Carl Hiassen Was Right. Imagination Can’t Out-Crazy Reality: Gun Nuttery Department

Via Salon, we learn what a Colorado Republican state senator — who took office in the wake of a recall of a Democrat who favored limits on gun magazine capacity — had this to say in support of the bill he introduced to overturn the large magazine ban:

A nearly identical law has already been voted down in the Dem-controlled Colorado state House of Representatives and is certain to fail in the state Senate, which is also controlled by Democrats. But the state Senate held a hearing on Herpin’s bill all the same.

It was during this hearing that Herpin made his unfortunate remarks in response to a question from a Democratic senator on the committee.

“My understanding is that James Holmes bought his 100-round capacity magazine legally,” said Sen. Irene Aguilar. “So, in fact, this law would have stopped James Holmes from purchasing a 100-round magazine. I was wondering if you agree with me.”

“Perhaps James Holmes would not have been able to purchase a 100-round magazine,” Herpin responded. “As it turned out, that was maybe a good thing that he had a 100-round magazine, because it jammed. If he had four, five, six 15-round magazines, there’s no telling how much damage he could have done until a good guy with a gun showed up.”

Nicolas_Poussin_-_Le_massacre_des_Innocents_-_Google_Art_Project

Uhhh.

Once more, I got nothing.

Or rather — I have no idea what must take place in an allegedly sentient being’s mind that would allow that person to say such a thing.  My sympathy goes to every friend and family member of those murdered in Aurora, and insulted by Senator Bernie Herpin.

Image:  Nicholas Poussin, The Massacre of the Innocents, 1625-1626.

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90 replies
  1. 1
    Trollhattan says:

    Yup, he’s definitely bringing the conversation into the nineteenth century. I hope the folks who elected him feel extra proud today.

    In other gun news, the 9th Circuit just struck down a key component of California’s concealed weapon law–the part about proving you actually NEED to carry a concealed weapon. Just great.

    http://www.sacbee.com/2014/02/.....ealed.html

  2. 2
    Teddy Salad says:

    “… there’s no telling how much damage he could have done until a good guy with a gun showed up.”

    Or maybe Batman.

  3. 3
    Ash Can says:

    Ah yes, the USA — where guns are valued over people.

  4. 4
    srv says:

    He just burned through your cognitive bias with his own cold hearted cognitive bias, man.

    Even wingnuts can do loopty-loops sometimes.

  5. 5
    Jim C. says:

    Now would be a wonderful time to include a phone number in the article of the state senator’s office to call so people could express their opinions directly.

  6. 6
    jl says:

    If only we all carried around heavy machine guns. The ammo belts would surely jam if a bad guy ever tried to do anything bad with them, and then the good guy would shoot the bad guy.

    Sometimes I think I’m living in a giant farce, written by a deranged combo of Bunuel, Burroughs and Jarry. Except, I guess even more deranged.

    Maybe the grifters are finally imploding in a pile of craziness, scam and incompetence with money. The front page of the TPM blog has looked like the Onion lately.

    In addition to employees turning on O’Keefe and Bozell for being scumbag employers, the House GOPer Barraga (R) advises his constituents not to ride a bike or motorcycle in his home county. And, this one is for Eric, GOPers attack ACA cuts to Medicare reimbursement that they previously voted for.

    I’ll go look at the Onion site and see if they have given up and gone out of business.

  7. 7
    andy says:

    Ahh yes, Good Guys With Guns. Well, they’re all one big happy brotherhood, and we oughta give them all the benefit of the doubt, open carrying or not, with a handgun, or a rifle with a big sexy magazine, right up to the second they start slotting first graders. Then they can start yapping about their goddamn “gun free zones.”

  8. 8
    jl says:

    GOP’s New Obamacare Attack: Hitting Medicare Cuts They Voted For

    “It’s a curious line of attack [against the ACA cuts] because the GOP’s own budget proposals by House Budget Chair Paul Ryan (R-WI) in 2011, 2012 and 2013 continued those cuts, and Republicans voted overwhelmingly for them each of those years. That includes every signatory on the letter: Speaker John Boehner (R-OH), Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA), Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy (R-CA), Republican Conference Chair Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R-WA), Energy & Commerce Chair Fred Upton (R-MI) and Ways & Means Chair Dave Camp (R-MI).”

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/d.....-advantage

  9. 9
    Roger Moore says:

    He must be misspelling his last name. The correct spelling is obviously “Derpin'”.

