Obviously, he needs the long-form vault copy “original” of his birth certificate, certified, with the raised seal

Back to North Carolina again, with new developments in the student voter + candidate story:

Within hours of Gov. Pat McCrory signing a Republican-backed bill this week making sweeping changes to the state’s voting laws, local elections boards in two college towns made moves that could make it harder for students to vote.
The Pasquotank County Board of Elections on Tuesday barred an Elizabeth City State University senior from running for city council, ruling his on-campus address couldn’t be used to establish local residency..

William Skinner, the panel’s lone Democrat, sharply dissented with the other board members. He argued King had clearly shown ECSU was his permanent residence, supported by his right to vote in local elections. He urged the board to dismiss Gilbert’s challenge. “If you are able to vote, you should be able to run for office, barring any restrictions against you, which we have found none,”

The Elizabeth City State University senior who wants to run for city council is Montravias King:

images mk

King said he plans to continue to run for office, and considers Gilbert’s challenge part of a broader Republican effort to discourage student voting. “I don’t see this as personal, I see this as an attack on college students across North Carolina,” he said.

The County Board of Elections made the decision to disqualify Mr. King first as a voter and then as a candidate based on residency. Mr. King has now appealed that decision to the state board of elections:

Ms, Kim Strach
Executive Director, State Board of Elections
Mr. Don Wright
Counsel for State Board of Elections
Dear Ms. Strach and Mr. Wright:
Please find enclosed the appeal by Mr. Montravias King from the August 20th order of the Pasquotank County Board of Elections disqualifying Mr. King as a candidate based on residency. From my telephone conversation with Mr. Wright, it is my understanding that the Pasquotank County Board has been directed to not print ballots for the October election until the State Board decides the merits of this appeal. If my understanding is incorrect or the status of Pasquotank’s ballot printing changes, please let me know immediately so I can file a motion to stay the Pasquotank’s Board’s order pending these proceedings.

Excerpt from appeal:

The North Carolina Constitution Article VI § 1 guarantees that “Every person born in the United States and every person who has been naturalized, 18 years of age, and possessing the qualifications set out in this Article, shall be entitled to vote at any election by the people of the State, except as herein otherwise provided.”
Article VI § 2(1) states: Residence period for State elections. Any person who has resided in the State of North Carolina for one year and in the precinct, ward, or other election district for 30 days next preceding an election, and possesses the other qualifications set out in this Article, shall be entitled to vote at any election held in this State.

Equally fundamental is the right of a qualified voter to run for elected office. Under
North Carolina Constitution Article VI § 6, “[e]very qualified voter in North Carolina who is 21 years of age, except as in this Constitution disqualified, shall be eligible for election by the people to office.”

Candidate Montravias King is a rising senior at Elizabeth City State University who has resided on campus since the fall of2009 and who has been an active member of the college community. Ruling on a challenge to Mr. King’s candidacy based on residency, the Board held that a dormitory address could not be considered a permanent address. Combining the Board’s conclusions of law, the Board’s ruling can be summarized as “We do not know where Mr. King resides because he cannot claim to reside here.” The Board’s conclusions oflaw are illogical. Under their conclusions, any student who abandons their former home and goes to a dormitory would be completely barred from establishing domicile anywhere. The Board’s conclusions of law classifying dormitories as insufficient addresses for voting purposes would effectively disenfranchise every student who attempts to register at his or her college dormitory address, in clear violation of United States Supreme Court precedent and holdings of the North Carolina Supreme Court.

Evidence presented at the August 13th hearing showed that Mr. King established 1704 Weeksville Road as his permanent address by:
• Registering to vote at that address in 2009 and voting in subsequent elections
• Attending classes every semester and during summer school at that address
• Using that address for the place where he does his banking
• Using that address for medical records
• Obtaining employment in Elizabeth City and using that address with his employer
• Changing his driver’s license to that address
• Removing treasured possessions such as photos and mementos from his parents’s home and keeping them with him in Elizabeth City
• Actively engaging in community life by serving as President of the ECSU Chapter of the NAACP
• Testifying that he intends to stay in the Fourth Ward after graduation

via election law blog (pdf)

172 replies
  1. 1
    Davis X. Machina says:

    Isn’t that an open-and-shut case, at least on the voting, unless the Supremes want to overturn Symm v. United States (the Prairie View case)?

  2. 2
    Tone In DC says:

    I hope King gets some radio/TV/newspaper exposure. Let some sunlight on these g00per roaches and their racist, antediluvian politics.

    This kind of rodent fornication needs to be out there.

  3. 3
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Davis X. Machina: I don’t see how it isn’t open and shut on the candidacy issue as well.

  4. 4
    nemesis says:

    Clearly Mr King is a danger to the community and to his fellow classmates. NC should deport him. How dare he expect the same rights as the majority.

    RaMad has been all over this.

  5. 5
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I’m feeling generous….

    On edit. Summary judgement in Symms. In other words, the majority went “Duh….” and didn’t even write an opinion. But that douche canoe Rehnquist wrote a dissent. Because when you know something about voter suppression, you gotta share the expertise.

  6. 6
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    I’m sure that Mr. King’s melanin surplus is in no way a factor in all of this, also, too.

  7. 7
    Kay says:

    @Davis X. Machina:

    I don’t know, because a Republican in Michigan used a more specific version to disenfranchise students at Michigan State University. There, the students couldn’t use their college address as residency for voting if they had a driver’s license unless the license had that address. That’s narrower, of course. I don’t think NC can say NO student can use a dorm address, because that would leave some students without a “residence”.

  8. 8
    aimai says:

    Good for him. We need more college activists like this. I wonder if his case, if he wins, defangs this entire “college students can’t vote” thing. It seems on the face of it that a person is entitled to establish residency, and re-establish residency, even at temporary dormitory housing so long as they have occupied it for 30 days prior to a given election. Since school starts in September and elections happen in November how can they ever deny someone the right to register and vote locally, in local elections?

  9. 9
    Betty Cracker says:

    The Republicans are working overtime to make that inconvenient, boring old civic duty — voting — a subversive act. Please proceed, Republicans.

  10. 10
    MattF says:

    … and I’m guessing Mr. King got a letter from the Board of Elections signed:

    Sincerely yours,

    James Crow

  11. 11
    Kay says:

    @aimai:

    It’s a slippery slope (seriously this time!) because people have such complicated lives- students or not. They could be wandering around trying to find a place where they “reside” and can vote if this challenge on residency thing caught on. People have all kinds of interim residences and temporary situations, and residency itself is hazy and subject to interpretation.

  12. 12
    Suzanne says:

    This is interesting, because I remember when I lived in a dormitory in 2000 during the census, the census takers in both Tucson (where I went to school) and Phoenix (my mom’s house and my permanent residence) said I had to get counted as a Tucson resident. Probably threw off the population counts for those districts.

  13. 13
    g says:

    How would the law distinguish between a college dormitory and, say, a room in a rooming house near campus?

  14. 14
    Betsy says:

    Kay, check this out:

    Colin Powell blasts NC voter law from podium — McCrory in the audience, having just left the stage — Highest-profile criticism of the law so far:

    http://projects.newsobserver.c.....voting_law

  15. 15

    @Davis X. Machina:

    Isn’t that an open-and-shut case

    Obviously not. Just take a look at the facts of the case:

    * He’s black
    * He’s young
    * No seriously, he’s black
    * He might win and upset the apple cart
    * He’s black

  16. 16
    ruemara says:

    This shit. This shit right here, that all the people up in arms about the NSA because liberdee are ignoring. This is what pisses me off. Telling me government shouldn’t snoop-I’m from NYC and had family in 2 places in the WTC on 9/11-then ignoring this real, actual abuse-this is what’s pissing me off.

  17. 17
    Citizen_X says:

    So, the Republicans now assume the right to decide who can and cannot run for office? Then we have exactly as much “democracy” as the Islamic Republic of Iran.

