I Think What Kills Me the Most

I keep looking at the mugshot from the post below, and I think what hurts the most is looking at the pool of tears in her neck- she’d obviously been sobbing for hours.

Shanesha-Taylor-2

When you think about the story behind the photograph, and look at the pain she is going through, even though it is just a mugshot, it’s every bit as powerful as a Pulitzer prize winning photograph. That photograph is every bit as evocative as the naked child running from napalm or the street execution in Viet Nam or some of the pictures from the civil rights movement with fire hoses pointed at people.

So messed up.

And look, I know nothing about this woman other than what Thinkprogress had at the link. Maybe she has a checkered past. Who fucking cares? She was doing what she had to do to provide for her kids, so what the fuck does her past matter? I’m sure the wingnuts will find some way to hate on her, but I look at that picture, it really hurts. So if she had some problems in the past, who cares? This is America, where if you get a chance you reinvent yourself and become a better person. Anyone remember how many DUI’s Dick Cheney had?

I seriously hope this goes viral, and she gets a lawyer, an accountant, and a therapist to deal with the trauma she has been through. Hell, I hope she gets rich and becomes and advocate.

*** Update ***

This:

Thank you again for this series of posts. What struck me besides everything folks have pointed out is that it’s likely that is her best dress, that she put on especially for the job interview, and that she started her day with excitement and hope and the prospect of a bit of a break in the form of the chance at a job, and that she loves her children enough to try to get that and that she thought that she might, just might, get a break from whatever the Powers that Be are. Instead she got fucked by a system that is terribly, badly fucked. It seems it’s not just her own legal predicament, it’s not just losing her children, but I see in Ms. Taylor’s tears an utter hopelessness and despair after she tried to do the “right” thing and got fucked for being poor. And, yes, Dorothea Lange’s photo of the emigrant mother has that same despair in it.

Fuck.

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223 replies
  1. 1
    Cervantes says:

    The Dust Bowl photographs by Dorothea Lange.

  2. 2
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    I noticed that pool of tears earlier when you first posted. It’s killer, it almost looks like a jeweled necklace.

    This photo needs to take on a life of its own, and haunt the sleep night after night of every fucking member of congress or state legislature or judgmental church who blames her for being poor. For not having a job. For not getting daycare for her kids. For spending way more than she should on food. For not being educated. For not being rich. Or white.

    This story, and that picture, will be with me for a long time. And I think that is as it should be.

  3. 3
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Cervantes:

    Yes, those too.

  4. 4
    Halteclere says:

    I saw that, plus that she hadn’t even wiped the tears out of her eyes for the picture. It looks like she is just numb.

  5. 5
    RedKitten says:

    The pain and despair in her eyes…it breaks my heart. She took a horrible risk, but man…NONE of her other choices were going to benefit those kids. It was the only chance she had to make a better life for her babies.

  6. 6
    ruemara says:

    I once posted this for my birthday. Some days, it is all too apropos.

  7. 7
    Gin & Tonic says:

    You know, Eddie Adams, the photographer who caught that execution, didn’t want to be known for that photo. He was more complex than people may imagine, and his words on photography should be remembered more than that photo.

    Still photographs are the most powerful weapons in the world. People believe them; but photographs do lie, even without manipulation. They are only half-truths.

  8. 8
    gene108 says:

    Scotius
    donated $100.00
    Friday, March 28, 2014

    I saw this highlighted on http://www.balloon-juice.com. That photo just breaks my heart.
    – See more at: http://www.youcaring.com/help-.....J0Srp.dpuf

    From the fundraiser link that was linked to in the earlier Balloon Juice post.

    EDIT: Not me that donated this or referenced Balloon Juice.

  9. 9
    dexwood says:

    @Halteclere:
    I thought, perhaps, she wasn’t able to wipe her tears away because her hands are cuffed behind her back.

  10. 10
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    even though it is just a mugshot, it’s every bit as powerful as a Pulitzer prize winning photograph.

    I hope it wins a Pulitzer. Is there anything we can do to push that to the committee?

  11. 11
    RSR says:

    This is a stunning set of posts. I’m very moved, and don’t really know what else to say, other than to thank John for posting them.

    We live in a country that unnecessarily contributes to these situations, and calls it success. I believe we can and should do better.

  12. 12
    Suffern ACE says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: well no. In this case, the pulitzer would be going to the organization that took her children away.

  13. 13
    Lokahi says:

    Thank you, John, for bringing this to the fore.

  14. 14
    LookingForACanadian says:

    Thank you so much for posting. Moved beyond words.

  15. 15
    mclaren says:

    This picture gives us the pure essence of Shithole America: a nation of wannabe Jeffrey Dahmers who love torture and suffering and fear and despise joy and pleasure.

    This picture reminds us of what it means to be an American.

    It means spontaneously rising to your feet reciting the pledge of allegiance whenever you see a strapping 250-man he-man beating up a crippled child.

    It means cheering until your throat is hoarse whenever a young girl gets burned alive with napalm.

    Being an American means a lifetime membership in Bully Worshipers Anonymous, a group of sadistic cowards too gutless to actually commit public atrocities, but eager to applaud them when committed by someone with power and a badge.

    Being an American means making jokes about prison rape and snickering when out of three women in the U.S. military get raped by other American soldiers.

    Being an American means taking turns with a drunk passed-out underage highschool girl while filming the whole thing on an iPhone and high-fiving each other, then uploading the video to Facebook.

    America is a country of Morlocks, drunk with hate. America is a society of “the most timorous, sniveling, poltroonish, ignominious mob of serfs and goose-steppers ever gathered under one flag in Christendom since the fall of the Eastern Empire” (in H.L. Mencken’s words), lusting to torment the weakest and most defenseless among us.

    But then, we have to remember that America is not, strictly speaking, a nation: it’s a rabies infection in the global body politic.

  16. 16
    TooManyJens says:

    @mclaren: Have you not gone and fucked yourself yet?

    I mean, god damn. Do you have anything to offer other than shitting on people 24/7?

  17. 17
    Violet says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I hope the story gets more attention, but if it does, the poor woman is going to be subject to a thorough countertop inspection by the rabid hordes. Her life, whether she was ever married to her kids’ father(s), is/are he/they in prison, does she have previous arrests, what’s the situation with the rest of her family, why couldn’t they babysit, how many of them are in prison, does anyone even have a parking ticket. Etc.

  18. 18
    West of the Cascades says:

    Thank you again for this series of posts. What struck me besides everything folks have pointed out is that it’s likely that is her best dress, that she put on especially for the job interview, and that she started her day with excitement and hope and the prospect of a bit of a break in the form of the chance at a job, and that she loves her children enough to try to get that and that she thought that she might, just might, get a break from whatever the Powers that Be are. Instead she got fucked by a system that is terribly, badly fucked. It seems it’s not just her own legal predicament, it’s not just losing her children, but I see in Ms. Taylor’s tears an utter hopelessness and despair after she tried to do the “right” thing and got fucked for being poor. And, yes, Dorothea Lange’s photo of the emigrant mother has that same despair in it.

    I would love to ask every Republican legislator in the United States what they would do, as legislators, to help avoid what Ms. Taylor did. I bet that not but a handful could say anything that was not excrement.

  19. 19
    Anoniminous says:

    My opinion of this would fry my computer, my internet connection, the Internet, your internet connection, and your computer. So I’ll merely state: this sucks and it will keep happening until a majority of Americans decide to stop it.

  20. 20
    Linda says:

    When I read stories on lefty blog sites, I go to google news to check out what people are reading in their local news outlets. And many of them left out little details. Like SHE’S HOMELESS. And the comments, as you can expect, were horrible. Many were full of wishful thinking that the welfare system “takes care of things like this.” One lady said they “provide babysitters.” (huge HA!).

    In truth, many middle class people I know imagine that if they were poor, they would be models of plucky self-sufficiency, when in fact, if they lost their car they wouldn’t know whether to shit or go blind.

  21. 21
    chauncey1186 says:

    @TooManyJens:

    Can you refute any part of mclaren’s comment? If so, please proceed.

  22. 22
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @mclaren:

    You are all of us in a bad mood.

    We really don’t need that, mmkay?

  23. 23
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @chauncey1186: mclaren has an opinion of the US and has stated it. One cannot refute an opinion. One could offer a shitload of facts that contradict mclaren’s assertions, but mclaren, being the asshole troll that he is, wouldn’t care.

