Gonna have a hard time in prison

Michael Dunn, all-around great guy.

So strange that violence and death seem to follow people like Dunn and George Zimmerman around everywhere they go.






87 replies
  1. 1
    Jerzy Russian says:

    He will feel better after listening to some Johnny Cash music.

  2. 2
    Brian R. says:

    How is that guy 47? He looks like he’s pushing 60.

  3. 3
    Amir Khalid says:

    A quibble: violence and death don’t follow people like Dunn and Zimmerman around. They drag violence and death around with them, the way Linus van Pelt drags a security blanket around.

  4. 4
    EconWatcher says:

    @Brian R.:

    I’m 48, and I’m suddenly feeling much better about myself.

  5. 5
    NotMax says:

    “Whaddaya mean I can’t pack heat in the slammer? Second amendment!”

  6. 6
    Belafon says:

    @Brian R.: I’m pretty sure that ever since he got his first gun, he’s stayed up at night guarding his door against the mob of blacks that were going to bust in at any moment.

  7. 7
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Brian R.:
    Yeah. I’m six years older than that guy and in poor health, and even with my grey beard I look younger than he does.

  8. 8
    Tim F. says:

    @NotMax: If you could pack heat in the slammer, Michael Dunn would already be a pasta strainer.

  9. 9
    Fred says:

    A guy with a huge gun collection once told me , with great authority that when he goes to rallies where lots of people are packing, every one is very polite ’cause, ya know you could get yer face shot off. Upon later reflection I realized that I have gone to many large gatherings of people who mostly don’t carry guns and people are just pretty much polite even without the fear of getting their face shot off. Funny how that is, huh? Maybe I’m just lucky.

  10. 10
    Brian R. says:

    Glad to know I’m not the only one. I’m 43 and that guy could pass for my dad.

    Man, it’s almost like he’s embraced guns to compensate for some perceived lack of virility or something.

  11. 11
    kindness says:

    Remember now, it is wrong to make prison rape jokes no matter how karma like it is. Bad form even if relevant.

    Dude’ll probably fit in well with the Aryan Brotherhood.

  12. 12
    daveNYC says:

    Deadlocked on the murder charge. Lovely. So I guess that if he had put a single round into Davis he’d be walking out a free man?

  13. 13
    NotMax says:

    @Tim F.

    Nothing personal, but “pasta strainer” is one of those frou-frou terms suddenly in vogue which just rubs me the wrong way. It suggests one needs a separate item for produce rinsing.

    It’s a colander.

  14. 14
    donnah says:

    When you love guns, everyone’s a target.

    And it reminds me that if you meet an asshole in the morning, you’ve met an asshole. But if you meet assholes all day, then YOU’RE probably the asshole.

  15. 15
    Botsplainer says:

    @Brian R.:

    How is that guy 47? He looks like he’s pushing 60.

    The combination of low T and a steady diet of right wing rage have aging qualities all their own.

  16. 16
    Elizabelle says:

    “I’m the f*** victim here,” he said, laughing, during one of the phone calls. “I was the one who was victimized … I’m the victor, but I was the victim too.”

    Yeah. Nothing says “victor” like facing 60 years in the stir, for having gunned down an unarmed teenager.

  17. 17
    aimai says:

    @Fred:

    I think this whole shtick about “an armed society is a polite society” is very southern, very old style. Because where I come from people are expected to say please and thank you, and be quiet and reserved in their public appearances, and not behave like lunatics or agressively demand more than their share of public space and attention. And we do it all without people owning guns or expecting to be punished. The assumption that people do what is right only out of fear is, itself, very christianist, too. I was raised to do what is right and behave myself in public because its just polite to do so, not out of fear that some authority figure will hurt me later.

