Am I the only one who thinks that shame is the reason we had a pretty subdued remembrance of the Sandy Hook shootings yesterday? Beautiful little children were killed, it was awful, and Congress didn’t change a fucking thing. Here’s CNN’s shitty round-up of where we are one year later.
Whether the United States has reformed its gun laws after the Newtown massacre may depend on your point of view.
Clearly, America affirms a right to bear arms.
President Barack Obama was unable to persuade Congress, as he vowed in Newtown’s aftermath, to “come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics” about gun reform.
Obama failed to even expand background checks on firearm buyers, though he signed 23 executive actions to strengthen existing gun laws and take related steps on mental health and school safety.
However, Paul Barrett, author of “Glock: The Rise of America’s Gun,” said it’s easier today to own a firearm in some states than a year ago.
The story continues by listing those places that have reformed their laws, but the framing is the way the gun lobby likes it. We freedom loving Murcans decided that we just weren’t ready for more gun legislatin’. We love our “right to bear arms” more than we want to keep kids and teachers safe from psychos with arsenals. A few librul states did something but they don’t count.
Bullshit.
Obama did everything he could with executive power. Republicans and “conservative” Democrats in Congress loved their jobs so much they couldn’t even enact simple changes that a vast majority of the population agrees upon, because they were piss-pants scared that the NRA and a small minority of gun nuts would put them out of office.
The natural human response to this gross cowardice and dysfunction is to look away, and that’s more-or-less what we did yesterday.
aimai
I agree–it is shame that prevented us from memorializing those children. I feel even sicker today than I did right after the shooting and I, personally, feel ashamed of my country. And I also feel fear–of my countrymen. I don’t know if everyone had this experience but the rage and spite and spittle flecked language of the pro-gun contingent ramped up unbelievably over the last year. (Some) people who considered themselves second amendment absolutists crossed their concerns with the fantasies of the repressed right wing voter and came out with an unbelievably toxic stew of attack online. You knew that if you even posted on the topic, let alone joined a group to try to bring legislation to the floor of your local Senate, you would be attacked personally and lay yourself open to some gun nut fixating on you. And the continued insistence of a large crowd of gun nuts in going armed in public while pretending that this doesn’t stifle debate? That just boggles my mind. The idea that the NRA was promoting “open carry” at the Starbucks in Newtown is….well, words fail me.
CaseyL
Considering how much the MSM loves “anniversaries” of any kind – it gives them a chance to replay dramatic footage, pontificate, and make sure to remind us how important they are for covering such important events – you may be right.
Considering how much politicians love anniversaries, too, and for much the same reasons, you may be right.
Which is surprising, as the MSM and politicians are two categories of entity I would have thought incapable of feeling shame.
ETA: The one small spot of hope is that the NRA wasn’t loud and proud in commemorating its success in using the slaughter of dozens of children to sell even more guns. I don’t recall the NRA running any “We Won at Newtown!” ads. Then again, maybe it did, in certain selected markets.
RaflW
Right. This story could have been all about how the NRA and their manufacturer funders are standing athwart the 85% of Americans who want stronger background checks.
That’s a massive majority. Very rarely in this country do that many people agree, including, per CBS: big majorities of Republicans (84 percent), Democrats (92 percent), independents (81 percent), and gun owners (84 percent).
The NRA is saying FU to that many people, including gun owners! That’s a story. But not one that gets told by the narrative-loving villagers. I think they’re cowards. I think they should feel shame. They share the blame for the lock that the f’ing NRA has on Congress.
elmo
Yesterday was my birthday. It was also the first anniversary of my Dad’s death. Is it awful that I was thinking yesterday about people whose birthday falls on Sept 11, and thinking that I have a bit of understanding of what that’s like?
Went to see The Hobbit, which my Dad introduced me to when I was six years old by reading me the riddle scene, complete with voices. He was also a 20-year Navy veteran – Coffman doing SAR in the South China Sea during Vietnam -, so even though my wife is an Army veteran, I was rooting for Navy.
Violet
Was recently in the UK and the subject of guns came up. The number of people who told me they thought we were crazy and/or our gun laws (lack thereof) were part of the reason they were not coming to the US for a vacation was kind of eye-opening. I mean, I know we’re crazy about guns, but it’s interesting how it’s broken through the international news and it affecting people’s decisions on whether or not to visit the US.
c u n d gulag
@aimai:
It’s not good enough anymore to have a gun or two or three at home – or even in your vehicle.
No.
They have to wave that gun in everyone’s faces in public.
This is the New Conservatism – IN YOUR FACE WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING!!!
Totalitarian Manichean Absolutist @$$holes – one, and all.
dedc79
@Violet: I know this story, among others, got a lot of coverage beyond the US.
PurpleGirl
@elmo: If you weren’t thinking about Sandy Hook yesterday, it is entirely understandable. Your personal situation already had a lot to be on your mind. (And, I hope that the day was fairly good for you otherwise.)
My brother suffered a cerebral aneurysm on my birthday some years back. From that point on it was the first thing my mother thought of and talked about on that day. It seemed that she’d forgotten my birthday completely.
