You can't fake this kind of complete absence of self-awareness: http://t.co/l7ddpVGO3W It has to come from the heart.
— billmon (@billmon1) December 8, 2013
“Have I mentioned recently what a colossal dick Rick Santorum is?” — Charles P. Pierce
From the Guardian article:
… Several prominent conservatives lavished glowing eulogies on Mandela, among them columnist Charles Krauthammer who likened him to George Washington. The Texas senator and Tea Party favourite Ted Cruz went further, saying in a statement that “Nelson Mandela will live in history as an inspiration for defenders of liberty around the globe.”…
The Republican party’s sudden amnesia over its view of Mandela was most pithily captured by Salon, which dubbed the phenomenon the “right-washing” of his legacy.
Strikingly, many of Cruz’s followers on Facebook showed no such loss of collective memory. For them, the Texan senator’s adulatory words were as hard to swallow as they were for liberals mindful of the Republican party’s historic record in this area.
“Stunned to see you support this scumbag, Mr Cruz,” wrote Derek Cranford. “Mandela was a murderer, and a terrorist … not to mention a communist.” Other commenters said Mandela had been trained by the Russian KGB and made insulting allusions to “South African necklaces”…
One of the oldest political jokes in existence: ‘He was a great man, a noble leader, an example to us all — as long as he’s really (safely) dead.’
And, in the (hopefully temporary) absence of frontpager Dennis G, an excerpt from Thomas Franks’ 2008 Harpers article, “The Wrecking Crew: How a gang of right-wing con men destroyed Washington and made a killing”:
… Traditional conservatives had generally regarded anticommunist guerrilla movements as necessary evils, doing important if ugly work. The transforming fire of Reaganism, however, turned all such cutthroats and mercenaries into patriots. It was our guys who were the heroic underdogs now, disrespected and ill-supplied, going up against the high-tech, organization-men monsters of the Soviet Union—and, of course, its liberal proxies here in the United States.
The peerless darling of the freedom-fighter fan club was Jonas Savimbi, the charismatic Angolan guerrilla leader whose every utterance seemed to strike young Eighties conservatives as a timeless profundity. Angola had been one of the very last countries in Africa to be freed from colonial domination, but, unlike seemingly every other “national liberator” in the preceding decades, Savimbi was not a communist…
Conservatives were smitten with this self-titled general who struggled for free markets in his remote land. They fell for Savimbi as romantically, and as guilelessly, as Sixties radicals once did for Che, Ho, and Huey. Savimbi was “one of the few authentic heroes of our time,” roared Jeane Kirkpatrick, queen of the neocons, when she introduced him at the 1986 Conservative Political Action Conference. Grover Norquist followed the great man around his camp in Angola, preparing magazine articles for Savimbi’s signature. Jack Abramoff made a movie about Savimbi, depicting him as a tougher, African version of Gandhi. Even Savimbi’s capital—the remote camp called “Jamba”—was described in conservative literature with elevated language such as “Savimbi’s Kingdom.”
In truth, Savimbi’s main achievement was to keep going, for nearly thirty years, a civil war that made Angola one of the worst places on earth—its population impoverished, its railroads and highways and dams in ruins, its countryside strewn with land mines by the millions, even its elephant herds wiped out, their tusks hacked off to raise funds for his army.
This was the man the rebel right chose for the starring role in one of the strangest spectacles in American political history, a media event designed to cement conservatism’s identification with revolution. The organizer was Jack Abramoff; the place was Jamba; the model, I am told, was Woodstock— only a right-wing version, with guerrillas instead of rock bands. Every kind of freedom fighter was there, joining hands in territory liberated by arms from a Soviet client regime. There were Nicaraguan Contras, some Afghan mujahedeen, an American tycoon—and they all got together at Savimbi’s hideout.
This “rumble in the jungle,” as skeptics called it, came to pass in June of 1985. Of course, bringing it off required considerable assistance from Savimbi’s South African patrons. Nobody else even knew how to find Jamba…
aimai
Good god.
