There are people, even Democrats, who will forgive George Herbert Walker Bush for stealing the election from Mike Dukakis. (I am not among those people; proof of Jefferson’s electoral diddling turned up after 200 years, but I’m thinking it will take rather less than that for evidence of Lee Atwater fiddling the 1988 Ohio results to burble to the surface of the swamp.) There are people willing to forgive his tenure (official or otherwise) in the CIA. There are even people who are willing to forgive GHWB sandbagging the Iran-Contra investigation, staging the first Gulf War for his paymasters in Saudi Arabia, “spearheading” NAFTA, and nuturing The C-Plus Augustus.
Those people are idiots, criminals, or both:
The elder George Bush will not give a speech. He is done with all that, he tells friends. But he will mingle and reminisce and bask in the admiration of graying men and women who helped him govern at a time when, some thought, they had reached the end of history.
As it happens, history is not done with Mr. Bush, at least not if his advocates have anything to say about it. More than 800 supporters, allies, aides and even former opponents of Mr. Bush, the 41st president, will gather in College Station, Tex., on Friday for a three-day reunion to mark the 25th anniversary of the first Bush administration and try to burnish its legacy along the way…
Frail from a form of Parkinson’s disease, Mr. Bush, 89, has benefited from a wave of historical revisionism that has transformed him from the biggest incumbent loser since William Howard Taft to, by at least one measure, the most popular former president of the past half century….
Even for anyone stupid, or venal, enough to forgive George Herbert Walker Bush his many other crimes, one name will forever remain as a stain against him and his Presidential tenure:
Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas
Little Boots
miss you, annie.
Little Boots
can I do that thing I always do
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWWMmxyKOR0
Villago Delenda Est
Agreed.
Thomas is an abomination…an incompetent unfit to sit as a justice of the peace, let alone the US Supreme Court.
Little Boots
no omnes?
Gypsy Howell
He gave us George W Bush too. That’s pretty unforgivable.
Little Boots
human wheels?
Biscuits
Am I remembering correctly, did he not replace Thurgood Marshall? Because that makes it even more unforgivable and spite filled. The entire Bush family has been a disaster for this country.
Little Boots
why does john hate human wheels?
scav
That is one freaking tiny bubble that regards him as anything pretending to be most popular. The lack of idolized card-board cutouts, tattered photographs and hand-crafted macaroni icons at CPAC conventions and other purveys of fine tea might be the first clue. Granted, we’re arguing about a restricted and shallow pool to dominate here.
Steeplejack
@Little Boots:
John Mellen Cougarcamp, “What If I Came Knocking.”
moderateindy
The Bush administration may have been in charge of negotiating NAFTA, but it was Clinton that helped push it through and signed it into law. Without Clinton’s advocacy of the trade agreement it would have not become law.
Little Boots
@Steeplejack:
nice.
have I mentioned that you are the aweome, steeplejack.
Omnes Omnibus
AL, the ’88 election was 426 -111 in the electoral college. And like 53-47 %. Too far apart to blame on theft. Bush I did unforgivable things like appointing Tomas, but he did win in ’88.
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
what are you on about?
Villago Delenda Est
@Biscuits: Yes, Thomas took over Marshal’s seat on the USSC.
Steeplejack
@Little Boots:
Thank you. I will take my leave with this: the Rolling Stones, “Sittin’ on a Fence.”
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: Sorry, I was responding to something in the actual post. Silly me.
Little Boots
@Steeplejack:
nice.
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
fine, so bitter.
Omnes Omnibus
@Omnes Omnibus: Oh come on. Let me edit. It is less than five minutes since I posted that. FYWP.
Little Boots
steeplejack is so much nicer than you.
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: Zombies.
Little Boots
and you can’t always get what you want:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIX0ZDqDljA
Steeplejack
@Omnes Omnibus:
Huh. That version sounds slightly speeded up to me. Compare and contrast.
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
and no fair
awesome song.
different-church-lady
Wait… wha?
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: How about a little Francoise Hardy?
Omnes Omnibus
@Steeplejack: I like yours better. And I think you are right about the speed.
different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus: Man, the French really knew how to use reverb.
Steeplejack
@Steeplejack:
It’s something slightly hinky with the bass.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Omnes Omnibus: I think Word Press is a Republican.
Omnes Omnibus
@different-church-lady: Yeah, I wondered as well.
ETA: I didn’t vote in that election as I was under the belief that it was inappropriate for a serving army officer to be political. Silly me. I was happy that that my home state of Wisconsin got it right though.
different-church-lady
@Steeplejack: Oh yeah, whomever ripped that from vinyl (you can hear the crackle) either had a fast turntable or screwed up the sample rate somewhere along the line. (Really easy to accidentally turn 44.1 into 48 when moving to video)
Little Boots
actually, not bad music, just music.