Betty
For Elmo, today is the first anniversary of my Mom’s death. Her birthday was on September 11th. Two of her great granddaughters were also born that day- which gave it new meaning to our family at least. As for Sandy Hook, I couldn’t watch the AC special. The idea of losing those babies that way is just so painful.
Schlemizel
There comes a time when you have to admit you cannot win, when there is no way even with the majority on your side that you can change the course forced on us. Now is that time for sanity of the gun issue. The pathetic attempts that are made actually make things worse because they supply a target for rage for the nutbags and usually do not work so they are used as “proof” of the failure of gun control.
The concept of triage is that you save what you can. We cannot save the kids of future Sandy Hooks today, the body politic is too ill and damaged. It makes me sick but I think that at this moment we need to fight where we can actually win while maintaining a rational conversation on guns. At some future day the nation will regain sanity and we should be prepared to strike then.
The people who are, at the heart of it, really responsible for the thousands of american kids killed and those still to be shot to death will never suffer for their efforts to make it not only possible but expected. St. Reagan, emptied the mental health hospitals, is dead and decayed and soon (not soon enough) so will be all his acolytes. We need to be poised to repair the damage but also need to admit that for the time they have won this battle – for now.
Shalimar
or kill them.
Glocksman
@RaflW:
I’m one of the 84% of gun owners.
The problem isn’t lack of support, it’s lack of depth of support.
You’ve probably heard the old saying ‘a mile wide and an inch deep’.
It applies here.
While huge majorities of Americans agree on the need for tighter background checks, very little of that support is of the ‘vote for it Mr. Congressman or I’ll vote you out’ kind.
Whereas not only are the pro gun people single issue voters, they aren’t a bit shy about making their voices heard declaring that fact, no matter how obnoxious, and in the long term, self-defeating, their protests get.
The Congresspeople on both sides of the aisle who refused to even consider more stringent checks are aware of this and pander to the crowd more likely to vote them out rather than the more ‘squishy’ pro regulation crowd.
I’m afraid the only real answer is for enough tragedies to occur that’ll motivate enough people to move gun regulation to #1 on their priority list and make the politicians aware of it for any significant changes to occur on the Federal level.
State level?
Some states have tightened their laws, but you’ll likely see flying unicorns before you see some other states tighten theirs.
CTVoter
It was pretty snowy and cold here in Sandy Hook, which helped keep the media away. That, and the signs posted all over town saying “No media. Police Take Notice.”
The local news covered the anniversary, after coverage of the snowstorm. The coverage of Sandy Hook was subdued, and mostly focused on the group of parents who gathered Friday to basically say “Leave us alone, and do something nice for someone else to commemorate the anniversary.”
pluege
they were right in Colorado where they recalled 2 Democrats. Looks like the gun fetishists and NRA psychos are more passionate about children being murdered than everyone else is about not having them murdered.
maye
If I were the parent of one of those kids killed in that school, I would not be able to remain living in this country following that vote in Congress. I’d have to find a way to move to Europe or somewhere.
Villago Delenda Est
@Violet:
The thing is, most Americans are not crazy about guns. But a small, well financed minority are absolutely apeshit about them. That minority consists of the merchants of death and their agents of the NRA and the fetishists whose paranoia is fed by the NRA in order to insure continued sale by the merchants of death.
The fetishists should be, by their very nature, anathema to “responsible” gun owners. These people are NOT responsible. They do not treat firearms with the respect they demand as tools designed for one thing: to kill. They treat them like toys. They are NOT responsible. Ever.
Therefore, we can only conclude that “responsible gun owner” is, on the whole, an oxymoron. After all, Adam Lanza 367 days ago was your model NRA member. Then, if you’ll recall, the NRA spent a week being silent about Sandy Hook while they cleaned up internally so they could present a PR front in the wake of the massacre by an NRA member of a bunch of schoolchildren.
Cassidy
The only solution is the federal gov’t taking away what the state’s think is a right and passing/ enforcing federal legislation that cannot be circumvented by state law. Then, we give these assholes exactly 1 year to turn in their excess teddy bears, then we go and take them. If they resist, they get treated like enemy combatants.
rikyrah
@Violet:
that young Australian man who was killed on his morning jog also made international news.
MomSense
@aimai:
This is exactly my experience as well. It is sickening. I spoke with someone yesterday who is not political at all and he expressed his frustration by saying what about our kids’ right to not be afraid of being killed by a gun at school.
dww44
@RaflW: I just finished watching a very brief statement by Charles Osgood on CBS Sunday Morning about the change in gun laws since Newtown. 49% of Americans versus around 54% in the aftermath of Newtown favor strengthening gun laws. 70 laws loosening gun restrictions have passed in states versus like 30 something strengthening.
Pretty factual statement, no opining one way or t’other. No explanation as to why that’s so, because frankly the media is as much at fault as the NRA and gutless Congress persons. Just as the post above labelled the failure to pass a federal law strengthening background checks entirely the fault of Obama, it may be true that the sheer fact of a President Obama keeps the fear factor of the rabid insane and racist right at alarm levels.
