Mein Herze schwimmt im Blut

even_grassley_has_feelings

Bring on the dancing beat sweetener. Unlike Chuck Grassley, we don’t have a Hill to tell where it hurts, so here’s an open thread.

Thanks to reader J for the link.

169 replies
  1. 1
    👽 Martin says:

    Considering how hard Grassley worked to fuck over health care reform after being an advocate for it, is he really surprised?

  2. 2
    Scott S. says:

    He hasn’t called me either! DAMN YOU, OBAMA!

  3. 3
    Ben Cisco says:

    So, he’s pining for him?

    I can’t even come up with an accurate adjective for this…hmmm…

    Whiny, bleating, pompous, self-absorbed, privileged, condescending, squidcloud-of-butthurt expelling asshole.

  4. 4
    Jerzy Russian says:

    And if Mr. Obama called up Mr. Grassley from time to time, I bet Mr. Grassley would find some way to bitch about the excessive “interference” or “intimidation” from the Executive Branch.

  5. 5
    c u n d gulag says:

    This is another example of politics, as either JHS, or HS.

    “Gee, after that new guy at our school invited me over to his house 4 years ago to see if I could help him with his homework – since I’d been at the school for a while and knew what the teachers wanted – and as soon as I got there, I spit at him, called him, “stupid,” and told him I’d do everything I possibly could to ruin his reputation at the school – now I’m hurt.
    I wonder why he hasn’t call me in the last few years?”

  6. 6
    kc says:

    @Jerzy Russian:

    You know it.

  7. 7
    TenguPhule says:

    Grassely must be one hell of a lousy lay. Just saying.

  8. 8
    dedc79 says:

    “I mean, sure i told my constituents that his health care plan would create death panels that would systematically euthanize old people, but, come on, water under the bridge…”

  9. 9
    Violet says:

    Aww…Chuck Grassley as spurned wannabe girlfriend. Gotta be a reality show in there somewhere. “Real Whiners of D.C.”

  10. 10
  11. 11
    MikeJ says:

    He’s just not that into you.

  12. 12
    Forum Transmitted Disease says:

    “We had a meeting down at the White House about Aug. 5, 2009 — the six of us — and he asked me this question: ‘Would you be willing to be one or two or three Republicans voting with the Democrats to get a bipartisan bill?’ and I said, ‘No,’ ” Grassley recalled.

    “I never had a phone call from him since,” Grassley added.

    As part of his charm offensive, Obama has twice dined with groups of Senate Republicans. Grassley wasn’t invited.

    I don’t make it a habit of calling people who refuse to back me up when I need their support most, why should Obama?

    Swear to God, any random high school has more mature and responsible people in it than Congress does.

  13. 13
    FourTen says:

    Shorter Masser Grassley

    That boy hasn’t steppen’d or fetched it in four years.

  14. 14
    tom says:

    Just a heads up: no e at the end of “Herz”.

  15. 15
    SatanicPanic says:

    If I were part of an American institution less popular than herpes I wouldn’t make this sort of comment.

  16. 16
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    MY heart pumps buttermilk for the vile Rethug tool Grassley.

    Go pound sand, asswipe.

  17. 17
    eemom says:

    This Michelle Obama-LGBT heckler foofaraw is sort of interesting. (And I get to say foofaraw.)

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/201.....undraiser/

  18. 18
    Punchy says:

    Grassley’s just pissed b/c he’s had to pick all his own cotton these past 4 years. Just where was Obama when Chuck really needed him?

  19. 19
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Ben Cisco:

    So, he’s pining for him?

    He’s pining for the fjords. Beautiful plumage, don’t you think?

  20. 20
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    Ach, Die Leiden des jungen Werthers.

  21. 21
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @tom:

    Perhaps mistermix has more than one heart? Would that explain the “e”?

  22. 22
    MGB says:

    Not to be the grammar police, but technically, it is “Mein Herz schwimmt im Blut.”

    Heh…German grammar police.

  23. 23
    TR says:

    All I did was work in complete bad faith with the president, completely flip-flop on my position on the individual mandate that was the centerpiece of his health care proposal, publicly call him “stupid” and spread total lies about “death panels” and other assorted bullshit, and he hasn’t reached out to me ever since!

  24. 24
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @MGB:

    Heh…German grammar police.

    “Ve haff vays in Berlin of making you conjugate that are most unpleasant, I assure you!”

  25. 25
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    I’ll admit I thought Chuck Grassley was killed in the Obamacare Death Panels. Maybe Obama thought he got him.

  26. 26
    scav says:

    Polyglot pedantry!

  27. 27
    Face says:

    German grammar police.

    You know who else had German police?

