More Talk About Michael Sam

Courtesy commentor Belafon, who got it from LGF. How often do you hear a TV person quoting Audre Lord — approvingly?

Earlier today, commentor Comrade Jake linked to a great profile in the NYTimes:

He was one of the best players to come out of tiny Hitchcock, Tex., where his family was well known for all the wrong reasons. He was an all-American and defensive terror on the football field. He was a regular at the gay club, where the bartenders knew him by name.

Sam introduced himself to the world Sunday night as a National Football League prospect who happens to be gay. Now he is poised to become a trailblazer in a violent and macho world that will scrutinize his every action and turn his private life into a very public debate.

But Sam has never had it easy. He grew up about 40 miles southeast of Houston near Galveston Bay in Texas, the seventh of eight children. Three of his siblings have died and two brothers are in prison. He lived briefly in the back seat of his mother’s car, and his relationship with his family remains complicated: When he visits home, he usually stays with friends….

And I personally want to share this from one of my new favorite bloggers, David Roth at SB Nation:

[Mike] Francesa is the ulcerous anthropomorphized double-cut pork chop who bestrides the sports talk radio scene like a smug colossus draped in wrinkle-resistant Jos. A. Bank shirts…. And yet, when Mike Francesa talked about Michael Sam on the radio earlier this week, he came as close to being useful as he ever gets. It helped, if that’s the word, that Francesa was basically Cyd Ziegler in comparison to his callers, a nightmare army of Long Island Sal’s and Donnie’s In Boonton demanding to know, one after the other, 1) why this was news and 2) what about the showers, the naked showers.

It’s unclear whether Francesa — who has taken that tack himself in matters having to do with gay athletes — refused to humor them because he so plainly loathes his callers, or if he actually understood that there was some objective import to a rising NFL prospect refusing to pretend to be someone he isn’t simply because who and how he is might bother his (generally reactionary) future employers. The result, either way, was exceedingly wince-inducing radio. But there was something instructive buried amid all these weeping sacks of gay panic and piles of hot male garbage. More surprising still, this instructive thing came from Francesa himself.

It was, granted, an accident. Francesa and his callers generally agreed that they did not want to talk about this thing that they were talking about. “Listen, if you are a regular player, just a normal, everyday football player getting ready for the NFL draft, you don’t discuss your sexuality,” Francesa explained, with his characteristic impatience. “It’s not an issue.”…

Michael Sam is who he is, and he will do what he does. That, in itself, will be enough. For all the things in our country and our discourse that are haywire and rotten and revanchist and wrong, there does seem to be some progress on this particular front — an increasing realization that gay people are best understood not as an exotic subspecies of humanity, but simply as people, if only because that is fundamentally and finally what they are.

By this same token, Michael Sam is not a gay football player so much as he is just a football player. This makes it that much more objectionable that those who sell this sort of idiot sizzle continue to do it in blithe disregard of how foul this abstraction truly is. It makes the casually backwards and proudly ignorant fake-pragmatism of those anonymous NFL personnel types look even worse. But there will, when it comes time for Michael Sam to play football, be no place to hide for any of that bullshit. He will flatten that abstraction simply by doing what he does while being who he is.

So here is a not-so-fearless prediction: Michael Sam’s impact upon clubhouse chemistry, and the locker room’s impact upon him, will not be an issue. He is not being dropped into the Hobbesian bro-scape of an NFL locker room from a teacher’s lounge or the break room at Big Lots. He is re-entering an environment in which he has spent much of his life on earth, and he is entering it as himself — that is, as a very good football player preparing to make the ascent that his talent has earned him. His teammates will see him as such, because that’s what he will be to them. The Senator from Utah will be more upset about there being some gay sailors on a submarine than anyone on that submarine will be; he can afford to be in a way that they can’t, if only because he is so much further from the thing itself…

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140 replies
  1. 1
    ruemara says:

    I do wonder if men understand just how horrible they think masculinity is if they think a gay man who showers near them is an uncontrollable assault machine. I also wonder at that fragile giant, the male ego, that they consider themselves to be such a hot hunk of man meat that a gay man witnessing their natural, soapy glory, will be driven to paroxysms of ecstatic desire from the mere sight.

  2. 2
    raven says:

    He will flatten that abstraction by flattening the shit out of the opposition.

  3. 3
    Comrade Jake says:

    Thanks for the props, Anne. If people have the time, the video at the NYT page is definitely worth watching too. Very inspiring young man.

  4. 4
    Cassidy says:

    @raven: Yeah, I keep waiting for the first openly gay male MMA fighter, especially if he’s good. I can only imagine the post fight comments.

  5. 5
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Cassidy: I thought there already was the first gay mma fighter.

  6. 6
    The Dangerman says:

    Sam is doing fine in terms of endorsement deals:

    http://www.fool.com/investing/.....out-i.aspx

  7. 7
    monkeyfister says:

    Gabba gabba gabba. Sports.
    Gabba gabba gabba.

    NFL will succumb to Teh Gey no matter what.

    It is the closed head injuries and the money in the “sport” that finally kills it.

    I’ll dance then.

    NFL Football– kill it with fire… Gay fire if need be. It’s useless.

  8. 8
    raven says:

    @monkeyfister: Stick that fist in your mouth and shut the fuck up.