  24. 24
    Anoniminous says:

    @chauncey1186:

    That was me in 1986 before I took an Anger Management course. It’s not good for oneself to deep fry your brain in rage. Also it doesn’t do a lick to solve the situation.

  25. 25
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Violet:

    I expect you’re right, but I’m not sure how that scenario is a whole lot worse than what she’s going through now.

  26. 26
    patrick II says:

    When Ann Romney complained that people did not appreciate how much hard work she did to raise her kids, I don’t think she had this sort of thing in mind.

  27. 27
    Linda says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: One refutation is that many have given out of their pockets to help this woman, but yer right, when your mind is nailed shut, that’s it.

  28. 28
    chauncey1186 says:

    @dexwood: Generally, once you are in “receiving” in county lockup where you get fingerprinted and have your pic taken, you’re no longer cuffed. (don’t ask me how I know this!)

  29. 29
    Mnemosyne says:

    This certainly puts my crappy day at work in perspective. Jesus.

  30. 30
    rda909 says:

    Shanesha’s pain is nothing – NOTHING – compared to the anguish true American patriot Edward Snowden is feeling right now in Putin’s Russia. Lying ones self into a job specifically to steal classified information, with the help of a Brazilian sidekick to then use that information as blackmail, and escaping to China and Russia in order to expose America’s first black president as the creator of spying, is much more valuable than Shanesha’s desire to feed her kids. Let’s be real here, my progressive brothers and sister. And who needs more kids like “that” anyway, since they could just end up being inspired by evil incarnate BaGoldmanSachs Obummer.

    Maybe Shanesha should start doing regular interviews and live video feeds from jail to make her case and blame Obummer in order to develop a base of “progressive” supporters, since Eddie seems to have no problem doing that from Putin’s Russia? I, as a progressive, have black friends by the way and watch MLK’s Dream speech every year, so back off!!!!!1!

    Save your sympathy for Shanesha and give it to a much more oppressed victim of the Obama world – Eddie Snowden. Priorities, buddy, c’mon!!!111!

  31. 31
    Ash Can says:

    Great post, John. This is a prime example of what’s wrong with this country.

  32. 32
    SatanicPanic says:

    This is heartbreaking. Being poor is fucking awful. I hate that our society can’t do more for people and can’t help people without humiliating them. Thanks for these posts John, we all need to be reminded of these things

  33. 33
    Linda says:

    I’m struck by something I read years ago: the autobiography of country music star Tammy Wynette. When she was first making the rounds in Nashville as a single mother with a couple of little kids, she often left them alone, in a car, while she auditioned at studios. So why was she a plucky little lady, and this woman is….?

  34. 34
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @rda909: Jesus fucking Christ, what an asshole.

  35. 35
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @chauncey1186: How do you know this?

  36. 36
    Violet says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Agreed, but it’s in addition to what she’s going through now, not in place of it. I only hope if the story gets wider attention that the attention also brings more resources and help her way to ease the challenges of having every area of her life scrutinized by privileged moocher wingnuts.

  37. 37
    chauncey1186 says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Sorry, but I’m having a hard time disagreeing with much of what he/she is saying. Call me a “firebagger”, but he/she isn’t entirely wrong given the current state of things in this country. Sure, I believe in “Kumbaya” and all that, but I’ve lived all over the globe and this IS the impression the rest of the world has of us. Can’t tell you how many people have asked me when I travel abroad if I carry a gun. That alone should make us ALL pause and think.

  38. 38
    Laertes says:

    For about the hundredth time, I wonder how the $&^! you ever thought you were a Republican.

  39. 39
    chauncey1186 says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Recovering alkie. DUIs in multiple counties.

  40. 40
    Violet says:

    @Linda: The laws have probably changed, in addition to Tammy Wynette being white. We were talking about this in the thread below, how in the 1970’s many commenters were left in cars by their parents when said parents were doing errands. It was common then. These days you’d be arrested for doing a lot of the same things our parents did in earlier generations.

  41. 41
    BGinCHI says:

    @rda909: Douche.

  42. 42
    Anna in PDX says:

    Heartbreaking. Thanks John for posting about it.

  43. 43
    Linda says:

    @Violet: Yeah, true. If you read the Jeanette Walls’ memoir, Glass Castle, it’s obvious that if she was a child now, her parents would have lost custody five ways from Tuesday. It’s not necessarily the formal laws that have changed, but the attitudes behind them. My sister sarcastically calls it “the golden age when you could abuse your child.”

  44. 44
    chauncey1186 says:

    @Linda: cause she’s black?????

    hmmmmm…….

  45. 45
    Mnemosyne says:

    @rda909:

    Too soon.

  46. 46
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    Can’t tell you how many people have asked me when I travel abroad if I carry a gun.

    Oddly, I’ve been to a lot of other countries and I’ve never been asked if I carry a gun.

  47. 47
    chauncey1186 says:

    @Anoniminous: Who said anything about rage? I’m laughing my ass off at how “stoopid” the powers that be are to think that this story won’t go viral.

    I’m doing my part – are you?

  48. 48
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Cripey, I hope that was elaborate snark. Because if not, it’s appalling.

  49. 49
    rda909 says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: @Omnes Omnibus: There is no one person in many decades who has done more to help people in Shanesha’s situation, and stop the literally decades-long-in-the-making fascist takeover of America, than President Barack Hussein Obama, and all in the face of the most obstructionist Congress in history.

    Incessant whining about the supposed evils of Obummer while at the same time supporting a traitorous thief only serves to help Republicans win more elections, and create more Shanesha situations. It’s that simple, so Cole and the like can spare me their crocodile tears for people who can and will benefit the most from President Obama’s work fighting the fascists. Every single time I view this site, I can go back a posts or two and find people supporting the Snowdenwald and disparaging President Obama. This is insane considering the stakes for the Shaneshas of the world. I care about real, tangible help for people such as Shanesha – not blog posts which will soon be followed by Idiot Obummer/Eddie The Hero in short order, especially with incredible important midterms coming later this year.

  50. 50
    Kropadope says:

    @chauncey1186: There’s a wide range of options between Kumbaya and unrelentingly hostile.

  51. 51
    Amir Khalid says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    It definitely looked like snark to me.

  52. 52
    chauncey1186 says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:You may want to actually venture out of the airport on your layover. Just sayin’

  53. 53
    chauncey1186 says:

    @Kropadope: And how many of those stages actually effected change?

  54. 54
    Kropadope says:

    @chauncey1186:

    You may want to actually venture out of the airport on your layover. Just sayin’

    Isn’t that where they’re paid to ask about your gun?

  55. 55
    John Cole says:

    @rda909: This is the kind of comment I truly do not understand. If Obama could run for office in 2016 I would crawl over broken glass to vote for him again and would do everything I could to raise as much money as possible to help him get re-elected. Best President of my lifetime, and the only Presidential candidate I have voted for and do not regret the vote. I just think he is wrong on some issues, but I really do love the guy and everything he has done. I can’t understand how anyone who reads this website would think I believe anything else.

  56. 56
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @chauncey1186: I have. But thanks for being a condescending ass.

  57. 57
    danielx says:

    @Violet:

    Of course they will. Because if anybody ends up in that kind of fix, it must be his or her own fault. I can almost hear Michelle Malkin having a ragegasm now – “Fly, my monkeys! Fly!”

    @West of the Cascades: .

    I would love to ask every Republican legislator in the United States what they would do, as legislators, to help avoid what Ms. Taylor did. I bet that not but a handful could say anything that was not excrement.

    They’d likely reply that she could start by being born white with well-to-do parents. It’s certainly what Rush Limbaugh will say, and you can bet he’ll be featuring her in the verbal diarrhea that flows so freely from his mouth.

    What truly gets to me is that while this is an awful story, and I truly hope she receives help (rephrase: is going to receive help)…there are hundreds of thousands of people out there in the same or worse fixes, and they aren’t going to receive help. When poverty has a human face, we react; when we read statistics we say, yes, that’s terrible, and go on. (Or if you’re a wingnut you say fuck ’em and their brats too, and go on.) If possible, we donate time or money to worthy causes that provide help to people, but one can only spread oneself so far. As an individual you can’t save everybody and one shouldn’t feel guilty for not doing so. But this is a reminder of how many people are trying desperately to make lives for themselves and their children against appalling odds and political indifference.

    But if even one person gets help through people reading and responding on a personal level, that’s a good thing, no matter what motivations are at work.