NotMax
Juiced for Jamba.
Or something.
Aji
They have no hearts. It comes from . . . more of a nether region, shall we say.
SiubhanDuinne
“And he’s not only merely dead,
He’s really most sincerely dead.”
/pronoun license
Gravenstone
This is what comes of having to adhere to your angry talking points, regardless of the underlying circumstances.
PeakVT
GOP … basking in collective amnesia over party’s past views
I suppose even the Guardian can’t say things like “purposely distorting party’s past views” or “displaying how they possess small, highly compartmentalized minds” or “showing what a bunch of blooming arses really they are.”
They fell for Savimbi as romantically, and as guilelessly, as Sixties radicals once did for Che, Ho, and Huey.
I generally like Thomas Frank’s work, but that sentence bugs me.
SiubhanDuinne
Rick Santorum is such a colossal dick, he should be covered in pink Himalayan salt and placed in a bag labelled “Republican snak fud.”
Patricia Kayden
I recall feeling relief for the Angolan people when Savimbi was killed. He was an awful man, responsible for the genocide of thousands of his own people. Not at all surprising that such a butcher was supported by rightwingers.
http://www.propertarianism.com/2011/12/25/list-of-20th-century-genocides/#.UqPjaNJDvuo
amk
wiki fwiw
Savimbi was strongly supported by the influential, conservative Heritage Foundation. Heritage foreign policy analyst Michael Johns and other conservatives visited regularly with Savimbi in his clandestine camps in Jamba and provided the rebel leader with ongoing political and military guidance in his war against the Angolan government. The African-American Texas State Representative Clay Smothers of Dallas was a strong Savimbi supporter.
Chris
There’s a column making the rounds at the National Review saying “I was wrong” about Mandela, which a wingnut relative of mine posted approvingly, making me mildly impressed with him. One small step for man, but one giant’s leap for a conservative.
Ruckus
You can pull a conservative out of your ass but you can’t pull the ass out of a conservative.
They will show it to you on a regular basis though.
Omnes Omnibus
Savimbi fan-bois? I don’t remember those. Perhaps I traveled in the wrong circles.
lamh36
some guy
Che, Ho, Huey. too cute by half. a left nationalist who was instrumental in the liberation of Cuba, a communist who defeated the armed might of the American Empire after a long and bloody fight in Vietnam, and a Black Panther militant hounded by the police.
rightwing South African-funded death squad leader who used his foreign backers to bleed his country dry for decades.
one of these things is not like the other
amk
@some guy: Heh, it’s all fair & balanced shite, dontchaknow.
Baud
@lamh36:
South Carolina may regret voting for him in the GOP primary.
Omnes Omnibus
@PeakVT: Is Huey a reference to Huey Newton? Because if so, neither Ho nor Newton deserve to be compared to Savimbi. And Che, for all that he wasn’t the romantic hero of lore, was a far cry from being a true monster.
Visceral
@PeakVT: It is a cheap shot, included only for the sake of “balance”, but I have to agree with his sentence: the left did fall in love with them, and that wasn’t a good thing. I wouldn’t want Che or Ho running things here, if only because revolutionaries – especially revolutionary military commanders = seem to make poor managers when the dust clears. It goes without saying that ideologues would have a low opinion of political sausage-making, but it also seems like they view the primary concerns of the people – food, shelter, jobs, some fun now and then – as somehow unworthy: distractions from the great work of building the brave new world (where practical matters will take care of themselves) which was supposed to be the whole reason they made the revolution in the first place.
Aji
@Omnes Omnibus: I would say that, to the contrary, you must have traveled in the right circles, but in this case, “right” seems wrong somehow.
But, yes, they were a thing.
raven
@Visceral: Ho
some guy
Ho wasn’t a military leader, General Giap was. Ho was the Mandela of his nation, ie the political leader who led, and won, the struggle against all odds, against a more powerful foe.
