Reverse Viagra

gamerdork

Alright, folks, strap yourselves in, because this is about to get nerdier than a Star Trek marathon at a physics convention, but I just watch tonight’s GoT, and it was just awesome. No spoilers, but a lot of really big plot turns tonight, so I called my brother, and halfway through the conversation, I asked him the following question, which I will now pose to you:

“If all the GoT characters were AD&D toons (RIP again, Gary Gygax), what would their alignment be?”

Here are a few in my estimation:

Ned Stark: Lawful Good
Robert Barathian: Chaotic Good
John Snow: Lawful Neutral
Brianne: Lawful Neutral

And so on. So, where do you think they all line up. BTW- Ygritte, the Hound, and Brianne remain my favorite characters other than Tyrian.

Also too, someone on VEEP just referred to some other cast members as “Laurel and Retardy,” and I shot tea all over my laptop. Almost as good as Retardo Montalban.






92 replies
  1. 1
    Zam says:

    Robert Baratheon, Jon Snow, Brienne. Also pretty sure I saw this thread a long while back on some Ice and Fire site.

  2. 2
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    lolwut

  3. 3
    MattR says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead: I think I’m gonna return to the previous thread from whence I came.

  4. 4
    mikefromArlington says:

    Khaleesi – chaotic neutral

  5. 5
    ulee says:

    If I could be any animal I would be an aardvark. But I’ve only had two beers so I’m just getting started on the alphabet.

  6. 6
    Librarian says:

    John, I’ve come to the conclusion that you really, really need to get laid. As soon as possible.

  7. 7
    Keith says:

    My personal fave is still Kenny Power’s story about him and his brother beating up the retarded kids down the road. The more tasteless, the better.

  8. 8
    Heywood J. says:

    That is weird; last week during Littlefinger’s “chaos is a ladder” speech, I kept trying to decide whether he was CE or CN

    Tyrion — NG or Neutral
    Varys — Neutral
    Tywin — LE

    And Jesus, poor Theon….

  9. 9
  10. 10
    me says:

    Tyrion probably shifts from Lawful Neutral to Chaotic Neutral over the course of the books especially after ….

    John Snow is definitely good not neutral.

  11. 11
    Redshirt says:

    Ghost is Lawful Good

  12. 12
    sherparick says:

    In last week’s episode, a certain character told Theon Greyjoy, “If you think this has a happy ending, you have not been paying attention.”

    Aarya Stark tells us how far she has gone on her dark journey.

    Several ways the shows are diverging from the books. Much of this is driven by economy, but actually in somew ways this makes a tighter story.

    Surprisingly, Jaimie Lannister, despite the the Bran tossing incident, is becoming a favorite. It seems that both Tyrion and Jaimie want to become decent human beings somewhat in spite (or is that to spite, their father).

  13. 13
    Pat says:

    Robert’s got to be Chaotic Neutral at best. After all, he was more than willing to have a 13 year old girl murdered (Danerys) to solidify his hold on the throne.

    If anyone could be considered “Good” in the show/book, I would have thought it would be Brienne.

  14. 14
    dewzke says:

    My spelling might suck but I think it’s Tyrion. He and Jon Snow are my favorites.

  15. 15
    dewzke says:

    I love Aarya’s character as well.

  16. 16
    Draven says:

    I’m trying to think of anyone that is truly Chaotic Evil among the main characters other than Joffrey, but am drawing a blank. Even Jaime and Cercei are probably best considered to be Chaotic Neutral: they’re more nihilistic than actually evil. In fact, I predict a lot of moral Neutrals. A big theme of the story is that good and evil aren’t so clear-cut, and there’s a whole lotta gray.

  17. 17
    Nerdlinger says:

    You misspelled Baratheon and Brienne. How dare you call yourself a nerd. For shame!

