First: God, or rather his alleged representative on earth:
As a colander-carrying Pastafarian, I’m only interested in the religious beliefs of others as an anthropological exercise or mode of self-defense (knowledge being power and all) and care about the Catholic Church only insofar as some of its hierarchy seek to use political influence to restrict women’s autonomy, repress gays and operate a global child-rapist protection ring.
In the anthropological sense, though, it’s fascinating to watch the Opus Dei wing of the church insist that Pope Francis is exactly like Ratzinger, because shut up, that’s why. Pope Francis has shown signs that he maybe he takes Jesus’ teachings about the poor and service over dogma seriously. Maybe Francis really is Ratzinger with a better media strategy. But it’s fun to watch far-right Catholics freak out or Pope-splain every time he says something that isn’t overtly hostile to gays or people without a stock portfolio.
Second: Florida legislature to review “Stand Your Ground” this fall:
The wingnut speaker of the wingnut-majority FL state house, Will Weatherford, announced the upcoming review in a Tampa Tribune op-ed that was larded with wingnut talking points:
[A]s the current speaker of the House, I have been asked to repeal [“Stand Your Ground”]. “Asked” is a generous term considering the threats of boycotts, union-sponsored protesters overtaking the governor’s office and Hollywood elites disparaging our state and threatening the livelihood of hard-working Floridians.
He couldn’t have worked “Benghazi” into that sentence? Weatherford serves up another wingnut meme:
The fact is, George Zimmerman’s attorneys did not use “Stand Your Ground” in his defense, a detail that protesters and critics have incorrectly ignored. Nevertheless, in the wake of the Zimmerman case, “Stand Your Ground” has been challenged.
This is a popular bit of misdirection on the right, dressing a lie in truth’s clothing. While it’s true that Zimmerman’s defense team didn’t invoke “Stand Your Ground,” the law changed jury instructions in a crucial way, and at least one of the jurors who have spoken out about the verdict to date cited it as a critical factor in her decision to acquit Zimmerman.
Here are the pre-SYG juror instructions:
The defendant cannot justify the use of force likely to cause death or great bodily harm unless he used every reasonable means within his power and consistent with his own safety to avoid the danger before resorting to that force…The fact that the defendant was wrongfully attacked cannot justify his use of force likely to cause death or great bodily harm if by retreating he could have avoided the need to use that force.
And here are the instructions the Zimmerman trial jurors received, which are different because of SYG:
If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
Sorry to be a broken record on this point, but it’s important to refute the falsehood that SYG had nothing to do with the Zimmerman verdict. Gun nuts and people who are determined to minimize the significance of Trayvon Martin’s killing for other reasons seem to have settled on selling that lie to make sure nothing changes.
We know that a lie repeated often enough can become received truth. Ten years ago, expert liars piled bullshit high enough to get our fellow citizens to roll over for a ruinous, unnecessary war. Today, NRA lackeys like Weatherford are using the same tactic to ensure that Florida remains a subtropical OK Corral.
It’s pretty clear from Weatherford’s op-ed that this review is a pro forma sop, most likely undertaken to head-off any serious boycott momentum. And given the composition of the FL legislature and public opinion on the issue, I’d be shocked if anything changes, but honestly, I’m surprised they’re going to review it at all. Big Mouse must’ve gotten to them.
Third: On overcoming fear
As I mentioned before, I’ve been teaching my teenage daughter to drive my old, beat-up, stick-shift Beetle. We — or rather, I — had a breakthrough yesterday. Our driving course for the day was a half-built housing development that maybe went bust during the crash. At any rate, there are acres and acres of perfectly beautiful roads with no houses and no traffic, so it’s ideal for learners.
The kiddo made it to third and then fourth gear and was navigating traffic circles, stop signs, turns, etc., like a pro. At one moment, we were tooling along a straightaway, and I realized there was something missing, and suddenly it hit me: I was relaxed. The thing that was missing was that overwhelming, barely repressed sense of panic. Progress!
Chris
It took me an entire year before I was comfortable driving the family stick shift and God damn if I didn’t swear like a sailor the entire time. But once I’d gotten comfortable, though? SO grateful to my parents for insisting that I learn.
NickT
Y’all want evidence that the Divine Noodly Appendage is reaching into the world to shape its fate for the better? Look no further:
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/santorum-open-to-2016-run?ref=fpb
Ahh says fywp
Look, no fair, fla gop has majority, wingnuts do not, what they have is control bc they undid corruption reform durinf supermajority which means ” donors” have ultimate leverage. Also, the redistricting and lovely term limit regime pushes out those who might have the power to stand up to Darden Disney, Cains NRA, ATT, etc.
Origuy
Has Francis named any new cardinals yet? Seems to me who he names will be a telling point, as they will be choosing his successor eventually as well as running the Church.
Ruckus
It’s always nice when teaching someone anything that you have that moment when you realize that they get it. The more complex the subject the harder it is to find that moment, but also the more satisfying. And that moment usually arrives quietly, sneaking up on you. Same as it does for them in realizing that they understand.
Mike in DC
Thanks for pointing that bit out about the SYG law, and its effect on the jury instructions. I think I missed the importance of SYG and the jury instructions, and not as a specific legal defense.
eemom
This times eleventy infinity gazillion. Yay for you, Mrs. Betty.
Yatsuno
FYWP destroyed my comment.