  10. 10
    SatanicPanic says:

    The world is full of bad guys, but whenever the guns come out we can be sure that a good guy will defend everyone. Uh, what?

  11. 11
    Baud says:

    @jl:

    Jesus. Mitt Romney tried that. It failed miserably. The lack of new material makes me sad.

  12. 12
    jl says:

    @Baud: The Onion, right now, seems to be reduced to mostly sports humor. Poor blighters, they never had a chance against Peaking Wingnut.

  13. 13
    Amir Khalid says:

    I’m not sure what legitimate need a member of the public has for an AR-15, let alone a 15-round magazine in it, let alone a 100-round magazine. Can any military veteran here tell us, for comparison, how many rounds a soldier normally carries into a combat zone?

  14. 14
    Tom Levenson says:

    So: over at my home blog (the Inverse Square Blog, in case you’re wondering) someone new to that venue showed up to comment thusly:

    Why do you reject fact and common sense?
    Larger magazines jam more often. The shooter in Arizona had trouble with his, Aurora Colorado — his jammed.

    On the other hand, the Virginia tech murderer used 10 round magazines for both his pistols. Believe more people were killed there then in Aurora Colorado.

    I replied there gently.

    Y’all are under no obligation to do the same, here or there.

  15. 15
    NotMax says:

    Mediocre projection and inconsistent sound, overpriced crappy snacks, inconsiderate and rude patrons, poor ventilation, lackadaisical cleanliness.

    And firefights.

    That’s entertainment.

  16. 16
    cyntax says:

    @jl:

    Sometimes I think I’m living in a giant farce, written by a deranged combo of Bunuel, Burroughs and Jarry. Except, I guess even more deranged.

    If Burroughs had wrote it, we would at least have a much saner drug policy. But being strapped would mean something rather different…

  17. 17
    beltane says:

    @Baud: The GOP has become the worst vaudeville act in history.

  18. 18
    kindness says:

    Thank you Colorado for voting out a good guy and voting in a nut case.

  19. 19
    TaMara (BHF) says:

    I hate it when Colorado makes the front page, and not in a good way.

    @Jim C.: Here it is

    Cap: 303-866-6364
    E-mail: bernie.herpin.senate@state.co.us

  20. 20
    Baud says:

    @beltane:

    I wish they’d say “Good night, Gracie” already.

  21. 21
    beltane says:

    @Baud: The voters need to give them the hook.

  22. 22
    TaMara (BHF) says:

    @kindness: That would be District 11 in El Paso County, not the whole damn state.

  23. 23
    cyntax says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    I carried 180 rounds (six clips) plus four grenades but I was in an artillery unit. The infantry boys might carry more.

  24. 24
    PurpleGirl says:

    @cyntax: There would have been some half-robed sexy women helping the hero.

  25. 25
    kindness says:

    @TaMara (BHF): My snark. Don’t be offended.

  26. 26
    Hungry Joe says:

    Can anyone remember any incident, ever, in which a good guy with a gun (other than a cop) pulled out the ol’ equalizer, blew away the bad guy (and ONLY the bad guy), and saved the day? With all the Second Amendment warriors packing these days you’d think there’d be one heroic episode after another. And yet …

    (I’m sure there must have been a couple, somewhere, sometime, which of course more than makes up for all the collateral carnage.)

  27. 27
    cyntax says:

    @PurpleGirl:

    There would definitely be an upside to the whole scenario.

  28. 28
    thalarctos (not the other one) says:

    There’s always a bigger kook. There is _always_ a bigger kook.

  29. 29
    TaMara (BHF) says:

    @kindness: Not offended :-) but want everyone to know that’s the Focus on Family territory. You know, the we don’t kill children unless they’ve left the womb people.

    ETA – my district is responsible for the US Congressman abomination that is Cory Gardner.

  30. 30
    MikeJ says:

    @Hungry Joe: I remember when Gabby Giffords got shot there was a guy with a gun there but he never pulled it. He knew that if people saw another guy with a gun they would assume he was a bad guy and kill him. They wound up just tackling the shooter.

  31. 31
    gene108 says:

    @jl:

    Running against the Medicare “cuts” in the ACA worked for them in 2010, why not trot it out again in 2014?

    Whose the elderly voter going to believe, a good Christian man like John Boehner or the Muslim Barack Obama?