    Edit: Maricopa County Sheriff’s Department and Scottsdale PD are probably getting somewhat uneasy about the amount of attention being focused on them at the moment. Which is a good thing.

  58. 58
    Cervantes says:

    @mclaren: Your portrayal is important insofar as it captures some aspects of America. There are other aspects, some good, some bad, some unspeakable in polite company.

    What is happening to this woman — Ms. Taylor — is not easy to imagine. As the photograph is taken: She is most likely still in shock (and I mean that physiologically). She has no idea where her kids are (and neither do her kids, may someone please show them mercy). She has no idea where her car and her meager belongings are. If she had a photo of her mother, or of anyone, that she was saving; if she had a list of telephone numbers hopefully scribbled on a scrap of paper; if she had medications; if she had a key for a storage locker somewhere — if, if, if — she will likely never see any of those things again. At this stage she has probably been made to wait for hours at a time. She has been called the usual names but this time she was not allowed simply to walk away. She has been pushed into and out of a windowless truck, handcuffed, cold, transported, and stored, most likely with people who scare her. She has been searched, inside and out. She knows they will soon take her clothes away and give her bright orange to wear — but other than that, she has no idea what is in store. Where she was, things were impossible but she was trying. Where she is now is beyond humiliation, where it is only too easy for a person to vanish. Where she is now, her days as a human being are numbered.

    Now think how many others like her there are, whose names we don’t know, whose tearful faces do not yet haunt us. If you keep thinking about this — and you should — it can overcome you. Beware.

  59. 59
    Anoniminous says:

    @chauncey1186:

    I started “doing my part” to end this shit in 1966.

  60. 60
    Kropadope says:

    @chauncey1186: Unrelentingly hostile would be the least likely to effect any positive change. If you’re just screaming and insulting someone, they’re probably gonna shut you out and the people listening will shut both of you out. I’m American, born and raised, and none of what McLaren said reflects my attitude or not many (any?) of the people I know.

    Perhaps McLaren is the sort of sadistic fuck he describes. (S)he certainly seems to have put a lot of thought into it.

  61. 61
    chauncey1186 says:

    Has anyone bothered to ask her name?

  62. 62
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    Hey hey hey! What happened to Betty Cracker’s “Instant Karma” thread!?

  63. 63
    chauncey1186 says:

    @Anoniminous: And how successful have ya been?

  64. 64
    Mnemosyne says:

    @chauncey1186:

    It’s in the other post. Did you not notice that this is a follow-up?

  65. 65
    Anoniminous says:

    @rda909:

    …incredible important midterms coming later this year.

    This.

    This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This.

  66. 66
    Anoniminous says:

    @chauncey1186:

    At the macro-level I’ve obviously failed. At the micro-level I’ve had my successes.

  67. 67
    rda909 says:

    @BGinCHI: Don’t know about you, but I spent countless hours leading up to the 2010 midterms going door-to-door and volunteering at my nearest OFA office, and gearing up now to do the same for the midterms later this year. The absolutely CONSTANT disparaging of President Obama that happened then and is happening now, either as a Wall St Trojan Horse or as a moron getting rolled by Republicans, had a big impact on getting people to work for him and Democrats in general.

    If we had a Democratic House right now and the last few years, I think Shanesha’s chances of help right now would be much higher. Hence, my anger at this kind of thing. And to rub salt in the wounds, there’s a contingent here and many other places that literally idolize the Snowdenwald, despite their clear traitorous activity and obvious hatred for President Obama. Really wonder what the motivation is. But yea, whatever, I’m the douche. Hope you “feel” better now, since in reality, that’s all its really about probably for you, and I know for Cole since he’s shared so much of his background. Too bad Shanesha and her kids don’t feel good right now (and by the way, I spent some of childhood in protective child services and feel terribly for her children especially).

  68. 68
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    Shanesha Taylor. There was an earlier post by Cole on the specifics.

  69. 69
    Kropadope says:

    @John Cole: Perhaps it has something to do with the degree of acknowledging Obama’s attempts to improve privacy/drone policies. Also, I don’t have a strong opinion about Snowden, really, but co-hero GG is just awful and probably making things worse, regardless of his intentions.

  70. 70
    chauncey1186 says:

    @Mnemosyne: @Mnemosyne: After another twelve hour day at work, I’m trying to follow about 9 different threads on this site alone. Forgive me if I can’t keep up. Most humans can’t.

  71. 71
    Marc says:

    @Linda:

    One refutation is that many have given out of their pockets to help this woman

    Yeah, but what are the odds that mclaren is one of them?

  72. 72
    Ash Can says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I happened to spot that. I have mixed feelings about it. Karma for the stupid truck driver, sure. But not a smart move on the other driver’s part to be so distracted by it as to film it, as opposed to simply focusing on being a responsible driver. Maybe Betty had mixed feelings too, and decided to take it down.

  73. 73
    Greg says:

    After much consideration I have come down firmly on the whole minimum income thing. It would at least partially solve problems like this poor young woman has. If she had been guaranteed a certain amount every month, no matter what, no matter why, then she never would have been reduced to this. And quite frankly, it would solve the unemployment problem and drive wages up, because the minute people knew that they didn’t have to put up with their shitty minimum wage jobs they would quit in droves and employers would be forced to either pay more or face a permanent lack of employees to keep their businesses running. It would turn the tables and give job applicants the ability to choose the best offer instead of settling for the only offer. But, of course, that is wishful thinking on my part because God forbid that anyone anywhere in America get paid for even one nanosecond of time that doesn’t directly produce profit for someone else. I just thank God I live in California and not that shitty hellhole excuse for a state that is called Arizona.

  74. 74
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @chauncey1186: Why should mclaren even by bothered by this lady’s predicament? She’s an American, isn’t she? That apparently makes her a kind of walking tumor instead of a human being, and her unfortunate kids are too. So there’s nothing to worry about here at all!

    In other words, this is the kind of rage that just crawls up its own asshole and negates itself. I have it sometimes myself. But I don’t post it. Not very often, at least.

  75. 75
    Mandalay says:

    Her fundraiser has received over $20,000 now. It has been increasing at over $1,000 per hour this evening.

  76. 76
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Ash Can: you got further than I did. I just saw something about instant karma, truck driver, but never had a chance to read the post.

  77. 77
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Kropadope: And nothing about Snowden and Greenwald has fuck all to do with this situation.

  78. 78
    Kropadope says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Correct, but I’m not sure if you observed this, I’m not the only one discussing it or even the initiator.

  79. 79
    chauncey1186 says:

    @Kropadope: Please proceed.

  80. 80
    Mandalay says:

    Nobody could have predicted that there would be posts about Glenn Greenwald on this thread.

  81. 81
    Chris says:

    @Greg:

    I’ve said for years that you could hammer unemployment to zero within a month by soaking the rich in New Deal era level taxes and using the money to hire people – or, in your scenario (which I prefer), guaranteeing them minimum income. The argument for trickle down is “let the rich keep all their money, they’ll create jobs,” right? Guess what? They’re not performing that function right now. So take their money and do it for them.

    Never happen, of course.

  82. 82
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @chauncey1186: And yet, in the absence of any facts, you chose to make insinuations. Nice.

  83. 83
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Mandalay:

    That’s fantastic, as long as the $20 large actually go to help her (I contributed a very tiny part of that, so I’m optimistic it will). I really want somebody to stay on top of Ms. Taylor’s story — so many of us are now invested, emotionally and financially.

  84. 84
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Greg: Maybe California can institute that. I wouldn’t be surprised if some states start looking at that in the next few years.

  85. 85
    rda909 says:

    @John Cole: Appreciate the honest response and I seriously don’t mean to be such a prick, but I’ve gotten pretty pissed in recent years and vent sometimes. I’ve stopped reading here regularly, but whenever I stop by I see a pro-Snowdenwald screed that’s filled at the same time with anti-Obama themes, and that is incredibly dumb in my humble opinion (you just had one the other day). I’m going face-to-face with people who have voted Democratic in the past, and many are repeating this nonsense, and it’s really making our jobs much harder to, you know, actually win elections. The stakes are incredibly high right now, and Ron Paul-supporting Eddie Snowden is not a good person, and should not be allowed to derail the incredible accomplishments of President Obama, even one little bit. Stories like Shanesha’s right now are a perfect example of what I’m talking about, and and priorities, so it’s time to get “fired up” right now. We have to win this November or there will be many more Shaneshas out there, and that process begins right now. No more Eddie or Glenn, in my opinion.