JCT
I learned to drive on a ’71 VW bug that I bought myself for 1K back in ’78. Still remember my dad teaching me on that car. Loved that thing –
NickT
@Yatsuno:
You used dried basil again, didn’t you? Fess up now!
Yatsuno
@NickT: There are good legitimate reasons for using dried herbs every now and again. I always have dried thyme, oregano, and rosemary, mostly because A) I have a black thumb and B) if I buy it at the store I never use it fast enough. So yes, reasons, dammit!
No the blog is still borked, though I might need to do a cookie purge as well.
trollhattan
Great post. Even Maher has good things to say about “Frank” because of his outreach to the poor and yeah, I can imagine Bill Donohue’s daily “My god, why hast thou forsaken me”s and smile a bit.
Speaking of bad-acting adults, my kid is in a soccer tournament this weekend in an adjacent state, and her team made the championship match this a.m. They lost a 2-1 squeaker but some of the parents couldn’t help notice the, uh, rather mature appearance of their opponent U12s and decided to protest the game. Just got a call that yup, a lot of them are 13 and 14 and so there’s to be a makeup match.
If youth sports is is a way to groom our kids for life, is part of the lesson plan, “Honey, this is a chance to discover in life that people really suck”? I’m having a hard time framing this one.
Cassidy
Oh God! Teens are involved in a significant number of fatal accidents every year. We need to euthanize all of them. It’s the only way to be sure this menace can be stopped.
Yatsuno
@trollhattan: I think there’s a lesson here, but it has more to do with adults than the kids. It doesn’t inspire a lot of trust in people however.
NickT
@trollhattan:
Parents cheated in U12 soccer? What is the world coming to? Shouldn’t that have been a forfeit and possible expulsion for the cheating team?
raven
@trollhattan: I spent 20 years in municipal recreation and my main emphasis was youth sports. I finally gave up/
raven
@NickT: Yea, and get some lawyers involved too.
MattF
Yeah, I was thinking, just the other day, that Francis might actually be a Christian. I rate that as ‘unlikely’ but ‘trying to be a Christian’ would still be pretty good, not to mention unexpected.
NickT
@raven:
I am sure Cassidy can provide a few execution squads, given his passion for mass slaughter. We might not even need the FEMA re-education camps.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
So where’s the Doctor Who thread?
NickT
@MattF:
He might even take the New Testament off the Index of Prohibited Books.
We all have dreams, right?
the Conster
@Cassidy:
LOL. But would you rather shower in prison than get in a car with one?
raven
@trollhattan: I’ll tell you something else, there can be a great variation in physiological development at that age.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
TMM II is now 23 and I still can’t get myself calm enough to allow him to drive me anywhere. 7-year old memories of his inscrutable use of the brakes has me bracing against an imaginary dashboard with my left hand as I type this with my right.
trollhattan
@Yatsuno: @NickT:
It’s absolutely the adults who shoulder the blame, although I wonder how the winning side feel about their accomplishment, knowing they were in the wrong bracket.
Don’t know what the outcome will be for the team, but they were stripped of the win. They’re part of the host league, who presumably will “have a word.”
We’re new to this competitive league, having only done local rec previously, so I’m unprepared for the Uber Sports Parents, who seem every bit as fixated on their kid being on track for that NCAA scholarship and Olympic berth as anxious Ivy League parents are about their kid being in the “right” prep school. To both of whom I can only suggest finding a new sandbox.
NickT
@trollhattan:
I can’t help remembering that a number of questions were raised about the real age of some members of the Chinese Olympic team in 2008, especially the women gymnasts IIRC.
NickT
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):
How about his parallel parking?
TMM?
You there?
TAPX486
I’ll believe Francis is something other than the same old wine in slightly less dusty bottles, when Cardinal Law is sent back to the US to face justice for his actions, or the words ‘objectively disordered’ to describe gays is removed from the lexicon or the American bishops worry as much about hungry children as they do birth control pills. Otherwise, he just has a better PR team.
Betty Cracker
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): Haha! My mother turned me into her chauffeur as soon as I learned to drive. I don’t think I’ve been driven BY her since 9th grade. Even when we go on long trips, I have to drive the whole time. Luckily, I like driving.
Yatsuno
@trollhattan: You are RUINING little Buffy’s chances to a full ride to Stanford! RUINING IT!!! All because of your stupid adherence to silly rules!
raven
@NickT: And Japanese little leaguers and East German female track athletes just to name a couple of more.
raven
@trollhattan: Get the child out while the getting is good. He or she doesn’t need that shit.
NickT
@TAPX486:
I’ll take it seriously when he has Dolan dragged in by his tiny little testicles and warned seriously to stop jerking off Paul Ryan and start reading the mother-fucking New Testament, damnit.
NickT
@raven:
Which is clear evidence that we need more teachers packing heat in schools, amirite?
TAPX486
@NickT: YEP, another one that should have a star turn on MSNBC’ prison porn series.
? Martin
The gun nuts are just substituting overwhelming firepower for cowardice. Their entire argument for more guns and less regulation is based on fear – fear of a representative government, fear of minorities, fear of poor people, fear of being robbed, fear of the police. They’re all fucking cowards and this won’t stop until we start calling them cowards to their face.