Yatsuno
The tea must be pure. There can be no element of movement conservatism that does not reflect true free market principles plus total worship of
MammonJeebus. All else must be purged, even if only one true conservative remains. Then there shall be FREEDUMB!!!some guy
@Visceral:
Thomas Frank and you seem to agree. Gold claps for everyone
Omnes Omnibus
@Aji: Let’s say I traveled in better circles. Even the wingers I knew when I was an army officer saw Angola as a horrorshow – they were more likely to condemn all sides in the conflict than to praise Savimbi.
Baud
ETA: I think Savimbi would work in place of Fernando if you’re so inclined.
Aji
@Omnes Omnibus: Presumably said wingers were military, though? I think there’s a substantial difference between them and Beltway think tank chickenhawk types. My guess is most of the fanbois were of the latter variety.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: ABBA? Why? And isn’t the song set vaguely during the Spanish Civil War (not that the right didn’t love them some Franco (who is still dead)).
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
It’s the only song about revolutionaries I know. I have no idea what the context for it was.
Omnes Omnibus
@Aji: Said wingers were military, yes. And appalled by atrocities. And Commies. Teasing them by playing Sandinista in my car or office was kind of fun. I don’t think they had the musical awareness to pick up on it though.
Mandalay
@lamh36: Your link doesn’t work for me, but fuck Newt Gingrich regardless.
Despite all the nice things Gingrich has always said about Mandela (even when that was not the done thing in Republican circles), Gingrich never done a damn thing for black America beyond sneering that African Americans should demand paychecks instead of food stamps.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: This is more about financing counter-revolutionaries, but I think it fits our topic. Or this, a nice waltz about rebels
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
Trying to brand Mandela as a “terrorist” is a little rich coming from the same people who idolized Menachem Begin*. Did Mandela blow up the King David Hotel? Did he ambush troop trains and mow down all the occupants as they emerged?
*Though I suppose just as Reagan was a RINO, Begin would be a LINO by now.
(How come my spell-checker doesn’t like “RINO” but has no problem with “LINO”?)
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
Thanks!
Omnes Omnibus
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge: Your terrorist is my freedom fighter and vice versa. Honestly, I don’t have much of a problem with either Begin or Mandela.
Aji
@Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, doubtful, but good for a giggle on your end.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: Anything to save someone from needing to quote ABBA – except ironically, of course.
Helen
When Santorum runs for President in 2016 (and he will) we MUST bring up his wife’s abortion. And we must use his words. He describes the horrible experience he and his wife endured. And his words exactly describe a medical abortion that saved his wife’s life. And he thinks it was not an abortion. Because in his stupid brain, abortions are only gotten by sluts; not by women having missionary, accepted, married sex. We must crush him.
Omnes Omnibus
@Helen: Wait until he has the nomination to do it. A Santorum nomination would give coattails to even the least charismatic Democrat.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
If you like the classics, there’s always I Ate a One-Ton Tomato.
Davis X. Machina
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge: Depends on which word-list the spellcheck dictionary is based on, and how old it is.
RINO is a neologism, but ‘Lino’ goes back a hundred years as the name for a Linotype machine operator, or in the UK, it’s short for ‘linoleum’.
Helen
@Omnes Omnibus: Agreed
Little Boots
if anyone was ever lucky in his enemies, it’s barack obama.
srv
I really miss Dengre.
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: It’s Voltaire’s prayer. “O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.”
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
and the lord has answered.
and the Pope, which is awesome.
Gravenstone
@Baud: You. heartless. bastard.
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: Voltaire’s whole line was “I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: ‘O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.’ And God granted it.” Of course, he said it in French.
Comrade Jake
Santorum’s analogy doesn’t stand up too well. After all, a lot of Republicans supported Apartheid.
Omnes Omnibus
@Comrade Jake:
You just won the understatement of the day award. Congratulations.