    Southern male white culture is and always has been a culture of violent self defense against indignity, an honor culture. This is also specifically a hallmark of scotch-irish culture and southern black culture–a person only gets as much respect and security as they can enforce by slapping back the encroachment of other people. A person must defend themselves against constant attack or be pushed down, socially and economically. White males of a certain class could and did defend their honor against other white males of the same class–and could defend their position by simply oppressing or killing males of lower class, other race, or even women when the behavior of those people challenged their fragile hold on their status.

    So this kind of talk makes sense, at a deep cultural level, to its heirs. They live in a demon haunted world where someone being “impolite” to you is scarier than anything a normal person, from a different culture, can imagine. Its a pathetic, fragile, threatened, ego that they are exposing but they don’t see it that way.

  18. 18
    Applejinx says:

    On the bright side, he is in jail.

  19. 19
    Shakezula says:

    Dunn & Zimmerman are victims of a complex plot to make them shoot and assault people, they’re the real victims, &c.

  20. 20
    NotMax says:

    Have no doubt that in the dank recesses of his crabbed and cramped little mind, every one of the jurors is now “on his list.”

  21. 21
    Bill in Section 147 says:

    @NotMax: I am not a constitutional scholar but I don’t remember the Second Amendment having qualifying statements saying it does not apply to prisoners. That’s some later bullshit and I am a strict constructionist.

    I am starting to think, “I am not a constitutional scholar but…” is also a preface to “all that what follows will be bullshit.”

  22. 22
    Bill in Section 147 says:

    @Shakezula: Fish got’ta swim, bullets got’ta fly.

  23. 23
    indycat32 says:

    Is the prosecutor trying to poison the jury pool by releasing this stuff? I can see his defense attorney arguing he can’t get a fair trial on the murder charge because of it. I really don’t trust that woman. She seemed way too pleased with herself after both this trial and Zimmerman.

  24. 24

    @aimai:
    I suppose you could describe that as honor, or at least pride and they would use the word ‘honor’. Having grown up in the South, it just seems like a culture of hate to me. Everyone and everything different is hated, and everyone the same is hated – just a little less. Desire to hurt other people – and fear because everyone else wants to hurt you – creates the pride. It’s an abuser culture.

    I believe it has a lot to do with their mistrust of the government. It’s not just that the government helps Those People. They have so little experience with kindness that doesn’t come with a slap in the face or an ulterior motive, programs like the ACA must be a ripoff, a scam benefiting someone else at their expense.

  25. 25
    Gex says:

    I had an uncle show up to a family gathering wearing a t-shirt with two guns on it and the word “respect” over them.

    And I thought to myself, respect is earned, not demanded. He is confusing respect with fear.

    I’m sure it is all the same to him as long as he gets to force people to behave how he demands them to.

  26. 26
    Bobby Thomson says:

    And in other news.

  27. 27
    Citizen_X says:

    @Elizabelle: I think the “victor” claim pisses me off even more than the “victim” claim. Spraying rounds into a car full of unarmed teens because they’re a little mouthy makes you a “victor?” Piss off!

  28. 28
    Mandalay says:

    And from another article in the first link in the OP:

    An Arkansas man faces a murder charge for allegedly gunning down a car filled with teenagers who had wanted to play a prank on his son. One of the passengers, 15-year-old Adrian Broadway, died from a gunshot wound to the head on Saturday.

    The teens said they were pranking Willie Noble’s son by covering his car with eggs and leaves, which is when Noble reportedly arrived with a shotgun. “Apparently Mr. Noble’s teenage son had done a prank on some of the kids that were inside the vehicle on Halloween Night,” Lieutenant Sidney Allen said. “As a result they were doing a retaliation prank and it ultimately had deadly results.” In addition to first degree murder, Noble has been charged with committing a terrorist act and five counts of aggravated assault.

    There are obvious similarities to the Dunn case, except this wacko is also being charged with “committing a terrorist act”.

    Driving while teenager….

