A pattern in with which I do not fit, having barely survived to 21 with my bits intact.
Modern men are less sensation seeking than they used to be, according to new research.
The St Andrews University study claimed today’s men were less willing to take on physically challenging activities.
In the 1970s, men were more likely than women to say they would try things like parachuting or mountaineering, it said.
The report, published in the journal Scientific Reports, said men’s thrill-seeking scores were now more in line with the average female.
‘Thrill seeking behavior’ being practically a synonym for poor impulse control, it seemed natural to wonder whether fewer people jumping out of perfectly good planes* could have something to do with the striking link between lead poisoning and violence. A quick websurf of relevant studies turned up two points of interest concerning dudes acting more like the womenfolk. One, other fetal challenges like cocaine can cause selectively intense impulse control problems in men, and two, lead toxicity does seem to have gender-specific effects on gene expression in the human brain.
If my hunch is right then I would score this as bad news for the skydiving industry, good news for most of the rest of us.
(*) To be fair, I did go skydiving once. From what I saw of the plane I was better off in a parachute.
gbear
Hey! Watch this!!
Baud
@gbear:
Hold my bear.
ETA: I meant beer, but this is so much better.
Culture of Truth
Maybe women are just more thrill-seeking?
Eh, who cares.
gbear
The 60 year old woman who runs the gift shop in the building where I work told me that she is going to go skydiving soon. She was serious. She’s far more adventurous than I am. I can’t even get myself motivated to go to the state fair.
srv
I blame John Cole and Obama.
Why just yesterday I was daydreaming of getting a fucking pedicure. Never once had crossed my mind in over four decades, and then John and all his subliminal feminaziation voodoo.
magurakurin
I never went skydiving, never wanted to, never saw the appeal. But I did a lot of mountain climbing and rock climbing including alpine rock climbs. While there are certainly moments of stark fear and danger, it really isn’t just all about thrillseeking. There is a much, much larger element of challenging your mental and physical limits, the bonds formed between climbers working together, a deep connection with the mountain and the natural world, and the incredible joy of seeing places and moments that not everyone has the chance to experience. I’ve been on climbs that took three days to finish. I did one climb in which we were moving, climbing, belaying and making the descent on the final summit climb for 18 continuous hours. That’s hardly a thrill ride.
NotMax
B.B. King, The Thrill Is Gone
PopeRatzo
People don’t skydive because it’s wicked expensive.
My wife was on the national skydiving team of a former Soviet bloc country before we got married twenty-something years ago. She’s still terrific, and can do all the formations and accuracy jumps and all that crazy stuff. She was even involved with bringing down the Olympic torch at the Sarajevo Olympics (I’m getting too close to giving away her age now). We still go occasionally because we’ve got a pal with a little airfield about 100 miles away in Wisconsin, but if we didn’t have that hookup, it would be prohibitive. The equipment, maintenance on just the ‘chute and gear is costly.
I don’t think she’s a victim of lead toxicity, since she’s a Math professor at a pretty prestigious joint, but she still has that crazy bone, which comes out occasionally on the ski slope and in her abuse of hot peppers. But I haven’t been able to detect any mental defects besides her affection for me.
As hobbies go, parachuting is a very expensive one. Judging from the number of my daughter’s friends who are into parkour, thai boxing, and other insane activities, I’m not sure the daredevil impulse has diminished all that much. They just do stuff that doesn’t cost a fortune, like the Spartan race she ran in a few weeks ago, jumping over burning pits, through heavy mud, climbing ropes, etc. When I was their age, my biggest physical challenge was seeing how big a blunt I could roll. And that wasn’t all that expensive, since a nickel bag was, let’s see…well, I forget, but it wasn’t all that much.
Omnes Omnibus
@magurakurin: There is a big difference between extreme sports like climbing and big mountain skiing where one could actually die and thrill seeking activities like bungee jumping that are basically safe. Skydiving is closer to the extreme sport side and rather fun.
srv
And that skydiving stuff – $50 special back in 1982 at San Marcos, and nobody with a car would join me. Back when you didn’t have some guy strapped to your fat ass either.
So I fly one of these and one of these.
Make me wear a parachute in the Grob though…
Suffern ACE
I blame lacrosse and soccer.
I was going to mention the decline of boxing and wrestling, but then I remembered MMA and I wonder if it is possible that the test that was given is looking at older forms of thrill seeking and not testing for newer forms.
