Working the Refs Pretty Hard

This is just one example of how the DC media is lapping up the “Senate will go Republican” narrative.

Also, does anyone really believe that Harry Reid will still have the filibuster if the Senate does go Republican?

152 replies
  1. 1
    hildebrand says:

    Every single time one of these stories gets out should be another cattle prod to the DNC and other folks to GOTV. They should also ignore the ‘national’ narrative, because this isn’t a national election. Don’t play by the bullshit rules of Politico and all of the rest, just do your job. This isn’t hard, it is not complicated, just motivate people to go vote.

  2. 2

    Look at the Beltway media and look at the GOP, its the same demographic. Hardly a great mystery why they prefer the GOP.

    ETA: Overwhelmingly rich, white and male.

  3. 3

    Also, does anyone really believe that Harry Reid will still have the filibuster if the Senate does go Republican?

    Gone in the first ten minutes.

  4. 4
    maximiliano furtive, formerly known as dr. bloor says:

    When Mike Allen is the “ref,” I don’t think “working them pretty hard” is the phrase you’re looking for there, unless that’s some sort of code for “keeping the scotch glass full.”

  5. 5
    MattF says:

    And it’s worth noting specifically that conventional/Republican wisdom is always self-serving and often wrong. Just have a chat with President Romney about that.

  6. 6
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @hildebrand: To give him partial credit, I think that’s what Tweety’s doing in his blustery, spittle-flecked way. I was disappointed to hear on his show last night that Dems, as is their tragic wont, have already internalized Preibus’ “tsunami” rhetoric, which I think Greg Sargent nailed as a superficial PR strategy: Republicans will sell a fairly conventional mid-term that happens to be weighted in favor of red states as a national referendum on Obamacare, David Gregory and Politico will echo it, and Democrats, unfortunately, already are.

    Molly Ball of the Atlantic was treating Scott Brown’s carpetbagging as the nail in the coffin for Senate Dems. I have a blog-reader’s superficial familiarity with NH politics, but it’s hard for me to believe that such blatant opportunism appeals to a lot of people. I know to some real haters he’s some kind of St George because he took TED KENNEDY’S SEAT!, and he has an appealing personal history, but I don’t see the star power to overcome his flaws

  7. 7
    scav says:

    OT, speaking of working hard, the threditors at the guard are busy trying to keep a lid on the comments on the Fred Is Dead thread there. Might as well just engrave it on the official stone / target and move on to the dancing and drinks phase of the operation.

    This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn’t abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.

    DeadDeadDeadDeadDeadDeadDeadDeadDeadDeadDeadDead this might take a while to thoroughly enjoy.

  8. 8
    shelly says:

    I just love this NewsMax headline: ”
    Catholic League’s Donohue Files to Join Gay Parade”
    Don’t you just know he’ll probably be told, “Sure! The more the merrier!”

  9. 9
    Belafon says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Did you see where he went to this Republican state senator’s trailer house (where the senator is living because his medical bill bankrupted him), and when Brown started trashing Obamacare, this happened (DK which links Huffington Post):

    Brown found that out on Saturday, when he stopped by the home of Herb Richardson, a Republican state representative. Sitting in Richardson’s home, Brown called Obamacare a “monstrosity” that members of Congress didn’t even bother to read before they passed. At that point, according to the Coos County Democrat, Richardson chimed in to explain that the law had been a “financial lifesaver” for him and his wife.

    Richardson was injured on the job and was forced to live on his workers’ comp payments for an extended period of time, which ultimately cost the couple their house on Williams Street. The couple had to pay $1,100 a month if they wanted to maintain their health insurance coverage under the federal COBRA law.

    Richardson said he only received some $2,000 a month in workers’ comp. payments, however, leaving little for them to live on.

    “Thank God for Obamacare!” his wife exclaimed.

    Now, thanks to the subsidy for which they qualify, the Richardsons only pay $136 a month for health insurance that covers them both.

  10. 10
    Tommy says:

    @hildebrand: My primary was Tuesday. Went and voted. Stopped at the local 7/11 type store and saw this guy in line with a “I Voted” sticker. I noted that it was good he voted. He then let me know liberals like me would ruin this nation. A long list of issues he had (turn on Fox Noise).

    But he did say one thing that rang true, he said people like him vote.

    My mom runs elections in her district. 34 people voted Tuesday. Let me say that again 34 people voted in a town of 12,700. I mean I have more than 34 family members in that darn town. We have to GOTV.

  11. 11
    Tommy says:

    @hildebrand: My primary was Tuesday. Went and voted. Stopped at the local 7/11 type store and saw this guy in line with a “I Voted” sticker. I noted that it was good he voted. He then let me know liberals like me would ruin this nation. A long list of issues he had (turn on Fox Noise).

    But he did say one thing that rang true, he said people like him vote.

    My mom runs elections in her district. 34 people voted Tuesday. Let me say that again 34 people voted in a town of 12,700. I mean I have more than 34 family members in that darn town. We have to GOTV.

  12. 12
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    an amusing take from Ball’s article on New Hampshire:

    Rubens, one of Brown’s three likely Republican primary opponents—the others are a kooky former senator who’s been living in Florida and a social-conservative activist—wasn’t buying it.

    The “kooky former Senator” is Bob Smith, who is indeed kooky, but was elected to the Senate twice in the none-too-distant past, lost to Sununu Jr in a GOP primary in 2002. Funny, fitting and a little bit sad that Ball doesn’t even see fit to mention him by name.

  13. 13
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    Gay Parade? Isn’t that a My Chemical Romance song?

  14. 14
    andrew long says:

    Also, does anyone really believe that Harry Reid will still have the filibuster if the Senate does go Republican?

    well, yes, I do, because anything a Republican controlled Congress passes that the president doesn’t agree with will be vetoed. And the 2016 senate cycle will be terrible for the GOP, having to defend 24 seats against the Dems 10, in a presidential year. The odds are high they will lose the Senate, and then be left without the filibuster, for what? Two years of actually passing the wingnuts’ fondest wishes, but seeing it be continually shot down and denounced by the Democrats, finally exposing it for the backward, dangerous agenda it really is? Will all the 2016 GOP candidates really want to sign on to the entirety of that agenda, now set in stone? Will Hillary Clinton fail to use the hard evidence of that radical agenda against the GOP, energizing and broadening her base in the process?

    The smarter play is to appeal to Obama’s weakest bipartisan inclinations, round up Begich, Carper, Donnelly, Nelson, Hagan, Heitkamp, Manchin, and maybe even McCaskill, Tester, and Casey on some stuff, and pass a bunch of measures that will prove the GOP can govern again. That will set the 2016 GOP candidate up nicely to enjoy the support of an energized base hungry for more and better wins, while still giving him room to promise progress and responsible governing to the moderates.

  15. 15
    Elizabelle says:


    Heard of Phelps’ death and thought “and so he arrives in hell.”

    Awful man. I am glad he is gone. Not many you can say that about, but he caused too much hurt and pain — on purpose. Ugly, ugly man.

