Red Means Run, Son, Numbers Add Up to Nothing

numbers
I guess these idiots don’t know how to feel. On the one hand, the poors are moochers so why wouldn’t they sign up for Obamacare in droves? On the other hand, they should be too lazy to sign up. Maybe this guy lives in Texas or some other Obamacare-denialist state, where people can’t sign up because the state refused to expand Medicaid:
tpm_graph

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85 replies
  1. 1
    J.D. Rhoades says:

    The replies to that tweet are indicative of the mindset of the wingnut/fuckwit axis (and your Humble Commenter makes an appearance).

  2. 2
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Missouri: “WE’RE #1!!! WE’RE #1!!!” Oh, wait a minute, #5? Well, that’s still better than #2.

  3. 3
    humanoid.panda says:

    Richard, this is off topic, and from a lurker, but I hope you can adress the issue I was thinking about recently. Isn’t the loss-ratio aspect of the ACA a form of a “costs plus” arrangement? In other words, if the insurance companies can keep 20 cents of every dollar they are paid, don’t they now have an incentive to steer people to more expensive treatments and/or not clamp down on over-charging providers? After all, 20% of 15 dollars is 3 dollars, but 20% of 20 dollars is 4 dollars..
    To some extent, the competetive nature of the exchanges might alleviate this, but most people don’t get their insurance from exchanges…
    Am I missing something?

  4. 4
    Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader says:

    Thank you for exposing me to the profundity of some moron named Digital Pimple.

  5. 5
    dpm (dread pirate mistermix) says:

    @humanoid.panda: Richard didn’t write this post – so he probably won’t see your comment.

  6. 6
    Steeplejack says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader:

    And the pot nym calls the kettle nym black. Heh.

  7. 7
    Zam says:

    @humanoid.panda: Wouldn’t they only push for more expensive procedures if that would cause higher premiums? I’m not an expert on insurance but doesn’t their profit come from premiums and not payments to hospitals?

  8. 8
    NonyNony says:

    Is quoting someone named “digitalPimple(tm)” almost by definition nut-picking? Or something picking anyway?

    (The TM is so precious. Unless that’s really a “corporate” account for someone who trademarked digitalPimple – then it’s just disturbing.)

  9. 9
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @humanoid.panda:

    In other words, if the insurance companies can keep 20 cents of every dollar they are paid, don’t they now have an incentive to steer people to more expensive treatments and/or not clamp down on over-charging providers?

    I’m confused. Insurance companies aren’t charging the providers of expensive treatments, they are being charged for the expensive treatments.

  10. 10
    Napoleon says:

    I love how Marshall is just full on taunting and trolling them. Its the internet equivalent of spiking the football.

  11. 11
    Napoleon says:

    @humanoid.panda:

    I don’t see it. I could type out a long post I don’t have the time to do but I am going to guess the basic reason why you see it that way is you are connecting the insurance companies expense and income flows in a way they are really not connected in practice.

  12. 12
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    So it’s unskewing the numbers, because guts say so, now and forever with the Wingnuts? I love the whole “we want the sekret numbers” thing from that guy.

  13. 13
    Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader says:

    @Steeplejack: You think I should change my nym to Just Some Blackhead?

  14. 14
    Zam says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Honestly with wingnuts I just assume the numbers he is talking about are the secret death camps or some other made up nonsense.

  15. 15
    Fair Economist says:

    @humanoid.panda: Insurance companies have an incentive for patients *in general* to seek more expensive treatments, for the reason you stated. However, they also have an incentive for *their* patients to seek cheaper treatments. If the market is fully competitive, the second incentive is the only one any particular company faces. As companies gain market share, they have more of a reason to game the system and let provider fees rise, and that’s exactly what we’ve seen in uncompetitive markets like North Carolina and Alabama (thanks, Blue Cross!).

  16. 16
    amk says:

    If the red staters die off due to ignorance/incompetence/spite, will it turn those states blue?

