Their appeal is becoming more selective

Elias Isquith makes a good point about the much-ballyhooed “conservative reformers” — that they’re largely all about W-style “compassionate conservatism” minus the attempts to court non-white voters:

What’s especially troubling is that these changes, though small, tend to lean in the direction of making compassionate conservatism even worse. Whereas compassionate conservatives tried to woo minority voters by focusing on education reform, the conservative reformers prefer instead to lock in that dwindling subset of sometimes-Republicans: working-class whites. Douthat and Salam’s essay has much to say about “pro-family” tax reform — they even flirt with endorsing wage subsidies and Romneycare — and the struggling economic station of the working class. But when it comes to minority voters, the authors rather blithely conclude that the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina has rendered futile any attempts to court African Americans. Gobry, meanwhile, is too busy unpersuasively explaining why Ronald Reagan was secretly pro-government.

I don’t believe conservative reformers have so little to say on race due to bigotry. But the focus on lower-scale whites is not only strategically questionable…

In many ways “Sam’s Club Conservatism” is admirable, in that it’s a plan to do something for working class voters instead of relying on Nixon/Buchanan backlash identity politics to appeal to hardworking white Americans (heh). But it won’t accomplish much politically, unless it’s accompanied by a plan to compete for non-white voters.

Maybe by giving white working-classs voters something more than bigotry and Gods, guns, and gays, Republicans can continue to do well with that demographic while at the same time retreating from the culture wars they are now badly losing. But that seems like a very long-term plan to me.

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129 replies
  1. 1
    Brother Machine Gun of Desirable Mindfulness (fka AWS) says:

    Such a small group that they don’t really exist.

  2. 2
    cleek says:

    one of these days, a genuinely charismatic Republican who wants nothing to do with the racial and anti-liberal politics that drives the GOP of today is going to win the Presidency, and he or she will change what the public thinks conservatism can be. and all of the stuff that’s holding the current GOP hostage will just waft away.

    just the way Clinton did for liberalism.

    the GOP isn’t going to force itself to change because a bunch of elite pundits think it should. it will change when something comes along that changes its focus without it even knowing what happened.

    beware the one from NJ.

  3. 3
    Alexandra says:

    It seems pretty clear that some of the press are itching to write a Republican comeback story and while I have some reservations about Hillary Clinton, at least with an effective campaign which is by no means certain, she has the potential to deliver a stomping across states that Obama struggled with in 2012, as well as possibly having huge coat-tails, returning the House to the Democrats.

    An electoral crushing is the only thing Republicans will understand… and all this talk of reform which is just really tinkering around the edges, will then become something far more serious. Buy popcorn futures.

    @cleek:

    “beware the one from NJ”

    Yeah, that too.

  4. 4
    sublime33 says:

    The Republicans have successfully sold the white working middle class voters that “at least you are better than the blacks/Hispanics/gays/Muslims”. So any legislation that hurts these “lower castes” is a win for Republicans and these voters. What they haven’t figured out is that just because the “lower castes” has something taken away, it isn’t going into the working class pockets. It is going straight to the top 1%. So while they can nod their head and say “ditto” when someone says these “underclass” are dependent on government, their class is just as dependent on the 1% providing them jobs and a speed pass to cut to the front of the lines for health care and maybe education. And the 1% can’t be voted out of office.

  5. 5
    sublime33 says:

    @cleek: No doubt Chritie would have an outstanding chance running against a Democrat for President, even against Hillary. But he has to get nominated by the Republican party, and that won’t happen until there is a series of McGovern/Carter II/Mondale/Dukakis ass kickings that forces a leadership change within the party.

  6. 6
    piratedan says:

    @cleek: I wouldn’t mind that, but I think I’ll follow the money…. the money looks like it’s still backing Religious God Botherers, the Koch Brothers Libertarians R’ Us political franchises and Corporate K-Street Wannabees. Maybe some guy like Christie breaks that triumvirate, if so, he’s gonna need a bigger hammer.

  7. 7
    Todd says:

    The Reagan Democrats are now either working as greeters at Wal-Mart, unemployed, raising their grandchildren or trying to provide a safe harbor to their adult offspring in binds.

    They’re done, and if they don’t know who to blame, are now politically apathetic.

  8. 8
    pokeyblow says:

    It would be nice to live in a country where a there was no plurality in support of radical ignorance, superstition, and tribal hatred.

    It is 2013. I hope some time we can get a bit more futuristic without an accompanying increase in the dystopia score.

  9. 9
    Gindy51 says:

    @piratedan: Nope, not Christie, no matter how bombastic or kiss ass he is to Obama, he is still owned by the very people you mentioned running the GOP. He follows their script no matter what role he plays on the TV machine.

  10. 10
    Short Bus Bully says:

    @cleek: THIS.

    Christie only has to make it through the primaries and he’ll have one hell of a chance at the white house.

  11. 11
    pokeyblow says:

    @Gindy51: I don’t think the “thoughtful” republican exists in public life these days. Pathetic to watch the media pretend, again and again, that this isn’t the case.

  12. 12
    MattF says:

    @cleek: But there’s a serious, specific problem– the Republican party has become the property of the South. The voters who own today’s Republican party aren’t going to identify with a guy from Newark, which isn’t even southern New Jersey.

  13. 13
    BGinCHI says:

    If white voters (working class and otherwise) would spend less time worrying about being white and more time worrying about what is making their lives worse over the last several decades, they’d be obviously much better off.

    The race card is the joker in the American deck.

  14. 14
    NobodySpecial says:

    @Short Bus Bully: Christie would have a better chance doing the Iditarod on foot. If he even looks like he’s getting a toehold, one faction or two will put the brakes on posthaste.

  15. 15

    But it won’t accomplish much politically, unless it’s accompanied by a plan to compete for non-white voters.

    I’m not sure about this; in 2012, the presidential electorate was around 72% white. Yes, in the long term, a GOP that is entirely based on identity politics & the Southern Strategy is doomed. But adding some kind of sensible policy to the mix couldn’t hurt in the meantime.

  16. 16
    Hunter Gathers says:

    @Short Bus Bully:

    Christie only has to make it through the primaries and he’ll have one hell of a chance at the white house.

    He won’t make it through the primary. The only way he does is if he goes full metal teabagger. Even if he does, his aspirations will wither and die the first time he gets caught yelling at a female teacher on national television. That shit might work in Jersey and in the Beltway, but if the Clintons don’t milk his predilection for yelling at women for all it’s worth, they deserve to lose to that human stain.

  17. 17
    Ahasuerus says:

    Except that “the one from New Jersey” started out by sabotaging a marriage equality vote in NJ. He then proceeded to wreck the third harbor tunnel project, costing the state several billion dollars in federal funds and many thousands of jobs. Fresh from that little fiasco, he then instigated a last-minute education funding re-write that ultimately cost the state several hundred million federal education dollars, and has been relentless in his anti-union rhetoric in general and anti-teacher-union in particular. In fact, the only positive thing he has done has been what he was supposed to do in the aftermath of Sandy. If he runs, all of this will come out again, and may make him less attractive to liberal and moderate voters.