  29. 29
    GRANDPA john says:

    @Gex: And I thought to myself, respect is earned, not demanded. He is confusing respect with fear.
    That seems to be a very common failing among a certain class of people

  30. 30
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Gex: I think you are correct in suggesting that they confuse respect and fear. Another pair of things they confuse are cooperation and obedience. Oh yeah, lack of resistance with active consent. I could probably go on for a a while in this vein.

  31. 31
    karen says:

    @Bobby Thomson:

    And I”m sure the word “thug” was used to describe this man. Proof that the SYG law doesn’t apply if you’re not white.

  32. 32
    Tone In DC says:

    @Bobby Thomson:

    I am so sick of this shit.
    Though I admit my surprise that Dunn was convicted at all.

  33. 33
  34. 34
    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN) says:

    @Mandalay:

    Driving while teenager….

    Uhm, no. The teenagers have confessed to destruction of property. That doesn’t justify getting shot and I want to see the prosecuted for murder, but at the same time, it’s also clear that these clowns could have kept themselves out of trouble pretty easily.

  35. 35
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @NotMax: I think the frou frou term comes from frou frou pasta inserts, which can just be lifted out of the pot to drain. Point taken, however.

  36. 36
    Glocksman says:

    @Bill in Section 147:

    I am not a constitutional scholar but I don’t remember the Second Amendment having qualifying statements saying it does not apply to prisoners. That’s some later bullshit and I am a strict constructionist.

    I am starting to think, “I am not a constitutional scholar but…” is also a preface to “all that what follows will be bullshit.”

    Try this one:

    ‘Your honor, I am not a constitutional scholar but this is obviously an Admiralty court due to the gold fringe on the flag, thus I refuse to recognize your authority’

    or

    ‘I am not a constitutional scholar, but due to the real Constitution declaring Blacks to be 3/5 of a person, you are required to sentence me to 3/5 of what you would sentence me for self defense against whole persons’.

  37. 37
    SatanicPanic says:

    Does it make me a bad person that I am enjoying this dude’s suffering? And he still has a fiance? That is one person with low standards.

  38. 38
    kc says:

    But several times he did make comments like “I can’t wait for somebody to try something with me when I have my gun!”

    I’ve heard similar language from several hard-core carry proponents.

  39. 39
    kc says:

    But several times he did make comments like “I can’t wait for somebody to try something with me when I have my gun!”

    I’ve heard similar language from several hard-core carry proponents.

  40. 40
    Snarki, child of Loki says:

    @Glocksman: ” the real Constitution declaring Blacks to be 3/5 of a person, you are required to sentence me to 3/5 of what you would sentence me for self defense against whole persons”

    Okey, dokie..cut off 3/5 and toss it in the slammer. The rest can go free.

  41. 41
    Mandalay says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):

    That doesn’t justify getting shot and I want to see the prosecuted for murder, but at the same time, it’s also clear that these clowns could have kept themselves out of trouble pretty easily.

    Riiiight. Just like the kids in Florida could have “kept themselves out of trouble pretty easily” by turning down their radio.

    Stop defending the indefensible. Just stop.

  42. 42
    johnny aquitard says:

    @aimai:

    I think this whole shtick about “an armed society is a polite society” is very southern, very old style.

    Yup. “Polite society” is a society where one’s inferiors acknowledge and submit to their betters, i.e., to them, which is white people in general and white males in particular.

    Politeness, for these people, is really about submission. They’re all so polite only if you agree with them on your inferior and subservient place. They get really nasty and very much un-polite, and as we know, often murderously violent, when one of those supposed inferiors insists on being treated otherwise.

  43. 43
    Glocksman says:

    @Snarki, child of Loki:

    Solomonic wisdom at its finest.
    Surely an upstanding Christian like Mr. Dunn couldn’t object to biblical principles being used even after that usurper Lincoln trashed the Constitution.

  44. 44
    TooManyJens says:

    “If Michael Dunn was in a public place where he had a legal right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force,” his lawyer said during closing arguments.