So, we can blame the media (yes) and the NRA and bought and paid for or simply gutless Congress persons, but in the end the fault lies with us voters. As a Texan is reported to have once said about the state’s legislature, and I paraphrase, “If you think they’re nuts, you should see their constituents.”
debbie
@dedc79:
Except here, it was all about race…again.
Villago Delenda Est
@MomSense:
The negative rights of others are unimportant compared to the positive right of Ted Nugent to be a total asshole.
hildebrand
A student of mine mentioned, in class, that America is safer than other parts of the world because we don’t have suicide bombers. I said, ‘Yes, we do. They are the school shooters.”
Mike E
Rachel Maddow has been covering this the last week or so, and did a nice job.
Mike in NC
@CaseyL:
I wouldn’t at all have been surprised to see some lowlife gun nut running a “Sandy Hook Special” sale. In South Carolina, they make a big deal of having a couple of weekends each year where you can run out and buy all the guns and ammo you want, completely tax free.
Mark S.
I couldn’t deal with any of the Sandy Hook remembrance stuff. It makes me disgusted to be an American.
Ash Can
The shame is rooted in the fact that a majority of people in this nation, for many years (going back to the days even before the NRA morphed into the death merchant it is), have valued guns over children. And everybody knows it. We’ve seen it all along in the refusal to pay for adequate food, housing, health care, child care for working parents, public education, and community services, beginning with law enforcement. We know damned well that the best way to cut down — way down — on gun violence is to confiscate all handguns and rapid-fire guns, i.e., everything other than legitimate hunting firearms, but there isn’t a court in the land that would allow that at this point.
The problem with gun violence in this country is rooted in the way the 2nd Amendment has come to be interpreted by the law. Gun-control measures at this point just tiptoe around the edges of the problem. Locks on triggers and storage cabinets can be defeated, and, even when proper procedures are in place and actually followed, guns can still be stolen by criminals and the criminally insane, thus bypassing background checks. This is not to say I think these measures shouldn’t be pursued, however. Quite the contrary; anything that makes any difference in cutting down on gun violence is worth pursuing. Nevertheless, unless and until we as a society and a nation decide that guns should not be part of our lives, both the massacres and the steady stream of small-scale killings will continue.
Cervantes
@aimai:
That is, as they say, a feature and not a bug.
GregB
You commie-symps are just angry because Jesus and Santa are white and carry Glocks.
By the way I noticed something in the aftermath of Sandy Hook when I saw a hand made banner with a gun and the words molon labe hanging above an overpass in my small NH town. The link explains the background of the words which mean “come and take it”.
I noticed that there is not a dimes difference between those flags and the flag of the militant Islamist group Hezbollah.
Yet to many Americans one flag represents nationalist patriots and the other is a sign of religious radicals who worship guns and violence.
Of course the trick question is to decipher which is which.
WereBear
A deliberate tactic of the Brown Shirts. Because it works.
It can be defeated, but we have to realize that it what is going on.
Mr Stagger Lee
The politicians saw what happened in Colorado when they passed some gun control, a couple were hung out to dry and got recalled, where was the support for these brave people? If there is a bright spot, the Gun nuts are increasingly looked on in contempt. Notice you hardly see Wayne LaPierre after that total fail of a Press Conference, plus the face of the 2nd Amendment has been represented by militia idiots like that police chief in Pennsylvania. Tough many will die needlessly of guns, I think the worm is turning though slowly for a call to sanity in the gun issue.
Hawes
The remembrances here in CT were muted but noticeable. My son plays soccer for a team in Newtown, and it was pretty clear they didn’t want anyone from outside coming in.
And it wasn’t Red State Dems if I recall correctly. Manchin and Toomey of all people got together to propose a background check law. It was the motherfucking House. It is always the motherfucking House. And until we can win it back, it will always be the motherfucking House.
aimai
@Mr Stagger Lee:
Like a lot of stuff in this country we are seeing the country riven along political lines-people who feel they “lost” the election and who see the rise of Obama and minorities and dems as a cataclysmic insult are, as Obama said rather presciently, “clinging to their guns” because its a cheap fix for a larger, longer term problem: loss of dominance in the political sphere. Its like when there is a recession certain small items of comfort continue to be purchased–like fancy socks or cigarettes–while people have to tighten their belts for the big purchase items.
Its cheaper for angry red state men to fixate on an individual right and to purchase more and more guns, and become more and more focused on a single issue, than to engage with their loss of political power at the national level. So long as gun ownership is seen as something that pisses off liberals and that wards off death by gang banger red staters and marooned conservatives in blue states are going to cling to guns and gun rights with ever increasing hysteria. Because they can. Because it salves the emotional wound they feel every time they turn on the news and see Obama or go outside in and see pro-democratic stickers on cars.
Its the politics of self expression through consumer action run amuck.
Gen
I forgot about the Sandy Hook anniversary. I was fixated the centennial, co shooting. What kind of a nation let’s an 18 year old kid go buy a shotgun and ammo with no training, instruction or questions.