    So they’re not like the Taliban. They’re like the Iranian mullahs.

  18. 18
    Bobby Thomson says:

    Yikes. I’m not saying it’s the Triangle, but historically coastal Carolina has been more in line with the rest of the Union.

  19. 19
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @ruemara: This.

    Also, too, Son of Debt Ceiling Brinkmanship.

  20. 20
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Roger Moore:

    Did you notice, by any chance, that he’s black?

  21. 21
    MomSense says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Of course it isn’t a factor just like being young, a student, and President of the local NAACP chapter.

  22. 22
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @Kay: They’d better be treating everyone else in East Lansing the same way. Because the Symm case turned on disparate treatment in voting registration.

  23. 23
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Citizen_X:

    Black, Democrat, born in Honolulu: NO

    Latino, certifiably Teatard crazy, born in Calgary: YES

  24. 24

    @Citizen_X:

    So they’re not like the Taliban. They’re like the Iranian mullahs.

    Iran let 15 year olds vote, so the mullahs seem to be less afraid of young people than the Republicans are.

  25. 25
    Kay says:

    @Betsy:

    In one comment, he seemed to rebuke McCrory for suggesting that voter fraud likely exists but is hard to detect. The governor had compared it to insider trading.

    Is McCrory a dope? I told you I watched this health care Q and A with a scary-smart physician the other night on C-Span (governors) and McCrory just came off as a clown. He really didn’t sound great in comparison if you put him in a room full of governors and listen to them ask questions.

    I think the accusation that he’s Art Pope’s proxy may be valid.

  26. 26
    Hungry Joe says:

    @Roger Moore: In this case I think it’s more “He’s a college student.” College students tend to vote Democratic, therefore college students shouldn’t vote. Not allowing him to run for city council is a bonus — kind of like the Special Features on a DVD.

  27. 27
    Zifnab says:

    @MomSense: Don’t talk about that. You’re a racist. Clearly, he’s just being denied the ability to run because it wouldn’t be Constitutional.

  28. 28
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Kay:

    Was the scary smart guy John Kitzhaber, the governor of Oregon? Because he IS a medical doctor, he brings the expertise of working in an ER to the conversation, and he probably could slice and dice McCrory in about 5 seconds flat.

  29. 29
    NCSteve says:

    @Davis X. Machina: According to the Conservative Alternate Universe Constitution, there a) is no Constitutional right to vote in federal elections at all, b) no right of students to vote anywhere except possibly where their parents live, and c) we’re not a democracy, we’re a republic so no one has any right to vote anywhere.

    No, really. That’s what they say. I foolishly posted a comment at the Raleigh N&O a week ago that cited Symms and quoted a few relevant Amendments and self-taught Constitutional scholars of the teabagging patriot variety have been dropping by to ridicule my ignorance in believing voting was a fundamental Constitutional right ever since.

  30. 30
    NCSteve says:

    @Davis X. Machina: According to the Conservative Alternate Universe Constitution, there a) is no Constitutional right to vote in federal elections at all, b) no right of students to vote anywhere except possibly where their parents live, and c) we’re not a democracy, we’re a republic so no one has any right to vote anywhere.

    No, really. That’s what they say. I foolishly posted a comment at the Raleigh N&O a week ago that cited Symms and quoted a few relevant Amendments and self-taught Constitutional scholars of the teabagging patriot variety have been dropping by to ridicule my ignorance in believing voting was a fundamental Constitutional right ever since.

  31. 31
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @Kay:

    He really didn’t sound great in comparison

    Hey! It’s as if Roman Hruska lived and died in vain. Bigoted, mean-spirited people of unimpressive intellect deserve representation, too!

    Hell, in a democracy, there are enough of them to serve as the basis for a political party.

  32. 32
    AxelFoley says:

    @Roger Moore:

    Obviously not. Just take a look at the facts of the case:

    * He’s black
    * He’s young
    * No seriously, he’s black
    * He might win and upset the apple cart
    * He’s black

    You left out one fact: He’s black

  33. 33
    p.a. says:

    Law of unintended consequences. 1) a thumb in the eye of students and minorities will energize them. 2) they have already hopelessly lost minorities, they are in the dumps with young people, so they just make it worse by going after students. 3) let a thousand lawsuits bloom- plenty of advocates for voting rights out there (is this a valid assumption?), but let the cracker towns have to pony up their lawyer fees. Or will Scaife and the Federalist Society come to their aid?

  34. 34

    @Hungry Joe:

    In this case I think it’s more “He’s a college student.”

    Given that the school in question is a historically black college, I don’t think the elections officials are making much of a distinction on that point.

  35. 35
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Good luck to Mr. King. Hopefully, he’s gotten enough legal support to challenge this all the way up to the S. Ct.

  36. 36
    Petorado says:

    So if you’re rich, you can set-up a shell company with an address in an offshore nation to avoid millions or billions in taxes , even though all the business functions, profits, and workers reside in the US. But someone who attends college for nine months of the year in a domestic location cannot vote for a representative who will determine how their tax dollars are spent? I hate Republican “logic.”

  37. 37
    Kay says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    No, but he is smart. The physician is the doctor who started the whole “mapping” of health care high-user low income patients in Camden, NJ. They give them really good personalized preventive care for chronic conditions like diabetes instead of re-admitting them to the hospital over and over. His thing is just give them continuing consistent ordinary care and the cost problem takes care of itself.

    He was lecturing them about building too many hospitals :)

  38. 38
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @p.a.:

    3) let a thousand lawsuits bloom-

    Fifty years ago MLK decided that as a tactic you could simply fill the jails, and they’d have to give up.

    The GOP are going to do the same thing with the courts, and since nothing will ever move the actual date of the election, and very, very rarely will a court order a new one, who cares when the injunctive relief kicks in?

    (They’re counting on the fact that the number of Kays is finite…)

  39. 39
    LAC says:

    @ruemara: True! Maybe he should fly into Moscow or China next time. And not be sooooo, like, blah….

    N.C. and S.C. in race to the bottom. Whoever wins gets to share space with Texas.

  40. 40
    Lavocat says:

    As per Gandhi, they only respect you when you start fighting back.

    Don’t back down.

  41. 41

    @Davis X. Machina:

    Fifty years ago MLK decided that as a tactic you could simply fill the jails, and they’d have to give up.

    The wobblies were doing that 50 years before the Civil Rights Movement.

  42. 42

    You’ve got to give NC credit for starting their voter purge efforts at historically black colleges. At the very least it saves everyone a lot of time sorting out which side of this issue they’re on.

  43. 43
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kay:

    I don’t think NC can say NO student can use a dorm address, because that would leave some students without a “residence”.

    And how weird does that become? If you can’t use your dorm address to prove your residency for voting, how can a bank accept it to open an account or your cell phone company accept it to mail your bill to or the DMV accept it as the address on your license since the state government is telling them that’s not a valid address?

  44. 44
    Hungry Joe says:

    @Roger Moore: No way to tell, but you’re probably right.

    I wonder if just north in Virginia and just south in South Carolina they’re going to try to disenfranchise all those almost-surely-GOP-heavy VMI and Citadel students the same way. Maybe they’ll get a waiver because their uniforms are so spiffy.

  45. 45
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Davis X. Machina: Courts can and do expedite cases involving elections.

  46. 46
    rikyrah says:

    Speaking in Raleigh, Colin Powell blasts North Carolina voting law
    Submitted by John_Frank on 2013-08-22 09:56

    UPDATED: With Gov. Pat McCrory in the audience, former Secretary of State Colin Powell took aim at North Carolina’s new voting law Thursday, saying it hurts the Republican Party, punishes minority voters and makes it more difficult for everyone to vote.

    “I want to see policies that encourage every American to vote, not make it more difficult to vote,” said Powell, a Republican, at the CEO Forum in Raleigh.

    “It immediately turns off a voting block the Republican Party needs,” Powell continued. “These kinds of actions do not build on the base. It just turns people away.”