  28. 28
    MikeJ says:

    @MGB: Grammatik wird euch frei machen.

  29. 29
    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN) says:

    @MGB: Well, either that or mistermix has very unusual anatomy and meant to say, “Meine Herzen schwimmen im Blut.”

  30. 30
    shortstop says:

    This thread is a tall cool drink of yum.

  31. 31
    mistermix says:

    @tom:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.....t,_BWV_199

    Could Wikipedia be wrong?

  32. 32
    Amir Khalid says:

    @MGB:
    No. “My hearts are swimming in blood” would be Meine Herzen schwimmen im Blut.

    ETA:
    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
    Dang you.

  33. 33
    Tractarian says:

    @TR:

    Wonder why the article doesn’t mention any of those important facts. It’s almost as if they are just acting as stenographers for Grassley.

    Maybe they though Grassley’s comments were so comical that they stand on their own?

  34. 34
    piratedan says:

    I’m sure that Grassley has been called, he just doesn’t know to answer to “Stupid-Ass Motherfucker” is all.

  35. 35
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Is it possible Obama has indeed called but Grassley doesn’t know how to operate his Jitterbug mobile phone and can’t retrieve his voice mails?

  36. 36
    danimal says:

    When I first read this, my first thought was “Grassley is a big dick.”

    Nothing has changed my mind.

  37. 37
    Mandalay says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Grassely must be one hell of a lousy lay.

    Maybe, but he’s certainly good at fucking people in the ass, and stabbing them in the back.

    I wonder if that might be why Obama never calls him?

  38. 38
    JPL says:

    @eemom: Why are some portraying a heckler as a victim?

  39. 39
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Tractarian:

    It’s almost as if they are just acting as stenographers for Grassley.

    /Claude Rains voice

    I’m shocked, shocked!

  40. 40
    MGB says:

    @mistermix: D’oh! Dumbness felt. Oh well, I tried, and thank myself for playing.

  41. 41
    MGB says:

    @mistermix: D’oh! Dumbness felt. Oh well, I tried, and thank myself for playing.

  42. 42
    scav says:

    Maybe he was aiming to explain how he rented a car in a very dodgy part of town? Up to the hubcaps in gore, they were.

  43. 43
  44. 44
    Amir Khalid says:

    @mistermix:
    Maybe it’s Johnny Bach’s 18th century spelling.

  45. 45
    The Dangerman says:

    Quick, everyone call Chuck’s phone and identify yourself as being from the White House.

    “Hey, Chuck, do you have Prince Albert in a can?”

  46. 46
    The Other Chuck says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):

    Well, either that or mistermix has very unusual anatomy and meant to say, “Meine Herzen schwimmen im Blut.”

    Perhaps mistermix is The Doctor?

  47. 47
    jibeaux says:

    You want a booty call, you’re gonna have to live up to the name GrASSley….

  48. 48
    jibeaux says:

    Seriously, unless Obama has a road he wants blocked, I don’t know why he’d call a Republican senator.

  49. 49
    scav says:

    @mistermix: ooooo Emma Kirkby. Huzzah for old-style German spellings and the detours they lead us into!

  50. 50
    FlipYrWhig says:

    I still think not mobilizing to knock out this dipshit when he was up for re-election in 2010 was one of the liberal/left/”netroots”/Democratic Party’s most regrettable lost opportunities. At least give it Lincoln/Halter levels of engagement. You ought to be able to get solid liberalism out of Iowa and Iowans, certainly compared to Arkies (for better or worse, my ancestral people).

  51. 51
    JCJ says:

    @MGB:

    You and Tom beat me to it. I was just on vacation in Germany last week so my brain is still half thinking in German. I am glad to have other members of the German grammar police force.

    @Amir Khalid, MGB and @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    You are all way to fast for me. Die deutsche Grammatikpolizisten herrschen über alles!

  52. 52
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @mistermix: Can that locution fade into obscurity along with the bitch who coined it, please?

  53. 53
    Gravenstone says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: So he’s secretly Galifreyan?

  54. 54
    NotMax says:

    Remembrance of RFK’s shooting 45 years ago today.

  55. 55
    mistermix says:

    @Amir Khalid: Bingo! Some people keep forgetting the first rule of Balloon Juice — it’s almost always a song reference.

  56. 56
    jake the snake says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    An old acquaintance of mine used to say, “My heart pumps piss for you” to indicate his lack of sympathy.
    Now I know where it originated.

  57. 57
    Todd says:

    This is how it has always worked when somebody friendzones somebody else rudely.

    Chuck, 2008: “I am just not into you that way, Barack, but we can still be friends. Just don’t let any of my friends know we’re friends.”
    Barack, 2009-2013: (snub)
    Chuck, 2013: “Why don’t you want to be my friend, Barack? What did I do to make you hate me?”