MomSense
In terms of legislation, I think at a minimum we need to have universal background checks and close the secondary sale loopholes–meaning gun shows and private sales. I would argue that a 14 day waiting period for all gun sales would be a good idea as well.
When it comes to the home/self defense argument, I don’t for the life of me understand why an AR-17 makes any sense. You can’t fire that thing in your house. It seems to me like some of these weapons are just adaptations of military weapons and that the gun manufacturers are just looking for another market for their product.
Knowledgeable gun people help me out here. Is there a legitimate home defense purpose for these weapons?
And just to be clear, I’m a supporter of hunters and hunting even though I don’t do it myself.
JPL
@Gen: How can an eighteen year old afford to buy a gun and ammo? They need to raise taxes on ammunition and guns and use the money to pay for mental health care.
Cassidy
@MomSense: No. If a person is legitimately concerned with home defense they will install good lighting, a visible home alarm, and a get a medium sized family dog with strong family attachments; I suggest Siberians. Then, if you’re still concerned, buy a shotgun.
Cervantes
@Villago Delenda Est:
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
@Schlemizel:
But you think we have to (go to the) retreat anyway?
Culture of Truth
CNN got to type “Obama failed” so you can’t they are liberal media so there work is done
GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)
@MomSense:
NO.
debbie
The reason this never gets “fixed” is because the blame is put on mental illness, making it easier for people who consider themselves normal, to point the finger elsewhere. The real source for this plague of gun violence is anger. Mentally ill and mentally fit people both can become angry and then turn into a fuming pile of rage.
Villago Delenda Est
The main problem with any restrictions on firearms and/or ammunition sales, such as background checks, is that it gets in the way of more profit for the merchants of death. The NRA is their marketing arm, so naturally the NRA opposes any background checks at all.
PurpleGirl
@MomSense: Back when I owned a rifle (a .22) and went target shooting, people told me that the gun for self-protection at home is a bolt-action shotgun. You don’t have to aim it, just hold it at you hip and fire and you’ll hurt anyone in front of you. Also the bolt-action itself makes a lot of noise and let’s anyone else present know you’re ready to shoot. They might run away at that point.
Lee Rudolph
@aimai: I took some—actually, in the circumstances, considerable—comfort in this story from rural Rhode Island: by a 2-to-1 margin, voters in Exeter rejected the recall of four (out of five) members of the Town Council who had passed a resolution (way back in March!) that the local g*n n*ts hated, hated, HATED. There seem to be just under 700 voting g*n n*ts in town (out of 5001 registered voters; it’s a small town), which is scary enough. But, as I say, it’s nice to see ANY good news of this sort.
Roger That
1. Background checks for all sales.
2. Mandatory 3+ day waiting period, “+” depending on weapon(s) & circumstances.
3. Mandatory criminal charges for all negligent discharges, unless the weapon is defective or there’s extremely mitigating circumstances. “accidental discharge” = negligent discharge.
and bonus #4, make the NRA answer how gun ownership and mental health issues should be addressed.
edit: if we’re going for wishes, #5: if your unsecured/poorly-secured weapon is stolen and used in a crime you face some penalty as well.
Tommy
@GHayduke (formerly lojasmo): I am not a gun owner, but come from a family of them. There is no reason they would make to own an AR-17 other then well Second Amendment. You don’t hunt with them. You don’t need one to keep your household safe.
cmorenc
@RaflW:
The principle this illustrates is the hugely disproportionate impact a fractional minority of 10% can have when they’re highly focused, organized, and motivated by a single passionate issue (gun control and abortion restrictions are two prime examples). That’s why they have outsized impact compared to much larger pools of potential voters whose voting choices (including whether to turn out at all) are subject to a wider range of considerations, which can motivate some of them to vote in ways divergent from their nominal overall ideological tendencies. Simply put, a hard-core NRA type voter or anti-abortion voter will turn out in a blizzard to vote for someone who reliably votes their way (and against anyone perceived as an unreliable supporter thereof), whereas a higher percentage of pro-gun control or pro-choice voters may split off on economic or other social issues. That’s exactly how and why the NRA has such powerful impact in so many elections where the polling would indicate theirs is decidedly a minority position.
Chris
@Schlemizel:
That’s been my position on the Second Amendment since forever.
I must’ve been the only person who didn’t feel “sick” or “angry” after Sandy Hook – just incredibly numb. The first of these shootings I remember hearing about was Columbine, and we’ve been treated to something like that routinely in the years since, so that I didn’t expect the country to do anything more than snort, roll over and go back to sleep.
I was frankly surprised, and kind of heartened, that we even saw as much outrage as we did.
negative 1
Here in my northeastern state there was very little about sandy hook. I think most rethugs here would rather not ever have to take a concrete stand on the issue, so they’d appreciate never having to talk about it again.
Chris
@Mark S.:
Yeah, I have to say – considering how the yearly round of 9/11 death porn makes me feel, I’m kind of glad we don’t hold “remembrance” for every tragedy in the country. I can just imagine the kind of circus that would turn into.
