Swear to God I'm not making this up: When I went to load the Downfall clip (real one) on YouTube just now, a Heritage Action ad popped up.
— billmon (@billmon1) October 16, 2013
From the Washington Post liveblog:
Eighteen Republicans vote against the Senate deal to reopen the government — including all three major potential 2016 GOP presidential candidates: Sens. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.), Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) and Rand Paul (R-Ky.).
The others were Sens. Tom Coburn (Okla.), John Cornyn (Tex.), Mike Crapo (Idaho), Mike Enzi (Wyo.), Chuck Grassley (Iowa), Dean Heller (Nev.), Ron Johnson (Wis.), Mike Lee (Utah), Jim Risch (Idaho), Pat Roberts (Kan.), Tim Scott (S.C.), Jeff Sessions (Ala.), Richard Shelby (Ala.), Pat Toomey (Pa.) and David Vitter (La.).
Remember, your life could always be worse — you could be living in Alabama.
(Apologies in advance to any readers who might actually be living in that misfortunate state.)
***********
ETA: Per the Post (once again), House vote’s due around 10:30pm, after an hour of ‘floor debate’ which is being livestreamed over there.
PsiFighter37
I do wonder how on earth Richard Shelby ever used to be a Democrat.
Guess we get to wait and see how many dead-enders exist in the GOP caucus. All I have to say is – enough of them better vote with the Democrats. If something goes wrong, this will get ugly fast.
Baud
Wasn’t Grassley regarded as a moderate at some point long, long ago?
JPL
What’s up with the Senate race in New Jersey?
Cris (without an H)
Any word on when the House is going to vote?
Baud
@JPL:
Do polls close at 8 or 9 Eastern?
Anoniminous
@JPL:
@Baud:
8:00
Freemark
I live in Pennsabama. I have Toomey as my Senator and Scott Perry one of the most conservative reps in the country as my congressman. He is the most conservative in PA. It sucks.
lamh36
Ooh, Plouffe trolling Cruz:
MikeJ
@JPL: Results:
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/10/booker_vs_lonegan_county-by-county_voting_results_in_us_senate_election.html
madmommy
Of course my congressvarmint Diaper Dave Vitter is on that list. Why am I not even a little bit surprised?
Dolly Llama
@PsiFighter37: He was one of those Zell Miller-esque “I didn’t leave the Democrat Party, the party left me!” types. Like all the rest of the cracker lawmakers who were Democrats 30 years ago. Not a micron of daylight between them and the modern GOP.
JPL
@Baud: I’m not sure… I just found this site though http://www.nj.com/
dmsilev
CSPAN: House might start the vote around 9:30 Eastern. About a half an hour of babbling to go.
lamh36
Baud
@JPL:
Thanks. I was hoping it would be called quickly.
C. Isaac
As I posted at the end of the previous thread: The Guardian’s getting shrill now. Stock in fainting couch manufacturer’s just went up.
JPL
@Baud: Hopefully someone with more knowledge will pipe in again, but I’m thinking the 5 or 6 percent lead is because the larger urban areas haven’t weighed in yet.
monkeyfister
Wait!
Why would need the raw “Downfall” clip… unless… just maybe, Billmon is fixin’ to make a “Hitler Finds Out About…” video. No time to chat, gotta get the popcorn loaded in!
lamh36
Please proceed…House GOP!
raven
@Baud: 8
C. Isaac
@lamh36:
… it’s like watching a trainwreck. I can’t look away, yet I’m horrified.
? Martin
@lamh36: Obama is making the House of Representatives sit in the back of the plane.
PsiFighter37
@lamh36: These fuckers never learn, do they? Do they really want to step on their own dicks like this?
@Dolly Llama: He did vote against Robert Bork, though…at least that is what Wikipedia tells me.
Baud
@JPL:
I’m 99.99% sure it’ll be fine, but I haven’t been paying attention to the race, so it’ll be nice to have it in the bag.
dmsilev
@lamh36: Government by six-year-olds. Maybe Obama should have offered them some ice cream cones.
IowaOldLady
@Baud: Yes, he was. You usually have to be fairly moderate to win statewide office in Iowa. Then in 2010, Grassley was afraid of a Tea Party primary and started talking about death panels. He’s gone down hill since.
JPL
@Baud: If the polls closed at 8, you would expect it to be called by now.
dmsilev
@lamh36: Chuck Toddler says something similar:
Respect needs to be _earned_, assholes.
MikeJ
@JPL: 1886 of 6330 precincts counted.52-47.
Kay
Good job :)
raven
@JPL:
– 1764 of 6330 Precincts Reporting – 28%
relax
Anoniminous
@lamh36:
Poor little baby have an owie?
Here. Rub this poultice of salt in lemon juice on it.
PsiFighter37
@dmsilev: They can start being treated with respect when they start treating the president with more respect than their ancestors treated African-Americans a couple generations ago.
Fuckshits.
Kay
@dmsilev:
Their feelings. Again. Can they find someone to talk to?
bootsy
@dmsilev: A RESPECTFUL BLACK PRESIDENT waits until the white men have finished speaking.
Baud
Yatsuno
@dmsilev: Shorter House GOP:
“RESPECT MAH AUTHORITAH, BOY!!!”
(emphasis on the boy part, but totes not racist!)
PsiFighter37
@Baud: Um, Grover, you are one of those people.
JPL
Any idea on when the house plans on voting? Do they have to search for members hiding out in the basement of Tortilla Coast?
Elizabelle
The National Zoo will reopen tomorrow.
Pandacam will be back.
CaseyL
Re NJ: It looks like Sussex, Salem and Mercer county votes haven’t been reported yet. Everyone else has reported in.
Baud
@CaseyL:
Is that good?
Hill Dweller
@dmsilev: These are the same assholes who have repeatedly attacked PO and his family. They deserve no respect.
Nevertheless, PO’s innocuous statement shouldn’t have any bearing on their votes. They’re trying to find offense.
raven
@CaseyL: So those are 72% of the votes?
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
I got stopped by the cops on I-10 in Alabama once. The officer asked me if I knew I was speeding. I replied, “Heck yeah, I’m trying to get out of this state as quickly as possible.” I still got a ticket.
MikeJ
2200 of 6330 53/46
monkeyfister
@Baud:
And so begins another Night Of The Long Knives for the Republican Party. I can’t wait for Tommy’s Obsession With FReeperville on Monday. I bet it’s Bedlam in there right now.
JPL
@raven: It’s a nine point lead now so I’m chillin…
raven
@JPL: whew
dan
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ymPpIzaanhY&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DymPpIzaanhY
IowaOldLady
@Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader: Can’t understand why the cop would still ticket you.
Helen
@dmsilev: JFC Did Chuckles not hear me in that last thread?
SHUT UP CHUCKLES.
Jeebus – when he talked about how “everyone” should apologize he actually said “I have friends who are not rich who have been affected by the shut-down” I didn’t believe him then and I definitely don’t believe him now. If he had those types of friends they would have clued him in.
SHUT SHUT SHUT THE FUCK UP CHUCKLES
Anoniminous
@JPL:
Calm down.