  17. 17
    Patrick says:

    I said it before, and I’ll say it again. People like DP are angry as hell because he doesn’t believe that so many people are signing up for the ACA. Why the HELL wasn’t he angry before the ACA when people didn’t even have the fricking right to sign up for health insurance due to pre-existing conditions? It just boggles the mind that “people” like DP celebrate the right of insurance companies to deny insurance to pre-existing conditions. I put people in ” ” because what type of person acts that way towards your common man?

  18. 18
    Jay in Oregon says:

    I’m curious: what “numbers that matter” haven’t been released?

    The number of people murdered by Obama’s death panels?
    The number of dirty sluts gettin’ their freak on with all of that free birth control?

  19. 19
    Poopyman says:

    @amk: It could happen. Apparently there’s now an active push to cause wingnut heads to asplode in OK.

    Love the self-awareness not exhibited by the quoted politicians.

  20. 20
    Paul in KY says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader: How about ‘Just Some Zithead’?

  21. 21
    Patrick says:

    @Jay in Oregon:

    I’m assuming the demographics of those people that have enrolled. CNBC, who is hoping ACA will fail, was screaming about it yesterday. On the other hand, these dead-enders are screaming about anything, valid or not, that can make the ACA fail.

  22. 22
    scav says:

    Someday My Great Number will come!

    Poor dears. They’ve got such a limited repertoire any more.

  23. 23
    Napoleon says:

    @Jay in Oregon:

    I’m curious: what “numbers that matter” haven’t been released?

    I know some members have Congress and the water carrying heath care experts aligned with them have been throwing a fit that the admin hasn’t released a demographic breakdown which would then prove no-one under 45 has signed up meaning the program is in a demographic death spiral.

  24. 24
    Linda Featheringill says:

    I think the Righties should just keep on running against Obamacare. Do it! Do it! Do it!

    Signed,
    A dedicated leftie

  25. 25
    Punchy says:

    “people” like DP celebrate the right of insurance companies to deny insurance to pre-existing conditions.

    I think what he’s celebrating is the right for Big Insure to deny coverage to blahs and the pawhs. It’s a god-awful mix of Cleek’s Law and pure tribalism, with a dash of IGMFU.

  26. 26
    dmsilev says:

    @Jay in Oregon:

    I’m curious: what “numbers that matter” haven’t been released?

    The numbers that will prove that Obamacare IS DOOMED. Whatever numbers those might be.

  27. 27
  28. 28
    DTOzone says:

    Republicans are delusional. Completely delusional. And there’s nothing you can do about delusion.

    Here in NYC, my Republican neighbors have been complaining that de Blasio didn’t send dump trucks and snow melters to clean the snow after last week’s blizzard like Bloomberg.

    Bloomberg didn’t even send plows.

    Delusional.

    The left just better hope there isn’t enough of them to matter, but there may just be.

  29. 29
    GHayduke (formerly lojasmo) says:

    @Napoleon:

    They’re going to be pretty disappointed about the 3 million under 26’s who are on their parents’ insurance.

  30. 30
    Belafon says:

    @GHayduke (formerly lojasmo): In their minds, these people didn’t sign up for insurance, so they don’t count. Never mind the fact that if they hadn’t been able to stay on their parent’s insurance, a good number of them wouldn’t have insurance now.

  31. 31
    DTOzone says:

    @GHayduke (formerly lojasmo):

    They’re going to be pretty disappointed about the 3 million under 26′s who are on their parents’ insurance.

    One Republican I know said to me “Keeping kids on their parent’s health insurance will make them lazy and not go out and make something of themselves.”

    So don’t kid yourself, they hate that too

  32. 32
    Belafon says:

    @DTOzone: Yeah, my manager at work said “I would have been too proud to have stayed on my parent’s insurance.”

  33. 33
    Cacti says:

    @DTOzone:

    One Republican I know said to me “Keeping kids on their parent’s health insurance will make them lazy and not go out and make something of themselves.”

    The one consistent feature of GOPers, from the god-botherers, to the country clubbers, is that poverty is a sign of moral deficiency, and you ought to be punished for it.