  86. 86
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Kropadope: Well aware of that. I simply responded to you since you were the last one to participate in the sub-thread.

  87. 87
    Kropadope says:

    @Chris: It’s also fun how income taxes are presented as a detriment to investing in your business, while it’s quite the opposite. Why ramp up your business and work harder when you can make more money by paying yourself a huge salary because, hey, low taxes?

  88. 88
    chauncey1186 says:

    @rda909: Firebagger says what?

  89. 89
    Mnemosyne says:

    @chauncey1186:

    Forgive me if I can’t keep up.

    You could try reading the first line of the post you’re commenting on next time. Just to give you a hint as to what the post is about.

  90. 90
    rda909 says:

    @chauncey1186: Wait, what? Exact opposite. Try to keep up.

  91. 91
    chopper says:

    @Kropadope:

    I’m sorry, but being an American means raping underage girls. you can’t refute that.

  92. 92
    Ash Can says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: If I’m remembering this correctly, the story — and video — entailed a woman driving along a 4-lane divided highway in FL who had a big pickup truck tailgating her. She was in the left lane, but couldn’t/didn’t want to pull into the right lane because there was traffic in that lane next to her and she was coming up to the intersection where she wanted to make a left turn. Tailgater zoomed into the left lane next to her as soon as he had the chance and, rather than simply passing her, emphatically drove alongside of her, flipping her the bird. When he did finally accelerate ahead of her, he did something to spin out and come to rest way over on the other side of the highway. Served his ass right, to be sure, but I’m just hoping the woman doing the filming didn’t present a real obstacle to anyone else.

  93. 93
    Kropadope says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, sorry, I’m actually participating in both sub threads. Although, this:

    @chauncey1186:

    Please proceed.

    is miserable. What, didn’t have any actual thing to say? Responding 10 minutes later to a post you already responded to, well after I responded to your response? What are you doing besides being an alternate name for McLaren so you can fake support for your own screed? I haven’t seen McLaren since, can’t multitask?

  94. 94
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Chris:

    At the moment, I’d rather use the money to hire people, at least to start with. State and county governments have been cut back for years and are barely hanging on by a thread, so hiring a bunch of people to do even basic things like road repairs would make a huge difference for them and for their communities.

    One of the reasons the New Deal was such a success was that the government was paying people to build and create things. Not just physical things, like buildings and parks and roads and bridges, but art and literature.

  95. 95
    chauncey1186 says:

    @Kropadope: Yup! And I chose locally militantly assertive. Does that satisfy your totebagger sensibilities? Happy to help make your “advocacy” more palatable to you. God forbid you should actually have to take a stand and put yourself out to support a cause.

  96. 96
    Scotius says:

    @gene108:

    Not me that donated this or referenced Balloon Juice.

    It was me. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen a photo affect me quite like that one.

  97. 97
    Kropadope says:

    @chauncey1186: Yeah, and I’m sure you’re wonderfully effective. You’ve really made the world a wonderful place, trying to bring the tactics of the right to the left. Good job.

  98. 98
    Suzanne says:

    Mr. Suzanne teaches in Scottsdale. In the one part of Scottsdale that is poor. It’s kind of horrible—in the last election, the City had six or so bonds up for a vote, and Scottsdale residents rejected every single one. Schools, roads, etc. The place is absolutely packed with the worst kind of people. I try to avoid it as much as possible.

    I wish there was some way to help this poor lady out. Why don’t we have public childcare? Shit, I would have watched this woman’s kids for her, had I known. It’s just so awful.

  99. 99
    Ash Can says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Also (FYWP for not letting me edit my post), if Tailgater had been injured in the accident (not likely from the looks of it, but still) or had hit another car (just dumb luck that he didn’t), that would have been no laughing matter. All in all, probably not exactly the best occasion for schadenfreude. (And I don’t mean that as a slam against Betty — she had mixed feelings too.)

    ETA: And it’s back up. Still don’t mean this as a slam against Betty — after all, it is funny in a way.

  100. 100
    chauncey1186 says:

    @Kropadope: uhm…what????

  101. 101
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @chauncey1186: You aren’t very bright, are you?

  102. 102
    chauncey1186 says:

    @Kropadope: Can you refute any of what he/she is saying?

  103. 103
    mai naem says:

    There’s very little empathy in this country. I don’t know if its because its such a dog eat dog society. It’s very difficult to get past a major life screw up in this country. You have a kid when you’re young, forget it. Chances are you’ll be poor at least until the kid’s in high school. If you end up in prison for a non-violent crime, forget it. You can’t legally work around kids, the elderly, law enforcement, finance, the court system, many jobs that require some form of licensing and healthcare, this on top of places that don’t hire felons. If you get seriously ill forget it, just surrender already because you’re going to be poor forever. If you didn’t finish college in your twenties, good luck keeping a decent paying job. There’s no “lets help this person get up on their feet.” Nope. Let the person find a way up and if they don’t, oh well, they deserve to be poor and homeless.

  104. 104
    Ian says:

    @chauncey1186:
    Can’t refute pie

  105. 105
    Betty Cracker says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I couldn’t get the vid to work right. I fixed it and reposted.

  106. 106
    chauncey1186 says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: @SiubhanDuinne: Ad hominem attacks are the second last refuge of a scoundrel.

  107. 107
    Kropadope says:

    @chauncey1186: Not that I should need to, but crime statistics and common sense would both indicate that somewhat fewer than 100% of high school girls are raped and fewer than 100% of high school boys are rapists. I would suggest the number is, in fact, dramatically lower.

    Let’s put a bunch of Americans in a stadium, not knowing what they’re there to see, and have a giant man beat up a cripple and see what kind of reaction that gets. My guess is it wouldn’t end happily for Mr. He-Man.

  108. 108
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @mai naem: Over $20,000 donated to help Ms. Taylor already.

  109. 109
    Cacti says:

    This is the face of the 21st century American dream.

    Destitution and despair, even for those who try to do the right thing.

    Horrible.

  110. 110
    Scotius says:

    @Laertes:

    For about the hundredth time, I wonder how the $&^! you ever thought you were a Republican.

    I know. For at least the last 30 years, the Republican party has been all about hurting and humiliating poor people while comforting and further enriching wealthy people. I don’t know how John made it into adulthood without his head exploding. I’m glad he did though.

  111. 111
    Fair Economist says:

    Laws have changed – but – there was a case, oh , ten years ago at UC Irvine where a professor left an infant in the the car when he went to work – he just forgot the baby was in the car. The baby died. And the dad *didn’t* go to jail. Much worse case but no legal punishment. So it’s not *just* the law that made them throw the book at this woman for something that wasn’t actually particularly dangerous (this time of year).

  112. 112
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @chauncey1186: Hackneyed comebacks are up there too.

    Look, mate, if you think that US society sucks and has no redeeming features, fine. Your opinion. Opinions cannot be refuted. I don’t deny that our society has a shitload of blemishes. I just choose not to say fuck it. I look for the good as well. If you can’t or won’t, yours is a sad existence.

  113. 113
    Ian says:

    @Greg:
    I would think it was a great idea if it wasn’t a cover for business and wingnuts to gut the whole security net. Get it all wrapped up into 1 easy to repeal program, and take one vote to rid it all. Also guaranteed minimum income, much like the flat-tax, fails to take into account regional income differences. Once you start changing these systems to account for that, they start to look more and more like the system already in place.

  114. 114
    chauncey1186 says:

    @Kropadope: I try every day to make the world a better place. I run a free healthcare clinic, coordinate food pantry food drives, and coordinate our Volunteer Income Tax Assistance program. Oh yeah, and I work for a non profit that pays ZERO benefits which means I get my heath insurance for me and my two girls via healthcare.gov. Prior to the ACA we lived on a wing and a prayer. And before you judge me – my ex decided three years ago that being an alcoholic was a legitimate life choice! No child support, no help with college expenses. I’m on my own.

    I like to think that I make a difference every day in the lives of the people we serve. And I don’t need your approval, hon.

  115. 115
    Betty Cracker says:

    @rda909: I’ve got no use for Snowden or Greenwald as wannabe celebrities, but damned if I’m gonna give up my right to disagree with the POTUS and say so in a public forum, and it’s bullshit to imply that doing so empowers Republicans and promotes the oppression of poor people. You find Snowald fans irritating: fair enough. I find people who infest those same threads to question the intentions and loyalty of good Democrats almost as creepy as the W cultists post-9/11. Fuck all that noise.