Tommy
@Roger That: I don’t own a gun. Could never see why I would. Just not my cup of tea. But my father owns a lot of them.. Funny thing, my state requires a licence for guns. I have said license cause if he passes away, I kid you not, he wants it to be “legal” for me to take ownership of his guns. He isn’t a liberal, but alas it is the law and we follow the law. He isn’t worried somebody is going to come take away his guns. And last I checked he didn’t need a gun yesterday. Didn’t mind a background check. That we can’t even get the basics done stuns me.
ira-NY
I know quite a few NRA members. Almost to a person, they feel threatened by our fast changing culture. Irrationally, they have reacted to this perceived threat to their culture, although violence is not the engine of the change, by arming themselves.
Given their reaction is irrational, it almost impossible to reason with them.
Matt McIrvin
@debbie: I’ve tried to point out to people that the US isn’t actually a particularly violent country, compared to, say, the UK; the difference is that our violence is more often fatal, and that’s because of guns.
It doesn’t make any difference. I’m still assured that it’s irresponsible to blame guns when the real problem is mental illness, the real problem is hopelessness or anger or the violence in human nature, etc., because a human being pulled that trigger. Blame anything but the availability of guns.
Tommy
@Chris: 9/11 porn is what it is. There is this thing called the Internet and if I want, I can get my fill of Sandy Hook. I choose not to, I have seen those little faces and don’t need to see them more. I saw a show the other day where parents said please stay away. We live this everyday. We don’t need you here to remind us of what happened.
MomSense
@Tommy:
So my question is why can’t we have the “well regulated militia” part of the Second Amendment?
Amir Khalid
A few days back, while rooting around in YouTube, I found some videos by and about people — well, youngish to middle-aged American men — who call themselves “preppers”. What they prep for is some imminent collapse of civilisation that will require them to fend for themselves. It seems to give them a justification to obsess on survival/military skills and gear. They seem especially keen on combat boots, knives (especially parangs, for some reason), and firearms and firearm accessories. These are grownups who still like playing soldiers. Can anyone enlighten me, what part of the gun-nut congregation are they? Is there some verlap between this lot and the militia types?
Roger That
@Tommy: I’m not sure which of my points you’re referring to or what the problem is that you’re describing. You can’t take possession of your dad’s guns for a few days when he dies, or that there’s a mandatory background check involved, or you had to get a license to begin with, or…?
Gin & Tonic
@Lee Rudolph: The resolution that the nutballs hated wasn’t even all that controversial – it was for the state as opposed to the town clerk handling concealed carry applications.
It’s actually pretty impressive how badly the nuts lost – a special election on a Saturday, not a Tuesday, a week and a half before Christmas, and in crappy weather. Seems tailor-made for the zealots, and yet they got positively killed.
It’s the top story on the front page of the local Sunday paper.
Glocksman
@MomSense:
That’d be ‘AR15’, not ‘AR17’.
That said, sure there’s a legitimate home defense purpose for such weapons.
If you live on an isolated ranch or farm, that is.
Urban/Suburban dwellers?
Not so much, as you’ll most certainly plant your neighbors while defending your apartment or home from teh Bad Guyz™ due to the rifle ammo going through several walls.
The thing to keep in mind when discussing such weapons is that the overtly military style ones such as the AR and AK knockoffs aren’t any more or less deadly than a more ‘traditional’ looking rifle that shoots the same ammo and has high capacity magazines available.
The Ruger Mini-14 looks like a traditional rifle with its wooden stock and lack of bayonet lug and accessory mounts.
However it shoots the same 5.56mm round that the AR15 does and accepts high capacity magazines that are easily available.
The answer in my mind isn’t prohibiting AR15’s, but limiting magazine capacity.
Tommy
@MomSense: I don’t know. I really don’t.
The folks that I know that own guns are nothing close to liberals. Yet they have no problem with background checks. Heck I ask one family member to take me hunting, and he laughs at me. He knows I don’t know how to use a gun and won’t put one in my hand.
BBA
The price of liberty is eternal violence.
…wait, did I get that right? It’s something like that.
SiubhanDuinne
@Roger That:
Yup. Chain of custody responsibility at every step of the way.
Patrick
@RaflW:
These polls are irrelevant unless people actually vote their conviction. The 85% may still stand in November 2014, but we will still have a Republican house after November 2014, 85% or not. And the GOP House is never going to make gun control more restrictive.
Furthermore, we saw it first-hand in Colorado where two democrats were booted after they voted for stricter gun control.
Until the 85% actually bother to vote their conviction, that number is irrelevant. As we saw in Colorado.
Tommy
@Roger That: I don’t mind a background check. I don’t mind a license. I think those things should be required. I said what I said cause there are gun owners (like my father) that want sane gun regulation.
MomSense
@Glocksman:
Told ya I know nothing about guns!
Glocksman
@MomSense:
I’m not sure if you’d either be amused or horrified by this 1920’s ad for the Thompson submachine gun, but it does illustrate the only legitimate use to my mind of an actual rifle for home defense.
Ad
Keep in mind that until 1934 anyone could freaking mail order machine guns of any stripe through the mail, no questions asked, and that up until 1967 anyone could mail order pistols or rifles the same way.
