Friday Night Open Thread


Found this while looking for a Hannukah-appropriate clip last month; I understand it to be a Friday-evening celebration song.

If you’re still feeling trollish, here’s Dan Savage reviewing Sarah Palin’s new book:

… Here’s a picture of Sarah Palin’s grandson—who for a time was the most famous fetus on the planet (2008, Republican National Convention)—and a quote:

‘All this for me? And I wasn’t even very good!’
—My grandson, Tripp Easton Mitchell [Johnston], upon seeing the presents beneath the Christmas tree, 2012″

All this for me—and I wasn’t even that good. Translate that into Latin and it could be on the Palin family’s coat of arms…

Between those poles, what’s on the agenda for the start of the weekend / runup to year-end?

98 replies
  1. 1
  2. 2
    Trollhattan says:

    Spouse’s work Xmas party. Free dinner, drinks and no requirement to behave myself–what could possibly go wrong?

  3. 3
    Cervantes says:

    All this for me—and I wasn’t even that good.

    If the child really said that, he is far more self-aware than his maternal grandmother.

  4. 4
    jl says:

    I am a liberal, and I didn’t unconstitutionally suppress the Duck Dynasty dude’s talking rights, I just made fun of him.

    Is there going to be a class-action lawsuit against the teabaggers and GOP grifters for those of us slibanderously being accused of unconstitutionalism?

  5. 5
    Amir Khalid says:

    There are BJ commenters who know some Latin — what is the Latin for that?

    Went for my amazingly cheap Malaysian EKG today. The technicians didn’t use the word “normal” as often as I’d have liked to describe what they saw, but that was no real supply. At least there were no OMG!s. To the doctor on Monday.

  6. 6
    Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader says:

    It’s getting dangerously close to beer:30.

  7. 7

    I probably could have forced myself to go to work today since a sore throat added itself to my existing cold, but I did not want to make things worse right before Christmas. And, frankly, was not feeling up to dealing with my boss when I was already feeling sickly.

  8. 8
    Bruuuuce says:

    The big news of the day, of course, is a Federal judge striking down Utah’s state constitutional amendment restricting same-sex marriage. IANAL, but I foresee the possibility of an appeal on Tenth Amendment grounds, which would then conflict with the Fourteenth Amendment (equal treatment under the law). Unless there’s enough established case law and precedent that even the Roberts Court couldn’t reverse it easily. Anyone in the law biz got some insights on this?

    (BTW, if this DOES stand, it means a LOT of states are going to have their constitutions kicked in the coxxyx and social justice on the way.)

  9. 9
    MikeJ says:

    @Amir Khalid: ego non bonum erat?

  10. 10
    eemom says:

    I have a coworker I can’t stand who, by some retributionary masterstroke of a vengeful God, happens to live in my neighborhood and have a kid who graduated in the same HS class as mine. She insisted on friending me on FB, and I’m included on a FB invite to her holiday open house this weekend.

    ok, I know what Miss Manners would say, but really, do I GOTTA come up with an excuse and respond? Haven’t I suffered enough already?

  11. 11
    hedgehog the occasional commenter says:

    Hopping on Amtrak tomorrow night to head for Des Moines (Spousal Unit’s family is there). We get to sleep through Nebraska. This is a good thing. The not-so-good is we will arrive along with what could be a nasty storm.

  12. 12
    Bruuuuce says:

    Google Translate says “Hoc enim bonum est, et non eram.” Since I don’t speak the language, I assume that’s a pretty literal translation and need someone who does know Latin to verify the meaning.

  13. 13
  14. 14
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Amir Khalid:
    Tsk, tsk.

    but that was no real supply

    shoulda been

    but that was no real surprise

  15. 15
    danielx says:

    Let’s see – first, putting oak slats ($10 apiece!) under the two week old king size mattress and box springs. Those people who write those illustrations showing and saying that the frame alone is sufficient support are some lying mofos, I’ll tell you.

