to fear for their safety,” Horsford wrote. Residents in the area “have expressed concern over the continual presence of multiple out-of-state, armed militia groups that have remained in the community” since Bundy’s dispute with the Bureau of Land Management came to a boil.

The militia, as reported by Horsford’s constituents, “have set up checkpoints where residents are required to prove they live in the area before being allowed to pass,” the letter said.

They have also maintained a presence, sometimes armed, along highways and roads, as well as community sites like churches and schools, the letter asserted.

In all seriousness, why are these people not in jail with their guns confiscated? This shit needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP.






162 replies
  1. 1
    opiejeanne says:

    Checkpoints? You’re fucking kidding me.

  2. 2
    Davis X. Machina says:

    Extremism in the defense of extremism is no vice.

  3. 3
    JMG says:

    This is armed insurrection. Obama will ignore it, since he fears divisiveness above all things, but the proper response is a crushing display and/or use of armed force against the traitors.

  4. 4
    gorram says:

    This really giving me Italy-in-the-early-1930s vibes.

  5. 5
    scav says:

    Armed self-appointed carpetbaggers checking locals for “residency”. yep.
    Freedom, Patriotism, democracy, and the glory of local, individual control of one’s destiny. There’s the logic in full spate.

  6. 6
    Jim C. says:

    “In all seriousness, why are these people not in jail with their guns confiscated.”

    Might have something to do with the terrorists threatening to use women and children as human shields. Rule of law or not, ordering military forces in with that sort of threat looming is something you want to do VERY carefully and after every conceivable possible option has been exhausted.

    But, that aside, in general I do agree. This can only go on so long if any credible authority is to be maintained, otherwise the situation is going to get worse as the vast supply of lunatics with guns rallies to the cause.

    The thinking might be the opposite – that they can wait for the furor to die down and then go in and arrest the Bundy’s once Fox news has moved onto the next cause of the week. It’s a working theory if you combine it with turning off electricity, water, etc. Basically it sounds like the authorities are treating this like a hostage situation.

    Which is fine…if you have the hostage takers penned in, surrounded with no place to go, and can basically wait them out.

    Starts becoming more problematic as a theory if the opposite starts becoming true and they start expanding their sphere of influence, numbers etc. outwards to basically start taking more hostages.

  7. 7
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    You can’t send in the Rangers. There are laws against that and shit. They will move in and take these guys down eventually, but I can see the point of not creating “martyrs” for these loons to avenge until one has to.

  8. 8
    Tokyokie says:

    Just people exercising their Second Amendment freedoms.

  9. 9
    John Cole says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Sigh. I’m well aware of that…

  10. 10
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @JMG: T

    his is armed insurrection. Obama will ignore it, since he fears divisiveness above all things, but the proper response is a crushing display and/or use of armed force against the traitors.

    No. No and no.

  11. 11
    srv says:

    Obama will surrender Nevada like he’s surrendered Crimea.

  12. 12
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @John Cole: So, you are just expressing frustration at the Bundyite idiots?

  13. 13
    Holden Pattern says:

    Don’t these asshats have jobs? How can they afford to spend all day just hanging around pointing guns at people? I thought “good” Murkins waz makers workin’ all the time.

  14. 14
    SatanicPanic says:

    Great, we’ve got our own home grown FARC. How soon before they start kidnapping and selling drugs?

  15. 15
    Nylund says:

    So in their version of a “free country” we should all live in a nation where random groups of people with assault rifles stop you as you drive around and demand to see your papers?

  16. 16
    PsiFighter37 says:

    Any bets on who the first Republican to support these checkpoints is?

  17. 17
    Patrick says:

    In all seriousness, why are these people not in jail with their guns confiscated? This shit needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP.

    Good question. If is not going have to pay his fees to the federal government, then why should the other farmers have to? Hell, if he is not going have to pay his fees, then why should the rest of us have to pay our fees?

  18. 18
    SatanicPanic says:

    @srv: BENGHAZI! has emboldened the terrorists

  19. 19
    Chris says:

    @gorram:

    This really giving me Italy-in-the-early-1930s vibes.

    QFT.

  20. 20
    hildebrand says:

    Time to get a great many folks to drive down that road. Make that highway look like the end of Field of Dreams. Every last car should hand out little American flags.

  21. 21
    Roger Moore says:

    @scav:

    Armed self-appointed carpetbaggers checking locals for “residency”. yep.

    That the people carrying out these residency checks are not locals themselves was the glaring contradiction I noticed. Personally, I think it’s about time to relocate these fuckers to a FEMA re-education camp. Or maybe just Club Fed.

  22. 22
    scav says:

    Crimea isn’t ours to lose, and Nevada gets first crack at maintaining control over their territory. If they ask for Fed help at maintaining control . . also, time for coalition building. At least that’s my first gut reaction.

  23. 23
    Roger Moore says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    How soon before they start kidnapping and selling drugs?

    I don’t know about the kidnapping part, but if there’s not at least one or two Meth dealers in that crowd I will be very much surprised.

  24. 24
    Pogonip says:

    Why not evacuate the innocent locals, cordon off the area around the militia, turn off the power and water? They’ll come out when they get thirsty enough.

  25. 25
    jl says:

    I didn’t see a link at first, thanks for link, and sorry if I missed it first time.

    However, the local residents seem to have elected a Democrat, therefore they are clearly unconstitutional, and have no standing.

    Seriously, this needs to be addressed, and as soon as possible. I understand the need for caution and patience, but if they are going to do vile things, like protecting themselves with human shields, including kids who are not of age, then they will try to dictate society’s response.