    Motherfucker, there was NO FORCE for him to meet!

    How can he even say that with a straight face?

  45. 45
    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN) says:

    @Mandalay: Well, aside from the fact that you clearly didn’t read what I wrote if you think I’m defending the shooting, you’re also asserting that playing your music too loud is just like trying to do several thousand dollars worth of damage to someone’s car. Asserting that these guys were just being teenagers is an insult to teenagers.

  46. 46
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Mandalay: JMN was not defending the shooter. He was noting a fact. The teenagers in that case were in fact committing a minor legal infraction when hey were attacked. JMN also noted that their actions did not justify the response and indicated that he favored prosecuting the shooter prosecuted for murder.

  47. 47
    Glocksman says:

    @kc:

    They’re either (hopefully) playing ‘tough guy’ and haven’t thought it through or they have thought it out and genuinely want to kill someone ‘legally’.

    I got my first carry permit when I was 21.
    Not to carry a gun, but to bypass Indiana’s 7 day waiting period that was then in effect.

    When I did decide to carry it was after thinking through all of the potential legal, ethical, and moral questions that came to mind before and after reading a couple of books on the subject, including Massad Ayoob’s ‘In the Gravest Extreme’.

    Of course his advice of carrying a bit of folding money as a ‘throw down’ to give a mugger in order to avoid using your gun in the first place would have all of the tough guys screaming that he’s a pansy.

  48. 48
    Mandalay says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):

    Well, aside from the fact that you clearly didn’t read what I wrote

    You’re wrong. I read your disgusting comment very closely.

    Asserting that these guys were just being teenagers is an insult to teenagers.

    I thought “Driving while teenager” was a pretty obvious play on “Driving While Black”, but apparently it eluded you.

    And you really gave yourself away by referring to the kids in the car as “clowns”. One of your clowns was a fifteen year old girl who died from a shot to her head. Some “clown”.

  49. 49
    ericblair says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I suppose you could describe that as honor, or at least pride and they would use the word ‘honor’.

    As far as I understand it, it’s a sociological term of art: I don’t think any of us consider that there’s anything “honorable” about it. In other cultures it’s “face”. Same idea, where it’s not that you treat people politely because you want to be friendly and don’t want to hurt their feelings, but you address people in specific ways that reinforce the power relationship between you and avoid possibly violent challenges. Or not, if you’re looking for a fight.

    So, no, an armed society is not a polite society, but an honor society is usually an armed society. Everyone gets to walk around on eggshells wondering if some insecure dimwit took something the wrong way and is going to use deadly violence on someone who never threatened him in any physical way whatsoever.

  50. 50
    Anniecat45 says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    “Having grown up in the South, it just seems like a culture of hate to me. Everyone and everything different is hated”

    THIS, THIS, THIS. I grew up in Jacksonville, Florida, though I had the sense to get out in 1980. (My relatives there still think I’m weird for wanting to leave.) I was actually quite surprised that Dunn was convicted of anything at all; maybe the place has changed a bit since I took off.

  51. 51
    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN) says:

    @Mandalay: Clowns who were engaged in a criminal act. You seem to keep missing this point. What I find disgusting is your attempt to say that some kids who were playing music on their stereo are in any way comparable to a group of vandals.

    Here’s a helpful life tip if you haven’t figured this out: don’t go around trying to destroy people’s property if you want to stay out of trouble. Shooting them is in no way justified, but, unlike Trayvon Martin or Jordan Davis, these kids really were the ones who instigated the incident in the first place.

  52. 52
    Citizen_X says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): You think covering somebody’s car with eggs and leaves is doing “several thousand dollars’ worth of damage”? I would to testify in opposition to you getting a concealed carry permit, please.

    And yes, I think that act would qualify as “teenagers being teenagers.”

  53. 53
    slippytoad says:

    @Brian R.: Yea I saw his picture and I’m like “old man.”

    I’m 44. But, I look half his age.