  116. 116
    Kropadope says:

    @chauncey1186: Man, that’s mighty charitable of you, helping people you openly despise. Do you tell them to their face? It’s not a free clinic if they’re just refusing to pay you.

  117. 117
    chauncey1186 says:

    @Kropadope: And if that cripple were a muslim…or black? What say you now?

  118. 118
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @chauncey1186: I would say the same result happens. You seem embittered.

  119. 119
    Kropadope says:

    @chauncey1186: You might get a smattering of assholes who are into that, but doesn’t matter, that’s not your McLaren’s claim that you asked me to refute.

    Why do I get the feeling you fantasize about he-men torturing white Christians?

  120. 120
    Kropadope says:

    @chauncey1186: Oh, that’s cute, you can use a phonebook.

    I have to remember that I got bored talking to you like forever ago.

  121. 121
    WaynersT says:

    God shits hard.

  122. 122
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @chauncey1186: You are signing on to mclaren’s Americans are violent rapists, etc., schtick. From this, one might logically surmise that you despise Americans. It flows from what you have said. As a result, it isn’t unreasonable to wonder if your views filter out to those you serve.

  123. 123
    chauncey1186 says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Hogwash!

  124. 124
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @chauncey1186: Refute it. Use logic.

  125. 125
    chauncey1186 says:

    @Mnemosyne: So what’s her name?

  126. 126
    Mnemosyne says:

    @chauncey1186:

    Why, is your index finger broken so it’s impossible for you to click on links?

    Hint: someone already posted her name. Perhaps if you actually read other people’s replies instead of skimming through to find things to be offended about, your ignorance would have been resolved by now.

    But probably not.

  127. 127
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @chauncey1186: Do you know? A time stamp on your post of more than a minute past mine means you had to look it up.

    FWIW I already posted it above.

  128. 128
    Anonymous Coward says:

    What gets me is that they’re not even sated kicking poor adults when they’re down. Poor kids get it even worse.

  129. 129
    chauncey1186 says:

    @Mnemosyne: Call me, I’m waiting.

  130. 130
    Kropadope says:

    @chauncey1186: Yes, I can. Real humans, not you.

  131. 131
    chauncey1186 says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Call me.

  132. 132
    Aleta says:

    Three companies (JP Morgan, Affiliated Computer Services, and eFunds) have received hundreds of millions of dollars from states to issue cards for food stamps and unemployment. Then they turn around and CHARGE the people in need — by deducting fees from their cards for ATM withdrawals and even for CALLING their customer service lines. If someone’s card is stolen or lost, the replacement charge in Arizona is $5 after one free replacement per year. For each machine put in a store to accept the food stamp card, the banks charge the states rent and monthly fees. In Arizona, the monthly fee for each machine is $15.

    Interestingly, the charge to the states for administering the benefits is per person, so the more individuals who receive benefits, the more the banks make.

    http://www.g-a-i.org/wp-conten.....-FINAL.pdf

  133. 133
    chauncey1186 says:

    @Kropadope: erm…how about “have other priorities than posting of random blogs.

  134. 134
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @chauncey1186: Why?

    ETA: This needs to be here.

  135. 135
    rda909 says:

    @Betty Cracker: I clearly and consistently explained my frustration with the pro-Snowdenwald/anti-Obama “progressives” and how that hurts in elections we’re trying to win against Republicans. Not sure why you’re taking that to mean I don’t think anyone should ever question President Barack Hussein Obama.

    I’ve had several people tell me to my face, while at their doors trying to get them to commit to making sure they show up at the polls for Democrats since they’ve voted for Democrats before, that they won’t now because of how much President Obama has “let them down” and so on on issues such as “spying” and whatever other media-created scandal is hot at the time, when they have nice cars in decent neighborhoods, and just so happen to be about 99.9% caucasian.

    We’re battling a literal takeover of America right now by fascists, in the purest sense of the word, that’s been in process for generations, and the amount of time people have spent debating NSA/Snowdenwald is disgusting to me in light of stories such as Shaneshas. Shanesha comes first over the Snowdenwald – that is my message. You have problem with that?

  136. 136
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    Never mind.

  137. 137
    Kropadope says:

    @Aleta: Clever game they have there. Keep wages down, exploit the people who need benefits because wages are low, use the profits to lobby Congress for policies that help keep wages down.

  138. 138
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @rda909: I have a problem with you dragging this issue into something completely unrelated. There was absolutely no reason, other than trolling, to bring either Greenwald or Snowden into this discussion.

  139. 139
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Shit. The link didn’t take. Here it is.

  140. 140
    Betty Cracker says:

    @rda909: I have a problem with the constant insinuation that if you’re concerned about NSA overreach, you must be a white, libertarian elitist who doesn’t give a shit about people of color or the poor.

    I have a problem with the idea that it’s impermissible to address more than one problem at a time, and hence calling for reform of the NSA is tantamount to snatching the food out of Shanesha’s children’s mouths.

  141. 141
    rda909 says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Yes, me and my fellow O-bots are the ones who created the Snowdenwald and made sure it became the dominate issue on “progressive” blogs. We actually did not want to talk about people such as Shanesha and her children, and all the amazing things President Obama has done already to help the truly poor such as Shanesha, in the face of the most obstructionist Congress in history, and we’d rather have endless debates about the .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance a NSA intern might accidentally see that Cole called his mom some afternoon.

    And I agree with you completely, there was “absolutely no reason” that the Ron Paul-supporting Snowdenwald should’ve been brought into the political discussion of today when we’re on the precipice of complete fascist takeover of America, and that it has served to “divide and conquer” normally Democratic voters, such as debates on this thread. Yes, we O-bots are the ones who created this dynamic. Makes perfect sense, and I have no doubt you will keep “having a problem” with us O-bots, rather than the Republican-enabling Snowdenwald. Meanwhile, at least go donate to the fundraiser someone set up for Shanesha so that YOU can at least feel better for having done so, and us O-bots, following President Obama’s leadership, will go out and continue to win elections so that we can help the thousands of Shaneshas out there.

  142. 142
    Betty Cracker says:

    @rda909: Good god. Listen to yourself. You really are barking up the wrong fucking tree.

  143. 143
    Tripod says:

    Now I been lookin’ for a job but it’s hard to find
    Down here it’s just winners and losers, and don’t get caught on the wrong side of that line..

  144. 144
    AxelFoley says:

    @TooManyJens:

    @mclaren: Have you not gone and fucked yourself yet?

    HAHAHAHAHA

    This kinda caught me off guard. Glad I wasn’t drinking near my monitor when I read it.

    And yes, mclaren, please proceed to fuck yourself.

  145. 145
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @rda909: Who brought GG/Snowden into this discussion? You are sounding, right now, like the people who shout “Benghazi!” about everything. Whatever valid point you might have had was lost when on your first post on this thread.

  146. 146
    Gex says:

    @Fair Economist: This. Every year there’s a story about some middle-class parent that leaves an infant in their car and it dies in the summer heat around here. And almost always we see the same thing we see when an child kills themselves with a parent’s handgun. “Gee, they’ve already been through so much, what purpose would it serve to charge them for violating the laws that they broke?”

    But you have to be white and it helps to be middle class to get this kind of consideration. Otherwise you are fucked.

  147. 147
    rda909 says:

    @Betty Cracker: Yes, certainly seems that I’m barking up the wrong tree. Apparently you think there’s been an equitable amount of time and energy spent on the Snowdenwald “issues,” as has been spent on helping “the poor” and other accomplishments of the Obama Administration, and the tangible results they have delivered for low-income folks. I’m arguing that the balance has been way, way off, and that the Snowdenwald has received inordinate amounts of time, and support for that matter around “progressive” blogs. With what he has already accomplished, President Obama and Democrats should have over-the-top enthusiastic support for these upcoming midterms, as they should’ve in 2010, but as we know, President Obama did not receive from so many so-called progressives. I’m seeing similar patterns now, and the Snowdenwald schtick is a big reason why. Hence my distaste for seeing it so often here and other supposedly liberal blogs. But I’ll just go back out there door-to-door and try to win my local elections, and leave the online progressives to their endless debates.