  18. 18
    John 2.0 says:

    Only season 1, but MGK’s got you covered:

    http://mightygodking.com/2011/.....eason-one/

  19. 19
    scottinnj says:

    Arya:Lawful Neutral
    Margary: Chaotic Neutral
    Littlefinger: Chaotic Evil

  20. 20
    Redshirt says:

    Hodor: Neutral Hodor

  21. 21
    Lige says:

    Littlefinger – Neutral Evil
    Stannis – lawful neutral
    Daenyrs – Neutral Good
    Tyrian – Neutral (Good)
    John Snow – Lawful Good
    The Hound – Neutral
    Bronn – Neutral Evil

  22. 22
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Tyrian is far and away my favorite, but I’m a big Arya fan too. Yes, I know Daenrys has dragons, yadda yadda yadda…

  23. 23
    jon says:

    @Redshirt: I have him pegged as True Hodor, but I can go with your assessment. After all, when confronted by that dilemma that one time, his response of “Hodor” showed us deep glimpses of his character. Or maybe he was just saying he had something in his teeth?

  24. 24
    PeakVT says:

    You know nothing, Jon Cole.

  25. 25
    BGinCHI says:

    Leotardo Montalban was Brian Boitano’s live-in buttler.

  26. 26
    Yatsuno says:

    @BGinCHI: That is the most interesting comment I’ve seen in this thread.

  27. 27
    red dog says:

    Ygritte is the only one I trust beside Hodor of course.

  28. 28
    Annamal says:

    Gregor Clegane or one of the Boltons for chaotic evil?

  29. 29
    RobertDSC-PowerMac G5 Dual says:

    @PeakVT:
    LOL.

  30. 30
    The prophet Nostradumbass says:

    Ygritte is Chaotic Sexy, particularly in cave pools.

  31. 31
    Jockey Full of Malbec says:

    A potentially helpful chart

  32. 32
    Linnaeus says:

    @Annamal:

    Gregor Clegane or one of the Boltons for chaotic evil?

    Ramsay, maybe. I wouldn’t say Gregor Clegane is chaotic evil – I’d say more lawful evil because of his service to the Lannisters.

  33. 33
    patroclus says:

    I think that Kingslayer is the most honourable man in all of the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros. He’s got some serious cojones! But Theon doesn’t…

  34. 34
    Steeplejack says:

    Empty message to establish new e-mail address.

  35. 35
    max says:

    “If all the GoT characters were AD&D toons (RIP again, Gary Gygax), what would their alignment be?”

    Good Lord, John, that’s not nerdy… well, it is a bit nerdy, but it’s not true deep nerdiness. More geeky than anything. (Way too much fucking going on to be nerdy. No, the AD&D reference is quasi-nerdy. Now, debating the merits of some AD&D versus your character or some other AD&D monster, that’s nerdy. And depending on how far you go with it, geeky.)

    (I’m not generally much for fantasy (never read The Hobbit, didn’t see the movies) but since GRRM wrote Sandkings, the best horror story ever written, I’d figure I’d give the show a whirl. (Not the books, GRRM does tend to run off at the mouth.) True nerdiness is what I’ve been doing which is noting all the similarities to the War of the Roses. Westeros is Great Britain, the wildlings are Picts, essentially, the Stark lands are Scotland and the North of England, Lannister == Lannister, Tyrell == Tyrell (really!), etc. Daenerys is basically in fucking Asia Minor or some shit right now.)

    Heywood: That is weird; last week during Littlefinger’s “chaos is a ladder” speech, I kept trying to decide whether he was CE or CN

    Littefinger is definately Chaotic Evil, as is Cersei. Joffrey is Neutral Evil, and I agree – Tywin is LE. Tyrion is Chaotic Good, and Jaime is Lawful Neutral or Lawful Good, depending on your interpretation of his circumstances. (He should stay the hell away from his sister.)

    I’d put Varys down as Lawful Neutral (at worst), depending on what you think of the tortures he’s inflicting on his pet wizard there. Pycelle is Lawful Evil.