  54. 54
    Citizen_X says:

    @ericblair: Case in point: during the samurai era in Japan everyone had to be very polite to the samurai. They were the only ones allowed to carry swords, and they could–and often did–kill anyone who they felt disrespected them.

    Not the kind of society I want to emulate.

  55. 55
    Cassidy says:

    @Anniecat45: Not that much. I live in Orange Park and grew up in Jax. We had a subdivision built here in the 90’s, that was almost all white, before I joined the Army and left for a while. The only black people who were “allowed” to live back there were cops and firefighters and were vouched for by their white neighbors. When I moved back, besides expanding, there are a lot of minority homeowners who took the opportunity to get out of downtown Jax and buy a home. Of course, now the neighborhood is falling apart and no one takes care of their homes anymore.

    So, generally speaking, I end up saying something like this every couple of months or so, Southern culture isn’t about honor or pride or heritage. It’s about not being the lowest man on the totem pole. White trailer trash will look down on black people because they know that in the scheme of things these Natty Light swillin’, child molestin’, cracker ass meth heads can reduce a successful black man or woman to second class citizen just by calling them n***** and everyone will go along with it. So while the bigotry is inherent, it’s also a defense mechanism. It allows the bigot to always remember that he’s not the lowest level of shit in the septic tank. Most “southerners” are not well off. They’re (occasionally) middle class to working poor. These are people who have grown up with the mindset that they will work until the day they die. They have no hope, but lots of boogeymen. Bear in mind, not everyone who lives in the South is a “southerner”. Respect in the South is an expectation. Two things that will guarantee a fistfight, or gunfire, is disrespecting one’s mother or perceived disrespect to the offended party, the latter having a great deal of latitude in application.

    The translation for an armed society being a polite society is that lesser people averted their eyes and didn’t speak unless spoken to. Again, expected and demanded respect with the revenge fantasy of punishing those who don’t show proper deference.

  56. 56
    NonyNony says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):

    Dude stop digging – you’re making yourself sound like a heartless bastard with every word you type.

    Intonation and facial expressions do not come across on comment threads, all you get is words. And your words make you sound like a sociopath.

    (The kids were egging another kid’s car. The other kid egged their car first. This doesn’t even rise to the level where my father would have called the cops on them immediately. Instead he would have looked at me and said “why’d they do that”, knowing that, in all likelihood they were either bullies – in which case he might call the cops, or he might call their parents – or that I’d done something to provoke it – in which case he would have told me I was paying to fix the car myself. Anyone who immediately jumps to the conclusion that those kids had anything coming to them outside of a call to their parents is either an idiot or a sociopath.)

  57. 57
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Citizen_X: Eggs can damage the finish. The guy was justified in having a reaction – yelling, reporting them to the police, saying get off my lawn, or something like that. He was not justified in even thinking about bringing a weapon into the situation. Compare this to Dunn. A few kids were listening to music in a public place and Dunn objected to the volume. When the kids declined to turn it down; Dunn’s options as a civilized person were to put up with it for few minutes while thinking the kids were rude or to go someplace else while thinking the kids were rude. Shouting at them or calling the police would have been an overreaction.

  58. 58
    Mandalay says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):

    Clowns who were engaged in a criminal act.

    Is “clown” your new alternative to “thug”?

    You seem to keep missing this point.

    On the contrary, you are the one who is choosing to focus on a “criminal act” when for what happened:

    “Apparently Mr. Noble’s teenage son had done a prank on some of the kids that were inside the vehicle on Halloween Night,” Lieutenant Sidney Allen said. “As a result they were doing a retaliation prank and it ultimately had deadly results.”

    You want to call a dead 15 year old girl a “clown”. You want to call their “retaliation prank” a “criminal act”. It’s pretty clear where you’re coming from: smear and blame the victim.

  59. 59
    johnny aquitard says:

    @Gex:

    And I thought to myself, respect is earned, not demanded. He is confusing respect with fear.