    Washington and Hamilton were careful, but the government responded quickly, though the initial responses did not involve force. And, yeah, even back then, there were plenty of apologists for the deadbeats, and charges that the government provoked whatever happened.

  26. 26
    R. Johnston says:

    The Bundy mob is, and should be treated as, an occupying power.

  27. 27
    Roger Moore says:

    @scav:

    Nevada gets first crack at maintaining control over their territory.

    Any bets on how long their respect for the local sheriff as the ultimate authority will last when he tells them to knock it the hell off? I’m guessing he will move from ultimate law enforcer to jackbooted thug faster than you can say “Captain Jack Sparrow”.

  28. 28
    g says:

    @gorram:

    This really giving me Italy-in-the-early-1930s vibes.

    It’s giving me Eastern Ukraine in 2014 vibes. This is exactly what the Russian insurgents are doing.

  29. 29
    JMG says:

    No good will come of waiting this out. The only proper response is to disarm, disperse and arrest these people, peacefully or otherwise.

  30. 30
    Violet says:

    The militia, as reported by Horsford’s constituents, “have set up checkpoints where residents are required to prove they live in the area before being allowed to pass,” the letter said.

    If you live near our southern border you’re very familiar with this sort of thing. Except it’s the Border Patrol doing it and the checkpoints are permanent. No free right to pass unless you show your ID and confirm you’re a US citizen or lawfully here otherwise.

  31. 31
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @g: It’s giving me an early 90s Ruby Ridge and Waco vibe. And I think that is why law enforcement is not “swinging its dick” and making huge shows of force. If it can be calmed down before the people who are going to be arrested get arrested, fewer people will die.

  32. 32
    Suffern ACE says:

    @SatanicPanic: not too long. The ones in the 1990s took to robbing banks.

    Jeez. Checkpoints in the country. I thought all the rural folk knew their neighbors and looked down their noses at us city folk for our anonymity.

  33. 33
    Trollhattan says:

    Could somebody cobble up some authentic-looking Soviet-era transit papers? ‘Cause I have an idea about a fun visit to my neighboring test track state….

    ETA It’s an army of Zimmermans. Leave the Skittles home.

  34. 34
    300baud says:

    If anybody would like a great long read related to this:

    http://cursor.org/stories/fascismintroduction.php

    It’s a book-length piece by an expert on US neo-Nazi groups. It covers the roots of fascism, how that becomes mainstream, and what that might look like in the US. It was written in 2003, so it’s mildly out of date. But in some ways that makes it better: all the way through I was saying, “Wow, that’s just like X”, where X is some current thing that didn’t even exist in 2003.

  35. 35
    Cacti says:

    Obstructing the flow of traffic on public roads and detaining people without their consent is against the law. It is also entirely within the purview of the State and local law enforcement that these sovereign citizen loons claim to respect so much.

    It’s time for the Clark County Sheriff and Nevada Highway Patrol to put their foot down. Order this lawless riff raff to stop impeding traffic, or start arresting them.

  36. 36
    lawguy says:

    @Chris: Do you mean Germany? Mussolini was in charge from 1922 on in Italy.

  37. 37
    Pogonip says:

    Whatever is done, it needs to happen now. Every minute’s delay makes the government look weaker. The world really is watching. Not to mention citizens. If the government is more afraid of what Fox News thinks than of the consequences of tolerating open insurrection, why, pray tell, should I, Joe Citizen, obey any laws I don’t happen to like?

    I’m also of the opinion that if these guys were wearing towels instead of cowboy hats, they’d already have been blown to kingdom come.

  38. 38
    scav says:

    @Roger Moore: I’d like to take the lower, but the speed of light might preclude that.

  39. 39
    Davis X. Machina says:

    However, the local residents seem to have elected a Democrat, therefore they are clearly unconstitutional, and have no standing.

    Clark Co. — Las Vegas — is the lion’s share of the district, population-wise. Which is urban. And you know what that means.

  40. 40
    srv says:

    So apparently Oath Keepers dude Stewart Rhodes said there would be a drone attack on the Bundy ranch and fled to the casino and their hotel rooms.

    So other Bundy militia folks said they’d shoot Oath Keepers in the back as deserters on the battle field.

    And thus the crazies are in a row that Rhodes is really a FBI informant….

  41. 41
    NickT says:

    @PsiFighter37:

    Donald Sterling?

  42. 42
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Suffern ACE: They’re not even from there. I wonder how many of them are even from rural areas.

  43. 43
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Nylund: yes. Sovereign citizens banding together to struggle over control of local territory is ideal and less evil than governments who rely on violence. Yeah. It looks a lot like gangs, but who wouldn’t mind paying protection money to militias. It’s not like there’s much of living everyday life in an unharassed way worth a damn anyway.

  44. 44
    Chris says:

    @lawguy:

    Yes, quite right. Either Italy early 1920s, or Germany early 1930s.

  45. 45
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    People should also note that, if law enforcement goes in after these guys, it is going to look like a military operation.

    ETA: Are they using Bundy’s place as a headquarters? If not, do they have one?

  46. 46
    Betty Cracker says:

    Drones!

  47. 47
    Hungry Joe says:

    Sorry, but I’m going to call Now, Just Wait a Gol-dang Minute: Has the report of “checkpoints” been verified by a reputable source? Getting outraged is heady stuff — I do it myself any number of times every day — but this sounds like one of those stories that’s too good, i.e., too wonderfully outrage-inspiring, to be true. Look, it may very well be … but I’d lay odds against it. Not heavy odds, mind you — those asshats are just unhinged enough to pull something like “checkpoints.” But still, it might be a good idea to find out if it’s, you know, true.