    If you lack the means to purchase health insurance, you are a bad person, full stop.

  34. 34
    Elizabelle says:

    @Poopyman:

    On its website, the Satanic Temple explains that it “seeks to separate Religion from Superstition by acknowledging religious belief as a metaphorical framework with which we construct a narrative context for our goals and works.

    “Satan stands as the ultimate icon for the selfless revolt against tyranny, free & rational inquiry, and the responsible pursuit of happiness,” the website says.

    Who better to go Galt with than Satan? I love it.

  35. 35
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @DTOzone:

    “Keeping kids on their parent’s health insurance will make them lazy and not go out and make something of themselves.”

    Their alternative is to make them poor by getting an unplanned illness.

  36. 36
    Elizabelle says:

    @DTOzone:

    One Republican I know said to me “Keeping kids on their parent’s health insurance will make them lazy and not go out and make something of themselves.”

    That is so damn true. The young ‘uns don’t want cars, clothes, education, a place of their own, going out with friends and on dates, marrying and raising a family.

    It’s all about cribbing health insurance from your parents. Oh, and moving you and ferrets into their basement. Pajamas optional for ferrets.

    Asshat. Has he mentioned his belief to any parents of kids with diabetes, cancer, epilepsy, Crohn’s; even healthy kids who had expensive healthcare needs in their past? Cause I tell you, those kids are wankers.

    The things that Republicans “know” are very sad.

  37. 37
    scav says:

    @DTOzone: Too proud to work at
    Daddy’s Company too? Too proud to milk Daddy’s contacts and cash Daddy’s trust fund checks? Daddy’s inheritance untouched because of virtuous self-lifting pride in individual accomplishment? Ahh, our moral betters.

  38. 38
    Citizen_X says:

    @Poopyman: Ah hahahaha haaaa! Great news to start the day!

    the Satanic Temple explains that it “seeks to separate Religion from Superstition by acknowledging religious belief as a metaphorical framework with which we construct a narrative context for our goals and works.

    I actually like that sentiment a whole lot. Not the so much the semi-Randian stuff that follows, though.

  39. 39
    Citizen_X says:

    @scav:

    Daddy’s inheritance untouched because of virtuous self-lifting pride in individual accomplishment?

    Yes, Koch brothers, show us how you embody that one.

  40. 40
    Cacti says:

    @scav:

    My favorite wingnut welfare anecdote:

    Anyhow, Prof. Katznelson described a lunch he had with Irving Kristol back during the first Bush administration. The talk turned to William Kristol, then Dan Quayle’s chief of staff, and how he got his start in politics. Irving recalled how he talked to his friend Harvey Mansfield at Harvard, who secured William a place there as both an undergrad and graduate student; how he talked to Pat Moynihan, then Nixon’s domestic policy adviser, and got William an internship at The White House; how he talked to friends at the RNC and secured a job for William after he got his Harvard Ph.D.; and how he arranged with still more friends for William to teach at UPenn and the Kennedy School of Government. With that, Prof. Katznelson recalled, he then asked Irving what he thought of affirmative action. “I oppose it”, Irving replied. “It subverts meritocracy.”

  41. 41
    Napoleon says:

    @DTOzone:

    One Republican I know said to me “Keeping kids on their parent’s health insurance will make them lazy and not go out and make something of themselves.”

    In one form or another this type of thinking shows up from Rep when it comes to various facets of health care and it just shows how disconnected they are from real life.If they were talking about, say, free cars I would understand what they were saying, but no one in the world thinks “you know, I have this free health care so I am going to get my shoulder set 3 times next month just for the hell of it and quit looking for work”

  42. 42
    IowaOldLady says:

    You can see the 2014 themes emerging on both sides. The Dems will go with income inequality and fairness and the Reps will go with Obamacare. Frankly, I couldn’t wish for a better contrast.

    We’re still likely to lose seats just because of which seats are open but maybe the Rs will help us out here.

  43. 43
    MomSense says:

    @DTOzone:

    One Republican I know said to me “Keeping kids on their parent’s health insurance will make them lazy and not go out and make something of themselves.”