  16. 16
    Tommy says:

    @andrew long: I want to own the pen company that the POTUS uses to veto bills. If the Republicans control the Senate it will be used a lot.

  17. 17
    Schlemizel says:

    Yes, Harry will have the filibuster if the senate goes Republican. At least to start with. There are several reasons why:
    The GOP can always count on a few of those who blew dogs to vote their way.
    Without the White House there is little the senate can do other than pass a bunch of shit canceling the ACA. Obama will veto it & it will die. Why filibuster?
    It will still be Obama nominating people for posts so the goopers can kill that without a filibuster.
    The goopers can always pretend it is the threat of a filibuster that prevents them from doing what the baggers demand. This is not just good politics as it inflames their base it allows them to not do some stuff they know is pretty god damned stupid.

    Finally, it will allow the goopers to show up on Sunday and say “lok how fair we are compared to the Dems!” They can take it all away in the future if it should ever matter. But for now it works in their favor & there is nothing to gain by ending it so they will not.

  18. 18
    Tokyokie says:

    I fail to see how a guy who lost his Senate seat to a political neophyte moving to a neighboring state to challenge a popular incumbent is supposed to upset the power balance.

  19. 19
    Elizabelle says:

    The constant “Democrats will lose the Senate — they’re DOOMED!” headlines and drumbeat demoralizes me, but come fall Democrats will knock doors and phone and persuade voters to turn out.

    Short-term demoralizing, but reminds one that you have to have a spine.

    PS: Doyle McManus of the LA Times is the latest to put up a “Senate Democrats are doomed” story. Picture of Mary Landrieu looking concerned.

  20. 20
    andrew long says:

    @Tommy: would be awesome if he took a page out of Schweitzer’s playbook:

  21. 21
    Elizabelle says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Look at the Beltway media and look at the GOP, its the same demographic. Hardly a great mystery why they prefer the GOP.

    ETA: Overwhelmingly rich, white and male.

    Yup. And the “Tea Party” is mostly Republican cranks who think the GOP is too moderate for them.

    But somehow they never see their bias there.

  22. 22
    Schlemizel says:

    Was hoping for an open thread but I don’t want to wait any longer. Because of jury duty I ended up stuck listening to the first 30-40 minute of NBCs Today show. They were interviewing the woman from Australia whose husband was on 370. It was going smoothly until they asked her if she was frustrated by the lack of solid info. She said she was dealing with it but that she felt bad for the CHinese families since they were being held in a hotel & not being given any information. As she was saying that the screen froze for a few seconds & the camera went back to the studio. There were uncomfortable looks and then the designated bimbo (sorry I only know 2 names of people on the show) went over a bit of what they were blathering about. There was a pause & Lauer looking very uncomfortable said something along the lines of “You can’t provide much information when they don’t know very much.” WHich was a non sequitur in that context.

    Of course telling people a lot of crap without any info is the stock in trade of todays media but that laugher was not what hit me. I have not heard anything about China abusing families of the passengers, has anyone else? Why would NBC be in such a hurry to stifle that tidbit if that is what they did. the whole thing was odd

  23. 23
    Tommy says:

    @Elizabelle: My brother married into this far right family. Folks my age, well it isn’t fun to talk to them. They have a lot of kids 15-25. They are not like their parents. They don’t go to church. They are not afraid of a person of color. They have a gay friend.

    I know every election people want to get these folks to vote. But we have to get these people to vote.

  24. 24
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Tokyokie: I think Cory Gardener and Terri Lynn Land* are far more likely to be threats to the Senate majority than Scott Brown, but they’re (1) not on the East Coast, and (2) Jon Hamm has never played them on SNL, so….
    I just thought it odd that Ball, among others, seem to still be treating Brown as a phee-nom. To give Tweety (again) partial credit, he did say Brown’s candidacy is more a sign of which way the winds seem to be blowing than of a strong Brown candidacy. Even Charlie Pierce, who was pessimistic about Warren-Brown till the votes were counted, says Brown has no chance against the Shaheen Machine

    * googling MI Senate race to double check Land’s name, I see a poll that has her trailing Gary Peters. So there’s your does of optimism for the day.

  25. 25


  26. 26
    piratedan says:

    @andrew long: there you go thinking that the GOP still has a soul and a sense of decency within their ranks. While I will admit that there’s an occasional glimmer of lucidity from time to time I wonder how that problematic centrist pragmatism would sit with the hounds from Faux and the Newsmax folks and the Right Wing Noise Echo Machine would allow anything other than a frog march back to the politics and social standings of the 1850s.

  27. 27
    Steve in the ATL says:

    Who is my least favorite Washington and Lee alumnus–Mike Allen? Robert Mosberger? Pat Robertson?

  28. 28
    Cervantes says:


    I want to own the pen company that the POTUS uses to veto bills. If the Republicans control the Senate it will be used a lot.

    Cross, which is now owned by Clarion Capital Partners, privately held.

    All you need now is the money.

  29. 29
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: Bingo.

    Not only that, it seems like that demo has overall gone more GOP. So of course their informal polls of their friends, their lawn signs, their cocktail party talk backs up this impression.

    And Democrats–especially the older strategists and ESPECIALLY the pundits–need to face the fact that a lot of their loyal voters have died. They’ve been replaced with younger people–that’s the GOP’s problem, they’re turning younger people off–but that old picture they had of who their voters were? Give it up.

    GenX isn’t a big generation but life expectancy and voter patterns are making them increasingly important and white GenXers trend glibertarian and GOP. They always have, look at Gallup surveys of their beliefs over time. Sure, a small percentage will have changed political orientation–I’m sure a small number change sides every year–but aside from a significant-because-well-off group of born GOP voters who feel the party abandoned them it looks to me like most of the party shifts are demo shifts, although, you know, Paul Ryan did hurt the GOP with olds in 2012, it was kind of uncanny. I just feel like you can persuade a primary voter. But in terms of party ID, until the GOP fucks them personally and the person fucked isn’t in total denial (and I’ve seen it… occasionally), which they usually are, the lunchpail hate radio set is not going to switch. “You needed that job… they gave it to a minority” is still with us.

    Which is a long way of saying it’s going to be a numbers game for these Senate races and the Village hates and fears number crunching so expect more idiocy from them for that reason alone.

    Why is GenX so reactionary? The crime rate in the 70s? I’m from the tail end of GenX and I feel like any reactionary urges I have are due to an abusive childhood and abusive religion but frankly that crazee cathlick thing made me an outlier even at the time so that can’t explain it.

  30. 30
    Egypt Steve says:

    I continue to think the Republicans won’t ditch the filibuster, although I wish they would. The reason being: the filibuster has, over the long term, worked in favor of an obstructionist agenda, and against a progressive agenda. Dem. filibusters have been tactical, Rep. filibusters have been strategic. I have a hard time believing the Repugs will give up something that offers them a long-term structural advantage, especially since it won’t yield them any tangible near-term rewards anyway: anything they pass in the next Congress that is obnoxious to the Dems. will be vetoed by Obama and then will be subject to a two-thirds vote in *both* houses in order to pass.

