Have Another…

Open thread. It’s fucking HOT here today — just under 90 F with a “feels like” of 102 and 75% humidity. Sensible people are staying indoors.


My hens are taking dust baths in the shadiest part of their run. Poor critters. I’d let them inside to cool off if they wouldn’t crap all over everything and get eaten by the dogs.

113 replies
  1. 1
    Forum Transmitted Disease says:

    My only experience with chickens was in a climate where “hot” was about 70 degrees. They come from the tropics originally, do they not?

  2. 2
    Mike E says:

    Poor biddies!

    We had 97° Thur until a Derecho raced through and knocked the temp down 20°+; it unfortunately knocked down an ass-ton of really big trees, also. Too.

  3. 3
    Persia says:

    It’s not too bad out here today, but we deserved a good day. It’s rained for about a week straight. Even as it is, the cats got too hot and had to go indoors.

  4. 4
    slag says:

    Can’t you shade them up some more? Maybe put a little pool out there? Or are chickens they type of animal that would drown in an inch of water?

  5. 5
    gogol's wife says:


    Same here. I am really enjoying it, even though I’m at a computer all day (looking out the window on a beautiful scene). But there’ll be a party tonight so that helps.

  6. 6
    Mike E says:

    @Forum Transmitted Disease: They originate from Africa, and are technically pheasants.

  7. 7
    scav says:

    Poor adult eggs — last time we read about them weren’t they drowning under a torrential cloudburst? Extreme weather barometers, check condition of grumpy fowl.

  8. 8
    mk3872 says:

    If Greenwald and Snowden are so “pure” and just “truth seekers” … Why won’t they come clean with the truth about the “servers” that the NSA uses @ Microsoft, Google, etc.?

    The Greenwald clan lied about the NSA having “direct access” and still these “truth seekers” can’t or won’t tell the truth.

  9. 9
    Ultraviolet Thunder says:

    Nice weather here in Detroit but every time I go outdoors I start sneezing. Gotta do yard work today, including mowing which is a worst case scenario for pollen sufferers. Luckily I have a dust mask that will reduce the irritants.

  10. 10
    kindness says:

    House training birds is so messy. And pointless as you can not house train a bird. They go when they want to go and don’t care where it is.

    Your pups would be very entertained….for a short while.

    @slag: Chickens would crap all over the ‘pool’. Chickens will crap everywhere they can.

  11. 11
    Amir Khalid says:

    That sounds more or less like regular Malaysian weather, which the chickens here get through just fine. (Maybe they do grumble about the heat in a chicken fashion, but I wouldn’t really know.) Short of getting the hens indoors, are you working on a plan to help them cool off — table fans, golf umbrellas, etc.?

  12. 12
    gbear says:

    75f, gray and muggy in the Twin Cities. Not hot, but you start sweating the moment you do anything. I ran a few errands this morning, washing clothes now, and don’t really plan on anything other than being a lazy loafer for the rest of the day.We may or may not get hit by thunderstorms this evening; It’s hard to tell which way they’ll go.

  13. 13
    Ultraviolet Thunder says:


    I worked in Detroit years ago for 18 months. I’ve always lived in the suburbs. There’s a big difference.
    Yeah, Detroit’s creditors are going to get hosed one way or another. As will the unions, residents, city employees and pretty much everyone else. There are as many theories on this as there are residents in teh greater Detroit area. But they all boil down to: Hosed.

    ETA: For what we pay in annual property taxes in our town I could buy a bigger house in the city of Detroit. But I don’t. Nobody does except the guy who’s buying whole neighborhoods, razing them and planting tree farms.

  14. 14

    My girlfriend, who used to have chickens, is getting that egg-laying look in her eyes again. She’s spent the morning looking over Craig’s list at local chicken coop makers. You’re allowed up to three hens within the Portland city limits.

  15. 15
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Amir Khalid: They have plenty of shade, and I keep some gallon jugs full of ice in the freezer and set them out in the coop when it gets really hot. I also make sure their water is cool and have even put out a fan (outside the fence so they won’t stick their beaks in the blades) if the air is still, but no need today since it’s breezy.

  16. 16
    Amir Khalid says:

    I grew up a town kid, so I never got around to learning Chicken. My command of Cat, on the other hand, is not too bad.