It’s a special election which throws previous voter and precinct profiles out the window and there hasn’t been enough polling on the election for it to to be called this early.
dmsilev
@Kay:
I think we collectively have somehow become their therapist.
Somehow the payment for my services seems to have gotten lost in the mail. How about you?
ranchandsyrup
Gwen Ifill’s having some fun with Chuckie Todd on the twitters: https://twitter.com/gwenifill/status/390641805186064384
Baud
Obama was waving his dick at the House GOP again, wasn’t he?
Damn him!
lamh36
@dmsilev:
LeftCoastTom
@Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader: Were you speeding on your way to the Alabama section of Florida, or to Mississippi?
Omnes Omnibus
@Kay: Johnson has been taking heat from local Tea folk over the past few weeks. This was an opportunity to burnish his asshole cred. And given the expected outcome of the vote he was able to do it without fear for being the guy who caused the country to default. Doesn’t make him any less of a douchecanoe.
CaseyL
@Baud: @raven: I don’t actually know; I’m hoping someone here is from New Jersey. I’m just going by the map NYTimes has up by its election results ticker:
http://www.nytimes.com/projects/elections/2013/nj-special/senate/map.html
Though, with everyone else in the state reporting in, that’s just 35% of the vote. I assume that means the other 65% are in those three counties.
Trenton appears to be in Mercer county, so there’s that.
dmsilev
@monkeyfister:
RedState has already declared a purge of those who betrayed the Party. Show trials to commence next week, and I’m pretty sure they’ll start airbrushing people out of photos real soon now.
Helen
@PsiFighter37: The “You Lie” at the State of the Union party is talking about respect.
IowaOldLady
@Kay: Seriously. These guys need to go out and get a real job and see what happens when they flounce out the office because someone hurt their feelings.
dmsilev
OK, House is now in session. Should be voting soon.
MattR
@CaseyL: I think this has better results. It shows the number of precincts in each county that have reported results.
Ex. only 139 of 450 precincts have reported from Hudson county which is strong Booker territory.
MikeJ
2623 of 6330 55/44
trollhattan
BBC:
Would one of you Virginians, or West Virginians, or DeeCeeians, please go to Sterling and explain to Bryan Nolan what “exponential” fucking means?
Thank you.
America
raven
Jamie Dupree @jamiedupree 24s
House gets unanimous consent to bring up the Senate passed budget and debt limit deal
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
@LeftCoastTom: I honestly don’t remember if I was coming or going.
cp
I’m honestly shocked that both Georgia senators voted to pass this thing. I would have expected those @$$wipes to be hand-in-hand with Alabama. I still fully expect House “Democrat” John effing Barrow to vote against it.
Baud
@raven:
Good news!
dmsilev
@trollhattan: Well, there’s such a thing as a decaying exponential. Maybe that’s what they meant?
Liberty60
@dmsilev:
They’re goddamn right.
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
@IowaOldLady: Sometimes the pigs appreciate honesty. And sometimes, “Isn’t a gun without bullets just a big stick, officer?” gets you roughed up pretty good.
raven
@cp: Saxby isn’t running.
CaseyL
Ooh, I take back what I said: a lot of the counties I thought had reported all their results haven’t. My bad; I misinterpreted the map (you gotta let the cursor hover over each county to get the percent of votes reporting).
Who knew one little interactive map could be such fun?
Omnes Omnibus
@Liberty60: Ha!
MikeJ
@Liberty60: And they got as much respect as they deserve. Vote it down. I dare you. I double dog dare you.
patrick II
Those three republican congressmen/presidential primary candidates will split the total sociopath vote and Christie will take the nomination by being the sole owner of the only partly sociopath vote.
MattR
@MattR: FWIW, here are the results of the 2012 presidential election in NJ which might be useful to get a better idea of how the counties lean.
Short answer is that Sussex is red, Mercer is blue and Salem is pretty split (and Mercer should have more votes than the other two combined)
raven
@Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader: I got stopped for speeding in May, 82 in a 55 which is like a fucking DUI in Georgia. Dude asked me what was up and I said I had no excuse, I got out to pass and had to haul ass to make it. He went to his squad, came back and said “You were so good about this I’m dropping it to 71” Then he asked if I still road a bike (it’s on the GA license). Bein cool with the heat is a good idea.
lamh36
lamh36
Of course not…IDIOTS!
dmsilev
@MikeJ: I don’t think they will spike it. It’s on the House floor now, with a max of 1 hour debate before the vote. And it will only take a couple dozen R votes to make it pass. R Chair of Appropriations is making the case now for voting Aye, so the leadership (so to speak) does seem to want it to pass.
PsiFighter37
@raven: I got a ticket in NC doing 80 in a 65; the only reason I got busted was a) I was passing someone on I-95, and b) the cops were hiding in a sunken median, so I didn’t see them until it was too late to do anything.
Fucking $150 ticket, the only time I’ve gotten stopped by the police. It probably didn’t help my cause that I was driving with NY plates.
Omnes Omnibus
@lamh36:
WTF is little Luke’s point?
RareSanity
@cp:
Honestly, I was shocked myself…
But when you think about it, statewide politics in Georgia is going to start getting very interesting with the population of the Atlanta Metro area getting bigger than the rest of the state.
There was really no downside to them voting for it, there’s no way in hell rural Georgia is voting for a Democrat. However, it deflects criticism from the big city folks.
raven
@PsiFighter37: $150 is what mine got reduced to. I was on a little 2 laner on the way to Savannah.
Yatsuno
@@dmsilev:
I have a tough time believing they will accept taking the debt ceiling weapon out of their hands so easily. That fat lady ain’t warming up yet.
Anoniminous
@MattR:
Looking at the map, it appears Lonegan territory is pretty well in and Booker territory is lagging in percentage reporting.
Omnes Omnibus
@RareSanity: Yeah, it sounds like their calculus was the exact opposite of Ron Johnson’s.
Bill Arnold
@trollhattan:
Politics has a way of ruining words. e.g. “sequester” or “soc1alism”. (spammers partly ruined the latter.)
MikeJ
@PsiFighter37:
I got stopped at a similar speed in Missouri. The only thing that saved me was that I was 15, didn’t have a driver’s license, and was midway between my starting point of Denver and my destination, Memphis. Just way, way too much of a hassle
MomSense
OT but with all of this shutdown drama I did a lot of nervous knitting and designed two pieces. I also figured that it was a good idea to have the needles out and sharp just in case things escalated to guillotines.
raven
@Omnes Omnibus: Assuming that limp-dick, draft-dodging , mealy-mouth motherfucker can calculate.
MattR
@PsiFighter37: I got pulled over in SC doing 75 in a 65. I saw the cop and didn’t even bother to slop down. I was absolutely shocked when he came out and turned on his lights. In the end, I was told that there had been a couple of bears hit recently and was given a written warning to slow down. Seems like one of those flashing signs would have been a more efficient way to notify drivers so I wondered if he saw the NJ plates and decided to check me out.
(EDIT: I also got pulled over for suspicion of drunk driving in NC while in a car with NY plates. But it was 3 am, I was lost and the other passengers were passed out and unable to help so I probably looked drunk as I kept slowing down and switching lanes trying to read street signs. Despite being stone cold sober it was still a pretty nerve wracking experience.)