  9. 9
    Wil says:

    @ruemara:

    I do wonder if men understand just how horrible they think masculinity is if they think a gay man who showers near them is an uncontrollable assault machine. I also wonder at that fragile giant, the male ego

    Seems to be more a conservative thing, not a ‘man’ or ‘male ego’ thing.

    Although I’ve never understood the group shower thing in the first place, gay or no gay.

  10. 10
    West of the Cascades says:

    This Dallas sports anchor comes closer to the central hypocrisy of the NFL, and the possibility that this is a redemptive or growth opportunity for a hell of a lot of people, in two minutes than ESPN talking heads will in two years. Great clip. Thanks.

  11. 11
    Cassidy says:

    @Suffern ACE: There are openly gay women. There is only one openly gay male fighter that I’m aware of, but he’s a lower tier journeyman. To my knowledge he was outed. I know there is at least one boxer who came out, but again, he’s not a real big name.

  12. 12
    kindness says:

    That’s funny. I figured pro football players bragged about last night’s conquest just like they did in the lower grades.

  13. 13
    monkeyfister says:

    @raven:

    When has a Sports stat ever made a difference in reality?

    It’s useless, sweety. Kisses!

  14. 14
    raven says:

    @monkeyfister: It only matters if you care, jackass.

  15. 15
    The Dangerman says:

    @West of the Cascades:

    …central hypocrisy of the NFL…

    Speaking of hypocrisy, Tim Tebow was roasted with regularity for cashing in on his devout nature…

    …and now, often by the very people that roasted Tebow, Sam is reaping the adulation (read: $$$) based on his personal life. Not very consistent, Team Left.

    As for Tebow, he was a terrible QB (I could see him in a wildcat, perhaps); I have no idea how Sam will turn out, but I hope it is on his football talent only.

  16. 16
    MikeJ says:

    @monkeyfister: So you want to get rid of music and novels and movies and all of the arts, or only the ones you don’t personally care for?

  17. 17
    raven says:

    @The Dangerman: Bullshit, his draft stock ($$$) wil go down because of this. Get a grip.

  18. 18
    raven says:

    Feb. 9, 2014, will one day be remembered as it should — as the day in which a young man described himself with pride and honesty.

    But make no mistake, it is also the day that Missouri defensive end Michael Sam’s stock in the NFL Draft began to drop because he announced he was gay. He was already sliding due to concerns over the dreaded ‘tweener label — with some scouts viewing him as too short for defensive end and a project to convert to stand-up linebacker following an inconsistent week at the Senior Bowl.

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/d.....-sams-fall

  19. 19
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @monkeyfister: Read up on the Hungary-USSR water polo match in the 1956 Olympics, a month after Soviet tanks rolled into Budapest to crush the revolution.

  20. 20
    Corner Stone says:

    @The Dangerman: Jesus Christ but you are an idiot.
    Tebow was an unworkable project as an NFL QB. The Broncos bought a bill of goods, for whatever reason.
    Michael Sam is a possible 3rd or 4th round pick who might make a few dollars in goodwill advertising on the side.

  21. 21
    raven says:

    @Corner Stone: I was wonderin where you were.

  22. 22
    Corner Stone says:

    @raven: He was always going to be a 3rd rounder at best. That has nothing to do with anything but his physical abilities.
    If he goes late 3rd, that’s reasonable. Anything into mid 4th or after is bullshit.

  23. 23
    Corner Stone says:

    @raven: Just got some crab fried rice fool!

  24. 24
    Corner Stone says:

    @raven: I have a couple hours to kill before my team in Doha comes online.
    Good times, bitchez!

  25. 25
    The Dangerman says:

    @raven:

    …his draft stock ($$$) wil go down because of this.

    Of course his draft stock will go down (which I decried the other day when this story broke, I might add)…

    …so, does that make it right for this young man to cash in to these deals? Maybe, maybe not…

    …but, again, back to my point – the same people that hated Tebow for being Devout are now openly adulating Sam. Maybe it’s because I’m trained to coldly crunch numbers (read: detachment, keep emotion out of it) but I find this behavior quite strange.

  26. 26
    Alison says:

    @ruemara: Yeah, there is a huge fucking egotrip going on, for someone to assume that just because a guy is attracted to men in general, he’s OBVIOUSLY going to be attracted to you in particular because HOW COULD ANYONE RESIST.

    Like, ugh, don’t flatter yourself, fuckface.

  27. 27
    raven says:

    @Corner Stone: You eat late.

  28. 28
    Corner Stone says:

    I’ve watched a small bit of film on Michael Sam, and I’m not sure he’s going to translate to the NFL.
    He’s no Melvin Ingram.

  29. 29
    some guy says:

    Sam and the Mizzou defense destroyed ye Olde Ballclub when they played us this year. He is a force, and some smart coach (Pete Carrol or Bill Belichek) will put the screws to management and demand to grab him by the 3rd or 4th round, if he’s still available.

  30. 30
    raven says:

    @The Dangerman: I find you to be thick as a fucking brick.

  31. 31
    MikeJ says:

    Why is nobody talking about how every sportswriter in America is going to sucking Derek Jeter’s dick from now until September?

    If people insist on being Yankees can’t they just do it in the privacy of their homes? Must they force it on the rest of us?