    Chickens would crap all over the ‘pool’. Chickens will crap everywhere they can.

    I know: Chicken diapers!

  17. 17
    Yatsuno says:

    @slag: Ever hear the phrase “mad as an old wet hen?” There a reason for that. Chickens do not use water to cool. They make spaces in their feathers to catch breezes.

  18. 18
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Bob In Portland: Three hens would really be enough. We have seven, and they lay three dozen eggs a week — far more than we could possibly consume. We share with family and neighbors, though, so it’s all good.

  19. 19
    debit says:

    @gbear: I was dripping sweat just doing some laundry. Jumped in the shower, changed into my bike clothes and went for a nice fifteen mile ride to work. I’m totally cool and comfortable now.

    I actually do hope it rains by the time I head home. I know it makes me sound like a bitch, but it’s the only thing that clears the Greenway of those fucking rollerbladers.

  20. 20
    burnspbesq says:


    Truth is the first casualty when there’s an agenda to be advanced.

  21. 21
    Ultraviolet Thunder says:


    And the tax base is getting smaller and smaller, right? I read somewhere that blocks and blocks of abandoned homes have been torn down, ostensibly for agricultural and park land.

    Yes, it’s amazing. Detroit is down 60% from its peak population. maybe more. There are many homes that will never be lived in again. Large swathes of residential land has been cleared and there are still 10s of 1000s more buildings to raze. It’s kind of unprecedented.

    ETA: most of the cleared land is still vacant. But a big patch was sold to the tree farmer I referred to. And of course there’s a scandal about that because it’s Detroit and corruption clings to everything the city government does.

  22. 22
    Maude says:

    It’s nice today.
    A few weeks ago we has a string of hot awful muggy days.
    Betty, I feel for you.
    Chickens are okay in heat. They complain about every tiny little thing.
    Have to go and get two air conditions this week. They will have to be delivered. I can’t carry them.

  23. 23
    hildebrand says:

    It was in the upper 80’s here in Florence today, at least we had a breeze. It is supposed to hit 90 tomorrow – between that and the massed horde of perspiring tourists, sounds like a good day to stay inside, drink chilled prosecco, and get more research done.

  24. 24
    👽 Martin says:

    @Amir Khalid: You know, it’s a short trip for us in the US. We already have something like that for dogs. Just need to scale and adapt it for chickens.

  25. 25
    slag says:

    @Yatsuno: Yeah. I just thought they might use it to cool their tootsies.

  26. 26
    becca says:

    We have a code orange on air quality today. Weeds can relax for a spell.

    Anyway, poor Benbestdoginthewholeworld has an E-collar on so he won’t lick his re-sutured wound. Who knew a saw seed could do such damage?

    Now he’s fighting the tranq I gave him, wobbling around catching the collar on everything and looking so forlorn.

    This is going to be a looonngg 10 days.

  27. 27
    lamh36 says:

    I am officially a Blu-Ray Disc convert. Shit it’s gonna take a lot of time & money to get all my DVDS on BluRay. don’t they have a Blu-ray clearinghouse like the used to have for CD?
    anyway I’m watching Hellboy 2: Golden Army until it’s time for Superman!

    oh and For all of the Hellboy fan club members at BJ lets hope Perlman can make this happen!


  28. 28
    James E. Powell says:

    It was so hot that I saw a dog chasing a cat and they were both walking.

  29. 29
    Mnemosyne says:

    Happy Birfday to ME! We’re going to a screening of Monsters University and then heading down to Anaheim for a They Might Be Giants concert at House of Blues.

    My mom sent an e-card that terrorized poor Charlotte — she thought the sound of the “Happy Birthday” meowing kittens was coming from inside the house!

  30. 30
    Amir Khalid says:

    I’m kind of curious myself to see what Hellboy Jr. looks like.

  31. 31
    different-church-lady says:

    I’d let them inside to cool off if they wouldn’t crap all over everything and get eaten by the dogs.

    Yeah, I’ve been to parties like that…

  32. 32
    James E. Powell says:


    I’m not sure what I like more, the almost parodic use of scare quotes or the use of the word “clan” to refer to unidentified people. This is good. I heard in the voice of Matt Foley.