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
I do love that. that is hilarious, and much too true.
but am I right? Obama is not the greatest we’ve ever had, but damn, his opponents are the worst.
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: Lincoln faced some real assholes. But as far and modern times goes, yeah.
Yatsuno
@Gravenstone: At least he didn’t link it. I was tempted to…
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
what are you saying? that confederate, slaveholding traitors were …. oh, yeah, okay.
Omnes Omnibus
@Yatsuno: In response to Baud’s comment or off your own bat?
PurpleGirl
@Davis X. Machina: I was going to mention the Linotype machine and you beat me to it.
Omnes Omnibus
Are there any AA women on the SNL cast? Have there been any since Maya Rudolph left?
ETA: Keenan Thompson in drag doesn’t count.
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
didn’t they themselves make a joke about that a few weeks ago?
NotMax
@PurpleGirl
Let us collectively raise a glass to Etaoin Shrdlu.
(Don’t use spellcheck, but that might make it explode.)
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: I seldom watch it anymore, so I wouldn’t know.
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
yeah, me neither. not actually sure where I heard that, but I did hear it.
Yatsuno
@Omnes Omnibus: I haven’t had that song stuck in my brain for a really long ass time. But fortunately I’m not in much of a vengeful mood. I’m more concerned with staying warm. For Seattle this is fucking cold. CaseyL and I were commiserating on text message about it earlier today.
Little Boots
@Yatsuno:
for Wisconsin, it’s not exactly unprecedented, but just annoying.
Omnes Omnibus
@Yatsuno: I have single digit temps here. Per my mom. my hometown has negative single digits. I chose not to go running today.
@Little Boots: Mom described the current weather as January not December. That’s about right.
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
Is it wrong to blame john? is it ever wrong?
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: I seldom get involved in blamestorming.
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
see, that’s all I do.
maybe that’s my problem.
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: I blame you.
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
well, that’s only fair.
Little Boots
omnes, silly but serious question:
somebody on another site wanted to meet me in real life. Is it weird that I didn’t want to? I sorta like this whole semi-anonymous thing.
Steeplejack
@Little Boots:
You’re no good.
something fabulous
@Omnes Omnibus: http://www.towleroad.com/2013/11/snlwashington.html
something fabulous
woops, meant to do the fancy embedding thing. Kerry Washington made fun of it for them a while ago– did it change anything? Dunno.
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: No, not weird at all. I went to the Madison meet-up in August and had a good time, but I wasn’t sure until the last minute that I was going to go. I spent most of the evening talking to kideni who was really cool and had just been arrested a couple of times during the Capitol singing thing.
Little Boots
@Steeplejack:
that’s what I worry about, but dammit, I just like this whole thing.
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
see? steeplejack, omnes is always right.
PeakVT
@Visceral: Maybe some on “the left” fell in love with Che or Ho (not sure about Huey – are we talking Long or Newton here?), but nobody who was fucking Ambassador to the UN.
JordanRules
@Little Boots: I think Obama would do fine against, shall we say, better competition and I think he’d appreciate it. It would be a sign afterall, that a good portion of the elctorate wasn’t batshit crazy and understood the gravity of our situation; knowing how precarious the union is and how an involved, educated citizenry is critical. We must have a baseline with functioning parties, where insanity is not in play. And I think he’d help us push further if we didn’t have to fight the battle for sanity and re-fight battles of old that should be settled by a first world country by now.
Omnes Omnibus
@PeakVT:
So it was Fee Waybill and the News?
ETA: Ha, I beat your edit.
PeakVT
@Omnes Omnibus: Heh. You got to that before I realized I was stealing your joke. And getting it wrong.
ETA: Going to bed now might be the thing to do.
Yatsuno
@Omnes Omnibus: Seattle isn’t supposed to do butt-ass cold. We leave that for the Midwest. Right now it should be low 40s and raining and we should be whining that it should be snowing. Which it is supposed to do Monday. Which is also my final pre-clearance appointment.
