Jesus Saved My Baby!

You get what you pay for:

The 17-month-old daughter of a North Carolina parenting columnist is expected to recover after her 3-year-old brother shot her with his father’s gun.

Cleveland County Sheriff’s Capt. Joel Shores said that 911 dispatchers received reports that a child had suffered a gunshot wound at around 11:30 a.m. on Thursday morning, according to the Gaston Gazette.

Justin Carper, who is a youth church leader and writes an unpaid parenting column for the Shelby Star, said that he never imagined that his son could have climbed on a stool and and then taken the gun from a “secret compartment” on top of his dresser.

The good news is that it sounds like the kid is going to live. Of course, this shithead is treating an act caused by his abject stupidity and irresponsibility as still more evidence that Baby Jesus smiles on us all:

Carper called it a “miracle” when the girl was able to use the injured arm to feed herself in the hospital later that night.

“It went through the top of her shoulder,” he explained to the Gaston Gazette. “She was feeding herself using that shoulder, using that arm. The bullet went straight through. You wouldn’t even know. Doctor after doctor have told us that there’s nowhere else the bullet could have gone that would have ended up with this story.”

If you want me to believe in miracles, let me know when thick-headed God botherers like Justin Carper lock up their fucking guns. When that day comes, I’ll be happy to treat a newfound Christian love of gun safety as a clear sign of divine intercession, declare myself born again, and undergo the sacred rite of full immersion baptism. But I’m not holding my breath waiting for that glorious day, because as this case clearly shows, God might be able to keep a 3 year-old from blowing his baby sister’s brains out, but He can’t get an idiot like Reverend Carper to buy a gun safe or a trigger lock.

(via)

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183 replies
  1. 1
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    It’s just depressing, and infuriating. I got nothing.

  2. 2

    I am sure prosecutors will say the family suffered enough and not prosecute. Seems like prosucutors need less authroity to make these calls.

  3. 3
    muricafukyea says:

    Spoiler alert,

    Olympic stadium torch was lit by Putin taking out a flame thrower and setting a rounded up gay on fire. Teh gay was then catapulted up into the torch bowl. Quite spectacular.

  4. 4
    LanceThruster says:

    Praise Jeebus!

    We’re all very lucky the Super Bowl was over because sometimes God gets distracted fine-tuning the point spread.

  5. 5
    Thor Heyerdahl says:

    @muricafukyea: That’s about the most coherent thing I’ve seen you ever post here.

  6. 6
    c u n d gulag says:

    Hold on there!
    In all fairness, maybe it WAS a miracle!

    After all, now that the Superb Own is over, God and Jesus might actually have some more time to help defenseless childr…

    Oh, yeah – never mind.

    The NBA’s season is around the mid-point.
    College BB’s getting ready for March Madness.
    The Olympics are getting into full swing.
    And Spring Training’s right around the corner.

    Ok. So, since God and Jesus are so obsessed with sports, maybe it was a “miracle” of physics.
    Or, maybe just dumb luck – emphasis on the DUMB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  7. 7
    kc says:

    “God, should I keep a loaded handgun in my house with young children? Just give me a sign, God. Any little sign . . .”

  8. 8
    Mandalay says:

    Speaking of gun nuts, one of the kids in the car in the Florida “rap music too loud” murder testified this morning…..

    Tevin Thompson, who was in the Dodge Durango when Davis, 17, was shot, testified that he and driver Tommie Stornes picked up Davis and Leland Brunson earlier on the day of the shooting. The quartet topped by the Gate gas station to buy gum and cigarettes.

    Asked to describe Davis’ demeanor: “He was happy. Just a normal day.”

    Stornes parked and entered the gas station, while the others played loud rap music. Dunn pulled up shortly afterward, parking his car so close to the SUV that Thompson said he couldn’t have exited his front-passenger door.

    Thompson testified that Dunn said; “Turn your music down. I can’t hear myself think,” and he appeared upset and a little angry. Thompson turned down the volume — but Davis said, “(Expletive) that. Turn the music back up.” So he did.

    Davis and Dunn continued talking, and Thompson said Davis told Dunn, “(Expletive) you.” But Davis did not threaten Dunn, had nothing in his hands, and did not try to exit the vehicle, Thompson said.

    He said he heard Dunn ask Jordan, “Are you talking to me?” and then Dunn reached for his gun and fired at Davis’ door. Thompson ducked for cover

    Thompson said Davis was lying motionless in Leland’s arms, gasping for air.

    I know it’s Florida, but I still can’t see how this murdering asshole can walk.

  9. 9
    kc says:

    @The Other Bob:

    In South Carolina, parents will be prosecuted if their toddlers shoot themselves with the parents’ loaded gun. If the parents are black, that is. If they’re white, well, it was an unfortunate freak accident.

  10. 10
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Gun safes are for godless heathen gun owners like me. All the rest trust in Jesus. I just got done putting them up in preparation of my granddaughters impending visit this wkend.

  11. 11
    maximiliano furtive, formerly known as dr. bloor says:

    @Mandalay:

    I know it’s Florida, but I still can ‘t see how this murdering asshole can walk.

    They’ll come up with something, I’m sure.

  12. 12
    Mandalay says:

    @kc:

    If they’re white, well, it was an unfortunate freak accident.

    “Tragedy” is the preferred term when white kids die.

  13. 13
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Mandalay:

    I know it’s Florida, but I still can ‘t see how this murdering asshole can walk.

    Because the only thing Dunn has to prove in a Florida court is that he, personally, felt threatened. Not that it was a reasonable fear, or that a reasonable person in the same position would have felt threatened, but that he felt threatened in that moment.

    That’s why he’s going to get off, just like Zimmerman did. It’s how Florida law is set up.

  14. 14
    jibeaux says:

    Clay Aiken’s running against a useless lady who left her unlocked-up guns in her unlocked garage where they got liberated for freedom, so our collective cup is not exactly runnething over with brains.

  15. 15
    voncey says:

    @kc: It was God’s warning shot.

  16. 16
    feebog says:

    In the meantime, hundreds of children die every from these kind of “accidents” every year. This moron was fortunate enough to have his child live. Lots of other families aren’t so lucky. They all share one trait in common; stupidity.

  17. 17
    LanceThruster says:

    @kc:

    If they’re white, well, it was an unfortunate freak accident

    “Will of God” even.