    For me, personally, the biggest thing was the anti-gay stuff. If he believes it, he’s a bigot, and that’s ugly. If he doesn’t believe it, he’s pandering to bigots for personal gain, and that’s even worse. And that’s exactly the kind of person we don’t need to consider for higher office, especially in this day and age.

  18. 18
    BGinCHI says:

    If Christie runs I predict there will be 3 or 4 debates. Unless they can figure out how to do none.

    Once the issues come out, even in the fucked up way they do at GOP debates, the candidates are in albatross city.

    Is Preibus smart enough to get rid of debates?

  19. 19
    Mark S. says:

    Weird article. He argues that some Republican “thinkers” are trying to bring back compassionate conservatism based on two articles, one of them written in 2005. As for Gobry, never heard of him, and after reading a page of him, decided it wasn’t worth the trouble. Real writers don’t bold every third sentence.

  20. 20
    IowaOldLady says:

    @MattF: They voted for Romney. Christie scares me because he comes across as way more human.

  21. 21
    sublime33 says:

    @Short Bus Bully: “Christie only has to make it through the primaries and he’ll have one hell of a chance at the white house.”

    And if I get Kate Upton to go out on a first date with me, I have a hell of a chance or marrying her.

  22. 22
    cleek says:

    @MattF:
    the Republican party has become the property of the South

    ORLY?

  23. 23
    Laertes says:

    @BGinCHI:

    Priebus is smart enough to get rid of debates, but he’s not smart enough to build a party that isn’t afraid of debates.

  24. 24
    MattF says:

    @BGinCHI: If Christie, somehow, gets the nomination, I think he’d do very well in debates– he’s smart and charismatic. And don’t forget that the media will be doing everything in their power to make the election into a horserace.

  25. 25
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Ahasuerus: Christie is, in my eyes, a Paul Ryan conservative with Newt Gingrich’s personality. Absolutely bewilders me how many people seem to have convinced themselves he’s a William Weld or CT Whitman type. When he got the call about Sandy, he was on a stage in Virginia telling a bunch of Romney voters Barack Obama was so dumb that if he walked in to a dark room, he couldn’t figure out how to flip on a light switch. Even the simpering, self-effacing choirboy tone he affected when he announced he wasn’t running in ’12 made me think of one of Gingrich’s speeches from the nineties, right down to their wives (at the time of the speech) being named Marianne

  26. 26
    hildebrand says:

    Until the House Republicans get absolutely clouted in an election, the Republicans will continue to think that they have the magic formula. It really doesn’t matter who the presidential nominee is because the house freaks will think that they will be able to control that person – whoever it is, even Christie. Look at the Senate Republicans, they haven’t moderated, as one would think would happen after losing the presidency for second time in a row, and continuing to lose members after ghastly primaries have put neanderthals on the ticket, they have fully embraced the House attitude and legislative agenda. Until the Democrats retake the House, we will continue to see the rank ugliness and entropy that has engulfed Washington – because the Republicans have yet to see any downside to their knavery.

  27. 27
    cmorenc says:

    @Short Bus Bully:

    Christie only has to make it through the primaries and he’ll have one hell of a chance at the white house.

    But Christie will only have a chance to make it through the primaries if both a) events between now and 2016 induce an attitude adjustment in enough of the less hard-core ideological GOP primary voters to support Christie that he’s strongly competitive against the more hard-core conservative candidates; and b) the hard-core conservative primary voters remain stubbornly fractured among two or three candidates deep enough into the primary process for Christie to build a commanding delegate lead.

    Unfortunately for Christie and the GOP (and fortunately for the country) IMHO a still-controlling portion of the GOP primary electorate has jumped the shark, and will be stubbornly unforgiving of Christie’s apparent apostacy to true conservative principles, foremost among which is to do nothing which appears in the slightest to favorably acknowledge or cooperate with Obama. That’s why Christie’s chances on winning the nomination depend on a tricky, uncertain potential coalition of circumstances outlined above, including a prolonged fracturing of the hard-core base across several other candidates.

  28. 28
    NickT says:

    the culture wars they are now badly losing

    This is mostly true on gays and minorities, not so true when it comes to women and reproductive rights – especially at state level.

  29. 29
    Tripod says:

    This is the same strategic bullshit that fueled RMoney 2012. Just get a few more white votes…..

    It’s hoping for a 2010 redux, and that dynamic has dissipated.

    I’ll also note the framing – “Sam’s Club Conservatism”, is a naked appeal to conspicuous consumption.

  30. 30
    MikeJ says:

    @cleek: Any place there are more cows than people the GOP wins, regardless of geography.

  31. 31
    feebog says:

    @ reflectionephemeral:

    in 2012, the presidential electorate was around 72% white.

    And that number has been dropping by about 2% every four years. By 2016 it will be 70% or less. Which means any Republican candidate must get 40 to 45% of the Hispanic vote, and at least 10 to 15% of the AA vote. Ain’t gunna happen.

  32. 32
    VidaLoca says:

    @MattF:

    But there’s a serious, specific problem– the Republican party has become the property of the South.

    If that were true then the Republicans in Wisconsin would not have won the Governor’s race in 2010, and won it again by a 1% greater margin in 2012. Here they’ve figured out how to weaponize white privilege and a “crabs in a bucket” model of social organization that appeals quite well to declassed white workers in rural areas as well their main base in the wealthy counties in the southeast part of the state. This is their coalition and Scott Walker is going to ride it to success once again in 2014. And Wisconsin is Reince Priebus’ home state; don’t think that they are not paying attention nationally and considering how this model can be generalized. Their political program here differs from the one they run in the South, that much is true: instead of putting the social conservative agenda front and center they nail it on at the end of their economic program as an afterthought. But they’re still highly effective at it.

  33. 33
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    The “reformers” are trying, desperately, to sell the model of something like Confederate society to this country in the 21st Century.

    Not going to happen. The melanin enhanced have figured out the model, the Asians have figured out the model, and a lot of white people, who know that the way to survive in a multi-cultural America is to embrace it and champion it don’t want that model because they’re well aware that they’ll be lumped in with the racist shit if they don’t.

    So the GOP is screwed. Period. Rump party of racist assholes. Fuck them all with rusty chainsaws.

  34. 34
    flounder says:

    My right wing Sam’s Club conservative relatives were pretty much atheists 20 yrs ago. Now they post a bunch of Jesus stuff and culture war material on Facebook. I don’t think the Bubba’s thereformers are trying to appeal to will let them stop the culture wars.

  35. 35
    ChrisNYC says:

    I just can’t take Christie seriously. I think he passed over into pol-celebrity in the way that takes you out of consideration for the WH long ago. I think it shifts the relationship with voters in a bad way — “he’s that crazy governor character who Fallon makes fat jokes about to his face — oh I love him” is different than “he’s who I want for prez.” I don’t think Christie wants to run or to be prez, too.