  31. 31
    kindness says:

    And you know what else is paradoxical? Obama raises the stakes and ups the people/businesses in Russia to 20 and the right wing criticizes Obama while at the same time promotes admiration of Putin.

    Hatred of your domestic political opponent has screwed with Republicans heads and the MSM is following the Repubs pouting points without acknowledging that Republicans have gone off the derp end.

  32. 32
    Chyron HR says:

    The electoral map is expanding into Oregon! A feature-length film will expose Obama’s secrets on NBC, ABC, CBS and the Dumont network! VICTORY!

  33. 33
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Elizabelle: Phelps was in hell before he died, as was fitting.

    I’ve felt the tiniest smidge of empathy and understanding for Phelps after it was revealed that he was probably sexually assaulted during a short time in the USAF (Marines, I think?). It made the foci of his hate seem less random, at any rate. But to answer harm with harming others–especially the vile things he did to his own family, the way he drove his children’s Catholic friend to suicide, the greed, the violence–is without question the wrong response.

    Reminds me of that SC serial killer who got nailed for burglary and because of his short stature was made a “punk” in prison, then once he got out he starting killing women left and right and leaving their bodies in the swamp.

    But that’s the old American construction of masculinity–get your power back by bullying someone weaker than you.

  34. 34
    WaterGirl says:


    “Sure! The more the merrier!”

    It is the gay parade, after all.

  35. 35
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Schlemizel: Yes, that is odd. It’s also the stuff that conspiracy theories are made of, after all, it could have just been satellite uplink fail, but…

    It would explain why the families declared a hunger strike.

  36. 36
    debbie says:

    Three words: Karl Rove Ohio.

  37. 37
    Keith G says:

    It was already going to be a challenging year for Democrats before presidential approval dropped and took up residence in the 40’s. I still think that the Dems have a bit of an edge, but it sure seems iffy, and declining especially considering their rather pathetic self advocacy.

    Yes the Republicans are loony, but their equally loony base turns out. Many in the Democratic base need to be thoroughly convinced to leave their living rooms and go to the voting booths. Will it happen?

  38. 38
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @kindness: Well, we’ve noticed that the GOP was acting like the CPUSA before it cracked up, any surprise that they’re worshiping a nationalist neo-Stalinist expansionist wannabe dictator?

  39. 39
    WaterGirl says:

    @Schlemizel: That really is strange. It kind of reminds me of when Colin Powell was on Meet the Press years ago (around the beginning of the war in Iraq?) and there was some off-camera stuff going on, with his staff person trying to shush him because he was saying something they didn’t want him to say.

    Very odd, and the back story is always interesting! I’m sure we’ll hear something about it.

    Edit: I meant to add that I was really happy for you when I read the other night that you were finally able to eat meat again for the first time. I mean, happy to the point that I teared up when I read it.

    I had done a double-take when I read your first sentence that you had had yummy lamb kabobs, because I was sure you weren’t able to eat meat. Then I was so pleased to read the rest of what you wrote.

    My mom had radiation for mouth cancer and didn’t have saliva for the last 18 months of her life, and I think that might have been the most awful part of a lot of really awful stuff. So I have been sending good thoughts your way since this all started for you 2 or 3 years ago – I had no idea that saliva could start working again. Big yay for that, and for you!

  40. 40
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Chyron HR: even the liberal Dumont Network says the Democrat party is toast.

  41. 41
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Another Holocene Human:

    Why is GenX so reactionary?

    These are people who remember the 80s fondly.

  42. 42
    PaulW says:

    this just in, slightly off-topic but of note: Fred Phelps is dead. Funeral arrangements not yet announced but the family hopes to invite all of their friends…

  43. 43
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @SatanicPanic: If we’ve lost Gleason, we’ve lost Bensonhurst. And maybe Miami.

  44. 44
    Violet says:


    I have not heard anything about China abusing families of the passengers, has anyone else?

    Yesterday the families protested loudly during the daily press conference. One woman in particular, the mother of one of the passengers, ended up collapsing and was carried out by Malaysian officials. The rest of the family members were herded out by officials and into another room where they were kept from the press. After awhile, they were taken somewhere else, again kept from the press.

    It has been seen as treating the families poorly and the Malaysian officials have apologized for it.

  45. 45
    WaterGirl says:

    @Keith G: Then I’m sure you will be happy to know that the presidents approval ratings have gone up again.

  46. 46
    Amir Khalid says:

    It’s how our cops operate: push people around first and ask questions later.

  47. 47
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Another Holocene Human:

    Why is GenX so reactionary?

    Shitty John Hughes films.

  48. 48
    Egypt Steve says:

    @Bobby Thomson: I’m on the cusp, a late Boomer, almost early Gen X, so I was in college in th 80s; there’s not a lot I remember all that fondly about those years if it didn’t involve girls and/or dope, but I do have a complete set of Miami Vice episodes on blu-ray.

  49. 49
    Tractarian says:

    Also, does anyone really believe that Harry Reid will still have the filibuster if the Senate does go Republican?

    Of course he will. Why on earth would the GOP abolish the filibuster when Obama is still in the WH with his veto pen? And when the Dems have a strong chance of retaking the chamber in 2016 anyway? Think about what you say before you say it.

    ETA: What andrew long said.

  50. 50
    The Other Chuck says:

    Phelps is dead. Good fucking riddance.

  51. 51
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Bobby Thomson:

    As a GenXer myself, I remember 80s music and 80s pop culture reasonably fondly (probably because it was the last time my taste was popular), but I don’t remember 80s politics or politicians fondly at all. I always despised Reagan. I have no explanation for the rest of my generation.

  52. 52

    @Another Holocene Human:

    Why is GenX so reactionary?

    Our coping/acting out mechanisms are primarily irony and sarcasm. Leads to contrarianism.

  53. 53
    Ian says:

    @andrew long:
    That would be the smart thing for them to do. I say ‘not gonna happen.’

    They (repubs) got three possibilities here. They sweep, regain majority in the senate. That’s going to set up a mega intra fight over the senate majority leader. If McConnell wins his election in KY (looking less likely) he will have to battle it out with the teas for the top spot. If he wins that it will only be by surrendering to a far right agenda.

    Secondly it could add up in a tie or near tie, I dread this outcome since it creates the situation you described. But even if they pass a bunch of bipartisan stuff, it ain;t gonna get anywhere in the house. The senate passed plenty of bills this session on bipartisan support that went nowhere.

    The third outcome would be a narrow dem loss where we hold 52/53 seats at the end of the day. We would have to pick up KY/GA and hold our losses to Ark/Montana/SD. If we had a 2 or 3 seat majority I think we could hold our conservative dems in line.

  54. 54
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Bobby Thomson: Honey, I don’t know a single GenXer who remembers the 80s fondly.

    I do know a younger boomer who does*. He lurves him some Reagan. The current GOP is too crazy for him but he married a Tea Party Patriot and she keeps him in line. It’s kind of comical.

