This Wyoming Senate primary is going to be a lot of fun to watch. Here’s Liz Cheney reacting to Mike Enzi’s claim that he called and said she wouldn’t run. She calls Mike Enzi “confused” and speculates that he might have mixed her up with Cynthia Lummis, Wyoming’s Congresswoman.
I talked to one of my family members who lives in Wyoming last night, and there’s a rumor going around that Enzi’s health isn’t good, so this is probably one of the ways that Liz is going to not-so-subtly bring that up. That might work, but I think she’s underestimated her opponent and Wyoming voters. They’re a nativist bunch, and she’s a carpetbagger. Enzi, who’s probably more of a reliable conservative than reliable corporatist Liz Cheney, can win on nativism alone. So, five points to Hufflepuff for his first response to the news:
Enzi avoided directly commenting on Cheney during his exchange with reporters, but closed with this thought: “Nobody in Wyoming likes a long campaign – anybody from Wyoming would know that. They’ll be able to make up their mind in a lot less time than from right now until next August, which is when the primary is. You can’t even file in Wyoming until May.”
The rest of the delegation, talking points blatherer John Barasso and dummy Cynthia Lummis (my relative calls her “Lummox”) came out immediately for Enzi. Lummis called her “the shiny new pony”.
As Enzi pointed out, the filing deadline in Wyoming is a many months away. According to my in-state expert, the only way this thing could go south for Republicans is if Cheney wins the primary and former Governor Dave Freudenthal challenges her. Freudenthal is apparently enjoying his retirement and Cheney isn’t going to win, so that’s a moot point.
Gex
It’s hard not to root for a scenario that gives the D’s a chance in WY. But I’m too afraid of giving a Cheney any more power than they already have. It seems like the flip is a long shot anyhow.
gogol's wife
I haven’t been to Wyoming since I was 5 years old, so I have no opinion other than I’d love to see Ms. Cheney’s career end. But I have to say how happy I am to be able to drop into Balloon Juice every once in a while to calm my nerves! Yesterday was hell!
Llelldorin
Are there any WY Dems with really, really outstanding pointing and laughing skills? That’s the only way I can see turning this into a pickup for us.
GregB
Religious wackadoodledoo Bryan Fischer is already pole-axing poor Mini Dick and telling the faithful that Liz likes the gays.
A more worthy candidate for character assassination cannot be found.
Buck up Liz the folks on Moron Joe still like you.
c u n d gulag
Maybe Enzi’s people can find TV clips and Op-ed columns, where Liz isn’t called extreme because she seems normal when her children play kid’s soccer with the LIBERAL MEDIA’S kids in the DC Villages of VA.
They don’t have to add that the reason they thinks she’s not extreme, is that they expected a Cheney to drink the blood of the other children playing – if not kill them, and eat them, outright.
quannlace
Has Fox lost it’s edge. Heavens no. I just saw Obama on CNN giving a speech about Obamacare. Wondered if Fox was airing it too. Yes, but with a plethora of feverish, fear-mongering chyrons. Just when Obama was saying that most folk’s insurance will go down, they were shrieking ‘Fox Poll: 60% think their insurance costs will go up.!!”
RobertDSC-iPhone 4
Fuck you, Liz.
Higgs Boson's Mate
Dave Freudenthal seems to be the only Wyoming Democrat who’s being mentioned as a possible victor in an Enzi/Cheney debacle. I’d appreciate it if someone with knowledge of Wyoming politics would tell me why that is. My first guess, because it’s one of my stable of hobby horses, is that the Democratic leadership simply writes off some states.
Could it be that one of the reasons that Republicans have been so successful in taking over state leges is that the Democratic party doesn’t even try in so many places?
EconWatcher
This reminds me a lot of when Fred Grandy, the guy who played “Gopher” In Love Boat and then ended up in Congress, tried to oust Terry Branstad (known to all Iowans as “Brain-Dead”) for the GOP nomination for Governor of Iowa. The attack ads just wrote themselves (“Hollywood values, “not a real Iowan,” etc.)