Kay
@Omnes Omnibus:
Thanks.
I just heard Sherrod Brown on the radio and for some (probably good) reason he’s making a big deal out of the “southern” aspect of this. “Radical Right southerners in districts in the south with people who are like them and talk (!) like them…”
He never sounds angry or unhinged, and he didn’t, but I just thought it was interesting he kept hitting on the “southern” theme. He’s an able politician. Probably deliberate.
lamh36
@Omnes Omnibus: Luke and ChuckT have all been talking about how Obamas speech pissed on House GOP…whatever
Bill Arnold
Booker declared winner. (http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/10/booker_vs_lonegan_county-by-county_voting_results_in_us_senate_election.html)
Baud
@Kay:
I saw him do that on MSNBC just now also. Interesting development.
@Bill Arnold:
Finally!
monkeyfister
@dmsilev:
The RINOs will FEEEEEL the POWER of Eric Infinitum and his Trike Farce yet… youbetcha… and it’ll hurt!
Right.
Fun to watch, fer shur!
GregB
It’s been called for Booker.
The only elected African-American in the US Senate.
Baud
raven
@GregB: Yes! He’s Rachel’s buddy too.
CaseyL
Twitter says AP has called the NJ Senate race for Booker, but I can’t find any sources for that.
dmsilev
@Baud: But Lonegan _swore_ that he’d be the guy to stop Obamacare. What will we do now without him?
monkeyfister
@GregB:
Just seeing that spread gives me hope that America is done with the Teabaggers.
55%
44%
The INDies make up the rest.
PsiFighter37
@MikeJ: Driving while 15 years old? I’m impressed, although I wonder how you ended up in that situation.
And although I distrust his motives at times, congrats to Booker for winning the special election. It was probably closer than it should have been, but he’s got a lock on that seat until he decides he wants to run for president.
JPL
@Bill Arnold: After Scott Brown’s win against a terrible candidate, one (me) has to be concerned. Congrats to Booker. .
raven
@dmsilev: He is a viscous fucker.
Breezeblock
AP calling it for the Dem Booker! Awesome!!!
Helen
@Bill Arnold: Rachael hasn’t called it. She’s in commercial. She’ll come back with the election music I bet.
jl
@lamh36: If the House GOP wants some bigshot to give a national talk just for them, they might get their wish. Hope it makes them happy. I read Obama has a statement for tomorrow.
Maybe he’ll stay up to have statement tonight.
Why not give them three whacks? Of increasing severity.
Baud
@JPL:
That, and the fact that it’s so much harder to turn out Dems.
Omnes Omnibus
@CaseyL: How about this?
RareSanity
@Omnes Omnibus:
Ron Johnson doesn’t have to deal with the same demographics as Isakson and Chambliss. They may be crazy, but they ain’t stupid.
The people of Wisconsin have no one to blame but themselves for electing that cad.
raven
@jl: Nah, he said tomorrow and he meant it.
CaseyL
@Omnes Omnibus: :D
Anoniminous
Congratulations Senator Booker.
lamh36
BWHAHAHAHAHAHA
@ezraklein 1m
Ted Cruz was just Obama behind a mask! MT @KarlRove: “Republicans Walked Into Obama’s Trap”
raven
RACHEL CALLS IT FOR BOOKER!
Mike E
@cp: Yeah, and Mike McIntyre too.
Helen
@Helen: Told ya – The music and Rachel just called it for Booker.
MattR
@Baud: It seems like Lonegan’s entire strategy was to attach Booker to Obamacare in order to get his base to come out to vote. Looks like it may have had the effect of getting pro-Obamacare Democrats to hit the polls as well.
IowaOldLady
I just saw a thing at Kos that said the bill they’re voting on has McConnell’s debt ceiling deal–the one that says the president can raise the debt ceiling and congress has to vote to stop him. He can veto them, so they need a 2/3 majority to go over that cliff. Does that sound accurate?
raven
When Booker is sworn in (week of Oct 28), Democrats will again have 55 votes in the Senate
Dupree
LeftCoastTom
@Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader: Ah, well considering the possible destinations, it really is hard to understand how you ended up getting a ticket with your response.
4 tickets over my lifetime, the only one that pisses me off is 74 in a 60 on a road with nothing but sagebrush around. Afterwards I hiked a nearby peak (at night), and saw that the officer was pretty much pulling everyone over (two cars per hour is a reasonable nighttime traffic volume).
Comrade Mary
Booker in Senate? That’s cool.
Baud
@MattR:
Republicans should use this strategy in November 2014, when millions of people will actually have health insurance through Obamacare.
RareSanity
@efgoldman:
I heard someone say it at work today and it made me giggle, so I thought I’d give it a shot.
CaseyL
This is a good, good night! Debt limit deal mostly a done deal; Democrats keep the Senate seat in NJ; and Tea Party widely loathed from sea to shining sea.
cp
@RareSanity: I live in Savannah, which is relatively blue. Regardless of upsides or downsides, I guess I assumed they would vote ideologically. This is one case where I’m glad to be wrong!
PsiFighter37
@Mike E: McIntyre should just vote straight-line Democratic. He’s almost certainly going to lose next year…wouldn’t be surprised if the DCCC decides it’s not worth the money to try and save his ass.
dmsilev
@lamh36: They still haven’t figured it out, have they? The only trap they walked into was the one they built for themselves.
raven
@RareSanity: Snidely Whiplash was a cad.
MikeJ
@CaseyL:
Other than the baseball. Dammit.
Omnes Omnibus
@RareSanity:
Well since they are the only ones who could vote in that election, who else would you blame? Also, you might have missed my comment above on Johnson’s motivation.
Baud
@IowaOldLady:
I don’t think that’s accurate. I don’t think the President can raise the debt ceiling to pay for new debt.
dmsilev
Interesting. The Rs and Ds had been taking turns talking for a minute each, but all of a sudden the Rs have stopped taking their time. Maybe they ran out of people willing to get up and vocally support the bill.
LeftCoastTom
@Omnes Omnibus: Feingold for not focusing on being an effective Senator while he held the office?
Omnes Omnibus
@dmsilev: Any idea how many Rs spoke in favor?
raven
@cp: Savannah blue? That’s why that scumbag asshole Barrow votes the way he does?
IowaOldLady
@Baud: Here’s the quote from Kos’s front page:
“It also includes language allowing President Obama to waive the debt ceiling, which could be overridden by a vote of disapproval by Congress that could then be vetoed by the president”
Patricia Kayden
@GregB: But I thought Palin’s rally for Lonegan would have cinched it for him. Who knew?
Omnes Omnibus
@LeftCoastTom: In what way do you think he was not effective?
Yatsuno
@MikeJ: I am a big believer in seven game contests. Even if it gives you ulcers.
(I kan still haz challah?)
LeftCoastTom
@Baud: Depends on what the hopefully-soon-to-be-passed-law says. After all, the “debt ceiling” itself doesn’t really make sense, if you don’t like the first derivative of the debt then either vote for tax increases or spending cuts.
