We’re thinking of seeing The Lone Ranger this weekend, because Spousal Unit is one of those fifties kids with fond memories of the TV series. And yeah the critics hatehatehatehate it, but it seems for the same reasons they hated John Carter, which was (a) a lot more fun than I expected, and (b) worth seeing on the wide screen. (Moviefone gives TLR 79% from viewers, 38% from critics.)
Gilbert Cruz at NYMagsays “The Lone Ranger Represents Everything That’s Wrong With Hollywood Blockbusters“:
George Lucas and Steven Spielberg recently took part in a symposium in which they predicted an imminent “implosion” in the system as a result of the industry’s current obsession with blockbuster movies. Curious about whether or not this was simply exaggeration, Vulture’s David Edelstein got in contact with producer Lynda Obst, author of a new book titled Sleepless in Hollywood: Tales From the New Abnormal in the Movie Business. During their conversation, she grimly agreed with the two moguls, predicting, “If, say, four huge tentpole [movies] were to go down at the same time in the same season, it would be catastrophic.”
The Lone Ranger — a.k.a. Pirates of the Caribbean 4.5: Sparrow Goes West — is looking like it might be a huge tentpole movie (it reportedly cost $215-250 million) that goes down this weekend. It also happens to be a perfect example of almost everything that’s wrong with the current Hollywood blockbuster system. In addition to being massively expensive, The Lone Ranger also demonstrates the industry’s franchise obsession, origin story laziness, over-reliance on bloodless violence, and its inability to prevent running time bloat. These are not small problems, and there is no sign that they will be riding off into the sunset anytime soon…
Anybody got an opinion to offer here? What movies are you looking forward to, this weekend or going forward this summer?
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
I’m looking forward to a meal. None of the restaurants I’ve found close to my hotel have any English printed on the menus and I’m having trouble figuring out what anything is by the pictures. So I have no idea how to order food. The only thing I’ve had to eat in the 18 hours since I landed in Xi’an was a donut from a coffee shop. That cost me about $3.
And I have a drinking problem. Unless someone can take me somewhere I can buy bottled water cheaper than at the hotel I’ll be going through about 20 yuan ($4-$5) of that a day.
lojasmo
Lucas and Spielberg opining about how blockbusters are bad for the system.
Rich.
ETA: Food at the hospital was so shitty, I skipped lunch.
24 hour unintentional fast.
dnfree
The review that talked about cutting out someone’s heart and eating it convinced me I won’t be seeing it. I wonder how many parents will take their young kids to this movie and be unprepared for that level of violence (bloodless or not)?
The reviews I saw talked about “Who is this movie for?” Too violent/gory for young kids, but it got a PG-13.
Plus the idea of Johnny Depp as Tonto just turns me off.
raven
I recorded the Truffaut films last night and I also just got a Blu Ray of the Sandpebbles. I know the latter by heart but my bride has never seen it. Decisions.
dexwood
See it for the New Mexico landscape.
The Red Pen
Fuck the critics. All the critics — including the ones I usually swear by — hatedhatedhated After Earth in large part due to some supposed Scientology subtext. I thought it was a fun adventure story about a boy with a freakishly detached father.
Meanwhile, some other friend laughed their asses of at The Heat, which my favorite critics basically labelled a crime against cinema.
It’s summer. Get baked and go see The Lone Ranger.
YellowJournalism
The boys will be heading to my parents’ house for a few weeks, so Hubby and I will get to see movies rated above PG. He wants to see “The Lone Ranger,” and we probably will, even though I cringe each time I see a commercial or trailer for it. Must also pair that one up with the night we go drinking.
But, really, nothing much appeals to me this summer outside the kids’ movies like “Monsters University,” although “This is the End” sounds good to me. Everything I wanted to see this summer will be out of theatres by the time we are able to go.
pharniel
I haven’t see it but Howard Tailor of Schlock Mercenary pretty much hated it – I’m not sure exactly why but that’s a pretty big litmus test to fail for me.
quannlace
If you’re staying in, ‘Schindler’s List’ is on the Sundance channel tonight, 8 pm EST
maya
The 50s crowd? Any day now the long awaited blockbuster remix, Gidget Goes Galt.
Diana
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): gotta ask, have you got an iphone? Because if you download Waygo translate, you just center the chinese in the box and it gives you a translation; if it’s dark it will prompt you to use the light on your phone, complete with a little lightning bolt for you to press to trigger it … of course, not all the translations are perfectly useful. “Three mountains” doesn’t tell you much about the actual food if you don’t know what dish it refers to.
That said, Xi’an is full of street food; I distinctly remember a wonderful dish of wok-fried potato cubes that was about 6 yuan. Just point and hold out money. And what about the Muslim quarter? The entire place is a food bazaar. Take the subway to the belltower center of town (where if you want to you you can buy an iphone at the Apple store).
anyhow, back to movies. The Avengers was a masterpiece that created a fanbase who, Star Wars style, will see every subsequent film no matter how lousy. This is the secret to tentpole Hollywood: get ’em addicted to the characters and it doesn’t matter how bad the movies may be. So we are going to be stuck with CGI battles for quite some time.
dnfree
“But here’s why The Lone Ranger is one of the oddest movies I’ve ever seen: I’ve never seen a movie bounce back and forth so quickly and so often between horrifying violence and campy, unironic humor. The Lone Ranger is without question more violent than a “serious” movie like the Coen Brothers’ True Grit. In one scene, a character is getting his heart cut out and eaten; the next, Depp’s Tonto is hamming it up with a horse. In one scene, cannibalistic flesh-eating rabbits (?!) devour one of their own; in the next, the aforementioned horse has just climbed a tree. Then, out of nowhere, Helena Bonham Carter starts shooting people with a gun that also happens to be her leg.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-ryan/the-lone-ranger-review_b_3530610.html
Supernumerary Charioteer
I’m going in for Pacific Rim next week despite all of my possible misgivings, because I love giant-things-blowing-each-other-up movies, I love Guillermo del Toro, and I’m kind of afraid this is going to end up being the Scott Pilgrim of 2013.
geg6
Saw part of “The Kids Are All Right” today. So far, I have mixed feelings.
Bob Travels
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
Get out of your hotel. Walk away from the upscale hotel district. (A block or two in the right direction usually is enough.)
Look around for a restaurant with a lot of locals inside. Take a look at what they are eating and when you see something that looks good wave the waitperson over and point at it and then at yourself. While wearing a big smile.
Got me by in China 30 years ago and all around the world since then.
Watch for a local grocery store while you’re out. You’ll find water at a local price.
ArchTeryx
You want a good alternative? Despite the really unfortunate title, Despicable Me 2 was an absolute laugh riot. I nearly laughed myself sick when the Minions all started singing Another Irish Drinking Song in their own brand of gibberish, and generally, it was a brilliant spoof of the James Bond franchise.
Then again, I’m big into physical comedy, which this movie basically ran on. YMMV, as usual – if slapstick ain’t your game, it’s a movie best avoided.
indycat32
Saw it on the 4th. It seemed TPTB couldn’t decide if they wanted to make a funny movie, a violent movie, or a movie with a social conscience. And thanks to Lucas and Spielberg, as I was looking at the amazing landscape, I wondered if it was real or CGI.
raven
@geg6: Weak ass flick.
Spaghetti Lee
You make a good case, AL, but I’m saving my money for Pacific Rim, RIPD, and Elysium. They all look pretty promising. Pacific Rim’s visuals just look stunning, even in this era when every summer movie has stunning visuals as its selling point. And the whole ‘afterlife detective’ thing gets done a lot in smaller media like webcomics, anime, and so forth, so I wonder how RIPD will play on the big screen. The last movie I can recall with that basic plot was Constantine, which IIRC everyone hated. Elysium should be one of those movies that gets right-wing culture cops sputtering-it’s about poor rebels trying to hijack a floating space paradise owned by the rich and powerful. And it looks like a good action movie too.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Diana:
No, and I won’t be buying one. The point of this trip is to make money, not spend it. And any suggestion that involves wandering around the city when I have no idea where I am and have no way to ask for directions if I get lost is right out. At the moment, it MUST be within sight of my hotel and doable without technological translation.
Johnny Coelacanth
I saw a preview of The Lone Ranger and I really enjoyed it. It’s a lot of fun and it doesn’t take itself seriously. Depp is reliably good and Hammer reveals more the of the comedic actor at which his role in The Social Network hinted. Like every other movie I’ve seen this summer season, it is too long (third reel bloat has turned endemic) but if you catch it at a matinee or budget-ticket price, you probably won’t regret it (esp. if you’re a fan of the Bruckheimer/Verbinski Pirates movies).