    Fear is pretty much all they got. I’ve met more than a few gun nuts who are like this — they love the idea of carrying a gun because they love the fear and intimidation they know it causes. Oh, they call it ‘respect’ but you and I and every normal non-pantswetter person knows it is about making other people afraid of them.

    I’m guessing it has something to do with them being so fearful themselves. They really are afraid of just about everything. Which is why they demand on being able to carry guns everywhere. They’re frightened of everyone. Making those other people frightened of them feels empowering to them. They think that’s what respect feels like. Yes they are fucked up.

  60. 60
    Cassidy says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: ZOMG! YOU’RE ADVOCATING INFANTICIDE! I WILL BOOKMARK THIS THREAD TO COPY AND PASTE MONTHS FROM NOW!

  61. 61
    TR says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):

    Actually, no. The shooter’s son started it all by vandalizing one of their families’ cars, and then they came to his house and did the same thing to his family’s car. Then the dad of the instigator shot them.

  62. 62
    boatboy_srq says:

    @Elizabelle: and nothing says “victim” like being able to pump 10 unanswered rounds into a vehicle full of kids whose only crime was being obnoxious and being Blah.

    @Citizen_X: I see you beat me to it.

    @johnny aquitard: The whole fantasy of an armed society being polite is shown up as a cartload in the Dunn case. If Dunn had believed that packing=politesse he’d have backed away from the threat instead of shooting up the car. An “armed society” is a place where the survivors are polite, because they’ve learned that being impolite/inconsiderate/youthful/rebellious/Blah/whatever shortens lifespans and because Grumpy White Men have itchy trigger fingers and can’t wait to be p!ssed off.

  63. 63
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Cassidy: I do so love willful misinterpretation, so please do feel free.

  64. 64
    Mnemosyne (iPad Mini) says:

    @TooManyJens:

    It’s the new definition of “self-defense” in Florida — you’re allowed to pick a fight with someone, kill them, and then claim self-defense.

    Here in California, we’ve had “stand your ground” and “castle doctrine” type rules for over 100 years, but in California, if you started the fight, you are not allowed to claim self defense afterwards. That’s one of the “innovations” that ALEC came up with when they started pushing these laws.

  65. 65
    Paul in KY says:

    @Bobby Thomson: The gentleman in prison is black?! You coulda knocked me over with a feather…

  66. 66
    Paul in KY says:

    @Citizen_X: Some Samurai killed an Englishman or American back in mid 19th century for not geting out of way of a procession. There was quite a kerfluffle about it at time.

  67. 67
    Mandalay says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    The teenagers in that case were in fact committing a minor legal infraction

    You have become a parody of yourself.

  68. 68
    Gex says:

    @GRANDPA john: What he and my other uncle, the one with rage issues and a conceal and carry license, did manage to compel was my silence. I’d have loved nothing more than to make the point that if people are respectful of you because you explicitly threaten to kill them, you aren’t actually being respected. But as others suggested, the demand to dominate and compel others. They don’t care about such things as respect or others’ right to autonomy.

  69. 69
    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN) says:

    @NonyNony: If saying that you shouldn’t be surprised that engaging in vandalism can get you in trouble makes me heartless, so be it. Did the other kid do it first? Yes, and he shouldn’t have been surprised if it had gotten him in trouble.

    I guess I do not understand why so many people seem willing to conflate playing loud music with vandalism. If anyone is being heartless here I’d argue that it’s the people who lump Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis together with vandals. That’s the false equivalence being made here.

  70. 70
    Cassidy says:

    @Mandalay: You do realize it’s possible to say that the kids were involved in an activity that is technically illegal and could have faced some sort of punishment while at the same time not believing they should have been shot and/or killed, right? You’re not so spectacularly stupid that you can’t realize these both can be true, right?

    I would say you have become a parody of yourself, but let’s be real, you’ve always been this obtuse.