    *-first marriage in the 70s… by contrast, GenX were children/being born in the 70s at best–I count 65-79 as GenX

  55. 55
    Turgidson says:

    @Bobby Thomson:

    Yep. Gen X started joining the voting ranks while America was drunk on Reagan’s folksy assurances that tax cuts and deregulation make the sky fart money, greed is good, and all the anti-Soviet chest-thumping would lead to America being the benevolent ruler of the universe. They believed that shit. And still cling to most of it, despite the mountain of evidence that it was all fairy tale bullshit and laid the groundwork for most of the maladies we now face and Obama has had the pleasure of cleaning up while being bombarded with poo from Reagan-educated regressive howler monkeys.

  56. 56
    GregB says:

    Conventional wisdom also said Iraq was a slam-dunk, that the Democrats were going to lose badly in 2006 because Turdblossom Rove had the math and that Obama would never get elected.

    If these assholes are telling everyone they’ve got the Senate rest assured the Democrats will hold the line.

  57. 57
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Egypt Steve: I’m one of the earliest Xers myself and don’t remember the 80s that fondly. The 90s were far superior. But a majority of my contemporaries are not that politically astute.

  58. 58
    Cacti says:


    As a GenXer myself, I remember 80s music and 80s pop culture reasonably fondly (probably because it was the last time my taste was popular), but I don’t remember 80s politics or politicians fondly at all. I always despised Reagan. I have no explanation for the rest of my generation.

    There’s also a bit of a generational divide within Generation X. The X’ers born in the 1960s/early 1970s were the Reagan youth and tend to be more politically conservative. The X’ers born in the mid-late 1970s came of age during Clinton’s presidency, and remember the GOP as the group that spend 8-years rifling through the President’s underwear drawer. That group tends to be more center left politically.

  59. 59
    GregB says:

    Any moment we’ll be regaled with weepy words from Peggy Noonan telling us that whenever she drives through gated communities or eats at a steakhouse or goes to a cigar shop that everyone she meets is voting Republican.

  60. 60
    the Conster says:


    Exactly. Conventional wisdom rarely bears out, and fewer and fewer people pay any attention to the CW spouters. It’s just dog and pony shows for the 24/7 village inbreds until Hillary declares. So many things can happen between now and then, and will.

  61. 61
    Mnemosyne says:


    I was born in 1969 so, nope, I am apparently still an outlier. Though now I suspect it may be regional as well, because the group of friends I grew up with in the Chicago suburbs are also liberal outliers — one of them is a college professor who was pretty active in the Occupy protests.

    Early 1960s, definitely — my brother was born in 1963 (which makes him either the last year of the Baby Boom or the first year of GenX) and still has pictures of Ronald Reagan on his wall.

    ETA: I wonder when the South Africa divestment controversy really heated up — it does seem that the people who were in college at that time tended to end up more liberal. It ended right before I got to college.

  62. 62
    kindness says:

    @GregB: Or polishes off another bottle of gin.

  63. 63
    Another Holocene Human says:


    Why is GenX so reactionary?

    Shitty John Hughes films.

    This theory has much to recommend it.

  64. 64
    Roger Moore says:

    @andrew long:

    The smarter play

    I think I see your problem, there.

  65. 65
    scav says:

    @Mnemosyne: Outliers and exceptions all the way down, my ’63 and around cohort was spitting on Ronnie while he was in office. I’ve been lucky I guess.

    ahhh, the people that are and remain dead. still savoring.

  66. 66
    andrew long says:

    @Ian: well you’re right, if they sweep they won’t pursue the path I laid out. I was assuming a GOP majority of 51 to 53. With McConnell surviving and remaining leader.

    In that case, I imagined the GOP caucuses in the two chambers working together, passing things in the House first with the understanding that they would be moderated a bit in the Senate. Obviously, enough of the House caucus would have to be on board with this strategy beforehand for it to succeed. I still think it’s a better play than passing their entire conservative agenda for certain veto. Especially as that will straitjacket the 2016 candidates. The alternative is to not do much of anything for two years. In either case you don’t have to take responsibility for killing the filibuster.

  67. 67
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @CONGRATULATIONS!: you’ve overestimated the life of the filibuster by 9 minutes, 59 New York minutes.

  68. 68
    StringOnAStick says:

    Mike Allen might think Colorado now looks like a rethug pickup, but I live here and I don’t see it. The guy (Corey Gardner) who just decided to run against Mark Udall may come across as a nice guy, but he’s a house rep from the wingerest part of the state and is an unrepentant teahadi. I don’t think TPism is selling that well here anymore, just like it is looking pretty fringe-y nationally. Gardner has a very clear record of Teahadi votes, and should be soundly beaten with them at every opportunity.

    All Coloradoans can vote by mail now, so what the Dems really need is a huge register to vote effort, followed by a phone effort to make sure people fill the damned things out and mail them in or drop them off at their county clerk’s office. My husband and I have voted by mail for over 10 years here now, all you had to do was ask and as long as you returned every ballot sent to you, you are going to get the next one without any effort on your part. Recent rule changes have made it so everyone can do this, it is just a matter of getting people registered and nagging about stuff like address changes. I don’t think it is insurmountable, and I will be doing my part to help out in any way needed.

  69. 69
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Turgidson: I got a better theory: the PATCO strike and the utter crushing of labor, drop in wages, massive recession, no jobs — “slackers” — taught GenX that it’s better not to try.

    I was too young for that but I do remember my parents’ deep disappointment at Reagan’s 84 landslide over Mondale–not that Reagan won, but that he won by so much.

    But I’m young enough that my formative teen memories are of Clinton turning the economy around and finding jobs easily. A lot of optimism.

  70. 70
    andrew long says:

    @Roger Moore: heh. yes, but I think the overriding factor will be the need for the eventual GOP nominee to be able to position himself however he needs to to win. That will mitigate against passing the entire conservative agenda for veto. It’ll likely mean not passing much of anything for two years, which will still be the smarter play.

  71. 71
    Suffern ACE says:

    GenX is reactionary? Moreso than the Silents?

  72. 72
    Schlemizel says:

    @Another Holocene Human:

    I had not heard about a hunger strike – not good.
    I find it hard to believe that professionals would not have reacted better no matter what the cause. I am not much of a believer but this thing stunk funny. I went to NBC because I was hoping to link to the clip but – of course – none of that interview is available.

  73. 73
    Roger Moore says:


    Funeral arrangements not yet announced but the family hopes to invite all of their friends…

    That shouldn’t take long.

  74. 74
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @ranchandsyrup: Ah, fond memories of the promises of UNLIMITED CORPORATE CASH assuring us of a Rmoney presidency.

    Hey, Mittens…how’s that going?

  75. 75
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Suffern ACE: I don’t believe so.

  76. 76
    Keith G says:

    @WaterGirl: Good. The last news I read yesterday did not reflect this. If that is indeed the case, hopefully it will go ever upward.

  77. 77
    Schlemizel says:


    Thanks for the kind words. I love this place, so many good and kind people.

  78. 78
    Rob in CT says:


    Works for me. Born in ’76. Didn’t much like Clinton (I’m more pro now than I was then, but I still think he’s a smarmy jerk), but the GOP fundgelicals freaked me out even before I figured out that their “economics” was bunk. Once that sunk in (early 2000s for me), my conversion was probably inevitable. Iraq!, The Sequel sped it up. Once that shitshow went down, every single supposedly good thing about the GOP brand had be irrevocably tarnished for me. I’m now at “GOP delenda est.”