  36. 36
    Jennifer says:

    Christie’s not gonna be the nominee, and here’s why: as soon as he gets high enough in the polling, Santorum, Rand Paul, Ted Cruz and whatever other crazies they have running are going to start running campaign ads showing Cristie hugging Obama (he did, didn’t he? If he didn’t, they’ll just show the clip of him standing next to Obama with a clip of him saying positive things about him as the voiceover). Those ads are going to run in heavy rotation until Christie falls to the back of the pack.

    Santorum will be their next nominee, because by then it will be his “turn,” since he’s run twice now, which is how Republicans usually decide these things. The only exception to that rule was W, who bought his way to the front of the line in a rare year where it wasn’t already crystal clear whose “turn” it was to play the nominee.

  37. 37
    NickT says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    I worry about this view of the GOP’s inevitable downfall. They may find it very hard to win the presidency – but they are fully capable of obstructing in the Senate and Congress and doing immense damage at state level for the foreseeable future. Not to mention their singularly sordid crew of judges clogging up the judiciary. I’d like to see a coherent, relentless plan from the Democrats for rooting out the right wing crazies at state level as well as winning nationally, but I haven’t seen too much beyond vague mutterings about finally getting out the vote in Texas.

  38. 38
    Brother Machine Gun of Desirable Mindfulness (fka AWS) says:

    @NickT:

    They may find it very hard to win the presidency – but they are fully capable of obstructing in the Senate and Congress and doing immense damage at state level for the foreseeable future.

    This. This. This. This.

    The fuckers don’t need the White House. Thanks to the constitutional compromise on “state’s rights” they can fuck things up from here to forever through their local and state elections.

  39. 39
    aimai says:

    @Jennifer: Jennifer is right. Christie has done enough hihg profile things to make himself toxic to the far right–every single thing that causes idiot middle of the roaders to imagine that he might be “the one” who can unite the country are the very same things that will cause the far right to run screaming in the other direction.

  40. 40
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @aimai:

    Yup. Embracing the near sheriff all by itself makes him toxic to the vile racist scum that makes up the GOP primary voters.

  41. 41
    hildebrand says:

    @NickT: And the vague mutterings in Texas are going to remain vague until Texas Dems figure out how to motivate a great many Hispanics in the Rio Grande Valley to actually get out and vote. Politicians were thrilled that Hidalgo County (McAllen/Edinburg/Mission) hit 48% voting in the last election – that simply won’t help Dems win statewide (that and the off-year elections percentages are god-awful – they drop an easy 10-20 percent). Folks in the Valley are absolutely convinced that it doesn’t matter who wins, because they always get screwed because the rest of Texas doesn’t acknowledge their existence. They would vote for Democrats, and when they vote they tend to vote for Democrats in good numbers, but they don’t feel particularly motivated to do so.

  42. 42
    gene108 says:

    @sublime33:

    Christie is not a DLC/Democrat equivalent.

    He’s just as anti-poor, anti-abortion, etc. as anyone else in the Republican Party. He’s stuck with a Democratic legislature that he’s learned to give out enough largesse to get their support and they, in turn, keep the worst of his right-wing impulses in check, making his political rise possible.

    In short, it won’t be hard for Christie to appeal to the right-wing base in a GOP primary in places like South Carolina, because he’s really not that far away from guys like Santorum on social issues.

  43. 43
    Xenos says:

    @Tripod:

    I’ll also note the framing – “Sam’s Club Conservatism”, is a naked appeal to conspicuous consumption.

    Sam’s Club patrons are homeowners. Apartment-dwellers do not have enough room for 48-packs of paper towels, 118-packs of toilet paper, nor kitchen big enough to be buying such enormous cuts of meat. But certainly a glorification of consumerism, which is what a lot of the appeal for home ownership is about.

    With the passing of the housing boom, I would think the category is no longer so useful politically. With rumors of a new housing bubble starting up, maybe not.

  44. 44
    Eric U. says:

    the problem I see is that Democratic voters are easily discouraged. The whole NSA dustup is typical. I went over to dKos and had to leave, it is a festering cesspool of Naderites. We would have a pretty decent government if these people would just go out and vote and stop sniping at the first misreported story that makes Dems look bad.

  45. 45
    BGinCHI says:

    @MattF: Sorry, but no. He’ll do well for whom? If he tries to “win” the debate for the right wing base (AKA, pretty much the whole GOP) then he’s going to have a hell of a time getting back to the center for the General. Plus he has a record that is not exactly friendly to lots of people (education, glbt, etc.).

    And if he wins by having good ideas? Ones that people like?

    He’ll never win the GOP nomination.

  46. 46
    Xenos says:

    The thread title is from Spinal Tap, right?

    I am getting jaded and it is taking longer to notice these things…

  47. 47
    hildebrand says:

    @Eric U.: Bingo. Case in point – the 2010 mid-term election.

  48. 48
    Ruckus says:

    A lot of very good points here.
    One problem is we keep fighting the conservatives instead of coming up with a reason why people should like our better platform and candidates. And that won’t change until we can decrease the racial bigotry in this country. As much as I hate to say it because it is so wrong to have to say it, we need a white male to be our leader. Obama is so much a better president than our last debacle and I’d vote for him for the third time, if that was possible. He is a good man, he is doing a good job in a job that is almost impossible. But race in this country is still a huge problem. Running away from it won’t work but running head long into it has created even more problems. Too many people aren’t ready, and of course way too many never will be ready. Now obviously many of us are ready, we elected the man in a huge win. And we were right to do so. But it has divided the country even more and made it almost ungovernable. And I think the same logic applies to Hillary or any woman for that matter. We as a nation aren’t ready. We should be and we can blame the conservative southern strategy for some of this but it is all over the country. We are a bigoted nation, not all of us, but a large percentage is.

  49. 49
    gene108 says:

    @ChrisNYC:

    I don’t think Christie wants to run or to be prez, too.

    Hope you’re right. He’d probably win the Presidency in 2016, if he runs.

    @Jennifer:

    Christie’s not gonna be the nominee, and here’s why: as soon as he gets high enough in the polling, Santorum, Rand Paul, Ted Cruz and whatever other crazies they have running are going to start running campaign ads showing Cristie hugging Obama

    I don’t think Santorum, et. al. have the cajones to put together an actual field operation to secure the Presidential nomination. They’ll survive on billionaire largess until the billionaires get bored and decide to back the candidate most likely to win, which would be Christie.

    For all the crap Mitt had to walk back – his pro-choice position, Romneycare, etc. – he had an actual field organization that could run an actual political campaign and wasn’t 100% dependent on Friesz or Adelson or other billionaire largesse, which is why he won the primary. Paul, Cruz, Santorum, etc. need more than just Christie hugging Obama to win, and I’m not sure any of them are serious enough to put together actual organizations to secure the nomination.