Omnes Omnibus
@Yatsuno: When are they cutting?
JordanRules
@something fabulous: If they do, I’d assume it would be next season, but who knows.
Little Boots
@JordanRules:
there’s a lot I like about obama. I was thinking more about FDR and LBJ and Lincoln. I don’t think he’s one of the best ever but I think he’s a good man and a good president. and pretty much every republican in office right now is godawful. and in that sense, he’s lucky.
but I don’t actually disagree with anything you are saying.
JordanRules
I had some pudding that had chia seeds in it tonight. It was pretty good. My first time eating chia seeds.
Little Boots
seriously, I get the last word?
have you people thought this through?
Omnes Omnibus
@JordanRules: One of the best non sequiturs ever.
Little Boots
cause you know I will play the band. and omnes will get angry.
Little Boots
okay fine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjCw3-YTffo
JordanRules
@Omnes Omnibus: giggle
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: Stay clear of the Pet Shop Boys and we are probably okay. After the discussion earlier in the thread, I am deep into a Clash thing (staying with the most political) so rock with your own bad self.
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
so tempted, but I will refrain.
Little Boots
@Little Boots:
even west end girls?
I’m trying.
JordanRules
@Little Boots: Is the dubbing way off on that vid or is it my phone?
That song gives very particular warm memories even though it was before my time.
Little Boots
@JordanRules:
just listened. should be fine.
if not, I blame john, or omnes.
both evil.
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: Hey, if you want to go with stunningly gay 80s music, Erasure is better. Although Vince Clark was better with Alison Moyet than he ever was with Andy Bell. That is, Yaz/oo kicks Erasure’s ass any day of the week. The Communards and/or the Bronski Beat would be okay too. I just hate the Pet Shop Boys.
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
love, love, love yazoo. but erasure too. but, okay, I do love pet shop boys.
I’m weak.
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: In law school, we had a quiz/survey/form that our law review editorial board gave out to new staff members. It was designed to make staff members talk to and get to know the editors. One of the questions about me was: What is Omnes Omnibus’s (my actual name was of course used) favorite color? The answer: Black, like his heart.
It’s misunderstood, I am.
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
damn. you are difficult, sometimes, but damn, black hearted? no.
Gravenstone
@Omnes Omnibus: National non-sequitur society. We don’t make sense, but we love pizza.
Little Boots
though you do deserve, a little respect:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiKVjS3gR88
yes, I had to.
Yatsuno
@Omnes Omnibus: New hardware. Left hip. One of two. December 17th. Gonna be in hospital three weeks, two of those in rehab. Will be shit tons better once both are fixed.
Omnes Omnibus
@Yatsuno: Merde. Mon ami, merde.
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: Do you have any idea how badly Alison could hurt Andy in bar fight?
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
why everyone should love you. the hell was wrong with your class?
Omnes Omnibus
@Yatsuno: December 17? Holy fuck! That is the date that I got engaged and my wedding anniversary – one year apart. It is not a bad omen. I was extraordinarily happy on both of the days. Me mum had a hip redone and is thrilled with the result. May the same be true for you.
Little Boots
now, because of … well, I don’t know why, but everyone gets adele:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYEDA3JcQqw
Yatsuno
@Omnes Omnibus: My physical therapist is almost more excited than I am. Of course the doctor couldn’t guarantee the results but duh, that’s called medicine. I’m taking the same approach I did when my back was done: it cannot be any worse than the status quo. My body will change its mechanics much like piratedan’s will, so it will be interesting for sure. It will be more interesting after both get done.
Mike G
Boy is that ever the soft bigotry of low expectations for Republitards.
The time to say “I was wrong about Mandela being a commie terrorist” was 1996 at the latest, after he’d been president for a couple of years and obviously wasn’t going to go all Pol Pot on the white population and private industry.