  32. 32
    karen says:

    Everyone has to be a guinea pig sometime. Jackie Robinson was the first black baseball player. Barack Obama is the first black President. Michael Sam may or may not end up being the first gay football player. But these brave and courageous people have blazed the trail for the next one. And like all guinea pigs, they’ve received death threats and disrespect by bigots who prefer it if the “wrong” kind don’t participate in THEIR world.

    That just makes me respect the trailblazing guinea pigs all the more.

  33. 33
    karen says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I’m not that familiar with football, who is Melvin Ingram?

  34. 34
    some guy says:

    @Corner Stone:

    SEC Defensive Player of the Year. there is the SEC, and then there is all the other, lesser, conferences.

  35. 35
    The Dangerman says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Jesus Christ but you are an idiot.

    And you’re an asshole; now that we have the name calling out of the way….

    Tebow was an unworkable project as an NFL QB.

    Did I not say this? I think I said this. He was terrible as a QB I think were my exact words (adding that he might be workable as a wildcat, but that formation is/was mostly a one trick pony kinda thing)….

    …but the attacks on Tebow were mostly, if not overwhelmingly, personal by some people. Do you not recall the flaming over “Tebowing”? I’ll be happy (not really) to go look for you (no, really, NOT really).

  36. 36
    raven says:

    @The Dangerman: So tell me again how getting less money is taking advantage?

  37. 37
    Corner Stone says:

    @The Dangerman: Go look all you want. My unemotional assessment of Tebow had everything to do with his mechanics, and nothing to do with his “off the field” issues.
    I’m on record as saying a sun dial was faster than his throwing motion.
    I don’t give a damn about the Tebowing stuff or his commercials or anything else.

  38. 38
    The Dangerman says:

    @raven:

    I find you to be thick as a fucking brick.

    OK, fuck you, too; now, just as with stone, we’ve got the name calling out of the way, perhaps we can talk about the odd behavior I’m witnessing (i.e., the odd adulation of Sam).

    I’ll say the same as I said the other day. I want Sam to have the same rights as anyone and I want him judged on his football talent alone. I could give a shit if he is gay (I don’t think I ever gave a shit that Tebow, or anyone else for that matter, was a Christian).

  39. 39
    Roger Moore says:

    @raven:

    He was already sliding due to concerns over the dreaded ‘tweener label — with some scouts viewing him as too short for defensive end and a project to convert to stand-up linebacker following an inconsistent week at the Senior Bowl.

    There’s some suspicion that the reason his stock started dropping with scouts is that they found about his sexuality before his official announcement. And, FWIW, John Elway has come out on the record as saying he’s not going to shy away from Sam just because he’s gay, so he’s likely to get drafted unless he completely stinks up the combine or Elway is unwilling to put his money where his mouth is.

  40. 40
    Corner Stone says:

    @some guy: Not saying the kid can’t play. He’s a stud. That’s flat out.
    But he’s going to have to drop back off the D-Line and run splits and cover tight ends (no puns, please) and generally play heads up, instead of hand down.
    He’s good. But he’s not a certain prospect and I think 3rd round-ish makes sense for some teams to take a chance and see what kind of work they can get out of him.

  41. 41
    The Dangerman says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I don’t give a damn about the Tebowing stuff or his commercials or anything else.

    I didn’t mean you specifically (or anyone else on this board, per se)…

    …but if you don’t recall the issues over Tebowing from the Left, you weren’t listening.

  42. 42
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @The Dangerman: Isn’t there a bit of difference between being the first openly gay NFL prospect and being the 1000th openly Christian NFL prospect? I don’t follow football, so educate me.

  43. 43
    Corner Stone says:

    @karen: Former stud player for South Carolina Gamecocks now with San Diego Chargers.
    Similar physical build to Michael Sam, but Ingram has a crazy ass motor and just played every down he could get on the field, including special teams and offense once in a while.

  44. 44
    The Dangerman says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Isn’t there a bit of difference between being the first openly gay NFL prospect and being the 1000th openly Christian NFL prospect?

    Actrually, no, not really…

    …maybe a very, VERY little bit (imagine thumb and index fingers minimally apart), but certainly not to the level of attention this has reached.

  45. 45
    Suffern ACE says:

    Oh. I woke up this morning feeling so consistent, but now I just feel kind of off.

  46. 46
    Baud says:

    OT: Comcast is buying Time Warner.

    There can be only one (cable company).

  47. 47
    jl says:

    @The Dangerman:

    ” but I hope it is on his football talent only. ”

    It will be, just as Tebow made his run in the NFL on his football talent only, which was not wide or deep enough to last long as a starter.

    ” …but if you don’t recall the issues over Tebowing from the Left, you weren’t listening. ”

    And if Sam starts dancing gay pride tributes on the field and sprinkling it all over his football interviews, that will get old very quickly, and people will make fun, I assure you.

  48. 48
    Botsplainer says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I’m on record as saying a sun dial was faster than his throwing motion.

    Like a stiffer, more spastic version of Gumby. The mechanics of him making the effort to throw always confused me.

  49. 49
    some guy says:

    @Corner Stone:

    But he’s going to have to drop back off the D-Line and run splits and cover tight ends (no puns, please) and generally play heads up, instead of hand down.

    clearly, you weren’t watching his play in the loss against the Gamecocks and the win against the Aggies.

  50. 50
    Cassidy says:

    I love me some Jesus Christ, Superstar.

  51. 51
    The Dangerman says:

    @jl:

    …which was not wide or deep enough to last long as a starter.