    I think a lot of smart GOP operatives would be lining up to work with Christie to set up an actual field organization, should he chose to run in 2016, because he’d be their best bet to win.

  50. 50
    jamick6000 says:

    it drives me up the wall when I see democrats sneer at working class white people. it makes us look anti-working class and elitist. plus it drives a chunk of white people to the republicans, just like how republicans dumping on latinos constantly got them to turn up in droves for Obama.

    I know we have a demographic advantage now, but why not go on offense and go after lower-middle-class whites?

  51. 51
    Todd says:

    I’m rooting for Rahm Emanuel to toss his hat in the ring to be the Dem nominee in 2016.

    I want Geithner to be his VP.

    Discuss…

  52. 52
    Chris says:

    @Ruckus:

    No we don’t. A white male Democrat would be just as much of a target as Obama is or Clinton would be, because he’d be a [insert hated group here]-lover, which is just as bad for them as actually being [insert hated group here]. We did have a white male Democrat for president less than twenty years ago, and the hatred for him was so deranged that they actually tried to impeach him for getting a blowjob.

    We do not need to keep pandering to white people with racial anxieties out the wazoo, and we certainly don’t need to abide by their framework of “only a white man can run America.” The people who would respond to that are, by an overwhelming majority, Republicans, and in the meantime we’d just be alienating the growing part of the population, which also happens to be our main source of electoral strength.

  53. 53
    gene108 says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Not reported much by the national media, but Christiecrats are real:

    But the Democrats who are taking the “courageous” step of endorsing Governor Chris Christie for another term are just burnishing his creds for President. He gets to trot every one of them out there in 2015 and 2016 and say, “See, we didn’t agree on every issue but they recognized what a great guy I am so endorsed me over their own.”

    This endorsement isn’t just for 2013, kids. It’s for good, even if you do wind up backing Hillary in 2016. Your going to be hard pressed to argue against Christie for President after glowingly sucking up to him in 2013. It just doesn’t work that way.

    http://www.bluejersey.com/diar.....ry-clinton

    Some of the more powerful New Jersey Democratic bosses (especially in South Jersey) have endorsed Christie over his Democratic opponent.

    TRENTON – Three days last week, Republican Gov. Christie appeared publicly – and glowingly – alongside Democrats.

    Tuesday alone, he collected endorsements in his reelection campaign from North Jersey’s dominant Democratic power broker, a Democratic state senator, and five Democratic mayors.

    The coup came Friday, when he lectured national leaders on “cooperation” – alongside none other than former President and Democratic hero Bill Clinton.

    The governor may be conservative enough to defund Planned Parenthood, reject a minimum-wage hike, and keep same-sex marriage out of his state. But many Democrats across New Jersey are deeply smitten with the guy.

    Why? Five reasons:

    Christie has cultivated close relationships with certain key Democrats through personal contact (texts, calls, meals) and, in some cases, has even refused to criticize their transgressions.

    He has millions of state tax dollars at his discretion, and pro-Christie Democrats have cited his generosity to their local governments as reason for their support.

    Politicians like winners, and Christie leads State Sen. Barbara Buono (D., Middlesex) by more than 30 points in the polls. A Rutgers Eagleton poll shows eight in 10 Democrats believe Christie will win in November.

    Many of the most powerful Democrats allied with Christie are fiscal conservatives who agree with him on education and union issues and are at odds on those issues with their own standard-bearer.

    Polls and interviews with Democrats indicate Christie has irresistible personal charms, including a sense of humor, tough-guy leadership style, and willingness to do the unexpected, like praise President Obama during Sandy.

    These five elements have coalesced to form Christie’s reelection strategy, and they exacerbate existing divisions within a state Democratic Party that at times seems on the verge of civil war.

    SNIP

    Yet in a state with a Democratic Legislature and with voters overwhelmingly Democratic in party affiliation, Christie has said he needed to work with Democratic leaders to get things done.

    That cooperation is best personified by Joseph “Joe D” DiVincenzo, the Essex County executive and a North Jersey power broker long allied with Christie.

    DiVincenzo leads a flank of the Democratic Party that has split with Buono and her more liberal ilk on policy issues and politics – like a recent feud over the next state party chairperson.

    In 2002, when DiVincenzo was running for Essex County executive and dogged by rumors of corruption, Christie – then U.S. attorney – wrote a letter that in effect exonerated him. The letter said DiVincenzo was not being investigated.

    DiVincenzo won the race, and the next year, he invited Christie to lecture his staff on ethics.

    They became friends. And even though DiVincenzo endorsed former Gov. Jon S. Corzine in 2009, the day after he won, Christie showed up in Essex County to meet with top Democrats.

    “He turned to me, and he embraced me,” DiVincenzo said in an interview Friday. “And he says, ‘OK, now let’s move forward. How we can work together?’ And I didn’t know whether he was kidding or what . . . but he was a man of his word.”

    http://www.philly.com/philly/n.....18581.html

    The MSM would have an orgasm to get this guy elected.

    He’s Reagan Reborn and will have the same impact on national politics that Reagan has had for 30 years.

    Anyone who writes Christie off is a fucking idiot.

    We need Hillary Clinton to run in 2016, because without someone with her name recognition, the Democrats will lose the White House and Obama’s legacy will be wiped out with Obamacare being repealed.

  54. 54
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    @aimai:

    The fundies were supposed to run screaming from Romney. They turned out. If Christie is the candidate the wingers will turn out for him too. Santorum, Cruz and Rubio may run, but they’re second stringers and Republican second stringers have a history of running piss poor campaigns. If Christie runs I’d guess that the big money will be behind him early on. The flame outs of Gingrich, Bachmann, Santorum, et al may have convinced the money people that the Tea Party types are a losing bet.

  55. 55
    Chris says:

    @gene108:

    Christie would certainly be their best candidate if he could get through the primary, and he’s certainly exactly the kind of candidate the MSM believes is rightly entitled to rule America. Just remember, the MSM isn’t necessarily the best gauge of how the public thinks.

  56. 56
    sublime33 says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate: ” If Christie is the candidate the wingers will turn out for him too.”

    But will Christie have the defense industry support? They prefer US Congressmen or VP’s over governors and this goes back to Eisenhower. Reagan and Bush Jr. were exceptions but they were trusted by the establishment. Romney was the only realistic alternative in a Stop Obama campaign. I can’t see Christie or Scott Walker or Rick Snyder getting more than tepid support in a primary campaign – especially if Jeb Bush or Paul Ryan runs.

  57. 57
    ChrisNYC says:

    @gene108: Wow! You should apply for a job at C-net.

    Christie is Reagan reborn? Reagan was toiling away at building the conservative movement and becoming its standard bearer for 15 years. There was also the little warmup of the 1976 GOP primary. Christie got the spot as US Attorney, his launching pad, by cozying up to Bush’s campaign apparatus. Christie is not about ushering in anything; he wants to be a celeb player in the system he was born into and hit the morning shows regularly. This is why Chris Christie appearances are heavy on Chris Christie personality and not much else.

