Here’s a the tease for another vapid “analysis” by the Times. The Republican Party wondering if it will criticize Obama during the midterms is like the Pope agonizing over converting to Judaism, Rob Ford debating whether to put a rock in his pipe, or a bear wondering if he’ll shit in the woods. To give you an indication of how hard the Times had to work to gin up this “debate”, the one guy they quote on the “no criticism” side, John Linder, was the head of the NRCC in the late 90’s. That’s when he lost the same “debate” with Newt Gingrich over whether to criticize Bill Clinton.
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Baud
To borrow a meme:
Stop trying to make sane Republicans happen.
It’s not going to happen.
Chyron HR
Opiebambi’s going down this time, libs!
UNLIMITED CORPORATE CASH!
VICTORY!!!
Scared yet?
Cassidy
I’d rather shower in prison than talk about what republicans think of Obama.
the Conster
@Cassidy:
This.
OT, but could someone click on that Newsmax headline about the Pope’s failed exorcism and possession and report back? kthx.
Nunca el Jefe
This is a first world problem.
MDC? SDC? UDC?
Shakezula
As with all things GOP, Das Press will give credit and ink (or electrons) because they sort of maybe paused to think about it. See also post-election faux hand wringing over minority outreach.
debit
@Chyron HR:
I miss that guy. Never see him posting anymore. I wonder why.
the Conster
Also OT, from the “let’s mock Sully again” department, he fell for that POS Daily Caller WH visitor log story about the head of the IRS meeting with Obama eleventy million times to plot the tea party’s demise, bwaaahaahaaaa, until his readers set him straight that they’re pulling made up shit out of their ass JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER TIME. What a ridiculous drama FAIL queen he is.
Chyron HR
@the Conster:
Baud
@Chyron HR:
If you made that last part up, brilliant.
c u n d gulag
The phrase, “does the Pope shit in the woods?”, needs to be retired, and replaced with, “Do Catholic Priests diddle alter boys?”
Shakezula
@the Conster: Every time I hear about Andrew Sullivan he is engaged in some level of clownery that is more clownish than the last display. Taking the D.C. seriously is the entire clown kit, including the hoop pants on bouncy suspenders.
Hill Dweller
The two biggest stories of the last 20 years has been, and continues to be, the Republicans’ radicalism and the media’s refusal to acknowledge said radicalism.
WereBear
Republican thinking is an oxymoron.
I know I’ve debated this with thoughtful commenters here before, but I can’t see any of the beloved Republican policies getting a grip with anyone under fifty who is not currently enmeshed in an Talibangelical background.
I was a teenager when Women’s Liberation was really getting going. Now, young ladies in their twenties take it for granted. I was just at a gathering of college students who were every color of the rainbow and wore gay pride and atheism shirts. A record breaking 20% of the American public have rejected formal religion.
The world has already changed on them. That’s what they are so mad about, and ultimately, that will seal their doom.
I just wish it didn’t take so long.
aimai
Just because its nonsensical doesn’t mean it won’t work–look at the way they’ve turned “Nancy Pelosi” into their Baba Yaga. The fact that most people, most of the time, couldn’t tell you what the Minority Leader of the House does, let alone the name of that person, ought to tell you that they will always think this kind of demonization, personalization, polarization works. Because it does work for them.
1) Create and Enemy
2) Create a caricature of that Enemy
3) Demonize and dehumanize that Enemy
4) Attach the image of the Enemy to everything the other party wants to do (and lots of things it doesn’t)
5) Saturate bomb the media and your voters with this image.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
The problem and the promise of what they are doing is that they won’t need to start in demonizing the eventual Dem candidate, they can just attach him or her rhetorically to the deadly image of Obama and sit back and reap the rewards. This will work for some of their voters–hell, they continued beating Ted Kennedy’s dead body long after he was gone. And it won’t work well on our voters or middle of the roaders who don’t feel that way already.
Odie Hugh Manatee
“… or a bear wondering if he’ll shit in the woods”
But what about the polar bears?! Oh yeah, global warming will solve that problem.
NonyNony
@debit:
The Romney campaign stopped paying people to troll liberal blogs?
(I really want to believe that the Romney campaign was stupid enough to do exactly this. I keep thinking that it’s just a dream and nobody could be that stupid, and yet…)
NonyNony
@aimai:
If Nancy Pelosi owned a house that walked around the US on chicken legs, she would only be 200% more awesome than she is now.