  32. 32
    PurpleGirl says:

    @Hungry Joe: The wing nuts keep saying they know of hundreds of cases but they never actually give names, dates, details. On the TV and in movies and books, there are thousands of cases in the unreal universe.

  33. 33
    Cassidy says:

    @Hungry Joe: Just ask them. They’ll tell you it happens everyday. They insist.

    Unfortunately, the dipshit is partially correct. It wasn’t the availability of the betamag that saved lives, but the [lacking in] quality of the product. Betamags are notorious for jamming.

  34. 34
    Trollhattan says:

    @Hungry Joe:

    I do recall the dude who grabbed his office pistol, sprinted across the street to the Giffords shooting and considered shooting the bystander who had taken Loughner’s pisto awayl–so we nearly had that happen.

  35. 35
    PurpleGirl says:

    @MikeJ: Yes, that’s true and that’s why police usually are against a good guy with a gun taking any action.

  36. 36
    Trollhattan says:

    @PurpleGirl:

    Silly, the “Liberal Media” refuse to run the stories. That’s all.

  37. 37
    Trollhattan says:

    @Trollhattan:

    Mike J beat me to it. With a candlestick. In the drawing room.

  38. 38
    Raven says:

    @Amir Khalid: as much as you can!

  39. 39
    Raven says:

    @Amir Khalid: as much as you can!

  40. 40
    Mike in NC says:

    @Roger Moore: Maybe it should be “Halperin”.

  41. 41
    SatanicPanic says:

    @PurpleGirl: Except for when they try to claim they personally have stopped dozens of crimes themselves.

  42. 42
    Cassidy says:

    @Amir Khalid: Standard combat load is 210 rounds, 7 30 round magazines. Some people only like to put 28 in them thinking the magazine performs better, but that’s more of an old wives tale. Anyway, think of that as a minimum. I carried 10 on me and we had a bag full of loaded magazines in our vehicles plus cans of ammo to refill said magazines.

    The only people who had betamags were the SOF people and they quickly shitcan them. They jam all the time and they make the weapon heavier. There is no real use for them beyond the image factor.

  43. 43
    burnspbesq says:

    @andy:

    Good Guys With Guns.

    Here’s the thing I’ve never been able to figure out. When law enforcement arrives at the scene of an ongoing fire-fight between a self-proclaimed Good Guy with a Gun and an alleged Bad Guy with a Gun, how are they supposed to tell which is which? This could be especially challenging if the alleged Bad Guy looks like a Marine and the self-proclaimed Good Guy Looks like a roadie for the Allman Brothers (or worse, is blah or brown or trans).

  44. 44
    Tom Levenson says:

    @Cassidy: Weight of 7 or 10 30 round magazines?

  45. 45
    Mike in NC says:

    @burnspbesq: Obviously, it’s white hats vs black hats.

  46. 46
    Bokonon says:

    As someone who lives in Colorado, and whose house is bracketed by the Aurora theater on one side and Arapahoe High School on the other, with Columbine High School just a short distance away … this crap isn’t funny. I know people who got shot in that theater.

    But I can guarantee that the people at the Rocky Mountain Gun Owners are smirking and exchanging high fives.

    Bernie Herpin is a right-wing radical and a general mongoloid – but I predict that none of his stupidity at this hearing will matter. Herpin was sent to the Colorado legislature as part of an aggressive and well-funded political dirty trick – namely, pushing the different recall elections, which have included tons of out-of-state soft money, lawsuits that prevented mail-in ballots, chicanery on shifting polling places, voter suppression, and the like. And they have been successful. Enough of the voters in the targeted districts bought it. And now that Bernie has gotten his seat in the legislature, his charter is pretty clear – it is to sabotage, repeal and wreck things in the classic Tea Party manner. Particularly gun control laws. And this clown show is just part of that. It is all part of breaking and discrediting the Colorado legislature.

    There’s a plan. It is called “rule or ruin”.

  47. 47
    Calouste says:

    @MikeJ: And they managed to tackle the shooter in that particular case because he was changing magazines.

  48. 48
    Zam says:

    Ok so let me get this straight. 100 round magazines are absolute shit and jam all the time, smaller ones are way more efficient. Then why the fuck did Colorado have to have a recall election to put this jackass in office over the legality of a type of magazine that these “good guys” wouldn’t even use?

