Barebacking is the New Responsible

Here’s some Grade-A mansplaining from  Alaska State Senator Pete Kelly, who thinks the way to battle Fetal Alcohol Syndrome is to distribute pregnancy tests in bars:

When Hopkins asked the senator if he would support free birth control in bars he answered “no.” Because the thinking is a little opposite. This assumes that if you know (you are pregnant) you’ll act responsibly. Birth control is for people who don’t necessarily want to act responsibly.

“I’m not going to tell them what to do. Or help them do it. That’s their business. But if we have a pregnancy because someone just doesn’t know, that’s probably a way we can help.”

Yes. The senator thinks women who use birth control are doing so to be irresponsible. How is that even possible? Controlling your fertility is the most fiscally and morally responsible thing you can do as a woman.

Kelly doubled down defining publicly funded birth control as “a level of social engineering that we don’t want to get into.”

Do you think Scalia will sound better or worse than Kelly in today’s Hobby Lobby arguments?

(via Benen)

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192 replies
  1. 1
    evolved beyond the fist mistermix says:

    Here’s the whole quote:

    Q. Would you support doing the same thing with birth control? Making free birth control available in the bars?

    A. No. Because the thinking is a little opposite.

    This assumes that if you know (you are pregnant) you’ll act responsibly. Birth control is for people who don’t necessarily want to act responsibly.

    I’m not going to tell them what to do. Or help them do it. That’s their business. But if we have a pregnancy because someone just doesn’t know, that’s probably a way we can help.

    Q. But isn’t the act of using birth control, in itself, acting responsibly?

    A. Maybe, maybe not.

    …That’s about a level of social engineering that we don’t want to get into. All we want to do is make sure people are informed. They’ll make the right decision.

    Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2014/03/20/.....rylink=cpy

  2. 2
    Violet says:

    The senator thinks women who use birth control are doing so to be irresponsible. How is that even possible? Controlling your fertility is the most fiscally and morally responsible thing you can do as a woman.

    It’s possible because “being irresponsible” = “having unapproved sex”. Unapproved sex = any sex not in a heterosexual marriage between one man and one woman, unless it’s the man horndogging around and then it’s just boys being boys. But the women are sluts.

    Anyone who doesn’t understand that is just not paying attention. It’s not possible to apply logic to the situation.

  3. 3
    kc says:

    “Birth control is for people who don’t necessarily want to act responsibly.”

    Wait, what? Really? REALLY??

  4. 4
    Paul in KY says:

    @Violet: My head is hurting tyring to figure his quotes out, but I think you got it. If you are ‘responsible’, you wouldn’t be in a bar anyway & thus if your mother is in a bar, she’s irresponsible & if you get fetal alcohol syndrome, guess you should have picked a ‘respoinsible’ mother.

    Jeezus

  5. 5
    aimai says:

    I saw this this morning over at TPM and my jaw hit the floor. Of course I think AK probably has an enormous drinking problem for both men and women (isolation, cold, alienation, genetic predisposition) and fetal alcohol syndrome is probably a big problem as a result. But this focus on woman as a carrier, a walking womb, is just bizarre. How about urging men to wear condoms if they are planning to let themselves be picked up in bars? How about encouraging free prenatal care and free sex ed for teenagers? Oh…what’s the point. The only thing worse than the kinds of legislators that Republicans seem to be willing to vote for is having no legislators at all, and I’m not even sure about that.

  6. 6
    NotMax says:

    It’s the 21st century. Surely good ol’ ‘murkin know-how can whip up a batch of demure electronic chastity monitor belts to be administered by the state.

    (Do I have to point out it is snark?)

  7. 7
    Roger Moore says:

    Do you think Scalia will sound better or worse than Kelly in today’s Hobby Lobby arguments?

    Worse. He’ll be even more self-righteous and be incredibly hostile and condescending.

  8. 8
    Gypsy Howell says:

    The misogyny is really ramping up. Can you even imagine what it’s going to be like if Hillary becomes president? And, unlike the unleashing of their racism during the Obama presidency, these pieces of shit don’t even feel the need to dogwhistle.

    It will be breathtaking.

  9. 9
    Gin & Tonic says:

    But the framing is already in place. Half-listening to the Today show this morning while exercising, the lead-off to a quickie story about the Hobby Lobby case said “free birth control.” It’s not free, for heaven’s sake, unless Hobby Lobby pays 100% of their employees’ health insurance premiums – which I’m too lazy to look up, but really doubt. May as well talk about free knee replacements or something.

  10. 10
    Zam says:

    @Gypsy Howell: I’m of the opinion that a Hilary Clinton presidency could very well break the republican party. They really can’t afford to have women vote along the same lines as say black people, but they also cannot seem to stop their grassroots patriots from “telling it like it is” so they’re pretty much fucked.

  11. 11
    PurpleGirl says:

    It seems to me that “free birth control/contraception” in bars would mean condoms. Or maybe foam and vaginal barriers. After all diaphrams need to be fitted by a doctor and prescribed and bc pills also need to be prescribed based on individual chemistry considerations (more or less of the hormones). So much ignorance abounds in this area.

  12. 12
    CONGRATULATIONS! says:

    Just for the hell of it, I like to know how many women this guy has beaten in his life.

    More than one, certainly.

  13. 13
    Elizabelle says:

    Even in his district, I suspect some conservative women’s (and men’s) jaws are hitting the floor too.

    Maybe he’ll get retired next election. A lot of people put up with their Republican nut jobs until they realize said nut jobs can affect them, or their daughters and sons, personally.

  14. 14
    Cervantes says:

    Paul in KY: You may have missed his actual proposals:

    — Flood Alaska bars and restaurants with publicly funded pregnancy tests. The tests would be available for free, with the effectiveness of the plan studied by university researchers.

    — Spend millions on an FASD awareness blitz.

    — Recruit a network of citizen “helpers” who could counsel women in their towns and villages who are drinking while pregnant. The volunteers might refer women who can’t stop drinking for treatment at regional prematernal homes.

    aimai:

    fetal alcohol syndrome is probably a big problem as a result.

    Yes. Some details are here.

  15. 15
    tokyo expat says:

    IANAL, but how did it even get this far? How can Hobby Lobby argue that their religious fee fees take precedence over mine? I’ve been reading the arguments at various blogs and I don’t see how the SC can rule in HL’s favor and not open up a huge can of worms with this on several fronts.

  16. 16
    Ash Can says:

    If you’re of the opinion that women need to be kept chained up out in the yard with the dogs, this guy makes perfect sense.

  17. 17
    Anne says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    It’s not free, for heaven’s sake, unless Hobby Lobby pays 100% of their employees’ health insurance premiums

    And not even then. If HL fully covers the insurance premiums, that coverage is still part of the employees’ compensation. Which means it’s not free at all, it’s a benefit provided in lieu (presumably) of higher wages.

  18. 18
    GxB says:

    Why doesn’t he also mandate that all pre-menopausal women only be served Budweiser & Clamato Chelada(tm) to assure any potential fetus (fetii?) is exposed to some essential vitamins too? Just in case ya-know… That way he can get some kickbacks from InBev who sure can’t sell that crap otherwise.