    …which, if memory serves, was only one season and only because the starter (Cutler?) went down to injury.

    Personally, I was shocked when Tebow went in Round 1 (but figured the people that get paid really well knew better than me but that didn’t work out so well for them). Also, I found the whole bowing thing in the end zone rather disrespectful (there’s a time and a place for everything)…

    …but, again (and I would have thought this thought wouldn’t be all that controversial, so maybe I am thick as a brick), I think the adulation being tossed at Sam is odd.

  52. 52
    Corner Stone says:

    @some guy: I watched the Gamecocks game, I guarantee.
    I’m not knocking the kid. He’s a real talent. That has to be at least the 5th time I have said that.
    But I’ll stick with my 3rd round-ish draft prediction.

    Of course, I lost $100 betting Tebow would not go before the 4th round, so…yeah.

  53. 53
    MattR says:

    @ruemara:

    I do wonder if men understand just how horrible they think masculinity is if they think a gay man who showers near them is an uncontrollable assault machine. I also wonder at that fragile giant, the male ego, that they consider themselves to be such a hot hunk of man meat that a gay man witnessing their natural, soapy glory, will be driven to paroxysms of ecstatic desire from the mere sight.

    From what I can tell the homophobic backlash essentially amounts to guys freaking out about the possibility of being subject to the same types of behavior that they subject women to every day (and which they expect women to absorb without complaint)

  54. 54
    Mnemosyne says:

    @The Dangerman:

    …but, again, back to my point – the same people that hated Tebow for being Devout are now openly adulating Sam.

    Are we remembering the same Tim Tebow? Because the reason I remember people hating Tebow was because he was Tebowing all over the sidelines like he was God’s Chosen Quarterback but didn’t have the skills to back it up.

    Tebow got the shit he did because he was overrated and yet treated like he was going to be the next big star because he was God’s Chosen One. And hey, look, he actually was unable to cut it in the NFL, just like his critics said.

  55. 55
    Botsplainer says:

    @Baud:

    OT: Comcast is buying Time Warner.

    There can be only one (cable company).

    Fuck. Really? TW snatched mine up, and I thought I spotted speed degradation immediately.

  56. 56
    Corner Stone says:

    @The Dangerman: This is not only planets apart in difference, but possibly universes apart.
    Every damn fool for the last 40 years has pointed to God in His Heaven after a TD or TD pass, and celebrated Jesus Christ as His savior after a victory.
    This is a stupid statement on your part. But after reading your comments over the last few days…not a surprisingly stupid one any longer.
    Get over it, amigo.

  57. 57
    Alison says:

    @The Dangerman: Wait…seriously? You really think there;s barely any difference culturally, symbolically, etc between the first out gay NFL player and a Christian who prayed a lot? What exact world do you live in?

  58. 58
    Corner Stone says:

    @MattR:

    possibility of being subject to the same types of behavior that they subject women to every day

    I wonder. If a woman asks another woman to describe some guy they know, do they talk about his cheekbones, his flat stomach, his cute butt?

  59. 59
    jl says:

    @Corner Stone:

    ” cover tight ends (no puns, please) ”

    This stuff is the real danger that Sam poses for the NFL. But it ain’t his fault.

    Commenters will have have to reach some kind of honorable agreement to refrain from puns and double entendres, and refrain from pointing out potential material and asking others to refrain.

    I will rely on Bill OReilly to be the cop that stops it. He will be up your nose, buddy.

  60. 60
    Baud says:

    @Botsplainer:

    WSJ. Reporting $45 billion deal.

  61. 61
    Botsplainer says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I wonder. If a woman asks another woman to describe some guy they know, do they talk about his cheekbones, his flat stomach, his cute butt?

    None of that – they talk about his bank balance.

  62. 62
    Corner Stone says:

    @Botsplainer: Heyooooo!!
    /Ed McMahon

  63. 63
    jl says:

    @MattR:

    ” From what I can tell the homophobic backlash essentially amounts to guys freaking out about the possibility of being subject to the same types of behavior that they subject women to every day (and which they expect women to absorb without complaint) ”

    A lot of guys will have a difficult time, a very very difficult time working through that logic.

    @Corner Stone: We guys believe we know exactly what they talk about. We sincerely hope and pray, and freak out at the mere hypothetical that is not just the biggest thing ever.

  64. 64
    Botsplainer says:

    @Baud:

    WSJ. Reporting $45 billion deal.

    Is this one of those deals that requires DOJ approval due to antitrust concerns?

  65. 65
    Corner Stone says:

    @jl: Are you kidding me? The whole genre of NFL commentary is rife with homosexual double entendres.
    That would be like asking Duke graduates to stop making smugly incomprehensible comments.

  66. 66
    Honus says:

    @some guy: he was the SEC Defensive Player of the Year. That’s pretty much the next highest award to NFL defensive player of the year. And he won that after he came out to his teammates.

  67. 67
    SatanicPanic says:

    @The Dangerman: Tebow is an ass, he deserved to get roasted. Duh.

  68. 68
    jl says:

    @Botsplainer:

    ” they talk about his bank balance.”

    Damn. I didn’t know that was another word for it.

    I larn me sumpin every day.

  69. 69
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    he was Tebowing all over the sidelines like he was God’s Chosen Quarterback but didn’t have the skills to back it up.