Republicans would probably denounce it as a burden on taxpayers to have Pelosi’s house running back and forth between San Francisco and DC all the time though.
Maude
@Cassidy:
WIN
aimai
@NonyNony: I know, right? I love the image of her house stalking around the country. She could crush Boehner between her chicken thighs.
aimai
The title alone of that Newsmax piece is priceless:
Is that “Man-Pope” as opposed to “Woman Pope?” And who prayed over whom?
Man, Pope prayed over still possessed.
Man Pope, prayed over, still possessed
Man Pope prayed over, still possessed
Man Pope, prayed over Still. Possessed. (this one is good in Appalachia.)
Grumbles
To think about this completely amorally, I wonder how much it pays to always be wrong. I mean, dude clearly isn’t homeless. He’s on the call list for “journalists”. Just how good is that gig?
Schlemizel
@NonyNony:
Speaking of this, there were a couple of articles about the GOP paying trolls back around the 2000 elections. I would like to find those stories again but have not gotten the right combination of words for google to help. Does anyone have either a link or some suggestions of searches that might help?
Higgs Boson's Mate
@aimai:
see the merino standing there with his long shaggy hair
debbie
@aimai:
But like with everything else, they’ve pushed it too far. How many Republicans will follow Walker’s lead and debate a cardboard Pelosi? And then, how long until people everywhere begin laughing out loud at those debates? Look what Netanyahu’s cartoon bomb graphic did for his credibility.
Jeremy
@Chyron HR: That’s funny because the name Barack is a Hebrew biblical name.
Older_Wiser
Sully does seem to have gone more Tory since he went “independent”, not quite into teabaggery territory.
Although if he keeps posting about the “wonders” of the Catholic church, it may happen yet.
Todd
@the Conster:
That’s homophobic and therefore offensive. Just ask Suzanne.
Certified Mutant Enemy
@debbie:
Clint Eastwood debating an empty chair worked out so well…
Shakezula
@debbie: (It was Sanford, walker of Appalachian Trails.) True. I think they’ve gotten all the votes they can get that way. Internally Nancy Pelosi is shorthand for gay commies getting married in your living room while burning your Bibles, so I guess she serves as a rallying cry to the ever dwindling Base. Externally, people shitting themselves of the Minority Leader of the House looks deranged. I assume this election cycle we’ll hear a lot about the various supposed transgressions of the WH, complete with sinister photos of Obama and Holder, even though people outside the magic circle already don’t care. Aside from that they’ve got Guns, the ACA and the usual offensive shit about brown thug welfare moochers.
NonyNony
@debbie:
I have a theory that Republican primaries act as a form of selection on Republican politicians. Specifically they select for politicians who are missing whatever genetic/developmental trait that gives our brains that little voice that says “you’re taking it too far and are starting to make a fool of yourself, back off”. Republican voters intentionally pick these guys, so eventually they HAVE to go too far because that’s what their primary voters want.
aimai
@debbie: I agree, but didn’t he win? They are perfecting the art of soundbyte politics. I think one of their enduring rages at Obama was that because of his glamor and because of the skill of his team he and they had actually perfected a kind of wordless, hypersymbolic, freely floating message which was extremely hard to combat. Do you remember the long article about the creation of the Obama logo with its echoes of a rising sun? One of the things that emerged after they chose it was that it seemed, suddenly, infinitely customizable by groups (some real, some aspirational) from Women to South East Asians, Gays to Greens. People were able to attach themselves to it almost non verbally.
This is what they are aiming for with Pelosi and all Democratic politicians: an instant, almost subliminal, feeling of disgust and rage. By definition its not going to rise to the level of consciousness for their voters. I’m not sure what role parody and attack have on the mindset of those voters anyway. They are extremely insular, paranoid, and angry. Generally speaking the more we make fun of them (though that’s necessary) the more they retreat into their internal fantasy world of revenge and spite voting.
NotMax
@NonyNony
Primaries purposely sidestepped in Virginia for Republican Lt. Governor candidate, and look at the bozoic piece of work the party chose.