    The mind boggles, and still these assholes easily stroll to re-election time-after-time in many parts of the country.

  19. 19
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Anne: Good point, thanks.

  20. 20
    dmsilev says:

    @Anne: Was just about to write the exact same thing. What HL is proposing is equivalent to them saying “you can’t spend any of your wages at $PLACE_WE_DONT_LIKE”.

  21. 21
    Ben Cisco says:

    Do you think Scalia will sound better or worse than Kelly in today’s Hobby Lobby arguments?

    This was rhetorical, right?

  22. 22
    Cacti says:

    I wonder how Scalia is going to square the circle of supporting Hobby Lobby with his decision in Employment Division v. Smith.

  23. 23
    Cervantes says:

    @GxB:

    Why doesn’t he also mandate that […]

    He isn’t talking about mandating anything:

    Q. The idea is to make pregnancy tests available for free?

    A. You grab one. Literally, you can go into the bathroom at the bar and test. So if you’re drinking, you’re out at the big birthday celebration and you’re like, ‘Gee, I wonder if I …?’ You should be able to go in the bathroom and there’s that plastic, Plexiglas bowl in there and that’s part of the public relations campaign too. Is you’re going to have some kind of card on there with a message. … With the consent of the other senators, I’m going to put some money in the budget to fund these things.

    (From the same interview linked above.)

  24. 24

    So we should make the women folk take pregnancy tests before they drink, but giving out contraceptives would just encourage them to be sluts. And if they want to exercise their right to abortion, we should make it as inconvenient and humiliating as humanly possible, but once the kid is born, we should make sure he doesn’t get reliant on 3 meals a day by cutting government funding for food stamps, and do our damnest to make sure his education is run by for profit corporate raiders and vulture capitalists, and force him into massive debt if he wants a shot at college (but we can’t do anything to rein in for-profit unaccredited colleges who might rip him off and not provide any education worth a dime), or ship him off to a war zone for 4-8 years so he can earn slightly better terms on his college debt.

    And if he needs any sort of health care at any time, he should be at the mercy of the for-profit health insurance industry who should have the right to cut him off for any of the arcane reasons spelled out in the terms and conditions of his policy written by well-paid lawyers who put plenty of loopholes in.

    So, love the fetus, hate the person it becomes. Got it.

  25. 25
    geg6 says:

    @Violet:

    Yes. This is what it’s all about and will always be about. Icky women and their icky parts doing things unapproved by Pete Kelly and his friends. Slutty slutty slutty sluts slutting around without permission.

  26. 26
    Cervantes says:

    @Comrade Dread:

    So we should make the women folk take pregnancy tests before they drink

    That’s not what he’s saying.

    Did you notice his remarks about birth control, by the way?

  27. 27
    Cacti says:

    @tokyo expat:

    IANAL, but how did it even get this far? How can Hobby Lobby argue that their religious fee fees take precedence over mine? I’ve been reading the arguments at various blogs and I don’t see how the SC can rule in HL’s favor and not open up a huge can of worms with this on several fronts.

    SCOTUS already held in 1990 that neutral laws of general applicability do not violate the free exercise clause of the first amendment, even if they have the incidental effect of interfering with certain religious practices. The issue in that case was anti-drug legislation interfering with the sacramental use of peyote.

    The majority opinion was authored by Scalia. But since he’s become a troll, I’ve little doubt he sides with Hobby Lobby.

    I predict this one goes 6-3 or 7-2 against Hobby Lobby, with Scalia, Thomas, and maybe Alito as the dissenters.

  28. 28
    geg6 says:

    @Cacti:

    Exactly. I’m waiting with bated breath to see how he squares that particularly thorny circle.

  29. 29
    Roger Moore says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    It’s not free, for heaven’s sake, unless Hobby Lobby pays 100% of their employees’ health insurance premiums

    It’s not free unless Hobby Lobby gives it to people who have no connection to the company. Their employees work for their health insurance, and Hobby Lobby shouldn’t have any more say over what prescriptions their employees get with their health insurance than they have over what their employees can buy with their paychecks.

  30. 30
    burnspbesq says:

    @Cacti:

    The same way he “squared” his vote on the Commerce Clause issue in NFIB with his concurrence in Raich.

  31. 31
    Gypsy Howell says:

    OK, having now gone and read the actual interview, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that he spoke (very) poorly. In a subsequent interview, he elaborated that birth control might become part of the longer term solution for FAS, but he thought an immediate issue was women drinking heavily in the first few weeks before they knew they were pregnant (and when much of the fetal damage is done), and suggested that if they did know, most women would choose not to drink.

  32. 32
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    @tokyo expat:

    …and I don’t see how the SC can rule in HL’s favor and not open up a huge can of worms with this on several fronts.

    The possibility of opening a huge can of worms sure as hell didn’t influence SCOTUS in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission.. If I was to bet, I’d bet that the court will grant corporations another of those rights formerly reserved for individuals.

  33. 33
    Belafon says:

    @Gypsy Howell: If everything else were equal among Clinton and her Republican challenger (which they are not, she is light-years better), this would be enough to make me support her. Not because she’s would be the first female president, but because the right needs to keep going ballistic. We won’t get as much legislation passed, but this has to be brought out into the open.

  34. 34
    Roger Moore says:

    @tokyo expat:

    I don’t see how the SC can rule in HL’s favor and not open up a huge can of worms with this on several fronts.

    Some people want those cans of worms opened.

  35. 35
    🍀 Martin says:

    Birth control is for people who don’t necessarily want to act responsibly.

    Fucking birth control, how does it work?!

  36. 36
    MomSense says:

    @Gypsy Howell:

    I don’t actually think the misogyny is ramping up. I think we are just hearing about it more from media sources. Just about every damned day of my life I have been exposed to some sexist bullshit or another. The same is probably true for most women.

  37. 37
    PurpleGirl says:

    So if I get the article correctly, Sen. Kelly wants a program of education about FASD. Hopkins — a reporter — is the one who brought up birth control and having it available in bars/restaurants. I think my points (comment 11) about birth control still stand but Hopkins is the ignorant idiot. Sen. Kelly’s ideas need some refining but I can’t argue with his basic aim.

  38. 38
    Citizen Alan says:

    @Cacti:

    I wonder how Scalia is going to square the circle of supporting Hobby Lobby with his decision in Employment Division v. Smith.

    His opinion will say that the holding is “limited to the present circumstances, for the problem of [undermining Obama at every turn] generally presents many complexities.”

  39. 39
    Roger Moore says:

    @Cacti:

    I wonder how Scalia is going to square the circle of supporting Hobby Lobby with his decision in Employment Division v. Smith.

    Because SHUT UP, THAT’S WHY! Actually, he’ll rely on the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which is there to provide a fig leaf for exactly this kind of decision.

  40. 40
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    It’s not free, for heaven’s sake, unless Hobby Lobby pays 100% of their employees’ health insurance premiums –

    It is part of a woman’s compensation package, therefor earned. If Hobby Lobby doesn’t like making Health insurance a part of their compensation package, they are free to not offer it.