  71. 71
    johnny aquitard says:

    @Cassidy:

    Southern culture isn’t about honor or pride or heritage. It’s about not being the lowest man on the totem pole. White trailer trash will look down on black people because they know [they] can reduce a successful black man or woman to second class citizen just by calling them n***** and everyone will go along with it. [Bigotry] allows the bigot to always remember that he’s not the lowest level of shit in the septic tank.

    So, it’s “I may be white trailer trash meth head, but because I’m white I’m bettern’ any successful ni-Clang.” Seems like there’s more than a little heritage and pride involved in that.

    I’d argue that a culture of pride and heritage and honor are exactly why it’s about not being the low man on the totem pole. It’s why even poor unsuccessul whites need to keep black people one rung down, and why other whites will go along with it.

  72. 72
    Mandalay says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):

    unlike Trayvon Martin or Jordan Davis, these kids really were the ones who instigated the incident in the first place.

    That is false. If you want to use that line of reasoning the person who instigated the incident was the son of the killer. The teenagers (or “clowns” or “vandals” in your world) who were shot were retaliating.

    But don’t let the facts get in the way of your rant.

  73. 73
    Cassidy says:

    @johnny aquitard: Not really. They call it culture or pride or heritage, but really it’s just a simple desire to not be the worst.

  74. 74
    MsryRC says:

    @Fred: You made me think of this:

    This is dedicated to those who never knew.

    To the uncivil civil servant: You never knew. To the driver who cut me off in traffic: You never knew. To the neighbor whose dog defecated on my lawn, to the co-worker who disagreed with me, to the slothful restaurant waiter:

    None of you ever knew.

    To the doctor who kept me waiting, to his assistant who did not care, and to the pharmacist who did not have time to answer my question.

    Each of you never knew.

    You never knew I am one of the many U.S. Citizens who possesses a concealed-carry permit (CCP/CWP) and carries a firearm for self-defense.

    Contrary to the liberal mindset, I did not fly off the handle in a moment of rage when encountering unpleasant experiences that are part of everyday life. I did not shoot you, brandish my weapon, or lose my temper. Those who obtain a CCP/CWP and carry a firearm recognize their responsibility and do not have a Wild West mentality, as some would suggest.

    Finally, to the thug who plans on harming me and my family: You don’t know.

    I responded to the person who posted this, a (obviously) pro-conceal-carry advocate, that I did not find this reassuring. The commenter was all “Wow, you just don’t get it.”

    Oh, I got it all right. I’m still looking over my shoulder in drugstores in case the pharmacist ticks this guy off.

  75. 75
    Rob in CT says:

    @Brian R.:

    Alcohol. Lots and lots of it.

  76. 76
    karen says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):

    You probably blame victims for their rapes because if they only put out, then they wouldn’t have gotten raped.

  77. 77
    Glocksman says:

    @Cassidy:

    Isn’t there some German word or phrase that basically means everyone has someone above to kick them and someone below to kick?

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    Renie57 says:

    @Bobby Thomson: SYG doesn’t apply to him cuz he’s blah.

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    gvg says:

    @Mandalay: You really are missing the point. It’s not about either set of kids any more, it’s about you not understanding definitions. The egging kids were guilty of a minor infraction and it wasn’t driving while black. They deserved to have phone calls to their parents and punishments like cleaning up, getting jobs to pay damage and being grounded by parents for several months. Not getting shot.
    The over reaction of the shooter is so over the top that it is almost unrelated. Like …throwing a rock at a bunny rabbit (mean) and having a tiger hop out of the bushes.
    Eggs by the way do serious damage to car paint which is pretty well known here and I’d be pretty worried about my kid if he did something like that and I got a normal reaction of an angry phone call. I would seriously be concerned he was going down a thug path. It’s not as serious as stealing or beating someone up but it’s not always stupid clowning around either. Clowning by the way is not a vicious put down.
    Now to put it in perspective playing loud music is most of the time not even slightly wrong. At certain times like residential area when people need to sleep it’s rude. Egging a car is bad but it’s still minor, just slightly over the line. Killing someone “for” either of those things is several miles past wrong. Calling someone names for noting that the kids were being bratty in this case is also over the line and overreacting. At this point it’s not so much the facts of the case as resentment at your uncalled for rudeness.