    Second, pulling the commode (or terlet, as it is known in some circles) in the downstairs half bath and installing a new wax ring. One of my least favorite home maintenance tasks, but for once I thought ahead and bought everything I could conceivably need – new flange bolts, new water supply line, etc. One of those little tasks where you really don’t want to stop in the the middle and have to go get something.

    At least it will be done before the clan arrives on Christmas Eve.

    Friday night, too. I live such an exciting life these days. I have no doubt that I will require strong drink at some point during the evening, though not before completing the delightful tasks in store.

  16. 16


    Can you pretend you didn’t check Facebook, or is it too late for that? Miss Manners would say it’s never wrong to respond, “Sorry, I already have plans,” even if those plans are to sit on the couch in your jammies eating ice cream.

  17. 17
    jl says:


    Best I can do is

    ‘iss-they for ee-may? Et I uzzn’t-way even ery-vay ood-gay!’

    oink oink!

  18. 18
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Amir Khalid: May all your doctor’s surprises be pleasant ones!

  19. 19
    MikeJ says:

    @danielx: You really want to have the toilet ready in case Santa needs it. All that milk and cookies has to go somewhere.

  20. 20

    Apropos of it being an open thread, I will once again explain my technique for dealing with wingnut relatives who try to bring up Duck Dynasty, Benghazi, or any other wingnut obsessions during the holidays:

    Fake ignorance, and ask basic questions. Make them explain every detail like you’d never heard of whatever the “controversy” is.

    This once again worked like a charm at Thanksgiving, where my wingnut brother snickered and asked if we were going to talk about Obamacare. I looked at him blankly and said, “Uh, I wasn’t planning on it, but we can if you want to.” Which forced him to try and explain the wingnut controversy, give up halfway through, and ask me to pass the salt.

    Faking ignorance: much more satisfying than letting them pick a fight and get you upset.

  21. 21
    NotMax says:

    A weekend musical aperitif for those in colder climes.

  22. 22
  23. 23
    geg6 says:

    Been hanging around on FB with some of my commie muslin buddies and trolling all of our “friends” who are sharing their outrage over Duck dude. I guess that must mean that my break is already getting boring.

  24. 24
    danielx says:


    This is true. Although I’m more concerned about my sibs, in-laws, nieces/nephews, etc. I’ve already had the experience of having the garbage disposal clog during preparation of Christmas dinner. That involved me lying on the floor with my head under the kitchen sink using some choice phrases while (and because) the spousal unit and my sister ceased cooking due to being helpless with laughter because I was getting what amounted to sewage on my hands…face…shirt…all for the edification of oh, fifteen people or so.

    I am considering writing a short Dr. Suess-type article titled “Holiday Disasters I Have Known”. Let’s see, there was the time my mom invited a diagnosed schizophrenic to Thanksgiving dinner because she felt sorry for this person…a laudable aim and an interesting experience..once. Charity really does begin at home, and that includes not inviting a complete stranger to dinner who is off her meds by choice and whose inner voices are telling her to insult everybody at the table. Repeatedly.

  25. 25
    jonas says:

    Here’s my shot at it: “Haec omnia mihi est? Et ne quidam peritus fui.” Using bonus, -a, -um to mean “good” doesn’t really work here. “Peritus, -a, -um” is more along the lines of “skilled, learned, capable.”

  26. 26
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Surprise-side healthcare economics?

  27. 27

    Here’s some Christmas music performed by Mile Davis.

  28. 28
    lamh36 says:

    Ok, so I just had a preliminary phone interview for this job I applied for in NOLA.

    First of all, dude had a lot of background noise and I was sitting here in my bed sipping tea…lol. So there was that.

    So the majority of the time he spoke and I responded, until the end when he ask me questions.

    So here are the details and my pro or con designation for the prelim stuff

    Shift: 9-9:30 until 6-6:30pm, every 4th weekend and occasionally pick up the night shift if a night shift tech needs time off
    Pro: When I tell ya that the hardest thing about my current job and even my past jobs was having to get up beaucoup early in the morning to ready for them, then you will understand that a 9 am start time for me…is golden, especially because if my body had it’s way, it would stay up until midnight EVERYDAY if I didn’t have to force myself to go to bed so I can get up for work.
    Con: Traffic will be killer, but being from NOLA, I know how to dodge traffic, and unlike my last 2 jobs, NOLA has public transportation, so I can either hop RTA or “park & ride” to avoid traffic and paying fees.