That’s how Oswald obtained the rifle he used to shoot JFK.
negative 1
@Gin & Tonic: The Teahadists greatly overestimated how rural any of this state is. It’s really just the burbs with more trees. Most of the minivan set is a little wary of their faux-cabin neighbors down there. They just want low taxes and no minorities.
handsmile
A modest proposal:
Prohibitions on visitors bringing “guns, replica guns, ammunition and fireworks” into the US Capitol should be repealed.
It is unclear to me why “the safety of visitors and staff and to preserve the collections, facilities and historic buildings and grounds” there should be more important than that of most other workplaces in this country where such items are permitted.
What better way for Congressmen and women to affirm their commitment to the Second Amendment rights of responsible gun owners (the vast majority, so I’ve been told). Should not the halls and floor of Congress be representative of the work environment enjoyed by most Americans?
Should such a measure be seriously entertained, of course, the ink on robust federal gun safety legislation would still be wet, so quickly would it get to the President’s desk for signing.
(I seem to recall that patriot Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-CSA) introduced legislation that would permit his colleagues – though not their constituents – to bring guns into the Capitol. How strange that legislation never moved forward.)
Villago Delenda Est
@SiubhanDuinne:
A responsible gun owner would not object to being held responsible for his firearm.
This is why responsible gun owners are few and far between.
Chris
@GregB:
It’s what the Spartans are said to have said at Thermopylae. And as with Ted Cruz reading “Green Eggs and Ham,” every time I hear a right winger quote it I have to wonder if they have any idea what they’re quoting. It’s not like the Spartans won at Thermopylae.
“Molon labe” was basically that moment from Men In Black: “Place projectile weapon on the ground.” “You can have my gun, when you pry it from my cold, dead, fingers!” “… Your proposal is acceptable.” WHACK!
Villago Delenda Est
@Glocksman:
Tax the living shit out of ammunition.
That will put a dent in this stupidity, to some extent.
Villago Delenda Est
@MomSense:
The “well regulated” part would involve, well, intrusive tyrannical regulation of freedumb loving asswipes.
Can’t have that.
Glocksman
@handsmile:
I don’t know where you work, but my employer specifically prohibits the possession of firearms while in the building, carry permit or no.
Getting caught carrying one is grounds for immediate termination, though I suspect they’d wait until the cops arrived before taking action to do so.
Company rules also prohibit having one in your vehicle, but that rule is nullfied by a recent state law that prohibits employers from prohibiting LCTH holders from having firearms in their vehicles.
Personally I think leaving a gun in your car is just begging for it to be stolen.
MomSense
@Glocksman:
OMFSM! Ok, that was awful.
sherparick
While I agree with the “fetish” part, but it is also one part tribal and one part grifters and the corporate interests they serve in pushing the “buttons” of resentment and fear within the white male tribe in particular. There is a reason that Barack Obama has become the poster child for the NRA campaign to spread panic and encourage a “buy your guns and ammunition while you still can” before Obama’s “thugs” and “U.N. helicopters” come and try to take them away. Further, those who would like to see more gun safety rules and regulation need to start winning elections in off years. They need to do their own recall movements. Those local elections in Colorado, much like the 1994 and the 2000 national elections where Al Gore lost Tennessee, West Virginia. and Ohio due in part to feelings against gun control among the white working class, killed all momentum for such legislation. All the wishing and kvetching in world does not move the Overton window until liberals and sane people start driving the insanity out of our politics.
Roger That
@Tommy: Ahhh, gotcha, I thought you were complaining that you tried to do the right thing but were faced with some hoops. My step-dad and mom are doing the same thing, she has a license just so if he kicks off it’s not a huge hassle to deal with.
@SiubhanDuinne: I was classifying those under
accidentalnegligent discharges, but either way is good.handsmile
@Glocksman:
I don’t know how you manage to tolerate such tyranny. Thank goodness, your employer is not authorized to draft and enact public legislation.
Schlemizel
@Cervantes:
No retreat, just cease the attack until we can fight on ground we can win on.
@Chris:
I have been saddened and numbed about gun deaths for some time. I have actually stopped being hopeful that the last horrific tragedy will somehow finally change the debate and hand the assholes the defeat they so richly deserve. Every time the hope is crushed and actually buried deeper as they use the outrage as an excuse to pass even worse laws ensuing the next mass casualty event.
MomSense
@Amir Khalid:
I don’t really know that much about the preppers, but I think that a lot of these groups have converged–at least judging by the newsmax headlines.
They run lots of stories on food stores and how FEMA might be affecting their supply, own weapons, treat/prevent illness with spices and miracle foods, use tricks to maximize social security, and may invest in gold.
handsmile
@Amir Khalid:
I have to imagine that your use of the word “grownups” was ironic, right?
One answer, a rather depressing one, can be found by Googling “preppers and guns.”
Other more useful ones might be found on this Southern Poverty Law Center link, “Hate and Extremism”:
http://www.splcenter.org/what-we-do/hate-and-extremism
Also, the great (and brave) investigative journalist Chip Berlet has been poling through these swamps for years. His writings on the subject might be informative as well.