  148. 148
    rda909 says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: The irony is that I don’t think the Snowdenwald deserves any discussion at all in liberal circles, and that is the point of my frustration. Their motives are clearly suspect, and the fact that the freakin dude is living in Putin’s Russia while all this Ukrainian nonsense started out of the blue just adds fuel to the fire. And look at one of the few countries in the U.N. today to vote supporting Putin’s invasion…Greenwald’s Brazil!

    I brought it up today out frustration from the months and months of near constant debate about these almost non-issues for almost all Americans, at the expense of issues such as the ones that help Shanesha, and that is what makes me feel like the motives are insincere. The look I see in Shanesha’s photo is one I see often personally in my line of work, and that is why I feel anyone who claims to be liberal or progressive should be thrilled to work for President Obama and Democrats for this coming November. Unfortunately, so many are distracted by NSA/Snowdenwald propaganda, which happens to match exactly to what Ron Paul says. Hopefully it’s clearer for you now.

  149. 149
    AxelFoley says:

    @Kropadope:

    Damn, Kropadope, I see I misjudged you the other day. Please accept my humble apologies as you continue to lay the smackdown on chauncey.

  150. 150
    AxelFoley says:

    @rda909:

    And I’m gonna co-sign on everything rda has said. This is why lots of minorities are pissed at so-called progressives. Many of them have no issues whatsoever with putting their personal info on Facebook or Google (both of which gather data on folks), but raise a ruckus about the NSA, while minorities have caught hell forever.

  151. 151
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @rda909: Sorry, at this point, I think you brought it up to be an asshole. It sounded like “BENGHAZI” to me. When you bring a topic into something completely unrelated, you tend to sound like a crank. It does not bring people to your side.*

    *BTW the vast fucking majority of us posting here are already on your side. Why be an ass to us?

  152. 152
    kc says:

    @rda909:

    he irony is that I don’t think the Snowdenwald deserves any discussion at all in

    There’s some bonus irony in your relentless attempts to derail a discussion about the issues you pretend to care about.

  153. 153
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @AxelFoley: Really? You want to bring GG/Snowden into this? Let’s talk about the horrific racial and sexist issues that come up in this story.

  154. 154
    John Cole says:

    I just blacklisted Chauncey because it is 2:30, I feel like total shit and this head and chest cold is killing me, and I do not give a fuck about my blog principles regarding letting people just make asses of themselves rather than banning them, because I think what they shames them and not the blog.

    However, that jackass has been nothing but toxic all night. Also too, Robitussin.

  155. 155
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @John Cole: For what it is worth and as a person who was arguing with that person all night, I think she may have been drunk and posting info she did not want to be long term public knowledge.

    Point being: Don’t ban. Just make the stupid go away. If possible.

  156. 156
    rda909 says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: “Let’s talk about the horrific racial and sexist issues that come up in this story.”

    Oh please do. That’s my whole point, and then of course what each of us can do about it, which is make sure President Obama gets a Congress he can work with and help fix some of these problems. President Obama was already making clear progress on surveillance and foreign policy issues long before Eddie decided to lie his way into a job specifically to steal classified information and move to Putin’s Russia with that information. So I think The President will continue that work while at the same time continuing to fix those “racial and sexist” issues at the same time. Yes, let’s do that!

  157. 157
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @rda909: You are a bit sad.

  158. 158
    Chris says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I’m always in fan of the troll banhammer, but… oy. Now that you mention it, deleting the stuff with Chaucer’s personal information would probably be quite wise.

  159. 159
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Chris: I am not a fan of banning, but that person, I think, made disclosures that she probably would regret. No ban but a disappearance of her comments… It might make sense

  160. 160
    SectarianSofa says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    probably so, whether or not they are legit. But “chauncy” sure gave off a lot of “hi-I’m-a-troll” signals.

  161. 161
    Cervantes says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I have a problem with the constant insinuation that if you’re concerned about NSA overreach, you must be a white, libertarian elitist who doesn’t give a shit about people of color or the poor.

    Several kinds of stupid — which is precisely why telling them so does not even give them pause.

    No exit.

  162. 162
    Marc says:

    @rda909:

    The irony is that I don’t think the Snowdenwald deserves any discussion at all in liberal circles, and that is the point of my frustration.

    Then you kind of shot yourself in the foot on that one.

  163. 163

    Thanks John for spotlighting this. I donated and will keep her in my prayers. What a wretched situation to be in and I feel for her and for all those who have to make this kind of choice.

    I’m such a tree-hugger that I cannot understand and wrap my mind around those who can see this kind of thing go on and not want to help. (Meaning, those in “power” who have the ability to make better choices but don’t because $$$$$$$$$$$$ for them and that’s all that matters.)

    And to get woo on y’all here: we truly are all one. Why can’t we understand that and know that the more we help each other, the more we help ourselves and those who come after us.

    Sigh.

    Again, thanks for this post.

  164. 164
    Betty Cracker says:

    @rda909:

    Apparently you think there’s been an equitable amount of time and energy spent on the Snowdenwald “issues,” as has been spent on helping “the poor” and other accomplishments of the Obama Administration, and the tangible results they have delivered for low-income folks.

    Nope. I’m saying it’s dumb and creepy for self-appointed Keepers of the Legacy to troll fellow Democrats — who have also worked their asses off to raise money and GOTV, BTW — for not clapping hard enough.

    By hosting a well-trafficked blog that has raised considerable sums for the Obama campaign and served as a action center for Congressional phone campaigns to support Democratic initiatives, Cole has likely done more to further the Obama administration’s agenda than 50 OFA door knockers (of which I am one, BTW).

    I’m just suggesting that, in light of this, maybe the cadre of self-proclaimed Obots who show up to piss on every other thread (on any topic!) with their dude-bro bullshit should perhaps give it a fucking rest.

  165. 165
    currants says:

    @Fair Economist: Being brown in AZ is maybe what it takes, you think?

  166. 166
    currants says:

    @Kropadope: pawnshops, check cashing storefronts, same biz.

  167. 167
    Paul in KY says:

    @mclaren: THat was one hell of a screed. Kudos!

  168. 168
    Paul in KY says:

    @Linda: Cause she was white & it was the 60s when no one cared about anyone or thing being left in a car for a period of time.

  169. 169
    Paul in KY says:

    @rda909: Pres. Obama is a great person, but he’s not perfect & can’t know/police all the operations of a vast security state that was created before he took office.

  170. 170
    Paul in KY says:

    @Betty Cracker: Hear, hear!

  171. 171
    Paul in KY says:

    @rda909: You just tell them that they are being short-sighted & that if they think the Republicans wouldn’t spy on them a Hell of a lot more, then they truly are fools.

  172. 172
    rda909 says:

    @Betty Cracker: “Cole has likely done more to further the Obama administration’s agenda than 50 OFA door knockers”

    I often like what you write here, but this statement is delusional. Seriously. And I’ll be looking forward then to all this online activism here starting for the midterms, since there’s so much at stake especially for the thousands of Shaneshas of the world, and that’ll be starting when, exactly?

    We’re up against one of the greatest threats to the U.S. Constitution in many generations right now, and the majority of time here and so many other online progressive places has been spent promoting a lying traitor and his Brazilian sidekick, and sneering condescension toward the most liberal President in many generations, and proclamations of “holding my nose” to vote for President Obama or other Democrats. These kind of themes have been allowed to flourish here and so many other supposedly liberal places, and I’d argue hurt the cause much more than any supposed positives that happen here with “action center” activities (I honestly can’t think of any that you would be talking about that have happened here…but there’s massive amounts about Eddie Snowden). This is not how to win against the likes of the Koch Bros and Sheldon Adelson and their major media enablers.

  173. 173
    Cervantes says:

    @rda909:

    I often like what you write here, but this statement is delusional.

    I don’t know about “delusional” but the statement did catch my eye. Let’s just put it down to hyperbole.

    In any event, you go on to say:

    And I’ll be looking forward then to all this online activism here starting for the midterms, since there’s so much at stake especially for the thousands of Shaneshas of the world, and that’ll be starting when, exactly?

    Good question, needs discussion.

    But then you say:

    the majority of time here and so many other online progressive places has been spent promoting a lying traitor and his Brazilian sidekick, and sneering condescension toward the most liberal President in many generations, and proclamations of “holding my nose” to vote for President Obama or other Democrats

    Re those first five words, it would be too easy to use the word “delusional,” so I won’t. Should we call it “hyperbole” also?