    @Hungry Joe: Many seem to be under the impression that the only reason the mall wasn’t shot up by violent thugs when they went shopping was that gun they had strapped to their hip. So basically every day a gun nut isn’t directly involved in a shooting counts as having stopped a shooter.

  49. 49
    PurpleGirl says:

    @burnspbesq: I’ve never been able to find the story but I remember that there was an incident at a McDonald’s in Greenwich Village where the cop coming the scene ended up shooting both the bad guy and an off-duty cop who had been in the place. And then there an incident in Harlem where a cop shot another cop in a burglary thing.

    Basically there is no way to tell absent the good guy, if he’s a cop, shouting repeatedly that he’s a cop.

  50. 50
    Raven says:

    @Cassidy: what about ammo for the 60?

  51. 51
    Raven says:

    @Cassidy: what about ammo for the 60?

  52. 52
    Cassidy says:

    @burnspbesq: The good guy is the white guy, duh.

    @Tom Levenson: Roughly a pound apiece for standard issue aluminum AR-15 magazines. From the internets, a loaded betamag is a little over 4 lbs. For soldiering purposes, the total weight isn’t that big a deal, but when carrying a rifle on a foot patrol, adding 1 lbs to your weapon vs. 4 is no contest.

  53. 53
    The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik says:

    The stupidest thing is that this tripe is probably going to be perfectly seductive to most people who just see “GUN GRABBER, GUN GRABBER, SAVE OUR FREEDUMSSS!!!”

    I want to believe that this kind of stupidity gets punished. Unfortunately I know it gets rewarded out the ass instead because the 2nd Amendment is the only one that really counts.

  54. 54
    Cassidy says:

    @Raven: Shit, no clue. I don’t even know what MGunners carry anymore. I know they handed out 200 rnd belts to carry as crossload and we were supposed to hand them over when needed.

    @Zam: So that’s the funny part. The gun nuts who like to buy military weapons are trying to play dress up and be the cool kids. The betamag looks really cool on an assault rifle, but it’s really an inefficient piece of equipment. The tell is that these guys call their accessories “furniture”, ex: “this rifle has all magpul furniture”. It’s for looks.

  55. 55
    Hungry Joe says:

    Right, I forgot about the Giffords incident — where a guy with a gun showed himself to be sensible by acting like a guy without a gun.

    So why … ?

    Never mind. I was about to ask a very dumb question.

  56. 56
    Bokonon says:

    @The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik: That pretty much sums up the politicking that went into the recall elections here in Colorado. Served up with a healthy, opportunistic side of “Save the baybeeeeeees!” from the anti-abortion crowd. Who joined in the recall efforts, and added their money and organizing muscle.

    Bernie Herpin is an activist and leader in both the anti-gun and anti-abortion movements.

  57. 57
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Cassidy:
    I’ve had the thought that if all that extra junk civilians like to put on their AR-15 and AK-47 toys really were useful, it would be standard issue in the real military.

  58. 58
    kc says:

    In Gun Fantasy Land, the mythical good shooter not only never misses, HIS gun never jams.

  59. 59
    gnomedad says:

    It’s all underpants gnomes, all the time with these guys. No conceivable fact or event could do anything but support their position.

  60. 60
    Trollhattan says:

    @Bokonon:

    Makes a sort of perverse sense. My sympathies. Allow me to introduce Tim Donnelly, the man who would be governor of California.

    http://www.sanluisobispo.com/2.....aven.html#

    Tim Donnelly found his paradise at a gun store Tuesday.“I feel like I’ve died and gone to heaven,” the Republican candidate for governor said as he walked in.At the counter, among the firearms and mounted animal heads at Outdoor Sportsman in Stockton, the Twin Peaks assemblyman handled a 12-gauge shotgun and admired an antique rifle. “Oh, my God,” he said.

    Donnelly shook his head when he saw a customer filling out paperwork required to buy a gun in California. “Look at all the paperwork you’ve got to do to exercise your Second Amendment rights,” he said.

    http://www.sanluisobispo.com/2.....rylink=cpy

    Heaven’s where you find it, I guess.

  61. 61
    les says:

    @Ash Can:

    Ah yes, the USA — where guns are valued over people.

    Yeah. Gotta love f’n Kansas; just heard a political consultant who has hope for America, ’cause there’s more new concealed carry permits than ACA signups. Always better to shoot the other, than keep ’em healthy.

  62. 62
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Trollhattan:

    Allow me to introduce Tim Donnelly, the man who would be governor of California designated Republican fall guy.