    The retired general served as the keynote speaker at the event and made his remarks moments after McCrory left the stage. His comments represent the most high-profile criticism of the Republican-crafted law that requires voters to show photo identification at the polls, cuts early voting days and makes it harder for students to vote.

    In one comment, he seemed to rebuke McCrory for suggesting that voter fraud likely exists but is hard to detect. The governor had compared it to insider trading.

    “You can say what you like, but there is no voter fraud,” Powell said.

    http://projects.newsobserver.c.....voting_law

  47. 47
    aimai says:

    @AxelFoley: Something people are forgetting is that in addition to all the other stuff (young, black, probably a democrat) that he is running for office locally, in a situation where having access to other young voters could be an absolute goldmine. Most local elections are low turnout and go to the incumbent or reflect local power struggles between important interests and families.

    If you add in a College student to the mix, at a local college, you are really creating a wild situation for the incumbents and the local power hierarchy. A college student comes with his own ready made voting base of people who know him and who usually don’t know or care about the incumbents or other local issues. In a small district a popular college student who runs a succesful campaign could win pretty much any job he wants. Its not just that this kid is probably liberal in a conservative area or black in a white area, its also because the local hierarchy wants to keep power in their own hands.

    This is seen as a problem in every rural college district and even in urban areas–college students and their interests are a wild card that no local hierarchy wants to deal with.

  48. 48
    scav says:

    Generally, towns and cities fight to keep their population figues up, especially when it means they get more cash from higher up govts. They contest census results, sometimes been known to pay for their own recounts, etc. Those heroic board members surely wouldn’t be so eager to not claim students as residents under those circumstances.

  49. 49
    beth says:

    We’ve spent a two or three weekends every winter in Boone, NC since they’re the closest winter mountain spot for us (don’t laugh at my fairly unathletic family who considers skiing and snowboarding down a small hill winter sports). I’ve pulled out my credit card bills for the last few years, circled the charges from businesses in Boone and sent copies to them telling them my family won’t be spending any money there this winter due to all this shit going on in NC. It’s not much but it’s all I can think to do. Do you think the NAACP would extend their boycott to NC?

  50. 50
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @Roger Moore: And Loomis at LGM has written on them too.

    Thinking geographically, and of my own lifetime.

    The sisters (Sisters of St. Joseph) who taught me in elementary school inspired us with the stories of the kids not much older than us lined up to go to jail in Georgia, interwoven with tales of the martyrs from the persecution of Diocletian.

    (I had different nuns from George Carlin. It happened.)

  51. 51
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Kay:

    OK, I know this sounds silly, but he’s obviously got bizarre notions of reducing overall health costs instead of creating profit centers for large corporations.

    This makes him a communist.

  52. 52
    rikyrah says:

    Ryan J. Reilly ✔ @ryanjreilly

    BREAKING: DOJ suing Texas over voter ID law.

    11:23 AM – 22 Aug 2013

  53. 53
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: it’s discretionary, though…. and we know who’s been filling those seats on the benches for the last few decades.

    Norms, not laws, are what keep us from the abyss.

  54. 54
    hoodie says:

    @Kay: McCrory has always been an empty suit. When he was in Charlotte, he was a front man for the bankers (e.g., Hugh McColl) that ran the city. The difference there is that the bankers generally weren’t right wing ideologues like Pope and supported things like mass transit, so McCrory got cred as a moderate. Everything I’ve heard about him suggests there’s nothing there. He’s kind of like Bob McDonnell, only dumber, if that’s possible.

  55. 55
    raven says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Paul Broun and Phil Gingery are MD’s and they are drooling fucking morons.

  56. 56
    Betsy says:

    @Kay: He IS, he is SUCH a dope. He cannot seem to put one sentence together that makes sense. He is constantly caught flatfooted in public fora, (no wonder he doesn’t like to meet with advocacy groups) and not only that, he has a tendency to put his foot in his mouth. The first few weeks of his term were marked by the number of flatfooted / tin-eared remarks off the cuff, and nothing’s changed.

    No offense to real flat-footed and tin-eared folks.

    Cookies. Did you know about the cookies?? Google “McCrory and cookies”.

  57. 57
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Precisely. Dom Helder Camara: “”When I feed the poor they call me a saint;. when I ask why people are poor they call me a communist.”

    (How many people see this quote, and hear of Dom Helder, for the first, and only, time, because of playing Civilization IV?)

  58. 58
    Felonius Monk says:

    He’s not WHITE. Appeal Denied. Case closed.(Or so they think).

  59. 59
    Kay says:

    @Betsy:

    I read about the cookies. “Patronizing” is not the way to deal with angry people. I got mad and I wasn’t even there. I don’t know what they intended to do politically with that, look “folksy” I bet, but boy was that insulting.

  60. 60
    Betsy says:

    @beth: This is a purple state. Best to apply your boycott elsewhere. The crazies that are in the legislature got there by gerrymandering and would most definitely not be hurt by a boycott.

  61. 61
    raven says:

    @beth: All the brothers and sisters that go skiing might!

  62. 62
    Belafon says:

    @scav: Sounds like we’re going to need a 3/5th rule.

  63. 63
  64. 64
    Mike G says:

    The County Board of Elections made the decision to disqualify Mr. King first as a voter and then as a candidate based on residency his photograph.

  65. 65
    hoodie says:

    @Betsy: A boycott of Boone might not be a bad idea. A lot of out of staters go there, and that county is trying to disenfranchise students at Appalachian State by closing an on-campus voting location and making everyone go to a single spot that is inconvenient for students and likely will be overcrowded. Same goes for parts of the coast, which is full of reactionary retirees but depends on tourist income. Just don’t boycott NC cities like Raleigh, Durham, Charlotte and Asheville, they’re all blue.

  66. 66
  67. 67
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @rikyrah:

    O/T, and I know it was the N&O reporter, not you, but this is one of my pettest of peeves:

    “It immediately turns off a voting block the Republican Party needs,”

    Bloc, not block. A bloc is a group of people or countries with a common economic or political interest. A block is, inter alia, a child’s toy

  68. 68
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @raven: So’s Tom Price.

  69. 69
    raven says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Well there then! And John Barrow’s ex is my doggie’s eye doc!

  70. 70

    Well, to be fair, Mr. King is a little, well, dark, if you know what I mean. We can’t have those people voting and running for office, can we? Who knows where it could lead? We give those people an inch and they want a mile. We outlawed slavery for them, and a lot of good, upstanding white families were thrown into penury because they lost their lawful property when their property up and left the plantations. We even gave them special rights in the 60’s. What more do these people want from us? How much more are they going to ask, nay, demand from us? I swear, these people are never happy. Hell, they can even say “nigger!” and I can’t. That is a real injustice, next to sensibly taking away the vote from these weak-willed people who–let’s be blunt here–really can’t be trusted to exercise that right responsibly. Let’s have a little perspective here.

    Besides, that guy is a thug. You can just tell from his name.

  71. 71
    sparky says:

    @Davis X. Machina: Well, Roman did represent the rather mediocre state of Nebraska. (Yeah, he was my senator during my youth.)

  72. 72
    NeenerNeener says:

    Sorry to go OT but…the puppycam is active again!

    http://www.ustream.tv/SFShiba

  73. 73
    Mike E says:

    @Betsy: @rikyrah: He is still a gigantic stack of shit. He cannot do enough good things to offset his complicity in the heinous liquidation of Iraq and Afghanistan. Keep trying to live that UN dog and pony show down, Colin.

  74. 74
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @raven: Sonny Perdue was a vet, also too.

  75. 75
    raven says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I wouldn’t let that moon-pie eating toothless dope within a mile of Lil Bit!

  76. 76
    SFAW says:

    @AxelFoley:

    No, it’s in there. You just have to read between the lines.

  77. 77
    Adolphus says:

    @Felonius Monk:

    Not only is he black but Elizabeth City State University is a historically black college founded to train “colored” teachers. (it was originally a “normal” school).