Omnes Omnibus
@Suffern ACE: Like PopeRatzo mentioned, things like parkour are popular among the kids.
gbear
@NotMax:
The Kinks, Sitting On My Sofa
Suffern ACE
@Omnes Omnibus: Bah. I wish I would have had parkour when I was a young’un. Someday Parkour and Sepak Takraw are going to be olympic sports, cause that would be awesome to see. Say the 2032 olympics in Toronto, with downtown Toronto turned into a giant free running course.
Spaghetti Lee
If it’s true, I wonder if there’s a connection to the rise of personal, take-anywhere entertainment, many more entertainment options, and more high-fructose/starchy foods. Much more temptations toward slackerdom than there were in the 70’s.
I’m fat and lazy and have never been a physical badass: I spent four hours at work today cleaning the storeroom and I’m already fucking bushed. I need at least some people to keep mountain biking and skydiving and canyon jumping so I can vicariously live through them.
I’d say more, but Edroso already said it better than I could a while back. A little madness is a necessary part of life: http://alicublog.blogspot.com/2006/03/against-orders.html
Culture of Truth
Just like that gay commie Cory Booker!!
Omnes Omnibus
Don’t make me dig up that seminal piece by Kim du Toit.
Culture of Truth
When you’re young you think you’re going to live forever.
When you’re middle aged, you think, oh no, I’m not going to live forever.
When you’e old you think, screw it, hand me the parachute.
gbear
@srv: Last year I was thinking about getting a pedicure but I went out and bought one of these instead (well, one like it). It’s definitely the dime store version of a pedicure, but I only had to pay for it once, it’s always nearby, and it does make my feet feel better. I do lose that whole experience of being pampered by the person doing the pedicure, but so what?
Culture of Truth
St. Andrews? Where an ordianary day is wacking a ball in tall grass in wind and rain and topping it off with whiskey and sheep’s intestine?
Omnes Omnibus
@gbear: I have never considered a pedicure. Too ticklish.
techno
I am not, nor have I ever been a “thrill-seeker.” However, I once got caught in a pretty nasty storm on the Atlantic on a 36′ sloop with broken parts. It was damn scary for a couple of hours but then we got things under control, we were sailing along a max hull speeds, and it stopped raining buckets.
It was easily the best nine hours of my life. The sense of accomplishment that came with handling very adverse conditions correctly has stayed with me my whole life—mostly because I can remember what it felt like to be actually fearless. And if those sorts of things are not happening any more for young men, I sincerely mourn their loss.
magurakurin
@Omnes Omnibus:
So, neither one is appropriate for this guys article. Climbing is dangerous, but, at least everyone I climbed with took every precaution, as much training as possible and constantly made decisions to make it a safe as possible. The notion that it is just thrill seeking can only be made by someone who has never really climbed. I can’t really make any judgement on sky diving, but I will defer to you and I can imagine how it is similar. Climbing is an experience that brings the climber great joy in spite of the fact that it is dangerous, not because it is dangerous. I can see where skydiving is the same.
Omnes Omnibus
This group always seemed rather fun to me.
gbear
I think that the most popular middle age crisis act by men in their 40s & 50s is to go buy a motorcycle. They’re sexy, fairly easy to justify, and they’re the group with the highest rate of death due to crashing their machines.
When I caught that bug, I realized I would be better off buying a scooter instead. It’s controls were more like the bicycles I was used to, I could get around town anywhere at up to 60 mph, and best of all, I couldn;t go 120 mph. I;ve since traded up to a scooter that accelerates a lot faster and can do 90 pretty easy, but still can;t be one of the guys weaving through traffic during rush hour. I could still die by doing something stupid on the bike, but it won;t be because of wreckless speed.
Omnes Omnibus
@magurakurin: I have done both climbing and jumping – as well as skiing. The thrill comes from pushing against one’s limits. A 5:8 climb can be extreme as hell for some people. Al least that is how I see it.
? Martin
Everyone is too busy working the game. High school, college, find a job while living with mom and dad, try to pay off college while you and your new wife try and scrape enough money together to buy a house, kids and start saving for their college while you debate whether to blow your entire 2nd income on day care or just go with one income. And little safety net to protect you through all of this, because if you fail anywhere along the way, you’re making $8.25 at Taco Bell and you’re fucked.