  18. 18
    jl says:

    @maximiliano furtive, formerly known as dr. bloor:

    ” Gun safes are for godless heathen gun owners like me. ”

    Gun safes are commie. I have gun fancier (I think ‘nut’ is a better word, but I try to be civil) kin in NV, they keep their guns in a gun safe, that kind of reminds me of a mini Fort Knox. They belong to the DemocRAT party. Case closed.

    They also do not believe roaring around with a loaded gun is not the optimal approach to initial investigations of sundry noises and other minor oddesses observed on their property. Which is unChristian, as well as commie.

    The story in the post is terrible, and I’m glad the infant will recover.

    I suppose the NRA will say the best answer to these tragedies is to enforce the laws, dammit, and charge the 3 year-old as an adult.

  19. 19
    Craig says:

    Every gun range and every gun show in central Florida I’ve been to requires you to unload your weapon before entering. At the gun shows, someone at the entrance takes your firearm and puts a tie wrap through the receiver so you have to cut the tie wrap to rack a round in the chamber.

    Which is why I shake my head when gun owners complain about businesses that don’t allow concealed carry on their premises.

  20. 20
    Amir Khalid says:

    @The Other Bob:
    The Sheriff’s Department is already hinting to them that they might want to consider it. From The Raw Story:

    “We’re compiling the case and will present the case to the D.A. to determine if any charges will be filed for failure to secure a firearm,” Sheriff’s Capt. Shores noted.

    “Regardless of the outcome, the parents have been punished more than any criminal justice system can do to them by this happening.”

  21. 21
    Paul in KY says:

    Circumstance is truly an amazing thing.

    Glad the little girl is OK.

  22. 22
    LanceThruster says:

    @voncey:

    Saw a poster mention this Steven Wright joke a while back.

    When two airplanes almost collide why do they call it a near miss? It sounds like a near hit to me!

  23. 23
    jrg says:

    Well, in his defense, it is pretty inconceivable that a three-year-old might climb up on a stool.

  24. 24
    LanceThruster says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    “Regardless of the outcome, the parents have been punished more than any criminal justice system can do to them by this happening.”

    They also let kids who murder their parents go because it’s so sad that they’re now orphans.

  25. 25
    Ruckus says:

    @jl:

    I suppose the NRA will say the best answer to these tragedies is to enforce the laws, dammit, and charge the 3 year-old as an adult.

    Wrong, wrong, wrong. The NRA will answer that if the 17 month old had had her own gun, this would never have happened.
    Remember, it’s always about selling more guns. Always.

  26. 26
    shelly says:

    That’s why he’s going to get off, just like Zimmerman did. It’s how

    Hey, just realized it’s been a while since we’ve heard of some Zimmerman screw-up

  27. 27
    LanceThruster says:

    @kc:

    Dear Lord: The gods have been good to me. For the first time in my life, everything is absolutely perfect just the way it is. So here’s the deal: You freeze everything the way it is, and I won’t ask for anything more. If that is OK, please give me absolutely no sign. OK, deal. In gratitude, I present you this offering of cookies and milk. If you want me to eat them for you, give me no sign. Thy will be done.

    ~ Homer Simpson

  28. 28
    Calouste says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Sounds like the girl doesn’t count.

    So what if the parents “forget” to strap a kid in a safety seat and it gets injured? Do they also “have been punished enough already”?

  29. 29
    Paul in KY says:

    @jl: If the 17 month old had been armed, well that’d be a different story (says NRA).

  30. 30
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @kc: Unless it was a black person holding/owning the gun.

  31. 31
    LanceThruster says:

    @jrg:

    No one could have anticipated…

  32. 32
    Cervantes says:

    @jibeaux: “runnething over”

    Love it.

  33. 33
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Carper called it a “miracle” when the girl was able to use the injured arm to feed herself in the hospital later that night.

    The cretinous stoopid.

    IT BURNS!

  34. 34
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @shelly: Don’t worry, it will be on Pay per View. He’s going to climb into a boxing ring with a black guy.

  35. 35
  36. 36
    PurpleGirl says:

    From the story:

    “Regardless of the outcome, the parents have been punished more than any criminal justice system can do to them by this happening.”

    No, the father needs to experience some jail time, as an encouragement to think things through.

    The stupidity of many people burns, burns with the white hot heat of a thousand suns.

  37. 37
    Amir Khalid says:

    @shelly:
    Haven’t you heard? The art thing didn’t pan out — he was caught plagiarising from a news photo — so now he’s fighting DMX in a “celebrity” boxing match.

  38. 38
    balconesfault says:

    Doctor after doctor have told us that there’s nowhere else the bullet could have gone that would have ended up with this story.”

    Ummm … how about if the bullet had missed altogether?

    OK – that wouldn’t have been as good a story, admittedly.

  39. 39
    The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik says:

    @LanceThruster:

    Carlin had a better take on that old joke, following up with:

    “A COLLISION is a near miss! ‘Oh look, dey nearly missed!’ ‘Yeah…but not quite!!’ Morbid but funny.

    In any case…gun fetishism…it just exhausts me now, for just how impenetrable and unassailable it is these days.

  40. 40
    Mandalay says:

    @Ruckus:

    Remember, it’s always about selling more guns. Always.

    This, a million times over.

    If you hear a statement from the NRA that causes you to wonder how any sane person could make such an outrageous claim, consider whether that statement might result in increased gun sales. There aren’t many crazy statements coming from the NRA if you follow that approach.

  41. 41
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:

    Dans ce pays-ci, il est bon de tuer de temps en temps un amiral enfant pour encourager les autres. Bet that 17-month-old grows up to be the most well-behaved young lady in East Jesus, so it was all worth it.

  42. 42
    balconesfault says:

    BTW – this is why I favor manditory insurance policies for gun ownership.

    Too many times stupid stuff like this happens, and the hospital or the state is left footing the bill.

  43. 43
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Mnemosyne: I hate the fucking SYG law, but that’s an inaccurate description of it. The “reasonable person” standard does apply; what’s missing from SYG that is present in more sane self-defense laws is the “duty to retreat.” I predicted (accurately) that Zimmerman would walk. I am just as certain Dunn will be convicted.