    So he is a radical, separatist black as well.

  78. 78

    Is there a way for every student who is denied the right to vote or run for office to sue these people? Isn’t the right to vote worth anything? How about ten thousand a person, plus legal fees?

  79. 79
    Another Bot Splainer says:

    @raven: Yep. The Girl With The Flaxen Hair is another great little piano piece.

  80. 80
    SFAW says:

    @raven:

    Paul Broun and Phil Gingery are MD’s and they are drooling fucking morons.

    Well, they’re just examples of a slightly different meaning of “scary smart.”

    Sort of like: Louie Gohmert is a “scary smart” politician.

  81. 81
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @aimai:

    This is seen as a problem in every rural college district and even in urban areas–college students and their interests are a wild card that no local hierarchy wants to deal with.

    They’re idealistic and haven’t been bought yet. They also don’t have a psychological tie to previous mistakes so no sunk-cost fallacy holding them back. They also have nothing to tie or buy the other pols with.

    Michael Moore’s experiences on the school board as a teen are a good example of what happens in practice.

    In our town a cutthroat administrator exploited the college vote to get into office. She was outspoken on GLBT issues, kind of a guaranteed win with that crowd, but avoiding the story on budget and labor and stuff like that.

  82. 82
    Keith G says:

    @ruemara:

    This shit right here, that all the people up in arms about the NSA because liberdee are ignoring.

    I am glad you are emotionally involved in Mr. King’s case. So am I. Please don’t make the mistake of thinking that we can’t make progress on both of these serious issues (voting and privacy) if we genuinely set out to do so. Several here have made that silly argument and I’m not quite sure which magical cloud they pulled it out of.

  83. 83
    rdldot says:

    @NCSteve: And this is why I say the Democrats should enter Right to Vote legislation all over this country. Make the Republicans vote against the people’s right to vote. See how that goes over with everyone – I don’t think it will at all. Set up Saturday voting, early voting into each of those laws. People will start paying attention when the Republicans vote against those laws. Right now all anyone is talking about is Voter ID and the general public has no problem with that – they aren’t paying attention to the rest of these Republican actions (because our crappy news media doesn’t bother to mention all the rest).

  84. 84
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Candidate Montravias King is a rising senior at Elizabeth City State University

    See!! Right there!! He’s leading an uprising! He’s the Nat Turner of the 21st Century! Stone him! Stone him!

  85. 85
    SFAW says:

    @Adolphus:

    So he is a radical, separatist black as well.

    Interesting point, especially considering who was murdered 24 years ago today.

    No real point, just thought it semi-interesting.

  86. 86
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Adolphus: Yeah, good reminder, the right also hates unions because the CIO and CPUSA were organizing n*****s. And FDR recognized the Brotherhood of Sleepingcar Porters. MLK also, too. That’s why we had to outsource garbage hauling, can’t have ASFCME organizing n***** garbage men boys.

    And when they let women in the unions, that ruin’t ’em too.

  87. 87
    sparky says:

    @aimai: A traditionally black college in a white town? Google can cure preconceived notions. Elizabeth City is 54% black. Census data.

  88. 88
    The prophet Nostradumbass says:

    @Tone In DC: Rachel Maddow has had him on her show at least once so far, so he has gotten some TV exposure.

  89. 89
    SFAW says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    He’s the Nat Turner of the 21st Century! Stone him! Stone him!

    I agree that beating on Tina – well, anyone, really – is a scumbag thing to do, but stoning?

  90. 90

    @SFAW:

    I’ve wondered for a while, now, what’s with all the Republican doctor politicians from the south? There are three Republican doctors from Louisiana in the House, three from Georgia, two from Texas, two from Tennessee, and a Republican doctor senator from Kentucky, and one from Oklahoma, which are, if not really in the south, kind of like the south.

    Outside the south and border states, there are Republican doctors from Indiana, New York, Maryland, Michigan and Nevada. (A long time ago, Maryland was kind of thought to be a border state, but it’s hard to argue that today.) There is only one Democratic doctor in Congress, a psychiatrist in the House from Washington state. I don’t know what this means, but it seems like there must be some reason for it. Maybe some social scientist could shed some light on this?

  91. 91
    rikyrah says:

    igorvolsky @igorvolsky

    DOJ: Texas voter ID law “violates Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act, as well as the voting guarantees” of 14th and 15th amendments.

    11:29 AM – 22 Aug 2013

  92. 92
    The Moar You Know says:

    I think I may see what the problem is.

  93. 93
    mainmati says:

    What I would like to see is a white student with King’s same residency qualifications submit his candidacy request. Then the Board would have to deny him/her too and, if they didn’t even more open and shut a case.

  94. 94
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Keith G:

    Look around and let me know how many of the most vocal commenters on the Snowden threads are here now.

    Yes, you were one of the exceptions to the rule who was supposed to nota bene in the previous thread, but one of the things you were supposed to note was how few of the people up in arms about Snowden’s revelations don’t give a shit about a black guy being denied the right to run for office on a technicality.

  95. 95
    kindness says:

    I fondly remember when there used to be talk about North Carolina becoming some sort of progressive state.

    Sadly now they seem more inclined to tell you you have purty ears and ask if you can squeal like a pig.

  96. 96
    mainmati says:

    @rdldot: Yeah, how come there’s no Democratic version of ALEC? I think that’s a great strategy.

  97. 97
    piratedan says:

    @kindness: well that is thanks to the gerrymandering of some districts and some inept Democratic governance…. still a lot of Dems in NC and you can’t throw an entire state under the bus thanks to some current asshattery, every state has some to a degree, just some are more painfully obtuse about it than others.

  98. 98
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @rdldot: That’s the ticket. Right to Vote. And do a “one person, one vote” campaign. And make it national.

    Let’s bust this republicans voting in every state they own a house. They’re the actual residency fraudsters. Not dorm dwellers and the homeless.

  99. 99
    SFAW says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Mumphrey, et al.):

    Maybe some social scientist could shed some light on this?

    Why?

    I mean, you bring up an interesting (at some level) point, but in the bigger picture, does it really matter?

    (Well, I guess if I were a patient of Broun or Gingrey, I would run as fast as I could from their practice. And if I didn’t, it would mean I’m as stupid as they are. Of course, in response to that point, some might say “That’s what we’ve been trying to tell you, dumbfuck!”)

  100. 100
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @rikyrah: Holder is picking the right battle here.

    Expose these bastards. Make them say what they really mean.

  101. 101
    rdldot says:

    @mainmati: Exactly. Make this a wedge issue. Most average people (meaning not core Republican) won’t agree to these restrictions if they knew they existed. But they don’t. They just think of voter ID and it seems reasonable to them. Take the emphasis off the voter ID and put it where those laws really are – voter suppression.

  102. 102
    piratedan says:

    @SFAW: it keeps them from performing malpractice on patients to the detriment of the country

  103. 103
    Yatsuno says:

    @rdldot:

    Take the emphasis off the voter ID and put it where those laws really are – voter suppression.

    See now, that just makes you shrill. Nay, partisan. Dare I say…UNCIVIL???

    That’s how they drown you out. They attack the tone instead of the message.

  104. 104
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Mumphrey, et al.):

    I’ve wondered for a while, now, what’s with all the Republican doctor politicians from the south? There are three Republican doctors from Louisiana in the House, three from Georgia, two from Texas, two from Tennessee, and a Republican doctor senator from Kentucky, and one from Oklahoma, which are, if not really in the south, kind of like the south.

    Remember, doctors used to hail from a privileged class and the AMA was a right wing, reactionary organization. They did act in their economic (and no other) interest, for example banning Jewish doctors from practicing in the US after the passage of the Nuremberg laws, besides the egad-juice thing the better educated German emigres were competition that was bad for business. (Austrian and German medicine were far advanced beyond the US in those days.) Of course many people died for this idiocy–and the law is still in place today, meaning that foreign-educated doctors must wait years to practice.