Mike in NC
Worst movie we saw in the theater this year was “Identity Thief”. The actors gave it their best shot but the script and direction were terrible. “World War Z” was OK even if it had next to nothing to do with a very good novel. “Kick Ass 2” ought to be fun based on the preview I caught.
“The Lone Ranger” has a 24% favorable rating at Rotten Tomatoes and is sinking fast. Trailer looked terrible and the reviews are abysmal. Everyone seems to think it’s an hour too long. Would never pay more than a buck to rent a Johnny Depp crapfest.
bnut
Pacific Rim. Giant mechs fighting monsters. Plus Del Toro. In one preview a mech is swinging an oil tanker as a bat. Gonna be awesome.
Johnny Coelacanth
@Mike in NC: “And is sinking fast.” Not really. It was @ 19% on Tuesday so it has actually come up since the early press screenings. I’m more inclined to agree with Moviefone’s viewers on this one.
Stella
I saw this movie on the third. As a mixed blood Native/Euro American I was curious about its treatment of Native Americans which I would call mixed. Tonto is a caricature, but then he is based on a character from a TV series made in a time When Native people were almost never treated respectfully and I suspect that Johnny Depp is hamming it up as that character. The difference between his character/caricature and the speech, mannerisms and treatment of the real Natives in the movie is very obvious and the Native story is told with a good deal of respect. I actually cried a little when the Native elder talked about his people already being ghosts. For a movie based on an old tv show it is actually pretty funny and cute. The heart eating scene is not in any way graphic and I doubt that most little kids would recognize that that is what is really happening. As far as Johnny Depp not being Native enough to play a caricature from an old tv show I just have to wonder if the original actor was Native or Italian. The old tv show was made in a time when ‘indians’ on tv and in films were almost never played by real Native Americans. Heck, I remember seeing an old Tarzan movie where the African people were not black and looked like Native Americans or Mexicans. It is possible that Tonto was played this way to camp it up and make fun of the way that minorities were portrayed in old films and tv shows. The overall story of Tonto was actually pretty touching and bittersweet. Overall I actually enjoyed the movie because I did not have any real expectations for it. I hope that this helps.
Jeffro
We’ve had a record year for actual movie theater viewing already here at the Jeffro household
– EPIC
– STAR TREK 2
– DESPICABLE ME 2
– MONSTERS UNIVERSITY
– IRON MAN 3
– MAN OF STEEL
and something else, it seems like…
All 6 had some serious plot problems (IM3 being the least of these…the very end made no sense). Notice all are serious animation/CGI wonders and 5 of 6 are sequels. These two facts are probably not unrelated.
My kids would rather have watched THE SANDLOT (1 or 2) for the millionth time. Lesson learned!
raven
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): Well damn, it was just a suggestion. Take a deep breath.
jeffreyw
I’m wanting to see Elysium but I’ll wait for HBO.
Villago Delenda Est
Some Christianist shitstains are all upset that Tonto is too “pagan” in the movie.
Well, duh.
Villago Delenda Est
Some Christianist shitstains are all upset that Tonto is too “pagan” in the movie.
Well, duh.
Villago Delenda Est
Oh, and FYWP for duplicating my post.
Mr Stagger Lee
It seems that Christian conservatives are butt-hurt over the fact the villains are Christian businessmen.Wonkette has the story
Frankly I find it cheaper to wait for Netflix, movie tickets are just too much even the early morning discount is getting up there to waste on CGI projects without a story. The last movie I saw at the theater,was Lincoln.
Frankensteinbeck
I loved John Carter. I have no idea why the critics would pan it.
@Supernumerary Charioteer:
I’m eager for Pacific Rim. I’m expecting it to be like Hellboy. Del Toro likes to take bad movie concepts and have FUN with them, and the results are not only a hoot, but better written than they have any right to be.
@ArchTeryx:
I’m a big an animation buff, and god, it was fantastic. And yes, part of that was the humor. It was FUNNY.
Spaghetti Lee
@Stella:
Tonto actually has been historically played by Native American actors. Look up Chief Thundercloud and Jay Silverheels.
j
John Carter opened strong on March 9, 2012; but two weeks later The Hunger Games was released, stealing “Carter’s” mojo.
http://www.movieinsider.com/movies/-/2012/
different-church-lady
All I know is every time I think to myself, “No way in hell I want to see that movie” it’s usually because the CGI looks incredibly fake even on my TV screen.
karl
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): May I recommend going out for Chinese food?
Try the closest restaurant and point to something someone else is eating (discreetly).
raven
@Stella: Jay Silverheels was Canadian Mowhawk. He was also in Key Largo.
elmo
Since I discovered the Cobb 12 in Leesburg – seats that move with the action, and a FULL BAR – I’m constantly looking for reasons to go to the theater. It’s almost a hundred bucks for the two of us with the special seats, and getting baked ahead of time, but I don’t care.
Now if only there were any good movies…
GregB
World War Z was a C film at best. Very high end production values, great locations but there was very little character development and the whole zombie genre has the shark jump feel to it these days.
This is the End was a C+ at best, had some very funny moments and even though it was supposed to be Hollywood naval-gazy, it had a little too much inside humor.
I may end up going to see Despicable Me 2. I love Steve Carell.
Mornington Crescent
I got “I Wake Up Screaming” in the mail from Netflix today, so that’s what it is. 1941, Victor Mature, Betty Grable.
PeakVT
If, say, four huge tentpole [movies] were to go down at the same time in the same season, it would be catastrophic.”
Maybe so, but given the current pressures on the industry, what would replace the blockbuster addiction? Right now, if people want great small-scale drama (meaning without massive explosions) there’s plenty of teevee that can satisfy their needs. Or do it even better than a two-hour flick could.
Spaghetti Lee
What I’ve heard about the Lone Ranger is not just that it’s violent, but it’s incredibly grim, the characters are vicious and cynical, idealism is played as a joke, and so forth. That’s one trend I wouldn’t mind dying out, given that it’s been applied to Superman and Mr. Spock so far this year, and Batman and James Bond the year before that. Yeah, yeah, it’s all good fun to talk about the darkness in everyone’s heart and question whether our heroes are really heroes and look at what happens when the hero is desperate and broken and all that, but it’s getting old.
I enjoy a lot of these movies because they’re well-made and visually interesting and, hey, they’re just movies, but it’s kind of weird when you look at how nightmarish and apocalyptic, not to mention cynical, a lot of big ‘summer movies’ are. I wouldn’t mind a bit of a brighter pallet, myself.
different-church-lady
@karl: That’s coming uncomfortably close to the urban legend about the dog.
j
@maya:
HAHAHA! (In certain areas, and certain circles, that is.)
I don’t want to piss off my “betters”.
trollhattan
@ArchTeryx:
The kidz simply love Despicable Me 2, enough that this old wants to see it given I got a kick out of the first. What the heck is that accent, anyway?
Spaghetti Lee
@PeakVT:
I’m of the likely too-optimistic opinion that if Hollywood scaled back the explosions and the razzle-dazzle and $200 million CGI budgets and re-learned how to focus on story and character instead, they’d still find a lot of people waiting for them. A lot of movies that everyone loves (‘cult classics’) if you will, are that way because of memorable characters or dialogue, not effects. Are there going to be any characters from this decade that people will remember 30 years from now the way that people still remember the characters from Star Wars and Indiana Jones and Back to the Future and so forth? I mean, it’s possible to make blockbusters that have memorable characters. We were doing it 20-30 years ago. I guess that stuff just doesn’t tickle the overseas markets. Maybe once China and Korea and Russia and whoever else have their own large-scale domestic movie industries, things will change because Hollywood won’t be able to lean on them so much.
Yatsuno
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): This might help. Plus it has the characters on the right for reverse translation.
@Spaghetti Lee:
Not sure about Russia, but China and Korea do. They still import American films like they’re going out of style.
KmCO
I’m not a big fan of Hollywood movies, and summer blockbusters in particular are typically boring wastes of money to me. The last movie that I really enjoyed that happened to be a summer release was “Bridesmaids.”
Steeplejack
@Anne Laurie:
I recommend not seeing The Lone Ranger. My spidey sense is tingling more than usual on this one—I admit I am no fan of Hollywooden blockbusters—and I think it has no chance of being remotely in the neighborhood of John Carter. I recommend Despicable Me 2 instead.