  79. 79
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Another Holocene Human: Oh I hate that dude’s movies. Ferris Bueller’s Day Off is a perfect metaphor for the 80s- aw look at the charming white guy, getting away with whatever he wants.

  80. 80
    Schlemizel says:

    Swell, because they have not suffered enough without a giant helping of government abuse.

  81. 81

    @Villago Delenda Est: Will the goopers unleash their paid to post internet disruptors again? Don’t throw us in the briar patch again! We has scareds.

  82. 82

    @StringOnAStick: How much of a shot does Beauprez have for governor in CO? Am not a fan of him.

  83. 83
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Everyone thinks the Boomers are all flaming liberals or hippies or something, but it’s one of the furthest things from the truth. Lots and lots of serious reactionary fuckheads in the Boomers, many of whom missed the fun (that is, could not get laid) during the 60’s and early 70’s. Just look at Kkkarl Rove, for example.

  84. 84
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @ranchandsyrup: “Romney will win the CO primary. You can take that to the bank, libtards!”

  85. 85

    Something to make you feel better about the current political mess, a brief primer on the upcoming elections in India.

  86. 86
    SatanicPanic says:

    @ranchandsyrup: I miss that guy. If he doesn’t make an appearance by August I might have to create a sockpuppet.

  87. 87
    Schlemizel says:

    @Roger Moore:

    I don’t know, I think a couple hundred thousand service men ans women plus their families sort of owe it to the malignant pustule to show up & see him off. He was, after all, kind enough to send representatives to their funerals. Its the least they could do.

    BTW – Gorge Takai issued a beautifully worded request for people to not show the sort of hate the old shit bag demonstrated. I wish I still had better angles in my nature but animated anus leakage like this guy pretty much killed them all

  88. 88
    🍀 Martin says:

    The idea that Fred Phelps may go to gay heaven is almost enough to get me to believe in heaven.

  89. 89
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @SatanicPanic: Ferris has its moments, though watching it twice in one lifetime is enough for me, but the movie I really loathed was Breakfast Club. I used to have to bite my tongue a lot around the legions of fans; it’s not quoted so much lately, though.

  90. 90
    Schlemizel says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: I’m guessing KKKarl got laid plenty – but it was as a total sub to a monster dom. He was made to eat a lot of shit before release. It was an old family tradition.

  91. 91
    Turgidson says:

    @Another Holocene Human:

    Good points.

    My parents were an interesting political match. My mom was a bleeding heart liberal who was certain Reagan would bring the country to ruin. She died too young to live to be conclusively proven right. My dad was a cynical FDR-cursing libertarian weirdo (got an econ PhD right around the time the U of Chicago was ascending…I think that’s where it took root) whose disappointment with Reagan was that he and his cronies turned out to be incompetents and crooks rather than actual libertarians like Reagan sounded like he’d be in his first inaugural.

    The intervening years have moved him slowly but inexorably towards liberalism as he’s seen the GOP go utterly mad, the U of Chicago school of economic thought turning out to be a bunch of well-modeled but poorly reasoned hocus pocus (seems like any model that assumes humans make rational/optimal economic choices at all times should have been a clear hoax from the start, but what can you do) that led to incalculable worldwide human misery, and the only people making any sense whatsoever having a D next to their name. All this also made him realize the commie abomination New Deal actually had a pretty good reason for existing after all, particularly when his mother fought what seemed like dozens of illnesses valiantly into her mid-90s and he barely had to help her financially at all thanks to Medicare. He’s still pretty kooky, but he’s regained some amount of compassion and sanity in his political views.

  92. 92

    @Villago Delenda Est: @SatanicPanic: I only hope that the sockpuppets unionize and get paid better this time. I’m hoping it will lead to better quality and pride in their work.

  93. 93
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Yep. IIRC, the Boomers are pretty much evenly divided between liberal and conservative, but there are a lot more of them numerically than the preceding and following generations, so they have an outsized influence.

    I think people tend to conflate the younger boomers with GenXers (and there is a fair amount of debate over exactly where the dividing line is), especially since younger boomers are more likely to be conservative than older ones.

  94. 94
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Schlemizel: It’s Takei, like “away”, not Takai. I say this because Takei told a humorous anecdote from when Roddenberry was first preparing to hire him and Roddenberry pronounced his name like “a guy” which is spelled takai in Japanese. Takei said, Oh no, my name isn’t “Takai”, and it’s a good thing too–it means “expensive”.

    eta: and before an otaku internet corrects me, takai means tall or high, including “high prices”

  95. 95
    Roger Moore says:


    Gorge Takai issued a beautifully worded request for people to not show the sort of hate the old shit bag demonstrated.

    He isn’t the only one. A leading Kansas LGBT group (ISTR they were called “Equality Kansas”) has asked exactly the same thing. They hated it when people showed up to disrupt their funerals, and they don’t want to do the same thing themselves. If you can’t find it in your own nature to forgive the guy- and I can’t blame you- at least resist the temptation because people who ought to know are telling you it would be counterproductive.

  96. 96
    Schlemizel says:

    @Another Holocene Human:

    thanks – I was spelling by guess – which is about 70% of me normally anyway – I was close enough that I was lazy & figured if I wasn’t right I was close enough. Funny story though.

    “It is a small mind that can conceive of only one way to spell a word.” – Andrew Jackson

  97. 97
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    I had a boss who was what I call a “Child of Reagan”…about 15 years younger than me and convinced that greed is not just good, but really really good. He and the CEO (who founded the company, but had to sell majority interest to an investor group to cover the cost of his divorce) of the company had a side business that was set up to use the company’s resources to to operate the side business. What tripped them up was that he and the CEO were using company credit cards to purchase escort services, among other things, and once the actual owners of the company found out, well, they were not with us anymore.

  98. 98
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Another Holocene Human: Breakfast Club= these poorly rendered stereotypes will get along if they get high together!

  99. 99
    xenos says:

    It is just the usual GOP confidence game. They act with the usual confidence that they will crush us, then cry fraud when they lose. Meanwhile the professional grifters make a nice buck.

    They will have good election but nota great one Ave will get obliterated in2016. And they will be history after 2020.

  100. 100
    Schlemizel says:

    @Roger Moore:

    I know, we should be better than they are. Its just hard when they have done nothing, nothing at all, to deserve any kindness. But I will stand with the people I have stood with for years and since they have asked me not to behave they way the old impacted hemorrhoid acted I will act as they have requested to the best of my painfully limited ability.

  101. 101
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Turgidson: A lot of what made me a D voter early on was Science! as in the D’s were using it to support programs that worked and the R’s were pissing on it. It was a science popularizer–can’t remember if it was Sagan or the dinosaur guy who debunked the Bell Curve–who really sold me on Head Start and thus basically liberalism, although I was already a bit primed just by observing the world around me.