    How does this Republican you know feel about tax breaks for oil companies and other corporations or the subsidies we give to Walmart’s employees? How about tax cuts for the wealthy? I have never understood this attitude that breaks are good incentive for the wealthy but basic services for the poor and middle class are hand outs.

    It’s a mixed up world.

  44. 44
    Mike in NC says:

    Went to see a local urgent care doctor yesterday for the first time in 2 years due to a nagging sinus infection caused by allergies. The waiting room was packed (about 20 seats) and I had to wait 3 hours to see him. He joked “You must have been on the third busload of patients that pulled up this morning”. (Was closed all last week due to the holiday.) Anyway, I’d never seen so many decrepit people in my life. Several had to move with walkers or canes and at least half were obese, which would probably explain many of their other medical issues. One old guy had a plastic bag filled with about 20 empty prescription bottles. Hey, I blame Obummer.

  45. 45
    Joseph Nobles says:

    The GOP of the gaps.

  46. 46
    Mike in NC says:

    @IowaOldLady:

    You can see the 2014 themes emerging on both sides. The Dems will go with income inequality and fairness and the Reps will go with Obamacare. Frankly, I couldn’t wish for a better contrast.

    Here it seems that the wingnuts have at long last (5 years) given up demanding to see the Kenyan’s birth certificate, but they’re all spun up about what did Hillary know about BENGHAZI!!!!! and when will she come clean?

  47. 47
    Belafon says:

    @Elizabelle: Sounds like they’ve read Heinlein’s Job too many times. But they definitely should go ahead with the monument.

    And someone should request to build a giant colander there, and they can use the NY councilman who was sworn in with a colander on his head to prove that the FSM is a real religion.

  48. 48
    Ash Can says:

    I’m sure Pimple is just another asshole who lost his shit when Obama was elected, then reelected. “He can’t possibly have really won; he had to have cheated. There’s no way this country would elect a ni-CLANG as president, I tell you, nowaynowaynowayWAAAAAAAH!” So they just retreat into their delusion because reality tears them apart. It would be kind of sad if they weren’t harming others in the process.

  49. 49
    IowaOldLady says:

    @Mike in NC: Yeah, that looks ahead to the 2016 election. I saw one guy talking about Clinton is terrible because of “what she did in Benghazi.” His audience all murmured agreement. I wanted someone to ask what? What did she do?

  50. 50
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Cacti: Heh. Love it.

  51. 51
    Patrick says:

    @DTOzone:

    One Republican I know said to me “Keeping kids on their parent’s health insurance will make them lazy and not go out and make something of themselves.”

    With this dwarfed logic, we should get rid of Medicare for old white folks. Having Medicare makes them lazy.

    So what does your Republican friend say to a 24-year old with a pre-existing condition that will force him/her to go bankrupt to pay for his medical bills? A bankruptcy that we all end up sharing in.

  52. 52
  53. 53
    jayboat says:

    @DTOzone:

    The left just better hope there isn’t enough of them to matter, but there may just be.

    I hope you’re wrong on that one. A lot of the 27% have been thumping dogma since kindergarten…
    very hard to break those old habits and time doesn’t feel like it’s moving quite fast enough with the whole ‘attrition’ thing.

  54. 54
    Someguy says:

    You gotta wonder why the WH isn’t trumpeting from the hilltops all the success stories. The number of people now covered by Obamacare is amazing – so many people who weren’t covered before, and the website is fixed. The only real griping is coming from Republican dead enders and the insurance companies – two constituencies that were going to complain no matter what.

    The only thing worse than a failure in politics is a raging success that is overly modest. Maybe it’s just a mark of Obama’s character that he’s not bragging about this.

  55. 55
    Cacti says:

    @Someguy:

    You gotta wonder why the WH isn’t trumpeting from the hilltops all the success stories. The number of people now covered by Obamacare is amazing – so many people who weren’t covered before, and the website is fixed. The only real griping is coming from Republican dead enders and the insurance companies – two constituencies that were going to complain no matter what.