  33. 33
    MomSense says:

    Just came in from the garden. Peonies and roses and irises–oh my!

  34. 34
    The Friendly Libertarian says:

    Detroit is the future of the United States: total collapse into bankruptcy and political failure.

  35. 35
    lamh36 says:

    @Mnemosyne: Monsters U is one of the movies I can’t wait to see, along with Superman, The Wolverine, Despicable Me and The Heat.

    BTW, Iknow it’s just the 2nd day, but has anyone seen Superman yet? I hear despite the critics, that moviegoers love it. BTB, this is the first time I’ve realized how much I really enjoyed Roger Eberts reviews. I’d love to have read what he would have thought of Superman.

  36. 36
    Emma says:

    I went to do some grocery shopping and cut my hair. House-to-car-to-store-to-car-to-house. It is so flaming hot out there I nearly had sunstroke.

  37. 37
    lamh36 says:

    @Amir Khalid: Jrs! Liz said twins at end of last movie

    BTW, Ron Perlman is pushing 70!!!!!!!

  38. 38
    Amir Khalid says:

    I have, and I recommend it.

  39. 39
    Maude says:

    They were beautiful around here this spring.
    Ants love Peonies. The Hydrangeas are coming into bloom nicely.
    We’re at annual season now until late August.
    Halloween and Mums start August 31.

  40. 40
    aimai says:

    I’m in Paris. I know–don’t hate me!– Last time–a couple of years ago–it was in the 90’s most days. This time? A crisp 65 with clouds alternating with sun. Its incredibly different. Last time we could hardly drag ourselves from thing to thing. This time the light and the weather all come together to produce something extraordinary, like effervescence in the blood.

  41. 41
    elmo says:

    It’s truly delightful here in NoVa – 70s and breezy, with occasional fluffy white clouds scudding across a perfect sky. Ribs are braising outside in a pan on the Weber, and I made tuna sandwiches and lemonade for lunch.

    Never mind that the grass is waist-high, I have no clean underwear or work clothes, and I’m moving in 30 days. I’m sitting outside enjoying the weather.

  42. 42
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @lamh36: A couple of us have seen Man of Steel. I thought there were a lot of good elements that just never quite coalesced into a good story. The individual elements are fun, though.

  43. 43
    Maude says:

    Do they still have the ceremony at the tomb of the unknown soldier? I don’t remember what it’s called.

  44. 44
    slag says:

    @The Friendly Libertarian: Well, then, you’ll finally be in your happy place. Until that time, your joy will just have to come from your weekly trips to Survivalist Depot. Some day..some day…

  45. 45
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Mnemosyne: Happy birfday! Let us know how Monsters is. I loved Monsters Inc.

  46. 46
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Ultraviolet Thunder: I saw a fascinating, haunting and strangely beautiful photo essay in a magazine (can’t remember which one) about the ruins of Detroit. I also heard a piece on NPR about several people from overseas who came to document it, as an urban collapse on that scale (in the absence of a war or other calamity, of course) is unusual if not unprecedented.

    If I recall correctly, the photo essay claimed a police precinct was pretty much just shut down and abandoned with all the evidence files, etc., still there. WTF.

  47. 47
    Kropadope says:

    @The Friendly Libertarian:
    Once you and your libertarian (read: poorly disguised Republican) cult are done instituting your inverse totalitarianism, perhaps….

  48. 48
    Betty Cracker says:

    @slag: Why do wingnuts get such a boner over the prospect of societal collapse? I know a number of preppers who positively radiate excitement when discussing how they’ll use their stocks of shotgun shells for currency and get to shoot anyone they don’t know on sight come the apocalypse. Of course, if society collapses, I plan to lure them into humane traps and take all their shit, but they don’t know that…

  49. 49
    chanster says:

    @Mnemosyne: Sounds like a fun birthday. Just don’t do anything too crazy!

  50. 50
    NickT says:


    Happy whatever birthday it is.

  51. 51
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    Saw a wingnut post this link (Warning: It goes to theblaze.com and is about El Rushbo), and man, is it funny. To summarize for those who don’t want to get out of the boat:

    Rush says the GOP wants to “pass amnesty and create millions of Democrats” because it is “embarrassed by its base.” Which isn’t the craziest thing Rush has said, because, let’s face it, the GOP base is pretty damn embarrassing.