    And this is a pretty big problem. You can put on the arrogant ass schtick if you can back it up on the field. Tebow could not, which is why there were oceans of Schadenfreude when he failed. The Christianist aspect of it was particularly galling, in that it’s very un Jesus of Nazareth like. It is, however, very Jeebus, son of Mammon like, and Mammon is the true deity of the fundigelicals.

  70. 70
    Honus says:

    @Corner Stone: “That would be like asking Duke graduates to stop making smugly incomprehensible comments.”

    No need to bash Burns on this.

  71. 71
    Darkrose says:

    @The Dangerman: Nobody hated Tebow for being devout. People hated the coverage of Tebow because ESPN literally became the “All Tebow, All the Time” channel.

  72. 72
    Corner Stone says:

    @jl:

    We guys believe we know exactly what they talk about.

    Ha. Woman are far fucking dirtier than us weak minded males could ever conceive.
    They are venal, petty and more vindictive then we could have imagined.
    And thank goodness, I say.

  73. 73
    jl says:

    @Corner Stone: I could live without American football, so it would hilarious to me if the sport collapsed from a gay double entendre avoidance induced communication crisis.

    I was watching clips of the CFL a few days ago. I think like the CFL play better anyway. We can watch that instead.

  74. 74
    some guy says:

    @Corner Stone:

    yeah, it was the Gamecocks game where I first saw him on TV after he and Mizzou beat our ass. as I noted above, as SEC D Player, I would have guessed 2nd round, but I am woefully ignorant of who will go when, so who knows

  75. 75
    Culture of Truth says:

    I caught about 5 minutes of Mike Francesa discussing this. He came across a reasonable asshole. Not phobic, or dickish, but an asshole. For example, in those 5 minutes, he speculated that Sam might not be gay, but “recruited”; that his coming was well planned, “orchestrated” a cheap transparent ploy to get rich, to get endorsements, that Sam is a phony, that’s he playing the media — this part was not speculation — he was certain of it. Other aspects, whether Sam is just a con man etc., Francesa would speculate and that “I just don’t know” like Jake Tapper asking of the President “Race Baiter in Chief?” QUESTION MARK???

    and that was all in 5 minutes… I couldn’t take any more.

  76. 76
    MomSense says:

    @Cassidy:
    At least we finally know what happened to Cole’s mustard.

  77. 77
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Back in the late 1940s, the danger of whites and blacks showering together was one of the reasons why you couldn’t desegregate the Armed Forces.

    If you look at a lot of the arguments against just ignoring if someone is gay in the military, they’re pretty much the same as the arguments made about racial desegregation of the military.

  78. 78
    The Dangerman says:

    @Alison:

    What exact world do you live in?

    A world where I couldn’t give a shit where someone is Gay or someone is a Christian; I think my world is a nice world and would hope others might find it equally appealing…

    …and, obviously, the world where I try to live isn’t at all reflected by how the world really works but I at least try to keep things in perspective (and, as confessed earlier, perhaps I’m just by training and/or nature a cold fucker, but I’ve also worked with a sizable number of out Gays and, perhaps, all that emotion has been stripped away from me over the years). I’d endeavor to treat Sam (or any Gay NFL’er) the same way I treated Tebow. I think I’ve succeeded (so far) but, in holding up a mirror to others, I surely got jumped. Oh, well.

    Time for the Olympics my end.

    (PS I think this reply answers Stone’s or Ravens post, too).

  79. 79
    Corner Stone says:

    @Honus:

    No need to bash Burns on this.

    Is there ever a reason not to? I say no. No, there is never a reason not to.

  80. 80
    jl says:

    @Culture of Truth: If Sam is no good in the NFL, I predict he will not make even doodly squat (is that OK?) $ from endorsements or first-gay-NFL-Player payola.

  81. 81
    Baud says:

    @Botsplainer:

    It will require DOJ and FCC approval. The problem for these agencies is that these companies operate in different locations and therefore don’t directly compete. Makes it much harder to evaluate.

  82. 82
    Honus says:

    @MikeJ: I think the phrase you’re looking for is “ramming it down our throats”

  83. 83
    raven says:

    @The Dangerman: Bullshit X3

  84. 84
    Botsplainer says:

    @jl:

    I was watching clips of the CFL a few days ago. I think like the CFL play better anyway. We can watch that instead.

    I’ve long felt like you can cut down on head/neck injuries by adopting CFL field dimensions and rules, along with going back to a less protective helmet.

  85. 85
    The Dangerman says:

    @Darkrose:

    Nobody hated Tebow for being devout.

    You can’t be serious.

    No, really, I need to go prep for tube and lube (the Olympics have mostly sucked, but I’m not interested in the things Prime Time is interested in, but drinking always works).

  86. 86
    Belafon says:

    I step away and it’s on the front page. Cool.

  87. 87
    some guy says:

    @Alison:

    the thing about an “OUT” Christianist like Tim was he didn’t save it for the huddle after the game, that bipartisan public kneeling thing the networks always make a point of showing in a wide shot and quickly cut away from for a one-on-one inteview on the sidelines, but instead young Tim wore Jesus on his sleeve as a Thank You Jesus brand. I think he just got caught up in the hype, and he felt it allowed him to “get his message out” but in a somewhat similar way to the dynamics of Sam. rebow (and TebowMania viewers) are the “persecuted minority” in their own minds.

    of course, coming OUT as a God Fearing rightwing Jesus freak in Denver carries a somewhat different valence than what we think of as coming out as gay before the NFL Draft.