  44. 44
    _PK_ says:

    There are so many of these types of gun accidents that every now and then random chance will produce one of these so called miracles.

  45. 45
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @jrg:

    My mind reels with quotations from The Princess Bride.

  46. 46
    jl says:

    @Ruckus:

    ” The NRA will answer that if the 17 month old had had her own gun, this would never have happened. Remember, it’s always about selling more guns. Always.”

    Thank you for correcting me. I have said that so many times in comments, I have no excuse. I wasn’t thinking. My apologies.

  47. 47
    eric says:

    remember, you cant have freedom with out cracking a few eggs and what are children but fertilized eggs. praise jeebus and god bless america

  48. 48
    Glocksman says:

    Imagine the reaction if the kid had opened the ‘secret compartment’ and found the good Reverend’s porn stash.
    Then again, he probably keeps that locked up.

    Unlike his guns.
    Idiot.

  49. 49
    Violet says:

    Insurance companies need to get involved. Gun owners cost more money. They have a higher rate off injury by gun in their household and the gun can also damage property. Where are the homeowners insurance companies using actuarial tables to increase rates on gun owners?

  50. 50
    taylormattd says:

    Ugh

  51. 51
    eric says:

    @Violet: i wonder if we could file a class action lawsuit against gun manufacturers for not making their products safer or properly disclosing the risk. The suit would be along the lines of the tobacco cases where it caused more government / tax money to be spent on public health. or some such theory….

  52. 52
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    The problem with the insurance thing is no competent insurer would ever underwrite a policy for a gun fetishist, knowing that they are inherently a higher risk, because they’re such stupid idiots.

  53. 53
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Glocksman: Nah… he keeps that under his wife’s pillow so she can study up after he’s fallen asleep.

  54. 54
    Bill says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: The insurance would be available. It’s always available. The premium would be very high though. As it should be.

  55. 55
    SatanicPanic says:

    @eric: Congress passed a law making that impossible.

  56. 56
    PurpleGirl says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Do you think that’s a problem? The Princess Bride is an excellent source for quotes.

  57. 57
    Mandalay says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I am just as certain Dunn will be convicted.

    Right. IANAL, but I don’t see how SYG even applies when Dunn walked away from the kid’s car back to his own car, but then chose to return to the kid’s car with his gun, and then fired (and then drove off, and did not contact the police).

    The fact that the kids did not have a gun, or anything that even looked like a gun, is going to be a big problem for Dunn’s lawyer.

  58. 58
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @PurpleGirl:

    No, not a problem…just that nearly every time I see the word “inconceivable” I hear Wallace Shawn’s voice.

  59. 59
    Roger Moore says:

    @Mandalay:

    I know it’s Florida, but I still can’t see how this murdering asshole can walk.

    The “victim” is the wrong race, therefore inherently threatening and any reasonable (i.e. white) person would have been in fear for his life.

  60. 60
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Mandalay:

    The kids were blah. Dunn is white. You do the math.

  61. 61
    patrick II says:

    I had a work friend who lost his young nephew due to a self-inflicted shotgun wound. My friend’s brother kept his loaded shotgun in the front closet where his son found it and accidentally shot himself. The now ex-father says “It was God’s will” that he lost his only son. The brothers don’t speak anymore.

  62. 62
    doug r says:

    @muricafukyea: My wife points out that is the true meaning of faggot.

  63. 63
    jl says:

    Some things in this story are a little too vague.

    Is there a more precise term for this ‘secret compartment’ on top of the dresser? The author of the story might inquire whether certain arcane terms of art used by normal people, such as ‘drawer’ or ‘cigar box’, or ‘manila folder’ might be appropriate?

    Why was it not a miracle that the infant was not killed by the gunfire but only received an apparently minor wound, but it was a miracle that she could use the arm to feed herself?

    Enquiring minds want to know.

  64. 64
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @patrick II:

    I really have had it up to here with the invisible sky buddy taking the credit for every good thing and the blame for every bad thing that stupid humans seek to absolve themselves of responsibility for.

  65. 65
    Cervantes says:

    @Calouste:

    Sounds like the girl doesn’t count.

    Remember the report issued by a UN committee the other day telling us all what the Vatican should do to improve the situation of children? It criticized the Church, rightly; and we did, too.

    The reporting requirement stems from the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. This Convention entered into force in 1990 because the vast majority of the world’s governments signed and ratified it immediately. It was signed by the Clinton Administration in 1995, nearly twenty years ago. It has still not been ratified by the US Senate.

    Bear in mind, there are three UN member states that have not yet ratified the Convention. Somalia announced last year it that is planning to ratify it (and may already have done so by now, I have not checked); and South Sudan — a country that’s two years old — has already passed the relevant legislation to ratify.

    That leaves us, one nation standing bravely alone, unwilling to recognize minimal rights of our kids; or, indeed, anyone’s kids.

    Ask yourself why.

  66. 66
    Roger Moore says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    “Regardless of the outcome, the parents have been punished more than any criminal justice system can do to them by this happening.”

    Bullshit. I don’t know if it would be the best thing for the kids to be taken away from their parents, but at the very least the parents should be on probation and unable to own guns until their kids are old enough to move away from home.

  67. 67
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Violet: They may already be doing that. I am quite sure my homeowners runs a not insignificant amount higher than a policy for a similar home in town. Many reasons for this, #1 being response times for fire (I live in a FD that uses volunteer firemen), another being lack of police patrols (I have never seen a cop car within 15 miles of my place. Would not surprise me in the least if they charge more on the basis of gun ownership (they know we do, we declare it in our property listing) as well they should.

    As far as I know, there is no requirement for liability coverage for anyone with CCW, which is really stupid.

  68. 68
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @jl:

    I suppose the NRA will say the best answer to these tragedies is to enforce the laws, dammit, and charge the 3 year-old as an adult arm the 17-month-old.

    Fixed for what the NRA would actually say.

    ETA: Oops, Ruckus got to the same place, much earlier. I really should learn to read every comment before putting in my own oar.

  69. 69
    patrick II says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Betty,
    There is a difference between “a reasonable person” feeling threatened and any unique individual being in “reasonably fear”. That ambiguity is in the law purposely to lower the standard of allowable shooting. If you feel fear, without being held to the standard of a “reasonable person”, you can shoot. It is reasonable that the coward Zimmerman felt fear, it is not reasonable that a reasonable person would.
    However, I agree that Mr. Dunn will not get off. He didn’t feel fear, he felt anger.