    Interesting thing, my mother went to UC in the 70s (didn’t graduate) and took econ classes as an undergrad, fueling a life-long interest in the subject. Her take back in the day was that the Chicago School was a boys’ club and they deliberately failed to give credit to significant female researchers, also that they were wrong about a lot of stuff but blithely ignoring it. She mostly hated them for their sexism, though; it think it was only years later that she really got into hating their theories, although everyone knew there were issues from the start, when they completely destroyed Russia with them in the 1990s.

    My mother is really intelligent but also really damaged and has a narcissistic streak which is why feminist theory from the 70s was so appealing to her. She had a massive grudge against the econ dept (also the english dept, I’m sure you don’t care to hear the reasons, but it’s a great mixture of sexism, Okie yokel meets the big city, and Catholic nutbarism) again, mostly for taking credit for a woman’s work and not crediting it, instead making Milton Friedman a god and showering him with accolades. I think it was also her opinion that UC econ was full of assholes who attracted and promoted more assholes, although who hasn’t said that about UC econ dept?

  102. 102
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Another Holocene Human: say “takai” like a teenager- takKeeee! then it sounds the same ;)

  103. 103
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Schlemizel: Heh, I’d almost forgotten, Rove’s father was kind of cool in a sexual outlaw kind of way. I really prefer not to contemplate Karl Rove’s sexual proclivities. He’s so college Republican through and through and yeeeeeaaaaghhhh.

  104. 104
    Lurking Canadian says:

    @SatanicPanic: To be fair, the charming black guy in Ferris Bueller also gets away with what he does.

  105. 105
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @SatanicPanic: hahahaha, I know exactly what you’re talking about

    It adds that rude, sneering teenaged touch.

  106. 106
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Schlemizel: It’s not that they’ve done nothing at at all to deserve any kindness. It’s that by their actions they’ve proven that they deserve no kindness.

    In my view, being kind does not require deserving it, but being assholish precludes it ever being extended to you. I’m kind to people I don’t even know and have no way to judge, just to be helpful and positive and hope that my attitude spreads around as a consequence.

    The WBC crowd, however, go well out of their way to demonstrate that being kind to them will not help spread it around.

  107. 107
    Schlemizel says:

    @Another Holocene Human:

    Yes, college gop = sexually repressed BDSM

    The Rude Pundit did whole series of great posts about the guy Rove kept chained to a radiator in the basement of the White House. It was all fun and games until they tried to pass off a professional dom as a reporter. Nobody ever really looked into why that guy had such great access to the WH at the time.

  108. 108
    Lurking Canadian says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: If I remember correctly, Wisconsin was GONE and the Obummer was struggling to hold on to Michigan. Good times, man.

  109. 109
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Another Holocene Human: The closet is deep, and comfortable. Why come out?

  110. 110
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Schlemizel: Heh, Japanese spelling used to be worse than English (with a literacy rate to match) but they embarked on a massive spelling reform in the 20th century so with a few exceptions it’s very, very phonetic and regular. The exceptions are stuff like kiree instead of kirei, which, who knows, right? I almost suspect a grammarian imposed that spelling, because kiree is not conjugated, which an -i ending would suggest.

    There are like three major romanization schemes for Japanese writing but I refuse to use anything but modified Hepburn. Leave those diacritical (macron) marks at home. Jeez. And romanizing Kodansha as Kodansya only makes sense to a Japanese speaker, lol.

  111. 111
    Fair Economist says:

    @Another Holocene Human:

    Why is GenX so reactionary? The crime rate in the 70s? I’m from the tail end of GenX and I feel like any reactionary urges I have are due to an abusive childhood and abusive religion but frankly that crazee cathlick thing made me an outlier even at the time so that can’t explain it.

    Lead poisoning. Early members of Gen X grew up with more lead in the air than any generation before or since. Fried our brains.

  112. 112
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Fair Economist: Ooooo, fair cop!

  113. 113
    Roger Moore says:


    seems like any model that assumes humans make rational/optimal economic choices at all times should have been a clear hoax from the start

    I’m not sure I buy that. Every model has to have some simplifying assumptions and/or ad hoc assertions because real systems are just too complex to model. People can act rationally, so assuming that they actually do seems like a plausible simplifying assumption, and the Chicago School was able to make some really interesting predictions by using it. The problem is that they’ve stopped showing a progressive problem shift. Instead of taking on new problems and explaining new phenomena, they’re stuck ignoring problems their method is incapable of solving. They’ve basically redefined economics to include only problems they know how to solve and ignoring everything else.

  114. 114
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Roger Moore: To be fair, their predecessors pretty much assumed that, too. The problem today is that psychology research has emphatically proven that wrong.

    If your faulty model is based on provably wrong assumptions and only works in a limited way in a limited domain your model is on the way out. Just accept it.

    The predictions they made based on that model went so horribly wrong we are still paying for the fallout today. Would Russia be invading Crimea without the firesale selloff of its state assets and the free market mysticism that failed to set them up for a functional civic society? Somehow I doubt it.

  115. 115
    Schlemizel says:

    @Another Holocene Human:

    That sort of standardized spelling was a big fight here in the US at one time. It is what cause Old Dickery to make that quote. He was not looking to explain his own dicey spelling but to argue against enforcing a standard spelling for words.

  116. 116
    Another Holocene Human says:

    Don’t forget, the Chicago Boys were invited to Russia to “transition” the economy when the USSR broke up, and they proceeded to turn everything that they touched into shit. They ought to have been exiled to an island with limited contact to the mainland for that stunt. I hear Greenland is nice this time of year.

    ETA: which is to say I’m tired of hearing explanations for the current unpleasantness starting deep in the Russian heart or because RedCommiez have been planning this for years. Bullshit! Nobody knew how stuff was going to play out in the early 1990s. Fascism grows in the face of massive inequality, economic failure, and despair. It’s the inequality, stupid, and that starts with the oligarchy and that starts with the firesale of state assets. It’s only surprising it took this long for a state run by essentially mobsters to become this much of a pariah…. I can only posit that Georgia was a known shithole so everyone was kind of meh about their war with Russia.

  117. 117
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Schlemizel: Know-nothingism at its finest. Same attitude that shot at road signs with metric on them. Hurr hurr derp derp.

    ETA: or Larry The Cable Guy’s entire shtick

  118. 118
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Lurking Canadian: There’s a non-white person in a John Hughes film? (I know, Long Duk Dong- I’m trying to forget) It has been about 20 years since I saw that movie

  119. 119
    Schlemizel says:


    Hey, to be fair there were non-whites in Ferris Butthead too. The parking garage guys that went joy riding in daddy’s exotic were not European extraction.

    BTW – I think I could have saved that film. The actual ending, as the credit rolls would have been Ferris coming too from his acid trip. The trip was so wild that his parents called the police & he is now in hot water with his folks, the school and the cops.

  120. 120
    Turgidson says:

    @Roger Moore:

    I get that there have to be some assumptions in any economic model, but the foundational premise of their entire school of thought is completely discredited by 20 minutes of people watching in a Best Buy.