    Now, Christie and Giuliani — there’s a comparison.

  58. 58
    Yatsuno says:

    @gene108: Nothing in what you said will get Christie through the wingnut gauntlet. And he has to pander to the racists and the Jeebus freaks or else he won’t make it out of 2015. Plus he is not in physical shape to handle the stresses of running let alone the Presidency. So unless those issues are surmounted, Christie ain’t gonna be President no matter how much he has NJ Dems snowblinded.

  59. 59
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    @sublime33:

    I still think that the Bush name is toxic. Paul Ryan is anti-charismatic and he was beaten up pretty badly in 2012. I’m not saying you’re wrong. I do believe that he can make nice with the defense. Moreover he has vigorously defended the Patriot Act, including the provision that would have allowed the government to monitor people’s library book check outs. The amount of money that security contractors have to throw around could be substantial.

  60. 60
    aimai says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate: Yes. “If” as the Spartans would say. He’s not going to make it through the primary. He won’t have Romney’s private wealth. He will have lots of backing from covert dems and New Jersey and perhaps NY types but I don’t think that will get him through the primary.

  61. 61
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @gene108: I don’t think Santorum, et. al. have the cajones to put together an actual field operation to secure the Presidential nomination.

    Rick Santorum doesn’t just have cajones, he has (IMHO) a true belief in himself and his cause that defies reality. He was one dumb remark about JFK from, if not winning the nomination, making the last few miles of the road a lot harder for Willard. He scared the ever-loving hell out the party establishment. As I recall, it was when he started topping the polls that the calls for Jebbie to step in and save the party got loudest.They knew Bachman and Cain were sideshows, they were worried they couldn’t stop Santorum without splitting the party. I think Rand Paul has a similar belief in himself and (less so) his cause, but not quite the goofy religious intensity of Santorum, who I think in his heart of hearts would want to make pre-Vatican II Catholocism the state religion. I’ve read that Ted Cruz didn’t expect to win the nomination for TX GOP Senate, he really wanted to build his statewide profile for a run at the Guv-ship

    as for Christie-crats, I’m sure they are real and a national crop would sprout like dandelions in May: Evan Bayh, Harold Ford, if HRC doesn’t run (or loses again) Ed Rendell would chase that cabinet appointment or ambassadorship he craves right down Lieberman Alley. Tweety and David Gregory are utterly infatuated with him, and they certainly wouldn’t be alone. And if Hillary did lose the Dem nomination, Bubba would concern troll himself in to knots to help Christie beat the New That One.

  62. 62
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    @aimai:

    I hope you’re right. If Christie is strong out of the gate and the tongue bath from the emmessem continues I think that the money will be there.

  63. 63
    aimai says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate: The problem with the money solution to the primary is that money doesn’t matter that much in the Republican primaries. You have to press the flesh and get the the churches on board or else you simply don’t have the infrastructure to get your people to the polls in each state that matters. Christie can have all the christie-crat/blue dog dem money he wants in NJ and NY but it won’t buy him votes in Texas or anywhere else when he needs it during the primary. If the teabaggers and the evangelicals are still feeling their oats and their ressentiment Christie won’t have a chance in the primaries. He’ll piss them off in no time and they will take their toys and go home. I’d also like to point out that the same people that Christie appeals to–Hillary appeals to. Maybe christie seems like a “republican you can do business with” for some democratic voters but if you don’t have to do business with a republican why would you? So he loses that “cross over appeal” once he has to run against an actual dem.

  64. 64
    Ruckus says:

    @Chris:
    I think you are right as well.
    My thought is that we have to get in power in such a way that we don’t piss off the bigots. How do we thread the needle to get a liberal elected? As much as he may have been more liberal than his opposition, Clinton did many things that were not very liberal and screwed us royally and few things that were liberal. Look at him today. My point isn’t that electing a white male liberal is right, it is that it will be less objectionable, removing a large piece of conservative bullshit. They did have to go after him for a blowjob because they had nothing else. With Obama they don’t even have that and it is much worse. Because of the bigotry. Would it be the same level different subjects if the current dem pres was white? I don’t know. I would hate to find a good person of any color/gender and not elect them based on those reasons but I’m not in the camp that has to be convinced. Neither are you. But many are. Way too many. How do we change that? Clinton gave us DADT, a horrible law. Was it necessary to take this as a step or should he have tried to go all the way? I don’t think he could have gotten any thing better passed. And that’s a big part of the problem. We have to change the culture and the climate in this country and the neanderthals will not change with a black man nor a woman in power. They will and have dug in deeper. They may not change in any event but in their minds we have done the worst thing possible.

  65. 65
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate: I think Wall St is Christie’s for the asking, and he has the kind of secular persona that would appeal to Silicon Valley types, Zuckerberg’s first foray into politics was a high profile fundraiser for CC (I think MZ has some hard core right wing political advisors, the ones who turned his “pro-immigration” campaign into a pro-Keystone campaign). He mocked the state leges that were passing anti-Sharia-law laws, but I’m sure Bibi would be happy to jet over to reassure Sheldon Adelson. Christie’s dangers are the primary and his own thin-skin and (I believe) misogyny. Skipping the Jeebus fest for the Bill Clinton Ego-fest (again, IMHO) means he’s either given up on the White House, or he has a big enough ego to think he can poke the beast and win the nomination in spite of them.

  66. 66
    AxelFoley says:

    @sublime33:

    The Republicans have successfully sold the white working middle class voters that “at least you are better than the blacks/Hispanics/gays/Muslims”. So any legislation that hurts these “lower castes” is a win for Republicans and these voters. What they haven’t figured out is that just because the “lower castes” has something taken away, it isn’t going into the working class pockets. It is going straight to the top 1%. So while they can nod their head and say “ditto” when someone says these “underclass” are dependent on government, their class is just as dependent on the 1% providing them jobs and a speed pass to cut to the front of the lines for health care and maybe education. And the 1% can’t be voted out of office

    The white working middle class is the only thing keeping the GOP alive. If it weren’t for the fact that this group is the largest group in the US and they’re holding everyone else back as a result of their voting overwhelmingly for the GOP mostly on wedge issues, we would be so much further ahead than where we are now as a country and society.

  67. 67

    @Chris: Great post, great point. The sooner the mindset of ‘only white males can run the country’ (along with it’s collary ‘only white Americans are Real Americans’) dies in either a fire or a woodchiper, the better off America will be.

  68. 68
    Yatsuno says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): As always, the Emissary is wise. It is far past time for the straight white male dominance structure to fall by the wayside. We could be a great diverse country if we just embraced our differences and respected them.