    The AMA fought Medicare tooth and nail, hammer and claw. Of course HMOs in the end took their cushy life away and many of the older ones with more options are now into wingnut welfare grifting, they’re true believers and lobbyists pay better than pharm reps these days.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that while MDs have continuing education, unlike in the field of engineering the requirements are lax. Some MDs never bother to keep up at all. Medicine of the 50s was a radically different beast from how it is practiced today.

    Doctors used to own their own practices and could grow very wealthy but today’s young doctors dream of salaried jobs, too far into debt to buy a practice. AMA looked the other way while medical schools ramped up tuition because they felt the schools were a gatekeeper, strangling competition and keeping fees high.

    There is always a cost to being a profession more highly paid than others.

  105. 105
    SFAW says:

    @piratedan:

    Only medical malpractice. Political, moral, and intellectual malpractice, on the other hand, seems rampant.

  106. 106
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    D’oh! Double negatives messed me up:

    one of the things you were supposed to note was how many of the people up in arms about Snowden’s revelations don’t give a shit about a black guy being denied the right to run for office on a technicality.

    That’s what I get for trying to comment and talk to my supervisor at the same time.

  107. 107
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Mumphrey, et al.):

    The noisy, visible (but not actually honored in practice) entrepreneur worship of the GOP draws them. Although an increasing number of physicians are the direct employees of hospitals and hospital-like entities, there’s still a lot of doctors out there who over time begin to identify primarily as ‘small businessmen’ who happen to have ‘MD’ after their name

  108. 108
    SFAW says:

    @Yatsuno:

    See now, that just makes you shrill. Nay, partisan. Dare I say…UNCIVIL???

    Your noting of that uncivilititude makes YOU the true UNCIVIL one, you know.

  109. 109

    @Another Holocene Human:

    Interesting. I didn’t know any of that. Still odd, though, that most of these guys in Congress would be from the south.

  110. 110
    LAC says:

    @Mnemosyne: He/She needs to wait, okay!

    I got what you meant and thank you – it needs to be said.

  111. 111
    Steve in the ATL says:

    Paul Broun and Phil Gingery are MD’s and they are drooling fucking morons.

    Hey, you forgot my drooling fucking moron, Dr. Tom Price. We love drooling fucking moron doctors in Georgia. I live in the wealthiest city in the state and we re-elect this drooling fucking moron every time with either token or no opposition.

  112. 112
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Betsy: Good for Mr. Powell. Is he still a Repub? Needs to just come out of that party altogether at this point.

  113. 113
    Kay says:

    @mainmati:

    What I would like to see is a white student with King’s same residency qualifications submit his candidacy request. Then the Board would have to deny him/her too and, if they didn’t even more open and shut a case.

    Texas is now saying they aren’t redistricting to deny Latinos representation, they’re redistricting to deny Democrats representation.

    So the question then becomes can you say that if Republicans are the white people Party? Is passing laws to target Democrats just a broader sweep that will always include disproportionate numbers of Latinos and African-Americans? This question may actually end up being argued in a court: “are Republicans the white people Party?” You know, lawyerly words, but like that :)

  114. 114
    SFAW says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    I live in the wealthiest city in the state and we re-elect this drooling fucking moron every time with either token or no opposition.

    You obviously fail to understand that the rich are also the smartest. And most deserving of that wealth. Thus, it is YOU who is going against the Natural Order of Things, a/k/a the Gospel According to Mammon (Praise Republican Jeebus, amen!)

  115. 115
    Belafon says:

    @Keith G: The only reason I would make the argument is when I look at the DK Recommended diary list: You’d think every American is being spied on, all the time, and that every tech company in the world is leaving America. And someone got something out of Obamacare. There are a few non-NSA posts every now and then.

  116. 116
    SFAW says:

    @Kay:

    Texas is now saying they aren’t redistricting to deny Latinos representation, they’re redistricting to deny Democrats representation.

    So they’re saying gerrymandering was OK before they let the darkies vote? Good to know.

  117. 117
    TriassicSands says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    One look at Mr. King’s photo and it was obvious to me that he isn’t qualified to vote in North Carolina. I expect the GOP’s next move to declare victory in the Civil War, um, excuse me, The War of Northern Oppression, and re-instate slavery. After all, it’s pretty obvious North Carolina Republicans don’t recognize or at least would rather not recognize Amendments 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 20, and 24.

    The idea that Obama won North Carolina in 2008 seems like fantasy now, a mere figment of my imagination.

  118. 118

    So in NC you have a 30-day residency requirement to vote in state and local elections. What is the residency requirement to pay state and local taxes?

  119. 119
    NobodySpecial says:

    @Mnemosyne: There’s a difference between ‘don’t give a shit’ and ‘don’t need to join the amen choir’. Seen any of those people describe this as Black People’s Problems? Yeah, I didn’t think so.

    Save your high dudgeon for when you really need it.

  120. 120
    rdldot says:

    @Yatsuno: But you don’t even have to say anything. When Republicans vote against a voting rights bill, it speaks for itself. No one needs to be shrill. Everyone who votes would rather vote on Saturday than Tuesday, right? Everyone who votes would rather have early voting options, right? Who would vote against that, and more importantly, why would they? This is what an average person thinks – we don’t care what the base of Republicans think – they don’t vote for us anyway. We care about everybody else.

  121. 121
    piratedan says:

    @rdldot: well the Dems just need to get it out of committee, I’d like to think that there’s still an R naive enough to go along and help them do so, but if this sinks into the mire its because there’s one thing the R’s know how to do, and it’s how to not legislate.

  122. 122
    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us? says:

    @hoodie: What frustrates me about the electorate is that whenever a GOPer who “looks” moderate comes along, voters seem to buy it hook, line and sinker. That’s how Snyder got elected in MI. Then when the guy turns out to be far more radical than expected everyone’s all surprised. How many times can you fall for the same fakeout?

  123. 123
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Mumphrey, et al.): most doctors are republicans because money.

  124. 124
    danimal says:

    In my dream-world, the entire left-end of the political spectrum would sink their fangs into this issue and not let go. This is political gold for showing the depravity of today’s GOP. Most moderates look at the Washington budget shenanigans (shutdowns, debt ceiling threats) as kubuki theater, and to some degree they are right.

    But people get outraged when specific political acts hurt real people in easily understood, demonstrable ways. Montravius King should become a poster child for GOP voter disenfranchisement. It’s time to use GOP over-reach on voting rights as a political weapon-against them.

  125. 125
    dianne says:

    Make the college professors declare whose side they are on. The students have a right to know if the person who is supposed to be imparting knowledge is an establishment Republican or supports the students. I would want to know if my law professor believed in my right to vote or in the Repub’s right to deny my vote.
    Post it on line when you find out – most students check out their upcoming teachers and other student’s opinions ahead of time.
    Hopefully, certain teachers will notice a drastic drop in student enrollment due to their draconian views.

  126. 126
    Tyro says:

    @Davis X. Machina: I hear this all the time. The thing is that running a doctor’s office is really nothing like starting a small business in the traditional sense. MDs are always trying to glom on to the “small businessman” mantle without an understanding of what most entrepreneurs are going through, the issues they face, or what it takes to sustain a customer base.

  127. 127
    Mnemosyne says:

    @NobodySpecial:

    There’s a difference between ‘don’t give a shit’ and ‘don’t need to join the amen choir’.

    You have no trouble joining the “amen choir” when mistermix or Cole posts about what assholes we are for not caring enough about the NSA. It’s only with stuff like voting rights or Stop and Frisk or women’s rights where you’re reluctant to join the “amen choir.” Funny, that.

    Seen any of those people describe this as Black People’s Problems?

    Uh, nobody has to describe these as Black People’s Problems because it’s pretty obvious whose problem it is when you look at the story. And it’s also pretty obvious why Greenwald and Snowden’s amen choir is silent whenever one of these stories shows up.

    Save your high dudgeon for when you really need it.