Johnny Coelacanth
@Spaghetti Lee: “nightmarish and apocalyptic, not to mention cynical”
You’re soaking in it. Also too, the Ranger’s idealism is played for a joke, a few times, but he never gives it up and never ceases to be idealistic or pursue justice within the law. I didn’t get “grim” out of it and yeah, the bad guys are vicious and cynical. There are some quite violent scenes; the PG-13 rating fits.
gnomedad
Haven’t seen it; enjoyed this takedown:
Craig
@j: $30 million for a $200 million feature is not strong. That’s less than one fifth of what it cost to make – less than one tenth when the marketing budget is factored in. And given that blockbusters not helmed by James Cameron drop by only 50% in their second week if they’re lucky…
(John Carter actually dropped by 55%. And yes, it was a terrible movie.)
Just Some Fuckhead
The only thing keeping Johnny Depp from being the worst actor on earth is the continued existence of Kevin Costner.
HinTN
Bob Mondelo said not to expect Pirates of the Caribbean in the panhandle but to enjoy the movie, so that’s what we plan to do tomorrow.
Spaghetti Lee
@Johnny Coelacanth:
“nightmarish and apocalyptic, not to mention cynical” You’re soaking in it.
You mean the movies are like that because they’re a reflection of real life? Well sure. All I’m saying is I wouldn’t mind an alternative. If I want a haunting vision of a societal collapse, I don’t need to buy a movie ticket, I can just look at the rate of deforestation, price of fossil fuels, and so forth and extrapolate.
ArchTeryx
@trollhattan: That accent is wholly Steve Carrel’s own. It was originally supposed to be Russian (“Gru” is a pun on the GRU Russian intelligence agency) but it quickly wandered off, turned purple, and acquired a life of its own.
And the first has NOTHING on the second when it comes to sheer comedy factor. There’s plenty of stuff for the Olds as well – in addition to Another Irish Drinking Song, the Minions give their renditions of I Swear and the Village People’sYMCA as well, each funnier then the last.
HinTN
@Just Some Fuckhead: Sorry, but your perception does not comport with mine. So be it. Edward Scissor Hands was genius.
HinTN
@Steeplejack: Son-in-law and granddaughter loved DM2
SiubhanDuinne
Holy fuck, it’s like a young hurricane out there! Rain coming down in sheets. And pitch black sky, although it’s nearly an hour before sunset. Yowza.
ArchTeryx
@Just Some Fuckhead: Oh, come on. The guy’s good when he’s on – he hit Jack Sparrow perfect and on the right notes. What he is not is Daniel Day Lewis – he just doesn’t have the breadth to be a jack-of-all-trades character actor. But he keeps trying.
The Other Chuck
I know this sounds suspiciously like the same sort of spite the right wing operates on, but that sounds like a plus to me.
Actually no, I’m kidding. A movie can suck independently of whether the wingnuts hate it, but damn I’m having a hard time thinking of any movie these guys do like that could ever be any good.
CaseyL
I saw a Pacific Rim trailer, and my first thought was that it’s basically Transformers versus Dinosaurs. No, thanks. I like del Toro, but… ugh. Then again, I am in no way the target demo for that genre.
Now, the Lone Ranger being a dog does make me sad. I love the Lone Ranger story, and Depp, and was looking forward to seeing it. Critics can be wrong, but it’s rare that they’re *all* wrong.
trollhattan
@ArchTeryx:
I’m up for the experience.
Speaking of odd musical pairings, was in a (California) Home Depot last weekend and “I Will Survive” came on, yet nobody gay-married in the lumber aisle. (And don’t anybody tell me I should have run over to plumbing.) Weirdest hardware store music evah,
Kathleen
@raven: Speaking of which, Key Largo is on TCM (started at 8PM Eastern)
Marcus
@Supernumerary Charioteer: Neil Gaiman and his class went to see a preview of the movie, and tweeted that it was a good robots vs monsters flick.
Spaghetti Lee
I wonder how much of the hate is Depp backlash. He actually got an Oscar nomination for his first time out as Jack Sparrow, and it seems like he tried to replicate that with Willy Wonka, Sweeney Todd, the Mad Hatter, the Dark Shadows guy, and now this. Maybe he just needs to take a break?
Mr Stagger Lee
@trollhattan: Unicorns I love them I think the accent is called “Hollywood” Russian. @Spaghetti Lee: The Koreans make some good movies, some of their thrillers ought to be remade by the studios. The Chinese sometimes do make good epic films, I suspect when the world does tire of the American retreads, perhaps the studios will get the message, perhaps start by forcing the idiots in a room and forced to watch TCM 24/7 for a week.
And kick out the Griffin Mills’ (The Player) types, and perhaps Hollywood can come back, but who am I kidding?
Cacti
World War Z was okay as far as summer fare goes. Conceptually, it didn’t seem a whole lot different from 28 Days Later, which I thought was the superior film of the two. Matinee material.
debbie
@raven:
I remember liking Sand Pebbles very much, but then, the movie had Steve McQueen…
trollhattan
@Spaghetti Lee:
Nailed it. He’s among his generation’s best and most risk-taking actors, and by now has more money in the bank than he can conceivably spend, so why not be super-choosy about picking roles now?
? Martin
@Frankensteinbeck:
I’m not sure. I love disaster movies and Godzilla in all forms and all that. But it’s really easy to try and go too big and just fuck it all up. This feels too big to me. But we’ll see. Some of the dialogue from the trailer is just horrible. Looks too big budget to be adequately campy to work, to me.
JPL
@SiubhanDuinne: Same here! It has been like that on and off all afternoon, although the latest was accompanied with thunder and lightening. The pups are not happy.
Steeplejack
@Spaghetti Lee:
Or maybe he should be legally enjoined from working with Tim Burton for three to five years.
natthedem
Don’t go see Lone Ranger.
Adam Serwer described it, succinctly, as “an Indian minstrel show.”
Adrienne K. has a great series of posts on the problematic (read: racist) imagery at her blog, Native Appropriations.
Somethings we ought not be nostalgic about…
Cacti
As far as stink bomb of the summer goes, After Earth wins that one hands down.
Will Smith’s Scientology missionary film, and forced attempt to make America accept his no talent son as a star, will probably clean up this year’s Razzies.
$130 million production cost + $100 million marketing campaign for a world wide box office of $189 million.
Yatsuno
@trollhattan: Some actors never grow out of their starving artist phase. I’m certain Depp isn’t taking every single offer that comes down the pike, but I’m certain a few of the roles he has taken are because he’s afraid of not working ever again. Plus Burton snaps his fingers and he jumps right on board.
PeakVT
@Spaghetti Lee: Maybe so. But right now the major studios seem to be caught in some kind of feedback loop. It probably won’t end until there’s a billion-dollar production flop.
Just One More Canuck
@efgoldman: I nearly soiled my armor, I was so scared
SiubhanDuinne
@JPL: Heh. And now, the rain has stopped, the skies are turning lighter, and if it’s like that in Roswell, the pups can stop shivering and come in out of the porcelain. Didn’t hear any thunder nor see any lightning; I expect they’re saving that for 3:00 a.m. when I am sound asleep.
ninedragonspot
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): In 2008, the Chinese government prepared an enormous .pdf of suggested English-language translations for typical Chinese dishes. I couldn’t find it just now, but there is this – you can find something you might like to eat, copy down the characters and maybe a restaurant can serve you that or something close. At any rate, it should help you decipher characters for meats and perhaps some vegetables.
Botsplainer
I noticed that the always creepy “Blame It on Rio” is currently available on Netflix.
Mike in NC
@debbie:
One of my favorites. They came out with a restored version on DVD a couple of years ago with much better color quality and some added scenes. That movie and “The Bedford Incident” were the all-time favorites on my ship back during active duty days.
I put on “The Sand Pebbles” one time for my wife and she was deeply bummed that it didn’t have a typical Hollywood happy ending. Another favorite Navy movie is “The Bridges at Toko-Ri” set during the Korean War. William Holden only agreed to be in it if they didn’t use a phoney happy ending. Apparently he had a brother who was KIA in World War Two and wanted to honor him.
NickT
I am thoroughly sick of the cliched, badly plotted, over-dependent on ponderous one liners Hollywood movies that seem to be on offer. There are better things to do with two hours than spend them in the company of the popcorn slobbering hordes and their repulsive friends, acquaintances and sugar-highed shrieking small children.
trollhattan
@efgoldman: @Yatsuno:
It’s a great insight. Lord knows Jim Carrey rode that goddamn Brinks truck for all it was worth (even if I demean Depp with the mere mention).
But as gawd is my witness, I will nevah come within a hundred miles of another gawddamn Jack Sparrow flick!