    Patient population and Workload matches my longest and most in-depth employer

    Pro: My biggest pet peeve with my current employer is that they are a private hospital, so even though they have a large inpatient facility, the real money comes from outreach/reference lab clients, i.e. Doctors Office, physician Groups, Private practices, etc. Places that expect to get whatever they want, which is all well and good, but there should be limits to what a “client”is allowed for any good attempt at continuity within the lab environment. In other words, even though the inpatients aren’t laid aside, it seems to me that the outreach clients can just request anything they bloody want, and because it’s a private institution and the majority of their patients are “insured” and not general pop, then unlike with public insititutions who have to justify every penny they ask for my CMS, the private hospitals mentality at my current place is one that means a doctor can submit 16 different cultures on the same area of one patient and still be told ok sure we’ll do that…ugh. It a basic the doctor is always right, let’s never question them mentality that I abhor the most about private hospitals….but don’t get me started.

    Small but well staffed. Currently have 14 staff members in Micro Lab along across whole 24hr day

    This may be a Pro or Con, but it depends on the size of the lab. My biggest problem with my current hospital, is that they are a large hospital on par with my largest employer, and yet they DO NOT have enough staff for the bulk of the work they do and the place is too small to house the few people they have and from discussions that have been had since I started, they seem reluctant to hire more bodies, even though the workload has increased due to Jindal’s Health and Hospitals decision to close down local public hospital in favor of contracting work out to private companies like the one I work at…

  29. 29
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):

    That is a brilliant technique. I don’t expect to see any of my siblings over these holidays, but I’ll keep it in mind for next year, or the occasional provocative emails or FB posts. Thanks, Mnem.

  30. 30

    I don’t know who Ian Bayne is but apparently he thinks that Duck Dynasty bigot is “the Rosa Parks of our generation.”

    And they wonder why they have problems with African American outreach.

  31. 31
    lamh36 says:

    Also discussed…Pay Rate

    Ok, so he brought up the pay rate and benefits without me even asking. I had decided to wait to see if there was a 2nd interview. So he said that he had my current pay rate in front him and he said he was pretty sure that my current rate could be met. Now ya know, when asked what I wanted, I quoted 2$ more than what I currently make, but the figure he mentioned was my current rate (he gave the exact number). He did said that there is a pay scale and that it is determined by Human Resources, but that my current range is within the initial ranges that he has seen. Pro: The pay rate if they match my current rate means the move would be a lateral move and not a vertical one, but it would also NOT mean a downgrade. Con: It’s not an increase in pay, but I don’t know. Until you’re able to really sell yourself in person, then all they can go by is what is on paper, and I will tell ya, I am a much bigger sell in person. So who know the con could turn into pro if I rock the in-person interview.

    Final thoughts, although he did do most of the talking, I think I came off pretty well. I’m much better in-person than I am on the phone or on paper (though my years of experience is nothing to sneeze at in my field), not to toot my own horn, but any job that I’ve been allowed an in-person interview, I have been offered that position. From his description, the jobs seems fine. It sounds no different from what I have been exposed to in the past. My current pay rate is actually above the average for the state of Louisiana, so being initially hired at the rate is nothing to sneeze at and who knows maybe I can finagle my way into a bigger increase based on my expertise alone. Honestly though, it all comes down to the in person interview. I am really good at them, but it also gives me a chance to do some evaluating of the lab myself. I have ultimately always determined whether or not to take a job by how the tour of the lab goes and how the environment in the labs “feels” when I walk through it. So now it’s on to the in-person interview, which I hope to schedule in the next 2 to 3 weeks.

  32. 32
    geg6 says:


    Crazy weather here in Western PA, where we have been blanketed with snow for at least two weeks. It is now all gone. It’s 6:20pm and the temp is 53F. It was 56F earlier today. It’s going up to about 60F tomorrow and 65F on Sunday, if the local weather guy is right.