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: I was an army officer and then a proto-litigator in law school. I am good actor in person – it works well in both professions. However, as you suspected, I am a rank sentimentalist.
Little Boots
@Mike G:
sadly, that sort of mea culpa is still pretty unusual on the right.
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’m not sure I’m a sentimentalist, but I do sort of hate true nastiness. snark, yes, but true nastiness, I don’t really get.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
Today was a good day to be in Columbus. I watched the Gophers hang a 9-2 loss on the Buckeyes this afternoon and then, sitting in the Varsity Club with the parents of a Minnesota player from East Lansing, watched Sparty beat the football team.
Man, it was hard to root for MSU but I do hate Urban Meyer that much.
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: Most of the time I am pretty forgiving of converts. After all, we need the dudes. But there are times where I go through a “how the fuck could you be that much of an asshole?” phase. I never was a Young Republican. I never bought into their crap. I am happy to have the votes of people who realized the error of their ways. OTOH I get pissed off when recent converts lecture me about my failures of purity. Fuck them, I don’t have a vote from which I need to run.
Omnes Omnibus
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): Hey, if you are going to be there tomorrow, hit Jimmy V’s on South High Street. Jimmy is a friend and he runs a good place.
Yatsuno
@JordanRules: I’ve had this, as chia will form a gelatin from soaking in water. I was…not that impressed.
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
I hate purity.
I get it, but I hate it. I’m not pure. never have been. I was one of those young republicans, I changed, and now, I just have no patience for purity, or purity tests.
my attitude is, glad you were lisa simpson from age 8. I wasn’t. piss off.
so, basically, yeah, I agree.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Omnes Omnibus: The game tomorrow is at noon and I’m only sticking around afterwards if there are other Gopher fans to socialize with. I suspect that everyone is leaving town as soon as the game is over, so I will be to.
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: My opinions on a variety of issues vary. I have always been more interventionist than the majority of my fellow Democrats (but for solidly liberal reasons). My thing is I have never been a Republican. I haven’t ever voted for a Republican. I get really pissed off when some of the purity patrol here, especially those who admit to being ex-GOPers, bitch at me for my opinions. Fuck them (including Cole when) appropriate. Converts often adhere to standards of purity that are unreasonable. We need them, but sometimes they piss me off.
JordanRules
@Yatsuno: It was chocolate and coconut pudding with chia and not just chia jello. I don’t suspect I’d like that much.
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
yeah, they piss me off sometimes too.
I have to say, I always have, and always will admire John Cole for doing so publicly what I did so secretly. changed my whole outlook but not in public like he did. and I always will admire him for that.
but yeah, I wish everyone would give up purity, and loyalty, tests altogether. they’re just stupid and useless.
and I suspect I might disagree with you about intervention, but I know at least where you’re coming from.
JordanRules
@Omnes Omnibus: Purity converts are an interesting subset. I find that most true bluers, the lifers play the pure card. I’ve always been on this side too but life has always, always been nuanced to me. Shit, it’s draining, so sometimes its just easier to go all black and white and demand everybody go with you.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
England needs 316 runs to win and needs to survive another 93 overs for a draw. All before losing another 4 wickets.
It ain’t happening. The Aussies are going up 2-0 and to the brink of reclaiming the Ashes.
Omnes Omnibus
This is from a celebration of Mandela’s 90th birthday. And this is from a celebration of his 70th.
Cervantes
@Baud:
The English lyrics are about the Mexican Revolution.
Here are some others that you probably know.
JordanRules
@Little Boots: Word! And I think it’s great that JC can be a public example. It’s alright to change and party with the other party.
And it’s okay to do so quietly as well.
Heirn
@Omnes Omnibus: I too am a convert, I feel like I am moving left every day. I get pissed when purity trolls come gliding in and piss on everyone. It is a big tent, look for the way to move forward.
JordanRules
@Omnes Omnibus: I’d love to have been at either.
Fully free Madiba.