Omnes Omnibus
@different-church-lady: I do love that song. But, as we are on ’60s French chanteuses, I would be remiss in omitting Sylvie Vartan.
ETA: I’ll go all Grace Jones in a flash if you bastards challenge me.
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
no getting together with steeplejack.
that is not okay.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Omnes Omnibus: I’ve voted for every Dem nominee since Jimmy Carter in 1980. Clinton’s election was special since until then I’d gone 0-3.
Little Boots
omnes, music? oh, come on, you have the best taste.
Omnes Omnibus
@BillinGlendaleCA: Mondale, skip, Clinton, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama, Obama. Became eligible to vote in ’82.
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: Fine, have some Grace, with a side of Robbie and Sly.
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
see, why we love.
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: FWIW Robbie Shakespeare and Sly Dunbar are probably the best rhythm section ever. I have never heard a thing that they have done that is less than perfect.
Little Boots
and why you don’t love, but I can’t help myself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Gbz-Lau5tc
don’t yell.
Omnes Omnibus
More Grace, Sly, Robbie.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Little Boots: What am I? Chopped liver? I give you this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjKtfvKJSuk
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
nice.
Little Boots
@BillinGlendaleCA:
you are awesome.
it’s just I have this whole, well, sick, thing going with omnes.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Little Boots: Will you two just get a room. [/snark]
BTW: If you didn’t watch that youtube clip, interesting who’s in the band.
Little Boots
@BillinGlendaleCA:
eventually, probably, but not yet
Omnes Omnibus
@BillinGlendaleCA: No. While one is flattered, one shan’t.
Omnes Omnibus
This one is partly in French.
Little Boots
and now for fun:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbyAZQ45uww
Little Boots
and because it’s beautiful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR4vE9xL3yk
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: Care for some ’80s? Oddly, the band is even quite leftish.
Bed soon.
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
nice, and yeah, bed soon. I wish I could stay up all night, but getting old. so, these guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9gKyRmic20
Little Boots
they’re right. I do sorta love you.
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: How about some more Dusty?
NotMax
Liveblogging the elections in Afghanistan.
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
good enough.
Little Boots
few better than dusty.
Little Boots
okay, just to lighten it up around here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQPBk0RD8d0
Little Boots
okay, it’s kind of different, but:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKbk_dQ8Mhg
Little Boots
okay, is it so totally weird what I said?
Omnes Omnibus
AL: I am interested in your theory that George H.W. Bush stole the 1988 election. Please explain it.
Little Boots
@Little Boots:
well, maybe. maybe just sleep.
Betty Cracker
There’s a railroad track less than a mile from my house, and it’s quite a busy one. Lots of Tropicana trains hauling citrus and god knows what else.
When trains pass by during the day, I can barely hear them. At night (like just now), it sounds like they’re blasting through my yard. Is it the lack of ambient noise that makes this so?
Little Boots
so, just a fun song, for the fun of it at 3 a.m.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUL68ZeclcA
Little Boots
okay, this always makes me cry:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-LVXR6rjXs
Little Boots
shut down the thread. wow.
Little Boots
sometimes, john. just sometimes.
Little Boots
and sometimes, I actually wish I were better too.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Betty Cracker: It probably has more to do with differences in humidity. However ambient noise might also be in play as well.
BillinGlendaleCA
Opps, guess I said a bad word. :(
Another Holocene Human
hoodie posted this earlier today (yesterday?) and I thought it was such a great insight I kind of want to put it on my wall and frame it. :)
Little Boots
@BillinGlendaleCA:
don’t be a dick
Omnes Omnibus
Here. . And now to sleep…
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
oh, don’t sleep, everything’s getting all serious.
Another Holocene Human
@Betty Cracker: Is it the lack of ambient noise that makes this so?
Basically. Weather conditions, also, too.
That ambient noise consists of daytime (rubber tire) traffic, airplanes overhead, central air units, stuff like that.
As a kid I can remember hearing the highway at night, but could never hear that during the day.
eta: birds make a lot of racket, quiet at night
Little Boots
@Little Boots:
on the other hand, that’s not the worst idea.
Little Boots
oh,come on omnes, be awake.
Little Boots
are you pissed at me?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Little Boots: Excuse me? I have a comment with an answer to Betty Cracker’s question in moderation cause I used a bad word.
Little Boots
@BillinGlendaleCA: @BillinGlendaleCA:
are you pissed at me?