JPL
@Comrade Mary: What’s really cool is we can now say his name without being put in moderation. Thank you wp…
Kay
@efgoldman:
Right, it’s true, but I would hope they could isolate WI and PA Senators as too conservative for those states. They have to run statewide and they shouldn’t count on a wave election that goes their way coming around every 6 years. The truth is 2010 was a wave election.
Brown himself knows this, because he came in on the 2006 wave but he’ll always have to run in a 50/50 state.
CaseyL
Now I’m watching CSPAN, listening to Rep. Scott (D- GA) extol Mitch McConnell’s virtues. Not sure if he’s being sincere or very subtly undermining Turtleboy.
dmsilev
@IowaOldLady: That’s wonderful news. Basically defuses the bomb permanently.
Baud
@IowaOldLady:
I didn’t read it that way, but I read it really quickly.
PsiFighter37
@dmsilev: I feel like this has to be read closely…if the GOP is really voting to let that through, they’re even stupider than I thought. Come February, they’ll try to take the hostage again, only to discover it’s a mannequin.
dmsilev
Nancy Pelosi taking a 1 minute speech. Vote should be close now; I imagine she’s the last of the D speakers.
Omnes Omnibus
@LeftCoastTom: Of course the logical way to do it is to have the authorization of the expenditure also authorize the debt ceiling to rise accordingly as needed.
Jennifer
If you want some fun, go on over to NRO and read Jonah Goldberg frantically handwaving about “move along, nothing to see here.”
Then read the comments.
I never thought I’d recommend to anyone that they read anything by Goldberg (or at NRO) but trust me, the cannibalism taking place in the comments is well worth it.
IowaOldLady
If the debt limit has been taken away as a weapon, we’ll get wailing and gnashing of teeth. Awesome.
Roxy
Ha. Got you pikers beat. I got two speeding tickets from our beloved CHP within 45 minutes of each other. I was clocked doing 80 mph in a 65 mph zone on 580 heading towards Livermore. The other one was on highway 4 just outside Copperopolis. My dad said all of us kids should have been born with a racing helmet and racing gloves.
lamh36
LeftCoastTom
@Omnes Omnibus: Not voting for Dodd-Frank because it was insufficiently pure, leaving Reid to shift the law rightward to pick up Scott Brown’s (R-Cosmo) vote, would be at the top of my list. Not voting to close Gitmo because the bill wouldn’t win anyway and wouldn’t do everything it should is an example of similar behavior, but given the lopsided vote to keep Gitmo open…not in the same league as the Dodd-Frank vote.
C. Isaac
@CaseyL:
I think this is carefully orchestrated. The Democrats are sticking the knives in repeatedly.
There is a lot of very overly effusive praise coming out for Turtle and it’s looking like this:
MattR
Lonegan giving his concession speech. Such a shame I can’t find it on TV anywhere. I am sure he was very gracious.
Omnes Omnibus
@LeftCoastTom: That’s some votes you disagree with, not ineffectiveness. YMMV.
Anya
@lamh36: I am sick of these assholes. The president had to give assurances to the Asian stock market that’s about to open. Those two fuckers piss me off more than the teahadists.
dmsilev
Vote in House starting now. 15 minute vote, so we’ll know soon enough.
Mike E
@PsiFighter37: He’s toast, and also a dumbass. Put a fork in McConnell as well. Too.
RareSanity
@cp:
It is kind of nice not to have Georgia be included in the joke, isn’t it?
We’d better enjoy it while we can, you and I both know this is temporary.
@raven:
I concur. He is indeed, Sir.
@Omnes Omnibus:
Aw come on Omnes…this is a happy night. I was really just looking for a chance to use the word ‘cad’, I wasn’t trying disagree with you.
LeftCoastTom
@Omnes Omnibus: The ‘top of my list’ was a vote that had the opposite effect from the claimed purpose.
Anoniminous
Voting has started. 13 GOP voted Aye. If the Dems move together it’s done.
MattR
@Roxy: I had a friend get three tickets in two hours driving on Rt 17 from Binghamton to NYC. He thought showing the third officer the other two tickets would help his cause, but surpisingly it didn’t. Not sure what the end result ended up being or how much money he had to pay in legal fees to get them knocked down enough to keep his license.
Baud
@Anoniminous:
Already up to 18 GOP votes. It’s over.
CaseyL
Weird thing with the House vote: first they had a voice vote and declared the bill passed, then there was an objection, and now they’re taking an official vote.
Anyone know what that’s about? Don’t they just want to get this over with?
scav
yes.
JPL
@Anoniminous: Nineteen repubs so far which means, I can sign off and go to bed..
Liberty60
@trollhattan:
Well, to be fair, if the debt is increasing at a rate of 10 to the negative power, it is still increasing exponentially.
Mebbe thats what he meant?
dmsilev
So far, 19 Republican Aye votes so far (and only 17 Nays). Assuming no Democrats vote no, that’s enough for passage.
Looks like we’ve dodged the bullet. Barely.
LeftCoastTom
@CaseyL: Maybe some teabagger in a derp Red district wanted to be on the record? Depends on who objected, of course.
TopClimber
@IowaOldLady: I did a quick read of the text that the WP put up. I think they are only talking about bills that may be incurred before Feb. 8 but not paid before the debt limit is breached. Otherwise it would mean the GOP is giving up its debt limit cudgel for good, which, unfortunately, is just too good to be true.
Still, it is a way for Mitch to get a trial run for his brainchild, which he likes for future debt controversies because the Prez gets all the blame for lifting the limit.
Anoniminous
@Baud:
Now it’s 22 GOP votes for Aye and I cannot conceive of that many Dems defecting. Yup. Done
IowaOldLady
@TopClimber: Oh sad. It did sound too good to be true. I still hope it is, but I cede to someone who’s actually read the thing.
Yatsuno
@Anoniminous: Back to work for me on Friday plus hopefully I get all my leave restored too. I get the feeling they’ll wait until Monday at this point, but we’ll see.
CaseyL
I don’t see any Democratic Nays yet. Assuming there are Dems who would vote “no” on this, Pelosi must’ve told them they better wait until it would very clearly pass without them before they voted.
rikyrah
The President’s Statement
http://youtu.be/hAnRik_DTzA
Omnes Omnibus
@Anoniminous: At this point then, I wouldn’t be surprised if 50-60 Rs vote for it. They have cover.
Anya
@Anoniminous: I think the 7 cowards who voted with the lunatics on the government shutdown will vote no again.
Baud
@IowaOldLady:
I don’t think the prohibited the Treasury from taking “extraordinary action” to extend the debt limit, so maybe February 2014 really means July 2014. GOP will not want to do this again so close to the election.
cp
@raven: In 2012 Chatham County went Obama 55-43. Barrow took a lot of heat here for his votes against the ACA and other Dem priorities. He’s actually been gerrymandered out to the boonies, and I couldn’t believe he stayed alive after that. Effing moran Jack Kingston now “represents” me.
JPL
@Anoniminous: Good news indeed but I’m thinking at least 30 repubs because they dont’ want to be accused of tanking the economy.
PsiFighter37
@CaseyL: That makes sense. Nancy Smash knows how many chickens have hatched before letting everyone know it’s time to make some omelets.