Keith
I don’t think too many big-budget movies will kill the market, but less of them will eventually get made as more of them flop. But I suspect the money will still be there; it’ll just get spent on video games (which also happen to flop a lot, too). But when you see a Halo or Call of Duty game make a quarter of a billion dollars in a week, it’s hard to ignore what happens when you throw money at quality. Grand Theft Auto V should prove this in spades; that’s a $100+ million dollar game that is going to bring in half a billion dollars, IMO, and it’s going to get the Rotten Tomatoes equivalent of 95% (so says my crystal ball). And people will spend 20x more time on a game like that than they would a movie.
Hungry Joe
A few weeks ago I finally saw “The Avengers,” and damned if I can remember much of anything about it except that Robert Downey Jr. was good, as always. Then, for reasons I have trouble recalling now, I saw “Man of Steel”; it inspired me to vow never to see another superhero/CGI movie ever, ever, again, in this lifetime or any that may, however unlikely, follow. These are, simply, bad movies. Every damn one of them. Better to rent “Ikiru” for the ninth time.
Or “The Sand Pebbles,” for that matter. Now, THERE’S a good movie.
Ron
@ArchTeryx: I enjoyed Despicable Me 2 despite the predictability. Our 7-year old absolutely LOVED it.
Botsplainer
I made the mistake of turning on Return of the Jedi on Spike out of a sense of nostalgia.
Goddamn, it’s bad, and it isn’t just the acting – it’s the script and the whole Star Wars universe.
Double nickel
The Lone Ranger is laughably stupid. Fuggetaboudit.
trollhattan
@Botsplainer:
So what you’re telling us is you’re ready to watch Episode 1.
Narcissus
Movies are way too long these days. This is probably because the tickets are too expensive.
Robert
This is the perfect week to rent Resolution on iTunes/Google Play/Vudu/YouTube. It’s a summery horror film about a man chaining his best friend to a pipe in a remote cabin to force him to detox from heavy drugs for a week. While there, strange books, photos, and videos start to predict what’s going to happen to the friends in the immediate future; 30 minutes in and it’s already not looking pretty. It’s a psychological film about time, space, alternate realities, and cults/aliens/gang warfare (?)/white privilege (?)/academia that quickly establishes its own universe of logic that you can easily buy into.
As for movies in theaters, The Bling Ring, Frances Ha, Much Ado About Nothing, This Is the End, and The East are all strong choices. The Bling Ring is a perfect takedown of reality TV/instant fame culture. Frances Ha is one of the most honest films ever made about artists trying to become professionals. Much Ado About Nothing is simultaneously driven by slapstick and a strong understanding of the deeper emotional content of the Shakespeare play. This Is the End succeeds at all of its conceits, especially as a spiritual sequel to Pineapple Express. The East is a psychological thriller that actually puts the psychology back in the genre. You can’t go wrong with one of those.
Steeplejack
Just saw a trailer for RIPD. Ugh. Looks like Men in Black with dead people instead of aliens.
I’m not saying it couldn’t be good, with Jeff Bridges and Ryan Reynolds, but the real problem with Hollywooden blockbusters is the total lack of any original ideas at all. Just give me one that doesn’t have the stink of “pitch meeting bingo” on it.
NickT
@Narcissus:
You get the same thing with fantasy and sci-fi series. The page count grows, the quality slips and by the end of the series you wish all the characters had died in a fire along with David Brooks and Andrew Sullivan.
On a related note, consider how many gratuitous and embarrassingly unconvincing sex and or torture scenes Game of Thrones inflicted on its audience – probably enough to pad the episode count by one every season.
RobertDSC-PowerMac G5 Dual
I haven’t gone to the movies but once in the past seven years. The movie I saw was Act Of Valor.
I content myself with what I have in my DVD collection converted to movie files on the backup Mac. Right now, I’m watching Eastern Promises. Naomi Watts and Viggo Mortensen do so well in this movie.
Botsplainer
@trollhattan:
Lucas was too goddamned determined to merchandise. He could’ve kept his universe basically humanoid.
Spaghetti Lee
@Keith:
But isn’t the video game industry now having its own moment of existential angst over big-budget mass-market Halos and CoDs vs. indie games, fights about DRM and DLC, fights about what’s best for the consumer, and so forth? Seems like a future just as unsure as Hollywood’s.
drylake
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): Any convenience store, of which there should be many, will have large two-liter bottles of water that cost 8-9 yuan and should last for a while even in hot and dry Xi’an. Make an effort,though, to find the bell tower on a tourist map and then walk north into the old city, primarily Moslem and magical at night.
EriktheRed
@The Other Chuck:
What, you don’t like those masterpieces that make up the Left Behind series, you commie heathen???
? Martin
@Spaghetti Lee: It is. Blizzard is just down the road from me and I know a lot of guys there, and they’re worried. They still figure they’ll be one of the survivors simply due to the strength of their brands, but they also realize that their 5 year development cycle for monster games won’t cut it any more. They don’t do nimble and they’re trying to figure out how to adapt. Churning out your 10 year old games on iPad will help for a little bit, but what happens when you run out of those?
Hill Dweller
@Spaghetti Lee:
First, getting on the Disney gravy train is never a good idea. His work pre-Pirates of the Caribbean was much better than what came after. Most of his post-Pirates work was done for Disney. If The Lone Ranger bombs, and loses a huge amount of money, perhaps it will give him an opportunity for a clean break.
Second, people seem to forget he wasn’t super-famous before the Pirate movies. He was widely respected, but never made any sort of blockbuster. Sleepy Hollow was the closest thing to a blockbuster. Most of his movies were indies. Consequently, he could enjoy some semblance of normalcy.
The Pirate movies made Depp the biggest star in the world, but turned his and his family’s world upside down. Granted, he chose to make the movie, but I don’t think he was prepared for the fishbowl. For whatever reason(s), Depp hasn’t been the same actor since becoming a mega-star.
Steeplejack
@NickT:
Re Game of Thrones, my brother has been catching up by binge-watching the first season, and he said you really notice the padding when you watch it that way.
KmCO
@NickT: You summed up in one brief comment why I rarely frequent cineplexes. Also, I’m child-free at the moment, so maybe I’m missing something blindingly obvious, but what is the insistence that so many parents of young children seem to have to bring their kids along to each and every movie? It seems to me that if one can afford a 10-ish dollar movie ticket and around 20 bucks on overpriced junk food fare, one could also afford a babysitter. /rant
j
@PeakVT: There ain’t shit on TV except scripted “reality” shows and some form of “Look at the Southerners, ain’t they a-funny?” crap.
The TV networks made a decision to kill the writers union, and the directors union, and just about every other union in “Hollywood” (electricians, set construction, Teamsters, etc.) and replaced the shows with game shows, reality shows, so called documentaries and just general low brow crap.
Remember how Regis “saved ABC” with that “Millionaire” game, and Howie Mandell had the LAZIEST “game show” ever devised called “pick a suitcase and bet on it”. These mouth breathers didn’t have to even answer a trivia question, all they had to do was go for their gut instinct of pure greed, because that’s what Jesus would want them to do.
Ain’t been anything good on TV since Philo Farnsworth broadcast an image of a dollar sign across the room in order to entice his investors.
It worked, full circle.
JWL
Right you are.
So be sure to take your family to see The Lone Ranger. On top of the admission price, indulge the kids with boxes of popcorn, ju-ju fruits, and soda.
As in the days of yesteryear…
And when the bank calls in your mortgage, appeal to its sense of Hurray for Hollywood.
? Martin
@efgoldman: My dad served on submarines, so I swear I’ve seen every movie involving subs. The enemy below is my favorite of them. Personally, my favorite genre are cold war films from the 60s. Seven Days in May, On the Beach, etc.
Keith
@Hill Dweller: What Johnny Depp looks like in his next role has been made into too much of an event. It’s almost to the point of parody now (or it did when his Mad Hatter pic came out). Seems like E! Magazine or whatever finds it necessary to build buzz for his next movie to show an “exclusive” pic of his next character such that it’s all about the makeup now (although I do give Depp major points for his 21 Jump Street cameo…that was priceless. “We got tattoos on our DICKS!”)
NickT
@KmCO:
I am vehemently opposed to the death penalty on principle – but when I contemplate the repulsive little monsters that some parents allow their children to become I find my resolve weakening.
TCG
@Craig: You also have to divide the gross in half because the movie theaters take half. So it actually only made $15 million.
I have read that a $200 million film has to make back $500 million world wide to break even when you include production and marketing costs. If it’s not a cartoon or a superhero movie, it’s rarely worth costs.
maye
Just saw Man of Steel, and not even the matchless good looks of Henry Cavill could pierce the tedium of this experience.
Steeplejack
@? Martin:
What, no love for Das Boot?