Grandy ended up road-kill, and so will Cheney. You don’t attack the homeboy unless you’ve got something really good on him.
dan
Hey, she was of age to sign up for the armed services during Desert Storm. Guess the chick doesn’t fall far from the chickenhawk.
Roger Moore
@dan:
I think that’s a little bit unfair. There’s a real difference between not volunteering for service and dodging the draft.
Redshirt
Whoever wins, we lose.
furlyfly
As annoying as these mistermix talking out of his ass posts are, still better than yet another ball juice Cole post about his fucking cat.
IowaOldLady
I just commented in the Fox thread, agreeing with Redshirt that a HRC presidency would make right wing heads explode. I fear Liz Cheney has the same effect on me.
PeakVT
@furlyfly: Shut up, durf.
Roger Moore
@Redshirt:
That’s the reason to root for injuries. If we’re really lucky, they’ll mortally wound each other.
Villago Delenda Est
@Roger Moore:
Not if you’re a rabid supporter of the war in question. It just makes you to be more of an unprincipled coward who is fine with others dying so you can beat your fucking chest.
Villago Delenda Est
@furlyfly:
There must be a fire somewhere with your name on it.
Please do make an effort to find and die in it.
Thank you.
IowaOldLady
I’d like to speak up in favor of draft dodging during the Vietnam era. Of course, if you do that, you can’t then support the war.
Syrbal/Labrys
There does seem to be this tendency for candidates with nothing of worthy to contribute to basically step up early and act as if a win is in the box. I wonder if it is mere hubris or an actual strategy? It always feels like voters are being told “Well, here is what you HAVE!” Sometimes, the sheeple do seem to buy it.
? Martin
Wyoming will not elect a Democrat. Period.
mistermix
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
Wyoming is a legitimate write-off. Freudenthal became governor by being essentially a slightly more liberal Republican with a D after his name. If you’re Gov in Wyoming, you’re going to be signing bills from the always-majority Republican legislature so the very conservative voters there will take a chance on you. If you go to DC, you’ll be voting with Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi. It’s a different proposition for a voter.
That said if there is a bloodbath here and Freudenthal gets in, he might squeak through. But it would have to be a hell of a bloodbath, with a damaged Cheney beating Enzi after pissing off a bunch of Republicans. In that case, the Democrats ought to pour money into this race, which should be relatively cheap.
Villago Delenda Est
@IowaOldLady:
Dick Cheney, George W. Bush, Ted Nugent, Mitt Romney: she’s talking to you, cowardly assholes. She’s talking to YOU.
Suffern ACE
No one does like a long campaign. I’m just kind of confused about what election we’re talking about here. I thought that this was being held soon! this is about a primary for next summer?
Susan
Higgs Boson’s Mate asks:
“Could it be that one of the reasons that Republicans have been so successful in taking over state leges is that the Democratic party doesn’t even try in so many places?”
Yes, this is a problem. However, Howard Dean tried to address it when he was chairman of the DNC:
When Howard Dean became DNC chair in 2005, he put in place “The 50 state strategy”. This meant that Democrats would compete everywhere. This strategy played huge dividends for Democrats in 2006 and 2008. However, when Barack Obama was elected he replaced Dean with party hack Tim Kaine, who pretty much ripped down the 50-state strategy and reversed all of the gains that Dean had made.
Why the hostility? Because Washington DC is an insular culture of elites – regardless of political party – and Howard Dean’s call for democratizing the party threatened their power base.
.
Litlebritdifrnt
@furlyfly:
I don’t recall any guns being placed to heads and forcing people to visit this site against their will. That having been said please rearrange the following words into a well-known phrase or saying “OFF” “PISS”.