  88. 88
    Corner Stone says:

    @The Dangerman: No, you just seem stupid and not really sure what reality entails now a days.

  89. 89
    MattR says:

    @Corner Stone: These guys have no clue. I am sure that they think women are different and more refined. They just know the terrible thoughts that go through their head when they see a hot woman and they are horrified that some man might be having those same thoughts about them. (And they would probably be horrified to discover that women really can be just as filthy as men)

    @The Dangerman: Tebow definitely got some abuse for being a devout Christian, but I think a lot of it was more the result of how his supporters acted. (EDIT: It is not like this is the first time American Christians have felt persecuted when they don’t get everything they want) I could definitely be wrong but I don’t see gay activists acting the same way with Sam, demanding that he receive playing time when he is less qualified. They seem to only want him to be given a fair shake.

    @Botsplainer: I don’t know that the NFL can ever really expand the dimensions of the field due to restrictions with the size of current stadiums. There are too many that would need to be rebuilt or massively renovated

  90. 90
    Corner Stone says:

    @some guy:

    carries a somewhat different valence than what we think of as coming out as gay before the NFL Draft.

    Yeah, Sam just lit real money on fire.
    Someone tell me that Tebow being an openly religious person through NCAA play hurt his draft status?
    Anyone?
    Anyone going to say his being drafted in the 1st round is proof that this is the same as any other scenario?

  91. 91
    The Dangerman says:

    @raven:

    Bullshit X3

    Really? How sad. I’m not allowed to like the world I try to live in? All the Gays I’ve worked with (and have as friends) would be rather surprised at your claims of “bullshit”.

  92. 92
    jl says:

    @Botsplainer: yeah. I liked the quicker tempo of the game with less time between snaps, effect of the bigger field, and the one yard offset for the line.

    I played a lot of intramural flag football and college (no I wasn’t a frustrated frat rat getting vicarious BS off his chest, I just thought it was fun, I was in the hippie dippy league in college). Anyway, the way they lineup made the game I watched much more familiar to me, I guess because it was more like the game I played.

    Overall, less unnecessary human ballistic missile stuff, but enough reasonable stuff to make for thrills and action.

    Edit: I also read that the CFL does not, repeat, does NOT, stop action for commercials. Hard to believe, but if true, that helps the tempo of the game too, at least for me.

  93. 93
    The Dangerman says:

    @Corner Stone:

    No, you just seem stupid…

    Dude, two Masters Degrees says you are wrong.

    Of course, that is what I am; what I “seem” over a blog could be entirely different. As if I care…

  94. 94
    Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader says:

    Whoa, Tim Tebow is gay?

  95. 95
    Joel says:

    @The Dangerman: Remind me again, how much money did Sam receive for his appearance in the Human Rights Commission’s Superbowl ad? I’ll wait.

  96. 96
    Corner Stone says:

    @The Dangerman: That’s fine. But I’m personally ok with my reading of your comments as not being very high quality.
    You’ve been complaining about Sam coming out and his monetizing his gayness for a few days now. The kid certainly isn’t going to make *more* money by making this statement ahead of the NFL draft.
    And it just seems bigoted, small and stupid to make the argument otherwise.

  97. 97
    MattR says:

    @jl: This is why you have to love the CFL :) Multiple punts on the same play.

  98. 98
    Corner Stone says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader: We’re all gay now.
    “Heyyy”

  99. 99
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @The Dangerman:

    George W. Bush holds an MBA from Harvard.

    Academic credentials are no guarantee of invulnerability to being called a dumb guy. You can look at a bunch of climate change denying idiots with doctorates for that.

  100. 100
    The Dangerman says:

    @Corner Stone:

    The kid certainly isn’t going to make *more* money by making this statement ahead of the NFL draft.

    I entirely disagree; he will cash in nicely even if he turns out to be a stiff as a football player.

    …my reading of your comments as not being very high quality.

    Dude, it’s fucking Balloon Juice; you want my dissertation here or just my ramblings about things like cats?

  101. 101
    Darkrose says:

    @The Dangerman: I must have missed the endless talk about how no one wanted a devout Christian in a locker room, or the slurs tossed at Tebow, or the comment sections that had to be closed because of the vitriol aimed at him. I don’t consider, “I am so sick of hearing about this guy” or even “this dude isn’t that good; he only gets attention because of his ostentatious Christianity” to count as hate.

  102. 102
    The Dangerman says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    George W. Bush holds an MBA from Harvard.

    You’re comparing me to George Bush? Now, THERE’S some fighting words.

    Now, really, I hear the music being played (Summer Olympics is more my thing than Winter Olympics, but it’s all still interesting).

  103. 103
    Belafon says:

    @The Dangerman: You’ve had the persecuted Christian complex here for a while. But there is no comparison in this case, as Corner Stone asked above:

    Someone tell me that Tebow being an openly religious person through NCAA play hurt his draft status?

    The reason Sam made this announcement now was for two reasons:
    1. To control the release because it was going to happen anyway.
    2. To make it before the draft and tryouts because he wanted everyone to know it.
    Based on the history of gay players and supporters, he’s not doing it to make money.

  104. 104
    Corner Stone says:

    @The Dangerman:

    I entirely disagree; he will cash in nicely even if he turns out to be a stiff as a football player.