    This is not the usual Christmas weather here, let me tell you. Of course, they tell me it will be back into the 30s by Tuesday and Wednesday. But even that is not all that bad. And no snow in the forecast. The only time I want snow and I can’t have any.

  33. 33
    jl says:

    This should make for some fun later on:

    In Striking Down Utah’s Gay Marriage Ban, Judge Gives Scalia Big Bear Hug

    ” In a bit of irony — and perhaps trolling — the federal judge who struck down Utah’s ban on gay marriage Friday repeatedly cited U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia’s dissent from this summer’s ruling on the federal Defense of Marriage Act. ”

  34. 34
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    In Atlanta, it was in the 60s today and predicted to be in the mid-70s tomorrow.

    Beginning to feel a lot like Christmas, my ass.

  35. 35
    ruemara says:

    This was a successful day. I got the roommate’s kitty to play a little and she even did a super comfy cat thing on Kage’s former chair. Of course, she’s no Kage or Takkun, because even when she asks for pets and attention, you have to be careful. She’ll turn on you in a dime and claw. But for right now, she seems a lot happier with me being the sole human available. If you’ve made a cat (or dog, or any petthing) happy, you’ve had a very good day.

  36. 36
    jl says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Heard on news last night, that while 2013 may not be the warmest year on record, November 2013 was the warmest November on record, and this may be warmest winter season on record.

    But, if there is any snow anywhere any time between now and May 2014, I look forward to Fox news debunkery.

  37. 37
    David Koch says:

    @eemom: Use the classic excuse

  38. 38
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Southern Beale: I thought it was Paula Deen?

  39. 39
    geg6 says:


    Seriously. I’m a bit of a Scrooge when it comes to Christmas spirit and even I am pissed that I can’t quite get into it because of the weather.

    I find Christmas too stressful. John loves it and I don’t. It’s a tough season for me. But I did finally let him get a tree and decorated it for him. And it’s small and fits into our bay window where Koda can’t get at it (well, technically, she could because she’s a hell of a jumper, but she won’t jump up there or misbehave in our formal living room where the tree is).

  40. 40
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    “What??!! Snow, in January, in Minnesota??!! Algore, yousofat!”


  41. 41
    shelly says:

    The Patrick Stewart version of ‘A Christmas Carol’ is on TNT tonight.

  42. 42

    This is really cool, grow mushrooms from used coffee grounds or grow basil from fish poop.

  43. 43
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    I try not to be a Scrinch or Grooge at this time of year, but I am one that doesn’t really enjoy the season, mostly because of the forced expectations of jollity.

    It’s especially dismal this year, because the people I always have Christmas dinner with have suffered two major losses in the past year and it’s a bit challenging to figure out the right balance between missing them and being full of good cheer and merriment.

  44. 44
    gogol's wife says:

    It was Irene Dunne day on TCM and I had to miss most of it. But I just caught Love Affair. What an exquisite movie, despite the ridiculous plot. Charles Boyer’s acting in the last scene when he sees the painting is fantastic. I’m finally done with school stuff, so I’m trying to get into the Christmas spirit. It isn’t easy.

  45. 45
    Cervantes says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Pretend you’re in Australia.

  46. 46
    geg6 says:


    Both of my parents died just after the New Year, two years apart. I haven’t had much joy in the season since, but it’s also the same for me as for you on top of that. I hate the expectations game that is rampant this time of year. Just puts me in a sour mood.

  47. 47
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Yeah, where it’s 110 degrees F.

    Thanks anyway.

  48. 48
    FlipYrWhig says:

    I have a perverse delight in the headline near the top of the NewsMax box at right: “Greenwald: NSA Creates Blackmail Risk for Women Who Get Abortions.” WTF is that? Is that a bug or a feature? Do they want that? Would Greenwald and NewsMax answer that question the same way? It’s an unintentionally dementedly brilliant mind puzzle.