Spaghetti Lee
@? Martin:
This is one of the reasons why I’m not hip with the down-with-big-media, consumer-generated-content revolution. One, the collapse of the entertainment biz isn’t just aesthetic, it puts thousands of people out of work, two, you’re permanently damaging the idea that people should be able to make a living doing creative work that isn’t freelancing (it occurred to me, isn’t crowdsourcing just a way to get people to pay for the production of a movie/game/album and then pay for it when it’s released?) and three, I’ve yet to be convinced that the best of these small, independently-financed amateur projects are as good as what the pros can do.
MikeJ
Edroso’s latest is more about conservatives hating Monsters Inc (or finding it secretly conservative if they liked it) but has some bonus Lone Ranger action in.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN), I’ve often been in countries in where I didn’t speak a word of the language. Take a card from the hotel. Go in one direction down a street, not zigzagging. When you see a restaurant, go in, and see if you and the waitstaff can communicate through animal sounds. They can usually figure out a chicken impersonation, and you can eat what they bring you. It’s great fun and the locals like it too. Since you only went one way down a street,making your way back to the hotel should be no problem. Worst case, you’ve got the card with the name and address of the hotel. Accost someone on the street, show them the card, and look lost. I’ve done this scores of times and never had to sleep in a gutter.
Gex
So basically they’ve set the industry up like the housing bubble? They HAVE to flip for a profit on some/all of the blockbusters or the industry crashes?
Well, maybe people who are interested in story telling will fill in the void. Fine by me.
KmCO
@NickT: Or the repulsiveness of the parents themselves. Years ago I was at a cinemaplex screening of “The Ring.” You know, that truly disturbing horror movie that scared the bejeesus out of my then-18-year-old self. Well, some geniuses a few seats down had decided to bring their five-year-old son to the film. When the child was screaming and freaking out at various points in the movie (as, you know, everyone in the theater was), the parents would hiss at the kid to “shut up.” It took me a lot of resolve to not walk over and pour my jumbo fountain drink on those parents’ heads.
NickT
@MikeJ:
“Alright, Xiao Li, you take a virgin chicken to the gentleman’s room at the Zhongguo Diyi Hotel and I’ll see if we can find a compliant goat somewhere in the vicinity. These Westerners sure do have some strange ideas about what restaurants are for. You’d think they couldn’t read the sign in bright red neon letters over the door.”
Spaghetti Lee
@maye:
I thought it was OK for what it was (I was expecting worse, given how many reviewers seemed to hate it), but it struck me just how grim and angry it was. It’s Superman for God’s sake! You know, Truth, Justice, American way, save the baby and fly into the sunset? The whole tough gritty angsty GRR! thing you get with almost every action/superhero movie these days has limits, and this movie smacked right into them.
Steeplejack
@Hill Dweller:
You make a good point. Actors can become trapped by stardom. “My price is now $5 million per movie,” so all you are offered is blockbusters. That’s all that works financially. Or, if you deign to do a little independent movie, it becomes your vanity project and the whole thing sinks under its own weight.
When I see the trailers for The Lone Ranger all I can think of is Depp in Dead Man, which is a great little movie (with a great soundtrack by Neil Young). I don’t see how he ever gets back to doing something like that.
ETA: George Clooney is the actor who comes to mind as having navigated this situation somewhat successfully.
ChrisNYC
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): Second the convenience store suggestion. I think I spent about an hour the first time I went in one. Interesting candy! Who knows what it is! Also in a good convenience store, the prepped food is not bad (soup, dumplings, noodles). Do go out! Just wander and walk into places and smile a lot and use your hands and whatever words you have. China is the only place I’ve ever been where the thing about “trying to speak the language will be appreciated” holds true. It’s like the anti France. I did an entire eye exam and glasses purchase with only hand gestures.
Xi’an is famous for meat buns. Never had but they sound good.
TCG
@Gex: All of the people interested in story telling are working in television now. I probably go to the movies 3 or 4 times a year, but pretty much every Sunday night I am home watching some series on cable. That seems to be where the real talent and imagination is. It also certainly seems to be the best venue for book adaptions.
I think you are right about the housing bubble analogy. There is so much focus on opening weekend numbers, but it takes so long for so many of these movies to make a profit, I just don’t know how it can go on. $200 million for an old 1950s western? $200 million for a zombie film? $130 million for Will Smith’s kid? Who greenlights this shit?
SiubhanDuinne
O/T sports: I am enjoying watching the Braves beat the snot out of Filthydelphia tonight (fully aware that it’s not over til it’s over).
John O
@quannlace: I went with Schindler’s List tonight.
Haven’t seen it in a LONG time. And I had forgotten how brutally beautiful it is.
TCG
@Steeplejack: A lot of actors do agree to do the big blockbuster silly movies to get the more serious or vanity films (that probably won’t make a profit) made. Sometimes it’s a good deal and sometimes it isn’t.
Stella
@Spaghetti Lee: Good to know. I actually never saw it when I was a kid. It is just about ten years ahead of my time I think. I was going by what I have seen in old westerns and the like. To me Johnny Depp is Native enough to play this Native because he looks a lot like my brother who is just a little darker skinned and because I too have had a lot of white people tell me I am not really Native because of being mixed race. Just like certain white people want to say Obama is not really black.
maye
@Spaghetti Lee: I just can’t take 2.5 hours of CGI mayhem. If they had made it an hour shorter, I might have felt less like I was being punished. My enjoyment of a movie is usually directly related to how many times I look at my watch. It I get through an entire film without checking the time, it’s usually an Oscar contender.
Bob In Portland
I liked “John Carter” too.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@NickT:
A good friend of mine brought his three or four year old daughter to the US from Oz. The flight was something like 22 hours. I met them at the airport. I asked him how the flight went and he answered “I now understand child abuse.”
Keith
@Bob In Portland: I liked Adam Sandler’s bomb “That’s My Boy”…a lot.
karl
@different-church-lady: Well, wouldn’t you rather be closer to the legend than to the dog?
Steeplejack
@SiubhanDuinne:
Yes, I am enjoying that too.
Now that I live in the D.C. area I don’t see the Braves as much as I used to. But it hasn’t been so bad since the Nats and the Orioles got better.
RAM
We saw it at the little theatre in Phillips, Wisconsin. Tickets were $3 each and the popcorn and Pepsi were another $3.50. If you like movies, move to northern Wisconsin. Anyway, it was worth $3.
Botsplainer
Really sick of assholes with fireworks.
Higgs Boson's Mate
Hey kids, Boeing’s Phantom Eye is the latest thing in dronez. Fueled with liquid hydrogen, the drone can stay aloft for four days with plans to extend that to ten days. In the video, Boeing Phantom Works president Darryl Davis stated that four Phantom Eyes would be sufficient to keep the entire continental US under surveillance 24/7.
All together now; If you aren’t doing anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about.
Woodrowfan
I’m avoiding “Lone Ranger.” I learned my lesson with “Wild, Wild, West.” When the critics and Rotten Tomatoes both say it stinks, it stinks.
OTOH, I was never a Lone Ranger fan. He (and Superman too) both bored me even as a kid, so avoiding their movie remakes isn’t difficult.
Looking forward to DM2.
Redshirt
@maye: Could not disagree more. I thought Man of Steel was brilliant, and an awesome summer blockbuster.
Anyone else like it?
WWZ was OK, but disappointing given the excellent book.
wasabi gasp
@Botsplainer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgMTmXcMS1E
nsfw
Spaghetti Lee
@Redshirt:
I’m somewhere in between you two. It was better than I thought it would be, but it wasn’t the best summer superhero movie I’ve ever seen. It would have been better if it had a little more bounce in its step, i.e. less visual mayhem, fewer long explanatory sequences, and a bit of a sense of humor, is that too much to ask? Swear to god, the Dark Knight had more laughs than this one, and TDK was billed as The Dark, Deconstructive Superhero Movie.
I did think that some of the more peaceful scenes, especially with young Clark on the farm, had a certain artiness about them, to my untrained eye at least. I wonder if people who would rather be doing art films but can’t find any slip their more artistic techniques into superhero movies wherever they can.
Redshirt
@Botsplainer:
ROTJ is an interesting case, because it was the first time Lucas was given UNLIMITED POWER in his own movies, and you can tell. You can see the beginnings of the creative rot which would come to full display in the prequel trilogy.
ROTJ has brilliant moments – the space battle at the end, Luke and Vader and the Emperor. Everything on Endor and in the opening 30 minutes is kinda stupid.
Botsplainer
@efgoldman:
I was trying to toilet the puppy, but he won’t get more than 6 inches from my feet because of all the noise. Even inside, he’s laying on my feet.
Redshirt
@Spaghetti Lee: I can see your points – there wasn’t much humor. I was enthralled though, because it was the first Superman treatment that focused on Kal-El. The Alien. The God who walks among men, and is one of them, but is not of them.