    But as always, the real action is in the comments, where one of the first commenters said this:


    (Just to clarify, the voter registration form is meant to be a threat that they quit the GOP if there is no impeachment, etc.)

    And there were so many hosannahs and so much derp and tinfoil headgear and “we are the real victims of everything.” And I laughed.

  52. 52
    Scott S. says:

    @The Friendly Libertarian: Better get your ticket to glorious freedom-stuffed China as soon as you can!

  53. 53
    The Other Chuck says:

    @Betty Cracker: Because they hate society and want to see it collapse so it can be remade in accordance with their own beliefs. In this, I really do have to say “both sides do it”, because I see the same sort of thing coming out of the extreme left. It’s just that (a) it usually doesn’t seem to involve quite so many violence fantasies, just a lot of Marxist Utopia nonsense, and (b) I don’t see any evidence of this going mainstream on the left, rather unlike the screeching increasingly apocalypse-driven right.

  54. 54
    Ultraviolet Thunder says:


    There are a lot of smaller mill towns in New England that are in similar shape, but the order of magnitude in Detroit… wow! What was the peak population, two-millionish?

    2 million in 1950. Steadily downward after the ’67 riots. It’s a long story, and 100% tragic. Lots of causes, extensively documented. Pretty much, it just sucks to have to live there for most of the people.
    Nobody knows what Detroit will look like in 30 years. No way to even guess.

  55. 55
    Poopyman says:

    @MomSense: Peonies and roses ?!? Are you in Alaska or something? Peopies were done three weeks ago and the rose petals are all lying in the sun under the plants. All done here in tropical Tidewater MD.

  56. 56
    lamh36 says:

    And now watching The Matrix BluRay. Haven’t watched this movie from beginning to end in awhile.

  57. 57
    slag says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Why do wingnuts get such a boner over the prospect of societal collapse?

    I think about this question periodically. The best answer I can come up with: They’re drama queens.

    Mostly, their lives are dull as hell (small minds lead dull lives), and they compensate in a variety of ways. Some of which are these apocalypse/rapture fantasies. Other, more mundane, ways include reveling in gossipy bullshit and a wide variety of persecution complexes.

    Personally, I think they just need to get out more.

  58. 58
    Poopyman says:

    @Betty Cracker: Them’s good eatin’!

  59. 59
    Ultraviolet Thunder says:

    Those all sound very reasonable. I would add that the hard core righties hate government and total breakdown is one way to see it off for good. Never mind that what follows is infinitely wore than any government.

  60. 60
    Steeplejack says:


    Happy birthday!

  61. 61
    Poopyman says:

    Since Open Thread and JeffreyW hasn’t come around yet…

    Thread needs moar kitteh!

  62. 62
    2liberal says:

    Oh quitcherfuckingwhining . Here in PHXburb we are scheduled for 107 F today. I already did 12 miles biking at 90F plus.

  63. 63
    slag says:

    @Ultraviolet Thunder:

    Never mind that what follows is infinitely wore than any government.

    Feature. Not bug.

  64. 64
    Linnaeus says:

    Via Lawyers, Guns, & Money, here’s what happens when you work in extreme heat and you don’t have a union. It’s simply criminal.

  65. 65
    Linnaeus says:

    @Ultraviolet Thunder:

    I’m actually considering coming back to Detroit, funny as it may sound.

  66. 66
    Ultraviolet Thunder says:


    I’m actually considering coming back to Detroit, funny as it may sound.

    Doesn’t sound funny. People are moving here for specific good reasons. Small numbers, but who knows?
    When did you live ‘here’?

  67. 67
    Linnaeus says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Why do wingnuts get such a boner over the prospect of societal collapse?

    My armchair theory: they don’t like modernity and the tendency of the diffusion of power to people who are not like them. What they want is neofeudalism, but you have to clear out existing institutions to do that.

  68. 68
    Linnaeus says:

    @Ultraviolet Thunder:

    I grew up metro Detroit (yes, the burbs, but I couldn’t help that) – was there until I was 25, when I moved away for grad school in the late 90s and just kinda ended up where I am now.