  41. 41
    Cacti says:

    Kennedy was also part of the majority opinion in Employment Division v. Smith, and less likely to reverse himself for the purpose of trolling the President.

  42. 42
    burnspbesq says:

    @Roger Moore:

    The companies are also free to accommodate their directors’ religious beliefs by not providing health insurance to their employees. If that disadvantages them in the labor market, too bad.

  43. 43
    GxB says:

    @Cacti: Logical consistency is for the little people.

  44. 44
    Jado says:

    @tokyo expat:

    Since when do they concern themselves with the “huge can of worms” issue? Citizens United proved they have no ability or inclination to think things thru.

    I look forward to reading the analysis of Scalia’s tap dance for today’s ruling; I fully expect him to essentially contradict himself from the Employment Division v Smith case, because in that one the plaintiffs with the religious objection were individuals and in this one the religious objection comes from a CORPORATION, which is more equal than people nowadays.

    We need a new amendment giving corporations precedent over people in the rights department – all of these piddling little SC cases could be lumped together and we can finally see where we are in the grand scheme of things. And then start the revolution

  45. 45
    C.V. Danes says:

    Yes, because the cost and anguish of an accidental pregnancy is so much cheaper than just putting free condoms in bars…

  46. 46
    burnspbesq says:

    @Jado:

    And then start the revolution

    Riiiiiiiight.

  47. 47
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Obviously enuf, @Anne: beat me to it.

  48. 48
    Gypsy Howell says:

    @PurpleGirl:

    I agree. I think this story is a lot of kerfuffle about something taken out of context. He spoke poorly (maybe even misspoke?) when presented with the birth control question, but I think his overall goal is not a bad one.

  49. 49
    El Cid says:

    GOP Outreach!

  50. 50
    Belafon says:

    @Cacti: Consistency is not a Scalia strong point. The ACA and it’s defense in the SCOTUS was designed around Scalia’s prior government-authority rulings and he blew every one of those arguments off.

  51. 51
    geg6 says:

    @MomSense:

    Oh yes, you are correct. The amount of misogyny never changes. What’s been new in the last couple of years, at least as far as I can see, is the open, public intensity of it has come out of the closet. It’s not cool to be openly racist anymore, so hating on the women with a white hot hate is always the next step. Haters gotta hate and they prefer to not have to hide or camouflage it.

  52. 52
    Cacti says:

    @C.V. Danes:

    Yes, because the cost and anguish of an accidental pregnancy is so much cheaper than just putting free condoms in bars…

    But it’s never been about costs to the individual or the public. It’s about teaching the slutty sluts a lesson for slutting around.

  53. 53
    Gypsy Howell says:

    @C.V. Danes:

    Again, if you read the story, he’s not talking about preventing pregnancies from occurring after a night of drinking at the bar, he’s talking about women who are ALREADY pregnant but don’t know it yet, who go into a bar and drink heavily in the first few weeks of pregnancy. He’s trying to alleviate that situation by offering women free on-the-spot pregnancy tests IF THEY CHOOSE to take one.

  54. 54
    Karen in GA says:

    So if you’re drinking, you’re out at the big birthday celebration and you’re like, ‘Gee, I wonder if I …?’

    Yes. That’s exactly what goes on in our little woman brains. If only our bodies had built-in ways of saying “Hey, might be pregnant here,” we wouldn’t need men to think up ways to remind us to check.

    They’re not that expensive. They’re $1.50, $2 per pregnancy test when you get them in mass quantities, and then distribute them. We’re probably going to have to contract with a non profit of some kind to distribute them and service them in the bars and restaurants. Public places where people go.

    If only there were places where women could go to check whether they’re pregnant other than a bar bathroom. You know, like a home or a doctor’s office or something. (What’s this guy’s view of Planned Parenthood, or do I even need to ask?)

  55. 55
    bryan says:

    @tokyo expat: It’s a simple five step argument:
    1. Corporations are people, my friend.
    2. Money is the same as freedom of speech.
    3. Freedom of speech is a constitutional right.
    4. Corporations have more money than most people.
    5. Ergo, Corporations have more rights than most people. QED.
    The only question is whether a majority of Supreme Court justices can spot any holes in this argument.

  56. 56
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Cacti: Since the ACA decision, I have given up on the idea that Scalia will even for the fig leaf of even pretending to have a consistent judicial philosophy beyond being a results driven, hard right hack.

  57. 57
    Punchy says:

    I don’t see how the SC can rule in HL’s favor and not open up a huge can of worms with this on several fronts.

    Watch closely, because they will rule for HoLo and the worms will be everywhere. Scalia will need to reverse everything he said in that 1990 decision, which will be funny yet sad to see.

    SCOTUS will green-light the ignoring or non-applicability of laws based on nebulous and transient “religous grounds” and soon the Rule of Law is toast.

  58. 58
    Citizen Alan says:

    @Gypsy Howell:

    He’s trying to alleviate that situation by offering women free on-the-spot pregnancy tests IF THEY CHOOSE to take one.

    I’m not a woman, I know, but personally my mind recoils at the thought of peeing on a test strip in a nasty bathroom at some honky-tonk bar in Moosejaw Alaska.

  59. 59
    Cervantes says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: You still clung to that fiction after Bush v. Gore?

  60. 60
    raven says:

    Former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld slammed President Barack Obama on Monday, saying “a trained ape” would have better foreign policy skills.

    During an appearance on Fox News’ “On the Record with Greta van Susteren,” Rumsfeld criticized the White House for not securing a status of forces agreement with Afghanistan.

    “We have status of forces agreements probably with 100, 125 countries in the world,” Rumsfeld said. “This administration, the White House, and the State Department, have failed to get a status of forces agreement. A trained ape could get a status of forces agreement. It doesn’t take a genius.”

  61. 61
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    @bryan:

    Noway. Clarence Thomas will leap to his feet and deliver an impassioned speech stating that it was never the intent of the Founders to exempt churches from the laws of the land.

    Gotta’ go now; I just ran out of crack.

  62. 62
    Cervantes says:

    @raven: Contemptible. Not worth a response.

  63. 63
    Karen in GA says:

    @Citizen Alan:

    I’m not a woman, I know, but personally my mind recoils at the thought of peeing on a test strip in a nasty bathroom at some honky-tonk bar in Moosejaw Alaska.

    I’m a woman. I agree with you 100%.

  64. 64
    MomSense says:

    @geg6:

    I remember in 2010 seeing all the ads that were running about “candidate x votes with Nancy Pelosi, Barack Obama and Barney Frank 99% of the time” and I would always think that is the hater nightmare right there. I think it is more than just hate. I think there is a sense that those of us who used to be lesser and subordinates are now in competition and taking their jobs, status, etc.

  65. 65
    Cervantes says:

    @Citizen Alan: Does your mind recoil at the thought of fetal alcohol syndrome?

  66. 66
    NotMax says:

    Put a dent in the unemployment rate by forcing the hiring of women’s room attendants trained to wield vaginal probes?

    “Ladies Night used to be much more lively here.”

  67. 67
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Cervantes: He’s not even pretending anymore.

  68. 68
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    @raven:

    And thus Errol Morris’ “The Unknown Known” becomes bullshit.