Baud
@rikyrah:
Why you disrespect the GOP?
Comrade Scrutinizer
@Liberty60: A power function is different from an exponential function.
Yatsuno
@Omnes Omnibus: That’s 50-60 potential party purity purges. Suddenly the House doesn’t look so far out of reach.
lamh36
I have never watched Hannity and I don’t plan to now either. But damn to be a fly on the wall for this:
This idiot is gonna burn the party down!
lamh36
dmsilev
29 R Ayes so far (and about 42 Nays). I think we’re fine.
CaseyL
@Yatsuno: Yay for going back to work, and getting your back pay!
RareSanity
@JPL:
Count just hit 30 republican ‘yea’…
Anoniminous
@Yatsuno:
You’ll also get paid for that vacation you’ve had. You moocher.
:-)
JPL
Amazing, now up to 33 repub votes..
Gordon, the Big Express Engine
Cruz and Lee crying sad wingnut tears and lying their asses off on Hannity!
Yatsuno
@CaseyL: Oh and Friday will be a fun day. I’m going to get to say no. A lot. :)
Baud
@JPL:
They probably want to have just enough so that no one gets singled out too badly.
CaseyL
Oh, there’s one Dem voting Nay. Anyone know who?
…. and now that vote has vanished.
JPL
@Gordon, the Big Express Engine: Oh do tell, it was Obama’s fault, right!
Omnes Omnibus
@JPL: Once they know it is going to pass, some will take action to be on the winning side. Some are in purplish districts and will want to polish their “sane” cred.
RareSanity
@CaseyL:
C-SPAN isn’t showing any Dems voting nay…just 138 voting yea.
PsiFighter37
@lamh36: Too bad there’s been no move to confirm the 3 justices to the DC Court of Appeals. That would’ve been a nice little add-on.
Oh well, wait until these idiots in the Teabagger Caucus dick-stomp themselves again in a few months. The wonderful thing with these morons is that there will always be another chance for them to prove their stupidity.
J.Ty
89 GOP votes for secession so far.
Drexciya
I realize that this is supposed to be a joke, but it’s a pretty commonly expressed sentiment that I find annoying. Can we stop pretending like southern states are only populated by white people you disagree with? Not only do the majority of black people still live there (or come from there), but Alabama in particular is the birthplace of Angela Davis, Sun Ra, Rosa Parks, John Lewis, Fred Shuttlesworth and it was ground zero for the bravest, bloodiest, and best organized fight for democratic representation and human rights in this country’s history. When the south is dismissed, you similarly dismiss the history of the people who successfully struggled to change it – and still struggle under the conditions of a history whose effects are country-wide, and not just southwardly fixed (fun fact: that’s the same city that actually dropped a bomb in a black neighborhood in the 80’s).
There’s a lot of racial and political convenience tied up into south-bashing and I could deal with it a little bit better if it didn’t use black erasure as a means of centering and highlighting the importance/power of white people. And not that this should matter, but pretty much all of those black people vote Democrat and in states like Georgia there’s a real opportunity for POC’s – and black people in particular – to stand as majorities. Forgetting that they exist and forgetting that those POC’s do more and go through more to exercise their right to vote than most of you do is openly insulting and it should stop.
Yes, we can return to our much deserved celebration now.
And yes, I am an Alabama resident. (I also think Atlanta is one of the most culturally important and musically/stylistically influential cities in America right now, but that’s a totally different thread)
CaseyL
@RareSanity: I could swear I saw a “Nay.” No matter; it’s gone now.
Omnes Omnibus
@CaseyL: @RareSanity: Might have just hit the wrong button by accident.
Mike E
>216 yea votes, the motion is approved.
No Dem nays as yet.
ETA Red Stripe, hooray beer!
Baud
218!
USA lives!
lamh36
@Gordon, the Big Express Engine:
dmsilev
Over the top!
Onward to the next crisis! (sorry)
Cervantes
@PsiFighter37: I do wonder how on earth Richard Shelby ever used to be a Democrat.
He was a southern Democrat. Need I say more?
He switched parties in 1994, one day after the Republicans took over the House and Senate in the mid-terms. Again, need I say more?
CaseyL
OK; that’s well and truly and finally done.
Whew.
On the one hand, if it weren’t for Boehner, we could’ve had this done, what, 2 weeks ago?
OTOH, the last two weeks have been ruinous for the Tea Party.
Cris (without an H)
Yeas just passed 217.
Gordon, the Big Express Engine
@JPL: no senate re pubs missed an opportunity, didn’t listen to the millions of Americans who don’t want ocare. Americans are losing jobs healthcare in droves! Yadda yadda yadda
Liberty60
Next up- Immigration reform!
Gawd the wailing is going to be epic.
What is good about this, is the idea that I first heard mentioned by Dennis G here, that the conservative movement is refighting the Civil War, that they see this as an existential battle for their survival, is now openly spoken about in mainstream press.
Its getting harder and harder for the Beltway to practice Broderism with people waving Confederate flags.
Oh, and if it seems cruel to delight in the wailing of wingnuts, wade through the sewers over there a bit- I saw a few commenters openly calling for assassination.
Spike the ball? Fuck that. The Dems need to go full Sherman.
jl
@rikyrah: Thanks I was looking for that clop. Sooooo… disrespectful. Who does he think he is, the effing President or something?
I guess it was disrespectful because Obama did not say he learned his lesson and promised to surrender in February.
I hope the House disrespects Obama by having a lot of GOPers vote for the bill, leaving the teabaggers all off by their lonesome. That would a nice exhibit of mutual disrespect, for somebody, not saying who, just saying.
Gordon, the Big Express Engine
Shorter Cruz: senate r’s fucked us.
PsiFighter37
@dmsilev: I was going to say – I can’t wait to break out the popcorn to see the GOP fight, but apparently all the House hardliners gave Orange Julius a little bit of love today. To which I say – why? By following their lead, they made him – and the rest of their fellow Teabaggers – look like fucking morons.
Oh well. They’ll have another chance to act like shitheads in a few months, in which case they’ll be slapped down again. If this becomes a quarterly occurrence, I can see the House GOP treading dangerously close to losing the House come November 2014.
dmsilev
Looks like votes in favor will be all Democrats and ~35-40% of the Republicans.
RareSanity
Man, does Nancy SMASH run a tight ship or what?
I imagine her saying: “The only statement that will be made with this vote is a complete repudiation of the House GOP…by every single one of you. You can make re-election statements another time.”
Baud
MSNBC (including Luke Russert) praising Pelosi (correctly so).
Birthmarker
@LeftCoastTom: snort
Botsplainer
So is Cruz putting up the money for the gaming license personally?
Gordon, the Big Express Engine
@Liberty60: frank rich tweeted that Obama immediately pivoting to immigration reform is his way of shooting the wounded in the GOP civil war
Anoniminous
283 Aye, 138 Nay with
8887 GOP AyeJesus. Boehner looks like a major jackass
Kay
@lamh36:
He can complain, but Ted Cruz was the New(est) Leader in the GOP. He came right after Marco Rubio who was the prior Newest Leader.