Little Boots
@Little Boots:
oops, never mind.
being paranoid.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Little Boots: I was, but I realized that my comment had no context since you all can’t see the comment in moderation. So no.
Little Boots
can I offer up this song I love:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blrHHRWKygw
BillinGlendaleCA
@Little Boots: Suck up, you know I like that song. Reminds me of freshman year of college.
Little Boots
@BillinGlendaleCA:
it is awesome.
BillinGlendaleCA
Hmmm, some of the suggestions on the youtube on my tablet are pretty good. “Everytime I thing of You” by the Babys.
Little Boots
@BillinGlendaleCA:
sorry about all the weirdness. hey, how bout this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Z48dHFYLc
BillinGlendaleCA
@Little Boots: No can see, it’s coming up as blocked on the youtube app.
Betty Cracker
@BillinGlendaleCA: WP is being especially dysfunctional tonight. It put my perfectly harmless question in moderation at first too.
Little Boots
@BillinGlendaleCA:
try again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Z48dHFYLc
BillinGlendaleCA
@Betty Cracker: I thought it was because I accused WP of being a Republican earlier this evening.
Little Boots
@BillinGlendaleCA:
sorry I got paranoid.
I get weird this time of night.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Little Boots: Couldn’t see the other one either, but I know the song. Weirdness comes with the territory considering the hour for you all towards the east.
Little Boots
@BillinGlendaleCA:
damn, still. okay, it’s Church. Under the Milky Way.
and by the way, youire a good guy.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Little Boots: Ah thanks, you’re good too.
Little Boots
okay, it is almost four in the morning.
it’s toto time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTQbiNvZqaY
Little Boots
did you know we’re all part Neanderthal, except for pure Africans?
Little Boots
okay, I really should sleep, but damn, it’s cyndy lauper:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIb6AZdTr-A
Amir Khalid
@Little Boots:
No, it’s Cyndi Lauper.
raven
What up knuckleheads?
BillinGlendaleCA
@raven: That’s Mr. Knucklehead to you.
NotMax
Would attempt a quip, but this ain’t that kind of nightclub.
raven
@NotMax: So I asked you about the 7 up’s and went to bed. It was pretty good to see after all these years but looking at Richard Lynch’s bio was something I didn’t expect:
ThresherK
A part of me thinks that saying “Clarence Thomas, but let’s have an open thread” is like overturning an outhouse into a car sunroof and then saying “Shall we enjoy the scents at the flower show or the bakery?”
@Another Holocene Human: Hey, how’s that laptop / keyboard situation coming along? Still all thumbs up for the Dell refurbishers from here.
Alex
Not sure if I’d call the ’88 election stolen, but it is true that we have a stupid method of choosing presidents. Between the Willie Horton lies and distortions and the fact that we were revulsed at having Tank-sitting Dukakis in the White House (as if what he looks like in a tank is at all relevant), I would say those 2 did it. http://img.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_042908/content/01125107.guest.html
Matt McIrvin
The statement about 1988 would make more sense if it was about GWB vs. Kerry in 2004. (I’m personally skeptical that Kerry could have won a completely fair count in 2004, and he did lose the popular vote as well; but Ken Blackwell’s dinking with the election in Ohio was enough to at least call Ohio’s votes into question, and the win did turn on it.)
Maybe the statement in the OP was a simple confusion between ’88 and ’04?
OzarkHillbilly
Bush – Dukakis? That is sooooo 20th century.
JoyfulA
@Omnes Omnibus: I’ve been voting for president since 1968, and Obama was my first vote resulting in a president.* My late husband didn’t always vote, but his selections always won. We credited both of us voting for Gore for that outcome in 2000.
*I voted for Ford because I couldn’t understand a word Carter said, and then I voted for Carter when he lost. I voted for Perot as the most liberal candidate over Clinton twice (NAFTA, Sister Soulja, triangulating, etc.), and I still can’t stand Bill Clinton.
Matt McIrvin
Bush v. Dukakis was an extraordinarily nasty campaign, even by modern standards. Remember the month when it all turned into a referendum on forcing children to say the Pledge of Allegiance?
El Cid
Regarding the deregulation, anti-labor, anti-peasant shit-show sold under the false label of “free trade” NAFTA, let’s give some credit where due: to Mexican PRI elected dictator Carlos Salinas de Gortari, who realized that his levels of profiting & corruption were far less than he could achieve.
Josie
@moderateindy: You are correct. I remember Al Gore debating Perot on television over this and winning the debate decisively, in everyone’s opinion. It’s a shame that nobody understood what Perot was trying to tell us.
Matt McIrvin
…Oh, man, I just Googled “Dukakis Pledge of Allegiance” and a couple of old newspaper stories came up, and just looking at the excerpts in the Google results made my stomach clench up.