  58. 58
    JCJ says:

    @mistermix:

    Ah. Ich muß mich entschuldigen. Ich habe nicht an Musik gedacht.

  59. 59
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Todd:
    I knows this great song about being friend-zoned.

  60. 60
    JCJ says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    I did not realize friends referred to him as “Johnny.”

  61. 61
    Tonal (visible) Crow says:

    Then there’s this classic video, in which Grassley reacts to Obama’s win last November.

  62. 62
    Brendan in NC says:

    i hate to tell Chuck, but his other friends, Reason and Sanity, stopped calling him earlier than Barack did.

  63. 63
    Amir Khalid says:

    @JCJ:
    His buddy PDQ Bach calls him that.

  64. 64
    eemom says:

    @JPL:

    Same reason they were portraying Medea Benjamin as a hero at the last Hecklergate, I guess.

  65. 65
  66. 66
    MikeJ says:

    @eemom: Vegetables and sleeveless dresses are all that’s stopping marriage equality. Michelle Obama is history’s greatest monster.

  67. 67
    Roger Moore says:

    @JPL:

    Why are some portraying a heckler as a victim?

    Because they hate the hecklee. My enemy’s enemy, etc.

  68. 68
    Ben Cisco says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Nononono, no, no! ‘E’s resting!

  69. 69
    Mnemosyne says:

    @eemom:

    We were talking about it yesterday. The whining is pretty fascinating:

    “Basically, I was asked by the first lady to be quiet, and I can’t be quiet any longer,” Sturtz told the Huffington Post. “I was surprised by how negative the crowd seemed to be. It was actually a little unsettling and disturbing.”

    It sounds like Sturtz expected to be able to interrupt an event that other people had paid good money to attend and win the crowd over to her side, and was upset because other people there told her to STFU. How delusional do you have to be to expect that?

  70. 70
    Trollhattan says:

    Do we have any evidence, any whatsoever, that Sen. Grassley knows how to operate a telephonic communications device? I’m not willing to extend that stipulation on blind faith.

  71. 71
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @eemom: Did Mrs. O beat her down too? You know how violent Black girls can be.

  72. 72
    Mnemosyne says:

    @JPL:

    Why are some portraying a heckler as a victim?

    Because she’s a white woman who was asked to be quiet by a black woman.

    No, seriously. Kurtz herself says she was “asked to be quiet,” which is apparently the worst crime ever committed against free speech. I’m not sure which interpretation of “free speech” says that the person being interrupted isn’t allowed to respond or ask the interrupter to be quiet, but it seems to be prevalent among some firebaggers.

  73. 73
    burnspbesq says:

    @MGB:

    Die Grammatikpolizei sagen, Sie sind verhafet.

  74. 74
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Maybe someone cleaned “For a good time, call Chuck Grassley” off the downstairs men’s bathroom stall in the White House?

  75. 75
    burnspbesq says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    Maybe someone cleaned “For a good time, call Chuck Grassley” off the downstairs men’s bathroom stall in the White House?

    You knew when you wrote it that that was likely to happen.

  76. 76
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead: FTW!

    I thought Grassley had retired myself so you’re not too far off.

  77. 77
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    Well, she paid her $500 to get in too. And that entitled her to do whatever she pleased, including heckle the speaker everyone else paid to hear.

  78. 78
    balconesfault says:

    From the article:

    Grassley blasted the president for failing to keep his promise, made at the start of his first term, to run the most transparent administration in history.

    Grassley said the president has fallen far short of that pledge.

    “Historically in my time in the Senate, I’ve had problems with both Republican and Democratic presidents, but this president is the worst from this standpoint — his own benchmark,” Grassley said. “By his own benchmark this is the most stonewalling president this country has ever had.”

    Grassley doesn’t actually SAY which was the most transparent administration. Carter, maybe?

    That aside, it doesn’t matter that say Bush or Reagan may have stonewalled more in an absolute send … because Obama promised to be better. And therefore there’s a different metric to judge him by. Or something.

  79. 79
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @balconesfault:

    Grassley doesn’t actually SAY which was the most transparent administration. Carter, maybe?

    Nixon. It was all over the television for a year and a half.

  80. 80
    Todd says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Did Mrs. O beat her down too? You know how violent Black girls can be.

    That sounds like it would have been fun viewing.

  81. 81
    Citizen_X says:

    “That Barack HUSSEIN Obama, he’s not even American! He’s not even a Christian! He’s a dictator, an incompetent, he’s with our enemies, and he…he…sob!…he never calls! Booo hoohoooo!” [Runs away.]