    These kind of themes have been allowed to flourish here and so many other supposedly liberal places, and I’d argue hurt the cause much more than any supposed positives that happen here with “action center” activities (I honestly can’t think of any that you would be talking about that have happened here…but there’s massive amounts about Eddie Snowden). This is not how to win against the likes of the Koch Bros and Sheldon Adelson and their major media enablers.

    OK, please make the argument.

  174. 174
    shelly says:

    On that donation page, even though they’ve more than raised the amount for her bail, it says the authorities are holding her till the 31st. The fuck?

  175. 175
    Cervantes says:

    @John Cole:

    I just blacklisted Chauncey

    Terrible idea, in my opinion, but your prerogative, obviously.

  176. 176
    Betty Cracker says:

    @rda909: Do me a favor: Google “balloon-juice.com actblue” and “balloon-juice phone bank” then come back and tell me Cole hasn’t been instrumental in raising tens of thousands of dollars and promoting significant midterm and general election GOTV and issues advocacy efforts. Go ahead, I’ll wait.

    Kay has been absolutely heroic in her efforts to shine a spotlight on voter suppression and the gutting of public education. Google her while you’re at it. Just last week I made a humble foray into midterm GOTV issues my own self and got some good ideas I plan to bring up with my fellow real life volunteers.

    If all you see on this site is Snowald, I’m afraid you’re the one who is delusional. I think your heart is in the right place — I’ve seen you around for ages and you seem like a good person. But seriously, you’re pissing on allies for no good reason.

  177. 177
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Cervantes:

    Cole has always had a pretty strict policy against posting personal addresses and telephone numbers of non-politicians, even when the person posting claims that they’re theirs. So it was pretty obvious that Chauncey was going to get banned as soon as she did that.

  178. 178
    mtiffany says:

    @Cervantes:

    OK, please make the argument.

    What? “Because I said so” isn’t convincing enough for you? Don’t you know who rda909 is?

  179. 179
    chopper says:

    @Cervantes:

    I don’t know about “delusional” but the statement did catch my eye. Let’s just put it down to hyperbole.

    at least. there’s something about the blog world that convinces people that blogs have far more reach and influence than they actually do and what happens there is better/more important than what happens in ‘meatspace’.

    i think rda’s attempt to derail the whole thing is stupid but i do understand his/her frustration. it isn’t as much a matter of getting people to ‘clap louder’, half the time it feels like you’re trying to get them to clap at all. i always compare internet progressives to ‘jewish mothers’, but that really is the best metaphor i think.

  180. 180
    Splitting Image says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’ve got no use for Snowden or Greenwald as wannabe celebrities, but damned if I’m gonna give up my right to disagree with the POTUS and say so in a public forum, and it’s bullshit to imply that doing so empowers Republicans and promotes the oppression of poor people. You find Snowald fans irritating: fair enough. I find people who infest those same threads to question the intentions and loyalty of good Democrats almost as creepy as the W cultists post-9/11. Fuck all that noise.

    Fuck yourself.

    Four different front-pagers on this blog followed the NSA storyline, and every single one of you made sure to mention Greenwald every time you posted on the subject. Pretending to be surprised that Greenwald’s motives became the topic of every single thread is as disingenuous as you get.

  181. 181
    Betty Cracker says:

    @chopper: I don’t for a second think that “blogs have far more reach and influence than they actually do and what happens there is better/more important than what happens in ‘meatspace’” — not for one second. But when rd claims there’s been no activism here except around “Snowald” and accuses Cole of undermining Democrats and not giving a shit about elections or poor people, he or she is just dead wrong, and there’s evidence to the contrary right where I said to look.

  182. 182
    Cervantes says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Cole has always had a pretty strict policy against posting personal addresses and telephone numbers of non-politicians, even when the person posting claims that they’re theirs. So it was pretty obvious that Chauncey was going to get banned as soon as she did that.

    Thanks for the explanation. I don’t see the “personal addresses and telephone numbers of non-politicians.” (Whose were they, by the way? In general terms, I mean.) I assume those comments were removed in the night, before I looked in this morning.

    All I did see this morning was this:

    I just blacklisted Chauncey because it is 2:30, I feel like total shit and this head and chest cold is killing me, and I do not give a fuck about my blog principles regarding letting people just make asses of themselves rather than banning them, because I think what they shames them and not the blog. However, that jackass has been nothing but toxic all night.

    People can alternately trumpet and abandon their principles — I understand that, it happens — but if toxicity and being a “jackass” are the criteria … well, that’s a terrible idea, in my opinion.

    But returning to your explanation, yes, I agree, violating people’s privacy for no good reason (recognize this refrain?) is a terrible idea as well. If someone does this repeatedly and you need to punish them somehow, OK; whereas if it’s the first time you see them do it, then, why not just remove the privacy violations? As with Ms. Taylor’s actions, why not give them a break?

  183. 183
    chopper says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    i don’t disagree about activism, but your statement about OFA volunteers came off as bloggeritis.

  184. 184
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Splitting Image: Oh get bent, you hysterical loon.

  185. 185
    Cervantes says:

    @chopper:

    there’s something about the blog world that convinces people that blogs have far more reach and influence than they actually do and what happens there is better/more important than what happens in ‘meatspace’.

    That may be true sometimes (leaving aside whether it’s true in this case).

    Fifty OfA volunteers can reach a lot of people and affect a lot of votes directly on a human level — and that’s the ultimate goal. Whereas raising money for TV spots, etc., is not a goal in itself; it only matters if it affects voting behavior the way we want it to (and this can’t always be guaranteed).

  186. 186
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Cervantes:

    It looks like Cole deleted the posts where Chauncey put her address and telephone numbers (cell and home) but left the ones where she dared people to call her (me at #129 and Omnes at #131). That’s the jackassery that Cole was referring to — he’s willing to let people make idiotic comments, but he’s not willing to let them post personal information beyond email addresses, which seems like a fair line to draw.

  187. 187
    chopper says:

    @Cervantes:

    Fifty OfA volunteers can reach a lot of people and affect a lot of votes directly on a human level

    and register a fuck of a lot of voters, something a small political blog doesn’t do.

  188. 188
    Cervantes says:

    @Betty Cracker: Technically, loons can’t be hysterical.

  189. 189
    Cervantes says:

    @chopper:

    and register a fuck of a lot of voters

    Yes; et cetera.

  190. 190
    chopper says:

    @Cervantes:

    okay, ted mosby.

  191. 191
    Cervantes says:

    @chopper: Who’s that? What’s your point? I haven’t the foggiest.

  192. 192
    chopper says:

    @Cervantes:

    he’s the main character in How I Met Your Mother. he has this annoying habit where he can’t agree with anything someone says, but has to correct it in some fashion. ‘well, technically…’.

  193. 193
    Cervantes says:

    @chopper: Ah, thanks. Never heard of it.

    I’m assuming you did not get my joke (re Betty Cracker‘s comment).

  194. 194
    chopper says:

    @Cervantes:

    oh, Jesus (rubs bridge of nose).

  195. 195
    Betty Cracker says:

    @chopper & @Cervantes: I don’t have time to comb through the archives and find all the fundraising pages and phone banking threads, but there have been a fuck-ton of them.

    I’m not disparaging OFA volunteers — I’m one of them. But this site averages well over a million visits a month (which isn’t completely negligible, even if it’s the same 200 people!) and has raised a shit-ton of money for Democratic candidates and causes. I think it’s fair to say it likely has more reach and has produced more results than my little band of OFA peeps in Bumblefuck, FL anyway.

    But to return to the original point: Cole and Balloon Juice are not the enemy. Y’all can parse my assertion all you want, but that’s still true.

  196. 196
    Cervantes says:

    @Betty Cracker: I know.

    Remember my “leaving aside whether [that assertion is] true in this case?” There was a reason!

    Thanks.

    @chopper: OK.

  197. 197
    Howlin Wolfe says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: It’s appalling either as snark or meant sincerely. Imposing a sarcastic dig at his strawman Snowden supporters on a post about this subject is pure assholery.

  198. 198
    Cervantes says:

    @Howlin Wolfe:

    Imposing a sarcastic dig at his strawman Snowden supporters on a post about this subject is pure assholery.

    Mark my words: they will not learn.

  199. 199
    kindness says:

    I just checked the fund set up for this woman and it’s up to $26 K. Let us hope she gets most of it and puts it to good use.