  48. 48
    Cacti says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    People should also note that, if law enforcement goes in after these guys, it is going to look like a military operation

    And?

    This is somehow worse than letting random armed thugs run a rural Nevada town like it was Somalia?

  49. 49
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    I can’t help but think that if people of color were running those checkpoints the gov would already be deploying helicopter gunships and crew-served weapons.

  50. 50
    shortstop says:

    @jl:

    However, the local residents seem to have elected a Democrat, therefore they are clearly unconstitutional, and have no standing.

    Also too, he’s a Negro, rendering his constituents even more standingless, and making us all wonder if Horsford wouldn’t be better off playing the piano at the Mustang Ranch than he is in Congress.

  51. 51
    Cacti says:

    @Hungry Joe:

    Sorry, but I’m going to call Now, Just Wait a Gol-dang Minute: Has the report of “checkpoints” been verified by a reputable source?

    It’s based on constituent complaints to the local Congressman, relayed to the Clark County Sheriff.

    Seems like it would be fairly easy for county law enforcement to investigate and confirm or dispel these complaints.

  52. 52
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Cacti: And maybe avoiding the use of military level violence against US citizens unless absolutely necessary is a good idea. FWIW I am also against doing it in inner cities.

    Edited slightly for clarity.

  53. 53
    srv says:

    FYWP mod.

    Heard the latest? Stewart Rhodes of Oath Keepers declared yesterday that there would be a drone attack on the ranch. They high-tailed it back to their hotel rooms at the casino with a bunch of equipment.

    The rest of the Bundy militia were not amused, and said the Oath Keepers had deserted them and that they shoot deserters in the back, while video bloggers accue Rhodes of being a federal informant!

  54. 54
    shortstop says:

    @Cacti: These dudes LIVE for their own perceived martyrdom. Let’s not give it to them until absolutely necessary.

  55. 55
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @shortstop: Exactly.

  56. 56
    Cacti says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    So, you are objectively in favor of self-appointed militia groups obstructing traffic and menacing private citizens then?

    If law enforcement shouldn’t be dispersing armed vigilantes, what exactly is their role? Writing parking tickets?

  57. 57
    Violet says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate: @shortstop: In the photos of the initial protest that got all the attention, the only African American people in the crowd were the law enforcement officers. It was kind of jarring to see all these crazy white people waving guns at the black people tasked with keeping them under control.

  58. 58
    shortstop says:

    @Cacti: There’s a little jump between what Omnes said and this:

    So, you are objectively in favor of self-appointed militia groups obstructing traffic and menacing private citizens then?

    I wonder if you can detect what it might be?

  59. 59
    Cacti says:

    @shortstop:

    These dudes LIVE for their own perceived martyrdom. Let’s not give it to them until absolutely necessary.

    If menacing private citizens and detaining them against their will doesn’t cross the threshold of absolutely necessary, what does?

    Hostage taking?

  60. 60
    celcus says:

    Someone forgot to read the fine print. If they actually were a “militia” then you know who is their commander in chief.

    Article I – The Legislative Branch
    Section 8 – Powers of Congress

    To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

    To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

    Article II – The Executive Branch
    Section 2 – Civilian Power over Military, Cabinet, Pardon Power, Appointments

    The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States;

  61. 61
    danimal says:

    Obama is a wimp. Obamacare had death panels, but he still hasn’t gotten around to implementing the law as I imagine it was written.

    Dammit, I want my Obamacare death panels, and I nominate Nevada as the pilot state for Obamacare Death Panel testing and research. Then we can deal with these thugs appropriately AND nurture their wild-eyed conspiracy theories.

    And nobody said the death panels can’t use black helicopters for transport.

  62. 62
    rikyrah says:

    What if they were Black and trying to put up a checkpoint on the corner of the worst neighborhood in Urban America?

    YEAH, I thought so.

  63. 63
    Patrick says:

    @shortstop:

    So how do you propose dealing with it then?

  64. 64
    Cacti says:

    @Patrick:

    So how do you propose dealing with it then?

    Singing kumbaya until the militia thugs get tired of bullying the locals?

  65. 65
    Jay in Oregon says:

    @Roger Moore:

    Any bets on how long their respect for the local sheriff as the ultimate authority will last when he tells them to knock it the hell off? I’m guessing he will move from ultimate law enforcer to jackbooted thug faster than you can say “Captain Jack Sparrow”.

    Butbutbut Cliven Bundy said that if the county sheriff came to arrest him, he’s go along with it! He PROMISED, guys!

  66. 66
    kdaug says:

    @SatanicPanic:

    They’re not even from there. I wonder how many of them are even from rural areas.

    I suspect – don’t quote me on this – that the feds know precisely who each and every one of them are.

    I also suspect they’ll get nabbed when they go out to buy toilet paper or baby formula. One by one

    And it won’t be broadcast..

  67. 67
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Cacti: I love it when people use the “objectively in favor of…” gambit. No, I am not in favor of that. OTOH, looking at this as being like a hostage situation has some value. If it can be resolved without shots being fired, it should be. If it reaches a point where it cannot be solved short of violence, then that bridge must be crossed. I don’t see the need to rush into it.

  68. 68
    Suffern ACE says:

    @rikyrah: I think the comparison here is to Wounded Knee. See, you don’t need a hypothetical.

  69. 69
    Hungry Joe says:

    @Cacti: Right. So I guess we’ll find out pretty soon. But reports of complaints to a Congressman don’t come close to being a reputable/reliable source for a story. I mean, it’s some phone calls (how many?) from some people (who?).