  82. 82
    ericblair says:

    @Trollhattan:

    Do we have any evidence, any whatsoever, that Sen. Grassley knows how to operate a telephonic communications device?

    Isn’t he the guy who tweets things like “przdnt Obummer dsnt want to talk to meeee y idunno very dscraging #worstpreznitEVAR &*^$*#(NO CARRIER”? Or is that some ten year old kid he keeps chained up in the storage room?

  83. 83
    Shortstop says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead: Mister, you’re en fuego today.

  84. 84
    patroclus says:

    Grassley made himself irrelevant in August 2009 – talk to him, don’t talk to him, his votes not going to change (on any issue, let alone his “signature” issue of an individual mandate to provide health insurance to the uninsured), so why bother?

    ENDA has no chance so long as the Republicans remain so relentlessly anti-gay, but Obama should sign the EO applicable to the federal government. I think the heckler would have been less rude and more convincing by merely asking a question during the Q and A period or by staying after the formal presentation to ask a question privately.

  85. 85

    Has Grassley called Obama?

  86. 86
    Maude says:

    @Trollhattan:
    I don’t think he knows how to do much of anything. His fee fees are hurt.
    I was fluent in German and I can’t understand what people here have written in it.

  87. 87
    sb says:

    @Ben Cisco: Please to let me know in advance if I am ever on your bad side.

  88. 88
    Paul in KY says:

    @MGB: I bet they have the coolest uniforms…

  89. 89

    What would conservatoids do if they had no courtier press to help them turn lemons into lemon-wet-good-ade?

  90. 90
    Trollhattan says:

    @mistermix:

    Must give a shout-out to the Lorraine Hunt Lieberson recording of this, in her collection of Bach cantatas. A stunning performance on its own merit that becomes heart-wrenching when you learn she would succumb to breast cancer three short years after recording it, having already endured the death of her sister from the same affliction. She sings “Ich habe genug” with the conviction of somebody facing her own mortality with savage certainty.

  91. 91
    liberal says:

    Douchbaggery endless—WashPost “afternoon buzz” is telling me: “Cuccinelli says he might be latest IRS target: AG says agency is withholding $125 million owed to Va., possibly in retaliation for his lawsuits.”

  92. 92
    catclub says:

    @mistermix: SMP. Not my favorite aria, but he did love the altos.

  93. 93
    RSA says:

    @MGB:

    Heh…German grammar police.

    No one expects the German grammar police!

    (Well, actually, we do…)

  94. 94
  95. 95
    Trollhattan says:

    @ranchandsyrup:

    Totally OT, any thoughts about the Colorado River ruling? Didn’t get much press here.

  96. 96
    Trollhattan says:

    @RSA:

    I don’t live in a Low Country but I do have friends in low places, so I expect grammar Panzers next.

  97. 97
    Paul in KY says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead: You are in fine form today!

  98. 98
    balconesfault says:

    @patroclus:

    Grassley made himself irrelevant in August 2009 – talk to him, don’t talk to him, his votes not going to change (on any issue, let alone his “signature” issue of an individual mandate to provide health insurance to the uninsured), so why bother?

    That’s pretty much the entire GOP Senate caucus, isn’t it? I have a hard time believing that any non-wingnut reporters can carry off an interview with any of these drama queens without rupturing a spleen from repressing laughter.

  99. 99
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Maude:
    We were just exchanging banter about the post headline. And doing a roll call of die Balloon Juicer deutsche Grammatikpolizei — the BJ German grammar police.

  100. 100
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Trollhattan: Trollhattan neutrality is a scrap of paper?

  101. 101
    Maude says:

    @Amir Khalid:
    Ah, no wonder.
    I had a very hard time speaking it when I was first in a German speaking country. You should have seen people’s faces.
    I’m not fluent now.
    Thought I was slipping a few brain cells.

  102. 102
    Maude says:

    OT

    Yahoo News headline

    Koman cancels races in 7 cities due to low turnout.
    Woot!

  103. 103
    Raven says:

    @<a href="#comment-4473641@Trollhattan: I’m gazing out over the LowCountry as we speak.

  104. 104
    Trollhattan says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    On this point we cannot, nay, must not waffle.

  105. 105
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Maude:

    I almost feel sorry for them. The story I read about it yesterday said that they didn’t realize that their major fundraisers were involved with multiple areas of women’s health, including Planned Parenthood, so they had no clue that dissing PP would piss off the people who were raising most of the money for Komen. Ooopsie!

  106. 106
    Maude says:

    @Maude:
    Got it wrong. Cuts it’s 3 day races, not cancel.

  107. 107
    tom says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Nope. “Herz” is the only German neuter that takes an -en ending. Plural: Meine zwei Herzen.