Little Boots
@JordanRules:
yeah, my thing is, I have to remember that with family members, when they drive me crazy. I have to remember, I thought like that not all that long ago.
Omnes Omnibus
@Heirn: I am not a convert. I come from a line of people who were either Democrats or were Progressive Republicans who switched affiliation during the New Deal.
@JordanRules: Weren’t those songs cool? FWIW I think Madiba has gone to the best reward/freedom/rebirth available to a person.
Little Boots
and now I’m in an 80s hole, so this is what happens:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST86JM1RPl0
Omnes Omnibus
@Little Boots: I don’t mean to be an elitist or any other kind of snob, but some of us knew about the Bushes and such from the time we were kids. I get a little annoyed when Johnny-come-latelies try to define liberalism and the Democratic Party to me.
Heirn
@Omnes Omnibus: I am sorry you misunderstood my point. I get where you were coming from. I tried to add to my post but was too slow.
I was a long time low information type, but realized that “politics” can have a huge impact on everyday life. That is when I awoke and started paying attention and found things to be a shit-sandwich. Maybe I can help things going forward. It is the least that I can do.
TS
@Little Boots:
Only those who won their appeal on a battlefield are sometimes considered greater – a man of peace will always be the greatest.
Little Boots
@Omnes Omnibus:
and I don’t blame you. but some of us thought reagan was better than carter. and then we had to, rethink. and yes, be very suspicious of the ones that try to redefine liberalism as conservatism.
Omnes Omnibus
@Heirn: FWIW and for what you care, I welcome your participation in the process. My real problem is not with converts, but with converts who pretend to be more pure than thou.
Heirn
@Omnes Omnibus: I understood that from the start. I just wanted express that I felt much the same way that you did.
JordanRules
@Omnes Omnibus: I feel you about being annoyed by those late to the party pushing purity taxes but what if you didn’t come from that line of Democrats? I’m lucky I do too, just like I was lucky to be born in a first world country etc. It’s really interesting to think about if you would have gotten here being born into other circumstances. I sure like to think I would have gotten here quickly regardless. Staying conscious of that makes me even more of a lefty or whatever, I hope.
JordanRules
@Heirn: Yes…
You absolutely can. We celebrate that life of a man this week that proves it a million times over.
Little Boots
@JordanRules:
nicely put.
Heirn
@JordanRules: For me it was much more about stopping and thinking about what is being said, verses what is happening. I now realize that much of my core beliefs are more left leaning than what I grew up hearing. It took some time to align what I thought with a political belief. I was much more involved in day to day activities. Then I had a chance, (loss of work) to really think about where the county was going and I evolved. It was more the time available than the circumstance that allowed for the change.
Little Boots
@Heirn:
which should be the goal, after all.
Omnes Omnibus
@JordanRules: When you get there, that is great. I don’t care that much about your process. What bothers me is when a life long conservative Republican changes his mind over the Schiavo case. Or something else like that. And then that person deigns to lecture people from the left. I posit that such a person has no room to criticize my views.
JordanRules
@Heirn: That is true much of the time. And I understand how life and poltics don’t get naturally aligned for people. I do think that is a feature for many establishment GOPers and not a bug cause many of the knee-jerk voters would have the same outcome you did.
One of my good friends and co-workers doesn’t bother herself much with politics for various reasons and she knows it annoys me. She doesn’t identify with either party but at the bar one night, me and another coworker just started asking her common sense everyday questions and would count on the left hand if it aligned with D’s and R’s on the right hand. Needless to say, by the end we were holding up a full lefthand and a single middle finger on the right. Okay, maybe not the middle finger. If she had ever been compelled to vote before I bet she would have voted Republican (knowing some of her Moms beliefs), but she really doesn’t believe in what they were selling.
JordanRules
@Omnes Omnibus: I actually think there is much to learn in the process. And hell, part of being a Democrat means that we’re not going to be in lockstep so that almost means they’re really in! I kid! I get your frustration.