? Martin
@IowaOldLady:
Look, some people are destined for greatness, and some other people need to be thrown into the sausage grinder for the first group to achieve greatness. Don’t be arguing with the natural order of things.
catclub
@furlyfly: “his fucking cat.” No longer correct. Neutered,
Suffern ACE
@IowaOldLady: No. No. You can claim that you needed to dodge the draft due to the lack of an exit strategy. The war was fine, but the poor exit strategy meant that you couldn’t serve. It was your support for a different exit strategy that made it your patriotic duty to object.
KG
@Susan: not disagreeing about DC being an insular culture of elites (as a matter of fact, I’m pretty sure that’s the city motto), but there’s also the fact that the parties have finite resources for each election. Pouring money into an election you were going to lose 75-25 so you only lose 68-32 should have a much lower priority than a race that you can swing from a narrow loss to a narrow win. And it’s not like the GOP doesn’t write of states either – they haven’t fielded a decent candidate for most statewide offices in California for over a decade, the same can probably be said of New York.
FlyingToaster
@furlyfly: Why the fuck are you here? Isn’t there a bridge missing its troll somewhere?
BGinCHI
Speaking of Wyoming, John Boehner is a fucking idiot:
Asked about Congress’s historic lack of productivity in recent years, House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) said Thursday that he “reject[s] the premise” of the question.
“Listen. We made clear when we took over that we weren’t going to be doing commemorative legislation on the floor, that [we’d make] a lot of changes,” he told reporters. “In addition to that, most Americans think we have too many laws. And what they want us to do is to repeal more of them.”
“We’ve got a big job to do here. We need to stay focused on those things that are most important to the American people.”
Please proceed, asswipe.
fidelio
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: Yes. This is why Tenneessee has had such a useless parade of Democratic candidates, even when there was a chance to grab on to Obama’s coat-tails. In addition, the head of the state party, Chip Forrester, was a waste of carbon credits. My landlady had an entertaining encounter with a party fundraiser who was taken aback when she explained just why her contempt and loathing of Forrester would keep her from giving the state party a red cent to squander on any of Forrester’s egotistical follies.
The latest pleasant excitement for Democrats in Tennessee is watching Jimmy Haslam’s problems expand in the warm sunlight of the attentions of the IRS and FBI, and wondering how much of this will splash over onto the nice shiny shoes of his brother Bill, our governor.
KG
@BGinCHI: what the fuck is “commemorative legislation”? I have a degree in political science and a law degree and I don’t think I’ve ever heard that phrase before. And if you’re going to make a statement like “we have too many laws”, that should be followed up with examples that do not include “Obamacare”
rk
As annoying as these mistermix talking out of his ass posts are, still better than yet another ball juice Cole post about his fucking cat.
Seriously, what is wrong with you? Are you forced to come to this blog? Are you forced to read about his cat (you could always scroll down and read the bits you want to read)? Or are you just a fucking moron with shit for brains?
MattF
OT: Tom Perez has been confirmed as Sec. Labor. This is excellent news– Perez is a good guy. I’ve been a fan of his since his involvement in my local county’s politics.
Davis X. Machina
@rk: The simplest theory is usually the best.
Villago Delenda Est
@Suffern ACE:
Liz is eager to start measuring her office in DC for drapes, that’s all. Her decorator needs a lot of time to gather the material from the skins of dead Palestinian children.
dmsilev
@BGinCHI: He should schedule another vote to repeal Obamacare; that generally seems to make his caucus feel better about themselves for a little while.
Just Some Fuckhead
Can we get an update on Captain Catnip?
Forum Transmitted Disease
@? Martin: You’ve got a far better chance of Arizona or Texas going blue next cycle than Wyoming.
Villago Delenda Est
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Boss. His name is Boss.
And don’t you forget it, buster.
gogol's wife
@Litlebritdifrnt:
LOL. You have a way with words, my friend.
gogol's wife
@Suffern ACE:
I thought the standard reason was that you had “other priorities.”
ranchandsyrup
Ugh. From my FB feed on congressional inaction.