  108. 108
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Maude:
    Haven’t been anywhere near Germany since I was a toddler. I taught myself German a few years ago from an Oxford University Press self-instruction kit and a grammar textbook.
    ETA: I don’t get much opportunity to practice conversation, though; as you might guess, KL is not exactly full of German speakers.

  109. 109
    patroclus says:

    @balconesfault: Pretty much the entire caucus but not all of them. McCain responds to flattery on some issues; Kirk and Collins are talk-to-able; Murkowski on some issues; Isakson somewhat; Hatch on occasion; Alexander somewhat. But not Grassley – he was Mr. Individual Mandate for over a decade; pretending that he cared about uninsured Americans with no health care and he completely tanked and parroted right wing talking points and lies. And has basically kept it up for nearly 4 years. The reason Obama hasn’t called Grassley is that it would be a complete waste of time.

  110. 110
    Original Lee says:

    I wonder why I now have this song as an earworm as I read this thread.

  111. 111
    Cassidy says:

    @Mnemosyne: Nope. Not a single bit. Hopefully it folds. They decided to inject their personal jeebus into what was supposed to be a scular entity and thye did it at a time when PP was a highly polarizing topic. They picked a side and they lost. Apparently her sister’s death isn’t as important as preaching to everyone. Fuck’em.

  112. 112
    gelfling545 says:

    @Mnemosyne: Soehow, I doubt many people would pay $500 to hear Ms. Kurtz. She made her point. She should be satisfied with that and stop whining about it.

  113. 113
    JPL says:

    @Amir Khalid: The forum was a speech. It was not a town hall meeting where back and forth is allowed. She was rude and lacks common decency if she can’t recognize the difference. Rudeness has nothing to do with how much she paid.

  114. 114
    pat says:

    @mistermix:
    I believe the modern German is correct with “Mein Herz.”

    I just did a quick search and it seems a LOT of CDs and articles use “Herze” and a LOT use “Herz.” Maybe it was different in Bach’s day……

    Any German / Bach scholars out there?

  115. 115
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @patroclus: This is a grudge match. Grassley and Obama go waaaay back, to Iowa and 2007, and the Iraq war.

  116. 116

    @Trollhattan: I was pretty sure it would be upheld. Easiest thing for Connelly to do. I need to go through the opinion some more. Salton Sea and Imperial County get the short end of the stick while San Diego benefits. I was hoping that some of the enviro issues would survive but they’ll have to start anew.

    The 2003 accord was an improvement but didn’t go far enough. Eventually we’re going to have to change pricing to reflect scarcity.

    What did you think?

  117. 117
    Trollhattan says:

    @Cassidy:

    Her pulling down well over $600k/year comes across as a lot less “doing good in my sister’s memory” and a lot more “this is an awesome gig I have here.”

    FWIW the recent local Run for the Cure drew half as many runners as in ’12.

  118. 118
    pat says:

    @burnspbesq:

    verhafTet

  119. 119
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    ChuckGrassley ✔ @ ChuckGrassley
    Constituents askd why i am not outraged at PresO attack on supreme court independence. Bcause Am ppl r not stupid as this x prof of con law

  120. 120
    Trollhattan says:

    @ranchandsyrup:

    Confess it’s pretty far off my radar, although there’s an indirect impact given SWP deliveries to SD County via…MWD? Crap, I can’t keep track.

  121. 121
    Keith G says:

    @Amir Khalid: Yup, the heckler should neither be portrayed as a victim or as a hooligan. MO was speaking at a political event. That was her choice. In that arena, heckling is a reality (as is cell phone recording).

    If you can’t take the heat,….

  122. 122
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @ranchandsyrup:

    Eventually we’re going to have to change pricing to reflect scarcity.

    The temerity! To suggest a market-based solution!

  123. 123
    Amir Khalid says:

    @JPL:
    Per the Washington Post:

    Sturtz said she paid $500 to attend the fundraiser, part of a protest cooked up by the gay rights group GetEqual, which gained notice in Obama’s first term for hectoring him during speeches and demanding more action on lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender issues.

    Ellen Sturz made a point of mentioning how much she paid to get in, although like you I don’t see its relevance. And she and her group have heckled Barack Obama’s speeches before, apparently in the belief that it’s the right way to go about … well, “protesting” doesn’t seem the right word for demanding that the President do what he wants to do, and is planning to do in any case.

  124. 124
    Keith G says:

    @JPL: It was a political event. Protest might be a bit boorish, but not exceptional. It is a right all of us enjoy and more of us might want to use.

  125. 125
    IowaOldLady says:

    Cripes. This guy is one of my senators, and yet it’s the other one who’s retiring.