  70. 70
    eric says:

    @SatanicPanic: that looks like negligence protection. i am thinking of a deceptive practices claim where the risks are not properly disclosed or something along those lines

  71. 71
  72. 72
    Roger Moore says:

    @eric:

    remember, you cant have freedom with out cracking a few eggs and what are children but fertilized eggs.

    I think you got that backward: fertilized eggs are children. Once they’re born, though, they’re on their own. If they happen to be shot because their parents can’t properly secure their guns, tough luck; only the unborn deserve society’s protection.

  73. 73
    MomSense says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    So glad I’m not the only one reading

    inconceivable

    as incontheivable.

  74. 74
    Betty Cracker says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: The only thing that can stop a bad child with a gun is a good child with a gun. So buy more guns!

  75. 75
    MomSense says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    The problem with the insurance thing is no competent insurer would ever underwrite a policy for a gun fetishist, knowing that they are inherently a higher risk, because they’re such stupid idiots.

    One person’s problem is another person’s solution.

  76. 76
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    California doesn’t have a duty to retreat, either, and AFAIK has never had one. Here’s an article that explains the difference between California’s and Florida’s duty to retreat better than I’m doing. It boils down to the jury instructions and the “reasonable person.” It seems like a very small and subtle difference, but it’s the difference between Dunn going to prison and Dunn walking free. With the way Florida law is set up, the jury isn’t going to have much of a choice but to set him free.

  77. 77
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Bill:

    The catch is making the insurance mandatory for gun ownership. That will NEVER fly, the NRA and their masters, the merchants of death, would fight any such effort tooth and nail. If not by registering a .50 cal on the target first.

  78. 78
    eric says:

    @Roger Moore: so does this mean that women should be required to insert a small firearm so that the unborn can readily protect itself?

  79. 79
    Nutella says:

    Don’t call Carper an idiot for failing to lock up his guns in a house full of small children. He’s not stupid. He’s vicious.

    Just like the Republican politicos who refused Medicaid expansion for the poor citizens of their state because they hate Obama, this guy refuses to behave like an adult because he loves guns and hates libs.

    That’s vicious.

  80. 80
    Anita Paul says:

    Young boy (nine year old) in Boston shot accidently by older brother 14 yrs old today. Young child died.

  81. 81
    Cervantes says:

    @Nutella: To be fair: he could be both.

  82. 82
    Churchlady320 says:

    Jesus had nothing to do with it either way. If there is a sentient God, I suspect he/she/it is wondering why brains were part of the human package when clearly they go unused.

  83. 83
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    As far as I can tell, it’s more like, Dunn was afraid of them because they were black, so it was reasonable for him to defend himself even though it turned out they weren’t armed.

    I really hope I’m wrong, but after reading a lot of articles after the Zimmerman case, I think Dunn walks, because the jury will decide he had a reasonable belief that he was in danger.

  84. 84
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Roger Moore:
    I agree. But here, the sheriff’s department actually believes that the parents have been punished enough, and is hinting that prosecutors shouldn’t file charges. I don’t know what can be done when law enforcement itself decides to defy common sense and the law.

  85. 85
    jl says:

    @Roger Moore:

    ” I think you got that backward: fertilized eggs are children. Once they’re born, though, they’re on their own. ”

    Once you are born, you are a slut or a punk, even if only prospectively. Unless you meet certain informal criteria and community standards, as determined by certain self-appointed communities.

  86. 86
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Happens all over the US, I fear. LEOs tend to be sympathetic to the gun fetishists, and cut them all sorts of slack they’d never even consider in other cases. It always helps if the family in question is white, too.

  87. 87
    Bill says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: I agree with this. We aren’t going to see mandatory liability insurance for gun owners any time soon. But it would go one hell of a long way toward solving the insane gun culture we have right now.

    If the law did require it, insurers would sell it though. At a high price.

  88. 88
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    because the jury will decide he had a reasonable belief that he was in danger.

    Because he was the only one armed in the entire incident.

    The logic is impeccable. Those thugs would have overwhelmed him even though he was the only one armed.

    Right. Sure.

    Gawdawlmitey, this country is fucked up.

  89. 89
    pseudonymous in nc says:

    So, does this fuckwit get to keep his Responsible Gun Owner® card because Jesus, or is he now a Never Was A Responsible Gun Owner In The First Place So Shut Up?

  90. 90
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @pseudonymous in nc:

    “Responsible gun owner” is looking more and more like an oxymoron on the scale of “military intelligence” and “corporate responsibility”.

    Not to mention “jumbo shrimp”.

  91. 91

    Are you sure it was Jeebus, may be it was the Ceiling Dog.

  92. 92
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @c u n d gulag: Jesus said “love your neighbor” but I guess he didn’t mean the rival sports team.

    It’s a good thing the Good Samaritan didn’t find out that Jew lying on the highway whose life he saved was a fan of Jericho Team (Chariot) Racing or who knows how that story would have ended.

  93. 93
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Another Holocene Human:

    I don’t think in Seattle there is a greater sin than to be a 49er fan.

    Likewise, in San Francisco, there is probably no greater sin than to be a Seahawk fan.

    It’s the will of the Gods that this be the way it is.

    However, we can all agree, Seahawk and 49er fans alike, that Pittsburgh sucks!

  94. 94
    Betty Cracker says:

    @patrick II: Huh. That’s the first time I’ve heard it explained that way. I’m not a lawyer, but it seems absurd to ask jurors to interpret what’s “reasonable” for each unique individual — independent of common standards of reasonableness.

    At any rate, like you, I’m certain Dunn will go to jail. The jury in the Martin case had Zimmerman’s injuries to hang their acquittal on and vague, conflicting witness testimony. Dunn left multiple witnesses behind and fled the scene. He’ll be convicted.

  95. 95
    Cervantes says:

    @Another Holocene Human:

    Jesus said “love your neighbor” but I guess he didn’t mean the rival sports team.

    George Orwell:

    I am always amazed when I hear people saying that sport creates goodwill between the nations, and that if only the common peoples of the world could meet one another at football or cricket, they would have no inclination to meet on the battlefield. Even if one didn’t know from concrete examples (the 1936 Olympic Games, for instance) that international sporting contests lead to orgies of hatred, one could deduce it from general principles.