That’s how the great oranje boner is spinning it as well. Fucking nihilists. They believe in nothing, Lebowski.
lol
@Susan:
The mythmaking about the 50 State Strategy that happens in the netroots is pretty ridiculous. The only people talking wistfully about the 50SS are people who didn’t understand what it entailed in actual practice (beyond catchphrases like “compete everywhere!”) and still don’t understand why it was replaced. Here’s a hint: Throwing money at the state parties to hire random people for random positions with no goals or accountability doesn’t win elections.
The concept isn’t bad but the implementation was a waste of the DNC’s money.
Let me be clear: The 50SS had absolute dick-all to do with Dem gains in 2006 and 2008 and OFA 2.0 is a vast improvement in every single possible way. Anyone claiming otherwise is laughably uninformed.
scav
@BGinCHI: “Commemorative legislation”? Does that mean all our new Post Office Substations will now go unnamed? Back to the days of stations A-H?! Beyond that, all I can think of is a principled boycott of declaring March National Twinkie Month.
Davis X. Machina
@scav: One big problem — they’re closing them just as fast as they can name them.
Davis X. Machina
@lol: Kay, who was boots-on-the-ground in Ohio for both go-rounds, has a roughly similar tale to tell.
Not a fiasco, but not an unmixed blessing, either.
catclub
@scav: I think they are just commemorative votes, commemorating other votes to kill Obamacare.
“I rise to speak in favor of this bill, which commemorates the 17th vote to kill Obamacare, and is the 77th vote to kill Obamacare.”
Susan
Howard Dean inherited a moribund, disorganised and dispirited party when he became chair of the Democratic National Committee (DNC) in February 2005. He patiently rebuilt the party from the bottom up, state by state, organiser by organiser. His 50-state strategy, as it came to be known, helped pave the way for the party’s takeover of Congress in 2006, expanded majority in 2008 and Barack Obama’s historic election.
Southern Beale
I don’t think Liz Cheney realizes how despised she is. She’s a rhetorical bomb-thrower whose repeated TV talk show appearances to publicly support her evil father have done her absolutely zero good. National think-tank types like her because she throws verbal daggers that are useful for raising money but I can’t imagine anyone — even Wyoming — wanting her as their U.S. Senator.
Just Some Fuckhead
@furlyfly:
You need to take some estrogen and settle the fuck down.
matt
so is liz cheney moving back in with her parents?
Mandalay
@GregB:
Putting aside the visceral dislike of Liz Cheney and her carpetbagging, since she at least supports (limited) gay rights, why shouldn’t she be preferred to Enzi by progressives?
Put another way, how would things be worse for Democrats if Cheney won?
scav
@catclub: I just saw a commemorative plate on e-bay for exactly that vote! I’m assured by the entire a.m. dial that a complete set will fund my retirement in luxury.
gogol's wife
@Mandalay:
We would like to avoid another Cheney in the White House down the road.
mistermix
@Mandalay: Mike Enzi is a quiet back-bencher who votes like a Republican and has no further political aspirations. Liz Cheney wants to move up. If she loses here, it’s a giant, probably career-ending setback. As for her tepid support of gay rights, I doubt that will ever be translated into a real vote.
Davis X. Machina
@Susan: Look, I love the guy. I sent him money in the spring of ’03. I caucused for him. I was a state convention delegate for Dean.
But the 50-state thing had no visible effect here in my end of Maine, at least no effect visible to a member of the Cumberland Co. Democratic committee, from a beet-red town. A little help on the data-processing end of things, was about it.
BGinCHI
Hey Boehner:
If people want less laws and less legislation please quit your job and give your salary back.
You know, people want less plumbing problems too, but they don’t want to shit in an outhouse.
dan
@Roger Moore: Waaah! Not fair!! You’re not being fair to the Cheneys!!!
lol
@Susan:
Do you have any thing to add beyond quoting someone else who doesn’t understand what the 50SS entailed?