  69. 69
    lamh36 says:

    @lamh36: so yeah sitting here watching Matrix and remembering how when u first watched it I was like WTF is this movie…lol.

  70. 70
    Ultraviolet Thunder says:


    I live in an old first-ring suburb by the Zoo. Great, elderly Jewish neighbors, big trees and quiet streets. The ‘burbs are nice. And there are reasons one might want to live in the City.

  71. 71
    Linnaeus says:

    @Ultraviolet Thunder:

    I know exactly the place. It is nice – the older ‘burbs have that quality that a lot of the newer ones don’t

  72. 72
    WereBear says:

    @Mnemosyne: My mom sent an e-card that terrorized poor Charlotte — she thought the sound of the “Happy Birthday” meowing kittens was coming from inside the house!

    Happy Birthday! And yes… that cracked me up.

  73. 73
    Ultraviolet Thunder says:


    We considered North Rosedale Park for the great real estate and nice neighborhoods but settled here for better access to highways. And to actually get something for our high property taxes. Still love those huge fancy old Detroit houses, though. It’s astonishing how much home you get for your money there.

  74. 74
    NickT says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    There’s actually a whole genre of pictures of blighted cities, both online and in book form. Detroit is quite well represented.



  75. 75
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    @Ultraviolet Thunder:

    There was a website about Detroit that compared aerial photos of the city during the Forties to satellite photos of the same areas today. It very graphically displayed the un-citying of Detroit. Hoping that you might know of it and share a link.

  76. 76
    Linnaeus says:


    Though in Detroit, a lot of the residents are getting tired of the city being a centerpiece of that genre. The term they use is “ruin porn”.

  77. 77
    Ruckus says:


    It’s always 29. Jeeeeze to I have to teach the kids everything?

  78. 78
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:


    Hell, I’d love to pass for 50.

  79. 79
    Ultraviolet Thunder says:


    Though in Detroit, a lot of the residents are getting tired of the city being a centerpiece of that genre. The term they use is “ruin porn”.

    True. Nobody wants to be the ‘after’ picture in a cautionary tale of bad decisions they had nothing to do with. And being associated with rot/devastation makes it hard to attract new residents.

  80. 80
    Linnaeus says:

    @Ultraviolet Thunder:

    Oh, sure…those houses would cost orders of magnitude more here on the west coast.

  81. 81
    aimai says:

    @Linnaeus: Absolutely. Plus there’s the whole right wing fixation with the apocalypse and the end times serving as the last moment to really show the hippies who is boss. If you can’t write about or mentally experience the end times how can you enjoy knowing you are saved? Being saved isn’t all about being saved, its all about knowing some othe rpoor schmuck wasn’t saved. Apocalyptic and dystopian novels in which the hero gets saved (or saves others) fits right in with the larping nature of a lot of christianist, millinerian beliefs.

  82. 82
    Ruckus says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate:
    I have it on good authority that you are not a woman.

  83. 83
    NickT says:


    Thanks! I couldn’t remember the term. You do your namesake proud.

  84. 84
    NickT says:


    If they confined their beliefs to millinery we’d all be much better off.

  85. 85
    aimai says:

    @efgoldman: Yah. Well, since we left Boston to come here I can assure you that Boston on its best day is no Paris. Not even close. Teeming isn’t really the issue.

  86. 86
    aimai says:

    @NickT: Oops. Well, I like your version better than mine. Hats all ’round.

  87. 87
    gelfling545 says:

    It is sunny, breezy and lovely mid 70s here. This is after weeks of nearly constant rain so it is very welcome indeed. When the weather is like this yard work is a pleasure so much is getting done today that had been put off due to rain ( and because the soil was like soup).

  88. 88
    Ultraviolet Thunder says:


    Oh, sure…those houses would cost orders of magnitude more here on the west coast.

    A lawyer friend has had his 10BR 10BA manse in Indian Village on the market for a year for $0.25M. No takers. Imagine that anywhere else in North America.

  89. 89
    Ruckus says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate:
    I have for most of my life been able to pass for someone 5-10 years younger. Nice when you get old, a real pain being a teenager. Most people never come close to guessing my real age. Especially when I tell them I was born in the first half of the last century.