They claim that guns are the prescription to government tyranny. They claim that obamacare is tyranny, that gun regulation is tyranny, that taxation is tyranny. Yet with all the guns they already have, they don’t act against their perceived tyranny. They’re cowards. If the Chinese or the space aliens or the mexicans or whoever they think will overrun our borders, they’ll all be found hiding in their basement with their guns too afraid to come out and help.
raven
@NickT: :)
NickT
@? Martin:
Give ’em five minutes and they’ll decide that restaurant menus are tyranny, because, as we all know, real Americans should never have their choices constrained by little details like reality.
Baud
Soon she’ll be ready to practice shifting without spilling her coffee.
NickT
@TAPX486:
Every time I hear Dolan’s greasy little mouth yapping out the latest teabaggerism, I realize that some people really do miss General Franco.
? Martin
@Cassidy: Now now, don’t be so hyperbolic. If we put them in a chemically induced coma at age 13 and take them out at 21, consider all the problems we solve. It’s even a pretty good jobs program.
The Red Pen
Is it Obama’s 52nd birthday today? The #wingnutbutthurt level is ultra-violet and they’ve been mentioning that a lot. Apparently, Obama is golfing while he’s delegated the handling of the Al Qaeda outbreak. This is somehow worse than Bush ignoring the warning signs leading to 9/11 or looking like a deer in the headlights at the start of said tragedy.
Renewed calls for impeachment etc. etc. Why can’t these assholes die of the aneurysms that are clearly imminent?
trollhattan
@Yatsuno:
I think of it more as keeping Buffy safe from Condi. :-)
@raven:
We’ll see how it goes. So far she’s enjoying the challenge of the harder team and making new friends not from her school. I’m very leery of all the travel. Luckily the futbol is not her onliest thing in life. She’s coming home to a hand-addressed package from the White House, apparently a response to her letter to the president seeking his advice for her class president campaign this fall.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@NickT:
He never had to attempt that with me in the car. I knew better than to give him lessons- grandpa (let’s call him Temporarily Tony Canadeo) had experience teaching my niece to drive, and was retired, with time on his hands when it was time for TMM II to learn.
@Betty Cracker:
I think part of it is that I drove a lot as part of my old job . I’m a bit jaded. I’d rather- with a few exceptions- drive myself.
The Red Pen
@Baud:
FTFY.
NickT
@The Red Pen:
Obama went golfing on his birthday? WORSE THAN BENGHAZI!!! IMPEACH!!!!!
That would be the general wingnut tone, yes?
the Conster
@? Martin:
Fear, but also they just don’t understand the entire notion of consent – they won’t take no for an answer to anything that doesn’t grant them the entitlement they feel they’re owed by virtue of doing nothing but being born into a period of time that has favored them due to the prior successful exploits of white men shamelessly and arrogantly wielding brutal power over the less powerful. Our current day wingnuts think that somehow they’ve earned all of their privileges too, and waving their guns around is to let everyone else know that denying them their way will come down to a shoot out, even though everyone knows that they’re just a bunch of tiny-dicked fat-assed clowns.
My late Fox-loving conservative FIL worked himself into an early grave by trying to control everything everybody did to bend it to his liking whether they wanted it his way or not, which they didn’t. The older he got the more grumpy and miserable he was to everyone around him because he just couldn’t abide people doing things their way and not his.
NickT
@? Martin:
Unincorporated teenagers are people too, my friend.
Or so the Little Not-Red Book of Chairman Romney informs me.
NickT
@the Conster:
I like to think of them as the Micro-Phallocracy.
raven
@trollhattan: Sounds like she’s grounded and ya’ll know what you’re doing. I just had such constant bullshit with crazy parents that, 20 years later, I’m still leery.
MattF
@NickT: Amusing note from Dana Milbank about how wingers engage in doublethink when attempting to deal with the fact of you-know-who being President:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-gop-flips-the-script-on-president-obama/2013/08/01/7c51a724-fafa-11e2-9bde-7ddaa186b751_story.html
:
WereBear
Don’t ask me. I was ostracized for weeks, on Long Island, by asking if our pre-teens should be forced into sports… or not.
The Red Pen
@NickT:
Close, but nothing is worse than Benghazi. NOTHING!!!!!!!!.
IowaOldLady
@? Martin: When my son turned 12, a friend told me this story. When your child is about 12, a monster comes and takes your child away and leaves a monster child in his place. The only way to get your child back again is to learn to love the monster.
It’s the second part of that I remembered and treasured.
NickT
@WereBear:
You were imposing the tyranny of options on them. Don’t you know by now that many people prefer the freedom not to have to choose?
raven
@WereBear: thank you, thank you very much. I had a huge fight with some idiot parents that insisted that 8 years olds be allowed to play a zone d in basketball. Yea, don’t teach kids how to actually PLAY, you know, defense. And then there were the ones that thought a lower bucket and a smaller ball was a communist plot!
TAPX486
@The Red Pen: well at least worse than the IRS (hmmm what is the word I ‘m looking for) oh yes non scandal
trollhattan
@WereBear: @raven:
I was unprepared for the vast array of organized activities kids have to choose among today. When I was a kid there were scouts, the Y, little league and pop warner–and chasing kids offa the lawn. Hazy recollection but I think my kid has done ballet, music theater, guitar, cello, piano, swimming, volley ball, archery, soccer, zoo camp, ASPCA camp and painting/drawing.
Pretty sure I’m forgetting some.
We’ve never shoved her into any of these but have just one stipulation: if you begin it, you must see your commitment through. Naturally, kids being kids most of them didn’t stick, but a few have.