He’s supposed to be able to get people to follow him.
lamh36
CaseyL
Obama said he would sign this “immediately.” How does that work? Someone prints out a copy and hotfoots it over to the WH? Is the President sitting in the Oval Office, waiting for it, pen already in hand?
pseudonymous in nc
Looks like NancySMASH may have decided that the only cover for Blue Dog Dems on this one is not to vote. Doesn’t want any Ds in the nay column.
jl
@dmsilev: That’s more House GOPers than I thought, but still not enough. Hope more than that vote yea. But 35 to 40 percent, that is a very good number. Not that I would count on them without a big political stick handy.
Gordon, the Big Express Engine
Cruz not delusional. He knew this was a loser from the start. Playing long game.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Oh god, Chris Shays. I have more respect for the Tea Baggers than this little worm.
mai naem
@MattR: I think Lonegam did a little of Cory Booker , blackity blackity black, mayor of a blackity blackity black welfare queens and young bucks city. Also, too.
I got pulled over for couple of years ago. I had had a godawful day at work and, apparently, wasn’t paying attention and the cop pulled me over because when I pulled out of a 7/11 I went straight to the second lane instead of going into lane 1 first and then to lane 2. She asked me if I had been drinking and I told her no(I rarely drink.) Now, there’s a 2nd cop car and I am now asked like 2 more times “have you been drinking?” and I’m getting a little upset and they take that as a sign that I’ve been drinking – so the 2nd cop is asking a trick question”when’s the last time you drank?”. and my answer is “oh, maybe a year ago.” They put me through a sobriety test which is something I have never been through and I am trying my best to be really polite because I am thinking of the hassle of having somebody p/u my car, getting my blood drawn etc. , Meanwhile Cop 1 is looking through my car and she finally says all you have in there is water and iced coffee. No shit sherlock. The first time ever I was actually a little scared at a traffic stop.
LeftCoastTom
@Drexciya: Well, as a white outsider looking at the region…I’d probably be a lot happier talking about Alabama and Mississippi if it weren’t for the 95% white R vote in what are, really, among the poorest states in the country. I’m aware of the high African American population in those states, but damn…not ignoring the black population in those states.
sparky
Ha ha. Repubs tried to go with a Yea/Nay vote, and the Dems said “Naw man, let’s do it electronically.” Know your enemy/No you’re enemy.
Baud
@CaseyL:
Pretty much.
RareSanity
@CaseyL:
Probably just fax it…he signs it, then faxes it back.
j/k
LOL
Birthmarker
@Drexciya: Thanks for this! I was just going to point out that 26% of Alabama is AA and leave it at that.
lamh36
Omnes Omnibus
@jl: The hard core tea partiers are not that numerous. More are tea-curious but not suicidal.
dmsilev
Final vote: 285-144, 4 none voting. No Democrats voted against, about 80 Republicans voted Aye.
scav
@CaseyL: He’s hopping up and down on one foot next to the fax-photocopier with his favorite BIC.
Redshirt
Love the imagery/symbology/strait up awesomeness of an African American Senator getting elected the same night Obama puts the Repukes into Check Mate. 11D, y’all!
Anoniminous
@CaseyL:
Once the House clerk vets the vote it is sent immediately to the WH.
Where our President is sitting at the rosewood desk, pen in one hand, a beer in the other, and Lily Allen’s song “Fuck You” blaring on the stereo.
Cris (without an H)
Motion to Concur with the Senate Amendments passes, 285-143. 2D and 2R not voting. No Ds voted nay.
FormerSwingVoter
@Drexciya: Woah, man.
This may sound weird, but I think I kinda needed to hear that.
JPL
@CaseyL: Pretty much but he’s in his jammies…
Redshirt
Now we can gloat. For the moment!
FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING TREASONOUS IDIOTS!
Gordon, the Big Express Engine
Okay. Cruz not delusional. Bachman? Completely nuts on Hannity right now.
CaseyL
Wonder if the signing will be televised…
@JPL: I would love to see our President in his jammies signing the bill and laughing.
Baud
@Anoniminous:
Exactly as required by the Constitution.
Ash Can
Haven’t read the thread yet; apologies if this same wisecrack has been posted eleventy-billion times already.
jl
@Baud: I didn’t know the president sgned bills while drinking a beer. Perk of the office I guess.
Mike E
So, calling DougJ…who won the pool? I was under by about 6 days.
dmsilev
@Cris (without an H): One of the CSPAN announcers said that two Democrats were away from the House today due to medical issues, so those are presumably the two non-voters.
JPL
@Gordon, the Big Express Engine: Why do you feel that way? We need all the juicy details.
PhoenixRising
@CaseyL: Nope.
The signing will also not be right back after these messages about white lightning, white tornadoes or white people.
Because the bill will be in the streets looking for a brighter day.
The signing will not be televised…
Hill Dweller
Chris Shays, purported moderate, is on O’Donnell’s show attacking PO for not reaching out to legislators and rationalizing the wingnuts’ behavior.
Luke Russert, still stupid, is saying Boehner is now more popular with his caucus.
Drexciya
@LeftTomCoast
By all means, talk about it. Depending on how the discussion is framed, I might even join you. I only request that you remember who you’re talking about and maintain a non-caricatured mindfulness of not just their presence as distinct communities, but of their existences. It’s something that I don’t think comes to mind when certain amongst us glibly celebrate the idea of a southern secession and discuss southern Republicanism as though it’s a uniform dynamic that can be assumed if you live there. There are qualifications to that assumptions. I’m asking that people make them. There are people who disagree with them that suffer under such dismissal. I’m asking that you remember them.
Omnes Omnibus
@Drexciya: Is Alabama not one the poorest states in the Union? Might not that have been AL’s point? She wasn’t dumping on any individual Alabamans.
@PhoenixRising: Well played.
Baud
PsiFighter37
@lamh36: Probably because he is scared pissless of having to be a co-chair on the budget committee. It’s all fun and games to talk about starving Granny to death in theory, but will he have the balls to put up or shut up now that it’s actually for real?
JoyfulA
@Freemark: Me, too, in south-central PA. Scott Perry replaced a “moderate Republican” who was publicly feuding with district teabaggers before he decided to follow his self-imposed term limits and retire.
The GOP primary field was huge, and I’m hoping a lot of Republicans in 2014 don’t like what they wound up with.
CaseyL
@PhoenixRising: I first heard that when I was a teenager. Loved it then, love it now.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Hill Dweller: I’m waiting for someone to ask that Milquetoast self-parody if he was all worried about “spending” and “deficits” when he rubber-stamped two wars on a credit card because Dick Cheney told him to.
Anya
Wingnut tears – via GOS:
Tea Party Nation:
PsiFighter37
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Didn’t Chris Shays get his ass beaten like a rented mule by Linda McMahon in the GOP Senate primary last year?
Anoniminous
@Baud:
He is a Constitutional Scholar, after all.
@PhoenixRising:
heh Good one.
Gordon, the Big Express Engine
@JPL: without being specific since I am typing on my phone, Cruz is making a campaign style plea and crafting his words in a “he who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day” sort of way. He is packaging obvious falsehoods in a self promoting way. Bachmann has no command of the facts and is shrill in a bad way. Insane juju
scav
@Hill Dweller: How dare those mugging victims not cooperate and help get the assailant an attractive mug shot! Sue Them!