I never really liked Superman previously, because of the Boy Scout-Gosh-Golly aspect that was played up in the previous movies and the comics. Where’s the tension? Where’s the drama, when you’ve got Mr Apple Pie with unlimited powers?
This movie, though, showed that conflict – and it was Kal-El. Not Clark, not Superman, but the alien child of a doomed world. I loved that the movie played more like sci-fi than comic book movie.
I also thought the special effects were the best I’ve ever seen in a comic movie.
As a big fan of The Matrix trilogy, I absolutely loved the many shout-outs to that series.
RSA
@Steeplejack:
Dead Man was superb. (A departure for Jim Jarmusch, but a great one.) It was praised, if I remember correctly, for its take on Native American cultures. So it’s hard for me to imagine why Depp would play the apparent caricature he does in The Lone Ranger–he’s been involved with much better.
CaseyL
I wouldn’t mind seeing a truly revisionist take on Superman. How would we react to a non-Terran humanoid with apparently limitless powers who claims to only want to help people?
Especially if the alien kid landed anywhere other than the USA. Even better, anywhere other than the Western hemisphere. A Superman raised in Africa, say, would be a radically different superhero, don’t you think?
Yeah, I know: good luck getting anything like that made!
Redshirt
I am SOOOOO sick of the Tim Burton/Johnny Depp/Helena Bonham Carter acting troupe. ENOUGH!
Maude
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
Someone I know brought her adopted daughter, who was 2 from South Korea. She said it was hell.
gene108
CGI killed story telling and dialogue in films. Why tell story or have characters talking to each other beyond one liners, when you can bomb the scene with CGI and I guess declare victory.
The latest Star Trek movie did this. It had very long drawn out CGI make movie boom sequences that just lasted too long.
Redshirt
@CaseyL: There’s a graphic novel called “Red Son” and it tells the tale of Kal-El crashing in the USSR Ukraine, rather than Kansas. It’s brilliant.
Jamey
Unrelated, but Pontiff Popey McPopersons FTW!
PeakVT
@j: I was referring to teevee in the wider sense, which includes HBO and the like, not just the 4 networks. My point was not that teevee doesn’t generally suck, but that the best teevee is a substitute for many non-blockbuster movies.
TCG
@Redshirt: I loved it. Superman was the most dull superhero up until now. Even the late great Christopher Reeve (RIP) couldn’t make him exciting.
Botsplainer
@Redshirt:
The creator of Superdickery.com has done a good job of setting forth how Superman is a dick.
currants
Surely someone else has already mentioned it (and I haven’t read the whole thread) but 20 ft from Stardom: seriously great music. Infuriating (white patriarchy kind of infuriating) but seriously great music.
SiubhanDuinne
@Redshirt:
Thanks, thought I was the only one. I liked HBC well enough as the Duchess of York/Queen Elzabeth (future Queen Mum) in The King’s Speech, but otherwise I find her, and Burton, and Depp, kind of creepy.
Redshirt
@Botsplainer: I am well aware of Superdickery, and I love it. The entire comic run of “Superman’s Pal, Jimmy Olsen” is filled to the brim with Supes being a superdick. It was an interesting turn in the character, because, to me, it’s more likely that a being like Superman would be a dick, rather than a boy scout cuz of “Kansas upbringing”. He’s a god, after all. Gods are usually dicks.
MikeJ
@gene108:
No. Bad directors, bad writers, bad studio execs killed dialog. Special effects are just what they use to fill the time.
International marketing also had a lot to do with it, since you don’t have to translate BOOM.
Redshirt
@TCG: Exactly. I really used to loathe Superman, but this version is interesting. I also thought this was the best Ma and Pa Kent – they’re not perfect bastions of American values, but rather normal folks who don’t know what they’re doing with an alien child.
And Zod and the rest of the Kryptonians were excellent. Loved the design aesthetic.
wasabi gasp
Dogtooth on Netflix
Patricia Kayden
@Just Some Fuckhead: You must mean Nicholas Cage because Kevin Costner is a great actor (Oscar winner for Directing “Dances with Wolves”).
Spike
The only franchise that has actually motivated me to enter the cineplex recently is the “Before” franchise: “Before Sunrise”, “Before Sunset”, and “Before Midnight”. But I rather doubt that anyone in Hollywood is losing sleep trying to motivate the likes of me.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@CaseyL: Obviously not an anime person. It’s Mechs: People built, people controlled giant suits of armor. The only thing that would make it better is if they would build the motorcycles that turn into smaller armor.
The Other Chuck
@CaseyL: Out of the total incoherence of the movie and self-indungent twaddle of the graphic novel, Watchmen did at least address the downside of a bona fide super-being being on the USA’s side: basically making us so arrogant and self-assured that we’d be more than ready to bring on World War 3, figuring we’d have a good chance of winning. In the end, it’s the Lex Luthor like evil genius who yanks the world back from the brink even though he had to kill thousands of people to do it (and the movie’s ending is leagues better than the graphic novel’s gobsmackingly idiotic version). He saves the world by taking away its only genuine Superman.
Alan Moore has fantastic story ideas and characters, but his actual writing is some of the most godawful urple prose I’ve ever been subjected to.
JoyfulA
As a child of the 50s, I loved the Lone Ranger radio series. IIRC, it was Tuesday and Thursday.
Redshirt
@The Other Chuck: There’s a wonderful Batman graphic novel where Superman is Ronnie Reagan’s personal weapon, and he wreaks havoc around the world per Reagan’s orders. Batman hates him.
I’m on cycle, so here’s a cool “Superdick” cover.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Redshirt: They made it into an animation. It’s available on netflix.
The Other Chuck
Pacific Rim is a Michael Bay film, right? Because it looks exactly like the kind of crap he’d put out. Michael Bay makes Jerry Bruckheimer look like Woody Allen. I like flash and sizzle as much as the next guy, but it should attempt a little artistry at least. If I’m going to watch plot-free porn, I want it to be the sex kind.
Bonnie
I have always been quietly surprised by any movie I went to see starring Johnny Depp. His performances often put a smile on my face, which that alone makes it worth the time and effort. My sister and I plan to go next week. Also, if the critics hatehatehate it, that often means I will like it.
Redshirt
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): Thanks for the tip! I’ll have to check that out, because that was the best Batman story I’ve ever read. Gritty as heck!
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): FWYP. I wanted to edit this. I thought we watched in on Netflix, but I can’t find it on there. They may have removed it.
Spaghetti Lee
@CaseyL:
Well, Supes already beat considerable odds by not hitting an ocean, or a polar area. Although I suppose there’s not much story to be had out of a Superman story where he lands 500 miles off the coast of Australia. (Unless baby Kryptonians can swim like sharks for days on end.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@The Other Chuck: No, it’s Guillermo del Toro.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@CaseyL:
Did you see the movie? Once Zod shows up and announces that Kal-El is there, this was basically the plot up to near the end.
the Conster
@Bonnie:
I’m the same way about Richard Gere movies. I just love him, and although that makes me unique in the world I don’t care. I totally get him, and he’s a good Buddhist too.
raven
Three hours later the Sand Pebbles is still great.
Redshirt
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): Indeed. There were three general hooks I thought were original in this Superman tale – 1. More detailed backstory on Krypton, 2. Young Clark having a miserable childhood because of his true nature (plays much more like an X-Men story than a Superman story), and 3, as you mention, introducing the idea that the world has reason to be afraid of Superman. I mean, he could destroy us all, if he wanted.
PurpleGirl
@Spaghetti Lee: Yes, I remembered Silverheels but not his first name.
? Martin
@Steeplejack: No, I do love Das Boot, but like Enemy Below better. Probably just for nostalgic reasons more than anything else.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
Watching The Warriors right now. CAN YOU DIG IT?
andy
Cannot wait for Pacific Rim. I’ve been hoping for a (domestic) Giant Bipedal Robots of Justice vs Evil Giant Monsters movie literally all my life, or at least since I remember watching Japanese Kaiju and Tokusatsu movies on the Matinee Money Movie in the 60’s and 70’s.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@efgoldman:
Who’d have thought a 2000-plus-year old story could have caused such controversy in the ’70s?
PurpleGirl
@efgoldman: Two of my favorites are Twelve O’Clock High and Stalag 17.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
I know some people have complained about the more realistic flawed-character direction the super hero movies have taken, but I have really liked the fact that two things have been fixed: Aunt May knows what Peter Parker does in the evenings, and Lois isn’t fooled by glasses.