    Arya is going to wind up being Chaotic Neutral, even if she was Chaotic Good to start with. Sansa is a stereotypical teenage girl (nothing wrong with that, even if it is clueless), so no alignment I can see. Ned was Lawful Good, as is Robb, Cat is Lawful Neutral and Bran & Rickon are kids. Snow is likely Neutral Good. Theon was Chaotic Neutral or Neutral Good, until he had a spasm of Chaotic Evil. His tormentor is fairly Neutral Evil, otherwise he’d just have offed Theon, but he’s doing it for kicks at this point.

    Robert was Chaotic Neutral I think, Renly the same, Stannis is Lawful Neutral, as is Davos. I haven’t made up my mind about the Red Lady. (Shireen is a kid too, although obviously Good of some sort.) Gendry isn’t clear yet.

    The Queen of Thorns is Neutral I think, and Margery is Chaotic Neutral. Dunno about Loras.

    Daenerys is probably Lawful Good (she is freeing slaves after all).

    I really hope Robb is smart enough to dispatch Oona Chaplin off somewhere with his child, but I expect he won’t. I don’t think Gendry will die, since Stannis didn’t die from the same ritual, and it would be messy to have no Baratheon bastards about, but we’ll see.

    max
    [‘Well, that was amusing.’]

  36. 36
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    No message, just a new e-mail address. Demoderation requested.

  37. 37
    Steeplejack (tablet) says:

    No msg, new e-mail address. Demoderation, please.

  38. 38
    Comrade Mary says:

    Meanwhile, Batman is Abject Failure, because he had a chance to deal effectively with Joffrey, but he blew it.

  39. 39
    JK says:

    Ned: Lawful Good
    Catelyn: Lawful Neutral
    Robb: Lawful Good
    Jon Snow: Neutral Good

    Robert: Chaotic Neutral
    Renly: Chaotic Neutral
    Stannis: Lawful Neutral

    Tywin: Lawful Evil
    Jaime: True Neutral
    Cersei: Neutral Evil
    Tyrion: Chaotic Neutral
    Joffrey: Chaotic Evil

    Daenerys: Chaotic Good
    Littlefinger: Chaotic Neutral
    Varys: True Neutral

  40. 40
    Suzanne says:

    This situation with my mom is unbelievably shitty and getting worse, and I can’t make it better.

    This is awful and I hate my life right now.

  41. 41
    ruemara says:

    @Suzanne: I’m sorry. I can’t say I recall the situation, but whatever it is, I’m truly sorry and I know this is trite, but hold on. Things do change. The pendulum does swing in your favour.

    And JC, that is hella nerdy.

  42. 42
    Morbo says:

    Red Wings in 7, that is all.

  43. 43
    patroclus says:

    @Comrade Mary: If Batman had only killed him, many lives in Westeros would have been saved!

    That kid – Jack Gleeson – is a good actor because so many people just HATE him!

  44. 44
    Herbal Infusion Bagger says:

    Theon is Chaotic Shat On.

  45. 45
    Herbal Infusion Bagger says:

    Little finger is *Lawful Evil*, folks. Joffrey is Chaotic Stupidly Evil. Melisandre is either Neutral or Neutral Evil, depending in whether the Red God is gonna save everybody’s asses from the White Walkers or not. Victarion Greyjoy is Neutral Evil. Renly and Loras are Chaotic Fabulous.

  46. 46

    “You pay me to kill people who bother you. The evil notions come free”.

  47. 47
    Liquid says:

    Dear John,

    item 1a) Happy Mother’s Day!
    item 1b) Your egregious remark about Lena Headey.
    item 1c) Go to Hell.
    item 1d) If I were Human.

  48. 48
    Sly says:

    @sherparick:

    Surprisingly, Jaimie Lannister, despite the the Bran tossing incident, is becoming a favorite.

    Sympathy through suffering is big in A Song of Ice and Fire. Likable characters who suffer become more likable because they suffer, and unlikable characters become less unlikable through the same process.