Here’s the entirely of the 50 State Strategy: Each state party got about $125K to hire staff as they saw fit. That was it. No accountability and no goals. Completely disorganized but the state parties fucking loved the free money.
Competent state parties hired staff they were already going to hire. Incompetent state parties spent the money hiring local hacks. In the best case, they filled a role on a statewide campaign that was going to exist anyways. In the worst case, they were idiots that needed to be layered out of any actual responsibilities. 3-4 staffers in a statewide campaign is a drop in the bucket and generally they weren’t even devoted to any campaign work. The notion that the 50SS was responsbility for the gains in 2006 and 2008 is utterly laughable. That’s why you only hear about it from people with little to no campaign experience.
Candidate recruitment? That’s the DCCC and DSCC’s job, not the DNC’s. Credit Rahm Emmanuel for that if you like.
On the positive side, Dean got the fundraising operation revamped post-McCain/Feingold and undertook a number of infrastructure improvements; neither of those has changed under Obama.
Bobby Thomson
@lol: The 50SS had absolute dick-all to do with Dem gains in 2006 and 2008
Bull fucking shit.
ranchandsyrup
@BGinCHI: Liz Cheney sez that complete opposition to anything Obama or D’s propose isn’t obstructionist, it is “patriotic”. That word doesn’t mean anything any more.
gene108
The 50 state strategy, if nothing else, was some sort of improvement / moral booster over the “OMG! Permanent Republican Majority” feeling that really set in after both Bush, Jr.’s controversial assumption of the Presidency*, in 2000 and the Republicans making gains in Congress in 2002.
It may not have been the transformative policy it could’ve been, but at least it got out the message that Democrats aren’t rolling over to the “Permanent Republican Majority”.
It made me feel better about the fact Democrats could try and compete everywhere, even though the reality on the ground may have been different.
As far as 2006 and 2008 go, those elections hinged on the fact that you cannot fool all the people all of the time. At some point people realized they were lied to about Iraq, Iraq was a clusterfuck, we dropped the ball in Afghanistan and by 2008 the economy was falling off a cliff and Republicans didn’t have a clue about what to do.
There are a lot of people, who voted for Bush & Co. in 2000 and 2004, who voted for Democrats in 2006 because they realized how crappy Bush, Jr.’s Administration was. The real issue is to keep these voters enthused about Democrats, which I do not see happening.
* I do wonder if the voting purges and other voter problems that helped Bush, Jr. in FL in 2000 emboldened Republicans to find other ways to tamp down the voter access in the subsequent years. There really wasn’t much of a national backlash and Congress’ response was pretty tepid. On the flip, from what I see the Left in this country is really beginning to organize itself because of voting restrictions that Republicans foisted on the electorate in 2000 and 2004. At some point, I hope this drive to get people to vote will be the “silent majority” that takes this country back from the wingnuts, because the MSM really isn’t reporting on the efforts people have done to make sure their vote will be counted.
Quarks
Go cat posts!
Liz Cheney is virtually the walking definition of “Beltway Insider” at this point, unless attending the University of Chicago counts as outside experience. How exactly is she planning on working that narrative into the current “We hate DC” Tea Party concept? Or is she hoping Wyoming has a lot of pro-DC Republicans?
Mandalay
@gogol’s wife:
Are you serious? She’s possibly likable enough to the 27%, but she has the warmth and personality of a wet paper towel. Her entire persona is built on vilifying Obama for tying his shoes, and spewing false patriotism. Plus she likes gays, doesn’t use her married name, oozes Washington insider, and loves invasions.
I can’t see her ever being a contender for the Republican nomination, let alone the White House.
bill d
Let’s see how much time she spends in WY before the filing date arrives. My hunch is that Enzi will be in WY more than Liz even though he has a out of town job.