  69. 69
    EconWatcher says:

    @raven:

    Possibly accidental racial slur aside, I would really stay quiet and keep a low profile if I were he. Does Rumsfeld really want another public airing of his own record?

    I mean, how bad do you have to be, to be fired by George W. Bush for incompetence? It’s like being kicked out of Guns ‘N Roses for your irresponsbile lifestyle.

    But yes, by all means, Rumsfeld. Let’s talk about foreign-policy competence.

  70. 70
    Belafon says:

    @Cervantes: The women who aren’t worried about what alcohol does to their unborn child aren’t going to take the test anyway. Those that would be worried are listening to their bodies. As for that time period between when a woman gets pregnant and when she figures it out, I have to ask you this: How did we manage to survive as a species before we had all these tests?

  71. 71
    raven says:

    @EconWatcher: Accidental my ass.

  72. 72
    NotMax says:

    @raven

    Lawdy, lawdy, lawdy. (*cough* Iraq *cough*) The man is a disgrace to even the trappings of decency.

    Memory is not what it once was, but fairly certain those are not “100, 125 countries” we’ve militarily invaded and occupied for over a decade.

    (Not to mention that a limited SOFA is still an open question so far as the government post-Karzai goes.)

  73. 73
    satby says:

    @Zam: Amen to that. I know reliable R voting women who would walk away forever from the Rs if they unleash as much venom against Hillary for being a woman as they do against the President for being black. And I say bring it on, because I think the asskicking the Rs would get would be awesome and enjoyable to witness.

  74. 74
    Roger Moore says:

    @geg6:

    What’s been new in the last couple of years, at least as far as I can see, is the open, public intensity of it has come out of the closet.

    But some of that is because there’s also been more public pushback against sexism. If sexism were completely accepted, the sexists wouldn’t have to make a big deal about it. Now that there’s a real suggestion that sexism isn’t OK, the most backward, unrepentant sexists feel a need to be as loud and blatant as possible to show they aren’t willing to accept the new rules. The same sexism is there, but it’s getting noisier because there’s actual conflict about it.

  75. 75

    Some men can be so fucking stupid.

    I would hate to be married to these idiots.

  76. 76
    EconWatcher says:

    @satby:

    I’ve said it before, but I’ll say it again: If we nominate a liberal woman in 2016, the resulting freakout will give us a blowout like Lyndon Johnson’s in 1964. And yes–bring it on.

  77. 77
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @raven: saw that.

  78. 78
    Cervantes says:

    @Belafon:

    The women who aren’t worried about what alcohol does to their unborn child aren’t going to take the test anyway. Those that would be worried are listening to their bodies. As for that time period between when a woman gets pregnant and when she figures it out, I have to ask you this: How did we manage to survive as a species before we had all these tests?

    I don’t know. How did we survive before we had binge drinking?

    Here you can find a report on FAS in Alaska. As for the rest of it, I suggest you contact Sen. Kelly and tell him you think his proposal is unnecessary.

  79. 79
    NotMax says:

    @Roger Moore

    the most backward, unrepentant sexists feel a need to be as loud and blatant as possible

    “Some of my best friends are pen*s challenged.”

    Followed in 24 hours by:

    “My comments were taken entirely out of context.”

    /preview of 2016?

  80. 80
    Cervantes says:

    @Southern Beale: Hey, did you check into that question about Frank Luntz being the source of the White House pastry chef fracas?

  81. 81
    Belafon says:

    @Cervantes: Yeah, because binge drinking is a 21st century only problem.

  82. 82
    IowaOldLady says:

    Rumsfeld is another one whose interviews should be confined to asking why he’s not in jail.

  83. 83
    Gin & Tonic says:

    Question to those more familiar with the law or the Hobby Lobby arguments. If I’m a dude who works there and gets health insurance from them, will that health insurance pay for my vasectomy?

  84. 84
    Cacti says:

    @IowaOldLady:

    Rumsfeld is another one whose interviews should be confined to asking why he’s not in jail.

    This.

    It’s amazing to me that anyone from the Bush cabal is considered to have a worthwhile opinion on any matter related to foreign policy.

  85. 85
    Cervantes says:

    @Belafon: Sorry, what’s your point? FAS predates the turn of the century and so no one should try to address it now? Or do you have better ideas than Kelly’s? (The latter would hardly surprise me but so far you’re not sharing.)

  86. 86
    chopper says:

    @tokyo expat:

    IANAL

    another effective form of birth control.

  87. 87
    JustRuss says:

    @raven: Why the hell would we even want a Status of Forces agreement with Afghanistan? I wish them well, but the place is a black hole, if Obama’s getting us out with no strings then he’s a lot smarter than Rumsfield. As if there was any doubt.

  88. 88
    NotMax says:

    @raven

    Don’t forget this Rumsfeld statement from September 2002: “There’s no debate in the world as to whether they have those weapons. We all know that. A trained ape knows that.” Source

  89. 89
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @raven: This guy really needs to go the way of Jodl and Keitel. Seriously.

  90. 90
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @raven: Yup. Not accidental and not especially subtle.

  91. 91
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Cacti:

    It’s amazing to me that anyone from the Bush cabal is considered to have a worthwhile opinion on any matter related to foreign policy.

    Another item for the charge sheet when the Village is arraigned.

  92. 92
    CONGRATULATIONS! says:

    Why the hell would we even want a Status of Forces agreement with Afghanistan?

    @JustRuss: They had a hell of a proposal. Basically, we pay for every expense the country incurs, do all the dirty law enforcement work, never shoot back, and be legally on the hook for anything we fuck up.

    I say, we don’t need two Alabamas, we already have the one.

  93. 93
    Roger Moore says:

    @JustRuss:

    Why the hell would we even want a Status of Forces agreement with Afghanistan?

    So we can keep troops there indefinitely and pretend it hasn’t been a complete debacle. That will let Donald Rumsfeld et. al. pretend they didn’t ruin whatever chances we might have had for a favorable outcome in Afghanistan by diverting troops to the disaster in Iraq.

  94. 94
    Comrade Scrutinizer says:

    @satby: That’s not how it will work, though. The thugs will pull out their running dogs like Bachmann, Palin, et al, to be stalking horses. The venom will be directed toward Hilary as a godless liberal, Benghazi, wife of the Clenis, and all their other Shibboleths. Sure, it will be about sexism, just like the main objection to BO is that he’s black. But it will be coming out the mouths of thug women, so the narrative will be about balance and fairness, and POV.

  95. 95
    Belafon says:

    @Cervantes: I don’t buy the sudden concern for FAS, period. Everything else falls from that point.

  96. 96
    boatboy_srq says:

    @kc: Yes. Because Teh Secks is icky. And like Violet said.

    These volk think they are entitled to police every bedroom, every back seat, and every single other place where two (or more) consenting adults can get down’n’dirty. They’re the reason we’ve had to go through Griswold, Loving, Roe, Bowers and Lawrence. If they had their way, the Bureau for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice would be cabinet-level. Because male Xtian blowhards know what’s best for every single woman, for every single man not entirely hetero, and of course for Teh Brown Peeps.