    I was a reporter for 20 years, and I know that whenever you hear about something that makes you go, “Wow!” it’s a good idea to take a couple of deep breaths and think about it. Often as not you end up saying, “Now, just wait a gol-dang* minute…”

    * All journalists say “gol-dang.”

  70. 70
    beltane says:

    @Cacti: Law enforcement’s role is to spray toxic chemicals into the eyes of peaceful left-leaning protesters.

  71. 71
    Cacti says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I don’t see the need to rush into it.

    Rush into it?

    It’s been going on for mutliple weeks now.

    How long should lawless armed thugs be able to menace the local population before a law enforcement response is appropriate?

  72. 72
    Roger Moore says:

    @Cacti:

    Seems like it would be fairly easy for county law enforcement to investigate and confirm or dispel these complaints.

    Better try it in an unmarked vehicle, preferably with out of state plates, if you want to get reliable idea of what’s going on. I’m guessing these guys will hide the moment a law enforcement vehicle shows up.

  73. 73
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    People should also note that, if law enforcement goes in after these guys, it is going to look like a military operation.

    And? Fuck Randy Weaver and fuck those Branch Davidian pedophiles. My great grandfathers didn’t watch their buddies die face down in the muck so that these modern day Confederates can pretend they won the war.

  74. 74
    🌷 Martin says:

    The problem at the ranch is that at its peak, there were about 1,000 armed militia members there. That’s enough people that they know they won’t get arrested. You simply cannot arrest 1,000 armed people. They know this, which is why there are so many people there. I don’t know how many are still there, but it sounds like it’s still well over 100.

    Even an armed standoff is difficult to initiate because the first law enforcement on the scene will be massively outnumbered. They’re sitting ducks. We only deal with situations like this with the military, and they go all-in when they do it. It’s not FBI or ATF for an operation on that scale. So the question is, are we willing to send in 5,000 or more national guard members, with armored vehicles, air support, and all that to stop this? I understand the need to stand on principles and all that, but there’s a very real cost to doing so. This won’t be a surprise, they’ll know its coming. It will not end well.

  75. 75
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @rikyrah: My opinion is the same. No violence until absolutely necessary.

    @kdaug: Hey look, an option other then going in with guns blazing.

  76. 76
    Chris says:

    @shortstop:

    Yeah, this. I’d rather they take their time and do it right than go in guns blazing NOW NOW NOW NOW because of some perceived need to not look weak or assert their authority. We’re usually the first to bitch when cops, feds or soldiers overreact or act precipitously, so I’m not going to complain when they don’t.

  77. 77
    Amir Khalid says:

    @celcus:
    Thank you for clearing that up. As a non-American, I’d been under the impression that any American had the right to form a Militia of Me and My Buddies Exercising Our God-Given Second Amendment Rights, Dadgummit!

  78. 78
    beltane says:

    I wonder what would happen if 1,000 well-armed OWS protesters converged on the next Republican national convention.

  79. 79
    shortstop says:

    @Patrick: How about starting with local law enforcement and ramping up the efforts from there?

    Look, lemme be clear. If Horsford is getting accurate reports, the feds are almost certainly going to need to be involved. These fools are unlikely to stand down. But why give them the Ruby Ridge they’re begging for as soon as they demand it? For people like this, irrelevance is always a thousand times more painful than martyrdom.

    If you don’t give a shit about that, have a thought for the many half-engaged Americans who don’t think these assholes are heroes but also have second thoughts about what they see as a heavyhanded federal government. Clinton and Reno lost big in public opinion over Waco, and they weren’t in the wrong. Why hand these militias any sympathy whatsoever by starting out with guns blazing?

  80. 80
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Fifth Columnist!

  81. 81
    scav says:

    Quick, send in the clowns.
    Don’t bother, they’re here.

  82. 82
    Patrick says:

    @Cacti:

    So nothing then. I feel sorry for the law-abiding ranchers that are paying their fees. Having a feeling that they may stop doing so as well. Why bother?

  83. 83
    Hungry Joe says:

    @Bobby Thomson: Shut the fuck up, Bobby … I mean, Donnie. You’re in over your head.

    The great thing about Walter was that he was wrong about EVERYTHING. Well, everything except that nihilists are cowards. (And no way could he have gotten the Dude a toe by 3 p.m.)

  84. 84
    Tone In DC says:

    @🌷 Martin:

    Even an armed standoff is difficult to initiate because the first law enforcement on the scene will be massively outnumbered. They’re sitting ducks. We only deal with situations like this with the military, and they go all-in when they do it. It’s not FBI or ATF for an operation on that scale. So the question is, are we willing to send in 5,000 or more national guard members, with armored vehicles, air support, and all that to stop this? I understand the need to stand on principles and all that, but there’s a very real cost to doing so. This won’t be a surprise, they’ll know its coming. It will not end well.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/l.....s-horsford

    I had hoped these guys were just standing around, stroking their surrogate johnsons, eating Cheetos and guzzling Natty Light. I see that isn’t the case.
    The governor of Nevada is gonna have to send in the National Guard. And, yeah, it could be a repeat of Ruby Ridge/Waco/the-debacle-of-your-choice.

  85. 85
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @shortstop: Also, why get law enforcement officers killed if it can be avoided?

    @Patrick: Do you really think the is going end without Bundy paying up in some way? Asset forfeiture, fines, jail? He’s toast.

  86. 86
    Cacti says:

    @shortstop:

    Look, lemme be clear. If Horsford is getting accurate reports, the feds are almost certainly going to need to be involved.