  69. 69
    chopper says:

    @cmorenc:

    yep.

    look, clinton in 92 didn’t have to deal with a huge, powerful and monolithic liberal movement that had a lock on his party. the crazy fuckers in the GOP aren’t going anywhere, they’re actually getting crazier. and christie isn’t half as smart and shrewd a politician as bill was, and he will have to get past those crazy right wing d-bags to go anywhere, and then he’ll have to go up against hillary.

  70. 70
    Ruckus says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant):
    So how do we change the mindset? The people with that mindset are not going to be convinced by person of color or by a woman. They just aren’t. And the people convinced, you, Chris, me, and most of the people here never needed convincing or have been convinced already. How do we convince the diehards? Or do we wait for them to die off which they will not all do as it is not strictly generational. Are you saying we shouldn’t try that we should just move on? We did that and it isn’t working. Do we do that again and again because being white is the problem?

  71. 71
    NickT says:

    @Chris:

    I rise to support the motion: “No more White Daddies By Default as presidents”.

  72. 72
    pokeyblow says:

    @Yatsuno: That’s an incredibly sweet sentiment, coming from a place where any thinking outside a certain strict and convoluted orthodoxy will get you called all kinds of names.

  73. 73
    Ruckus says:

    @Yatsuno:

    And everyone else. I agree that white males shouldn’t have the upper hand, be in charge of everything, be the ruling class. But I don’t and none of you need convincing of that. And the voters that need that convincint will not listen to anyone not a white male. Maybe they will in a generation or two.
    I think the entire subject needs to be discussed and openly but at the same time we have to govern and that is almost impossible to do with such irrational hate of the president. I would absolutely love to be wrong here. But bigots are irrational and trying to convince them of that almost takes irrationality. Just being right isn’t enough.

  74. 74
    Yatsuno says:

    @Ruckus: Fear is a very difficult emotion to release. But the person holding the fear has to choose to release it. Because racism is really based in that fear, and it takes work. But we can’t just throw our hands up and say it’s impossible. Otherwise why even bother to hold the progress we’ve made up to now?

  75. 75
    chopper says:

    @Jennifer:

    when this happens the crazies will win out. this is the GOP we’re talking about – the only reason mitt walked away with the nom last time is because he had the most money to spend by far. everybody else on stage was a fucking loon.

  76. 76
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Chris Christie is The Real Deal. He’s a maverick with a true bipartisan spirit. He has crossover appeal with the olds and the youths. We need a Big Governor to take on Big Government. He’ll lap the field while the band plays, just like Guiliani did.

  77. 77
    Chris says:

    @Ruckus:

    Less objectionable to who? White men? That demographic is getting smaller and smaller as the years go by – it’s already a different country than the one Clinton had to govern. And if you’re looking to “change the climate” of the country, you’re not going to do it with repeated concessions to the old climate. The plain fact is, overcoming the objections of white voters is becoming less and less important as time goes by, because they simply don’t have the electoral clout they used to have. And the less it’s necessary to rely on people with racial hangups out the wazoo who’ll bolt at the first sign of something that makes them uncomfortable, the more stable the coalition will be.

  78. 78
    Chris says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I think Wall St is Christie’s for the asking

    Yeah, I think the money guys, and the elites in general, will rally to him over most of his competition. The only question is whether that’ll be enough to get him through the primary.

  79. 79
    chopper says:

    @gene108:

    He’s Reagan Reborn and will have the same impact on national politics that Reagan has had for 30 years.

    you need to get off the goofballs, son.

  80. 80
    Shalimar says:

    @Yatsuno: If Christie wins the Republican nomination, it will be for one reason: the man is a complete asshole. Their primary voters love it when you’re a dick to anyone they hate. They can forgive anything else.

  81. 81
    Yatsuno says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead: BINGO!!!

    (Oh wait…)

  82. 82
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Ruckus: How do we convince the diehards?

    Romney won white women, I don’t think the 2016 Republican will, especially against Hillary. I’m far from a Hillbot and I’m at best ambivalent about Bubba, and I never believe in inevitability, but I do think that, all things considered, Hillary is a very strong general election candidate. Not only because of women’s votes, but the Clinton era is now viewed with nostalgia by people who voted for Bush and were disappointed (and still aren’t quite sure whether or not Saddam was involved in 9/11), and maybe even voted for Obama but were skeptical. All the bullshit will come up again, and some of it will stick, and her approval ratings will go down, but I don’t think it will stick as much, not least because the Villagers who saw the Clintons as those vulgar people from Arkansas now see them as old pros who know how Washington works, not like that aloof and arrogant Obama. Fifteen years ago Tweety was cheerleading for Tom Delay as the rage-aholic garden gnome was ranting about “secret evidence” to impeach Clinton, now he wonders why Obama can’t be more like Bubba.

  83. 83
    Thoughtcrime says:

    I’m reminded of this Spinal Tap dialog:

    David St. Hubbins: We say, “Love your brother.” We don’t say it really, but…

    Nigel Tufnel: We don’t literally say it.

    David St. Hubbins: No, we don’t say it.

    Nigel Tufnel: We don’t really, literally mean it.

    David St. Hubbins: No, we don’t believe it either, but…

    Nigel Tufnel: But we’re not racists.

    David St. Hubbins: But that message should be clear, anyway.

    Nigel Tufnel: We’re anything but racists.

  84. 84

    @Ruckus: You don’t win over bigots by giving in to them. Proposing that the only means of advancing diversity is to do so with a white male face is, well, contraindication at best.

  85. 85
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead: We need a Big Governor to take on Big Government.

    You need to patent that, or something. Dana Milbank and Jennifer Rubin will owe you some serious royalties. And don’t let Tom Friedman cheat you when he rephrases it in the form of a question.

  86. 86
    Yatsuno says:

    @Shalimar: He definitely has the asshole factor working in his favour. He still needs to suck up to teh fetus protectors and the Jeebus freaks or he’ll have zero chance getting the Southerners to go along with him. They need to have zero questions about his faith and membership in their Tribe, and hugging THAT ONE won’t help.

  87. 87
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Meh, being ripped off comes with the territory when you are a Thought Leader.

  88. 88
    Ruckus says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    Like I stated, I’d love to be wrong. But we need this discussion in this country. We had a war over it, and won. Maybe everyone else is right, we’ve appeased the racists for over a hundred and fifty years and gotten nowhere or even gone down hill. As I also stated I would just hate to find a good person and not elect them because of their color or gender. We elected Obama and in many peoples minds, in spite of his color and he has proven to be a good president. We were right. But. His color has once again openly divided the country. My question and fear is that if we elect another person of color or a woman we will tear the country even farther apart. Maybe that’s the only way to move forward. Maybe I’m totally wrong. Won’t be the first time.

  89. 89
    Yatsuno says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Lucky duck filled his wingnut bingo card on his first go. Jellin’ just a wee bit here.