    Why would anyone call Chuck Grassley?

  126. 126

    @Davis X. Machina: Heh. It took me some time to come around to this position and I’m still wary. But we have to work on both the supply side and the usage side. Behavior won’t change with artificially low pricing in the southwest.

  127. 127
    Central Planning says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Perhaps mistermix has more than one heart?

    He must be a time lord.

  128. 128

    @Trollhattan: There is an impact for you in that SD firmed up their source from CO River so we won’t come looking for more water from y’all. We get about 30% from the delta right now and 50% from CO river.

  129. 129
    LAC says:

    World: OMG, Grassley! Like, send like, a text, to, like, Amanda in math. She’ll know what is going on. OMG, I would die!

  130. 130
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    From someone both aged and cynical, this thread is chock full of win. I doff my hat to y’all.

  131. 131
    JPL says:

    @Keith G: @Amir Khalid:
    Michelle Obama is not an elected official. I have no problem questioning the actions of elected officials and expressing opinions but the only reason you heckle is to get on the news.

  132. 132
    Keith G says:

    @JPL: She chose to speak a a political event, an event raising money so that a political organization might be more successful in its quest to be a more powerful force in this country’s government.

    Sounds like an excellent place to protest.

    If that were First Lady Ann Romney speaking at a GOP fundraiser (and someone bought me a ticket) I would be so there asking her why she was happy with her hubby’s war on Planned Parenthood.

  133. 133
    Trollhattan says:

    @JPL:

    This. Speaking truth to power doesn’t de facto extend to speaking truth to somebody frequently adjacent to power. And frankly, FLOTUS has been scrupulous about staying clear of policy and governance, knowing the shitstorm it would create. (Recalling the heartfelt Republican welcome for FLOTUS Hillary.)

  134. 134
    Trollhattan says:

    @ranchandsyrup:

    Westlands would still like it all, regardless. Okay, Westlands and the frackers.

  135. 135
    eemom says:

    @Keith G:

    What do you think Michelle Obama should have said/done?

  136. 136
    JCJ says:

    @Original Lee:

    OMG! That album came out around the time I went to school in Hamburg. The Spider Murphy Gang played a concert in the Stadtpark that I went to see. The big hit was “Skandal im Sperrbezirk.”

  137. 137
    Todd says:

    @Keith G:

    She chose to speak a a political event, an event raising money so that a political organization might be more successful in its quest to be a more powerful force in this country’s government.

    Cry havoc, and let slip the firebaggers of tears. Free Mumia, man. Toss some glitter, fire up the incense, and populate the drum circle.

    LOL

    Once more, I’m greatly saddened that there wasn’t a burly cop with a 10 D cell maglite present, and that said nonexistent maglite was not used to split the heckler’s skull open like an overripe cantaloupe.

  138. 138
    Keith G says:

    @Trollhattan: I imagine that Ellen Sturtz not trying to speak truth to power as much as she was trying to raise awareness of an important civil rights issue. ‘Mission accomplished’ in that all the reports I read today mentioned her stated concerns.

    Michelle is in good company, though…..

    Grieving Mom Heckles Laura Bush

  139. 139

    @Trollhattan: Westlands. Your favorite.

    But but fracking will make us energy independent. Who needs potable water when we have freedom juice?

  140. 140
    Todd says:

    @eemom:

    What do you think Michelle Obama should have said/done?

    Whimperingly accept the scolding of one of her lily white emoprogs betters, of course. Followed by begging her husband to abdicate his powers to a hackeysack soaked in patchouli.

  141. 141
    Todd says:

    @Keith G:

    ‘Mission accomplished’ in that all the reports I read today mentioned her stated concerns.

    Actually, “don’t give a shit” gives way to “mild antipathy” every time one of these fucking hecklers opine.

    When President Santorum starts rounding up folks for ex-gaying camps, I’m just gonna laugh.

  142. 142
    Keith G says:

    @Todd: So if this were a person of color concerned about racism in our federal penal system heckling a GOP fundraiser (again, let’s say Ann Romney), you would support a burly cop with a 10 D cell maglite used to split the heckler’s skull open like an overripe cantaloupe.?

    Good. To. Know.

  143. 143
    Comrade Mary says:

    @tom:

    Meine zwei Herzen.

    Is that a stripey scarf I see?

  144. 144
    metricpenny says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Not necessary to get physical.

    Women from the Southside of Chicago just need a tone and a look.

  145. 145
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Keith G: Has any disinterested observer ever come away from an encounter with a heckler thinking that the heckler had a good point and should be heard more? The point is to disrupt and be unpleasant to make a point. OK, then. Is the point ever made? Seems like it’s doomed to be even less popular than a march or a strike, which don’t usually go over that well themselves in this country, but at least have the advantage of showing mass support. One person yelling seems like a very bad way to garner positive attention for anything.