    Like the next time I’m told that there’s a theoretical possibility that maybe the NSA could potentially be looking at the headers of my e-mail? That seems to deserve a lot of high dudgeon around here.

  128. 128
    rdldot says:

    @piratedan: Doesn’t matter if it does or doesn’t get out of committee. This needs to be done by Dems everywhere. City, county, state, senate, house. Over and over again. Just like the defund Obamacare. We win even if we lose if the voters are aware that Republicans are voting against the bill. That’s the point of a wedge issue. You win even when you lose.

  129. 129

    @rdldot:

    And this is why I say the Democrats should enter Right to Vote legislation all over this country. Make the Republicans vote against the people’s right to vote.

    Won’t happen. What will happen is that it will disappear into committees, where it will be converted into voter suppression legislation with the same title.

  130. 130
    rdldot says:

    @danimal: Enter my Right to Vote act. Voting on Saturday. Early Voting.

  131. 131
    rdldot says:

    @danimal: Enter my Right to Vote act. Voting on Saturday. Early Voting.

  132. 132
    johnny aquitard says:

    Just had someone I work with read us something he came across on the net: that most young people consider owning to a mobile phone to be more important to them than having a driver’s license.

    He was stunned by that. He said he was surprised because when he was a teen the driver’s license was the goal. He’s 29. He’s surprised only 10 years made a difference in the half-generation between him and 19-year-olds.

    I told him about a factoid I read here (IIRC), that some 25% of these youngest adults do not even have drivers licenses. (which made sense to him considering what he had just learned). I pointed out that had greater ramifications beyond a seemingly simple change in what kids consider to be the mark of independence, because of these new voter id laws republicans were passing everywhere.

    I asked if he could explain, given what he knows about the lack of drivers’ licenses among the youngest cohort of eligible voters and their changing attitudes toward getting one, that what the republicans were doing wasn’t disenfranchising 25% of that entire cohort.

    If voting is dependant on a drivers licence — and 25% of them don’t have one, and most of them don’t think getting one is the most important thing to them, and most of them would have a hard time getting to a DMV to get one even if they wanted to get one — then it’s apparent what the GOP is doing is trying to disenfranchise a group of voters who vote at least 2-to-1 for Democrats.

    I’m not so concerned about that co-worker. He picked up on what it means, even though he was kind of shocked that’s where the trail led.

    Not so with another co-woker who had listened in on the whole conversation. He was miffed. He has mentioned before he doesn’t believe there’s voter suppression. Nothing wrong with requiring a drivers license to vote. They do that when you buy liquor, don’t they? Then he sulked and went out to lunch in a huff. This was an otherwise very intelligent guy who is (was anyways) not a wingnut.

    I really hate conservatives, not just for what they do directly to people as a result of their FYIGM policies, but for what they have done to how people view something as foundational to government as voting. It is so frustrating to see their lies have gone mainstream and even intelligent people accept their kindler gentler version of jim crow voter suppression.

    When they turned fire hoses and attack dogs on people they didn’t want voting, there was no hiding what they were doing, no possible rationalization for anyone watching to go along with what they were doing.

    It’s not fire hoses now that they use to keep the wrong kind of people from voting. It’s drivers licenses.

  133. 133
    danimal says:

    @rdldot: I completely concur. Properly messaged, this issue is political gold. Most folks don’t care much about voter id requirements, but systematically disenfranchising students at a black college is WAY beyond the tolerance level of centrist Americans.

  134. 134
    rdldot says:

    @johnny aquitard: This is what I’m talking about. Voter ID seems perfectly reasonable to the average person. The Republican won that argument. We can take it away by bringing up a Right to Vote act, which also seems perfectly reasonable to the average person. When the Republicans vote against a Right to Vote act, the average person will look at the voter ID thing differently. Then they will start to wonder if maybe the Republicans had something else in mind in the whole voting process. Then they will start seeing there is something else going on behind the voter ID. What’s really going on is suppressing votes – not making voting ‘better’, which is what they think now.

  135. 135
    johnny aquitard says:

    @Davis X. Machina:

    They’d better be treating everyone else in East Lansing the same way.

    I think they want and intend to. Then they will do that shit-eating grin and tell us there ain’t no descrimination here — every college student is equally disenfranchised the same way. That’s the republican version of equality.

  136. 136

    @sparky:

    A traditionally black college in a white town? Google can cure preconceived notions. Elizabeth City is 54% black.

    Of course, something like 20% of the town’s population are associated with the college and almost all black, so the rest of the population are majority white. IOW, they can keep things under white control if they can keep the students from voting. And the decision was made by the county board of elections, not the town, and the county is majority white, and would have a stronger white majority if they could keep those black students from voting. So yes, there’s a very strong reason to think that local politics, including local racial politics, are an important factor.

  137. 137
    The Moar You Know says:

    Good for Mr. Powell. Is he still a Repub? Needs to just come out of that party altogether at this point.

    @Patricia Kayden: You can keep General My Lai right where he is, he has earned that position. I don’t want him.

  138. 138
    kindness says:

    @piratedan:

    you can’t throw an entire state under the bus thanks to some current asshattery,

    Well I just did and I did it with lots of snark. So please don’t think poorly of me if I generalize about the population of your politicians. The did get elected ya know. Having said that I do hope this gets folks off their kiesters to vote (for better people) in future elections. Otherwise I will continue with the Deliverance snark. Sorry. It’s the law.

  139. 139

    @What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?:

    How many times can you fall for the same fakeout?

    Every single fucking time. It’s really very simple: they know what they’re buying, but fakeout gives them plausible deniability.

  140. 140
    johnny aquitard says:

    @rdldot: Alas, I am inclined to agree with Roger Moore, that such an act will either disappear in a committee (the House is run by the same people who do not want such an act ever to see the light of day). Or more likely, they will do the now-standard GOP Orwellian special and the Right to Vote act will include all kinds of voter id provisions to, you know, safeguard that sacred right to vote. Which is just like buying alcohol or driving a vehicle.

    Anyhoo, voter id is not yet a reality here in WI. That means the GOP has not yet won that argument.

    Time to call my congress people. That’s a place to start.

    Any people know of an organization in Wisconsin that is involved in this issue?

    So sick of this shit.

  141. 141
    john b says:

    @Roger Moore:
    i recently learned (and correct me if i’m wrong here. i easily might be) that the boards of elections in NC are all appointed by the governor and they are thus all 2 republicans and 1 democrat. In the past this hasn’t been as big of a deal because the committees generally tried to build consensus votes so as to build their legitimacy. that is no longer the case.

  142. 142
    johnny aquitard says:

    @NCSteve:

    No, really. That’s what they say.

    Yeah, I’ve heard that “We’re a republic not a democracy’ thing a couple times now.

    Thought it was odd the first time, then I thought they just were so butthurt they liked the sound of ‘republic’ because it sounded like ‘republican’ and ‘democracy’ sounded too close to ‘democrat’.

    But I see now it’s a necessary game with meanings they must play if they are to fabricate some kind of truthiness that lends legitimacy to their voter suppression among the clueless, the low-info and the willfully misinformed public.

  143. 143
    The Moar You Know says:

    well that is thanks to the gerrymandering of some districts and some inept Democratic governance…. still a lot of Dems in NC and you can’t throw an entire state under the bus thanks to some current asshattery, every state has some to a degree, just some are more painfully obtuse about it than others.

    @piratedan: Sure I can. And will, even though well over half my family has taken up residence in that humid hellhole.

    NC Republicans are doing what they’ve always told everyone they would do if given a chance. NC Dems decided to squat on their hindquarters and watch soap operas or post on the internets rather than get out the vote, and this is the inevitable, predictable response. Don’t hand me a bunch of shit about gerrymandering, that was post-election. NC Dems did that to themselves. Don’t hand me any shit about Republican majorities, there were enough Dems in 2008 to turn the state blue. This is not a Republican thuggery issue, it’s an abject failure by state Dems issue.