Glocksman
@handsmile:
Only because they aren’t to my knowledge a member of ALEC.
Seriously though I’ve only had one employer over the years that didn’t give a rat’s ass about carrying a gun at the workplace, and that was a local eatery/bowling alley.
The owner’s only rule was don’t let the customers see it.
All of the others specifically forbade it, even the ‘stop-n-rob’ I worked part time 3rd shift at for a while.
Cassidy
@Glocksman: There is an AR 17.
And nope. There is no legit use for home defense for an assault or battle rifle. Walls are walls regardless of where you live and 5.56 or 7.62 goes through all of them. Restricting magazine size only changes the wannabes load out. The solution is banning both high capacity magazines and semiautomatic weapons. There is no need for either beyond cool kid accessorizing.
@Amir Khalid: All gun nuts are preppers to some degree. It’s just degrees of paranoia and bat shit.
Glocksman
@Cassidy:
There is, but I doubt if she was referring to this shotgun , the new prototype shotgun from ArmaLite, or the .17HMR AR clone.
As far as a ban on semiautos goes, good luck with that because you’ll need it.
Politically a mag ban is doable at least in part, whereas banning semiautos is fucking impossible due to the sheer numbers of such weapons in the US unless there’s a sea change in how we view gun ownership.
Hell, the NRA ads about how the gun grabbers want to take away Grandpa’s WW2 .45 or the old Marlin 60 .22 rifle you used as a kid practically write themselves.
Ruckus
@MomSense:
We talk about not being scared but the gun nuts are always scared. Talk will not make them less so because what they are scared of is not real and yet at the same time, as almost always, there is a grain of truth in it. I’ve known people who were scared and carried a gun all the time even when I was a teen. I worked with them. It is irrational, it can’t be fixed with discussion and debate. I don’t have any answer but legislating about the size of a magazine or the type of gun is not it. And I agree with @Schlemizel:, we have lost the argument and the battle. I fear this will eventually end our country and way of government. The idea that every issue only has two sides, ways of looking at things, ways of legislating, just does not seem to work in the current world. Is it because one side is batshit crazy? Probably but that doesn’t make them less crazy and in fact seems to encourage them.
Ruckus
@MomSense:
We talk about not being scared but the gun nuts are always scared. Talk will not make them less so because what they are scared of is not real and yet at the same time, as almost always, there is a grain of truth in it. I’ve known people who were scared and carried a gun all the time even when I was a teen. I worked with them. It is irrational, it can’t be fixed with discussion and debate. I don’t have any answer but legislating about the size of a magazine or the type of gun is not it. And I agree with @Schlemizel:, we have lost the argument and the battle. I fear this will eventually end our country and way of government. The idea that every issue only has two sides, ways of looking at things, ways of legislating, just does not seem to work in the current world. Is it because one side is batshit crazy? Probably but that doesn’t make them less crazy and in fact seems to encourage them.
Cassidy
@Glocksman: I’m just stating the solution to the problem. I’m all for taking them out of their cold, dead hands. They are a virus. You don’t negotiate with viruses.
Chris
@Ruckus:
This is what I always come back to with right-wing extremists. You can’t talk them down via negotiation. The “extremists” on our side of the aisle, you usually can, because what they’re upset about is something real and if you address it, they’ll back off (welfare state => no more threat of communist revolution). With the righties, you can’t do that, because what they’re upset about is invariably something completely fictional like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion – it’s all in their head, and there’s absolutely nothing you can do about it.
Ruckus
This is a good morning for FYWP.
First Kay now two long posts.
FYWP
Ruckus
@Chris:
In fact the more you discuss/debate it the stronger the position of an irrational person gets. It shows in that violence is their last(well sometimes last) resort. It’s all they have, violence or the threat of it.
You can talk them out of it but it takes a long time, many sessions, and you have to guide them into the self-realization that their ideas are wrong. As we talk about legislating more half assed measures more people are needlessly dying.
gogol's wife
@aimai:
This. And I agree with mistermix and am glad he has named what I’ve been feeling about it.
At least we passed some stuff in Connecticut.
Cervantes
@handsmile:
Proposal is on its way to my Senators and Representative as we speak.
Thanks.
Schlemizel
@Ruckus:
The nation has had periods of inanity in the past and survived – granted we seem to have a lot more going against us than we did during some of these bad times – I hope this fever will pass eventually and we can continue to mature as a society.
You would not have gotten an anti-slaver bill passed in 1858, you would not have prevented the lynching of Mennonites in 1918, the ‘relocation’ of Nesi in 1941, or gotten a voting rights law passed in 1960. During those times you just keep your powder dry, talk sense to the sane and fight holding actions. Someday it will be the end of America as we know it but it does no good to admit that too soon.
I encouraged my kids to get the hell out of here but they won’t. I have no choice but to stand and fight. But then again I sincerely believe that we have already passed the point of no return on climate & are all dead anyway.