  49. 49
    PsiFighter37 says:

    A hedge fund just bought out my apartment building (they’re going to convert it to a condo…so in effect getting kicked out once my lease is over), and apparently they dropped the hammer and fired ALL the doormen yesterday. Brand-new people now at the front – and the people we had here had been here for a few years.

    It’s also right before tip season in NYC, so it was a pretty douchy thing to do.

  50. 50
    Cervantes says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Actually, it’s 23C (73F) and sunny in Sydney as I speak.

    You’re welcome.

    Oh, and Merry Christmas.

  51. 51
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @PsiFighter37: Hedge fund people acting douchy? That doesn’t sound likely. No, wait, the opposite of that.

  52. 52
    Cervantes says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Can’t speak for Newsmax but in the underlying story, Greenwald’s point, such as it is, is that metadata can reveal more than content.

  53. 53
    gogol's wife says:


    Ugh. Ugly.

  54. 54
    Dead Ernest says:


    Well Damn, Lamh, that all sounds ‘full of potential good.’ Until you mentioned it specifically, I was wondering if your current pay might not turn out to be any ‘higher’ relative to NOLA cost of living. But even if it were a draw, since its ‘home’ I imagine you’d be better able to enjoy lower costs by virtue of having a native’s knowledge not just what/where to save, but via a local person’s network; ‘knowing a guy who knows a guy whose sister works for…’
    Guess I’m resonating with you as I had a phone interview today myself with a hospital CEO who’d like to enhance his place with the skills of my specialty.
    And so – good for you. Sounds as if you may have pleasant choices.
    Then again, I’m a / doc who is very often not correct.

  55. 55
    gogol's wife says:


    I have to avoid looking at those headlines because they get me puzzling every time. Some of them are hilarious found poetry.

  56. 56
    Shalimar says:

    @Southern Beale: Bull Conner was the Rosa Parks of the 60s.

  57. 57
    Morzer says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    All this for me? And I wasn’t even very good!

    Haec omnia mihi data quamquam haud me valde bene gessi?

  58. 58
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Cervantes: But NewsMax doesn’t side with abortion providers or women who seek abortions, so are they cheering for the NSA to shame the sluts, or are they cheering for the sluts to shame the all-seeing eye of Big Brother, or… it’s a puzzlement.

  59. 59
    Morzer says:


    “For this is good and I did not exist.”

    Which does have a certain Palinesque quality to it.

  60. 60
    Cervantes says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Yes, I’m sure they’ll think of something.

    Wait, I’ll check …

    Greenwald mentioned phone calls not only to abortion clinics but also to suicide hotlines, drug-addiction programs, and HIV treatment centers.

    Here’s the Newmax guy editorializing:

    The political angle to Greenwald’s testimony likely played well to the left-leaning European parliament’s Committee on Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs (LIBE). Those on the left in both America and Europe who revile national security overreach by the U.S. government often strongly support the wide availability of legal abortion, gay rights, and oppose stigmas against drug use and marital infidelity.

    So yes, they thought of something.

  61. 61
    WereBear says:

    @Amir Khalid: Best of luck to you, Amir. In my professional opinion, you have a BIG heart :)

    Blessed Solstice to you!

  62. 62
    Dead Ernest says:


    @Amir Khalid:

    Surprise-side healthcare economics?

    (off top of my head, the first way to express sound I made, denoting ‘surprise & delight’ type amusement, reading your word-playfulness)

  63. 63
    Ladybug says:


    I’m so sorry, this time of year must be especially difficult for you.

  64. 64
    LanceThruster says:

    Saw the Maccabeats on Katie Couric’s “Modern Religion” program. Granted they were the entertainment segment but I thought the whole program (Joel Osteen and some rock & roll youth pastor) was particularly vapid.

  65. 65

    Just me and this little lady tonight. Mom and big sister are having a girls’ night out with friends.

  66. 66
    max says:

    @jonas: Here’s my shot at it: “Haec omnia mihi est? Et ne quidam peritus fui.” Using bonus, -a, -um to mean “good” doesn’t really work here. “Peritus, -a, -um” is more along the lines of “skilled, learned, capable.”