Roger Moore
@trollhattan:
I’d go with the success of the challenge as the teaching point. The other guys broke the rules, they were caught, and now your kid’s team has a second chance at the game. See, it’s important to follow the rules, and don’t be too afraid of challenging somebody you think is breaking. Rule breakers are hoping not to be caught or for people to be too afraid of challenging them, but when they are challenged the authorities can step in to make things right.
gogol's wife
I miss the General. I looked quickly at someone’s comment upthread, and for a moment I thought it was his. Then I remembered.
Roger Moore
@? Martin:
FTFY. They, for one, will welcome our new [insert group here] overlords.
scav
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): Exactly. I mean, it’s been announced, so we’re well into second phase speculation in some quarters. . .
WereBear
Ah, Florida. The summer I was twelve, I rode my bike through endless road grids, the edges of the development I lived in that was, not yet, lived in.
Then I encountered a child predator who simply chatted me up while hanging out the driver’s side window of a station wagon. I bless the impulse that scared the bejeebus out of me… and kept me from ever riding my bike through that unpopulated paradise, ever again.
shelly
Poor Weatherford. It’s alway amusing to hear big, tough wingnuts whining whenever someone has the nerve to criticize. Big Hollywood elites ganging up and hurting his feelings? Oh, my!
NickT
@WereBear:
Not to revive old traumas, but how did you know this person was a child predator? I am genuinely curious as to what the signs were.
I remember when I was a kid, there was an oldish man who used to do really quite accomplished chalk drawings on the sidewalk. I mentioned him to my mother when I came home from college after my first year there – and was shocked when she casually told me that he was a known child-molester and had used his drawings as a means of luring children.
Betty Cracker
@WereBear: Scary! I think one reason Florida has a reputation for nuttiness is because so many weirdos simply run out of road here after drifting from place to place.
When I was a teenager, we used to have wild parties in half-built houses.
opiejeanne
@Baud: Or shifting without using the clutch.
I’m not sure if that’s possible with a modern stick, but I did it a few times when I was learning and when I was really listening to the engine I could hear when to shift and I simply forgot to use the cluch. My dad was shocked because he was with me and saw it happen.
Roger Moore
@MattF:
Let’s see if there’s any follow-through, or if this is just one more temporary response. Blind pig, acorn, etc.
NickT
@Roger Moore:
I’ll give Milbank some credit for having been more willing to report like this than many in the media. He’s streets ahead of, say, Chris Cillizza.
trollhattan
@Roger Moore: Good points, thanks.
Tehanu
@? Martin:
And it works for them, too, per Mark Twain, whose take on adolescence I’ve always treasured: “When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.”
WereBear
Perhaps it helped that I was on the cusp of child/teen. There was an intensity to how he studied me that was entirely different from what I had previously experienced with adults: who pinched my cheeks and kissed my head and otherwise squeed over me as though I was a particularly intelligent lap dog. They thought I was cute… but they didn’t think I was, you know, “human.”
I could see how that intensity would trap children; he paid incredible attention to everything I said and did. It was “hungry,” is all I can say; if I had not been a loved child I would have been drawn as a moth to a flame. He ATE UP everything I said and did; if I had no experience (as someone who was paid attention to) I would have craved it like a drunk craves alcohol.
Fortunately, I had enough experience from the benign version to be warned away from the malign version. I was a very sheltered child at the time; I learned the facts of life from a book that was about telling one’s child about the facts of life. My parents never did get up the courage to actually discuss it.
When I refused the offered ride (I said, “No, thank you,” since I was well-brought up) he simply nodded and moved on. But I had nightmares about him coming back. I saw that station wagon, here and there, at a distance that summer, but would not leave my driveway.
There were no other children to ride with, or warn, but I never rode alone, again, in that development.
NickT
@WereBear:
It’s funny you should mention intensity as the key quality of your interaction, because that’s how I remember the drawings that my neighborhood’s sick older man did on the sidewalk – brilliant, intense colors. That’s stuck with me over the years, even though I remember almost nothing else about him. I don’t know whether this all adds up to even a micro-casserole of beans, but still…
Gian
@Cassidy:
sadly too late for you
WereBear
@NickT: I feel incredibly fortunate that attention was how his trap was baited; I had attention, at home, and knew what the happy version felt like.
Another popular ploy is to say they have a kitten or puppy we can play with, or who needs help… as a lifelong animal lover, I would have fallen for that in a heartbeat.
dmsilev
@The Red Pen:
A few days ago, the local rag had an editorial about why Obama should have his library here in Chicago. Nothing out of the ordinary, and I’m sure equivalent op-eds are running in Honolulu and Nairobi (er…). Anyway, someone wrote in today saying that, well,
The Wingnut is strong with this one.
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
I think that comes at about 25 to 30 hours of driving. PA requires 50, and I recall the last part of it being fairly calm. My take on it is that you’re not ready to deal with other drivers until about 100.
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@opiejeanne:
I’ve done it on our ’90 Miata and ’98 Jetta. Are those modern? Haven’t tried it on the ’01 Jetta yet, I’ll get around to it one of these days when I show my son how to get home without a clutch.