  90. 90
    aimai says:

    @Ruckus: No, we won’t tear this country further apart. The people who are wandering off into the wilderness are not coming back–not for a white president and not for a male white president. They are soaked in spite and hysteria up to their eyeballs and at this point just being a Democrat is enough to make any of our candidates “the enemy.” These people are just going to die off. Literally die off. And thus our problems with them will end. And not before.

  91. 91
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    I think Americans will be so tired of a skinny black guy they’ll be ready to elect a fat white guy.

  92. 92
    Jewish Steel says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    Taft.0, motherfuckers! Big men, big ideas. I’m on board.

  93. 93

    @Ruckus: Also, the people with that mindset barely view me a human, let alone American. As a black man, I can be viewed as not a REAL AMERICAN even though my life has been, more or less, a textbook example of the American dream. Went to school, good grades, sports, college, military career, second career, Never seen the inside of a police station. In their minds, none of that matters. As such I am not much interested in convincing them of a damned thing. I’m interested in BEATING them, again and again. THAT is the only way they will learn, if at all.

  94. 94
    Yatsuno says:

    @aimai: It is amazing to me how much the kids by and large just do. not. care. about race, sexual orientation, ethnicity, whatever. They’ve been living diversity all their lives and it’s their normal. It would be so difficult to put that genie back in the bottle that the change is happening. And that has the old racists scared more than anything.

  95. 95
    Chris says:

    @Ruckus:

    I take issue with the notion that his color has divided the country. It hasn’t helped, that’s for sure; it’s probably made things worse; but the division over the racial issue has been in the works for fifty years, as has the way the parties aligned on opposite sides of that question. The number of voters who care about the distinction between “[deleted]” and “[deleted]-lover,” or would be fooled by such a distinction, isn’t that high, and it’s only gotten smaller with time; at this point, pretty much everyone understands that Democrats are the party that favors These People, and Republicans are the one that doesn’t.

  96. 96
    TCG says:

    Re: Fear of Chris Christie

    Um, didn’t the white male candidate that Wall Street backed that the media kept propping up lose the last time?

    Besides after he losses weight, people will see how short he is.

  97. 97
    Ruckus says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant):
    Want to run for president?
    I haven’t seen anyone yet that I’d like to vote for the next president. Not a white man, nor a woman just not anyone. I had reservations about Hillary a few years ago and they really haven’t diminished. In fact they have intensified due to her age.
    I’m looking for a strong liberal. Full stop. I don’t care what color or sex they are, I do think that they should be more Obama’s age range than Hillary’s, or mine.

  98. 98
    aimai says:

    @Chris: Slight correction: racial divisions have been bedeviling us since…400 years but especially since the Civil War. White power and white political ascendancy kept that fact on the periphery of the white experience but there just isn’t enough of the white vote left to make it work anymore.

  99. 99
    Ruckus says:

    @aimai:
    If you all think that it doesn’t matter who we elect on any other basis than quality of the person then lets find and elect a very strong liberal, not another centrist. We’ve been going downhill towards the conservative direction for a while now, time to hit reverse quite a bit harder.

  100. 100
    Yatsuno says:

    @Ruckus: Totally on board with this. Who do you have in mind?

  101. 101
    gene108 says:

    @chopper:

    I really think Christie can cement this country’s right-ward shift, since Reagan, if he is elected President in 2016. He will energize the conservatives and delight the moderates, because he can deliver the conservative message of “greed is good” in a non-Southern evangelical wrapper.

    Any liberal economic measures like better anti-poverty programs or things to address income inequality will be impossible to even mention.

    I’m living in a state that went for Obama in 2012 by about 15% and will re-elect Christie in a cake walk, with something like 60%-70% of the vote.

    @chopper:

    look, clinton in 92 didn’t have to deal with a huge, powerful and monolithic liberal movement that had a lock on his party. the crazy fuckers in the GOP aren’t going anywhere, they’re actually getting crazier

    The dividing line in 2016 will be Christie’s response to Obamacare. NJ is implementing statewide exchanges. I don’t see Republicans getting off the repeal Obamacare wagon, even after it goes into effect in 2014.

    If he can thread that needle, I don’t see much that’s going to hold him back with the crazies.

    He’s against gay marriage, vetoing a gay marriage bill.

    He’s anti-abortion and always has been.

    He’s anti-poor.

    He cut taxes for millionaires and balanced the books by slashing education spending.

    There’s not a lot for the crazies to really object to, other than he wasn’t mean to Obama and NJ is implementing Obamacare.

  102. 102
    Ruckus says:

    @Yatsuno:
    As I answered Ben at #97, I got nothing.
    I feel that as liberals we have been wandering in the dark for a while. Some thought Bill Clinton was a liberal. Relative to some other politicians sure he was but purely on his views, not so much. Pretty much any politician I can think of today falls into that group. Maybe Henry Waxman but I think he’d be out of his element. Grayson needs a bit more polish and a thicker skin. Frankin seems to have played things a bit too close to the vest to rate in my book. Gillibrand sounds like she might be OK, haven’t heard enough.

  103. 103
    Yatsuno says:

    @gene108: Your last two points are enough. The wingnuts tolerate no heresy. Their candidate must be a Pure True Conservative that must defeat any sign of liberalism at all times. Christie cooperating with THAT ONE in both Sandy clean-up and that ebil socialist healthcare is grounds for exile from the Tribe. Just ask Ewick son of Ewick.

  104. 104
    MattR says:

    @Shalimar:

    If Christie wins the Republican nomination, it will be for one reason: the man is a complete asshole. Their primary voters love it when you’re a dick to anyone they hate. They can forgive anything else.

    Yet Rudy Giuliani’s candidacy crashed and burned. I think Christie’s will go the same way, partially because while both can be dicks to those the primary voters hate they can’t resist being a dick to others whom the primary voters support.

  105. 105
    Ben Cisco says:

    @Ruckus:

    Want to run for president?

    Heh. I’d never survive the process. Politicians have to swallow a lot of sh*t; I’ve NEVER been good with that.

  106. 106
    Ruckus says:

    @MattR:
    Being a total asshole must be a pretty hard needle to thread.

  107. 107
    Ruckus says:

    @Ben Cisco:
    Hell that’s one of the things I’m looking for. I don’t want you to swallow a lot of shit I want you to push it out of the way.

  108. 108
    Gex says:

    I just don’t see how they can. They have specifically made government spending and government programs synonymous with giving to the browns. The teabaggers held up signs that they wanted government out of their Medicare. There’s no way to sell these people on government programs without those people thinking all that money is going to browns because they have made that the gospel truth to their base, i.e. white working class voters.

    They can talk about how these things help their voters. It won’t matter one lick if those voters think these things will help blah people.

  109. 109
    MattR says:

    @Ruckus: I think one problem we face is that so many former Republicans have joined the party without really changing their political positions that any truly liberal candidate will have a tough time getting enough of their support to survive the primaries.

    @Ruckus: Yeah. It is a tough life.