But we did have a lucky head start.
Heirn
@JordanRules: I get what you are saying. I am from a rural area that is, stuck in the whole R thing. Getting away from the home area, has given me a greater perspective on the nation as a whole, which I am sure has opened my eyes. The best thing I could have done was moving away and getting a chance to meet people that have had a different life experience than I have had. I now understand, truly understand how important it is to expand your outlook on life.
Cliff in NH
how about listening to some music?
Its a nice long show, recommended by someone here ages ago…
http://www.mixcloud.com/dubwisegaragecollection/bob-marley-and-the-wailers-the-music-inn-lenox-ma-june-18-1978-one-of-bobs-longest-shows/
fuckwit
It’s a frothy mixture: http://spreadingsantorum.com/
Man on dog! Man on dog!
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@JordanRules:
I didn’t come from a long line of Democrats — everyone else in my family is a Republican — and yet I was able to figure out from an early age that Reagan and the rest of the Republicans were full of shit. The only vote I ever cast for a Republican was when I voted for Ford over Carter in a grade school election. Meanwhile, my older brother (by 6 years) still keeps pictures of Reagan on his desk.
And, yes, I get annoyed when people who voted for Bush — twice, even! — lecture me about how I’m not a real liberal because I don’t agree with their purity test. It’s like the Catholic converts who try to “explain” how I’m wrong about Catholicism or Catholic dogma and that they know the religion I was raised in better than I do, because shut up, that’s why.
JordanRules
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): I hear ya. As Little Boots said the purity stuff is pretty stupid all around.
Lapsed catholics on one side of my fam and practicing baptists on the other and I learned independently at an early age that organized religion wasn’t for me.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): I think I’ve only voted for a Rethug once, Insurance Comish. I just couldn’t pull the lever(well, fill in the bubble) for ol’ Cruz.
El Cid
All of this support of murderers, tyrants, and genocidalists was useless and about thievery and domination.
It wasn’t about “anti-Communism,” or countering the Soviets or Chinese, and it sure as hell wasn’t about making you or I better off or safer.
Our government in our names backed murderers, tyrants, and genocidalists because they genuinely opposed freedom, power, democracy, and a better life for the inhabitants of most of the world.
They weren’t pushed into it because of Soviet moves or intimidation, any more than the English and French colonized Africa in the late 1800s simply as a defensive move against a growing Germany.
The US power structure opposed genuine democracy and equality in South Africa for the same reasons they opposed it in Asia and Latin America — because it threatened to overturn the concentrated and generally racially hierarchically preferred wealth and power.
We really do an admirable job of excusing our foreign policy leadership of any possible reason for a century of exporting thuggery by continually forced into such rotten positions by other people and their Communism or whatever.
That’s why US power genuinely has no idea what to do or say coherently about South America right now, because those nations have genuinely and democratically (which isn’t to say perfectly) moved out from under the US-Euuropean control system they were expected to (and subjected to murderous intervention to) remain subject to.
Villago Delenda Est
@Omnes Omnibus:
It’s not unlike the phenomenon of ex-smokers who are very zealous about enforcing no-smoking rules, or alcoholics on the wagon who jump all over those who fall off if, for whatever reason.
Converts tend to be really serious about whatever it is they converted to. Perhaps in an effort to suppress any doubts they may have about their conversion, and to shore up said conversion.
OmerosPeanut
“Jambala” strikes me as a more apt name for the camp, at least from the Cons’ perspective.
Karla
Can anyone tell me whom Mandela is accused of killing? I can’t find anything specific, just vague accusations that lean towards the unhinged.
Cervantes
@Karla: Can anyone tell me whom Mandela is accused of killing?
There was actual killing, not merely accusation thereof. For details, you could look into the founding of, and actions taken by, Umkhonto we Sizwe, the armed wing of the African National Congress.
Of course, there was also far more killing undertaken by the proponents and enforcers of apartheid.