    Not necessarily. Local and state law enforcement would be the first ones expected to handle this. The governor also has the authority to call in the real State militia if necessary (aka the Nevada National Guard).

    However, if solid evidence turns up that a private paramilitary group is menacing motorists in an organized way, on public roads or highways, it could be grounds for a RICO prosecution.

  87. 87
    Keith G says:

    So, interestingly, things in Clark County have not gone the expected way. It seems that “leave them alone and they will go home” was the hope/expectation. Do bullies ever just give up and go away? They are upping the anti. Do they have a leadership ethos that will say, “Okay, we have nothing more to prove. Let’s go home.”

    I am not so sure.

    How hot does it get in Clark County in July-August?

  88. 88
    shortstop says:

    @Amir Khalid: Well, we do. But many well-meaning individuals have been tripped up by making their subjects and verbs agree, forgetting to skip daily hygiene, or being able to pull their belts over their stomachs. Any of those missteps makes you ineligible for membership in the national organization, which is already quite loosely affiliated due to the inability of individual unit leaders to determine who is most opposed to centralized governing of any kind.

  89. 89
    Roger Moore says:

    @Chris:

    I’d rather they take their time and do it right than go in guns blazing NOW NOW NOW NOW because of some perceived need to not look weak or assert their authority.

    Fortunately, Mr. Obama seems to prefer to be methodical and get the job done over jumping the gun. I have no doubt that the lack of action is a tactical decision rather than an abdication of authority. Something will be done, but it will be done on the government’s time table, not the media’s or the terrorists’.

  90. 90
    Heliopause says:

    As there is no moral difference between what these people are doing and, say, what Anwar al-Awlaki was accused of doing, I’m trying to think of reasons for the differential treatment. That’s a tough one, anybody got any ideas?

  91. 91
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Keith G: By mid-may I suspect the heat will be getting to some of them

  92. 92
    Cacti says:

    @Keith G:

    How hot does it get in Clark County in July-August?

    Average daytime high in July is about 105.

  93. 93
    Chris says:

    @Roger Moore:

    Quite. At least, that’s what I’m rooting for.

  94. 94
    SatanicPanic says:

    Also, put me in the “Chill Out Everybody, Obama’s Got This” camp.

  95. 95
    Baud says:

    @Heliopause:

    These guys are within our jurisdiction.

  96. 96
  97. 97
    Tone In DC says:

    I added the same link as in the original post. Can’t fix it, no edit button today.

    I’d love to see the feds get Bundy and his Stooges for RICO, just for the record.

  98. 98
    Tokyokie says:

    @Hungry Joe: I worked at newspapers for 30 years, and I always preferred “dagnab.” But then I was a copy editor.

  99. 99
    LAC says:

    @JMG: fuck off with what Obama fears.

  100. 100
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Baud: And in a place where arrest by law enforcement is possible.

  101. 101
    beltane says:

    @SatanicPanic: Yeah. It’s just annoying seeing violent right-wing asshats get away with just about everything over and over again.

  102. 102
    SatanicPanic says:

    @beltane: I hear ya, but I’m sure they’ll get what’s coming to them

  103. 103
    Keith G says:

    @SatanicPanic: Maybe some mid July psy-ops would be in order if it lasts that long.

    Put up a media quarantine, Then keep them busy all day and all night with sound and movement. A quick check says that they will be seeing the upper nineties of arid heat (ed: Cacti says its actually low hundreds – even better). There would be a thinning of the herd.

    Sunstroke is no respecter of uber patriots – or whatever the heck they are.

  104. 104
    Hungry Joe says:

    Going to be in the 90s in them there Nevada parts later this week.

  105. 105
    Jeffro says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate: Absolutely. Quick thought experiment you all may want to try on your wingnut friends and relatives: “if this were in downtown Philadelphia or L.A., and the perps in question were African American squatters who had taken over government-owned buildings because they didn’t want to pay rent…how would that sit with you?”

  106. 106
    Glidwrith says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: A few scenarios that has me seriously worried:

    1. Just what are these yahoos going to do if they find someone that isn’t a resident at their checkpoint?

    2. How long until a motorist sees these people waving their guns and decides to run the checkpoint because these are yahoos waving their guns? We’ve seen any number of civilians gunned down by our own military in Iraq and Afganistan and those were trained soldiers.

    3. How impartial are these people going to be if the skin tone is less than pasty white? What about a woman traveling alone?

    If any of these things happen, how long will it take to find out after the fact, since apparently there isn’t enough law enforcement surveillance to realize this is happening and it is reports by civilians that are highlighting there is a problem?

  107. 107
    Roger Moore says:

    @beltane:

    I wonder what would happen if 1,000 well-armed OWS protesters converged on the next Republican national convention.

    The analogy is poor. 1000 armed individuals converging on a major preplanned event in a big city is quite different from 1000 armed individuals congregating in the middle of nowhere. One of them presents a much greater danger to innocent bystanders.

  108. 108
    burnspbesq says:

    @beltane:

    I wonder what would happen if 1,000 well-armed OWS protesters converged on the next Republican national convention.

    Could never happen. You’ll never see 1,000 OWS folks agree on any course of action. It just isn’t in their DNA.

  109. 109
    Keith G says:

    @Glidwrith:

    apparently there isn’t enough law enforcement surveillance

    I would not be surprised if there was plenty of discreet surveillance going on.

  110. 110
    Chris says:

    @Glidwrith:

    2. How long until a motorist sees these people waving their guns and decides to run the checkpoint because these are yahoos waving their guns? We’ve seen any number of civilians gunned down by our own military in Iraq and Afganistan and those were trained soldiers.