  90. 90
    PhoenixRising says:

    @Mnemosyne: Good lard, where do you live that you can get a screening of the new Pixar joint a full week before we do?

    I’m probably not jealous because on the other 364 days of the year you have traffic.

    Also, happy 29th!

  91. 91
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:


    True that. On the other hand I had to have the habit of covering my mouth when I laugh beaten out of me. I had a lot of feminine mannerisms of which whose inappropriateness I was unaware before they resulted in fist fights. The yield of that was a level of comfort with interpersonal violence that made me a piece of work on my return from Vietnam.

  92. 92
    Ruckus says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate:
    I knew a lot of folks that just coming home from Vietnam had that effect. They no longer knew how to live among people who weren’t trying to kill them.

    You also sound a little like a gentleman that I served with. He was about 6ft 1or2 and looked like a rail. Best boxer I ever knew, including guys that fought at Olympic Auditorium. Could fight way out of his weight class. Even when drunk. And did frequently. Called me out one night when we both returned to the ship drunk about the same time. His wingman saved my ass.

  93. 93
    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN) says:

    @Ultraviolet Thunder:

    And of course there’s a scandal about that because it’s Detroit and corruption clings to everything the city government does.

    Yeah. There are some pretty horrible things in the recent revision of the laws for state takeover of a locality in Michigan but something had to be done about the Detroit city government. I like Dave Bing, for the most part, but the place was driven into the ground over the last 40 years and it’s really not the case that it was all outside forces that the city government couldn’t control. They fucked up over and over and over again while lining their own pockets.

  94. 94
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    Boxing was a revelation. I only knew about hitting at first. My theory, based on no knowledge but considerable experience, is that I learned to memorize certain patterns of vulnerability and deliver a combination of blows to take advantage of that in a reflex that was close to an eye blink. I wasn’t me during those fights. I didn’t hear or feel. It was like watching a movie.

  95. 95
    Ultraviolet Thunder says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):

    “the place was driven into the ground over the last 40 years and it’s really not the case that it was all outside forces that the city government couldn’t control. They fucked up over and over and over again while lining their own pockets.”

    Tossing the last mayor in jail seems to have slowed it down but there was a lot of momentum toward graft everywhere.
    To be fair, corrupt government was only part of the story. No city thrives when the dominant industry relocates most of its jobs elsewhere. A host of problems.

  96. 96
    NickT says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate:

    I had a similar experience in high school in the few fights I got into. Someone might hit me, but I just didn’t feel it. I didn’t like knowing that I could do some serious damage to someone because of it.

  97. 97
    JoyfulA says:

    @Ultraviolet Thunder: Maybe just wait a bit. The population in Philadelphia began rising in 2010 after drifting down since (I think) 1950, and Pittsburgh’s population rose in 2012 after a similar, probably steeper, drop.

  98. 98
    TG Chicago says:

    Speaking of things heating up in Florida, I guess Gov. Scott is speeding up the process of killing death row inmates. This American Life this week goes into the reasons why this is a terrible idea.

  99. 99
  100. 100
    Ultraviolet Thunder says:


    Here’s a graph of Detroit’s 60 year fall in population. Basically a straight line downward.

    ETA: “The city of Detroit lost 25 percent of its population between 2001 and 2010, according to newly released census data. In all, 237,500 left the city, a rate of one person every 22 minutes. It is the largest ten-year decline for any large city in US history, and second in percentage terms only to the decline experienced by New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. Detroit’s population, 713,777, is at its lowest point since World War I.”

  101. 101
    James E. Powell says:


    My theory is that right-wingers are all about suppressed rage. At what? At everything but especially the lack of any power to control one’s life.

  102. 102
    mclaren says:

    High 60s with overcast where I live. Of course, I moved here 20 years ago when I realized global warming was making much of America unlivable, but then unlike most Americans, I actually look around, observe reality, and change my behavior to compensate.

    When the drought emergencies begin and bottled water has to be trucked in, you’ll get an education.

  103. 103
    NickT says:


    Dying of thirst or living near mclaren.

    We really have no good options any more.

  104. 104
    CarolDuhart2 says:

    @TG Chicago:


    Exonerations like the one mentioned in the article is why I now have converted to the “safe, legal and rare approach to Capital Punishment. Personally, I would rather see it used only in the most extreme and rare cases like mass murder, terrorism, murder for hire and serial killers.