    Remind me again how Big Gubmint getting all in our bidness is an unGawdly IslamoFascoSoshulist phenomenon.

  97. 97
    Cervantes says:

    @Roger Moore: I think you understand these people very well.

    (Suspiciously well!)

  98. 98
    Calouste says:

    The best solution for this problem, considering Alaska’s characteristics, would be to promise free booze to anyone getting a vasectomy.

  99. 99
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @raven:

    TRAINED APE??

    Did he really compare the President of the United States to a trained fucking APE???

    Every time I think I’m outraged out, some outrageous outrager outrages me again.

  100. 100
    Roger Moore says:

    @Comrade Scrutinizer:
    That’s a great plan, but it isn’t going to work any better than their attempts to be subtle in attacking Obama. There may be some Republicans who can resist breaking out all the worst sexist insults when talking about Hillary, but not enough to make a difference in the way the party is perceived. Enough important Republicans simply won’t be able to help themselves that the overall picture will be clear to anyone with open eyes and/or ears.

  101. 101
    CONGRATULATIONS! says:

    The best solution for this problem, considering Alaska’s characteristics, would be to promise free booze to anyone getting a vasectomy.

    @Calouste: You’ve been there, it would seem. That is some obvious and yet world class thinking right there. Shit, you could have 90% of the male population sterilized within two weeks if you had the infrastructure to do the surgery.

  102. 102
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Gin & Tonic: IIRC, yes.

  103. 103
    Roger Moore says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Did he really compare the President of the United States to a trained fucking APE???

    He meant to say a trained monkey but realized it might be considered insulting.

  104. 104
    Cervantes says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: “Trained ape” is a bit of a thing with him. He’s used the expression before. Trained apes were wreaking havoc all over the comic books when he was a boy.

    Still, I find it contemptible that anyone today thinks to ask him serious questions and publish the answers.

  105. 105
    danielx says:

    Do you think Scalia will sound better or worse than Kelly in today’s Hobby Lobby arguments?

    Depends. Better as a joke if one thinks this is a laughing matter (I don’t), worse from a logic standpoint. But yeah, I suspect Fat Tony will be all over the “irresponsible sluts making irresponsible choices and why should the employer have to pay for that” theme. As for those women taking the pill for reasons other than birth control only (14%), such as controlling endometriosis, fuck ’em – they should have been born male instead of being born as Satan’s harlots.

    Antonin Scalia: one of the finest legal minds of the fourteenth century.

  106. 106
    IowaOldLady says:

    Serious question: Are there condom machines in bars? The last time I saw one in a bathroom was at the university where I taught, and that was the ladies.

  107. 107
    Cervantes says:

    @Belafon:

    I don’t buy the sudden concern for FAS, period. Everything else falls from that point.

    Well, that’s one way to look at the world.

    But consider the following (February 7, 2014):

    A new public health campaign to eradicate fetal alcohol syndrome is in the works.

    For nearly a year, a group made up of lawmakers, mental health advocates, and Native leaders have been working on a strategy to bring down the number of babies born with the disorder. The syndrome can cause birth defects, nervous system damage, and psychological problems.

    Does that sound OK to you? Do you “buy” it?

    Now here’s the next line of that article:

    The public-private partnership is called “Empowering Hope,” and on Friday, Sen. Pete Kelly called on his fellow lawmakers to support the initiative.

    Sounds absolutely terrible now, does it?

  108. 108
    boatboy_srq says:

    @🍀 Martin: REMINDER: this is the same subset that thinks Teh Wimmins only take the pill when they’re about to have Teh Secks – so of course businesses will go broke paying for all those prescriptions Teh Slutz will be popping like TicTacs.

  109. 109
    danielx says:

    @raven:

    Donald Rumsfeld dissing anybody’s diplomatic competence and skills. Yeah, that’s rich. What Donald Rumsfeld knows about diplomacy, as opposed to bombing brown people, you could fit on a single sheet of toilet paper.

    Like anyone gives two toots on a flute for Rumsfeld’s opinion on anything at this point. What was left of his credibility, and there wasn’t much, went down the drain on November 7, 2006.

  110. 110
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Cervantes: Given that this guy seems to think that preventing pregnancy is an “irresponsible” approach, I’m not cutting the asshole so much as a picometer of slack.

  111. 111
    Comrade Scrutinizer says:

    @Roger Moore: And this failure on their part is why we have overwhelming Democratic majorities in all the State legislatures and in Congress, and its why were are so successful at getting our legislative programs passed.

    Open eyes and open ears are all well and good, but when the media is complicit in turning on the fog machines and white noise generators, they don’t count for much. Racism and sexism are part of the substructure of our society, and they aren’t going away just because the thugs are a little more explicit about it.

  112. 112
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @aimai: At any rate, drinking the night you get pregnant does NOT cause fetal alcohol syndrome.

    It’s a couple of months later that the risk factor comes in. And moderate drinking may not cause FAS. It’s still not entirely clear.

    The one thing you need WHEN you get pregnant to prevent birth defects is FOLIC ACID.

    You’re welcome.

  113. 113
    boatboy_srq says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’m surprised you’re surprised. In their Gud Buk, Gawd gave (white) Man dominion over the Earth and all the “animals.” We shouldn’t expect much else.

  114. 114
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Gypsy Howell:

    The misogyny is really ramping up. Can you even imagine what it’s going to be like if Hillary becomes president?

    I used to think that but now I’m convinced it’s any Democrat. Whatever. Bring it on.

  115. 115
    Cervantes says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Yes, cutting people slack is not your thing, I have noticed. But meanwhile, look:

    Under fire for his remarks on birth control in this Daily News Q&A, Sen. Pete Kelly told colleagues today that his FASD prevention think tank might one day embrace contraception as a prevention tool but is instead focused on free pregnancy tests for now.

    Progress.

    Or you can ride him out on a tumbrel and we can start all over with the next yahoo. That could work.

  116. 116
    T_ Malone says:

    How many planned parenthood offices are there in Alaska? How freely available is Plan B? Since Women get drunk in places other than bars why not have free tests in places that sell booze say like supermarkets? If a woman in a bar decides at the bar to take the test – what makes you think she would carry the fetus to term? Empowering hope I assume also means empowering women with knowledge and access to healthcare rather than pissing on a stick at her local.

  117. 117
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Roger Moore: von Rumsfailed uses “trained ape” because he made the mistake of using “trained monkey” around the Librarian of Unseen University…once.

    Oook.

  118. 118
    currants says:

    @MomSense: YES.

  119. 119
    Woodrowfan says:

    @Gypsy Howell: and sickening. I still think the RW will turn violent…

  120. 120
    bemused says:

    This makes me want to grind my teeth. I’m so sick of these ignorant male know-it-alls messing in people’s personal lives. They should go join all the bitchy old male retired busybodies having coffee at local cafes every morning who have equally stupid, totally unworkable and mean-spirited answers to everything. Sen Kelly and his crowd would fit right in.

  121. 121
    Cacti says:

    @boatboy_srq:

    REMINDER: this is the same subset that thinks Teh Wimmins only take the pill when they’re about to have Teh Secks – so of course businesses will go broke paying for all those prescriptions Teh Slutz will be popping like TicTacs.