Susan
LOL; you ask a number of questions that merit response. I think the best person to answer some of them is Howard Dean himself. Here is what he had to say in May of 2013. The article from which these statements are taken, Looking Back at Howard Dean’s 50-State Strategy, offers a comprehensive and factual overview of his 50 state strategy: where it succeeded and where it failed.
Here is Dean in May 2013,
“Dean said he continues to believe that every state, no matter how unfriendly to his party, deserves to have a basic level of institutional, financial, technological and personnel support, which can be “relatively inexpensive.”
“It would be a terrible mistake to leave even one state out of a basic package of training, IT and staffing,” he said. “I don’t advocate putting a zillion dollars into Alaska, but I do advocate having a competent, well-run Democratic Party in place, because you never know where lightning is going to strike.”
Here is the link to the entire piece: Looking Back at Howard Dean’s 50-State Strategy
http://www.governing.com/blogs/politics/gov-democrat-howard-deans-fifty-state-strategy.html
Cassidy
@Roger Moore: Not when you’re a warmonger.
Paul in KY
@Mandalay: Because you don’t want complete, amoral, sociopaths in the US Senate, if you can help it.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@mistermix: @Susan:
Thank you. Thank you to everyone else who replied. I tend to see things through the lens of my own prejudice so I couldn’t understand why we weren’t trying harder to pick up the Senate seat in Wyoming in ’14.
Paul in KY
@Mandalay: She might be in on a coup & end up as ‘President for Life’ if this universe I have found myself in gets any weirder.
However, I can’t see her legitimately getting elected POTUS.
As I said up above, creatures like her you don’t want anywhere where they can obtain real power & manuver for more.
Mandalay
Not sure what to make of this:
It looks like Liz doesn’t want to “Keep America Safe” any more.
Yatsuno
@Mandalay: You’re joking right? There is no evidence Liz would be a vote for any pro-gay rights legislation regardless of her sister. Not to mention her other positions are atrocious. Better to leave her talking on the bobblehead shows than give her any real shot at power.
KG
@Paul in KY: that’s a pretty big “if”… I mean, if we kicked all the amoral sociopaths out of the Senate, there’d be what, 30 or 35 left?
Mandalay
@Paul in KY:
Well she’d hardly be the first, but you certainly have a point.
For all his many failings, what bothered me most about Romney were his foreign policy talking points, and his deranged view of inherent American superiority. Liz Cheney seems little different to Romney (and her father) in that regard.
Belafon
My thought is that we need to consider 2014 and 2016 as a war of attrition. The Republicans have decided that taking out possible edge forces (potential minority voters) is how they are going to win. We need to make sure places we are winning are not affected to harshly, then concentrate on a few places that we can either win, or make Republicans pay for having to defend. That’s why Texas would be such a good target over the next three years. Pour enough money and resources, especially human resource, here and Republicans will have to defend the state. The national groups, and progressive groups, should concentrate on voter registration and education.
Then we expand this over the next elections. I’s more of a 25 + 2 + 3 + 6 + 4 + … plan, but I think it would be more effective than all at once.
Yeah, I supported the ACA because it was a good first step, since you asked.
burnspbesq
Oopsie. The retired former CIA station chief who was tried and convicted in absentia in Italy in the kidnapping of Abu Omar made the mistake of showing his face in a country that has an extradition treaty with Italy (Panama). He’s being detained.
http://my.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20130718/32d2f08b-2451-4cc4-ac4a-05d6b246f646
Mandalay
@Yatsuno:
No, not joking at all. I understand the urge to assume the worst of her, but at this stage there’s no evidence that she would support or oppose any hypothetical pro-gay rights legislation.
I am sure that the issue will be raised a gazillion times during her campaign by Enzi and the media, so let’s see what she has to say.