    Nearly all the sports practised nowadays are competitive. […] At the international level sport is frankly mimic warfare. But the significant thing is not the behaviour of the players but the attitude of the spectators: and, behind the spectators, of the nations who work themselves into furies over these absurd contests, and seriously believe — at any rate for short periods — that running, jumping and kicking a ball are tests of national virtue. […]

    Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealousy, boastfulness, disregard of all rules and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence: in other words it is war minus the shooting.

  96. 96
    🎂 Martin says:

    @Mandalay:

    I know it’s Florida, but I still can’t see how this murdering asshole can walk.

    Black kid talked to him, accosted him with loud black music. Because he has a right to be racist, he reasonably believed they were about to pull out MAC 10s and gun him down.

    And that’s likely where the jury will secretly be – do Floridians have the right to be racist?

  97. 97
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: If the family is black the child is some sort of depraved supercriminal who can never be reformed and should be tried as an adult. Executed, actually, but SCOTUS told them ixnay on the ildchay executions-yay.

  98. 98
    patrick II says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    but it seems absurd to ask jurors to interpret what’s “reasonable” for each unique individual

    To the NRA that absurdity is a feature, not a bug.

  99. 99
    pseudonymous in nc says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    “Regardless of the outcome, the parents have been punished more than any criminal justice system can do to them by this happening.”

    For fuck’s sake: the reason you prosecute in cases like this is to make the suggestion to other fucking Freedom Bufords that they might want to lock up their fucking guns.

  100. 100
    Kay says:

    Whatever happened to trigger locks? Police here used to pass them out. He has the gun in a “secret compartment” anyway, so why not one more step when he gets ready to shoot the next person who asks for directions?

    Of course, we don’t know that it was in the secret compartment. The adult may have just dropped it on top of a dryer in the garage, like happened here when a 14 year old shot and killed his 15 year old friend. They picked the gun up off the dryer while they were waiting for the school bus. We know it was dropped on the dryer because one of the two kids survived, and is older than 3 so could tell the story. The adult was convicted of a misdemeanor.

  101. 101
    Amir Khalid says:

    @pseudonymous in nc:
    You’d think the cops of all people would know that, but noooo …

  102. 102
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @patrick II:

    Exactly. What is “reasonable” to most NRA members is “batshit insane” to me.

    But then again, I used to tote around military grade firearms for a living, what the fuck do I know?

  103. 103
    Another Holocene Human says:

    Can you believe, I used to think when the cops/newspaper claimed some kid was a heartless criminal that they were experts and using sound judgment and I actually took these pronouncements semi-seriously?! I mean, if the kid was under 12 I was a bit skeptical because my religion didn’t think children that age could really make serious decisions, and below 9 was below “age of reason”. (I don’t look to my former church for child psychology advice any more, but still.) I mean, wow, the racism that used to be wrapped up in these stories about poor, disadvantaged youth. I feel like such a sucker.

  104. 104
    andy says:

    Justin Carper writes a parenting column- I would recommend all juicers to drop by and leave a little advice.

  105. 105
    Another Holocene Human says:

    Jury reform is on the agenda in Tallahassee this year. I am hopeful but certainly not counting on anything. Oh, and NRA is pushing for more nonsense, as per usual.

    http://gaveltogavel.us/2014/02.....to-change/

  106. 106
    ET says:

    I am glad that child was killed because of parental stupidity and carelessness.

  107. 107
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @andy: I’ll pass. I am suddenly reminded, however, that Orson Scott Card has world’s most Freudian column running in a local NC paper. (oh just google it and find out)

  108. 108
    elaine benis says:

    Another responsible gun owner:

    A 13-year-old boy died Thursday after he was shot by his juvenile friend in what was being investigated as an unintentional shooting, Puyallup police said.

    Police responded just after 3 p.m. to the shooting in the 500 block of 11th Street Southeast in Puyallup.

    Officers arrived to find a boy trying to help the 13-year-old who had been shot in the chest, police spokesman Scott Engle said.

    The 13-year-old was taken to Tacoma General Hospital, where he later died. He was identified as Eddie Holmes of Puyallup by the Pierce County Medical Examiner’s Office.

    Investigators determined five boys were hanging out at the home after school at the time of the shooting, and that no adults were at the residence, police said.

  109. 109
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    It seems that Allen West is behind on the mortgage, because I’m seeing a barrage of ads asking people to help him fight the Godless Radical Liberals and that Obama dude…and get his mortgage up to date.

  110. 110
    sharl says:

    @pseudonymous in nc:

    Freedom Bufords

    I like this very much, and shall now steal it, for the cause of FREEDOM!!!!1!eleventy

  111. 111
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @elaine benis:

    The insanity is found even deep in the Seattle-Tacoma metro area, not just out in the hinterlands around Roy.

  112. 112
    Roger Moore says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    The logic is impeccable. Those thugs would have overwhelmed him even though he was the only one armed.

    How was he to know they weren’t armed? They were a gang of teenage thugs, so any white bigot reasonable person would assume they were armed to the teeth and act accordingly.

  113. 113
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @pseudonymous in nc: You can tell it’s Gun Derangement Syndrome because it’s just come out that there have been numerous exonerations (and who knows how many cases still being fought) in the last few years where it was ultimately determined that no crime had been committed. An example would be an accidental fire erroneously labeled arson, as happened in Texas. Yet in this case there’s obvious negligence and harm but the fuzz are hemming and hawing.

  114. 114
    Betty Cracker says:

    @patrick II: Okay, here’s the passage from the Zimmerman jury instructions that led me to believe the jurors were supposed to apply a standard that went beyond what Zimmerman’s pea-brain could process as “reasonable:”

    In deciding whether George Zimmerman was justified in the use of deadly force, youmust judge him by the circumstances by which he was surrounded at the time the force was used. The danger facing George Zimmerman need not have been actual; however, to justify the use of deadly force, the appearance of danger must have been so real that a reasonably cautious and prudent person under the same circumstances would have believed that the danger could be avoided only through the use of that force. Based upon appearances, George Zimmerman must have actually believed that the danger was real.

    I’m not a lawyer, but to me that sounds like the standard is higher than what each individual perceives as “reasonable.”