    When Pigboy said that, I took it as more evidence that his current and former wives are beards.

    You would think that an allegedly hetero male, who’s on his fourth marriage with no offspring, would have at least a rudimentary idea of how different methods of birth control work.

  122. 122
    Woodrowfan says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: nice ref. Not to derail, but have you read the newest Discworld book yet? It’s not bad–better than “Snuff” but not as good as “Thud” IMHO.

  123. 123
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Another Holocene Human: Okay, maybe I overstated that, just checked the Mayo Clinic website. Still, the focus on the night of conception is way off the mark. I’m no teratologist. Still, I think the face comes after the notochord, and the notochord gets fucked up right off the bat if you’re deficient in folic acid. So it depends on your definition of “don’t even know you’re pregnant”.

  124. 124
    CONGRATULATIONS! says:

    I still think the RW will turn violent

    @Woodrowfan: One of the last subjects you’re really not allowed to talk about outside of the fringe is the non-debatable FACT that the overwhelming amount of political violence in this nation, from its founding until right now, has come from the right wing.

    I am stunned that we have not had an Oklahoma City sized incident yet.

  125. 125
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @raven:

    Former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld slammed President Barack Obama on Monday, saying “a trained ape” would have better foreign policy skills.

    During an appearance on Fox News’ “On the Record with Greta van Susteren,” Rumsfeld criticized the White House for not securing a status of forces agreement with Afghanistan.

    “We have status of forces agreements probably with 100, 125 countries in the world,” Rumsfeld said. “This administration, the White House, and the State Department, have failed to get a status of forces agreement. A trained ape could get a status of forces agreement. It doesn’t take a genius.”

    War criminal says WHAT? And they didn’t cut his mike?

    First of all, the guy who says “any monkey could do your job” can’t do your job himself and is full of it. Is Rumsfeld a preening narcissist who is full of shit? Creo que si.

    Secondly, no. HELL, no. Does make you wonder again about that dismissive “Army you have” comment. What WAS wrong with the Army we had, Rummy? Too many blahs in it?

  126. 126
    JPL says:

    Hobby Lobby used to cover birth control but now they have decided they don’t want to because some folk might use the IUD or morning after birth. What bothers me about the case is that they should not decide what method you choose to use or not. Also they are not scientists but rather just a store that sells cheap imported stuff.

  127. 127
    boatboy_srq says:

    @Cacti: You would.

    Sadly, too often that’s not the case.

  128. 128
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Another Holocene Human: The idea, I guess, is that those sluts hanging out in bars may have gotten pregnant weeks before due to their slutty ways, so the tests will tell them to stop guzzling rye because they’ve got a bun in the oven.

    As it’s “irresponsible” to use contraception, you know.

  129. 129
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @EconWatcher: Calling the president an ape is not a slip of the tongue. When Democratic wags called Bush a chimp that was no slip of the tongue either… but at least that wasn’t a racial slur. God, this stuff is so exhausting.

    I used to think those chimp faces were funny. Hell, it was either laugh or cry back then. The invasion of Afghanistan was a massive mistake, and the government didn’t listen when we flooded the streets over Iraq. The tax cuts were a time bomb, and so was NCLB.

    Oh well.

  130. 130
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Another Holocene Human: And latinos. Plus a smattering of gooks. That Shinseki guy, for example.

  131. 131
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Even making allowances for Greta Van Susteren being neck-and-neck with Hannity and the Fox Morning Zoo Croo as the dumbest chickens in Uncle Rupert’s coop, that is outrageous. I guess we should be grateful the loathsome old troll hasn’t been invited on CBS like Cheney and Condi.

  132. 132
    CONGRATULATIONS! says:

    Hobby Lobby used to cover birth control but now they have decided they don’t want to because THERE’S A BLACK MAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND IT’S CALLED THE WHITE HOUSE FOR A REASON

    @JPL: fixed that for you

  133. 133
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Cacti: You would think that an allegedly hetero male, who’s on his fourth marriage with no offspring, would have at least a rudimentary idea of how different methods of birth control work.

    You forgot viagra-fueled sex tourist.

  134. 134
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Woodrowfan: Nope, not that far along yet. Some friends have introduced me to Pratchett, and I’ve only read 10 or so books so far. Currently reading Reaper Man.

  135. 135
    Cervantes says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: He’s a funny guy. A good read. Not serious but entertaining.

  136. 136
    Paul in KY says:

    @Gypsy Howell: But the good thing will be that Hillary is President! A Democrat will have held the office for at least 12 years!

  137. 137
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Death is fucking awesome.

  138. 138
    Paul in KY says:

    @Cacti: Probably the same way Alexander untied the Gordian Knot.

  139. 139
    smith says:

    From the interview:

    “But isn’t the act of using birth control in itself acting responsibly?” the interviewer asked.

    “Maybe, maybe not,” Kelly replied. “That’s a level of social engineering we don’t want to get into. Down the road, we haven’t had this discussion yet, as a community or as a legislature, we haven’t had the discussion about involuntary commitment. That may be part of it in the future, that’s not what we’re doing right now. But ultimately, you have to ask yourself if someone is damning their child to a lifetime of mental problems and physical problems as well and it’s gonna end up costing the costing the state, isn’t that time that we have to say, okay, isn’t there some level of involuntary commitment that should happen?”

    Emphasis added. Providing birth control is unacceptable social engineering, but involuntary commitment might be OK. As laudable as prevention of FAS might be, there’s a lot more going on in this cracker’s mind.

  140. 140
    boatboy_srq says:

    @CONGRATULATIONS!: TABMITWH explains so much Reichwing nutsery.

  141. 141
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: You mean Death is FUCKING AWESOME.

  142. 142
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Cervantes: Have you heard of light boxes for Seasonal Affective Disorder? Speaking of which, can anyone give me a recommend for a good one?

  143. 143
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @NotMax: Projection. Someone as incompetent as Rummy assumes everyone else is faking it just like him. Btw, he gets by on being superaggressive and shouting other people down. Captain Jerk.

  144. 144
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Ha! I sit corrected.

  145. 145
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Cervantes: Yeah, good entertaining reads. I love the way he takes the tropes of the genre (and lots of other tropes, too) and grills them to a savory perfection.

  146. 146
    WereBear says:

    @Another Holocene Human: I use this one:

    NatureBright SunTouch Plus Light and Ion Therapy Lamp

    Since November 2013. I am using it to “reset” my cortisol for my sleeping problems, but you can check the comments for how it works with SAD.

    I’m happy! And if you do buy it, use the Amazon link up top for Balloon Juice…

  147. 147
    Cervantes says:

    @Another Holocene Human: Can’t help you there, but good luck with it.

  148. 148
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @boatboy_srq: I think you’d like Season 2 of Murdoch Mysteries*, when Julia dumps Jesuit-boy William for being anti-abortion. “So it was for convenience?” he says, that is, to save your career. “I don’t want your pity. I don’t want your mercy.” It was awesome.