Linnaeus
Don’t know if anyone else posted this, but Gary Wills – as he so often does – nailed it this very day last year:
Our Moloch
Schlemizel
here is another nail we are driving into our own coffin
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/us/scientists-turn-their-gaze-toward-tiny-threats-to-great-lakes.html?hp
pseudonymous in nc
I saw someone wearing an (illiterate) NRA t-shirt while out shopping last night. I believe there were also gun shows deliberately planned for the weekend.
Gary Wills is right: these people are fucked in the head, and everyone who tolerates them is complicit.
Margaret Nolan
Two comments:
Gun control activists spent 1+ million in efforts to correct this disgrace: Pro-gun supporters spent 12+ million
Stop asking WHY shooters perform these heinous acts. They do it because they can.
Gavin
I know that this is not going to be a popular response, but I would like to think that people will keep an open mind and be open to opinions that are not theirs without attacking.
I would like to point out just how quickly the recent gun man in Colorado was stopped due to the armed guard at the school. (on a side note, what is up with Colorado and shootings?….anyways) I have felt for a while that every school should have an armed guard at it.
Second, there is no amount of gun regulations or laws that will stop someone that is determined to shoot up a school.(if you need an example of just how little of an effect laws have on deterring certain things I ask you to look at America’s debacle called “The War on Drugs) Keep in mind that it is not the “law abiding” gun owners that commit these crimes. Instead, they follow the laws and do not carry their weapons in “Gun Free” Zones.
Before I make my third point I need to clarify that I am not a conspiracy theorist, or nut, at all. I spend 6 years in the military (finished my AIT 5 months before 9/11), and come from a family of soldiers that trace back to the American Revolution. I also have a Master of Science in Counseling and Psychology. I am not some gun toting, uneducated, red-neck.
With that being said, It really scares me to watch as our “uninformed/uneducated” citizens let their opinions be formed by the media. As sad as it is to think that someone went and killed a bunch of children, it still does not justify abolishing the 2nd amendment. In the history of mankind, whenever a group of people gave up (or was forced) their right to bear arms, normally what follows is a government that will completely take over those people since they no longer have any way to defend themselves. This is why our “founding fathers” thought it so important to put this in our Constitution. So that our citizens would be able to stand up and defend themselves against our government if it was to ever decide to over step it’s “citizen given” powers and take away it’s citizen’s rights.
Anyways, I have said my piece. I understand that this is a very sensitive subject and it causes people to become very emotional. I just hope that whether you agree with me or not, you at least think about it and if you have a reply attempt to make it be calm and educated.
Gavin
I know that this is not going to be a popular response, but I would like to think that people will keep an open mind and be open to opinions that are not theirs without attacking.
I would like to point out just how quickly the recent gun man in Colorado was stopped due to the armed guard at the school. (on a side note, what is up with Colorado and shootings?….anyways) I have felt for a while that every school should have an armed guard at it.
Second, there is no amount of gun regulations or laws that will stop someone that is determined to shoot up a school.(if you need an example of just how little of an effect laws have on deterring certain things I ask you to look at America’s debacle called “The War on Drugs) Keep in mind that it is not the “law abiding” gun owners that commit these crimes. Instead, they follow the laws and do not carry their weapons in “Gun Free” Zones.
Before I make my third point I need to clarify that I am not a conspiracy theorist, or nut, at all. I spend 6 years in the military (finished my AIT 5 months before 9/11), and come from a family of soldiers that trace back to the American Revolution. I also have a Master of Science in Counseling and Psychology. I am not some gun toting, uneducated, red-neck.
With that being said, It really scares me to watch as our “uninformed/uneducated” citizens let their opinions be formed by the media. As sad as it is to think that someone went and killed a bunch of children, it still does not justify abolishing the 2nd amendment. In the history of mankind, whenever a group of people gave up (or was forced) their right to bear arms, normally what follows is a government that will completely take over those people since they no longer have any way to defend themselves. This is why our “founding fathers” thought it so important to put this in our Constitution. So that our citizens would be able to stand up and defend themselves against our government if it was to ever decide to over step it’s “citizen given” powers and take away it’s citizen’s rights.
Anyways, I have said my piece. I understand that this is a very sensitive subject and it causes people to become very emotional. I just hope that whether you agree with me or not, you at least think about it and if you have a reply attempt to make it be calm and educated.
Cervantes
@Margaret Nolan:
How do you figure these numbers?
Cervantes
@Gavin:
Law-abiding gun-owners — until the moment they commit these crimes.
Name one group that, by virtue of the 2nd Amendment, could defend itself for more than ten minutes against, say, the US Army.
Thanks.
fuckwit
FUCK YOU CORPORATE MEDIA.
“Obama was unable”, “Obama failed”… FUCKING LEARN YOUR FUCKING CIVICS YOU UNEDUCATED DIPSHITS. Why the fuck are you getting paid?
Congress makes laws. Obama didn’t fail, the RETHUGS failed to listen to the American people who elected them, and a large majority of which support background checks and other gun safety measures proposed by Obama.
Take your village framing and shove it up your NRA-shilling asses. The Republican Party failed in their duty to protect American children from murder. Again. And again. And again.