    Unless the California Republican Party can pull another celebrity candidate out of their asses, Donnelly will be about as successful as Dan Lungren was against Gray Davis.

  63. 63
    gnomedad says:

    @Trollhattan:

    “I feel like I’ve died and gone to heaven,”

    Be careful what you wish for.

  64. 64
    Amir Khalid says:

    Hmm.

  65. 65
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    All right, I know I’m old with all that entails but, I no longer understand the nation in which I grew old. Of all the things that I thought that I’d experience in life feeling like a stranger in my own country was not on the list.

  66. 66
    aimai says:

    @Tom Levenson: But by this logic the appropriate response of a sane society is to mandate that all guns be built to blow up in their users hand. Or all magazines be designed to jam after the first bullet–after all good guys only need one bullet.

  67. 67
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Mnemosyne: I was actually a bit puzzled when i read “Republican assemblyman”. Took me a second to realize there are a few of those left.

  68. 68
    shelly says:

    “Look at all the paperwork you’ve got to do to exercise your Second Amendment rights,” he said.

    But it’s good and just that people must be made to jump thru hoops to exercise their right to vote.

  69. 69
    gene108 says:

    @Zam:

    Ok so let me get this straight. 100 round magazines are absolute shit and jam all the time, smaller ones are way more efficient. Then why the fuck did Colorado have to have a recall election to put this jackass in office over the legality of a type of magazine that these “good guys” wouldn’t even use?

    Gun ownership in the USA is teetering – and has been teetering, since FDR outlawed fully automatic weapons or the 1968 law was passed or the Brady Bill (I guess depending on your age) – on the slippery slope of becoming completely illegal and all it will take is just one-more-gun-regulation to getting passed to push legal civilian gun ownership over the edge and into oblivion.

    This is the basic doctrine from which all gun-nut views on gun legislation emanates.

  70. 70
    Zam says:

    @Trollhattan: God forbid you have to fill out some forms before walking off with an instrument that only exist to inflict harm, and likely kill, another living thing.

  71. 71
    Anoniminous says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate:

    I feel the same. Can you imagine a presidential candidate today echo Bobby Kennedy’s words from 1968:

    Gross National Product counts air pollution and cigarette advertising, and ambulances to clear our highways of carnage. It counts special locks for our doors and the jails for the people who break them. It counts the destruction of the redwood and the loss of our natural wonder in chaotic sprawl. It counts napalm and counts nuclear warheads and armored cars for the police to fight the riots in our cities. It counts Whitman’s rifle and Speck’s knife, and the television programs which glorify violence in order to sell toys to our children. Yet the gross national product does not allow for the health of our children, the quality of their education or the joy of their play. It does not include the beauty of our poetry or the strength of our marriages, the intelligence of our public debate or the integrity of our public officials. It measures neither our wit nor our courage, neither our wisdom nor our learning, neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country, it measures everything in short, except that which makes life worthwhile.

    I can’t.

  72. 72
    gene108 says:

    @Anoniminous:

    That’s why we switched to Gross Domestic Product to measure our economic productivity :-p

  73. 73
    Jim C. says:

    @TaMara (BHF):
    Thank you!

  74. 74
    Mike in NC says:

    @Trollhattan:

    Donnelly shook his head when he saw a customer filling out paperwork required to buy a gun in California. “Look at all the paperwork you’ve got to do to exercise your Second Amendment rights,” he said.

    I posted earlier, but SC governor and panderer to all things gun-nut Nikki Haley is backing a bill that will permit pretty much any SC resident to buy a gun as long as they can plunk down the money, with no restrictions about permits or safety handling. Because the sacred Second Amendment was handed down to Moses on Mount Sinai.

  75. 75
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @kc:

    Remarkably, this is very similar to how Hollywood depicts the use of firearms.

  76. 76
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @Mike in NC: Because of the the sacred Second Amendment was handed down to Moses on Mount Sinai. ghost of Denmark Vesey. It’s South Carolina.

  77. 77
    Anoniminous says:

    @gene108:

    I prefer to use GDC* as the estimate of economic activity.

    * Gross Drug Consumption

  78. 78
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    @Anoniminous:
    Thank you. Traveling through time has its perils. Or as my Irish forefathers would say “Growing old ain’t for sissies.”