  115. 115
    Yatsuno says:

    @Thor Heyerdahl: Worst part: he’s your countryman.

  116. 116
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Kay:

    Trigger locks would deprive you of a half a second in a duel with some wild home invader.

    The entire justification for massive armament in the home is that you need to have locked and loaded weapons at the ready, easily accessible, to fend off the 100% chance that some crazed criminal types (invariably with melanin surpluses) will invade your home and try to take your big screen TV and your daughter. Trigger locks would inevitably interfere with your home defense plans.

    So what if your 13 year old finds the weapon and starts playing with it with his buddies and it goes off and a round is lodged in the chest of one of them and he dies in the hospital?

  117. 117
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Can’t confirm that, but found this tidbit on West’s congressional voting record really fast:

    “Voted YES on terminating the Home Affordable mortgage Program. (Mar 2011) “

  118. 118
    Ruckus says:

    @jl:
    No worries.
    We all slip up from time to time. As long as your infant child doesn’t get shot with a gun you left accessible, you get a pass. At least this time.

  119. 119
    elaine benis says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Yep.

    Honest to God, I feel safer in Mexico than I do here.

  120. 120
    Ruckus says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    It’s a big boat. We have room for lots of oars. Like one of those roman slave ships, lots of oars and all pulling in slightly different directions.

  121. 121
    Kay says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Trigger locks would deprive you of a half a second in a duel with some wild home invader.

    I don’t think you’re competent or trained with the gun if you can’t get the trigger lock off fast enough. There has to some demands made of these people. It’s such a low bar.

    They used to pass out things that looked like sturdy zip ties here, except bright orange. We called them “trigger locks” and that’s how they were intended to be used.

    I read a Florida case where the shooter was a police officer and he had a locking holster for his work weapon. Part of the case revolved around whether an untrained person could figure out how to get the gun out of the holster, because it was difficult unless you knew how to do it and had practiced with it. The police officer claimed his GF had shot herself, which is why the locking holster was at issue. If police can have a locking holster, parents can have a trigger lock.

  122. 122
    cckids says:

    @jrg:

    Well, in his defense, it is pretty inconceivable that a three-year-old might climb up on a stool.

    Christ. I know you’re snarking, but my daughter could climb before she could walk. At 3 years old, she freaked our babysitter into quitting because, during a game of hide & seek, she climbed on top of our refrigerator & rearranged the cereal boxes again so they hid her.

    A dresser? Pffft. Amateur.

    Edit to add: Plus, “secret compartment”? Please. Probably a box, if that.

  123. 123
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Sounds exactly like the rationale for not wearing a seatbelt–“It’ll trap me in the car for precious seconds if I crash and the engine catches on fire!”

    (I understand that seatbelts don’t fit some individuals; I’m talking about the generally non-pregnant, average for male sized males that seatbelts were designed to fit who formed the visible and outspoken constituency against primary seatbelt laws when I was growing up.)

    I don’t suppose I need to post seatbelt/non-seatbelt mortality tables here. They are ugly.

  124. 124
    Ruckus says:

    @Cervantes:
    Agree.
    Just from the evidence presented here I’d say you can’t rule out stupidity. So vicious may apply but I’d go with stupidly vicious. A fun combination for sure.

  125. 125
    Skerry says:

    @andy: thanks for the link. I sent him a nice little note.

  126. 126
    muddy says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: I know some people with walls covered in guns. Mind you they need a lot of firepower, because of course people want to come in here and steal these guns now! Um. I was scolded for taking the wrong seat on the couch. That’s where the patriarch sits with a handgun in a holster shoved down in there. It’s for when someone suddenly comes erupting through the door I suppose, he can pick them off in one smooth move.

    It’s a wee shack on top of a mountain by itself. It has a long steep loud gravel driveway coming up from the dirt road. There is a long walk up various stairs, gravel paths in the approach from the drive. Then across the rickety porch, then open the storm door, then erupt through the door, SURPRISE!

  127. 127
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Another Holocene Human:

    The really important thing here is the rubes are buying more firearms and enhancing the balance sheets of the merchants of death, after all.

  128. 128
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @muddy:

    Cripes. They’re in a prime defensive position where a single shotgun would suffice to defend the place, yet they still need an arsenal, because despite the fact that they’ve got the high ground with excellent sightlines to deter any invader, well, they still might get through and get to that couch.

    OK, my head is hurting too much from all of this. Need to lay down and take a rest.

  129. 129
    Glocksman says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’m not a lawyer either, but Wikipedia had this to say about what constitutes a ‘reasonable person’

    the “reasonable person” is a composite of a relevant community’s judgment as to how a typical member of said community should behave in situations that might pose a threat of harm (through action or inaction) to the public.

    Most communities would hold that walking away and then coming back with a gun and shooting a guy in a car isn’t reasonable.

    His actions before, during, and after the shooting just scream that the ‘I saw a shotgun’ bit was made up in order to save his ass.

    Let’s put it this way, if I wound up having to shoot someone, my first reaction would probably be to break down on the spot.
    Or at least call the cops.
    Not play the sociopath and drive away as if nothing happened.

    Unless there are major facts that we don’t know about, if Dunn walks it’s not because of the failure of the reasonable person standard or even Florida’s SYG law.

  130. 130
    muddy says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: I think the thing is that they want the arsenal just cuz Constitution and you don’t tell me, libtards. But then there is this massive display of weaponry, excuse me, “investments”, which needs to be protected.

    I said the gun in the couch was because he’s a lazy fucker who doesn’t get off his ass to do anything, even repel a home invader. It occurs to me that the main reason he won’t work (aside from the lazy) is that he would have to leave his preciouses unattended all day.

  131. 131
    John T says:

    People have weird ideas about “miracles” and luck. Like telling a cancer survivor or a car crash survivor that they are “lucky” to have come out alive. No, if they were lucky they never would have gotten cancer or crashed their car in the first place.

  132. 132
    Amir Khalid says:

    @muddy:

    I know some people with walls covered in guns. Mind you they need a lot of firepower, because of course people want to come in here and steal these guns now!

    When you pointed out that they have only enough hands to hold one gun at a time, what did they say?

  133. 133
    jl says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    ” Likewise, in San Francisco, there is probably no greater sin than to be a Seahawk fan. ”

    I live in SF, and I like the idea of have the Seahens being the most feared rival, and our Great Satan.