  146. 146
    Shortstop says:

    I have no problem with someone paying to get into a political fundraiser and then trying,
    however ineptly, to heckle the speaker, however much the speaker is actually peripheral to the object of policy change. If Sturtz thinks this is an effective way to make her point, she can knock herself out.

    The problem is with her simultaneously naive, arrogant and self-deluded belief that once she heckled, the hecklee and audience didn’t have a perfect right to tell her to pipe the fuck down. In the fantasies of so many hecklers, their audiences, once struck by the force of the finally unvarnished, blinding truth, will either 1) fall back amazed and gratified at having been shown the way or 2) will curl up furious and speechless at having been so expertly dissed in a few words. The hecklers never fail to be stunned when neither happens.

  147. 147
    Keith G says:

    @eemom: I am less concerned about her than I am about people who seem to want to have protest stifled as long as they like the object of the protest. Stop being precious. We liked playing tough when the other guys were in power.

    I wasn’t really fond of her threatening to take her speech and go home, but she gets to make her own choices. I do wonder about her staff work. I hope someone like her “playing politics” at this level (the highest we have), has been given pointers and practice about handling hecklers. Her husband had the right idea – a method any political speaker should consider.

    To be clear, if she was addressing a group of school kids (non politicians) about her diet and exercise initiative (non political), a heckler would have been totally unacceptable.

  148. 148
    MattR says:

    @Shortstop: This is pretty much how I feel. If she wants to interrupt and heckle to try and make her point, that is her perogative. But don’t assume that you will be “treated like liberators”, to borrow a phrase from the previous administration. The people in attendence may support your goals but that does not mean that they will also support your disruption of an event that they paid to attend.

  149. 149
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Keith G:

    I wasn’t really fond of her threatening to take her speech and go home, but she gets to make her own choices.

    So the heckler has freedom of speech, but Michelle Obama doesn’t?

    As I said above, that’s always what gets me about free speech advocates — they don’t seem to realize that, yes, they have a right to say their piece, but then their opponent has an equal right to respond. I don’t see what the problem was with Mrs. Obama saying that if Ms. Kurtz wanted the microphone that badly, she would leave and let Ms. Kurtz have it.

    You’re not being “silenced” if you say your piece and the other person responds to it.

  150. 150
    Keith G says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Sometimes getting a headline is an accomplishment. though, it it rarely is enough. What matters now is what comes next. I recall how pissed off many New Yorkers were during the early days of ACT UP. Those folks did not play nice. And yes, eventually more conventional discourse was required.

    A woman, who is married to the world’s most famous community activist/organizer, just got a big hello from another activist. It’s a funny world.

  151. 151
    Keith G says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    Bullshit

    I will not play along as you play your fucking deranged game of putting words on the keyboards of others. You try this every day, you get called out, and yet here you come at it again.

  152. 152
    TR says:

    @Keith G:

    Heckling is a reality at $500-a-person private fundraisers?

    Put down the bong, dude.

  153. 153
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Keith G:

    I think I asked this question before, but the thread had died before you were able to answer:

    IIRC (and I plead to having been in junior high and only getting my information through the national media), most of ACT-UP’s actions were against people they felt were blocking treatment for AIDS patients, like staging protests during Masses that were presided over by the obstructionist Catholic cardinal in New York. Was there also a lot of internecine protesting between different factions that supported the same general actions that didn’t get as much publicity?

  154. 154
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Keith G:

    I will not play along as you play your fucking deranged game of putting words on the keyboards of others. You try this every day, you get called out, and yet here you come at it again.

    Then what did you mean when you said Mrs. Obama “gets to make her own choices”? It sounded like you were criticizing Mrs. Obama’s actions. Was that not what you meant?

  155. 155
    TR says:

    @IowaOldLady:

    Why would anyone call Chuck Grassley?

    Insomnia?

  156. 156
    WereBear says:

    I was somewhat more tolerant of Bush being heckled, since he pointedly shut down protest anywhere near him. Anyone who got through regardless deserves at least a “well played, sir or madam!”

    But on the whole, it’s rude and wrong and thoughtless and pointless. I’m always up for defending liberal ideas, but I’m not going to get into a shouting match with someone when I’m invited for dinner.

    Heckling is the cheapest form of narcissism.

  157. 157
    TR says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    You’re not being “silenced” if you say your piece and the other person responds to it.

    You’re especially not being silenced if you rudely interrupt the person everyone else was there to hear and then she offers you the fucking microphone.