Hill Dweller
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: When Shays said he hoped PO learned a lesson from this, I was hoping someone on the panel would call him a delusional moron.
Comrade Mary
@Anoniminous: Just in case no one has had the pleasure of listening to to Ms. Allen’s masterpiece.
I suspect my investments guy has been humming this for a couple of days. I don’t think I was the only one to fall prey to panic yesterday and yank stuff into money markets.
LeftCoastTom
@Drexciya:
I’m cool with that. My responses (e.g.: my response to Fuckhead’s ticket, above) assume the environment I mentioned in my response to you, but you’re right. In fact, for one example, the entire “heritage not hate” bullcrap that encourages dismissive responses to the region, aside from being bullcrap, begs the question “whose heritage”, ignoring a huge number of people who live in the region.
Drexciya
@Omnes Omnibus
I’m not saying she was. I’m not even disagreeing with the concept of Alabama-bashing. I’m disagreeing with the idea of Alabama/southbashing without context. The dynamics that underline the white uniformity that allows for all Republican state Senates, predominately Republican representatives and exclusively Republican Senators is directly related to white proximity to black people and blackness. If you point out the symptom without dimensionally viewing the disease, you tend to write off whole folks of people in the process. And I don’t think it hurts folks to note and be reminded of the fact that, regardless of poverty, many of those communities are vibrant and have rich, deeply rooted cultural traditions, connections and rather varied political views. Dismissing them as “unfortunate” just for living there is more than a little patronizing and I don’t think it’s much of an overreaction to think so.
Even if it were, the dynamic persists elsewhere and I’ve been meaning to comment on it for a while.
jl
CBS national news says that teabaggers are enraged, feel sold out, because “they got basically nothing” I enjoy accurate news reports when I hear them.
liberal
@mai naem:
Well…even a non-swarthy white male like myself thinks that a large fraction of cops are just f*cking assholes. Of course, I have enough empathy and imagination to understand that it’s much, much worse for other folks, like AAs.
Anne Laurie
@Drexciya: I have never been an advocate for session, for just the reasons you mention. But I personally would not want to be a Person of Color living in Alabama — not even a Person of Fishbelly-Blue-to-Roan-Freckled Color, as I am.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@PsiFighter37: 73-27, per a quick google search. I guess he didn’t reach out to enough voters.
ranchandsyrup
Buh bye Hastert Rule. It’s like you never existed.
RevRick
House voted 285 -143 for the bill.
liberal
@Hill Dweller:
Shays was a freakin’ cretin. The crap about “don’t dismiss them as crazy; you have to understand them in order to…” was galling.
Drexciya
@Anne Laurie
Places in America aren’t particularly distinguished by the severity of the racism, but by the forms it takes. They would be in a similarly bad predicament in New York City or Oakland – and possibly even worse off. The shape of their racial trials would just be different.
Mike in NC
@Cervantes: Shelby was never a Democrat. He was always a Dixiecrat.
jl
@Drexciya: I noticed the comment on Alabama, but didn’t think to say anything.
I also feel uncomfortable about things that collectively insult, or dismiss a whole state or region. I met a lot of progressive and thoughtful people, both white, black, and other, in Mississippi.
Whether it is a comment on poverty, or political opinion of the majority, it is unfair to stereotype a whole region. Being from Northern California (right now, God help me, San Francisco), I know how that feels.
Though I can’t regret Florida taking the title of craziest state in the nation away from California.
gf120581
@Baud: That she is. All Dems voted yes and the two who were out with medical reasons were Carolyn McCarthy and Bobby Rush, who would have been two definite “yes” votes as well. Even Matheson and McIntyre voted yes.
That woman rules her caucus with an iron fist and she made it very clear that everyone was voting yes. Not that I think it took much effort. I think the House Dems are as fed up as the Senate Dems by this point.
Interesting that Paul Ryan voted “no” while the rest of the House GOP leadership voted “yes.” Schism growing? Paulie maybe thinking it’s time for new leadership?
Anya
@Anoniminous: Brilliant!
pseudonymous in nc
@Drexciya:
Yeah, it’s a bit like Iran.
The broader point is that it’s equally valid to point out the exasperation with a Southern politics which consistently becomes a big reason why we can’t have nice things. You can lead a redneck to water, but you can’t drop him drinking Mountain Dew.
Debbie(aussie)
@CaseyL: my fave fictional character, Stephenie Plum, lives in Trenton. Wonder how she’d vote?
Anoniminous
@Comrade Mary:
Ah, listening to Ms. Allen and dipping my popcorn into the salty tears of the Teabaggers.
It jist don’t git any better.
Chyron HR
But the GOP couldn’t have just done that a week ago, because of, you know… the reasons. And stuff.
Birthmarker
@LeftCoastTom: 95% is too high, though it is in the 80’s probably. The state dem party is also completely disfunctional.
the real irony is that Alabama brings in a huge return on federal taxes paid.
Shelby and Sessions probably voted no b/c they knew they are unlikely to have viable challengers. Shelby in particular is the king of pork. As long as it is pork for Alabama.
Ash Can
@Hill Dweller:
OK, I’ve just had a monstrous bloody mary with a Red Hook IPA chaser and am 3 sheets to the wind with one flapping in the breeze , but I have a funny feeling that this may be part of an unofficial official John-Boehner-Rehabilitation Program.
ETA: If the most prominent DC talkers are talking Boehner up, I can see this as a larger Let’s-Reward-This-Horse’s-Ass-For-Finally-Doing-The-Right-Thing campaign on the part of the MOTU/PTB.
Anoniminous
@Anya:
:-)
Thanks
Drexciya
@pseudonymous in nc
That’s exactly my problem, though. If you “broaden” the point, you forget that you’re talking primarily and exclusively about white southern politics. White people are not the south and they shouldn’t be used as placeholders for the south. If you need a more visceral reason to remember that, do it because you don’t want to give them the satisfaction. Their awareness of that truth is why voting takes place along racial lines. There’s absolutely no reason for liberals to be myopic about their Republican dismissals. It’s not “the south” that’s voting against them, it’s a section of the south.
Helen
@Drexciya: I get what you are saying. People make assumptions. BUT, I am from NY. NY-where we get $.73 back from the Federal Gov’t relative to what we give them. My neighbors in NJ get $.69. What does AL get? As a general rule I am for that. In my heart of hearts I am a socialist. Here’s my problem: In the last presidential election I was called a welfare queen. Why? Because I am a single women and last time around we were called “takers.” Wanna talk about “takers?” I pay close to $50,000 a year in taxes. That is 5 times what I get back in good and services from the federal government and more than 10x what the average family pays. And you know what? I am OK with that. Until I am called a welfare queen. Then I am done.
LeftCoastTom
@Birthmarker: Resorting to Mr. Google…mid-80s looks right for AL, high 80s-90 for MS (inverting Obama’s 10% in MS, 15% in AL white vote): Southern White Vote – US Today Article
Birthmarker
Here’s a good article from DKos about dem malfunction in Alabama. The shame is, even if one of us won the lottery and decided to pay off their debt, the leadership is failing and nothing would change.