MomSense
I’m surprised no one has mentioned Dean Spanley. It has a wonderful cast and features alcohol and dogs. Some beautiful scenes of dogs running the English countryside and Peter O’Toole is brilliant. He has some lovely moments in this film. The other cast members are Sam Neill, Bryan Brown, and Jeremy Northam.
? Martin
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): Wasn’t just the glasses, you know. Superman had a left part, Clark Kent had a right part.
PurpleGirl
@CaseyL:
I wouldn’t mind seeing a truly revisionist take on Superman. How would we react to a non-Terran humanoid with apparently limitless powers who claims to only want to help people?
See Rod Serling’s Twilight Zone: To Serve Man.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@efgoldman:
Oh, yeah, there was controversy. From Wikipedia:
CaseyL
@Redshirt: I haven’t read that one, but years ago I read a collection of short stories that offered alternate takes on Supes, and one of them was a wonderful, darkly comic tale about what would happen if he landed in the Stalin-era USSR.
PurpleGirl
@PurpleGirl: Yes, re-reading I see that “humanoid” and the aliens in To Serve Man aren’t humanoid. I still think it covers the ground of reacting to aliens who claim to want to help earth.
Old Dan and Little Ann
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): The Warriors did it! The Warriors shot Cyrus! My wife and I watched it last week when it was on some random time and channel after midnight. I hadn’t seen it on tv in about 25-30 years.
CaseyL
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): No, I haven’t. The reviews have been tepid,and it sounds kind of dreary. I may catch it when it comes out on DVD.
Diana
@Redshirt: you would mean Frank Miller’s 1985 Batman: the Dark Knight Falls, in which Superman bears the brunt of a Soviet nuclear warhead. One of the best graphic novels ever written. Thanks for making me dig up my old copy.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@efgoldman:
It was the most controversialist controversy ever for those of us who were 13-year old boys at the time. There were R-rated movies…then there was The Warriors.
When I finally saw it a few years later on HBO, I liked it, but I laughed (as I still do) at the wardrobe choices.
Origuy
I saw Monsters University the other night. I hadn’t seen Monsters, Inc, but I had a general idea of it. I thought it was cute and well done, even if the story was a lot like Revenge of the Nerds.
dww44
@dexwood: I know I’m late to this thread, but I actually did go out and see TLR today and it was far better than I expected. The scenery is wonderful, particularly that closing segment. My friend and I sat all the way thru all the closing credits just so we could find out where it was filmed.
BTW, not all critics hated it. A reviewer at Roger Ebert.com liked it. Matt Zoller Seitz . Though he thought it too long.The credits were a tad long, but I didn’t find the movie itself overly long. And I actually like the actor playing The Lone Ranger. IMO, he didn’t cede the whole movie to Depp’s Tonto.
dww44
Well, so much for not being able to use the link field to actually enter a link to my comment above at #202. I’ll try dropping it in here.
http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-lone-ranger-2013
Redshirt
@Diana: It really is. It’s amazing. I always liked Batman, but Miller’s take on him in this collection is superb – he’s really just insane, yet his insanity is directed towards “good”.
SPOILER
He’s also good enough to take on Superman, and win, for a bit. END
mclaren
When there’s such a huge disagreement twixt audience and critics, I usually go with the audience. So chances are this movie is much better than the critics make it seem.
FWIW I loved OZ THE GREAT AND POWERFUL.
FlipYrWhig
@Mike in NC:
Haha, I know the guy who wrote that movie. We went to high school together. After high school he went to Princeton, where his freshman roommate was… Ted Cruz.
FlipYrWhig
@Redshirt: And you know that every damn time they work together Burton calls up Depp and Bonham Carter and says, “In THIS film, you’re both going to be made up to look really, really white!” And they say, “Again?” And Burton says, “Wait, which movie is this again? Ah, whatever, I already sent the designer the notes.”
Original Lee
We saw “Now You See Me” a couple of weeks ago, and if it’s still around, I would definitely recommend seeing it.
We went to see “White House Down” last weekend (because there are teenagers in the house). Too much CG mayhem, IMO, and they completely erased the Old Post Office Tower from almost the entire movie because too much of the plot hung on the good guys not having access to the White House roof. It’s a basic blow-things-up movie, reasonably well done otherwise.
Original Son and Original Daughter have been holding weekly filmfests with their friends in our basement since school let out. So far, we have screened Lawrence of Arabia, Dr. Strangelove, 2001, 2010, The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, Stand By Me, Wrath of Khan, Musa, and Hudson Hawk.
Redshirt
@mclaren: Yeah, I thought Oz was kinda lame. Paint by numbers. Ham fisted. Not terrible, but not good either.
The women in the movie had little agency, unlike the original story. Just for starters.
Redshirt
@FlipYrWhig: Throw in a Danny Elfman soundtrack and we’ve got our next Burton film. Fill in the plot however you like.
mclaren
@Redshirt:
I second the recommendation of Red Son. Superman grows up fighting a never-ending battle for Stalin, the Soviet worker, and the expansion of the Warsaw Pact.
A real hoot.
AA+ Bonds
Banker-controlled media blitz for IMF exploitation and against Egyptian people began with full force today.
WSJ today:
Washington Post today:
The Telegraph today:
Don’t say I didn’t tell you so…………………
Not that I’m ever happy when I’m this right about capitalist exploitation.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@FlipYrWhig: In Helena’s case, he just wakes her up in the middle of the night: “I’ve got it: You’re going to play a wild haired woman -” “Again? I did that in Harry Potter.”
AA+ Bonds
It’s all about the IMF, of course, and selling off Egyptian infrastructure piece by piece.
The people in power and their media lackeys are busy building the frame for the conversation behind your back so when the rest of the country catches up, capitalist theft of Egypt’s wealth will be framed in terms of “freedom”.
mclaren
@Redshirt:
Whoa, whoa, whoa! “The women in the story had little agency”???? Dude, did you see the same movie I saw?
At the end there is a mega-gonzo wizardry battle between Glinda and one of the bad witches, and it pretty much decides the fate of the other characters. I would say that such a sequence of events pretty much defines giving women agency, wouldn’t you?
And it beats me how someone could call the story “paint by numbers.” It starts out with a guy who’s not very likeable and slowly discovers his capacity to become a better person over the course of the movie, while one of the female characters goes in exactly the opposite direction. That struck me as pretty good screenwriting, with compelling and not entirely predictable characters.
Just speaking for myself. I mean, when I think of “paint by numbers” films I think of crap like Armagaddon and The Rock.
mclaren
@AA+ Bonds:
Holy crap. That is some seriously sick shit.
I seem to recall Pinochet murdering several hundred thousand of his own citizens and getting accused of crimes against humanity before he fled his country in disgrace…
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@AA+ Bonds: Moviegoing is all about the IMF? If you insist.
Redshirt
@mclaren: A con man who finds his heart? A bit cliche.
Let’s consider each woman’s role in the movie: Glinda is avenging her murdered father. She needs Oz – the Con Man – to allow her to succeed. All defined by men.
Theodora – “Wicked Witch” – is a naive girl who falls in love with a stranger (Con Man) and then has her heart broken a few days later by her conniving sister, who poisons her. After her poisoning, she becomes the Wicked Witch and is nothing but false anger.
The only woman with a chance at agency in the film is Evanora, but she too is trumped by a cheap Con Man. While she is cunning and powerful, she too is naive and easily swayed by a good looking, smooth talking man.
The monkey is stupid too.
Spaghetti Lee
@Redshirt:
Agency and motivation are two different things, though, aren’t they?
mclaren
@Spaghetti Lee:
The best summer superhero film I’ve seen would have to be a tie between X-Men: First Class and Spiderman 2. Both were dynamite, with great performances, superb scripts, and knockout effects. Above all, you really cared about the characters in those films.
Haven’t seen the Superman film, but the big problem with all Superman stories is that you know he’s never going to die so you just can’t really give a damn about him. It’s the people around Superman who can die, but without building up lots of backstory on people like Lois Lane (and whatever happened to Lana Lang, by the way, and why don’t the movies ever include her?) and Ma and Pa Kent and Jimmy Olson and Perry White, hard see how we can care very much about what happens to those folks in this movie.
Suffern ACE
@Mr Stagger Lee: ok. That is silly. The Lone Ranger of the 50s was about balancing justice in favor of the small rancher (maybe even a widow) against the larger concerns. The violence report troubles me if it is the Lone Ranger killing folk. Beyond the mask and the hi-ho business, the guy’s most memorable trait was the ability to shoot a gun out of someone’s hand and not hit anyone even with a riccochet. The folks around the Lone Ranger while bad guys aren’t supposed to be depraved and that is a problem.
mclaren
@Redshirt:
Well, guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. I’ll grant you that the con man with the heart of gold is a cliche, but it was done well enough here that I found it moving.