    I was even going to root for the Seachickies out of Left Coast regional pride, until I saw that they were going to be quite rude in pounding the Broncos into the ground.

    I even like Sherman, though I think he has defensive position football player psych issues around game time. I wish him to be utterly defeated and humiliated and disgraced only when he plays the Niners.

  134. 134
    muddy says:

    @Amir Khalid: They are each special snowflakes, and are precious in their own right. Would you tell people they could only have one child, like the godless commies in China?

    Besides, when they need to stand up to the government they will need them all.

  135. 135
    🎂 Martin says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    The danger facing George Zimmerman need not have been actual; however, to justify the use of deadly force, the appearance of danger must have been so real that a reasonably cautious and prudent person under the same circumstances would have believed that the danger could be avoided only through the use of that force.

    Is a reasonably cautious and prudent person also assumed to be racist? If so, then Zimmerman acted appropriately, as did Dunn.

  136. 136
    cckids says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Because he was the only one armed in the entire incident.

    Oh, I don’t know. Wasn’t there a sidewalk nearby? QED, everyone was armed.

  137. 137
    Glocksman says:

    @Kay:

    For safety reasons (disengaging some types of lock can trigger the gun) you aren’t supposed to use trigger locks with any loaded firearm.

    That said, what about a damn safe?
    If you have kids in the home, buy a damn $100 safe and lock the gun up.

  138. 138
    jl says:

    One of my nuttiest teabagger relatives keeps a pistol in very safe ‘secret’ place. It is under a bi picture book on the end table next to his favorite comfy recliner chair. The plan is that when Evil Doers arrive, he will hold them off with that cleverly hidden pistol, within reach and at the ready, until he can get to his armory safely stored in a linen closet guarded by a flimsy door.

    I hope nothing goes wrong with his clever plan.

  139. 139
    bemused says:

    @kc:

    That’s brilliant.

  140. 140
    Mandalay says:

    @Glocksman:

    Most communities would hold that walking away and then coming back with a gun and shooting a guy in a car isn’t reasonable.

    Exactly so. Dunn might have had some kind of argument if he had his gun with him when he first went over to the other car, and fired after claiming to have seen someone in the car with a gun. But that isn’t what happened.

    He chose to return to his car to get his gun, and then return to the other car, even though he was in no danger, and nobody else had a gun.

    He’s fucked.

  141. 141
    Trollhattan says:

    Among things that nah, gunna, happen, I’d like to see child protective services remove the children from this obviously dangerous home environment. Let the parents shoot it out, by themselves.

  142. 142
    Trollhattan says:

    @jl: The home invasion is the gun fondlers’ secret rape fantasy, isn’t it?

  143. 143
    bemused says:

    At the height of gun nut buying sprees, there was a story in the Mpls paper about a guy who bought a gun for the first time. His wife wasn’t crazy about the idea but relented when he also bought a gun safe. They have kids. What killed me is that the guy was in a front page photo along with the article holding his gun in their bedroom where the gun safe is. His name and the name of the town he lives in was in the article. Not too bright.

  144. 144
    muddy says:

    @Trollhattan: Except they really want it to happen. Or they think they do at least.

  145. 145
    Glocksman says:

    @jl:

    It is under a bi picture book

    Hmm…

  146. 146
    jl says:

    @Glocksman:

    “It is under a BIG picture book”

    A very patriotic picture book. Of American patriotic things. You pervert.

    I am having ‘W’P says you can’t edit your own comment’ issues, thank you very much. And I always have to edit, because I am a careless slob.

  147. 147
    muddy says:

    @Glocksman: Shh! It’s a secret!

  148. 148
    Cain says:

    @muddy:

    It won’t work.. those kind of skills actually take training and work to learn.

  149. 149
    patrick II says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Here is the quote from the Florida statute you cited earlier:

    Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
    (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

    Notice the difference between that and the jury instruction. I don’t know why the jury was instructed differently, but after reading an interview with the the lady gun nut who drove the decision in the jury room it is pretty clear that she was driven by the statute and not the instruction. I even wonder if the jury instruction could have been reason for appeal if held in conflict with the clear language of the statute had Zimmerman been found guilty.

  150. 150
    Roger Moore says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:
    I doubt the biggest worry is complete strangers. It doesn’t matter how remote and defensible your residence is if you’re worried about your family and house guests.

  151. 151
    Glocksman says:

    @patrick II:

    Not possible as that would be a clear violation of the fifth amendment prohibiting double jeopardy.

  152. 152
    muddy says:

    @Cain: There’s plenty of practice with the guns themselves out of doors. For all I know he spends time every day practicing pulling the silly thing out of the couch. I wouldn’t be at all surprised. You can do that while you sit there smoking pot, no problem.

    ETA: damn it now I can see him doing it in my mind’s eye, thanks a lot

  153. 153
    Betty Cracker says:

    @patrick II: Good question. I have no idea.

  154. 154
    Roger Moore says:

    @Glocksman:
    I think you’re misunderstanding either the comment or the 5th Amendment. Patrick II is saying that if Zimmerman had been convicted, he might have been able to appeal the conviction successfully on the grounds that the jury instructions were not in agreement with the law. There is never a 5th Amendment problem with a defendant appealing a conviction; the double jeopardy clause only applies to somebody being charged again for the same crime after being acquitted.

  155. 155
    Mandalay says:

    Michael Dunn’s lawyer:

    God didn’t make all men equal—Colt did,” Cory Strolla, Dunn’s attorney, said in his opening arguments on Thursday. “[Dunn] had every right under the law to not be a victim, to be judged by 12 rather than carried by six.”

  156. 156
    Glocksman says:

    @Roger Moore:

    I misread the comment.
    I though he was asking if the prosecution could appeal the verdict.

    Thanks.

  157. 157
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Mandalay: Wow, watch him bust out “guns don’t kill people” and some incoherent crap about banning cars next.

  158. 158
    mac007 says:

    I used to think owning a gun would allow me to protect my family (really, no snark). Then I began looking at the scientific studies on the topic, like this one…

    http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/.....0/929.full

    …and what I found scared the living bejebus out of me. The data are quite sobering. Now, there is no way I would ever own a gun for self defense.