Where is there room for thrillseeking?
NotMax
@Culture of Truth
At St. Andrews, that would conclusively be whisky.
Omnes Omnibus
@? Martin: It’s probably the fact the insurance company won’t pay to fix your collarbone, left arm, and right knee after the accident because they excluded that behavior from coverage.
jl
@? Martin:
I can’t find the article from the links. Regular old downhill skiing at a resort was one of the thrill seeking sports? The article (edit that Tim F lined to) seemed to imply so.
You might have a point though. A lot of these ‘thrill seeking sports’ (what exactly they are supposed to be I guess I find out when I see the article) take time and money.
Did any studies after 2004 include buying a house or investing in a mortgage backed security?
Odie Hugh Manatee
Speaking of lead poisoning, brain damage and doing stupid shit, I heard that Ted Nugent’s wife was arrested for having a gun in her carry-on luggage at the airport. I’m really glad to hear that she has a CCW permit though.
It means that one day she just might have a chance to shoot her misogynistic lunatic hubby.
FlipYrWhig
Considering the way it began, I thought this article was going to be about the relative popularity of condoms.
aangus
@techno:
I hope your parts have healed up since then.
magurakurin
@Omnes Omnibus:
especially when it is an old climb rated back before there were 5.10. There are some 5.8’s out there that are every bit a 10c…
Tom Fitzpatrick
Then there’s mountain biking…
Omnes Omnibus
@magurakurin: That’s one of the fun things about this blog. No matter how much one knows about things in general, there always is someone who knows more about some specific thing.
Culture of Truth
No those were risk free and don’t count
Redshift
I always wanted to go hang gliding, but I’ve never done it. Definitely not because of thrill seeking (that part actually turns me off), but because it’s flying like a bird.
Roger Moore
@jl:
I couldn’t, either. I suspect this is based on the press release in advance of the article being published in the next few days. That said, I really wonder how much of it is a result of social change, with society less prone to punish women who do thrill sports and less prone to encourage men. Also, too, I wonder if some of that might be because of delayed marriage and childbearing. Women are a lot freer to do wild and crazy things if they don’t have kids, and the extra time without them is concentrated in the most thrill-seeking time of life.
? Martin
@jl:
Depends on the resort and run. I’ve done some hairy diamond runs (when I was 17-18 and too stupid to say no to a dare). Never brave enough for double diamond, though. I’ve also done some basic free climbing here and it was the same rush, even if the skiing was vastly less likely to kill me. Don’t underestimate the thrill of speed, even when it’s otherwise safe.
techno
@aangus:
It was the sloop that had the broken parts—damaged centerboard and rigging. Sorry for the confusion.
Seanly
I parachuted once my freshman year in college (’86). The outdoor activities group at the university did a yearly thing a couple of hours away. The night before we learned to do the protocol for going out the door on the static line, what to do if your main chute fails & the landing. None of this new sissy tandem chutes where you land at a walk.
Since we were on a static line (required for one’s first 5 jumps), there was only a couple of seconds of free fall. The descent was so quiet, but it was awesome to be drifting in the air. The place we went used old WWII silk chutes (the Cadillac) which were easy to steer. Wind pushed me a little ways off the drop zone, but I had a textbook landing. I wanted to do another drop, but fall had moved in.
I’d love to do it again.
I’ve done a lot of backpacking (though not recently boo hoo) in the Sierras and never enjoyed scampering up rocks. Slight fear of edges and dropoffs has increased as I’ve aged.
No midlife crisis for me at 45 yet.
Joel
Did a tandem skydive from 14000 feet. Was relaxing, actually. Kind of an amazingly peaceful experience when you don’t have to worry about managing the chute.
Omnes Omnibus
@Joel: For me, the most fun thing about any of the jumps I have done is exiting the door. The rest is sort of technical stuff. The actual leap, step, or lean out that puts one in the air though….
danielx
For males from 17 to 25, add an insane disregard of common sense and the laws of probability. I oughta know…
Dead Ernest
Along the lines of the peak & drop of lead in the atmosphere, I wonder what the change in ppm of estrogen in the water supply has looked like since the introduction of birth control pills.
aangus
@Dead Ernest:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=estrogen-in-waterways
Jasmine Bleach
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yeah. Stepping out the door and hanging from the wing strut of a Cesna . . . quite the mind rush! I also like, when free falling, putting your arms back and feeling/hearing the wind noise accelerate as you increase speed 30 or 50 mph (or whatever it is).