NonyNony
@Shakezula:
Not to disagree, but I think internally Nancy Pelosi is mostly short hand for “OMG A LIBERAL WOMAN WHO MAKES US AFRAID FOR OUR MASCULINITY BECAUSE SHE REFUSES TO MAKE ME A SAMMICH AND LET THE MENS GO ABOUT THEIR WORK”. Dick Gephardt didn’t see nearly the level of fearmongering that Pelosi gets, and I think a good-sized chunk of it is in the “help us prove to Democrats that women are bad at governing and should go back to the kitchen by making sure Nancy Pelosi is a failure” part of the message.
The communist Bible-burning gay marrying demon aspect is there, but reading through the fearmongering literature that gets sent to my door during election cycles, it seems to me that it’s secondary in their scare tactics to the fact that she’s a woman, possibly one who eats babies and makes your cows give curdled milk.
What? You mean that the idea that the “big strong manly men of the GOP who are supposed to protect us from terrorists and liberals” all seem utterly terrified of a grandmother from California might be sending a strange message to the voters? “Mixed signals” perhaps? The hell you say?
debbie
@aimai:
Agreed, but then people like Glenn Beck freak out when he feels he’s being symbolized by Alex Jones. You’d think they would learn something from that, but they’re too stupid for words. Which is why, at the end of the day, they’ll self-immolate.
Shakezula
@NonyNony: Agree that the dreadful Jezebel Grandma who makes not the sammiches (unlike our nice gals in elected office who totally make us lots of sammiches) is an issue. But externally that adds another level of “Are you kidding me?” because trying to put a woman in the VPotUS seat sort of contradicts the wimmin belong in the kitchen message.
Even if you don’t explicitly state “IOKIYAR” people pick up on it and get weirded out.
MomSense
@aimai:
My favorite Pelosi moment has to be when she handed Boehner the GIANT gavel he had chosen and gave him the big gavel = small pen15 look.
Higgs Boson's Mate
To me, Republicans seem to be suffering from a form of future shock. They appear to be hardwired for binary choices and when the world doesn’t accommodate them they distort logic and/or flee reality to reduce whateveritis to a comfortable binary situation. Those of us who aren’t as severely afflicted with the need for a binary world often find ourselves unable to understand the destructive nature of those who are.
That doesn’t mean that they aren’t shitheads.
NonyNony
@Shakezula:
Oh hell yeah. And to add to the the other level of getting “weirded out” – there was no mistaking a strain of “Palin in an awesome politician because she’s hot” going through the campaign, combined with a “sure she doesn’t sound like she’s ready, but it’s okay because it’s just a VP slot and she won’t really have to do much” message. Internally that message was fine because, well, Republican women are supposed to be ornamental and it’s actually great for them that she’s not going to be getting the menz way and “doesn’t she seem just like the kind of woman who would make you a sandwich and then serve it to you wearing nothing but an apron and high heels” is actually probably a fairly decent marketing message to drive into the older Republican male id.
But externally it was creepy as hell. And you mix that with the attacks on Nancy Pelosi and it seemed like they were attacking her because she was older and smart instead of young and inexperienced. Which added another level of creepiness to the whole thing.
Gin & Tonic
@debbie: Look what Netanyahu’s cartoon bomb graphic did for his credibility.
Uh, nothing? Who’s the current PM of Israel? It made people who viewed him as a buffoon view him as a buffoon.
MomSense
@NonyNony:
I think you are right. Throughout the 2010 elections, the flyers and ads in the red states were all about So and so blue dog voted with Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank 95% of the time.
The two scariest things–a powerful woman and a gay man.
Frankensteinbeck
@WereBear:
Yes. There is no strategy, no plan, no wealthy cabal running a devious campaign and manipulating the rubes. Their leaders have also flipped their shit, their wealthy backers are paranoid Birchers, the intelligent planners they used to have really weren’t as good as their reputation, and anybody with a working brain left is terrified of the foaming primary zealots – or a grifter who’s bleeding the GOP. They’ve been coasting for decades on the giant Civil Rights (and sexual revolution) backlash in the 80s. They have no other plan, and most of them don’t want any other plan, define themselves by that plan.
@NonyNony:
Remove the word ‘genetic’, and I completely agree. They need their red meat. Maybe they’ve always needed it and now it’s impossible to cover up the crazy ass things they’re saying in public, I don’t know. They ARE crazier than they used to be.
jl
I love me some navel gazing BS political analysis in the morning. It’s relaxing to read in the morning before work begins.