    I’m wondering what happens when someone who isn’t part of their militia brotherhood, but shares their fondness for Second Amendment Remedies, sees people with guns on the side of the road and decides to Stand His Ground.

  111. 111
    xian says:

    because waco and ruby ridge

  112. 112
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Glidwrith: Those are serious concerns. I do think that there is a lot more law enforcement activity in the area than has made the news. I doubt that the local and state authorities aren’t very interested and involved. I am also pretty sure that the FBI and ATF have people on the scene as well.

  113. 113
    beltane says:

    @Roger Moore: OK, lets say they were group of vaguely lefty black extremists sitting in their home like these folks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE

  114. 114
    Roger Moore says:

    @beltane:

    It’s just annoying seeing violent right-wing asshats get away with just about everything over and over again.

    It’s annoying to see them get away with it for a while, but there’s no indication that the feds have just given up and will never do anything about it. It’s a volatile situation, and the feds are taking it slowly. Slow and steady is annoying, but it beats the shit out of quick and dirty.

  115. 115
    beltane says:

    @Chris: What happens is that Wayne LaPierre descends into the bowels of hell after experiencing the mother of all orgasms.

  116. 116
    JoyfulA says:

    @Cacti: That’s why the congressman wrote to the sheriff.

    I wonder if the locals had also contacted the sheriff and, if so, what they were told.

  117. 117
    WaterGirl says:

    @Roger Moore: Mr. Obama – that’s my pet pieve. I doubt that you mean it to be disrespectful, but he’s the president dammit. Makes me crazy that the NYT calls him Mr. Obama, too.

    nothing personal.

  118. 118
    Cassidy says:

    I have no doubt that everyone is being photographed and sorted. They are letting them disperse on their own. They’ll get individual attention.

  119. 119
    Keith G says:

    @WaterGirl: Put your outrage away. “Mr” is a perfectly acceptable form to address an ex or sitting President of the United States.

    It’s not personal. In my neck of the woods, it’s called correct usage.

  120. 120
    Violet says:

    @WaterGirl: That’s nothing new. The press calls the President, whoever that is, Mr. _____. Look back in time and you’ll see Mr. Bush, Mr. Reagan, Mr. Clinton, etc. If we get a female president, she’ll probably be Mrs. ____ or Ms. _____.

  121. 121
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @WaterGirl: Does the NYT call the President of France, Mr. Hollande? Or M. Hollande? Does it call Joe Biden, Mr. Biden? And so on?

  122. 122
    kc says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    @Patrick: Do you really think the is going end without Bundy paying up in some way? Asset forfeiture, fines, jail? He’s toast.

    Maybe we should take bets. I think he’s gonna get away with it.

  123. 123
    The Pale Scot says:

    @🌷 Martin:

    So the question is, are we willing to send in 5,000 or more national guard members, with armored vehicles, air support, and all that to stop this?

    Don’t forget the artillery!

    Seriously, why the aren’t there liens on his property and bank accounts?

    I assume ranching is like most small businesses and no credit means no business. Let him round up the cattle and sell ’em off to cover his notes.

    As for the out of staters; How do people drop what they’re doing, leave their jobs and drive to Nev. ? I smell EBT cards. it would seem simple thing to cancel out of state EBT cards that get rung up in Clark County. We’re just protecting the taxpayers money don’t you know.

  124. 124
    PIGL says:

    @Cacti: What exactly is their role? Terrorizing minorities, imprisoning black youth for heinous drug offenses, seizing assets, and tazing, punching, gassing and shooting hippies, and covering up each other’s crimes.

    Next question.

  125. 125
    PIGL says:

    @Cacti:
    EDIT: FYWP

  126. 126
    PIGL says:

    @🌷 Martin: Won’t end well for whom? I expect, if the state forces went all in, every single militia member would be smeared across the sand in very small bits, and that law enforcement casualties would be zero. It might send a seriously-needed lesson to the gunbuggers about what real fire power is today.

  127. 127
    The Pale Scot says:

    I meant “we’re just protecting the taxpayers money from fraud ” don’t you know.

  128. 128
    blueskies says:

    @hildebrand:

    Time to get a great many folks to drive down that road. Make that highway look like the end of Field of Dreams. Every last car should hand out little American flags.

    You first, binky.

  129. 129
    Keith G says:

    @PIGL: I can see that for some that this would be a cool fantasy, but talk about a solution with more blow back and bad long term consequences than it is worth.

  130. 130
    D58826 says:

    @Roger Moore: Since they want to play soldier, offer them a one way ticket to Syria. They need some real macho peace keepers over there and the right has been clamoring for military action anyway.

  131. 131
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @The Pale Scot:

    Don’t forget the artillery!

    Artillery conquers; infantry occupies.

  132. 132
    Faux News says:

    @srv: You sir or madam have a bright future in Fox “News”. Congrats!

  133. 133
    Keith G says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: As an inveterate reader of history, I am consuming quite a lot about the first year of The Great War. Reading the account of the soldiers who were the first humans to encounter the “storm of steel” is heart rending.

    ..When you hear the whistling in the distance your entire body preventively crunches together to prepare for the enormous explosions. Every new explosion is a new attack, a new fatigue, a new affliction. Even nerves of the hardest of steel, are not capable of dealing with this kind of pressure. The moment comes when the blood rushes to your head, the fever burns inside your body and the nerves, numbed with tiredness, are not capable of reacting to anything anymore. It is as if you are tied to a pole and threatened by a man with a hammer. First the hammer is swung backwards in order to hit hard, then it is swung forwards, only missing your scull by an inch, into the splintering pole. In the end you just surrender. Even the strength to guard yourself from splinters now fails you. There is even hardly enough strength left to pray to God….