    Jaime not only suffers now, but we’re afforded a window into his past and ongoing suffering through his interactions with Brienne (particularly the bath scene). Revealing that he saved half a million people from a genocidal madman probably upped his image in a lot of people’s eyes, but the fact that he gets treated like shit for it? That wipes away a lot of his flaws, because those flaws start to make more sense.

    @Heywood J.:

    And Jesus, poor Theon….

    Case in point.

  49. 49
    Suzanne says:

    @ruemara: I had to have my mom involuntarily committed a month ago because she is suicidal.

    So now, because she has no health insurance, she’s living at my house.

    This is going as well as you would expect.

  50. 50
    Comrade Mary says:

    I am fucking tired of the Theon torture porn. Really, really tired of it.

    I’ve also been OK with the changes from the book this season, but I didn’t care for much of the new, clunky and draggy scene-setting in this episode. I was hoping that they would cover the whole book this season, but it does look as if they’ll end on the big scenes about 3/4 of the way into the book.

    I guess there wasn’t enough time in ten episodes to do justice to the whole thing, but the season has been going at a good pace up until now, but I wish they had scattered some new material throughout the season. It’s feeling a bit soapy right now.

  51. 51
    MikeJ says:

    Euclid’s editor is a character in this thing?

  52. 52

    @Comrade Mary: There was a scene in tonight’s episode that actually reminded me a bit of “Castle Anthrax” in Holy Grail. Until it turned disgusting, that is.

  53. 53
    Steeplejack says:

    Can a brother get unmoderated up in here?

  54. 54
    NotMax says:

    Too cute by half to headline a word which we peons are forbidden from including.

  55. 55

    Not the best picture, but my brother made this for Mother’s Day dessert.

  56. 56
    MikeJ says:

    @The prophet Nostradumbass: Nice!

    I took my mom out for dinner. The woman at the table behind us were going on about how at least Bush would stand up to terrorists. Mom & Dad got to shade their faces as I loudly told them that nobody is standing up to bin Laden now unless they have a submarine.

  57. 57
    Debbie(aussie) says:

    Can someone please point me in the right direction to understand what the hell this categorisation is all about.(ignorance now flashing) never heard of it before but sounds interesting.

  58. 58
    Debbie(aussie) says:

    This might give some of you a bit of a laugh too.
    http://delimiter.com.au/2013/0.....f-thrones/

  59. 59
  60. 60
    Debbie(aussie) says:

    Ok, googled- have heard of Dungeons & Dragons, never AD&D and not the categories. More research!

  61. 61
    Debbie(aussie) says:

    @Nerdlinger:
    Thanks, helps immensely. And it is as Interesting as it sounded.
    Gawd, I feel old and really out of touch. But I have book as over-flowing with fantasy.

  62. 62
    daveNYC says:

    I think Joffrey is actually just straight up evil. That’s actually a legit AD&D allignment, though the only thing I remember having it was some small worm thing that was what happened to the soul of someone who ended up in one of the evil afterlifes.

    Basically though, Joffery doesn’t show much in the way of what I would consider L/N/C traits. He doesn’t have a code or keep his word, he’s not a wild and crazy guy, nor does he split the difference in any real way. He’s basically just weak willed except for the fact that he wants to hurt people.

  63. 63
    raven says:

    Make this thread stop, please.

  64. 64
    raven says:

    Oh boy Scarborough is going off the rails about the IRS! “It’s chilling, it’s frightening!”

  65. 65
    raven says:

    Willie “Is their any indication the administration had any knowledge or involvement in this?” Lisa Meyers “ZERO, NONE, NOTHING AT ALL”.

  66. 66
    geg6 says:

    Wow. This like wandering into a room, seeing dozens of people I know and finding out they can only speak Chinese now. And I can’t.

    Outta here!

  67. 67
    raven says:

    @geg6: I hear ya!

  68. 68
    gene108 says:

    Good lord, what is wrong with some of you people?

    Littlefinger chaotic?

    The guy works within the system and doesn’t break any laws.

    He’s Lawful Evil or at the most Neutral Evil.

  69. 69
    JPL says:

    @raven: Have fun today! When do you return to the land of rednecks?