    In short, if the state is going to kill, it’s going to have to have a massive need and near Olympian proof of guilt to do it. Not only that, but the examples I mentioned would be the most unredeemed and unrepentant kinds, people who would be unable to be even moderately rehabilitated. Maybe with fewe r eligible for the death penalty, the state would actually have to pay attention and really fight to prove it should do this. And the defendants would have a fighting chance to prove otherwise if they are not part of a massive flood of cases.

    Even then, I may have some doubts. This is an irreversible penalty, and all penalties have the prospect of human error involved. At least life without parole gives a prisoner a second chance if there is a mistake here, and if there is no mistake, the prisoner is where they should be in the first place.

  105. 105
    Betty Cracker says:

    @mclaren: You sound so similar to my preppers.

  106. 106
    Betty Cracker says:

    @CarolDuhart2: There is no reason to have a death penalty, ever. It’s not a deterrent. It is horrendously expensive to prosecute a death penalty case and would be even more so if the appropriate safeguards were in place.

    The act of participating in snuffing out the life of a person who is disarmed and restrained and incapable of posing an immediate threat is dehumanizing to those who must participate in it.

    It’s much cheaper and more sensible — not to mention more worthy of a society that aspires to civilization — to lock up the most dangerous criminals and monsters who have committed horrific crimes forever.

  107. 107
    Ruckus says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    Thank you for saying it better than I would have.

    It’s time for a lot of this country to grow up past the age of 12 and really think about what it is we want our country to be. We could be a civilized place or we can continue on down the road we are on. Can’t have both.

  108. 108
    something fabulous says:

    @Mnemosyne: Happy Birthday!!!!

  109. 109
    Ruckus says:

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate:
    This is one of the keys to doing anything physical well. Find the things that matter most to the outcome, learn to do them without having to process it at normal thinking speed and execute the maneuver. Most sports, chess, many work processes – like welding, surgery. And on and on. Falls into the things needed to accomplish anything. Talent, Experience, Desire. They don’t have to be equal but they have to all be present. Immense talent and desire can build a lot of experience rapidly. Little talent, lots of experience and desire? You may be able to accomplish something but it likely won’t be pretty – one can practice a musical instrument for years without talent and play badly. No talent, experience or desire? Nawgunahappen.

  110. 110
    NickT says:


    I confess, officer. As a child, I tormented my neighbors with bad trumpet-playing.

  111. 111
    CarolDuhart2 says:

    @Betty Cracker: I know it’s not a deterrent. Those that can be deterred are too rational to actually kill unless under orders. But that’s the problem with the deterrence argument. If deterrence is seen as the sham it is, then the only question is punishment and who deserves it and why. And nobody wants to go there.

    I used to be a stronger supporter of the death penalty. But I was growing up during the “revolving door” phase of criminal justice where violent rapists and such were let out to make room for crack and pot smokers and sellers to the detriment of everyone. And too often it seemed as if reformers were bl ind to the fact that some folks are too violent and damaged to ever be let out of prison ever.

    But there’s been a lot of reform lately that takes into account these matters. We are slowly ending the drug wars,going towards alternative sentencing for non-violent offenses, and perhaps even lowering sentences for some crimes. This means that the revolving door for violent offenders will be less and less. Also several exonerations have proven that our justice system is simply too broken and underfunded to levy such a sentence without prejudice.

    So I’m pretty much down to mostly outlaw the whole thing unless it’s bin Laden or someone who keeps trophies of human heads in their basement.

  112. 112
    CarolDuhart2 says:

    @JoyfulA: I have a vision that Detroit will become the first truly green city. It could become an incubator of the new Green Economy. There’s plenty of land, cool weather, and somewhat fertile land to start with. It’s right next to Canada for quick international connections.

    Unfortunately because of the rampant racism, the investment will have to be from foreign and out of state people who aren’t caught up in Detroit-phobia.

  113. 113
    Ruckus says:

    Bad trumpet playing and the ability to understand that beating people up wasn’t OK. Not bad.

    Mom made me take the accordion. It was a plague upon mankind but she made me. Until I started to practice at home. I like finding a cure for things.

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