  134. 134
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Keith G: My first job in the army put me in charge controlling the fire of four guns. I was capable of wiping out a city block in the space of about 30 seconds.

  135. 135
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: And we could accurately hit that city block from well more than 10 miles away. Artillery is a fearsome weapon. Mastery of it is part of what made Gustavus Adolphus and Napoleon the premier generals of their times.

  136. 136
    Gravenstone says:

    @Cacti: As opposed to spraying brains all over hell via sniper fire? Because that approach has worked so well in other places where we have captured hearts and fucking minds.

  137. 137
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Gravenstone: To be fair, one has one’s doubts about the amount of brains that would be sprayed. OTOH, bile would be quite prevalent.

  138. 138
    Danack says:

    For those asking for another source, politico is running with it:

    And in once-peaceful Bunkerville, residents grow more and more restless and fearful of what could still happen. Rep. Steven Horsford, who has tried to bring all the parties together, has publicly urged the militia folks to leave and has said that the Bundy supporters have set up checkpoints in the 1,300-person town, with armed men forcing residents to explain their comings and goings.

    One resident, Paula Wikan, told me that on Easter Sunday, armed militia members greeted her neighbors on their way to church. “I know of a few people that did not even enter for fear and disgust of having their church basically held captive,” she said. “All for one man that doesn’t want to pay his fees that are due to the government.”

  139. 139
    Thoughtful David says:

    I haven’t seen it mentioned on any of these threads, but I keep thinking about a real-life event a little over a hundred years ago in northeastern Brazil: The War of Canudos. It was started by religious fervor, a group of about 30,000 or so settlers in an arid, remote part of the country set up their own little “country” they defended with guns.
    The story is actually amazing. The fictionalized version is “The War of the End of World” by Mario Vargas Llosa, and the non-fiction reportage is “Rebellion in the Backlands” by Euclides da Cunha.
    Oh, and despite a lot of poorly planned and executed starts by the Brazilian government,it didn’t end well for the 30,000 “rebels.”
    There are a lot of similarities.

  140. 140
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Danack:

    “All for one man that doesn’t want to pay his fees that are due to the government.”

    That doesn’t sound like the locals like it. I don’t think that the image of these loonies is going to be one of patriots fighting tyranny.

  141. 141
    peej says:

    Arrest any of those who leave to get groceries. Eventually, they’ll start shooting the cattle when they get hungry.

  142. 142
    kindness says:

    Well we’ve all learned a valuable lesson now haven’t we? The next time Occupy goes to set up they need to all bring lots of guns, create checkpoints stopping everyone and acting like complete dicks in order to get the respect of real Muricans.

  143. 143
    DavidTC says:

    I don’t know why we want to ‘arrest’ these people.

    Let’s treat them like the military they claim to be, and stick them in a POW camp until the entirety of the anti-government forces are defeated.

  144. 144
    PurpleGirl says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I was thinking that the vibe I’m getting is Ruby Ridge and Waco and the “patriots” want to get into firefights with federal agents so they can continue proclaiming the federal agents to be jackbooted thugs. Maybe Bundy isn’t thinking of creating a martyr or two but the militia backing him probably are.

  145. 145
    helping hand says:

    “Checkpoints”? You mean “freedom points” right?

  146. 146
  147. 147

    […] As John Cole said, patriotism looks a lot like domestic terrorism these […]

  148. 148
    jimmiraybob says:

    Thinking long term, daytime temperatures start regularly hitting above 100 in about a month with virtually no shade opportunities and no air conditioning for the rebels. Eventually 110-115. Overheated, paranoid and undisciplined goobers may not need a lot of outside persuasion to reconsider their commitment. At the very least I would expect a thinning of the ranks come June and July.

    On a side note, how many of these “patriots” with so much time on their hands do you suppose draw unemployment or social security?

  149. 149
    danielx says:

    @Nylund:

    Only if you happen to be the wrong sort of person….I’d wager that the number of these Patriots with surnames like Espinoza, Garcia or Sanchez is pretty low, like nonexistent. For some folks like that it doesn’t matter if your family has been living within present day U.S. borders for three hundred years, if you have a hispanic name you’re still a Meskin and probably an illegal to boot.

    @Cacti:

    Yes, it’s been going on for weeks, which makes me wonder a couple of things….

    – how is it that all these people can afford to spend weeks sitting out in the boonies being assholes? don’t they have families? don’t they have jobs?
    – how are they being coordinated, controlled, commanded, how are they communicating? if they don’t have jobs to go home to, how are they being bankrolled?

    All these give rise to a number of things that could be done without pulling one trigger…if these folks are in fact promoting armed insurrection against this here U.S. of A., the feds have innumerable ways to make them piss blood before trying to make one arrest, among them seizure of any and all assets, freezing of bank accounts and so forth. For chrissakes, enemies foreign and domestic are why all these draconic terrorist-related financial regs were promulgated*…which is ironic considering that a lot of protests against various laws passed by and policies used by Bush and Obama are based on the supposition that said laws and policies can be used against Americans as well as furriners.

    But in point of fact, the powers that be don’t really have to do a damned thing. This is April; how many of these bozos are still going to be there in July in a Nevada summer? I don’t see a lot of them hanging around roadblocks when it’s 110 in the shade, especially if they don’t see much chance of getting on television. Unless of course they provoke a reaction from other citizens and somebody gets killed or hurt, in which case the ‘thorities land on the traveling patriots like a one ton sack of shit. Wait at least for a while, confirm exactly what’s going on, and then decide what to do. Lincoln made those sandlapper peckerwoods fire the first shot, and he was right. That being said, these assholes harassing other citizens can’t go on for all that long or somebody WILL get hurt, one way or another.