    Elections really do have consequences. The consequences will take years, perhaps decades to undo. Sometimes life lessons are hard.

  144. 144
    nemesis says:

    We will need to experience some pain before most citizens take notice.

    That means voting will be a mess in 2014. Folks will be outraged. Too late for ’14 but maybe in time for ’16.

    Lets not expect our Dem leaders to act hastily. Wouldnt be prudent. Must wait for the problem to blow up, then ride the wave. Maybe Reid can threaten a voting rights nuclear option. That’ll put some fear into the gop, right?

  145. 145
    Ruckus says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    Block in this case is not a totally inappropriate term.
    A block can also be a concrete product, this being a valid comparison in that the rethugs have as much intelligence as that block. I will concede that a concrete block is more useful though.

  146. 146
    johnny aquitard says:

    @danimal:

    systematically disenfranchising students at a black college is WAY beyond the tolerance level of centrist Americans.

    What those centrist americans need to see right up in their face is that the systematic disenfranchising of students is at every college.

    student = black = hispanic = lib = democrat = enemy.

    That’s republican math, right there.

  147. 147
    bemused says:

    @beth:

    Did you see the video of the Boone election board meeting with the two newly elected Republican male members? I watched it on Daily Kos. It was an hour long but riveting. At one point, the woman member turned to one of the newbys sitting next to her and commented to him that with his real estate business, did he think it was a great idea to antagonize half the people in town. She was awesome. There was another shorter video at the same Daily Kos piece with the same woman asking the two why she and the woman who has run the election process for about 27 years why they didn’t get a packet of the polling changes they had made until the day of the meeting. She said they violated open meeting laws and listed other transgressions. She told them, “You boys should be ashamed of yourselves”. The other people in the room definitely agreed.

    Rachel Maddow covered some of this Wed night and more last night. Those two Republicans had the minutes of the meeting changed to leave out portions that they wanted to hide, such as combining three polling places into one saved no money.

    Rachel reported there was a meeting in Cary with the state election commissioner (?) and election judges, etc from all over the state, many newly elected Republicans. He told them not to let videos of their meetings get on youtube.

    Bulldozing this crap through actively trying to hide what they are doing.

  148. 148
    Keith G says:

    @Mnemosyne: Unlike you, my super secret mind reading abilities are crap. Therefore I don’t know what they give a shit about. And even at the evidence that they are more enthusiastic about one topic over another, I’m not sure I can draw any conclusions about the underlying motivations. You seem to be willing to. That’s your game.

    May I suggest that you (and others) show the courage of your convictions and personally address these concerns to those who seem to qualify and stop this passive aggressive process of judgement by generalization.

  149. 149
    rdldot says:

    @johnny aquitard: I don’t expect it to pass. That’s not really the point (right now, anyway). The point is to make the Republicans vote against a perfectly reasonable Voting Rights law and then make them try to defend that vote. The point is to move your work buddy away from his understanding about what the Republicans are really doing. And forcing the Republicans to vote against the Voting Rights bill will start moving him in that direction. Once he sees the votes against the Voting Rights bill, he starts realizing that the voter ID laws aren’t about making voting ‘better’, it’s really about making voting ‘harder’. The average person won’t like that one bit. But he doesn’t see it now.

  150. 150
    Ruckus says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Mumphrey, et al.):
    This may be overreaching but isn’t the south somewhat poorer than other areas? That means fewer patients with the ability to pay. If you are an idiot Dr. with a small practice in a smallish town what will you do to get rich? Run for office and hope for some of that grifter funding.

  151. 151
    hoodie says:

    @The Moar You Know: You’re generally correct, but the gerrymandering is going to make it very difficult to recover. The state dem party was riddled with corruption (Speaker Jim Black, Ag Commisioner Meg Scott Phipps, Gov Mike Easley, etc.) and, with the exception of Jesse Helms, the more visible Republicans in this state in the recent past were on the moderate side, all of which made it easier for the GOP to gain the upper hand. I’m not sure 2008 was representative, however, that was a record turnout year.

  152. 152

    @rdldot:

    The point is to make the Republicans vote against a perfectly reasonable Voting Rights law and then make them try to defend that vote.

    That would be great if the Democrats could get their version to the floor. But in practice what will happen is that the Republicans will rewrite any legislation the Democrats suggest into the exact opposite without changing the name. Then they’ll vote for it and try to crucify any Democrats who vote against it for not supporting the Everyone Gets A Pony Act.

  153. 153
    Chris says:

    @Kay:

    Texas is now saying they aren’t redistricting to deny Latinos representation, they’re redistricting to deny Democrats representation.

    That in itself should be fucking illegal. Even if every last Democrat and Republican in Texas were white Anglo Protestants so that there was no possibility of racist influence, “oh hey, we’re going to redistrict because we think people who vote differently than we do shouldn’t be allowed the same representation as the people who vote for us!” should be considered a gross abuse of power by any standard.

  154. 154
    Chris says:

    @What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?:

    What frustrates me about the electorate is that whenever a GOPer who “looks” moderate comes along, voters seem to buy it hook, line and sinker.

    Yeah, that infuriates me too. I call it Arnie Vinick Syndrome – the desperate hope among moderates and far too many Democrats that a Gorbachev-figure will come along, save the Republican Party from its extremists and return it to its glorious roots as a moderate, reasonable, Very Serious party. The notion of Republicans as the “real American” party and the legitimate heirs to power feeds into this (as does the reflexive, Pavlovian need for ritual hippie-punching as a demonstration of your seriousness).

    If you’re such a moderate and the current state of the GOP (which won’t even allow a moderate to run in East Coast states anymore) concerns you so much, then what’s wrong with simply admitting that yes, the party has gone fucknuts, and simply voting for the people who don’t want to abolish Social Security or hang gay people from lampposts? It’s not an uncommon occurrence for political parties to go extinct (once upon a time it even happened in America) and for democracy to get along just fine with new ones. There is no fucking law that says the Republican Party shall be entitled to a seat at the table of power, or that we’re obligated to rescue it from itself, or wait until it rescues itself, if it goes crazy. Let the mad dog die and the republic roll on, already.

    (This isn’t addressed to the 27% who believe the GOP is entitled to power forever, but the mushy middle really drives me crazy with this).

  155. 155
    Chris says:

    @johnny aquitard:

    Thought it was odd the first time, then I thought they just were so butthurt they liked the sound of ‘republic’ because it sounded like ‘republican’ and ‘democracy’ sounded too close to ‘democrat’.

    It’s something that’s only surfaced since Obama’s election (I’m too young to remember if they did this in the Clinton years, but I don’t remember it under Bush). I see it as a not-so-subtle way to announce that they’re butthurt at the democratic process for choosing someone other than themselves, and saying “well if the people don’t know what’s best for them, the people shouldn’t be allowed to govern themselves.”

  156. 156
    Bob's Had Enough says:

    @rdldot:

    And this is why I say the Democrats should enter Right to Vote legislation all over this country. Make the Republicans vote against the people’s right to vote.

    Absofukinlutely. Fight back with something constructive.

    Write legislation that makes it easier to vote in every state. Make those jerks publicly vote against it.

    Name them and shame them.

  157. 157
    Mnemosyne says:

    @johnny aquitard:

    IIRC, that was the title of a book Pat Buchanan wrote during the Clinton years, but I don’t feel like looking for it.

  158. 158
    Kay says:

    @Chris:

    That in itself should be fucking illegal. Even if every last Democrat and Republican in Texas were white Anglo Protestants so that there was no possibility of racist influence, “oh hey, we’re going to redistrict because we think people who vote differently than we do shouldn’t be allowed the same representation as the people who vote for us!” should be considered a gross abuse of power by any standard.

    I think it’s a win in the sense that prior to this it was all wide-eyed “who? US? Never!”

    The truth is the Texas election changes are egregious, and DIRECTLY targeted at Latinos. Conservatives are fucking terrified of voters.