    Beginning with the assumption that economic actors will make rational choices is fine (they often do), but effectively accepting it as a law of nature in your models is completely idiotic and makes one wonder if the economists spent a single minute observing or interacting with real human beings in the real world. That premise just became a piece of dogma that you had to accept to be invited into the club, as far as I can tell.

    I had this exact conversation with my economist father a decade or so ago, before he admitted that the U of C guys had built their foundation on sand:

    Him, seeing a book on my coffee table: “oh, that guy’s a behavioral economist. He’s a quack!”
    Me: “Oh yeah? Why?”
    Him: “Behavioral guys don’t believe people optimize!!!”
    Me: “No shit, that’s because they don’t! Hell, I know how you spend money…YOU don’t even come close to optimizing, and you’re a trained freshwater economist! What makes you think anyone else does?”
    Him: “Yeah, but..[long pause, with furrowed brow].the models say that we do.”
    Me: “and that’s why it’s a shitty model.”
    Him: grumblegrumble “my son’s turning into a commie!” grumble grumble.

    Fast forward a few years, and he’s basically openly calling the Chicago guys a bunch of morans.

  121. 121
    Turgidson says:


    the point of my aside being, the “rational actor” assumption became so embedded in their modeling and analysis, that it became detached from the behavior it was meant to describe into something…else. Like a message from economic Jeebus. And much like the Villagers, or the GOP feedback loop, they only talked to each other about it for so long that they lost the plot. And got very offended when behavioral economists started popping up and Keynesians started coming back. At least my dad was still reachable.

  122. 122
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Schlemizel: That would have been a much better ending. While we’re on the subject of endings- no consolation woman for Duckie at the end of Pretty in Pink, just him alone and crying, regretting being such a tool.

  123. 123
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    There’s also a line of thinking that says not to give the WBC any more importance than necessary. I would almost lean towards a media blackout, myself — let Phelps’s passing be ignored so the WBC can see how few people actually give a shit about them and their activities.

  124. 124
    Mnemosyne says:


    Duckie’s “consolation woman” was supposed to be Andie, but test audiences hated it.

  125. 125
    StringOnAStick says:

    @ranchandsyrup: Beauprez as Colorado Gov? Not a good shot at all I don’t think; Hickenlooper is a popular governor and Beauprez is yet another ultrawinger.

  126. 126
    ken says:

    “does anyone really believe that Harry Reid will still have the filibuster if the Senate does go Republican”

    Actually yes because regardless of what happens in 2014, the Democrats will take back the Senate in 2016, and anyone with a brain know Hillary is way ahead. The GOP won’t be that stupid…Oh wait, I just reread that sentence.

    Oh yeah, you’re right.

  127. 127
    Roger Moore says:

    @Another Holocene Human:

    The problem today is that psychology research has emphatically proven that wrong.

    No. The problem is that they want to stick with models that assume that even when those models give wrong answers. People use known wrong assumptions in models all the time; that’s the point I was making about ad hoc and simplifying assumptions. The key is that you have to pick your assumptions so that your model still gives results that are in tolerable agreement with reality. The mistake the Chicago School is making is to stubbornly keep its favorite assumptions even when models that use them are obviously at odds with reality.

  128. 128
    Ian says:

    Tancredo will get the R nomination. He’s got the CO springs population on lockdown, and that’s where the Republican primary is always settled.

  129. 129
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Mnemosyne: Yikes, that would have been awful and a terrible lesson for dudes. Other than my complaint about Duckie I liked that movie. Glad he figured out how to do that kind of story with Some Kind of Wonderful– the other good John Hughes teen movie.

  130. 130
    🍀 Martin says:

    @Roger Moore: The biggest problem with ‘rational actors’ is that you can only be a rational actor if you have perfect knowledge, or at least reasonable knowledge. Capitalism in this country is extremely reliant on asymmetrical information. The automaker knows the car is shit from their repair records, but they’ll never reveal that information. Politics are even more reliant on asymmetrical information.

    That information asymmetry is deliberately baked into the system suggests that all theories need to have that as a base assumption, as a result virtually all free market theory goes straight out the window from the outset.

  131. 131
    🍀 Martin says:

    Also, does anyone really believe that Harry Reid will still have the filibuster if the Senate does go Republican?

    He will still have it. The filibuster is only worth killing when you also have the WH. If the GOP holds the senate in 2016, and there’s a republican president, then it’s gone from day one. But it’ll last until then.

  132. 132

    @Roger Moore: The Walrasian equilibrium is a special case but most economists behave like its the rule and not the exception. Market imperfections are the norm not the exception. Also rationality in economics is a weird concept. Your choices are history dependent and the current economic theory does not allow for that.

  133. 133
    Turgidson says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    I only got through undergrad and very low level graduate level economics before deciding I wasn’t interested in doing the math, but my recollection is that the introduction of “preferences” to models at least attempts to address the fact that economic behaviors are not uniform among actors. But at root, the rational actor assumption remained. You can convince yourself that any ridiculous transaction is “rational” if you just say “oh, that guy who just bought a quart of rancid milk for a thousand dollars has preferences unique to him, which make the choice perfectly rational.” No, people just routinely do stupid shit with their money. But we can’t let facts get in the way of a good model, now can we?

  134. 134
    Cervantes says:

    @🍀 Martin:

    The biggest problem with ‘rational actors’ is that you can only be a rational actor if you have perfect knowledge, or at least reasonable knowledge.

    Do you really think so? Is this (“reasonable”) simply a matter of degree? When you act on the basis of an educated guess about something, or when you sometimes satisfice instead of optimize, are you not being rational?

  135. 135
    Citizen Alan says:

    @Another Holocene Human:

    Why is GenX so reactionary?

    I read a book over 20 years ago (13th Gen: Abort, Retry, Ignore, Fail?) which predicted in 1993 that GenX would be very conservative. The theory was that my generation had grown up with the belief that the Boomers were going to wreck everything in the world before we were old enough to experience it (music, sex, politics, and now retirement) and that the government was too inept and venal to do anything to help us, so cynical libertarianism was the only rational response.

    Personally, I’m liberal to the point of being a socialist and don’t care who knows it, but I also live in Mississippi (“Come for the racism. Stay for the medieval governance.) so I’m probably an atypical Gen Xer.

    There’s also the fact that just as we were getting out of college, we got hit by the Recession of 1993, and as we approach retirement, we’re not struggling with the Great Recession. It’s hard to be a sunny and optimistic progressive when nearly your entire working life has been spent wondering if you were going to starve to death in your old age.

  136. 136
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    I mentioned Doyle McManus the other day (can’t remember which thread, can’t be arsed to look for it) in the context of Bob Edwards’ Weekend on NPR. McManus may or may not be a GOPer himself, but he sure was talking as though flipping the Senate is a done deal — still 7+ months out.

    Need to find something else to listen to/watch on Sundays. I gave up the networks’ a.m. shows many years ago, and now I’m about to give up on NPR. Which saddens me.

  137. 137
    Citizen Alan says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    I’ve often been fond of the idea that the Baby Boom generation is Animal House writ large, a generation almost equally divided between fun-loving fuckups of Delta Tau and the sociopathic bullies of Omega Theta.