Redshirt
@Belafon: I think of it as 2014 is a hold year – we just need to hold the line. 2016 could be a big, huge year, a monumental, history changing year – a ton of Repuke Senators are up for re-election in a Presidential year, and Hillary will get the people out to vote, and we could once again have an all Dem Government, and really get to work.
piratedan
sorry I don’t agree with “just writing those elections off”. We’re supporting a national party that has the interests of the American people (allegedly) at heart, run somebody everywhere. You never know when you’re going to catch Lightning in a Bottle or watch one of these family values guys get caught with their pants down around their ankles. Gotta give hope to folks that their voices will be heard and a reason to vote in every election. We wonder why state leges have been falling, it’s this “writing off” crap since folks keep adopting this “it’s too hard we won’t even try” attitude.
catclub
@burnspbesq: oopsie indeed.
Doesn’t anybody know how to play this game?
Mandalay
@burnspbesq:
Excellent news!
We can now look forward to the Administration pressing for the extradition of Snowden as it opposes the extradition of its convicted CIA chief.
Mandalay
@catclub:
Yes, the Italian justice system.
Belafon
@Redshirt: I think we have to use 2014, though, as the beginning of building for a massive 2016. Lay some infrastructure. I think it will be cheaper since it’s a non-presidential race. Plus, since I live in Texas, anything we can do to influence the House or the governor would be awesome.
FlipYrWhig
A successful 50 State Strategy would result in an influx of conservative Democrats. Most of the people who like to tout the many benefits of the 50 State Strategy hate those. I think party-building in uncompetitive areas makes sense, but it also shifts the ideological median Democrat rightwards, which has effects we decry. Remember how Dean famously said he wanted the Democrats to be the party of the guy with a rebel flag decal on his pickup truck. That means a Democratic Party that stands for something other than what it stands for now. That’s a tradeoff worth considering.
Paul in KY
@KG: That’s why I threw the ‘if’ in there. Good catch!
Villago Delenda Est
@burnspbesq:
Now all we have to do is arrange for Dick Cheney to stumble into somewhere in Europe to be detained for his various crimes.
scav
@burnspbesq: heh heh heh bene molto bene
Redshirt
@Belafon: Oh, I’m not saying everyone shouldn’t work their ass off in 2014 and try to win every election they can, but realistically, the outlook is not great, and I think if we simply maintain control of the Senate it will be a win – holding the line. 2016 is the year to make big gains, but that doesn’t mean anyone should give up on 2014.
jim filyaw
not that it matters a tinkers damn–both of them are dopes (although mendacity and viciousness seem imbedded in cheney dna), but seriously, one of the common gripes about congress is the partisan bickering and inability to work together, and this harridan proudly proclaims that any willingness to consider a democrat as anything more than sub-human is an automatic dis-qualifier for office.
burnspbesq
@FlipYrWhig:
I’ve considered it, and my considered view is that the worst Democrat is likely to be a lot better than the best Republican.
I’m not accusing you of being a purity troll, but my considered view is that purity trolls should all be loaded on the biggest rocket we have and shot into deep space.
burnspbesq
@Mandalay:
I have a very major beef with trying anyone in absentia. It’s fundamentally unfair.
If Italy wants to vacate the past conviction, which is bullshit, and allow this guy to mount a proper defense, then by all means they can have him.
Otherwise, fuck them and their “justice” system.
Villago Delenda Est
@jim filyaw:
She’s projecting, of course.
Villago Delenda Est
@burnspbesq:
Yes, and in the case of Trayvon Marin, it’s pointless, since Martin is already dead.
Redshirt
@burnspbesq: Did Italy really try, convict and send to jail scientists for failing to give warnings about an earthquake?
If so, now that’s some justice!
Susan
FlipYrWhig writes:
“Remember how Dean famously said he wanted the Democrats to be the party of the guy with a rebel flag decal on his pickup truck. That means a Democratic Party that stands for something other than what it stands for now. That’s a tradeoff worth considering.”