    *live action steampunk from Canada, been very good overall but has some off episodes, for example the Jew episode failed all over itself–fuck you, Canucks–too bad, too, they followed up next episode with some stuff on First Nations people that was way more sensitive and respectful

  149. 149
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Every time I think I’m outraged out, some outrageous outrager outrages me again.

    I literally can’t go to bed some nights. Idk, I don’t know how to pay less attention. I mean, those people (religious right, “tax freedom” nuts, gun nuts) are coming for me, I can’t not be aware of it. And then, they come for my friends, too. For the crime of being Black in America.

    Why does the media keep giving these motherfuckers a megaphone? If they don’t know how to behave in a civilized manner they should be on the outside looking in.

  150. 150
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Another Holocene Human: in the Bush years, you would always read that Rumsfeld owed his influence to being a “skilled bureaucratic knife fighter” (words to that effect) and a shrewd player of inside politics. I always wondered what the hell that meant. As I read accounts of the inner workings of the Bush regime, it seems that he was quite simply a supercilious dickhead who did whatever he wanted and got passive-aggressive when called on it, knowing the ultimately Darth Cheney would have his back with President Junior– for a long time, anyway. There’s a part of me that could almost, almost, appreciate the way he taunted and tormented the equally incompetent and only slightly less arrogant Condi Rice, but he almost makes her sympathetic by comparison.

    If our morally and intellectually bankrupt political-media establishment had a shred of decency, the man’s last public statement would have been, “You go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had”.

  151. 151
    Paul in KY says:

    @Gypsy Howell: I would agree with the free pregnancy tests being available where alcohol is being drunk.

  152. 152
    Paul in KY says:

    @Punchy: I will really be surprised if HL wins their case.

  153. 153
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @CONGRATULATIONS!: Seconded.

  154. 154
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @WereBear: Thanks! Just wondering, do cortisol issues have any connection to adrenals going so crazy you think your neck is bleeding out, or is that just another, unrelated hormonal fuckup?

  155. 155
    Paul in KY says:

    @Karen in GA: Maybe that’s the only place the poor woman can have some privacy & if it is free, she doesn’t have to ask POS husband/boyfriend for the money to buy one (and maybe get slapped around for asking).

  156. 156
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Paul in KY: I hope you’re right, between Roberts, ScAlito, Thomas and the increasingly grumpy Kennedy and the apparently wishy-washy Breyer, I am not optimistic. It’s depressing and embarrassing that this case is even being heard.

  157. 157
    ericblair says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    in the Bush years, you would always read that Rumsfeld owed his influence to being a “skilled bureaucratic knife fighter” (words to that effect) and a shrewd player of inside politics. I always wondered what the hell that meant.

    A bully with some powerful bully friends.

  158. 158
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    There’s a part of me that could almost, almost, appreciate the way he taunted and tormented the equally incompetent and only slightly less arrogant Condi Rice, but he almost makes her sympathetic by comparison.

    Oh man, me three. I think we’ve read the same articles. And “only slightly less arrogant” is so, so true.

    As for the army comment, he should have been finished. But in a sane admin, he wouldn’t have been in charge of a box of toothpicks.

  159. 159
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Paul in KY: It’s not as if we could provide DOCTORS or NURSE PRACTITIONERS at CLINICS for WOMEN….

  160. 160
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Another Holocene Human:

    Why does the media keep giving these motherfuckers a megaphone?

    They generate ratings/newsstand sales/page clicks. By being outrageous.

    Only thing that matters to our media. Totally Ferengized.

  161. 161
    WereBear says:

    @Another Holocene Human: Adrenals on top of the kidneys, thyroid in the neck.

    And yes, glands messed up = messed up lots of things.

    This site might help:

    Stop the Thyroid Madness

    Mostly about thyroid, but I found good adrenal info there too.

  162. 162
    WereBear says:

    To get back to the topic, this proposal is simply stupid. Women who drink a lot in bars don’t want to get pregnant, by definition. Women who want to be pregnant plan for it.

    Long-term birth control solves this problem, not pregnancy tests handed out like lollies.

  163. 163
    Paul in KY says:

    @Belafon: Uh, for many thousands of years, we did not have ‘alcohol’. Grok on that…

  164. 164
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: I doubt CBS cashed in with their back-to-back interviews with Cheney and Willard on FTN, and I doubt even ‘wingers are tuning in to hear Condi snivel with breathless concern that Obama is feckless. If they wanted to make money, they air reruns of their sitcoms on Sunday morning.

  165. 165
  166. 166
    Cervantes says:

    @Calouste:

    The best solution for this problem, considering Alaska’s characteristics, would be to promise free booze to anyone getting a vasectomy.

    i wouldn’t know what’s best in the situation, but that’s a fine idea to bring up for them to consider.

  167. 167
    Glidwrith says:

    @smith: And to add to my entry above – South Carolina already jails pregnant women for drinking:

    http://www.advocatesforpregnan.....hitner.htm

    http://womensenews.org/story/h.....zG_n8vn9Fo

    Nice, that last article shows that South Carolina isn’t the only state that has done this, Alaska just hasn’t caught up to them.

    Also considering Alaska is the meth capital, how long before they go after the ladies for meth use while pregnant?

  168. 168
    Paul in KY says:

    @Another Holocene Human: It is because they say outrageous things that they are on TV. That won’t make you feel any better..

  169. 169
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @Another Holocene Human: I’m assuming you mean full spectrum lamps – Verilux always has a sale of some kind. It’s the brand my p-doc recommends – and uses himself.

  170. 170
    Paul in KY says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Agree that it is a WTF moment that it even got this far, but I’m prety sure at least 5 will just not give corporations (mere creatures of law, as John Marshall opined), the same legal rights as living people.

    Allowing those corporations to determine (via their religious prejudices) the actual life decisions of employees who don’t belong tothe same religion as the owners of said corporation.

    If they do win, religious freedom in America is essentially dead (IMO).

  171. 171
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @Another Holocene Human: Cortisol levels and adrenal issues are directly related. You will likely need to consult an endocrinologist to get a good handle on that. I’m not an MD and I don’t even play one on the internet (mostly).

  172. 172
    Paul in KY says:

    @Another Holocene Human: I know!!! However, maybe this hypothetical woman trapped in crazy relationship with crazy person cannot get away from him to go to one of those, but can go in womens bathroom without the asshole following her in there.

  173. 173
    Paul in KY says:

    @WereBear: I want birth control (short & long term) handed out like lollies (for free), but this is better than nothing (IMO).

  174. 174
    Paul in KY says:

    @Glidwrith: They should go after a woman who uses meth while preggers. Plus any creep who makes the stuff.

  175. 175
    Calouste says:

    @CONGRATULATIONS!:

    I’ve not been to Alaska, but I have been to Australia, which is the same but 100 degrees warmer.

  176. 176
    Cervantes says:

    @Glidwrith: Thanks.