Roger Moore
@trollhattan:
The other point I’d make is that it may seem like the other team is getting an unfair advantage- they’re getting a second shot- but it’s actually your kid’s team that’s getting one. The other team has to win twice- once with their unfair advantage and once straight up- to advance, while your kid’s team only has to win one of the two games. It sounds as if the first was close, so they had a real chance the first time in spite of the other team’s cheating. If they had won, the other team would have had no recourse, but even when they lost they got a second bite at the apple.
Haven't read the evidence, Bob
My take on the shooting of Trevon Martin was doing nothing illegal or suspicious.
That George Zimmerman had no legal authority to confront Martin.
After Martin walked away from him, Zimmerman stalked him
Martin attempted to remove himself from danger, attempted to flee.
Martin was unable to do so because Zimmerman was using a car to track him down.
When Martin had no choice but to stand his ground Zimmerman killed him.
Anyone more familiar with the facts have something that does jive with that?
dp
One thing I’ve never understood about SYG, which I think is important in the Martin-Zimmerman case. The law says, “If [shooter] was not engaged in an unlawful activity,” he can stand his ground.
Zimmerman was initiating a confrontation with Martin while carrying a firearm. Martin was reasonably in fear of being attacked. Isn’t that aggravated assault, which is “unlawful activity”?
lojasmo
@NickT:
Ted & Helen’s “older mentor”? It would be irresponsible not to speculate.
The Red Pen
@dmsilev: A couple of days ago, a coworker exclaimed, “Obama says Benghazi is a ‘phony’ scandal.”
Me: Why is it a scandal? It’s not like it’s the first attack on an American consulate where Americans were killed. What was different this time?
CW: [He makes some claim involving a Seal Team]
Me: Seal Team operations are classified. If someone is leaking this information, you have a duty to report them. If you have personal knowledge of this, you shouldn’t be discussing it. If you don’t know this information to be true, you are trafficking in rumors.
CW: [silence]
If I had known that working for the military industrial complex was going to be this fun, I would have done it years ago. I work in a classified area and in the wake of the Snowden story, we’ve been told not to repeat any classified information, regardless of what we hear in the news. Basically, this guy could lose his job for repeating Fox talking points about Seal Team operations.
Mustang Bobby
Old VW’s were the best to learn stick shift driving. Very forgiving and the clutches are made of something that lasts forever.
I learned how to drive a stick shift in April 1969 when I was 16 and my folks helped me buy my first car: a 1965 Mustang 2+2. (Gee what a surprise.) It had the standard three-by-the-knee and the test drive was my baptism into the world of clutch, brake, shift… but not necessarily in that order. By the time we got the car home from the dealer, I pretty much had it nailed. My dad, who had learned to drive on a 1939 Hupmobile, was a good coach.
Fast forward to 2009 when I bought my latest Mustang. I had a choice between 5-speed auto and stick. I went with the auto because most of my commute is in stop-and-go traffic, and my knees ain’t getting any younger.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Cassidy: That is a great idea! Teenagers are so horribly annoying that a world without them sounds like a divine improvement. Wait.. you were being sarcastic, weren’t you?
Ted & Hellen
Kinda hard to NOT stand your ground, or to get up and retreat from the scene when someone’s on top of you pounding your head against the pavement.
But I’m sure you could manage it, Betty, so it’s all good.
MomSense
@raven:
I was a ballet dancer and still have nightmares about the dreaded “stage moms”.
I bet there are some youth sports parents who could give them some competition.
Tim in SF
My stepdad, a former traffic court judge and a current (at the time) probation officer, taught me how to drive in a 68 Beetle. I’m sure it was hard on him to teach me how to drive. But it wasn’t too easy on me, either.
That poor man. I need to give him better Father’s Day presents.
MomSense
@The Red Pen:
Judging from the newsmax headlines at the top of this page, health concerns seem to be a problem with this group. Lots of home remedies for diabetes and stimulating the metabolism. I
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
@Ted & Hellen:
Dear fuck! You’re not still retailing this myth? This guy, the guy without a fucking mark on him, was a few minutes before getting his head “pounded against the pavement” so hard as to be life-threatening? How stupid are you?
These “head injuries” didn’t appear until days later, when he figured he needed a better story for why he murdered an unarmed teenager and the cops decided they needed a better story for why they didn’t arrest him. The night of the murder—Jack Shit!
NickT
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge:
TeddyTroll just likes being a greasy little racist to offend people. It’s part of his ugly little soul at some deep and nasty level. He comes here to be unpleasant and to shill for his pathetic attempts at “art”. Basically, he’s a mutant spambot with delusions of grandeur.
LeftCoastTom
I learned on an automatic in Michigan…my first time driving a stick was test-driving a car at a dealership in the Bay Area. I actually did OK…and drove a stick (because it was better in the mountains) until my latest car, where the better gas mileage of CVTs was too much to pass up.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
My dad tried to teach me to drive a stick, but he drove Fords, which meant the clutch was nothing but an on-off switch. I only learned later on when I bought a Campmobile (a VW Bus fixed up as a camper-van). That was a thousand times easier. Still been stuck with almost all automatics all my life, though.
Ted & Hellen
It’s alternately pathetic and hilarious how commenters here recreate reality to suit their biases, re Zimmerman and a host of other instances.
Not my job to educate you, fools. The evidence put before the Zimmerman jury is everywhere on the Intertrons to be reviewed.
Not the fantasies you entertain in lieu of evidence, mind you, I mean the actual evidence.