The thrust of Dean’s argument, which garnered a lot of approval, is this: working-class white Southerners would benefit from Democratic programs like progressive taxation, universal health care, strong public education, etc.
To suggest that the comment implied anything else, I think, is perhaps, a misunderstanding of the point Dean was trying to make.
mdblanche
@Suffern ACE: The people of Wyoming will like what Liz Cheney tells them to like.
Phil Perspective
@Susan: They obviously are. And the commenter “lol” sounds like a Rahm Emanuel fan boy. Also, you have to start somewhere. Even if you do get beat 68-32, it better then not fielding a candidate at all. Hopefully you’re giving people an idea on what a Democrat would do.
Mandalay
@burnspbesq:
Oh please. You might have an argument for the Russian approach, where they try and convict dead people. But in this case the CIA official had every opportunity to face the charges in Italy, but he fled.
You’re essentially arguing that if someone is charged but flees they should never be convicted, which is complete nonsense.
No, fuck him. If he chooses to kidnap someone on the street of a foreign country, and then send them another country to be tortured, and gets caught doing it, then fuck him. I hope he rots in an Italian jail.
FlipYrWhig
@Susan: @burnspbesq: A party shaped by a 50 State Strategy would have, and did have, a whole lot of “Blue Dogs” in it. A 50 state party would have elected officials from places like Utah and Tennessee and White Suburbia generally, who would thus influence the course of the party, its votes on important issues, and so forth. Like Burns, that doesn’t especially bother me, because Republicans are so terrible that I’d happily take a Heath Shuler or a Joe Manchin over the Republican that would replace him. But a party that had a foothold in all 50 states would pretty much by definition be a _less liberal_ party than the one that currently exists. The now-neglected states aren’t going to suddenly produce liberal standard-bearers. By squeezing out conservative Republicans, the overall ideology of Congress as a whole would be more liberal, which would be to the good.
scav
huh. Burnsie is usually all about the Shut Up, that’s How The Law Works, Thou Shalt Not Question the Workings of The Law, small creatures that do not understand its inerrant majesty — and the same for that other Italian hierarchy and its edicts.
FlipYrWhig
@Susan: Or, to be simpler about it, the Democrat elected with the votes of the guy with the rebel flag sticker may not be all that keen on fixing the Voting Rights Act.
Stephanie Herseth was the heartthrob of Daily Kos around 2004. That’s the kind of politician who benefits from the 50 State Strategy. The kind that rapidly becomes a thorn in the side of the liberal blogosphere for straying from liberal tenets. Personally, I’ll take that trade. But if I do, I can’t also kvetch very loudly about Democrats betraying what they ought to stand for, I think.
Mandalay
@burnspbesq:
No. He fled. He was even offered a plea deal by the Italians if he would provide details of the operation, but he turned them down, and left Italy to avoid his trial. Now he is caught he can serve his time.
This is the crybaby scumbag we are talking about…
Live by the sword, die by the sword.
lol
@Phil Perspective:
The point that the Dean fanboys keep missing is that OFA 2.0 is an improvement over the 50SS in every single respect. OFA 2.0 puts more people in each state than 50SS ever did except they’re for specific roles and they’re accountable to the DNC, not idiot party chairs.
@Bobby Thomson:
I’m going to say it was the $3.5 million Carper spent to get re-elected that year with no opposition that destroyed Republicans down ballot.
I have more direct hands-on experience with the 50 state strategy in more states than any of the people defending it here. The 50SS money was either spent on good people the party would’ve hired anyways (your Delaware case being a good example) or on incompetent hacks that were an impediment to campaigns. But I’m sure you’ve read a few blogs how about awesome it was so it’s totes the same thing.
Quick test: Who do you think had more to do with Obama’s win in Florida: Two or three people hired by a notoriously dysfunctional state party…. or the 300+ field organizers his campaign put on the ground?
People who pretend it was responsible fore 2006 & 2008 only demonstrate how little knowledge they have about campaigns.