I just saw the other day a PBS show about Wing Suits. I don’t know why, but I’d never seen or heard about them before. Extremely cool, but there’s no frickin’ way I’d do that! At least with skydiving, you always have a backup chute and have some time to react to trouble. With those Wing Suits–especially doing it alongside the mountain topography–you either do it perfectly or your pretty much dead.
mdblanche
@? Martin: These days everybody is a professional thrill-seeker.
mike with a mic
It’s frowned on. Football and the brain injuries will be the next casualty. We use societal pressure to shame people out of some activities and force them into others, this is how we change things.
That all said I still box, I still play rugby, haven’t been sky diving in a while. But oh well.
Origuy
I used to do whitewater rafting. I went with a group that did it regularly, so we did most of the tougher runs in California. The last time I went, we were going on the California Salmon, way up north. These were paddleboats, six plus a guide. On the first rapid, two of the boats flipped and we went swimming. Most of us got out quickly, but one guy went down a half mile before he got out. The last guy’s body was found two miles down river. Despite helmets, life vests, and wetsuits, and being in the best shape of any of us, once the river took him he was gone.
We later found out that the BLM had changed the flow gauge on the river and it was reading low. When the guides checked it, it looked like a class 5 river. Difficult, but runnable. We were the first on the river that year and it was more like a class 6. Waterfalls are class 6.
ruemara
My biggest thrill is knowing I can pay for things. Shelter, internets, cat food, my food-in that order of priority. Want to really have a fun thrill ride? Job Hunt! It’s like a snipe hunt but with less of a real target. Someone responded to a resume! Holy crap, it’s like skiing a double black diamond. Fuck excitement. I’d give darned near anything for less excitement.
kdaug
@Culture of Truth:
Ding.
kdaug
@PopeRatzo:
Unpossible.
kdaug
@Tom Fitzpatrick:
Cracked a clavicle going over the handlebars once. Been a big fan of helmets (broke the one I was wearing) ever since.
worn
@Suffern ACE: That is an awesome idea!
James E. Powell
It started when I was 9 or 10. All the guys in my neighborhood, including me and my little brother, embarked on a campaign that last several years, till we were 14 or 15. The apparent purpose of the campaign, in retrospect, was for one or more of us to be seriously injured or killed. We were constantly trying to outdo each other in taking risks.
Swinging on vines in the woods is fun enough, how about you let go when you’re up in the air? crawling through the storm sewer system when it rains to let the water carry you out into a creek. Playing around on construction sites at night building our own obstacle courses. One kid figured out how to make gunpowder and we all got in on it, serious fireworks were available all summer, one kid set the effing woods on fire, then we got dirt bikes. Then we took the dirt bikes to the construction sites. One kid broke his leg and another cut his head open, but the rest of us came out of it all without a scratch. It all seemed like the natural thing to do.
Brandon
@Dead Ernest: I was going to suggest the same thing as I have read the USGS study and was awestruck. It is not just estrogen and other hormones, but also metabolites of other prescription medications.
KXB
@Spaghetti Lee:
I’m skinny and kinda lazy. Also, pretty introverted. Many of these activities seem to be group oriented, and I don’t care to be around people when I don’t have to. Yes, having Netflix, iPad, plus a treadmill and weights means I have all my entertainment and fitness equipment at home. Plus, I can have an extra glass of wine at home, since I do not have to go driving afterwards.
Julia Grey
Ah, yes, that amazing silence. To me it was a shock. I think my static line didn’t event give me 3 seconds of free-fall. It was like, jump, 2 seconds of total confusion, and then whap, SILENCE and blue sky. I’d sort of jumped over myself on the way out and ended up with twisted cords, so I spun a bit in the air as they untwisted and fell a tiny bit faster than strictly necessary until they were straight. But I did okay steering and hit the drop zone without trouble. Only problem was it came up a lot faster than I was expecting, and I fell instead of being able to run it out. Then the chute started dragging me backwards on my butt across the ridges of the field. Ow.
Those few magical minutes in the silent air were worth it (flash thought at the sudden stop: Am I dead? Is this heaven?), but once was enough.