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    gelfling545 says:

    @donnah: True words.

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    Gravenstone says:

    @Mandalay: How fucking stupid and willfully obtuse do you have to be to understand that the carload of kids egging the vehicle were indeed committing a misdemeanor? The fact that the owner of the vehicle being egged wildly overreacted by using lethal force in a situation where it was in no way, shape or form called for is the issue. That shooter is now looking at a murder charge, in addition to the various lesser charges because the young girl died. JMN was not defending the shooter’s actions, and you (and NonyNony) claiming otherwise at the tops of your virtual lungs does you both a disservice. Although, in your case I’m hardly surprised. You jump to a presumed “purity offense” faster than any motherfucker I’ve ever encountered online, and then cling to it as if your very life depended on it.

    But yes, the kids tossing the eggs were indeed “clowns”. Fuck, I’ve been down that road myself. Never egged anyone, but got lots of practice toilet papering trees at that age. In reviewing our actions in the light of growing older, we were indeed acting as clowns. So were the poor kids who ended up getting shot up. We could get away with such things 30+ years ago. Now, it seems entirely too likely teenage highjinks may very well end in tragedy. Such a sad, scared populace we’ve allowed ourselves to become.

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    Paul in KY says:

    @Glocksman: In the military we have this acronym: SRDH

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    gelfling545 says:

    And yes, I think that act would qualify as “teenagers being teenagers.

    So would I, having seen similar multiple times in the course of a career spent with teenagers. They weren’t thinking about $$$ they were thinking about being a pain in the ass to someone who had already done similar to them.Their biggest danger should have been having the cops drag them home to Mom & Dad & having to pay restitution & do some community service.

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    No One of Consequence says:

    @TooManyJens: Well, not in newtons, but allegedly in decibels…

    Yeesh. Can we consider off-loading some of our hindmost states and offering our self-described patriotists their Shangri-la and help them move?

    Please?

    – NOoC

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    boatboy_srq says:

    @MsryRC: Clearly Dunn didn’t pen that little screed.

    I’m sure there are many who could write that piece and be completely correct except for the

    Contrary to the liberal mindset

    part.

    Because it’s not the CWP holders who handle themselves responsibly that are the problem. It’s people like Dunn who are sufficiently afraid for their whiteness lives they feel the need to keep and use firearms – but who are sufficiently comfortable with their surroundings that then can take the time to reach into the glove box and pull out the firearms to respond to uppity young thugs threats.

    It’s the same argument about sex ed and abstinence. Conventional sex ed is successful if teen pregnancy and STD rates drop (preferably significantly); abstinence is a failure if one highschooler doesn’t adhere (and the rate is doubtless much higher), regardless of the other statistics. Likewise, rational gun laws work because fewer idiots can get firearms – while looser gun laws will doubtless allow more rational, responsible citizens access to firearms, but the likelihood that more idiots will get firearms at the same time is very high, and it just takes one idiot compelled to shoot everyone in sight to make all the “polite society” platitudes demonstrably false at the same time the safety of such a society falls flat.

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    MaryRC says:

    I’m sure there are many who could write that piece and be completely correct

    I hope not! My reaction to that piece when I first read it was that it must have been written by Travis Bickle. That was years ago and it’s sheer menace has stuck in my mind ever since. I had no trouble looking it up to re-post it here.

    What astonished me at the time, and still does, is that the person who first posted it thought it was a model of restraint, when actually it reads like some nutter is just one more minor irritation away from blasting your head off.

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