    If only that were true.

    You’ve still got a bunch of sore-ass emo progs still grousing about how bad it was to pass ideologically impure healthcare reform, a la Michael Moore in the NYT.

  56. 56
    bryan says:

    @Elizabelle: There’s more truth to that than you know. I think that Anton LeVey (founder of modern Satanism) said something along the lines of Satanism simply being Ayn Rand’s objectivism dressed up with ritual.
    (Now I’ll go look for the cite…)

    ETA: here we go- http://www.patheos.com/blogs/p.....-satanism/

  57. 57
    Jeremy says:

    @Someguy: The WH is talking about it. We can’t expect the WH to do all of the work. His so called allies should be stepping up and talking about these things. Too many people on the left sit and complain and expect the president to do all the heavy lifting.

  58. 58
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Someguy: I heard they’re working on a big success story ad campaign. My guess is they want this to go right.

  59. 59
    amk says:

    @Someguy: You should get out more.

  60. 60
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    My name is dIgitalPimple(TM, all rights reserved throughout greater GaltGulch), and I am a complete and utter moran.

    Thank you.

  61. 61
    Patrick says:

    @Jeremy:

    Or they pretend to be Obama’s ally when they write a highly negative op-ed in the NYT about the ACA, which is then used by FoxNews.

  62. 62
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Someguy:

    You gotta wonder why the WH isn’t trumpeting from the hilltops all the success stories.

    The MSM doesn’t have the time or inclination to cover the WH’s trumpeting of any success stories at all.

    ACA success is not part of The Narrative.

  63. 63

    @MomSense:
    That’s because you’re dealing just with the surface logic. The underlying theme is hate. Not just bigoted hate, but taking joy in hurting people in general. The average GOP voter doesn’t even like big corporations, but they will defend those corporations’ right to stomp on everyone underneath them to the death. For the last forty years at least, the big corporations have been politically helping them hurt whoever their favorite target is. Liberals – IE, anyone who likes to help people – are against big corporations living the soft life, so hate demands more defense of big corporations. It used to be I Got Mine, Fuck You. Now it’s just Fuck You. They throw in these moralistic slogans because there’s nothing an abuser loves more than blaming the victim.

    It’s been horrifying watching American politics devolve into this.

  64. 64
    Jeremy says:

    @Patrick: True !

  65. 65
    WaterGirl says:

    @Someguy: Hmmm. I’m getting an image of a president. Or a commander. Something about a codpiece. He’s on a big ship of some kind. Wait, I see a banner… can’t quite make it out. Oh, I think I see it now. it says Mission Accomplished.

    Perhaps our current president doesn’t want to declare victory too soon?

  66. 66
    Hill Dweller says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    The MSM doesn’t have the time or inclination to cover the WH’s trumpeting of any success stories at all.

    ACA success is not part of The Narrative.

    The MSM has actually been pushing “horror stories”, which fall apart after scrutiny, since the day after the government shutdown ended. It feels coordinated.

  67. 67
    Mike in NC says:

    @Someguy:

    The only thing worse than a failure in politics is a raging success that is overly modest. Maybe it’s just a mark of Obama’s character that he’s not bragging about this.

    According to MSNBC yesterday, the problem is that he’s “aloof” (and possibly uppity as well).

  68. 68
    Cacti says:

    @Mike in NC:

    According to MSNBC yesterday, the problem is that he’s “aloof” (and possibly uppity as well).

    As if that makes a difference.

    Bill Clinton could schmooze with the best of them, and they still impeached him over a BJ.

  69. 69
    Elizabelle says:

    @bryan:

    Your link is very interesting. Thank you. From it:

    Ayn Rand: Godmother of Satanism, from Pantheos blog

    Joe Carter: “Indeed, the influence is so apparent that LaVey has been accused of plagiarizing part of his “Nine Satanic Statements” from the John Galt speech in Rand’s Atlas Shrugged.”