  159. 159
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Glocksman:

    This is Florida. In Florida, you can go to your ex-wife’s house with a gun, shoot her new boyfriend dead, and be set free by a judge — no trial at all — because you were standing your ground.

    I wish I were joking, but that’s just one of the actual cases.

    ETA: Sorry, have to fix the “trial” part — there was a trial, the jury deadlocked, and a judge subsequently found the guy couldn’t be retried because of a Florida SC decision that said cases like his would be eligible for a Stand Your Ground immunity hearing.

  160. 160
    jcmayo says:

    @The Other Bob: That’s basically a direct quote of the sheriff.

  161. 161
    Jebediah, RBG says:

    @muddy:

    Besides, when they need to stand up to the government they will need them all.

    One of many things that gun-strokers don’t seem to think through. As I understand it, the US military has more than a few weapons that can prettily easily overcome small arms. If the gubmint ever decides that Buford’s shack needs to be taken out, Buford will be lucky if he gets out before it becomes a crater.

  162. 162
  163. 163
    muddy says:

    @Jebediah, RBG: Not to mention that they never see any problem with the government that they would need to fight for, except for owning the guns themselves. It’s so circular. It’s just meant to be an overwhelming argument to preserve patriotism. I was going to say to preserve democracy, but they have informed me that this is not a democracy, it’s a republic. I don’t really remember a lot of cries to spread republic around the world, but wev.

  164. 164
    Roger Moore says:

    @Glocksman:

    I misread the comment.

    I thought that was more likely.

  165. 165
    WaterGirl says:

    @Mandalay:

    He chose to return to his car to get his gun, and then return to the other car, even though he was in no danger, and nobody else had a gun.

    That’s what we used to call cold-blooded murder. What changed?

  166. 166
    Gex says:

    @Roger Moore: They’re trying to get us to the point of “How does he know they are unarmed. There are so many new laws making it legal to pack heat in public that the probability of anyone you encounter having a gun has gone up drastically.”

    Sadly.

  167. 167
    Roger Moore says:

    @Gex:
    I think that a defacto open season on blah people is a major goal, too.

  168. 168
    The Other Chuck says:

    @Jebediah, RBG: So basically, they’d have to turn Buford’s neighborhood into Homs? Might not exactly win hearts and minds there. Small arms do in fact make house-to-house fighting something less than pleasant.

    My problem with this “defense against tyranny” argument is that the gun-fondlers are pretty much the very exemplars of tyranny we need a robust defense against.

  169. 169
    The Other Chuck says:

    @WaterGirl:

    That’s what we used to call cold-blooded murder. What changed?

    They found out liberals didn’t like murder. Cleek’s law.

  170. 170
    Elizabelle says:

    from mistermix’s link:

    As of Friday, no charges had been filed against the father.

    “We’re compiling the case and will present the case to the D.A. to determine if any charges will be filed for failure to secure a firearm,” Sheriff’s Capt. Shores noted.

    “Regardless of the outcome, the parents have been punished more than any criminal justice system can do to them by this happening.”

    Uh, no. This father — or couple — needs to be prosecuted for child endangerment.

    That loaded gun belonged in a gun safe, not in a drawer.

    Make an example of this “parenting columnist.”

    He got off easily — his baby daughter will survive. The next little child will not. (And how will that little boy feel in years to come, seeing his sister’s scars?)

    Secure the goddamned gun.

  171. 171
    Low Country Boil says:

    Doctor after doctor have told us that there’s nowhere else the bullet could have gone that would have ended up with this story.

    The bullet, along with the gun, could have gone into a locked gun safe, like a responsible gun owner with two young children in the home would have done.

  172. 172
    Gex says:

    @Skerry: I did too. I didn’t say one word about guns though. And it has already been moved. I just said he really shouldn’t be a parenting advice columnist if he can’t imagine that a kid will climb and get into things. That’s what kids do.

  173. 173
    Gex says:

    @Roger Moore: Oh no doubt about that. I see federal law nullification, talk of secession, and new laws that seem to mainly legalize the shooting of black men, and I get what’s happening. Of course they don’t have any idea what they are really doing. They are pretty sure they have wholesome, God-fearing, America defending motivations.

  174. 174
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Ruckus:

    lots of oars and all pulling in slightly different directions.

    Which may explain why we so seldom get anywhere!

  175. 175
    EthylEster says:

    @Cervantes: I love George Orwell. That guy could think AND write.

  176. 176
    EthylEster says:

    @jl:

    I live in SF, and I like the idea of have the Seahens being the most feared rival, and our Great Satan.

    I was even going to root for the Seachickies out of Left Coast regional pride, until I saw that they were going to be quite rude in pounding the Broncos into the ground.

    I’m very impressed by your clever humor. It’s so witty to dis the Seattle team by essentially saying they’re girls.

  177. 177
    pseudonymous in nc says:

    @Mandalay:

    Michael Dunn’s lawyer:

    Isn’t that statement the epitome of “pound on the table” lawyering?

  178. 178
    GHayduke (formerly lojasmo) says:

    @jrg:

    Well, in his defense, it is pretty inconceivable that a three-year-old might climb up on a stool.

    You’ve never met a three year old, have you?

  179. 179
    TerryC says:

    @Roger Moore:

    Someone who feels such unreasonable (to the normal person) fear is a coward. We all know that what Dunn felt was anger, not fear. But, take him at his word. If so, then he is a coward.

    He needs to be called that: “Michael Dunn, defendant who by his own defense is a coward.”

  180. 180
    efgoldman says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    so now he’s fighting DMX in a “celebrity” boxing match.

    Say what? DMX, the Latin teacher from Maine, who comments here?

  181. 181
    Ruckus says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    Actually the reason we seldom get anywhere is we aren’t really trying to get anywhere, we’re here just to vent. That’s not a bad thing but it really isn’t enough. But like most of us what to do other than vote and work to elect better people is all we know. How to find those better people???? How to recognize better people?? How to convince them to subject themselves to the mess that is politics??????
    IOW how do we get beyond the pissing and moaning and become effective at any or all directions?

  182. 182
    Aptidude says:

    EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON. GOD HAS A FUCKING PLAN.

  183. 183
    Mnemosyne says:

    @GHayduke (formerly lojasmo):

    I suspect you may have missed a hint of sarcasm. ;-)

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