    Going to differ – the son means ‘good’ in the sense of virtuous, not ‘good’ as in ‘accomplished’. And now that I’ve thought of that, I’ll drop bonum in favor of virtus, so I get: “Omne hoc plenum pro ego? Et non magnus virtus ego!” (Using bonum I’d get ‘magna bona’. The repeating egos seems appropriate.)

    [‘Leggo my ego.’]

  67. 67
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Shalimar: GLAAD is the intellectual heir of Nathan Bedford Forrest.

  68. 68
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Cervantes: so if we oppose stigmas, the problem of blackmail goes away?

  69. 69
    shelly says:

    I have to avoid looking at those headlines because they get me puzzling every time. Some of them are hilarious found poetry.

    And a third of them are scammy come-ons, along the lines of late night informercials

  70. 70
    Cervantes says:


    “Omne hoc plenum pro ego? Et non magnus virtus ego!”

    That might connote power rather than goodness.

  71. 71
    Seanly says:


    I don’t think 10th amendment could mean that an unconstitutional state law could stand just because people voted for it.

    This is just another of the dominoes falling albeit an important one.

    I’ll take it & the recent New Mexico rulings as big fuck you’s to Phil Robertson & the Ugandan Parliament. Some good news for our LGBT brothers & sisters!

  72. 72
    Cervantes says:

    @Suffern ACE: Works for me!

  73. 73
    Citizen Scientist says:

    So, good news in PA today, the State Supreme Court struck down part of the 2012 marcellus shale law that was rammed through the legislature with one Dem vote. The part that was struck down restored the right of local municipalities to sole control over their ordinances. Previously, the state was allowed to override those ordinances to help NG extractors pretty much drill wherever they wanted. Unfortunately, we’ve probably already seen the peak of shale gas in PA, IMHO.

  74. 74
    smintheus says:

    @Morzer: Haec tanta mihi cum haud bonus essem.

    Perhaps for an adult substitute “probus” for “bonus”.

  75. 75
    smintheus says:

    @Citizen Scientist: Hadn’t heard that, it is good news.

  76. 76
    WereBear says:

    @ruemara: WaterGirl was looking for you.

  77. 77
    jl says:


    ” Haec tanta mihi cum haud bonus essem. ”

    I like that one best. It sounds like a motto. I’ll memorize it for my Christmas morning.
    Maybe see if I can get on my family coast of arms (assuming we have one, which I doubt).

  78. 78
    smintheus says:

    @jl: Thanks. At least, it has the virtue of using the subjunctive.

  79. 79
    Cervantes says:


    Both of my parents died just after the New Year, two years apart. I haven’t had much joy in the season since, but it’s also the same for me as for you on top of that. I hate the expectations game that is rampant this time of year. Just puts me in a sour mood.


    Behold, we know not anything;
    I can but trust that good shall fall
    At last — far off — at last, to all,
    And every winter change to spring.
    So runs my dream: but what am I?
    An infant crying in the night:
    An infant crying for the light:
    And with no language but a cry.

  80. 80
    jl says:

    @smintheus: It uses the subjunctive! Wow, I just smelled a high quality Latin saying there. Subjunctive, that is real Latin for ya.

    Thanks so much. I’ll use it whenever I can.

  81. 81
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Tripp Easton Mitchell [Johnston]

    Where the hell does the Mitchell come from ?

  82. 82
    Morzer says:


    No, because the child isn’t making a claim to permanent goodness, but saying that he didn’t behave well. That’s why the literal translation “bonus” doesn’t work here. You need se bene gerere – to behave oneself/conduct oneself – or something similar.

  83. 83
    gogol's wife says:


    God, I love this blog. People are trying to translate something Sarah Palin’s grandson said into Latin. Why, we can no longer remember.

  84. 84
    Morzer says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    It was part of the child’s original name. We should probably be grateful that the luckless youngster wasn’t named Random Totality Aardvark Soupcan Palin.

    Also, Todd is Todd Mitchell Palin – so that’s the source.