    Star Foster … “What I find amusing is that Christians, particularly those in public office, have begun espousing Rand, even though she is the closest thing to the Anti-Christ as has ever existed. In truth, Satanism is likely more sympathetic to Christianity than Rand’s Objectivism, though neither jive with the teachings of Christ.

    I’ve often reflected on how different a story Atlas Shrugged would be if Hank Rearden had a severe stroke midway through the book. What if he showed signs of early Alzheimer’s? What if he fell and suffered brain damage? What pity or care would there be for a man whose productivity is suddenly diminished? Would the man who abandoned his family find himself abandoned?”

  70. 70
    Elizabelle says:

    NYTimes breaking news: more wingnut heads to explode:

    Senate Votes to Advance Bill on Extension of Unemployment Benefits

    A Democratic push to extend unemployment benefits that have expired moved forward on Tuesday morning, barely avoiding a Republican filibuster.

    The Senate’s 60-37 vote to simply take up a three-month extension of benefits passed with no room to spare, which will set off a negotiation to try to pass the bill later this week. Even some of the Republicans who voted yes want the cost of the extension set off by cuts elsewhere in the budget.

  71. 71

    They were running a story on NOR last night talking about the big upsurge in ER visits that happened in the first year of the Medicaid expansion in California and another state. I was pleasantly surprised that they pointed out that all of the statistics point to it being a first-year surge where people who previously were without insurance flood the ER because they don’t know where else to go. The hospitals are then able to refer them to primary care physicians or specialists who can help them, and ER visit numbers start falling again in the 2nd and 3rd years.

    So if you hear wingnuts using that talking point, we already know it’s a one-year surge.

  72. 72

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):

    *NPR, obviously. Stupid iPhone.

  73. 73
    Gravie says:

    Yes, denial of the facts is the foundation on which all their dreams are built. One of my FB acquaintances assured me, after I kept beating down his lame arguments with facts, that Rush Limbaugh and Rachel Maddow are exactly the same kind of hate-mongers. When I responded that he was full of it, he said (paraphrasing) well, there’s no way of proving it, it just depends on what you believe, a remark so essentially stupid that I immediately deleted it to spare him further embarassment and me further aggro.

  74. 74
    Elizabelle says:

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):

    Did you see this recent NYTimes story on “Oh Noes! ER visits might go up!” About Oregon study of ER use.

    NYTimes reader commenters schooled the writer on why working class people might use the ER even with health insurance. Hint: 2-3 jobs, no control over their job schedules (thanks, Wal-Mart computer), hard to get time off, cannot wait 3-4 weeks for the intake interview with a brand new physician.

    Readers suggested hospitals set up an acute care provider next to the ER, which can triage newly insured (and everyone) into actual emergency or the doctor will see you at acute care.

    And frankly, low income newly insured are still likely to respond differently than middle-income newly insured, who may have cars and appointment calendars, but couldn’t get insured previously due to pre-existing conditions.

    It will all work out in the end. Leading to unceasing wingnut screaming.

    From the story:

    Supporters of President Obama’s health care law had predicted that expanding insurance coverage for the poor would reduce costly emergency room visits because people would go to primary care doctors instead. But a rigorous new experiment in Oregon has raised questions about that assumption, finding that newly insured people actually went to the emergency room a good deal more often.

    The study, published in the journal Science, compared thousands of low-income people in the Portland area who were randomly selected in a 2008 lottery to get Medicaid coverage with people who entered the lottery but remained uninsured. Those who gained coverage made 40 percent more visits to the emergency room than their uninsured counterparts during their first 18 months with insurance.

    The pattern was so strong that it held true across most demographic groups [ED: but they’re all low-income and thus eligible for the lottery, right?], times of day and types of visits, including those for conditions that were treatable in primary care settings.

    The findings cast doubt on the hope that expanded insurance coverage will help rein in emergency room costs just as more than two million people are gaining coverage under the Affordable Care Act. And they go against one of the central arguments of the law’s supporters, that extending insurance to large numbers of Americans would reduce emergency room use, and eventually save money.