Glinda thinks she needs Oz’s help, but the way I read the movie was that by the end she realizes she really doesn’t.
Theodora is under a spell, so from my perspective her anger is genuine. Sure, it’s a magic spell, but does that make the anger any less real?
Didn’t see how Evanora got swayed by Oz’s good looks. Seems like she got knocked off balance by his con game so Glinda could step in and knock her down.
I loved the monkey and the china girl, but hey! Maybe I’m just soft-hearted.
Redshirt
@Spaghetti Lee: Yes, but in this case they are closely related, in that of the three main witches only one of them apparently has motivation and agency, but she too is but fodder to the male “Wizard”. Glinda is ONLY effective with the assistance of Oz; Theodora, our great villain from the original, is but a pawn to her sister, and her downfall is entirely due to an unrealistic “crush” on Oz.
mclaren
@Mr Stagger Lee:
This is the thing I’m getting a lot from reviewers — mucho butthurt about the way the businessmen and the U.S. army in this movie get depicted as villains.
Well boo fucking hoo. Cry me a river. What the hell? Like the lampreys on Wall Street are some kind of role model…
Redshirt
@mclaren: Surely you, of all people, can see how a magic spell is no excuse. Would you excuse the poor white women who vote against their own interests time and time again if they were under some cultural spell? The Bible, for example?
mclaren
@Spaghetti Lee:
Boy, amen to that. Howzabout Hollywood tries making some films like The Godfather Parts I & II or D.O.A. (1949, the original) or Casablanca or Kramer vs. Kramer or The Breakfast Club instead of the endless series of giant-monster-explosion visual-effects-fests?
mclaren
@Redshirt:
We’ll have to disagree. I think your analogy doesn’t work because in this movie, magic and wizards and witches are real. Whereas in the real world where white women vote against their own interests, magic and witches are not actually real things and nobody can genuinely cast spells on people.
But as I say, that’s just me. Maybe I’m an outlier. I really did like the movie, but perhaps I’m just in a minority.
Redshirt
@mclaren: The Witch’s power is real, the Wizard’s is not. But the Wizard still trumps all the Witches.
mclaren
@Redshirt:
Well, I don’t think Oz trumped Evanora, did he? Glinda had to take her out, unless I’m mistaken.
But we’re really talking about the logic of the plot, whereas the main issue for you is that the film didn’t work emotionally or visually. It did for me. FWIW, this schism seems to be reflected in the reviews — some reviewers found the movie effective, while other reacted the way you did.
Redshirt
@mclaren:
Yes, but again, her motivation is revenge for her Father, and it is Oz’s tricks which drove Evanora out of power and cowering, ready for woman on woman violence.
mclaren
@GregB:
Despicable Me was a great little French CGI movie. Wonderful caricatures for all the characters, like Daumiers come to life. I hope the sequel is as good.
Pacific Rim fills me with dread since Guillermo del Toro is such a superb director. The film has the feel on something he was forced to do because the Hollywood suits who finance movies wouldn’t fund a character-driven historical film like Pan’s Labyrinth. I really hope Pacific Rim isn’t as crap-awful as it looks from the previews… Given how much the film cost (north of 200 million) it could mean the end of his directing career if it bombs.
Warren
@mclaren: Sorry you live in a town without an independent cinema or access to Netflix. That must suck.
The Other Steve
I just have one question.
Was Die Hard a very original story? I’m just wondering because I saw White House Down and it was a total remake, so was Olympus Has Fallen and I don’t know how many other movies I’ve seen in recent years. (not including Die Hard 16 or whatever the latest was that was super bad).
I just wonder if the reason I think Die Hard was pretty original story is because I was a kid when I saw it.(er well college)
Maybe kids today will grow up thinking White House Down is an original story, although I doubt it.
Anne Laurie
@Suffern ACE:
On the contrary — I can now report that the movie would’ve ended after ten minutes if John Reid (not yet TLR) didn’t have such an unrealistic, high-minded prejudice against killing people, even people who deeply deserve killing. And although a number of villians end up designing their own deaths, the movie never stoops to the sorry old “hero realizes some folks just need to be made dead” trope.
Amir Khalid
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
And in Sweeney Todd, and in Les Miserables …
Another Halocene Human
I know it’s late, but I’m boycotting #RACEFAIL
Looks like America did too-the Despicable Me movie crushed Lone Ranger this weekend. And the buzz on the streets is that it sucks and that it’s going to bomb like the Superman of several years ago.
What’s really going to kill this movie is the feeling that Depp phoned it in and has contempt for the fans who made him very, very rich.
Rotten tomato probably has upfists right now from the oblivious people who went to see it and liked it. Expect it too get downfists later from people who didn’t see it but like to troll movies which have a reputation for being bad.
Also, I heard that you couldn’t get parking to see Despicable Me but no such reports around the theater that had Lone Ranger, so this was a big weekend. That’s gotta hurt.
Southern Beale
Yes, yes and more yes. Jesus I’m so OVER blockbusters. They’re all so fucking alike. Husband has dragged me to more than a few — Iron Man, Star Trek, World War Z — but I’ve said no to the vast majority of them. I have zero interest in seeing White House Down, Jesus Christ Superman, etc.
And the thing is, every summer that’s ALL they fucking have in the megaplex here. So usually the summer is when we go to our indie theater and watch foreign films and documentaries.
Now, yesterday we did see “This Is The End,” and it was pretty hilarious. Of course, it’s not really a blockbuster.
Southern Beale
Oh, and I will say, World War Z was awesome.
jake the snake
As someone noted earlier, the writer’s strike drove a lot of good writers from movies to cable TV. As a result, we have The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Mad Men, etc.
On NPR, a former movie writer said she was told by a film producer that they have one rule, no drama, just comedy and action blockbusters.
The only film I have seen in the last few months was Star Trek: Into Darkness, and I spent the last 30 minutes or so seething, repressing my desire to kick JJ Abrams in the testicles.
As far as John Carter, it deserved to be a better movie that it was, though I did enjoy it, despite some bizarre plot choices.
Why take Tars Tarkas from the badass he was in the books to a wimp? In the books, Tars Tarkas was the second greatest
swordsman on Mars. At least until John Carter’s son Carthoris was hatched.
Slag
Much Ado was the best movie I’ve seen in a while.
JR
The wife and I went to see Much Ado About Nothing last night (my first time, her second). Not only is it nice to see an adaptation of Shakespeare that actually works (and this one does, and generally features very good performances), but it’s nice to go to a movie where, if you need to take a three minute break to see a man about a horse, you’ll know EXACTLY what you missed when you were gone.
Side note: we saw it at a Landmark Theater (Mark Cuban’s chain) that had reserved “living room” seating, and a full bar in the lobby. The seats themselves are large, comfy, recliner-style chairs with plenty of legroom (like business class, but with nicer armrests). Highly recommended for bourgeois urban elitists like myself.
mclaren
@jake the snake:
That’s so sad. I’ve noticed that there are now a lot of different kinds of movies that can no longer be made. Musicals, for example: they’re gone. Can’t make ’em anymore. But on TV, there’s GLEE.
Screwball comedies like MY MAN GODREY or IT HAPPENED ONE NIGHT can’t be made anymore. But on TV there’s ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT (or was) and SHAMELESS.
Serious dramas can’t be made anymore for the movies. But on TV there are plenty of serious dramas, like FRIDAY NIGHT LIGHTS and GAME OF THRONES.
Film noir can’t be made anymore in Hollywood. But on TV there’s still room for film noir like BREAKING BAD.
The range of movies has shrunk horribly to a tiny little gamut that runs from about A to B. Superhero CGI blockbusters and gross-out frat comedies like AMERICAN PIE. But on TV, there’s an enormous range of types of stories that can still be told. Maybe that’s why TV is so much better than movies today.
Sondra
I stayed up until 2:20 am last night watching “John Carter” on the SctFi channel and I loved loved loved it. I predict it will be another one of those cult classics that the critics hated at first and that people ignored at first.
Over time it will become to the movies what “Star Trek” and “Firefly” were to teevee. In fact I’m betting it will become a teevee series sooner rather than later.
Poodle
Loved the movie. Gory parts would most likely go over the heads of kids as battles they have aready seen on tv, it’s alluded to in some scenes. Johnny Depp was perfect and respectful, poignant blending of then and now, with great special effects. The horse is so intelligent to learn all it performed. It shows the background of how and why they began, many things we didn’t know. Everyone in the theater was tearing up and stayed 10 mins or so for full credits to see “what was going to happen next”. Especially great for those who watched the series as a kid.