    So, there actually *is* a gay mafia?
    This is fucking stupid. When was the last time you saw Wade Davis, Jason Collins, Greg Louganis or Brian Boitano pitching something on your TV?

  105. 105
    some guy says:

    @Darkrose:

    in fact, the Florida Times-Union (the Jax paper) is filled with LTE and comments about how the Jags are insane not to have signed/sign Tebow to a contract today.TODAY!!!!!!!!!!

    talk about ugly vitriol :-)

  106. 106
    jonas says:

    @The Dangerman: Sigh. That would be a relevant comparison if Sam made a point of sashaying out onto the field each game to a thumping house beat in ass-less chaps and a feather boa. Nobody cared that Tebow was a devout Christian — a lot of NFL players are; what people kind made fun of was the way he made his faith part of his NFL “brand” with his very public, very ostentatious religious gestures. And then sucked on top of that. A guy announcing yeah, I happen to be gay and I plan on playing NFL football is something completely different.

  107. 107
    Corner Stone says:

    @some guy: Shit, I actually agree. The Jags should sign him right F’ng now. And that’s no bullshit.
    If he was their QB last year they would have went 8-8.
    I absolutely believe that. In Jacksonville, Tebow puts butts in the seats ande he absolutely wins more games than Henne or that other fucking clown Gabbert.
    I mean,…Gabbert…isn’t that the perfect name for a French Mime/Clown ?

  108. 108
    Corner Stone says:

    @jonas:

    made a point of sashaying out onto the field each game to a thumping house beat in ass-less chaps and a feather boa

    *Faints*…then gets up and *Swoons*

  109. 109
    some guy says:

    @Corner Stone:

    as soon as Belichek let him go the Jags were idiots not to sign him. total sell outs all season, plus season ticket sales would have tripled.

    not too late :-)

  110. 110
    Darkrose says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I wonder. If a woman asks another woman to describe some guy they know, do they talk about his cheekbones, his flat stomach, his cute butt?

    If you asked me to describe my favorite Giants player, I’d have to say, “Well…he’s 6’5″ and 225, and he’s kind of homely–though he has a fantastic ass and a very attractive .289/.360/.841 line from last season.”

    So yes, I guess? Some women, anyway? I like a nice butt on a guy. I cannot lie.

  111. 111
    Darkrose says:

    @jonas: To be totally pedantic, all chaps are ass-less. That’s the whole point.

  112. 112
    jl says:

    @MattR: Thanks. That was goofy. I don’t know all the rules well enough to know it could get that goofy. I like that you can return a missed field goal try. I didn’t know there were situations where the teams kick the ball back and forth, for no apparent reason.

    But, I’m cool with that.

    Anything close to American football is going to have goofy rules that lead to goofy plays, and refs running around wondering WTF to do.

  113. 113
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Belafon: I’m going with no on the Dangerman is Christian. He sounds like of Buddhist to me. I mean, have you ever met a Christian whose hope and dream is for a world where being Christian doesn’t matter to anyone? I would think that for Christians, it matters a great deal. It’s a rather bland world he strives for, one where nothing that matters to anyone actually matters.

  114. 114
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @jonas: Aren’t chaps assless by definition?

    ETA: Beaten to the punch.

  115. 115
    Corner Stone says:

    @Darkrose:

    “Well…he’s 6’5″ and 225, and he’s kind of homely–though he has a fantastic ass and a very attractive .289/.360/.841 line from last season.”

    See? We’re not so different after all! Because that guy’s stats have me salivating. The fantastic ass is just a bonus.

  116. 116
    Suffern ACE says:

    @MattR: could definitely be wrong but I don’t see gay activists acting the same way with Sam, demanding that he receive playing time when he is less qualified.

    That would be kind of a weird demand since he hasn’t even be drafted yet. But yeah, I’m going to expect that if he is drafted and ends up spending time on special teams like a lot of rookies do that there will be some kind of grumbling about that.

  117. 117
    Corner Stone says:

    Ahem. If anyone wants to sell me an entire roster of players who have a .290/.360/.800 stat line? Please contact Astros, post haste.
    Cute butts are not essential, but they are preferred.

  118. 118
    Corner Stone says:

    Holy shit. Senator Kay Hagan is freakin’ hot.
    When did that happen?

  119. 119
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Corner Stone: Maybe the Astros should sign her. There are very few positions on that team where she wouldn’t increase WAR when she played.

  120. 120
    Corner Stone says:

    @Suffern ACE: Ooooo…ouch.
    Fucking Astros.

  121. 121
    AnotherBruce says:

    @The Dangerman: The difference between Tebow and Michael Sam is this: Michael Sam’s NFL stock is very arguably going down because he’s gay. (We won’t know for sure until the combine and the draft.) Tim Tebow’s stock very inarguably went up because he is a “Christian”. He was a quarterback who really could not throw the ball with any degree of accuracy who got drafted in the first round. Does the fact that I think this is a profound injustice mean I hate Tebow for being a Christian? No, I hate the idea that a quarterback who can’t throw the damn ball is worthy of a first round pick because “all he does is win” and he’s such a high character guy. In short, I’m pissed at all these cowardly NFL front office guys who had no problem with Tebow, but seem to have a problem with Sam, because he will be a “distraction” Really? WTF else was Tebow but a distraction

  122. 122
    BethanyAnne says:

    Hitchcock? Holy shit, that’s right near where Dad came from, and where I lived from 3-8, Texas City.