    @shortstop:

    Some of them may in point of fact be all in favor of martyrdom, at least somebody’s martyrdom if not theirs. However, if lead does start flying in a serious way, which I devoutly hope it does not, a whole lot of them will reacting just like anybody else. They’ll be pissing their pants and looking for the fastest exit, especially if people start dying all around them. Barring the possible involvement of veterans, they’ve never heard a shot fired in anger and have no idea – none at all – of what that particular experience is like.

    *Unless your name happens to be HSBC or something similar, in which case you get a fine that amounts to five weeks of your billions in annual income.

    The one thing that keeps me wondering about these people…have they never ever read any history at all? I’m by no means a professional historian, but one thing I have noticed is anybody who offers armed resistance to the federal government eventually ends up behind barbed wire at best and very messily dead at worst. Doesn’t matter whether the proximate cause is good or bad, just or injust, in the end the government will get what it wants, one way or another.

  150. 150
    jl says:

    @danielx:

    ” anybody who offers armed resistance to the federal government eventually ends up behind barbed wire at best and very messily dead at worst. ”

    The U.S. started out being pretty lenient. After the feds quashed the Whisky Rebellion, they did not go hard. If you were one of the leaders you got a ramshackle and poorly prepared interrogation by Hamilton (with no enhanced means that anyone has ever mentioned) and eventual pardon by Washington, except one or two who were not prosecuted at all because they were considered mentally deficient. Pennsylvania was not so understanding and got some convictions for arson and assault.

    Before the pardon, I think a few were convicted of treason and sentenced to death, though. That was not easy or lenient, but my understanding is that Washington had decided to pardon tthem before the trials were over.

  151. 151
    Ruckus says:

    @DavidTC:
    We do have an offshore location for that.

  152. 152
    jl says:

    @jl:

    ” except one or two who were not prosecuted at all because they were considered mentally deficient. ”

    I hope this does not sound uncivil, but the mental deficiency issue could apply to a lot of the sovereign citizens, from what I have heard them say on the news clips.

  153. 153
    danielx says:

    @jl:

    Depends on who’s offering the resistance….G. Washington didn’t acquire the nickname the Town Burner from the Iroqouis for nothing.

  154. 154
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @danielx: He also owned people for that matter.

  155. 155
    Cluttered Mind says:

    @🌷 Martin: You can’t arrest 1000 armed people?

    Counterpoint:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRxwBb7ev1Y

  156. 156
    AxelFoley says:

    @Roger Moore:

    Fortunately, Mr. Obama seems to prefer to be methodical and get the job done over jumping the gun. I have no doubt that the lack of action is a tactical decision rather than an abdication of authority. Something will be done, but it will be done on the government’s time table, not the media’s or the terrorists’.

    This. Does anyone seriously think that Bundy’s not gonna pay for this bullshit? The government is like 1,004, 578 – 0. You really think this piece of shit is gonna win?

    As much as I’d like to see this racist fuck and his supporters strung up, I don’t want them to become martyrs. But please believe, he’s gonna get what coming to him one way or another.

  157. 157
  158. 158
    Mo MacArbie says:

    Hell, if we really want to set them off we should send in the UN peacekeepers.

  159. 159
    Fort Geek says:

    Businesses in Bunkerville NV are losing money. The terrorists have been calling in bomb threats and death threats against hotel staff who did business with Feds.

    Buncha scumbags.

  160. 160
  161. 161
    J R in WV says:

    @Violet:

    Actually, Violet, I’ve stopped at teh Border Patrol checkpoints hundreds of time, and never shown any ID or “papers”. They sometimes look in the back seat of the truck (tough cause it’s a 350 and some of them are short) and sometimes, rarely, ask “Is everyone a US citizen?”

    Mostly they take a glance and say “Have a nice day.” and I say “Be careful out there guys.”

    It isn’t pleasant, I hate it, it probably isn’t legal/constitutional… but it is what it is. They are mostly very close to the border, except for the I-10 checkpoints, even using horseback mounted troops to get into the back country.

    I was taken into custody one night just east of El Paso for 7 or 8 hours. A very long and scary night. The border patrol staff all (100%) spoke Spanish with one another, nearly all the time.

    So it was impossible for me to know if they were chatting harmlessly, or plotting to bury us in a nearby gully to obtain $70,000 worth of equipment. Truck, trailer, backhoe, tools.

    No fun. But except for that one episode, never asked for papers.

  162. 162
    Zifnab25 says:

    The wind was a torrent of darkness among the gusty trees.
    The moon was a ghostly galleon tossed upon cloudy seas.
    The road was a ribbon of moonlight over the purple moor,
    And the highwayman came riding—
    Riding—riding—
    The highwayman came riding, up to the old inn-door.

    He’d a French cocked-hat on his forehead, a bunch of lace at his chin,
    A coat of the claret velvet, and breeches of brown doe-skin.
    They fitted with never a wrinkle. His boots were up to the thigh.
    And he rode with a jewelled twinkle,
    His pistol butts a-twinkle,
    His rapier hilt a-twinkle, under the jewelled sky.

    “One kiss, my bonny sweetheart, I’m after a prize to-night,
    But I shall be back with the yellow gold before the morning light;
    Yet, if they press me sharply, and harry me through the day,
    Then look for me by moonlight,
    Watch for me by moonlight,
    I’ll come to thee by moonlight, though hell should bar the way.”

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