  138. 138
    Citizen Alan says:

    @Lurking Canadian:

    Was there a single black person in Ferris Bueller with a speaking line?!? I’m drawing a complete blank.

  139. 139
    Cervantes says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Democracy Now.

    I double-dog dare ya.

  140. 140
    Cervantes says:

    @Citizen Alan: Just wondering if you know the Phil Ochs song about Mississippi …

  141. 141
    Elizabelle says:


    Sometimes I think Doyle McManus is a straight shooter, so I was surprised to see him following the crowd on this one.

    McManus did some what turned out to be accurate analysis during 2012 — he is not an Obama detractor — and got mocked a lot by the troglodytes on the LATimes site. (They don’t moderate their reader comments, although the LA trolls aren’t as bad as the WashPost ones …)

    Can’t tell you about NPR — Nice Polite Republicans — am rarely in my car during rush hour, so don’t catch All Things Considered or Morning Edition. The newsbreaks seem OK.

    CBS Radio is deadly. Turn the dial when I hear its news theme.

    We’re all going to be getting our news from the BBC if this continues.

  142. 142
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Another Holocene Human:

    It’s Takei, like “away”, not Takai.

    On his FB page, his own mnemonic, at least recently, is “rhymes with gay.”

    I was never that big a Star Trek fan — enjoyed it when I caught an episode, but never went out of my way — but I adore George and his posts and links. What a treasure.

  143. 143
    Kay says:

    I actually think it is a problem, but I think the focus on Obama’s poll numbers might be overblown.

    This is Kevin Drum:

    This prompted me to click the link and check out Obama’s approval rating in the HuffPollster’s polling average. This may not be a surprise to any of you, but I don’t follow Obama’s polls very closely and I was a bit startled by how consistent his ratings have been. The chart below shows Obama’s average approval over the past four years. It hovers around 47 percent, and it hasn’t moved more than four points above or below that in the entire time. Right now he’s about three points below his long-term mean, and as usual, he’s reverting to it after sinking a bit during his annus horribilis of 2013.

    Also, if I had a nickel for every person who told me we’d lose the presidential race because Obama was “UNDER 50%!” I’d have, like, maybe, $2.10.

    But it IS a problem, and it’s a broader Democratic Party problem. They’re just not saying anything that would make anyone come out.

    They don’t have a coherent, consistent economic message for this post-crash period, IMO. Republicans don’t either, but their voters come out in midterms.

    I’m going to dinner Monday with younger Democrats who worked on the 2012 prez election here, so maybe they can clarify this for me, based on what they’re hearing.

    The Ohio governor’s race is looking a little better. FitzGerald is w/in 5 points of Kasich but 5 points is huge in Ohio so don’t get too excited BUT. It’s really just starting and that’s not the worst place in the world to begin, w/in 5 points.

    I wish they’d just win OH, PA, FL, WI and MI governor. That’d be a really dramatic change right there. Governors are so important.

  144. 144
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    No need to dare, double-dog or otherwise. WRFG, which carries DN in metro Atlanta, has a very sketchy signal, unfortunately. If it had a reliable signal, it would be one of my preset defaults. And I’d much rather listen to DN at 5:00 p.m. M-F than ATC on NPR these days.

    I’ll give it another try.

  145. 145
    Turgidson says:


    As the philosopher Walter Sobchak once said: “say what you will about the tenets of National Sockulism, dude. At least it’s an ethos!”

    This sort of sums up the midterm malaise. The GOP has absolutely nothing substantive to run on that actually appeals to anyone other than filthy rich people and bible thumping nitwits. But they are able to decide on a message and stick to it. The message appears to be “ZOMG Obamacare!” which isn’t particularly persuasive. But when it’s competing with nothing, it’s probably good enough.

  146. 146
    Kay says:


    As the philosopher Walter Sobchak once said: “say what you will about the tenets of National Sockulism, dude. At least it’s an ethos!”

    Yeah, but it’s even tougher, because I think they need a NEW approach post-crash. They can’t keep pining away for FDR. They can’t just return to “green jobs!” or the 2006 platform. That’s…not responsive to what happened.

    People went thru this huge, sometimes life-changing years long event, which was the financial crash and the aftermath. There has to be attention paid to that. They’re risk-averse. They got burned. They’re looking for security, not opportunity.

    I don’t know how to fix it. I saw that the fast food workers were out again today. They’re using “wage theft” now (not getting paid for overtime). I’m proud of them. That’s clever! Fight for Fifteen was getting stale so they went to wage theft. That’s a message everyone understands. The Democrats, in comparison, are so bloodless and (I’m so sick of this phrase) “data driven” that I just tune it out.

    Really? They’re going to have a roundtable debate over the relative merits of an increase in the minimum wage over expanding the earned income tax credit? What is that? Is that a political campaign or a David Brooks column?

    I know it was well-intentioned, but when I saw last week that they were focusing on filling out the FAFSA, all I could think was “student loan debt- that will remind people of their student loan debt and make them sad and hopeless”.

    People are terrified of student loan debt. Don’t Democrats know that?

    There was damage done in the economic crash. They have to recognize and in a way honor that, they have to address what happened to people, and how we all go on from here.

  147. 147
    Cervantes says:


    I’ll give it another try.

    Does the web-site not work for you?

  148. 148
    Mnemosyne says:

    FWIW, I just started getting ads on this site for Alison Lundergan-Grimes, who’s the Democrat running to oust Mitch McConnell. So I wouldn’t necessarily count the Democrats out 7 months before the election.

  149. 149
    TR says:

    @Bobby Thomson:

    Generation X is not reactionary. They voted for Obama and, if you asked the reactionaries, Gen Xers are wholly to blame for creating Obama’s America:

    Now, as a Gen Xer, this rings true to me. Perhaps if you’re a Boomer, you’re mistaking my generations white hot hatred for the endless fucking narcissism of the Boomers for a hatred of liberalism that Boomers think they invented.

    We grew up drowning in the masturbatory self celebration of the Boomers — radio stations that declared your generations music was Classic Rock, movies like The Big Chill, endless 60s nostalgia on TV — and suffering from the selfish navel gazing of a dipshit generation that thought they were the center of the fucking universe.

    Gen Xers love liberalism. We hate the fucking hippies.

  150. 150
    Cervantes says:


    We hate the fucking hippies.

    Says it all, really.

  151. 151
    Elizabelle says:


    Agree with what you have to say.

    Please bring these last two posts up on a non-dead thread tomorrow (or maybe I will throw them in there).

    Both are due for discussion.


  152. 152
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Another Holocene Human:

    Why is GenX so reactionary? The crime rate in the 70s?

    For one thing, they’re mostly the children of Silent Generation types, pre-boomer conservatives. (Alex P. Keaton is a myth: the Reagan Youth were mostly not the spawn of hippies; those kids grew up liberal.) For another, their first political memories are likely of Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan, and how they were portrayed in the media at the time: conservatives bringing Morning in America after feckless malaise-ridden liberalism ruined everything.

    I was a liberal GenXer and I grew up just taking for granted that the vast majority of kids my age were way more right-wing than I was.

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