  123. 123
    Suffern ACE says:

    Well, I mean NFL teams just aren’t used to fans demanding that players be benched so that more popular players can play, especially at positions like quarterback or running back.Or anyone who made a great preseason play once in the 3rd quarter against another team’s third string and now you’re team 1-5 and why doesn’t that know nothing defensive coordinator use the talent better. Its the kind of distraction that teams just never experience.

  124. 124
    Citizen Alan says:

    @The Dangerman:

    Speaking of hypocrisy, Tim Tebow was roasted with regularity for cashing in on his devout nature…

    Really? I honestly can’t remember anyone bashing Tebow for making money from endorsements and the like. IIRC, the main objections were that he was overrated as a QB, that he cheerfully allowed himself to be used as a marketing tool for anti-choice groups, and that he was so sanctimonious that he invented what was basically a new style of praying which became named after himself.

  125. 125
    BethanyAnne says:

    TC is almost never in the news. Unless a refinery explodes. Which happens with some regularity.

  126. 126
    Citizen Alan says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Personally, I DO hope Tebow gets signed somewhere. As I’ve said before, every day he continues to play football delays the day he gets into Republican politics, and unlike football, he can do some real damage as a lunk-headed Christianist Congressman from Gainesville, Florida, which would reelect him until he died or got caught with an underage boy.

  127. 127
    gwangung says:

    @The Dangerman: Dude, if the shoe fits, wear it.

    Cause you’re saying a LOT of awfully dumb things.

  128. 128
    GHayduke (formerly lojasmo) says:

    @The Dangerman:

    I imagine Sam won’t be symbolizing his sexuality after every successful play, as Teabow did.

  129. 129
    brantl says:

    @raven: Why? The bad aspects of football are freaking lethal. He’s not wrong. Period. Face the facts, Raven.

  130. 130
    Snarla says:

    I love watching men explain how women think.

    Or do I? Some man please tell me.

  131. 131
    Cassidy says:

    People forget that Tebow was just being himself. That “aw shucks” shit wasn’t a schtick. His parents are complete assholes, but Tebow himself is a pretty nice guy. He never sought the spotlight or the martyrdom; he just wanted to play football. It was the people who held him up as the second coming of Jeebus that turned him into a punchline.

  132. 132
    brantl says:

    @The Dangerman Sorry, I think I can speak for most people in saying our problem with Tebowing was that he felt the need to thank god for giving him personally yardage, or a touchdown. But then, having seen the quality of his play, it isn’t really unreasonable that he thinks god must have intervened, because on his own talent, he probably would have got very little of the yardage, or touchdowns. I’ve only seen him accidentally, it’s the only way I see football, but even I know he sucks. It wasn’t ever personal with me; he made a public display of his “devotion”, and I thought it was hilarious when the opposition did the same thing, when sacking him. He’s a douche, plain and simple. :

  133. 133
    Cassidy says:

    @Snarla: Think? Don’t worry your pretty little head about that.

  134. 134
    john (not mccain) says:

    @The Dangerman:

    It’s interesting that someone with 2 (count ’em) Masters thinks there’s an infinitesimal difference between something that’s never happened before and something that’s happend hundreds of times. It certainly does make one question the value of higher education!

  135. 135
    David in NY says:

    @brantl: Might I add that anybody who believes that an omniscient, omnipotent God, who by definition can do no evil, busies himself picking the winners of professional football games or the players who will have the most successful careers is a little weak in the head.

  136. 136
    TerryC says:

    @Wil: “Although I’ve never understood the group shower thing in the first place, gay or no gay.”

    1. Their biggest fear is that they might get a stiffy and feel humiliated, since there would be no girls around to blame it on.

    2. But they can’t admit that fear, so they talk about gays being turned on by their naked bodies.

    a. And acting toward them as they would to women in similar circumstances.

    But it’s really #1.

    It’s always projection. This example has a projection wrapped in a projection :)

  137. 137
    Ecks says:

    And the night after he comes out, he drops 50 points in the CBS poll too. Just a part of their big planned reshuffle, y’understand.

  138. 138
    Stu says:

    I am a rabid atheist, and I know a lot of rabid atheists. Neither me or anyone I know had a problem with Tebow being Christian (if we did, we wouldn’t be able to make it through a single episode of SportsCenter with everyone praying for injured players — for now, let’s just disregard the fact that God chose for them to be injured to begin with).

    People like me had a problem with him appearing in blatantly misogynistic political ads. People like me had a problem with him being a shitty Christian to begin with (Matthew 6:5-6 says hello).

    If Sam goes into a full-on Village People dance after putting on a Liberace-bad bejazzled codpiece after every play, come talk to me. Until then, you can take your idiotic lack of self-awareness, apathetic unawareness of Christian exceptionalism and sad-sack attempts at false equivalence and stick them right up your fucking ass.

    That is all.

  139. 139
    Paul in KY says:

    @some guy: The whole problem, though, is that you have to switch out the other QBs as well, as you have to have the ‘Tebow Offense ™’ for Tim & you can’t have the backups only able to play the ‘standard offense’.

  140. 140
    Paul in KY says:

    @Snarla: I’m going to go with: No, you really don’t.

    Did I win?

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