  85. 85
    Morzer says:

    @gogol’s wife:

    Because also too.

    At least, that’s what the note on my hand seems to be trying to tell me.

  86. 86
    Anne Laurie says:

    @lamh36: Crossing my fingers for you!

    @Dead Ernest: And for you, also, too!

    The rest of us not-in-the-spirit cynics, we’ll just spend the next couple weeks here venting, yes?

  87. 87
    ruemara says:

    @WereBear: hm, I’m right here. Metaphorically.

  88. 88
    Morzer says:


    Is that literally metaphorically?

  89. 89
    smintheus says:

    @Morzer: “bonus” has a wide range of uses, broadly similar to English “good”. It would be idiomatic in Latin, especially for a child. Can’t imagine even the four y/o Cicero would use “se bene gerere”, esp when Latin celebrates epigrammatic brevity.

  90. 90
    WereBear says:

    @ruemara: Just alerting you that WaterGirl wanted to get in touch.

    This is a very awkward communication system, this blog comments thing. :)

  91. 91
    jl says:


    Smitheus’ translation sounds great. I therefore conclude that, in fact, the child did make a claim to permanent goodness. And that is how things work in reactionary land, there are the Forces of Good, and Forces of Evil, each one is always what it is and never anything else. Period. Case closed. Why do you hate America? QED.

    See, I Latined my argument at the end. I win!

  92. 92
    jl says:

    @smintheus: Yeah, what you said. Thanks.

    But, on the other hand, what the hell kind of language is Latin, anyway? We have more translations than we have translators.

    I thought it was a high class, precise, language, all others are low class dung compared to Latin. amirite?

  93. 93
    ruemara says:

    @WereBear: very much thank you.

  94. 94
    Morzer says:


    No, no it would not be “idiomatic” and it does not mean the same thing as to behave well, which is clearly the child’s meaning here. You don’t find people in Latin literature using “bonus” to describe behavior. They use the adverb “bene” plus a suitable verb. As for the tired and dubious cliche about Latin’s “brevity” and the infant Cicero – you might recall that Cicero famously was a proponent of the Asiatic style, which was certainly not brief or terse. Latin looks brief to us because an inflected language which doesn’t need to use “the/a” with every second noun starts off apparently a step ahead in the game compared to English. In practice, there are plenty of verbose Latin authors (Claudian, for one!) and plenty of longwinded bureaucratic inscriptions.

  95. 95
    Morzer says:


    Well, given that Greek is vastly superior to Latin in terms of flexibility, word-formation, richness of vocabulary, subtlety of expression and, for that matter, the range of its verbal system, I fear that we must conclude that Latin is very much a second-tier language.

    But then again, one might cogently argue that Sanskrit is yet more complex and subtle than Greek, which bumps Latin down to the third tier (a sort of Jets/Bills among languages).

  96. 96
    Bruuuuce says:

    @Seanly: Thanks. An attorney friend of mine pointed out, on FB, that the 14th explicitly restricts state power, so that an argument based on the 10th is doomed from the word “go” (paraphrasing, because I don’t have permission to quote). He also suggests that the Court of Appeals and SCOTUS may not be ready and willing to rule on this quite so broadly, and he thinks it will take three or four years to get to SCOTUS. (I think it’s going to get there a LOT faster, but I’m not in the biz.)

    I do know that almost all of Utah’s county offices shut down as soon as the ruling was announced, EXCEPT that Salt Lake City’s mayor has announced that his city’s offices will be open all night if necessary to handle the volume of licenses and marriages before the appeal is filed tomorrow.

  97. 97
    WaterGIrl says:

    @ruemara: Trying to figure out which thread you might still be on this evening…

  98. 98
    smintheus says:

    @Morzer: “Bene” is just an adverb derived from the adjective “bonus”.

    “Bonus” is in fact used to describe good behavior. The second definition of “bonus” in the OLD is “morally good, well-behaved, virtuous”. For ex. Ovid: “esse bonam facile est, ubi, quod uetet esse, remotum est”

    The implication was that Cicero’s wordiness is notorious.

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