    … The study suggests that the surge in the numbers of insured people may put even greater pressure on emergency rooms, at least in the short term. Nearly 25 million uninsured Americans could gain coverage under the law, about half of them through Medicaid. The first policies took effect on Wednesday.

    But many economists say that the emphasis on emergency room use, both in policy and in political speeches, is misplaced, as it makes up only a small part of health care costs in the United States. A federal government health survey found that emergency departments accounted for about 4 percent of total health spending in 2010, far less than inpatient hospital visits, which accounted for about 31 percent. Certain populations, however, like low-income people with chronic illnesses, have much higher rates of use.

  75. 75
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Elizabelle:

    That was the other state, Oregon. But apparently Oregon saw the same effect as California with ER visits peaking in the first year and then declining steadily after that. Notice that the study says that they made 40 percent more visits during their first 18 months with coverage, but the study covered more than 18 months.

    It’s a scare tactic, IMO.

    ETA: Also, too, people seem to forget that a lot of these new Medicaid recipients are inexperienced with the medical system. They don’t have a family doctor, and they don’t know where to go if they get sick, so they go to the ER. Hopefully, as they learn to navigate the system better, they’ll have regular doctors who they can see rather than go to the ER to see whoever’s on duty.

  76. 76
    Elizabelle says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Agreed re the scare tactics.

    I thought that NYTimes article said as much about journalists covering the ACA as it did about low-income people who won a health insurance lottery.

    Health insurance by lottery?

    Isn’t that the bigger picture?

  77. 77

    @Cacti: self-awareness is not a wingnut strong point.

  78. 78

    Conservative person on my twitter feed was complaining about how she lost her insurance due to ACA. I said that that was an honest grievance, but that I hoped her replacement insurance under ACA was good or better. I also said I hope her inconvenience would be offset by the knowledge that millions who didn’t have insurance now have it.

    <>

    It’s truly all about them.

  79. 79

    @Hillary Rettig:

    Conservative person on my twitter feed was complaining about how she lost her insurance due to ACA.

    We give too much ground on this. You could reply should be that her insurance company could have grandfathered her plan, but chose not to. That her old policy was likely junk whether she knows it or not and that she could have realized that her plans was noncompliant had she looked into it in advance.

    Most of these people get little sympathy from me.

    Little simpathy from me on these folks.

  80. 80

    Many I could use an edit button. Fried that one.

  81. 81
    Doofus says:

    @Fair Economist: @Fair Economist: Backwards much? Hospitals have pricing power, so they can and do charge more.

  82. 82
    DTOzone says:

    @MomSense:

    How does this Republican you know feel about tax breaks for oil companies and other corporations or the subsidies we give to Walmart’s employees? How about tax cuts for the wealthy? I have never understood this attitude that breaks are good incentive for the wealthy but basic services for the poor and middle class are hand outs.

    Trickle down, duh.

    Also, just liberal boogeymen.

  83. 83
    DTOzone says:

    @Someguy: Y

    ou gotta wonder why the WH isn’t trumpeting from the hilltops all the success stories. The number of people now covered by Obamacare is amazing – so many people who weren’t covered before, and the website is fixed. The only real griping is coming from Republican dead enders and the insurance companies – two constituencies that were going to complain no matter what.

    I work in media. At a local newspaper, but I have friends at major dailies and in cable news.

    White House sends out these press releases everyday. Editors hit the delete button. To them, it’s not news.

  84. 84
    DTOzone says:

    @jayboat:

    I hope you’re wrong on that one. A lot of the 27% have been thumping dogma since kindergarten…very hard to break those old habits and time doesn’t feel like it’s moving quite fast enough with the whole ‘attrition’ thing.

    When you have low turnout, that 27% quickly becomes 45%-50%.

  85. 85
    DTOzone says:

    @Patrick:

    So what does your Republican friend say to a 24-year old with a pre-existing condition that will force him/her to go bankrupt to pay for his medical bills? A bankruptcy that we all end up sharing in.

    Personal responsibility, save money.

    I’m not kidding, that’s what he says

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