Will the bear shit in the woods? Or maybe in the meadows? Perhaps the bear will decide to use a fancy Japanese toiled that wipes its ass, and sprays perfume up its crack? The bear has never used a Japanese toilet, but was spotted going through a garbage dumpster near S Tahoe that had a fancy toilet catalog in it.
Will the bear feel any regret when it shits in the woods, again?
Edit: The bear is morbidly obese from dining only on thrown out McDs (it favors Big Macs) and hasn’t reproduced in years, and really can’t do anything out in the woods, or meadows, anymore but piss and take a dump. It can scare people who don’t know much about bears into doing counterproductive things. That’s a more interesting angle.
Whether the game warden has a strategy for the bear next season is also more interesting.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@jl:
Only when it shits out the Pope, whom it caught and ate while the pontiff was shitting in the woods.
gene108
@Frankensteinbeck:
This is sarcasm/snark, right?
There are still many a smart Republican political operative in this country, as witnessed by Operation Red State, in 2010, which worked better than expected. Operation Red State aimed to use the Citizen’s United Ruling to flood local and state races with “unlimited corporate cash” and it worked.
They don’t seek out media attention. They pull the strings from behind the throne.
The Democrats have not been able to get over the right-wing media wurlitzer / have a concise message to cut through the crap that resonates with voters, which leaves Republicans room to operate by going negative and playing on people’s doubts.
FlipYrWhig
@NonyNony: In their world “Nancy Pelosi” means “ballbuster” first and “liberal caricature” second.
Shakezula
@NonyNony: I have to wonder how that played with Republican women, especially ones who are Pelosi’s age and older. I can imagine not being amused if my husband was constantly starbursting over Palin while calling Pelosi (and Clinton) hags and worse.
Shakezula
LOL. Sullivan backpedals from IRSVisitGate:
Does anyone hear a calliope?
Violet
@MomSense:
That’s the Republican id right there.
@Shakezula:
Elected Republican women were not happy about it. Do you remember seeing Kay Bailey Hutchison on TV when they announced McCain had picked Palin? She did her best to be a GOP team player, but she was at a complete loss for words when asked to explain why he did. When the interviewer commented on Palin’s youth and attractiveness, Hutchison was not happy.
Outside of that, women who are married to men who would speak of Pelosi and Cinton as hags and worse are pretty much used to that kind of talk. They live with it all the time.
Frankensteinbeck
@gene108:
It is not snark or sarcasm. They act purely in the short term. 2010 was not a strategic win, nothing they earned or planned. It was the backlash election against Obama’s effectiveness that every electoral patterner told us to expect. The gerrymandering it caused isn’t a ‘plan’, it’s desperate, corrupt idiots exploiting the power they have right now in obvious ways. Unlimited Corporate Cash failed horribly, losing them national races and not gaining them anything locally they hadn’t been handed by gerrymandering, which was handed to them by luck. FOX was a plan at some point in the past. Now it’s a cancer that cares about nothing but itself. The GOP is as dumb as Sarah Palin right now. She got rich because she was in the right place at the right time, the lucky useful idiot for rich people who in hindsight were pretty damn stupid themselves. Just because they’re morons doesn’t mean they won’t ever win. There is a LOT of white resentment to coast on for a few years yet, even now that it’s devouring itself.
Jebediah
@NonyNony:
Can’t she be both? You know, floor topping, dessert wax etc.
GxB
@debit: He’s switched nyms and now is the clown that so skillfully copy-n-pastes the hookers and bologna song from lyrics.com every six hours or so.
WereBear
I have long wanted to craft a stealth campaign aimed at Republican women. There’s a metric ton of seething resentment there… and no one can see what you do in the balloting booth…
Then again, the Romneys and Akins of the world seem to be doing it for us.
Pongo
Off topic, but bizarre–now Michele Bachmann’s dem rival, Jim Graves, has suspended his campaign for her seat ‘indefinitely.’ The seat is totally up for grabs at this point.