  110. 110
    Ruckus says:

    @MattR:
    I hadn’t thought about in the specific terms of recent people coming over to the left but that was the basis for my comments today.
    I see we have three big problems in this country.
    1. Racism. It is changing and for the better. How long will it take for it to be a minor issue? Can we parlay this into changing direction on other problems or is it a unique situation?
    2. Religion. Conservatives used the southern strategy to win races. Part of that was using the evangelical side of religions and giving them power in politics. This has proven, like all conservative issues to be a huge problem.
    3. Money. More specifically the inequality of the disbursement of wealth in this country. It has mostly killed the middle class which will kill the country if we let it.

  111. 111
    The Other Chuck says:

    @jamick6000:

    it drives me up the wall when I see democrats sneer at working class white people.

    It chaps me even more to see “working class” used as a blanket excuse for bigotry, misogynism, anti-intellectualism, and all-around assholery. Even with the anti-intellectualism, while the blue collar folks have always given some pushback against the ivory tower types, they weren’t always against the very idea of science itself.

    And there are still a lot of good decent people in the working class. Be nice if they voted their interests now and then.

  112. 112
    Maude says:

    @Yatsuno:
    Exactly. Christie is not seen as loyal to the GOP.
    It is way to early to even think about 2016. Things change.

  113. 113
    JoyfulA says:

    @gene108: The GOP base will object to his appointment of a Muslim judge to the NJ Supreme Court.

    I object to his squandering state money on a bankrupt luxury casino and on a white elephant of a shopping-entertainment-ski slope-etc. complex.

  114. 114
    Chris says:

    @The Other Chuck:

    And there are still a lot of good decent people in the working class. Be nice if they voted their interests now and then.

    Oh, I think a lot of the good and decent ones do. The white working class doesn’t tend to be as solidly Republican as the white middle class – particularly outside of the South.

  115. 115
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Short Bus Bully: Aren’t the primaries rightwing cesspools? You’re talking about Repub primaries where everyone from Cain to Bachmann to Perry to Gingrich to Santorum* rose and fell until they settled on the Robot. Not sure if Christie is rightwing enough to win the primaries, but perhaps by 2016, the T’Baggers won’t have so much influence.

    *Not to mention Donald Trump’s rise in the polls in April 2011.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new.....e-1.112460.

  116. 116
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @feebog: If immigration reform is passed with substantial Republican support, I could see 40%+ Latino votes going for Republicans in 2016, but you’re right about the AA vote. I can see no circumstance where 10%+ vote Republican in 2016, especially if Secretary Clinton runs.

  117. 117
    Chris says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Well, if McCain and Romney could make it through, even though the base by and large viewed them as moderates, Christie might be able to as well. On the other hand, having lost the presidency with two “moderates” in a row, their rallying cry in 2016 might just be “no more moderates!”

  118. 118
    rikyrah says:

    @Ruckus:

    is color has once again openly divided the country. My question and fear is that if we elect another person of color or a woman we will tear the country even farther apart. Maybe that’s the only way to move forward. Maybe I’m totally wrong. Won’t be the first time.

    Bullshyt.

    We were always divided.

    tired of coddling those mofos.

    being a recipient of their bullshyt, I say fuck all those White folks clinging to Whiteness and voting against their best economic interests.

    let their asses be left behind.

    moving forward is always painful.

    they bought into the bullshyt of ‘ at least you’re not a nigger’

    let ’em choke on it.

  119. 119
    rikyrah says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant):

    Also, the people with that mindset barely view me a human, let alone American. As a black man, I can be viewed as not a REAL AMERICAN even though my life has been, more or less, a textbook example of the American dream. Went to school, good grades, sports, college, military career, second career, Never seen the inside of a police station. In their minds, none of that matters. As such I am not much interested in convincing them of a damned thing. I’m interested in BEATING them, again and again. THAT is the only way they will learn, if at all.

    AMEN my Brotha.

    AMEN!!

  120. 120
    steve says:

    Douthat and Salam’s essay has much to say about “pro-family” tax reform — they even flirt with endorsing wage subsidies and Romneycare —

    Who gives a shit what these two think? I’m in the working poor. Full time job, can’t afford shit, and the GOP here in Florida is adamant about me not getting healthcare via obamacare. That’s who the GOP is. Every poor white person that votes for the GOP is an idiot.

  121. 121
    gene108 says:

    I object to his squandering state money on a bankrupt luxury casino and on a white elephant of a shopping-entertainment-ski slope-etc. complex.

    Yet none of that seems to dent his popularity. There’s very little Christie has accomplished as governor, but the good people of NJ still love him.

    Go figure.

  122. 122
    gene108 says:

    @JoyfulA:

    Yet none of that seems to dent his popularity. There’s very little Christie has accomplished as governor, but the good people of NJ still love him.

    Go figure.

    EDIT: And I think Americans would love him as President for accomplishing less.

  123. 123
    AHH onna Droid says:

    @Ruckus: The largest demo in tge US is now millennials and having Obama be president is normal to them. Re women, check out all the women Obama nominated and appointed.

    It does get better.

  124. 124
    Ruckus says:

    @rikyrah:
    Can we just boil it down to I fell down this morning and hit my head?
    I can’t and don’t disagree with anything said against me today for a stupid idea. I hope I made that clear later on. I understand racial decisiveness has been going on in the US for centuries, I was trying to point out that electing Obama has brought the racist scum to the forefront again, although it’s not like they ever went away.

    So. Sorry for suggesting a stupid idea.

  125. 125

    @Ruckus:

    I understand racial decisiveness has been going on in the US for centuries, I was trying to point out that electing Obama has brought the racist scum to the forefront again, although it’s not like they ever went away.

    With this, you have reached the truth, and the point. They never went away. Some never will. They must be left to their fate, and we must win without them. From now on.

    No worries.

  126. 126
    AHH onna Droid says:

    @jamick6000: We are gping after them. In my experience there is a marked gender divide. Also, too, its hard to even have a conversation with a limbaigh belieber, never mind dissuafe him from voting for his mirage.

  127. 127
    tofubo says:

    their appeal has not changed, only the tag lines

    it’s gone from

    a: compassionate conservatism
    b: i feel your pain, i’m just not going to do anything about it
    c: i got mine, fuck you

    it will not get any better, no matter how they try to message it

  128. 128
    Ruckus says:

    @AHH onna Droid:
    Having been a white guy my whole life and having worked and lived around mostly other white guys has exposed me to many racist white guys. I would like to see in my lifetime, some of them actually come to their senses. That’s probably a pipe dream. I acknowledge that the US is better from a racial standpoint and possibly from a homophobic standpoint. But there is a very long way to go. Do we just have to wait it out? Can we do more? I obviously don’t have any answers.

  129. 129

    Greed isn’t really what the GOP preaches they are much better at understanding the human bias toward envy and jealousy and using it in a way that gave them a political advantage. The Southern Stratgey was really pretty simple, wasn’t it?

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