    From your first link:

    Groups whose members suffer disproportionate poverty, such as Native Americans and African Americans, are especially prone to this disorder. In the Yukon and Northwestern areas of Canada, the rate for FAS and partial FAS has been estimated at 46/1000 for Native children compared to 0.4/1000 for non-Native children, a 1000-fold difference (Asante and Nelms-Matzke, 1985). In the USA, the rate of FAS among low income populations is 2.29/1000 compared to 0.26/1000, for middle- and high-income populations (Abel, 1995). Despite the empirical evidence, grass roots organizations, such as the National Organization on Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (NOFAS) continue to espouse the view that FAS is a threat to all pregnancies.

    Yes, it may be true that national organizations hype their own missions. This behavior is not unknown — but condemning it does not do much for impoverished populations in Alaska who (by your own reference) are “especially prone to this disorder.”

    Your first article concludes:

    A small proportion of women of child-bearing age, especially those who are most disadvantaged by poverty, bear the greatest burden of risk for FAS. If we are going to reduce the incidence of FAS, we need first to know who those women are, as well as what puts them at risk. If we hope to reduce the incidence of this birth defect, we must reconstruct the problem not as a moral panic, but as a moral imperative to find and help those women most at risk of adverse outcomes.

    But these are exactly the people Kelly and his colleagues are talking about.

    (That was your first link. Perhaps you can look at the others to see how they are relevant. I did not, and will not, have the time to do so.)

  177. 177
    Roger Moore says:

    @Another Holocene Human:

    What WAS wrong with the Army we had, Rummy?

    Well, the biggest problem was that the Sec Def didn’t give a crap about the occupation and had actually been working to make the Army worse at that kind of operation. So we had the Army Rumsfeld wanted, not the Army we actually needed for the military problems we were faced with. Heck of a job, Rummy!

  178. 178
    Cervantes says:

    @Another Holocene Human:

    It’s not as if we could provide DOCTORS or NURSE PRACTITIONERS at CLINICS for WOMEN….

    Find me some Alaskan state legislators proposing that and I’ll be the first to say we should hear them out.

    Meanwhile, well, you know …

    (Incidentally, I don’t know if anyone has asked Sen. Kelly whether he would support a woman who chooses to abort a fetus that in all likelihood will be born with FAS.)

  179. 179
    Phantom 309 says:

    @NotMax: “It’s the 21st century.” Not in friggin’ Alaska.

  180. 180
    Wally Ballou says:

    @EconWatcher: Agreed, a liberal woman would be great. Hillary is the next best thing, though.

  181. 181
    Wally Ballou says:

    I liked Pete Kelly a lot better when Jack Webb was playing him.

    http://www.jonathanrosenbaum.n.....oster1.jpg

  182. 182
    AKSourdoe says:

    Read the whole damn interview, folks. This isn’t just about FAS.

    Ultimately, you have to ask yourself, if someone is damning their child of a lifetime of mental problems and physical problems as well and it’s going to end up costing the state. Is it that time that we have to say, ‘OK, is there some level of involuntary commitment that happens?’ Just during the period of pregnancy?

    We’re not doing that right now. That’s being discussed.

    Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2014/03/20/.....rylink=cpy

  183. 183
    Suzanne says:

    @Karen in GA: I’m a woman. I have peed in far more embarrassing places.

    I hope that, after this, it becomes clear to society as a whole that this has nothing to do with babies and their welfare but everything to do with the right wing’s Madonna/whore psychodrama.

  184. 184
    AKSourdoe says:

    The youngest pregnancy was a 5 yo girl, and women 62 – 70 have been pregnant. So, being equipped with uteri and being between birth and death can be considered ‘pre-pregnant’. So many irresponsible potential pregnancies in need of supervision…

  185. 185
    opiejeanne says:

    @Cacti: I remember hearing a doctor tell a woman to stop making so much noise during labor, saying something to the effect that she’d had the fun and now she had to pay the price. It was the dark ages, two women in the same room during labor. It was her sixth, she was screaming that if Johnny ever touched her again she’d kill him, but the doc didn’t hear that part. Turned out it was a breach birth, Stupid asshole doctor.

  186. 186
    opiejeanne says:

    @Woodrowfan: I let my husband read Raising Steam first. I was being nice, but it won’t last much longer if he doesn’t get on with it. The book is sitting on the couch between us right now, while we watch a Spring Training game. The cat is on his lap, so he really can’t read until she moves.

  187. 187
    boatboy_srq says:

    @boatboy_srq:@Cacti: Actually, thinking about it, no you wouldn’t. Assuming any Reichwing male (hetero or not, married or not, with children or not) has formed any intelligent thought about contraception presumes that said Reichwing male has thought at all about what women (any/all) require/desire in terms of quality of life / quality of health / desire or need for offspring. In 2014 that seems to be something of a stretch. Far more likely that they’re leaving the care and feeding of ladybits to folks who are appropriate capable anointed and Elect.

  188. 188
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Cervantes:

    So, just to be clear, you’re fine with insisting that women pee on a stick in public before they get a drink?

    Note that no one has a problem with the other parts of the campaign, like the posters or other education materials. What people are objecting to is the idea that women will have to pee on a stick in a bar before they can get a drink.

    Oh, wait, it will be voluntary. Right. Because no bar owner will ever be an asshole and demand to see a negative test before he serves someone.

  189. 189
    opiejeanne says:

    @Cervantes: I’d say some of his stuff is very serious, if you pay attention to the running commentary on the poverty in the background, like Vimes’ mother’s struggles with feeding them, and getting his clothes at the shonky shop, and people not being able to afford food but they would buy soap because they had Standards. Yeah, it’s sugar-coated with humor but the serious social commentary is there.

    I ran across a group of right wingers discussing Pratchett in a forum a couple of years ago, and assuring each other that Terry’s politics agreed with theirs, or was at the very least a libertarian. I laughed and tiptoed away.

  190. 190
    Cervantes says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    So, just to be clear, you’re fine with insisting that women pee on a stick in public before they get a drink?

    No. No one is insisting on that.

    Note that no one has a problem with the other parts of the campaign, like the posters or other education materials. What people are objecting to is the idea that women will have to pee on a stick in a bar before they can get a drink.

    Sure, keep objecting to an idea that no one is proposing.

    Evidence suggests that may well be the best possible use of your time.

    Oh, wait, it will be voluntary. Right. Because no bar owner will ever be an asshole and demand to see a negative test before he serves someone.

    Do let me know when that happens so we can together condemn the bar owner to perdition. (Actually, on second thought, don’t wait for me — feel free to share the moment with someone — anyone — else.)

  191. 191
    Cervantes says:

    @opiejeanne:

    I’d say some of his stuff is very serious, if you pay attention to the running commentary on the poverty in the background

    That’s an excellent point. I’m so often in stitches when I read Pratchett that, when I think about his writing, I tend to forget the subtleties.

    I ran across a group of right wingers discussing Pratchett in a forum a couple of years ago, and assuring each other that Terry’s politics agreed with theirs, or was at the very least a libertarian. I laughed and tiptoed away.

    If you see them again, don’t let on that, in real life, Pratchett is concerned about the environment and about global warming (among other things).

    Let’s hope the Alzheimer’s disease is at bay or spares him for a long time to come.

  192. 192
    Paul in KY says:

    @Roger Moore: That was done on purpose. They wanted to bust up Iraq, not compentently govern it.

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