Shakezula
@Violet: True. I just think that no one likes the idea of being replaced and according to the Rules for Real Muricun Families, the woman is at fault when a spouse wanders off. You already have Newt “Wife Trader” Gingrich being held up as a Republican Hero and David Vitter &c getting a pass. So the fap fapping over Palin would have served as a further reminder that your team really doesn’t give a fuck about you as a woman or a human being. Other people mentioned the GOP going for the visceral reaction. I think Palin triggered one the party didn’t expect.
Not saying they voted D, but I suspect it made them less likely to vote.
Amir Khalid
@Pongo:
That is indeed passing strange. According to Graves, all he ever really aimed for was getting Bachmann out, and now that she’s taken herself out of the running there’s nothing more to do — like it doesn’t matter anymore whether a Republican or a Democrat represents that district.
NonyNony
@gene108:
You’re giving them too much credit. It fell in line with off-year elections – Republican poltiical operatives trumpted its success as a self-marketing tactic – they NEED that Unlimited Corporate Cash to pay for their mortgages and their trophy wives.
Right now it’s THOSE GUYS who are pulling the strings of the party. There is no central leadership with a plan – there are dozens of operatives out there each grifting for his own benefit.
They’ll do a lot of damage in short term election win – I dread 2014 because it will be another low turnout, off year election where Democrats haven’t figured out how to get people to turn out for governor and state legislature elections that isn’t going to help anything – but until the GOP finds some actual leadership to get the nuts under control they aren’t working on a real plan other than “oppose anything Democrats say they want to do”.
Violet
@Amir Khalid: If that’s the truth, no wonder he lost. People want to vote for someone who has ideas and goals. If his main goal is unseating the incumbent, that’s not really enough.
aimai
@Pongo: Weird. What is wrong with Dems? Field a fucking candidate in every race. Just try, for once, to get your foot in the door.
Shakezula
@WereBear: That would be awesome and brutally effective. Start with lots of pictures of Sanford.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@NonyNony:
And our problem is still that “oppose anything Democrats say they want to do”.is still pretty damn effective for them, in the worst possible way. Fucks everyone right over, robs Dems of any achievements, and they’re still pretty damn insulated from any genuine consequence because ‘both sides same thing’
gene108
@Frankensteinbeck:
@NonyNony:
They don’t have to do anything but oppose what Democrats are doing. The Democrats did not make an effective case for what the country under Democratic leadership would be like.
The Republicans have a pretty clear message of what they are going to do, if elected to office on both social and economic issues.
The Democratic Party is far more fractious than the Republican Party, with DFH’s, with nowhere else to go, bringing up the left and more corporate centric Democrats bringing up the right-side of the Party.
On social issues, I think Democrats maybe getting more unified, now that gay marriage is acceptable and gays can serve in the military, though you may still have some hold outs, like Sen. Casey from PA.
Until the different groups can agree on a few common economic themes, there’s so much left unsaid all the opposition has to do is point to Pelosi and say, “my opponent will vote with Pelosi, to pass ‘x,y and z job killing legislation’, which will kill jobs (and may unleash a San Francisco Gay Pride Parade on this corner of God’s people)”.
On economic issues, there’s nothing coherent, so the people with “unlimited corporate cash” tend to either want to side with Republicans, who have a clear economic message, or sit things out and not actively back Democratic candidates.
The “Democratic Stranglehold” we seem to think exists isn’t as strong as we’d like to believe. The 2006 Congressional gains were reversed in 2010 and the Presidential electoral map is about the same as when Bush, Jr. ran in 2004 and 2000, with Florida, Ohio and a few other states turning into key battleground states either candidate would have to win.
I just don’t buy into this belief that the Republican position is as weak as people make it out to be and the Democratic position is as strong as people make it out to be.
I could easily believe Chris Christie taking the oath of office in January 2017.
Redshirt
The real battle in my opinion is educating the low interest voter about how depraved the Republicans truly are. Time and time again I’ve come across a person who’s generally nice and sane and yet will vote Republican because…. they’re parents did. Or they don’t like taxes. That’s it. They don’t really know what’s going on, and since “both sides do it”, might as well keep with the family tradition.
I have little idea how to educate these people, however, as the entire media space is constructed to keep them uninformed.
WereBear
@Redshirt: Yes, and when I do point out some completely batshit legislative agenda being pushed over a whole state, it gets dismissed as an outlier.
PeakVT
@aimai: The election is still 17 months away. There’s plenty of time to find a new candidate, or for Graves to decide to get back in.