You probably still believe Zimmerman was told not to get out of his truck. lol
NickT
@Ted & Hellen:
TeddyTroll sez:
FAAART
Please buy my shitty art
FAAART
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
@Ted & Hellen:
Look at the video from a few minutes after the murder, you moron. Not a fucking mark on him! Explain that.
hamletta
I’m a shithead for scrolling past everyone, but everyone dropped out of my driving group, and I told my driving instructor I would be taking the drivers’ test in a manual-transmission Pinto station wagon.
He nabbed a manual Honda Civic and made me keep it on the steepest hill in town with just the clutch.
This is not recommended for a car that you actually want to keep, but it’s very good training.
Ted & Hellen
@NickT:
Hmmm…would that be a personal attack?
I enjoy that it annoys you that enough people buy my scribblings that I make a good living from it. I’m guessing you hate your job. I’m glad.
Ted & Hellen
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge:
I’m curious which video you are talking about, as there is more than one. Link please?
I will follow that with my detailed analysis.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
@Ted & Hellen:
The blue text is a link. Put the cursor over it and click your left-hand mouse button.
Ted & Hellen
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge:
No blue text showing in your comment on my end, other than the link back to my comment.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
@Ted & Hellen:
The link was in my original comment, genius.
More importantly, I was awake when the murder happened and saw plenty of footage of Zimmerman’s totally unblemished condition the night of the murder. Most of it has of course gone down the memory hole as the MSM got with the “fight” narrative—and nobody who was paying attention was allowed to serve on the jury, so the pictures of his “injuries” from days later were swallowed whole.
LeftCoastTom
@Ted & Hellen: He probably made the unfortunate assumption that your comments on this thread’s Zimmerman comments meant you were following those comments…
It was this comment
Older
Since I’ve had opportunities to watch the police talking to troublesome people, I do in fact believe that they told Zimmerman not to get out of his vehicle. T&H seems to believe that it was “just a suggestion”.
But in my experience the police rarely make suggestions, and when they do, they say that’s what it is (eg, “I’d suggest you take Schwartz Road; we’ve heard the floodwater isn’t very deep there”). When they regard a person as a problem but are still hoping to settle it peaceably, they say “We need you to (eg) put down the gun, sir.” They hope it won’t escalate to the point of “This is the last time I will ask.”
So when a person, whether a police officer or a police dispatcher says “We don’t need you to do that, sir,” what I hear is “Don’t do that.” And I wouldn’t do that, but then I’m not a gun-toting wannabe “Neighborhood Watchman”.
Ted & Hellen
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge:
What, you can’t provide a fucking link? I”m supposed to find your “original” comment. Fuck you.
It’s hilarious that you have convinced yourself that the MSM was backing Z. Delusional, even.
If you’re talking about video from the police station, it was taken four hours after the shooting. Z had been cleaned up and wasn’t bleeding anymore, and the video is from a distance and grainy.
Can you provide your diagnosis of these photos?:
broken nose
bleeding abrasions/cuts
Thanks! Love you.
hitchhiker
@ Betty Cracker
I used to develop high-end, evidence-based driver training programs — even got to see them tested on multiple thousands of teenagers with good results in their first year of solo driving.
Here’s the one thing I’d advise anybody with a teen to HAMMER LIKE THOR:
leave a lot of space between you and who you’re following. Like, 3 x TIMES as much as you think you need. Staying way back is the right strategy in every situation, from freeway to sitting at a stoplight. Stay back = both room to maneuver and time to react. If you can get her to feel like she needs to drop back, you’re building in some real safety advantage.
My fave study with teens involved a set of in-vehicle sensory devices combined with a camera. Whenever the kids slammed the brakes, the camera recorded what was going on, and parents got a little summary at the end of each week showing how often brake-slamming had occurred. One kid, interviewed when the study had run its 6 month course, confided that he’d figured out how to never get the brake-slamming memo sent to his parents: “I JUST LEFT LOTS OF EXTRA ROOM.” Bingo.
Less brake-slamming means less close calls means less crashes. It’s math.
LeftCoastTom
@Ted & Hellen:
You’re supposed to have been following a conversation that you pretend to be interested in.
Ted & Hellen
@Older:
Idiot
Z was already out of his truck when the dispatcher said something along the lines of “we don’t need you to do that…” at which point Z replied “OK” and turned back toward his truck.
The dispatcher testified it is very much police policy NOT to give orders to citizens in such situations; doing so opens them up to liability issues.
In trials of any kind, there are things called facts. They matter.
Ted & Hellen
@LeftCoastTom:
and still no link.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
The “injuries” were inflicted days later when they were needed for the narrative, The night of the murder—nothing. Because you’re too fucking mindless to look back for it, here’s the goddamn link again.
“Cleaned up” your fucking ass! He was having his head “pounded against the pavement” so hard as to be life-threatening a few minutes earlier, and they “cleaned him up” but he didn’t need a fucking band-aid for these horrendous head wounds? I ask again, how fucking stupid are you? FOADIAF, you shitweasel!
LeftCoastTom
@Ted & Hellen:
…and you’re a liar.
Ted & Hellen
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge:
Your meaningless video was shot FOUR HOURS after the shooting. The pics I posted upthread were much earlier. Fuck off ass pimple.
Trayvon doubled back on Martin and attacked him. It sucks but there it is.
Racist!
LeftCoastTom
@Ted & Hellen: Hey, you “found” the non-existent link!