If it hadn’t been for Willie Horton, that would have been the nastiest episode in the campaign. Dukakis was defending the clear and court-affirmed First Amendment rights of a schoolgirl whose refusal to say the Pledge, as I recall, resulted in hate mail about how Hitler should have put her in the oven, and Bush successfully managed to frame it as Dukakis being against patriotism and apple pie.
Bobby Thomson
@Omnes Omnibus: This. Not to mention the linked article is about campaign messaging and not vote theft.
Marc
I love links that don’t actually have any relation to the statement that links to them.
@Matt McIrvin: Maybe AL should take a look at this electoral map (warning: link actually leads to an electoral map), and then take a look at the margins in Ohio, and explain how Atwater “fiddled” the results.
We all like to give the Great Orange Satan shit for some of its more dramatic diarists, but at least they hold the line against conspiracy theory bullshit.
Matt McIrvin
…Perot’s main legacy was bad: he was the guy who successfully convinced Americans that economic problems were mainly caused by the federal debt. It was a fine message to internalize during the boom that happened a few years later, but has caused us no end of grief post-2008.
Matt McIrvin
@Marc: 2004 is the more interesting case. As I said, the election really was close and things really were rotten in Ohio, the crucial state. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that Kerry really won.
In that case, a lot of the theorizing was inspired by exit-poll leaks early on Election Day that seemed to show Kerry with significantly bigger margins across the whole country, and it led some people to think that there was a massive nationwide conspiracy to alter election results, because of a false belief that exit polls are always the most accurate kind of poll.
But the results were actually pretty close to those of the last few days of pre-election state polls (Nate Silver wasn’t operating yet, but Sam Wang, Andrew Tanenbaum and others were aggregating them; pre-Silver, political chatter hadn’t yet internalized the idea that you could actually do a remarkably good job predicting elections this way).
Tripod
@Matt McIrvin:
When things are going south, Democratic operatives and websites have a bad habit of flogging specious (“first wave”, “second wave”) exit polling. I assume that this is because of history’s greatest monster admitting to his beatdown in 1980.
Mike in NC
Both Jimmy Carter and George H. W. Bush are 89 years old. When the former dies, the media will shrug it off with a collective “meh”, but when the latter dies it will entail two weeks of national mourning, along with many fond recollections from the degenerate family and speculation about JEB! running in 2016.
different-church-lady
@BillinGlendaleCA:
It looks like they have a room — and this is it.
different-church-lady
@Marc: I’m beginning to think this one is just an April Fool’s Day post that got delayed 3 days.
mellowjohn
@Omnes Omnibus:
Humphrey, McGovern, Carter, Anderson, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama, Obama.
Villago Delenda Est
@Omnes Omnibus: The mention of “Ohio” causes me to think that 2004 got confused with 1988.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
No mention of Panama? The first Gulf War was over keeping the oil supply out of the hands of an aggressive dictator in the hands of more US friendly dictators, so I will give that to GH Bush, but there was no such excuse for Panama.
patrick II
@mellowjohn:
I would bet that you, like me, regret that Anderson vote.
Villago Delenda Est
@BillinGlendaleCA: I didn’t vote for Jimmy Carter, who I voted for in 1976, in 1980, went with John Anderson instead, but since then, it’s been nothing but Ds.
I was a very happy camper in 1992, let me tell you.
There was a time when Army officers simply did not vote at all, prior to WWII, so when there was speculation about Eisenhower running for office, no one knew what party he’d be inclined to represent…both parties wooed him.
However, that rule pretty much went away after WWII, although when I was in it was considered somewhat bad form to be partisan among some officers, but not others (I distinctly remember an O-4 being jubilant at Reagan’s election in 1980). While it’s within regulations to have a bumper sticker on your POV, or to wear political buttons when in civvies, I’d never do it.
After I got out it was Clinton/Gore all the way, baby!
Another Holocene Human
@ThresherK: Something got in the way. End result, new filing cabinets, moving actual physical files around, lol.
Ajabu
@mellowjohn:
Because I’m even older, my first vote was for LBJ (who, if he hadn’t gotten mired in Vietnam, would have been 2nd only to FDR in 20th century presidents) and all others were the same as yours except 1980. I was in California and had already experienced the bumbling B-movie star up close & personal as Governor. I would have voted for anyone to the left of Hitler running against that fool. But had to be a Democrat.
And. damn, hasn’t the last 30+ years shown how right I was?
Rex Everything
@Marc: Yeah. I think this is uncharacteristic of AL, but the link she provided has nothing to do with her assertion about Ohio.