  200. 200
    rda909 says:

    @Betty Cracker: “But seriously, you’re pissing on allies for no good reason.”

    That’s been my exact point all along with the “hold my nose and vote for Obummer” crowd while the Snodenwald can seem to do no wrong, even while choosing to live in Putin’s Russia and Brazil, which was one of the few countries in the U.N. that just voted to support Putin’s invasion plans.

    President Obama is not the problem, so it’s been frustrating to see so many progressives “pissing” on the person who has done more than anyone in ages to help people across the world, and promoting someone instead who lied to steal classified info and run off to Putin’s Russia. Of course, much of this anti-Obama progressivism existed long before anyone heard of Eddie Snowden so this dynamic has been building for years. But anyway, thanks for your OFA work, since that’s how elections are actually won. Please double those efforts through the rest of this year with the midterms coming fast. We should all be doing that for people such as Shanesha.

  201. 201
    Aleta says:

    How come cities and towns, or their leaders, aren’t charged with child abuse when children are homeless? I mean, since “corporations are people” and cities are municipal corporations.

  202. 202
    chopper says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    i know the blog raised some good cash. probably enough to cover a short ad buy for a medium market, which is nice. as to phone banking from the blog though, the OFA volunteers were doing that shit every weekend.

    i’m not trying to disparage the work the blog did, i’m just pointing out that these volunteers worked for the whole fucking election season, every week. you can’t compare raising money on a blog to their work.

  203. 203
    Howlin Wolfe says:

    @Aleta: I like!!

  204. 204
    Cervantes says:

    @rda909:

    Brazil, which was one of the few countries in the U.N. that just voted to support Putin’s invasion plans.

    Are you sure? I think you’ll find, rather, that Brazil abstained. Here’s an excerpt from a UN report:

    ANTONIO DE AGUIAR PATRIOTA ( Brazil) said the international community must reaffirm its strong resolve to urgently find a peaceful solution, emphasizing that his country’s concerns reflected its close bilateral ties and strategic partnership with Ukraine. Noting that Brazil hosted one of the largest Ukrainian-descendant communities outside Europe, he expressed deep regret over the deaths in Kyiv. The United Nations Charter must be respected under all circumstances, as should international law, he stressed, urging all parties to engage in constructive talks, while commending the Secretary-General’s initiatives to de-escalate tensions, restore calm and promote dialogue.

    Given all this verbiage, you might well ask why the Brazilian government abstained, why it did not vote for the (non-binding) resolution “Calling Upon States Not To Recognize Changes In Status Of Crimea Region.”

    What I don’t think you can say accurately is that Brazil “just voted to support Putin’s invasion plans.”

  205. 205
    John Cole says:

    @chopper: Is this your first time at this website? Jesus, I phone banked, walked miles, and knocked on thousands of doors in WV. That was on top of the maybe 150k we raised for Obama. And there were dozens more commenters here who did the same.

    Who pissed in everyone’s cereal yesterday? Tractarian, Chauncey, you, Cervantes- has everyone lost their shit?

  206. 206
    Keith G says:

    Wow. Sorry I was at work an missed all this. Errr. Maybe not.

    I do think it is rather amazing at how successful rda9000 was at totally erasing the topic of the most unfortunate Ms. Shanesha Taylor and her children from the flow of this thread. Over 12 hours of posts devoted to the off topic bickering (most of the last 174 entries).

    That is a breathtaking achievement. rda, you go!!

  207. 207
    rda909 says:

    @Keith G: Considering my entire point on this thread, and most others I ever comment on nowadays, is to keep the focus on stories such as Shaneshas, instead of letting Ron Paul-pawns such as Eddie Snowden derail the work President Obama and Democrats have been doing for people such as Shanesha, your comment is rather pointless.

    The fact that so many people get so butthurt when someone would have the temerity to question their one true saviour, Eddie Snowden, just proves my point. Many, many more amounts of time and energy have been spent around here and similar places over the last year about the Snowdenwald than have been spent on the struggles of people such as Shanesha. This is what I have a problem with and am often pointing out to people. If a few people here and there start realizing this whenever I point out this madness, then it’s worth for me to spend the time on it.

  208. 208
    Keith G says:

    @rda909: Your passion has blinded you to the impact of your actions.

  209. 209
    chopper says:

    @John Cole:

    I didn’t realize y’all were counting your commenters’ volunteer work (I guess including mine) as belonging to the blog. I volunteered just to help out.

    Who pissed in everyone’s cereal yesterday

    LOL, this coming from you?

    You phone banked and walked as a volunteer. A lot. So did many people. So did I. My walking door to door wasn’t the blog’s work, john, it was volunteer work for OFA.

    My point is that the blog did (raise money etc) isn’t

  210. 210
    Cervantes says:

    @John Cole:

    Who pissed in everyone’s cereal yesterday? Tractarian, Chauncey, you, Cervantes- has everyone lost their shit?

    You have something to say to me? Be specific, because right now I have not the vaguest inkling what you’re on about.

  211. 211
    chopper says:

    @John Cole:

    BTW, is disagreeing with Betty on one thing ‘losing your shit’ now? comparable to the nasty garbage tractarian coughed up? That’s fucked up, cole.

  212. 212
    Cervantes says:

    @Keith G:

    the most unfortunate Ms. Shanesha Taylor and her children

    See here for an update.

  213. 213
    chopper says:

    stupid fucking mobile version.

  214. 214
    chopper says:

    @rda909:

    Considering my entire point on this thread, and most others I ever comment on nowadays, is to keep the focus on stories such as Shaneshas

    you did a bang-up fucking job at that.

  215. 215
  216. 216
    John Cole says:

    @Cervantes: I couldn’t figure out why you were so gungho to defend Chauncey’s idiotic behavior.

    BTW- I unbanned her. She just needed to cool it for a bit.

  217. 217
    chopper says:

    @John Cole:

    it is a day that ends in ‘day’.

  218. 218
    Cervantes says:

    @John Cole:

    I couldn’t figure out why you were so gungho to defend Chauncey’s idiotic behavior.

    OK. No problem. Show me something I said that you disagreed with or found unreasonable. (Thanks.)

  219. 219
    chopper says:

    in all honesty, i merely agreed that betty saying ‘John Cole did more for O than 50 OFA dudes’ was a bit of hyperbole. i would figure your legs would hurt like a motherfucker doing that much canvassing but maybe you’re a real long-distance walker.

  220. 220
    TooManyJens says:

    @rda909:

    Considering my entire point on this thread, and most others I ever comment on nowadays, is to keep the focus on stories such as Shaneshas

    Fine. Then say that on threads that are actually about the topics you consider to be derails. But why would you pick a fight on a thread where people were actually talking about what you want them to fucking talk about? That’s every bit as logical as those unskippable warnings about piracy at the beginning of every DVD. (Motherfuckers, I’m only seeing your message because I paid for this movie!)

  221. 221
    rda909 says:

    @Keith G: Exactly what I say about the Snowdenwald fetishists. Sure wish they’d stop that and try to win these elections coming up.

  222. 222
    rda909 says:

    @TooManyJens: Why? Because after years now of trying to get online progressives to understand that President Obama is not the enemy, and in fact is doing amazing things to help people just like Shanesha especially in the face of the most obstructionist Congress and media in history, it rings hollow to me when these same people act as if they care so much about the Shaneshas of the world.

    There are thousands of Shanesha stories happening every day in America, and nothing would help solve these problems more than getting President Obama a House and Senate that will work with him.

    Millions of low-income families are getting healthcare now, yet this same debate was happening with the “Kill the Bill-ers!” 130,000 or so troops have been brought home from Iraq/Afghan with more each month, yet this same debate has been happening with DRONEZ and Obummer killing innocent American children!!! President Obama was curtailing NSA activities before anyone heard of the lying traitor Eddie Snowden, yet now so many online progressives sneer at him and suggest he’s like J. Edgar Hoover. And on and on…If people want to truly help Shanesha and others like her, they’d rally around the most liberal president in generations and help him make more and more structural changes to prevent tragedies like hers from happening as much as possible, and until “progressives” stop jumping on any media-created anti-Obama bandwagon that gets trotted out, I will continue question the motivations behind those same people who claim to care about someone such as Shanesha.

  223. 223
    Cervantes says:

    @rda909: Berating others until they talk about only the things on your Approved list must keep you very busy.

    No wonder I’m still waiting for you to argue the proposition you said you would argue!

Comments are closed.