You ever been injured? I have, thankfully only once – back of a ski whacked my head. It was not life-threatening. 4 hours afterwards I was just leaving the ER w/ staples in my head.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
@Ted & Hellen:
Bullshit your pictures were “earlier”. These life-threatening head wounds didn’t even need a fucking band-aid by four hours later?
Trayvon doubled back on Martin? OK, if you say so…
There was no fucking fight. Zimmerman had a hardon to kill him a ni99er, he picked out an unarmed teenager as being safest, he stalked, hunted him down and killed him in cold blood. There was no fight, there were no “injuries” until they were needed to sell the story. The pictures you linked to are from days later. Look at the fucking video. NOT A MARK ON HIM!
Edit: and what orifice did you pull “four hours later” out of?
Ted & Hellen
@LeftCoastTom:
And…was your experience entered as evidence in the Zimmerman trial? Can’t imagine why not…
Let us now review your comment upthread referencing the video at the police station:
Hmmm…by conflating a few minutes with four hours you weren’t trying to be deceitful or anything, were you?
Ted & Hellen
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge:
You’re pulling your bullshit out of your ass. So I won’t be engaging you any further.
“Four hours later” comes from material at the link you provided as well as a hundred other places on the web.
Police officers testified Z’s injuries were present when they first saw him after the shooting.
Now have fun jacking off to the pleasing narrative you’ve decided to believe. Best wishes!
LeftCoastTom
@Ted & Hellen: Again with the lying? The comment which you cite was not my comment.
BillinGlendaleCA
@hitchhiker: When I used to live in the hilly part of town, I’d get folk in BMW’s and Benz that would drive right up to my bumper at stop lights. I’ve got a manual trans 1986 Jetta, a few of them almost got a bit of unintentional front end work.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
The “injuries” were inflicted when they were needed to sell the story. The MSM swallowed them hook line and sinker. Only if you were awake and saw the footage from the night of the murder before it went down the memory hole would you know Zimmerman was absolutely unmarked the night of the murder, and if you were, you weren’t allowed on the jury. Their only sin was believing what they were told—which was actually pretty stupid, now that I think about it.
Not a mark on him asshole! Explain that or GTFO!
TAPX486
My wife cracked her head on a bookcase some years ago. Bleed like a stuck pig. Several hours later, one cat scan and a number of staples we left the ER. Regardless of when the photos were taken, it seems to me that if Zimmerman had his head banged on a cement sidewalk 25-30 times, the back of his skull would be in very tiny pieces and his brains splatted all over the sidewalk..
What I don’t understand is the Zimmerman supporters point of view that Zimmerman was justified in defending himself because of his fear of Martin, but Martin is not accorded the same benefit of the doubt that he was in fear of Zimmerman. After all It was Zimmerman who initially followed Martin and not the other way around. Why wasn’t Martin allowed to stand his ground in the confrontation? IF SYG allows for the use of deadly force if you fear death or bodily harm, then Martin in using his fists was meeting the same test, only with less firepower.
LeftCoastTom
@TAPX486:
I see that as the real problem with “Stand Your Ground”, at least with FL’s jury instructions where the defense isn’t even required to raise it – the person who “stood their ground” is clearly whomever survived, and we’re supposed to believe the survivor’s account unquestioningly, because the only other witness isn’t around to confront his accuser. I read those instructions and wondered how FL ever managed to convict anyone of murder, particularly if there are no witnesses.
TAPX486
@LeftCoastTom: From what I understand as a non-lawyer, the state has to prove, in a self-defense case, the survivor was NOT in fear of his life. Obviously proving a negative and getting inside in this case Zimmerman’s head is impossible.
LeftCoastTom
@TAPX486: I’m a non-lawyer as well – on TPM I read Josh Marshall quoting a WI lawyer’s email expressing the same issue w/ FL law. Here.
Which raises the possibility that simply removing SYG may not be enough for FL to fix it’s law, but it can at least put things back the way they were before.
Betty Cracker
@LeftCoastTom: Getting rid of SYG would be a good first step because it’s a shitty law, regardless of where you come down on the Zimmerman verdict. An even better change would be to rescind the million-plus concealed carry permits floating around the state. Sadly, neither outcome is likely.
NickT
@Ted & Hellen:
I’m guessing you spend your days flipping burgers, Timmeh, and have sold one of those excretions of yours in the last 6 months. To your poor, confused mother. Bless your teabagging heart .
Ted & Hellen
@LeftCoastTom:
Whatever…it’s the same tape. Jesus.
Ted & Hellen
@TAPX486:
Well if you had followed the trial you would know. These are not mysteries. This has all been covered in the trial.
When TM doubled back around and surprise attacked Z and was banging his head on the sidewalk, HE became the aggressor. It was then Zimmerman’s option to SYG.
It’s really not that complicated. You’re just twisting yourself into pretzels to reassure yourself of your non racist cred of something.
Ted & Hellen
@NickT:
In what way does what you “guess” have any effect on reality?
I’m guessing you had butt plug and typhus stew for dinner.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
The part you gloss over is that this never happened. If it had, don’t you think those grievous head injuries would at least require a fucking band-aid? Even if it was, as you fantasize, “four hours later”?
“Following the trial” as you call it, would only hoodwink you like the jury was. The MSM was in the can for Zimmerman from the get-go and allowed him and the Sanford PD to change their story to fit whatever narrative they decided on, secure in the knowledge that most people wouldn’t remember seeing him the night of the murder without a mark on him.