  79. 79
    Cacti says:

    Speaking of gun nuts, after 2 days of deliberation, a Florida jury still can’t decide whether Michael Dunn is guilty of murdering an unarmed black teenager, or attempting to murder the other passengers of the vehicle he fired 9 shots into.

  80. 80
    jl says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate:

    ” I no longer understand the nation in which I grew old. ”

    The gun nuts have some advice for that: buy some guns and ammo.

  81. 81
    Baud says:

    @Cacti:

    I caught on the news that the jury instructions were quite long. I’m praying the delay is due to that and that they reach a same verdict.

  82. 82
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Cacti:

    That’s because in Florida (and some other states with the same SYG law), the jury has to consider if Dunn himself felt threatened, not whether a reasonable person would have felt threatened in the same circumstances. It’s a very subjective way of looking at self-defense and it usually leads to acquittal.

    We’re probably looking at a hung jury, at best, but more likely an acquittal, because the law now makes it all about Dunn’s fee-fees and not what a rational person would do.

    ETA: Just to be clear, I really really REALLY hope I’m wrong about this. But I don’t think I am.

  83. 83
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Well, of course Dunn was threatened. These guys were THUGS, and they were in the same hemisphere as him.

  84. 84
    Cassidy says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: With their thuggy hippity hoppity music and their saggy pants and they disrespected him. This ain’t about race, though.

  85. 85
    Roger Moore says:

    @Trollhattan:

    “I feel like I’ve died and gone to heaven,” the Republican candidate for governor said as he walked in.

    “Now, where are my 72 virgins?”, he continued.

  86. 86
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Cassidy:

    No. Absolutely not.

    BTW, I have some primo beachfront property in Outer Mongolia for sale!

  87. 87
    Geeno says:

    @Teddy Salad: He’s the god-damned Batman

  88. 88
    Glocksman says:

    I’m late to the thread, but I’ll put in my $0.02

    @Cassidy:

    So that’s the funny part. The gun nuts who like to buy military weapons are trying to play dress up and be the cool kids. The betamag looks really cool on an assault rifle, but it’s really an inefficient piece of equipment. The tell is that these guys call their accessories “furniture”, ex: “this rifle has all magpul furniture”. It’s for looks.

    This.

    It’s also interesting to note that for decades Ruger only sold 5 round magazines with the civilian Mini-14 rifle that shoots the same cartridge as the AR.

    At least it was that way back in the early 90’s when I owned a Mini-14.
    The factory 5 rounders worked perfectly and so did the sole ‘Law Enforcement Only’ Ruger manufactured 20 round factory mag I bought from a surplus sale.

    The aftermarket 20 and 30 rounders were pure junk that constantly jammed.

    The lack of magazines for the Mini was because Bill Ruger didn’t think civilians should have them:

    The best way to address the firepower concern is therefore not to try to outlaw or license many millions of older and perfectly legitimate firearms (which would be a licensing effort of staggering proportions) but to prohibit the possession of high capacity magazines. By a simple, complete and unequivocal ban on large capacity magazines, all the difficulty of defining ‘assault rifle’ and ‘semi-automatic rifles’ is eliminated. The large capacity magazine itself, separate or attached to the firearm, becomes the prohibited item. A single amendment to Federal firearms laws could effectively implement these objectives.”

    That said, now that Bill Ruger is dead his company sells factory high capacity magazines to go with their rifles.

  89. 89
    Steve from Antioch says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    That’s incorrect. In Florida the test under 776.012 is whether the person “reasonably believes” that deadly force is necessary. That allows consideration of facts and circumstances but the test is “reasonably belief”, not subjective belief.

    @Zam:
    IIRC the Colorado law was to limit magazines to 10 rounds or something, whereas many modern semi-autos function well with 15 or 18 round magazines. There’s a big difference between the reliability of a15 round magazine and a 100 round magazine. Not really any difference in reliability between a 10 and a 15 round magazine.

  90. 90
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Steve from Antioch:

    We went round and round on this the other day, and it’s a difference in jury instructions. California’s laws are similar to Florida’s on their face (we’ve had a “castle rule” and no duty to retreat, aka stand your ground, for something like 100 years) but we get very different results in court because of the difference in jury instructions between the two states. It’s the difference between what a reasonable person would believe (the rule in California) and what the defendant reasonably believed (the rule in Florida).

    Either that, or Florida juries are just openly racist as shit and will come up with any excuse to let a white guy murder a black kid with no punishment. Your call.

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