    This woman is no different from Joe Wilson. No, she’s worse. At least Wilson didn’t act like the victim.

  158. 158
    eemom says:

    @Keith G:

    I think you have the better of the argument as to points (1) it was a political event, and (2) most people here would be falling all over themselves to cheer for your hypothetical Ann Romney heckler.

    For myself, I certainly don’t see the heckler as a victim and I don’t think heckling is a good tactic to call attention to an issue when the issue has nothing to do with the event. As for MO’s reaction, I have a sort of instinctive appreciation for anyone who tells someone acting like an asshole to STFU…..OTOH, MO does enjoy a certain “she can do no wrong” idolatry, in general, that I don’t subscribe to.

  159. 159
    eemom says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    You’re not being “silenced” if you say your piece and the other person responds to it.

    Handing her the microphone and saying “it’s me or her” is not a response. As I said above, I’m fine with it as a reaction — but a “response”, it is not.

  160. 160
    eemom says:

    feh, blockquote fail.

  161. 161
    Eric U. says:

    I don’t see anything wrong with the heckler, but the implication that something wrong was done in response is ridiculous. You heckle, you get shown out of the room. If Michelle Obama wants to make that person look bad for being rude, I see nothing wrong with that either. It’s not like there are going to be any sort of lasting repercussions for her actions. Just because she’s making herself look like a deluded buffoon doesn’t reflect on the administration at all.

  162. 162
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    OK, the Hochdeutsche Grammatikpolizisten have spoken.

    The obvious out is to just BS your way through and say it’s idiomatic dialect…blame Schwäbisch, that’s always a likely sell.

  163. 163
    Keith G says:

    @TR: $500 fundraising political events are great ways to keep noise from troubling the powerful. I am glad that it doesn’t always work.

    @Mnemosyne: I will try this once

    Me:
    “I wasn’t really fond of her threatening to take her speech and go home, but she gets to make her own choices”.

    You:
    “So the heckler has freedom of speech, but Michelle Obama doesn’t?”

    Let me try:
    To my simple mind, the style to not be fond is a way to say, “To me it could have been done in a better way”. But notice that I did not say MO had no right to respond and regain the focus of her comments.

    Her speech, she gets to make that call. I get to wonder if it could have been handled differently.

    So for you to slyly present that I was implying that ‘ the heckler has freedom of speech but Michelle Obama doesn’t’ is a construct so wild that it’s origins confuse me.

    But yes folks it was a stunt. Just like when the grieving mother of a KIA soldier interrupted Laura Bush, it was a stunt.

    In this context, stunts are rude. It’s why they are called a stunt and why it is used as an attention getting activity by those who can’t get their calls put through to the powerful. And it is very American.

  164. 164
    Mnemosyne says:

    @eemom:

    Handing her the microphone and saying “it’s me or her” is not a response. As I said above, I’m fine with it as a reaction — but a “response”, it is not.

    Meh, fair enough, I guess. I guess I’m still gobsmacked from the sense of entitlement that made Ms. Kurtz whine later about how it was so unfair that she was asked to be quiet and how shocked she was that the other guests seemed to agree with Mrs. Obama and not with her. I still think she had a whole “speaking truth to power” fantasy in her head of turning the crowd against Mrs. Obama that just didn’t play out the way she wanted.

  165. 165
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Keith G:

    To my simple mind, the style to not be fond is a way to say, “To me it could have been done in a better way”. But notice that I did not say MO had no right to respond and regain the focus of her comments.

    Okay, fair enough. Thank you for clarifying.

    I am genuinely curious about the ACT-UP question, because I was too young to really get most of the details at the time. I think there was some discussion of different factions starting to fight each other as time went on in And the Band Played On, but I’d be interested to hear from someone who was actually there.

  166. 166
    Keith G says:

    @eemom:

    For myself, I certainly don’t see the heckler as a victim

    And while I am sure that you noticed it, let me point out for others that in my first comment, I noted that I felt that the notion of a victim was not warranted.

  167. 167
    Keith G says:

    @Mnemosyne: To keep it short. The original ACT UP crowd were in a sense revolutionaries, but revolutionaries are only good at doing a limited and specific list of things.

    At some point there is a need and (thanks to the revolutionaries) a space for dialogue and bridge-building – to paraphrase Ecclesiastes 3:1 “There is a time for everything” and sometimes the necessary noise makers cannot integrate into the efforts of cooperation and governance.

    Edited

  168. 168
    Original Lee says:

    @JCJ: I have that album on cassette tape. I guess I’m older than dirt.

  169. 169
    shortstop says:

    @Keith G: But Sturtz apparently does see herself that way, based on her comments after the fact. Many of us are addressing that, not simply responding to you.

Comments are closed.