    They’re starting a huge push for proof of citizenship now. All we’re going to see in the next 3 years are restrictions targeting Latinos. I think it’ll be the big voting story of the 2016 election. Look southwest and west for the next group of “undesirable voters”.

  159. 159
    kindness says:

    @Kay: Undesireable voters – Thank goodness it isn’t race based any longer. No now Texas thinks so long as they are discriminating against Democrats it’s all OK.

    Who was the lawyer they ran this legal theory through before they announced it?

  160. 160
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Ruckus: You make a valid point. I shall reconsider the pettishness of my peeve.

  161. 161
    cmorenc says:

    @Davis X. Machina:

    Isn’t that an open-and-shut case, at least on the voting, unless the Supremes want to overturn Symm v. United States (the Prairie View case)?

    But that decision was like, so 1979 SCOTUS edition, back when there were still enough DFHs like John Paul Stevens to be a majority on the court, instead of sound, right-thinkin’ responsible jurists like Altio and Scalia in the majority, restoring constitutional law to originalist Federalist principles. And who was President when his U.S. Attorney General brought the suit in Symms in U.S. District Court? That dirty commie Gerald Ford (can’t blame this one on Jimmeh from Plains, the 1976 election was still a month away) and his socialist A.G. Edward Levi, who maintained a clever cover disguise as a lifelong Republican (geez, Sen. McCarthy was right after all!)

    Bottom line: The 1979 Symm decision in the hands of the current 5-member SCOTUS majority will protect Mr. King’s (and his fellow students’) voting rights about as well as the SCOTUS precedent of South Carolina v. Katzenbach (1966) upholding the VRA did in the recent Shelby County decision. Chief Justice Roberts, Alito, Scalia, Thomas, and Kennedy can be counted on to restore the scope of the eligible electorate back to proper folk instead of shiftless students, ethnics, and folks without a square inch of real estate or more than a few beers worth of pocket money to their name.

  162. 162
    ruemara says:

    @Keith G: Honey, I’ve been here and I’ve seen things myself. It is not part of the conversation, but we can get a 500 comment thread on whether stealing classified documents and transporting them internationally is a crime and if journalistic immunity while aiding in this crime is transferred via sexy time and why is the US forcing the UK to do mean things. Give me a break.

  163. 163
    feebog says:

    @ cmorenc:

    Chief Justice Roberts, Alito, Scalia, Thomas, and Kennedy can be counted on to restore the scope of the eligible electorate back to proper folk instead of shiftless students, ethnics,

    I think you are exactly right. Republicans are COUNTING on these challenges going all the way to SCOTUS, where they expect years of precedent to be overturned. Scalia need to drop dead into a big plate of pasta sooner rather than later.

  164. 164
    Mnemosyne says:

    @ruemara:

    Yep. Note that the only “civil liberties” commenters I’ve noticed (so far) who crossed over from the Snowden/Greenwald threads to this one are Keith G and Another Holocene Human. (NobodySpecial may count since s/he delurked to complain about my broad brush.) Other than that … crickets.

  165. 165
    Keith G says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    @ruemara: I think part of it is the juice/energy/conflict that surrounds the NSA threads. There are many sides with some paleo progressives even taking a position that all is good, the FISA hearings work, the government is less intrusive than Google, and anyway if you got nothing to hide……etc.

    That is some weapons grade seriously stupid shit. People lose their mind, frustration builds, emotions pour forth, trolls troll, and voila…a TBogg Unit is reached.

    Is there anyone here arguing for stop and frisk? Voting rights restrictions?, Pre abortion ultrasound probes?

    No

    So these threads create less heat. There is no juice, just a bunch of wonderful progressives all agreeing about what’s what. Boring for some. And very skippable

    Please do not give in to weak reasoning and assume that the thread skippers are doing so because they do not care if every brown young man in NYC gets stopped. That smacks of a pathology of victimhood. Maybe they got nothing to add to a thread over a one sided (for here) topic.

    We have enough worthy fights on our plate without making other ones up out of thin air.

  166. 166
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Keith G:

    We have enough worthy fights on our plate without making other ones up out of thin air.

    Which sounds very noble until you accuse the people who don’t agree with you about the NSA thing as being “paleo progressives” who are “taking a position that all is good.”

    Sorry, but you are arguing for an assumption of good faith and good will that has never been extended to the people who are skeptical of Greenwald and Snowden’s claims, and obviously never will be, so I don’t see why I should assume good will on the part of people who always assume that I am acting out of bad motives. I’m not a fucking Quaker and have no urge to assume good will on the part of people who are assholes to me about their pet issue.

  167. 167
    Keith G says:

    @Mnemosyne: So you see how easy it is to stir up a back and forth on some issues and not others. Good’

    Aaaaand I never assumed that you were acting out of bad motives. I can disagree without thinking you are a bad person. Paleo does not equal bad person. In that usage it connotes old…as in an old way of thinking.

    You gotta admit, that there are fewer progressive writers who are writing that the status quo is okay – that the NSA behavior is just jim dandy and within the lines. If that’s you, then you are in a progressive minority. Revel in your uniqueness.

    Don’t diss the Quakers. Good folk. Learn from them. “Good will” quite often leads to good karma.

  168. 168
    John 2.0 says:

    @hoodie: Funny thing about that list of people you mentioned. They were all investigated by Kim Strach, former investigator for the NC State Board of Elections, current Executive Director of the North Carolina State Board of Elections. Would you like to know how many Republicans Mrs. Strach had investigated in her 10+ year career? Exactly one, Rep. Decker but only after he switched his party allegiance. Mrs. Strach declined to investigate a Republican state senator (who was also minority leader at the time, and candidate for Governor) who was running a small private business out of his tax payer funded office. A custom mail order business who’s only clients were lobbyists. Or another Republican house member who exposed himself to his legislative assistant and ran from the building.

    Mr. Strach, shockingly, is Phillip Strach, a powerful Raleigh lawyer and high ranking Republican. Funny that.

    Also: I know people don’t like Easley for not being Jim Hunt, but I don’t see any evidence of corruption. He had a high ranking staffer, and personal friend go to jail for something stupid (basically letting someone pay for the open bar has his wedding), but Easely was never convicted of anything. And he faced a hostile capitol press corps for 8 years, and was subject to a multi-year investigation from a AUSA who had literally nothing else to do. What came of this? A failure to file a like-kind exchange campaign finance report 12 years prior. I wouldn’t call that corruption.

  169. 169
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Keith G:

    Aaaaand I never assumed that you were acting out of bad motives. I can disagree without thinking you are a bad person.

    Which is why you’re actually bothering to post in a thread about elections. The people you’re defending? Not here, because they don’t give a shit about anything but their own White Dude feefees.

  170. 170
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @johnny aquitard: Does he realize you can’t legally purchase liquor at 18, but you’re guaranteed the franchise, or is the repeal of Prohibition the last Amendment he’s aware of?

  171. 171
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @feebog: carbonara

    pasta alone doesn’t have that je ne sais quoi, quoi cholesterole?

  172. 172
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Keith G:

    Please do not give in to weak reasoning and assume that the thread skippers are doing so because they do not care if every brown young man in NYC gets stopped. That smacks of a pathology of victimhood. Maybe they got nothing to add to a thread over a one sided (for here) topic.

    Weak, Keith, weak.

    I think you need to detox from a 1980s George Will and William Safire overdose.

    It’s not victimhood, it’s sorting out the most existential threat. NSA reading my email headers vs NYPD illegally stopping and searching a whole population. Hmmmm. Hmmmm.

    Besides which, even if the spooks ARE reading my emails illegally, you know that LOCAL POLICE can read your emails LEGALLY if they get a warrant, right?

    That seems to be the unspoken subtext that really pisses would-be anarchists/middle class white pot smokers off.

    If the law is unjust (DMCA) change it. Following some right wing trolls who changed their stripes into tearing apart the civil liberties coalition (such as it is) is called YHBT. HAND.

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