  70. 70
    Schlemizel says:

    @raven:

    This one has me upset for 2 reasons

    First – The government has a lot of power and I don’t want it targeted any any one group specifically. This is a bad thing and I want to know how and why it happened.

    Second – it gives a very real body to the grievances of the baggers. This will feed their paranoia and anger and be the response any time someone laughs at one of their paranoid delusions.

  71. 71
    jayackroyd says:

    @sherparick: We’re still a season behind, on the netflix viewing plan, so I can’t talk about this season. I’ve read the books. When I said something to Mrs Jay (she hasn’t read the books) about Jaime she looked at me like I was a psychopath.

    Great characters. (And I have no idea what Cole is talking about other than it involves some role playing game.)

  72. 72
    geg6 says:

    @Schlemizel:

    The Baggers can take their whining and blow it out their asses. The Bushies sicced the IRS on plenty of liberal and anti-war groups during that abomination of an administation, many actually costing the organizations institutional funds, outside funding and some lost their tax exemptions. ACORN was hounded and refunded and destroyed by these fuckers. They tried to do the same to Planned Parenthood, which has failed so far but which they relentlessly continue to attempt. No Tea Party organizations were sanctioned, they had their tax exemptions approved, and they got a public apology. Add in the gritting and financial hanky panky of the 1%ers who fund the Tea Party groups and forgive me if I don’t feel much need to determine why it may seem prudent to give them a bit of extra oversight.

  73. 73
    Zandar says:

    I agree with MGK’s chart there.

    Littlefinger is the towering epitome of Lawful Evil (master working the system for your own personal game at the expense of others). Varys is also classic Lawful Neutral (Preserve the order of realm of Westeros no matter who has to die). Joffrey is all of Chaotic Evil as it gets (He believes as king he *is* the system, and rules by caprice bordering on sociopathic madness.)

    Likewise, characters change. Jon Snow has gone from Lawful Good (he actually believes in the code of the Night’s Watch and its mission) to Chaotic Good (he’s abandoned that code to run with Team Mance and Ygritte and loses more and more of his personal code daily.) Arya goes from Chaotic Good (punching bullies and swording things) to True Neutral (“The One True God is Death” she tells Berric.) Dany goes from Chaotic Neutral (Whatever, as long as I’m with Drogo) to Neutral Good (I will free the slaves of the these city-states by whatever means I can and use them in my army of Good and Awesome, now with Dragons.)

    One constant however. Starks make terrible decisions. Competence doesn’t have an alignment.

  74. 74
    Schlemizel says:

    @geg6:

    I agree with your comments about the previous administration and the baggers. I probably was not clear that my concern there is that they now will seem justified and will always have this as a comeback when someone tries to explain that there are no FEMA camps etc. It just feeds their paranoia.

  75. 75
    gene108 says:

    The Smithsonian Channel had a documentary about McCarthy/McCarthyism this morning.

    What struck me as interesting is how Republican ratfucking basically got it’s start in the Red Scare era, with Tail Gunner Joe and Nixon, though McCarthy was initially the more public face of ratfucking.

    1. He wined and dined the media to get favorable access/coverage.
    2. Nixon and other Republicans happily rode his witch hunt, as long as it was directed at a Democratic administration.
    3. McCarthy only got into trouble because he didn’t “stand down”, once Republicans got control of the White House.

    Pretty much all modern Republican ratfucking starts with Nixon and his acolytes. And Nixon got his start redbaiting in the 1940’s.

    The rot within the Republican Party goes back a very, very long way. A lot longer than I originally thought.

  76. 76
    jayackroyd says:

    Inferring away with these categories. So which is Omar? Or, I guess, I should ask whether this been done with the Wire? And has Aiden Gillen become typecast across all universes?

  77. 77
    jayackroyd says:

    @gene108:

    It’s worth rereading, periodically, this piece by Rick Pearlstein on the historical alignment of the parties.