Birthmarker
Drexciya
@Helen
While “welfare queen” has been broadened to encompass Every American On Welfare (and in the last election, extended to Everyone Who Votes Against Mitt Romney), let’s not forget that the term “welfare queen” originated as a dog whistle to construct and nationally affirm stereotypes against black women. Black women whose sons, fathers and brothers were being jailed and killed at incredible rates at the advent of the crack era that Reagan began. Black women who had to struggle and scrape with less pay than any other group in America just to get food. I don’t think we can discuss “welfare queens” without discussing how the term initiated – and is still utilized – as a racialized stereotype that’s directed to black people and functions to provide political cover for removing them from deserved federal services. These aren’t just people who are suffering independently; they’re the very people who stood – against all fairness, justice and sense – as embodiments of a term with heavily racist connotations that still apply and operate today.
So when I say that people shouldn’t forget that the south contains the majority of America’s black people, I’m also saying that the very people you seem to hold resentment for are the main recipients of the welfare queen archetype. And had a Democratic president respond to that archetype by stripping down and functionally dismantling the effectiveness of welfare just to prove how moderate he was. It’s not just your story. And provided that you aren’t black (or that you’re white), you’re not even the primary victim of that story. The south contains all kinds of people that work election year after election year to reach the kind of political plateau you seek. Your ire shouldn’t sweep them up in your protestations of contempt for the responsible parties.
b
@CaseyL:
Isn’t that Tim Scott from South Carolina who is a republican?
Birthmarker
Sorry I just can’t successfully link here…
LeftCoastTom
@Birthmarker: Click the “link” button, the FYWP software will put up a dialog asking you for the site you want to link to, paste the URL. It will then insert an “a” HTML tag – AND it will convert the “link” button into a “/link” button. Type the text you want to associate with the link. Then click the “/link” button.
Seems strange that FYWP offers to help you enter HTML links while requiring you to actually know how HTML links work…
mai naem
@gf120581: Paul was no good to Boehner because he couldn’t get any votes rounded up a couple of days ago and I think he wasn’t given the “respect” he probably thinks he deserves by Boehner. I can’t stand McConnell but the guy actually was somewhat a profile in courage in this situation. I don’t want Boehner to resign only because I could not stand to listen to Eric Cantor’s whiny slowww voice on a constant basis.
Helen
@Drexciya:
I am thinking now that we agree, but possibly are talking past each other. I agree with every single word of your first paragraph.
Regarding your second paragraph – I must strongly disagree. I hold NO “resentment for” the people who are the main recipients of welfare. In fact, as I said I am a socialist. I do agree that Bubba screwed both the pooch and America when he was all about “welfare reform”
I have no “ire.” I just don’t want to be yelled at when I am giving boatloads of my money to help others. I don’t need a “Thank you,” just please don’t tell me I’m a welfare queen.
If it helps your assessment, I am a white, single female, born in 1962. Grew up in a single parent (my dad) blue collar family. Also, I DO NOT think of myself as “victim” of any story.
Lastly – I spent some time both studying and working in academia. LOVED IT! You are an academic, aren’t you? You write just like one.
Caravelle
@Helen: But that whole “X state gets so much back in federal money, Y state gets more/less” thing is precisely part of the issue. I don’t object to it as a way of opposing right-wing conceptions of who the “takers” and “makers” are, but the truth is those numbers are aggregates, they don’t correspond to any specific person or demographic. There are probably many factors that will make a state a net recipient/donor of federal money, and corporate welfare would be one, but I’ll bet it correlates significantly to the state’s wealth. In other words, you aren’t the person who makes New York give more money to the government than it receives; the high concentration of rich people living there has a lot more to do with it. You, personally, aren’t getting back .73c on the dollar from the government.
And the reason Alabama gets more money from the federal government than it gives is probably its poor population, who not only should rightfully be getting that money in any compassionate system, but also skew Democrat (compared to the rich in the state at least, if not in absolute terms).
And also, obviously the other main factor that makes a state a “taker” or a “maker” is its governance – something that, again, the poor in Red States have very little input on.
So upset as you may be about people calling you “welfare queen”, by appealing to the “X back on the dollar” arguments in response you’re throwing the wrong people under the bus.
Helen
@Caravelle: Please do not mis-understand me. I am OK with paying more than I am getting back. I am not talking about the aggregate. The government spends approximately. $10,000 per person annually at a federal level and up to $16,000 total including federal, state and local. I pay $50,000 annually. I AM OK WITH THAT. I just don’t wanna be called a “taker”
Caravelle
@Helen: I get that. But nobody here called you a taker, or a welfare queen. There was a conversation about criticizing Alabama as a whole, and you made a post that included lines like “My neighbors in NJ get $.69. What does AL get?“. What point were you trying to make ?
I (and I assume Drexciya) interpreted this as you justifying criticism of Alabama as a whole by how frustrated you get at being called a welfare queen. But if you don’t agree with criticizing Alabama as a whole then I don’t know what it is you were saying.
Omnes Omnibus
@Caravelle: It sounds like you are reading into her comment things that were not said. As I read the comment, Helen was saying saying that having been called a “welfare queen” which implied that she was a “taker” when she clearly is not, she appreciated the call not to castigate everyone within any particular category of people. YMMV.
ETA: Sometimes it is best to try to interpret comments as benign in intent so long as the comment permits such an interpretation.
Chris
@PsiFighter37:
He should…but the dick voted to impeach the big dog..and is from racist old money in the local county seat. He just got gerrmandered teh fuck outta his seat. Couldnt happen to a nicer asshole. Still better than the (R) tho..sad that.
Drexciya
@Helen
By remembering that the black people the “welfare queen” stereotype attempts to depict are primarily concentrated in the south, you can also remember that the south, as a whole, is not to blame for that stereotype becoming a prominent fixture in modern Republican rhetoric and wielded against you. Regardless of your distaste for that word, many in the south can mark themselves as “victims” of how it’s applied (and could have done so before the concept was ever dreamed of being applied to you). And we can duly note that its application has negative consequences both for policy and for political rhetoric, as most of our issues with social welfare programs and the absence of more direct socialism is heavily rooted in the way poverty and discussions of measures to alleviate poverty have been racialized.
I cosign Caravelle’s comments, by the way, and I think this post was particularly cogent.
sherparick
Has any Senator spun more false memes and done more harm to his country than Tom Corbin these past 10 years? Despite being a complete lunatic, he is the regular go to guy for the MSM shows to interview. Vomit inducing.
Most of this group of 18 is perfectly serious. To them not raising the debt ceiling and “forcing the Government to only spends what it takes in” is a a feature, not a bug. They want it to happen.
Cervantes
@Anoniminous: Where our President is sitting at the rosewood desk, pen in one hand, a beer in the other, and Lily Allen’s song “Fuck You” blaring on the stereo.
Now that’s funny.
Hadn’t heard the song before. The opening, including the telephone, reminds me of Lorenzo and Henrietta Music’s opening theme for the old Bob Newhart show that CBS aired in the 70s.