Again, explain why there’s not a mark on him the night of the murder! You can twist and you can turn, but THERE’S THE VIDEO!
Ted & Hellen
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge:
The jury got it right.
BTW, I suppose you still think the jury was “all white,” right?
TAPX486
@Ted & Hellen: I realize this is a waste of time and electrons but where is the evidence that Martin ‘circled around to attack Zimmerman’? other than George’s word. Yes they obviously encountered one another but whither it was planned or an accident we will never now. The fact remains if Zimmerman had STAYED IN HIS TRUCK, none of this would have happened.
A Humble Lurker
@Ted & Hellen:
To use your own argument, you were there that night? You didn’t submit what you knew to trial?
As for his injuries: Medical examiner said they were very insignificant.
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
The jury was lied to, how could they have “got it right”? I neither know nor care whether they were “all white”. My question is, how id it possible there were six of them instead of twelve? This wasn’t small-claims court.
Again, explain why there’s not a mark on Zimmerman the night of the murder. At least TRY to come up with some lame theory. You can twist and you can turn, but there’s the video!
Not a mark on him, Not a mark on him,Not a mark on him! Explain that, asshole!
TAPX486
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge: In Fla. all criminal trials, except 1st degree murder are tried with only 6 jurors. I think Fla is the only state that does that. Whither it would have made any difference I’m not sure. Given the instructions given to the jury by the judge, they reached a legally reasonable, maybe only, decision. That doesn’t mean it was right in a larger moral sense or that the SYG law should not be changed. However given what they had to work with, the verdict isn’t really a surprise, disappointment yes but not a surprise.
mclaren
You have to wonder how long it’ll be before some newly formed Aztec church claims the right to sacrifice infants to Quetzalcoatl because it’s their deeply held religious belief that child sacrifice is right and moral…
TAPX486
@Ted & Hellen: Why are you so certain the Martin doubled back looking for Zimmerman? Maybe Zimmerman was the one who kept looking for Martin, or as is more likely they accidently stumbled into one another in the dark. Both men then reacted in fear and panic and the fight started.
NickT
@Ted & Hellen:
The difference being, my guess was right – and yours was just further proof of your profound unoriginality.
Sucks to be you, but it ain’t our fault, Timmeh.
Betty Cracker
@The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge: It doesn’t look like Zimmerman has any marks on his head in that video, but it’s not a crystal clear image. It’s possible those superficial scratches in the photos Zimmerman’s defense team was waving around during the trial were there, just cleaned up.
You wouldn’t have been able to see those scratches much without the trickles of blood in the photos displayed at the trial. If the blood was wiped away, Zimmerman’s melon might have looked totally unmarked on a crappy video.
Still, Zimmerman’s claim that his head was repeatedly bashed against the sidewalk is belied by his very minor injuries, and his story about TM saying, “You’re gonna die tonight” sounds like the kind of bullshit someone would make up to justify shooting an unarmed person after the fact.
I don’t think Zimmerman set out to murder someone. I think he was an officious little prick who felt emboldened by his handgun to play tough guy. He was so convinced of his own righteousness and TM’s guilt that he didn’t stop to consider that maybe TM was a scared kid who had every reason to be wary of a stranger pursuing him and defend himself accordingly.
TAPX486
TAPX486
@Betty Cracker: What I wanted to say was the last paragraph sums up the entire night in a nutshell.
What I still can’t figure out is why Zimmerman’s supports and conservative in general seem to need to make Martin a cross between Hitler and Stalin.
NickT
@TAPX486:
Because deep down they know Zimmermann is a murderer and a racist – and they don’t like what that says about their own liking for him and what he did.
Betty Cracker
@TAPX486: Good question. Some are probably gun nuts who are loathe to admit there can be any bad outcome from millions of people walking around with guns in public. Others are probably just garden-variety racist shitheads.
opiejeanne
@Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason: Yes, those are modern compared to what I was driving: a ’57 Ford with a slipping clutch. I’m a musician so I think that may have helped me hear it.
Crissa
I failed drivers’ ed in high school… Because you know what? Automatics aren’t easier when you’d only learned in a stick. They do things like jolt off without you when they fall into one of the many driving gears. “You push the pedal and go” was not what they do: You never have the damn things in drive unless you mean to start moving.
A manual doesn’t move unless you make it. Completely different safety problems. I still say it wasn’t my fault ^-^
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge
@Betty Cracker:
I know you’re just trying to be fair and even-handed, but it’s absolutely inconceivable that Zimmerman wouldn’t have had at least a band-aid or two on these “head injuries” so soon after having his head “repeatedly smashed against the sidewalk”. I don’t for a moment believe that there was any kind of a fight.
pluege
on Third: old VW beetles and Microbuses had the very best clutches EVER – ‘like buttah’! They are by far the very best cars on which to teach someone how to use a stick.
pluege
on Two: SYG had every relevance in the zimmerman case because no one could point out during trial that zimmerman had no business stalking Trayvon Martin with a loaded gun – under SYG he legally able do that. Without SYG, he couldn’t. Without Florida’s SYG, Trayvon Martin is alive today or zimmerman – a proven menace to society (and an unconvicted murderer) is behind bars for life.
The Paradox of gun ownership:
“wanting a gun proves a person is mentally unqualified to own a gun.”
zimmerman is one of many poster children proving the paradox true.