  78. 78
  79. 79
    Butch says:

    Once again on the trailing edge of culture – what the hell is a GoT?

  80. 80
    jayackroyd says:

    @Morbo: Thanks! That was very helpful.

  81. 81
    Cassidy says:

    GoT is GURP’s.

  82. 82
    Steeplejack (tablet) says:

    @Butch:

    Game of Thrones on HBO.

  83. 83
    Crop Dusted says:

    “No spoilers, but a lot of really big plot turns tonight…”

    There are at least two things wrong with this clause. First of all, for those of us who don’t even want to see the expressions on faces of people leaving the movie we are about to see, to announce that there are “really big plot turns” is in fact a spoiler.

    Second, what GoT were you watching? Was there a single “plot turn,” big or otherwise? (sorry, even to ask the question is a spoiler, but it was rhetorical–i.e., there were no frigging “plot turns.”)

  84. 84
    MC Simon Milligan says:

    GoT, or, rather, ASoIaF, is way too big a deconstructor fleet to allow alignment pegging.

  85. 85
    John says:

    D&D alignments are stupid. The Palladium Role Playing alignment system is far superior and corresponds much better to how human beings actually act. {/super nerd}

  86. 86
    Medicine Man says:

    Littlefinger is out to protect the interests of one person, Littlefinger. While it hasn’t been shown (or happened) yet in the HBO show, Petyr Baelish is behind two rather significant assassinations, both engineered specifically to create opportunities for himself–and to prevent his rivals from securing their own power. While he does indeed appear to be the archetypical magnificent bastard there is simply no way he is Lawful Evil. Varys’ observations and interaction with him, particularly Petyr’s monologue at the end of the episode “Climb” (chaos is a ladder, etc), tend to be dead giveaways as to his nature. He is definately NE or CE. For my part I think Littlefinger is that rarely seen species of Chaotic Evil mastermind; devoid of compassion, 100% motivated by self interest, quick to break the rules when he can get away with it.

  87. 87
    Gopher2b says:

    @Draven:

    Littlefinger is evil fo sure

  88. 88
    Gopher2b says:

    @Zandar:

    Can the King be anything but Lawful?

  89. 89
    Phoenician in a time of Romans says:

    @red dog:

    Ygritte is the only one I trust beside Hodor of course.

    I suggest you start drinking heavily about halfway through next season then…

  90. 90
    Phoenician in a time of Romans says:

    Let me help:

    Littlefinger – Chaotic Conniving
    Cersai – Clueless Conniving

    Joffrey – Backpfeifengesicht Evil
    Tywin – Competent Evil
    Tyrion – Conniving Good
    Jaime – Regretful Neutral

    Varys – Reflecting Whatever
    Arya – Revengeful Neutral
    Sansa – Clueless Romantic
    Ned – Headless Good
    Ygrette – Chaotic Sexy
    Jon Snow – Sexy knows nothing

    Theon – Clueless Conniving
    Stannis – Lawful Asshole
    Margeary – Competent Conniving
    Lady Olan – Omnicompetent Conniving

  91. 91
    Phoenician in a time of Romans says:

    @gene108:

    Littlefinger chaotic?

    The guy works within the system and doesn’t break any laws.

    Not quite – he works within the system when he can advance (*), and when he can’t, he shatters stability so he can profit by picking up the pieces (**).

    (*) i.e. right up to the point of being “Master of Coin” with a piddly little feudal holding.

    (**) i.e. De jure title to Harrenhall, regency in the Vale, and a good chance of uniting the Vale and the North through occupation of Sansa Stark’s teenaged body.

  92. 92
    Medicine Man says:

    @Phoenician in a time of Romans:

    Not to mention his very recent monologue where he tells Varys upfront that he regards tradition as lies agreed upon and that gaming the system to advance is the only real social construct worth acknowledging. A man who has no convictions regarding the shape of society but bends to the rules when convenient and safe is not necessarily “lawful”. Compare and contrast Petyr’s motives and views to Tywin’s or Varys’, two obviously lawful characters.

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