In the 21st century, a US President not wanting to invade somebody is apparently news.
Open thready thing.
by Zandar| 111 Comments
This post is in: Foreign Affairs, Open Threads
In the 21st century, a US President not wanting to invade somebody is apparently news.
Open thready thing.
Comments are closed.
chopper
Benghazi!!!!
Redshirt
@chopper: Damn! You beat me to it.
BENGHAZI x 4!!!
Elizabelle
It was a terrific press conference.
Do yourself a favor and watch the whole thing later today; don’t be satisfied with whatever bites and cherry-picking the MSM provides.
gogol's wife
Just the picture of Lindsay Graham in the paper yesterday made me ill. They really want to have perpetual war, don’t they? But God forbid we should pay taxes to take care of our own poor and elderly people.
Hill Dweller
Don’t let anyone ever tell you the Republicans don’t lead the beltway around by the nose.
The Republicans released their ridiculous Benghazi report blaming Hillary last week, and accusing her of engaging in a cover-up. Issa said he was having additional hearings. While my car was being inspected yesterday, Fox was on the TV in the waiting area; and they were pushing Benghazi hard.
Obviously, wingnuts have decided to make another push in hopes of bringing it back to the top of the news. Judging from the twitter machine, the WHPC is dutifully doing their part to make it happen.
ranchandsyrup
Spies Like Us military strategery: An unused weapon is a useless weapon.
Everything you need to know is in an 80’s movie somewhere.
? Martin
@gogol’s wife:
Hmm. Which of these will sell more newspapers?
Comrade Jake
I’m glad to see him returning to this, even if I don’t think he has any chance of pulling it off.
Gin & Tonic
Me, I’m more taken with the story that’s floated up of some moron in NH who lost $2,600 in a carnival game. He says the game was rigged. Imagine, a carnival game, being rigged?
Live free or die, baby!
PIGL
@Comrade Jake: Here’s another reason to close Gitmo: it is a diabolical injustice. Most, if not all, of the prisoners it holds are innocent of any crime, and even those guilty of something or other are beyond conviction.
askew
The entire press conference was excellent.
However, I just watched a segment on Syria on Now with Alex Wagner and the media, GOP and Clintonistas in the Dem party are pushing hard for a war in Syria. It looks like none of them learned a damn thing from the Iraq War.
Redshirt
A weird radio ad has popped up here on Maine sports radio:
From the National Wildlife Association, asking us to thanks Senator Collins for saving our environment from mercury and other toxins.
A cool sentiment, in a vacuum, but, hello? Republican Senator there, why does she get credit for anything like that?
Did I miss some news?
ranchandsyrup
h/t ABL: hey remember when POTUS ordered Gitmo closed and Congress said no? Like, four years ago? Yeah. That. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/28788175/ns/politics-white_house/t/obama-orders-cia-prisons-guantanamo-shut/#.TpYL1k_6NJE …
some guy
A President unwilling to take Israeli disinformation at face value? A President unwilling to arm Al Qaeda and willy nilly give them cover?
man, times sure have changed.
Violet
@gogol’s wife:
Wish the Democrats would start talking up government and pointing out it’s a good thing. The whole Reagan “Scariest nine words in the English language are ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help'” thing is old and tired. Pointing out the good thing government does: Disaster relief, finding the Boston bomber, fixing roads, paying for grandma’s hip replacement, etc., etc. might help point out that government isn’t always a bad thing.
Dems have bought into the “government = bad” framing for far too long. It’s not bad, it’s good. It does a ton of good stuff. Own it.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@PIGL: What do we do with them? I’ve been trying to think of a good solution to that. If we divide them into those that are innocent, and those that are guilty of something, where do we send them? A lot of the countries they came from will not take them back. And a lot of them wouldn’t be safe here, sadly.
And, no, I don’t consider this an argument for keeping Gitmo open.
lol
but but hes worse than bush he sold us out
BGinCHI
Isn’t getting militarily involved in Syria polling badly?
Seems the beltway media and the chickenhawks are for this, but the American people aren’t. Could it be because it drives ratings and allows mere Senators to act like they really have some power?
It’s really this fucking simple, isn’t it?
El Cid
Why don’t we do some major military action anyway and just see what happens? Sure, it might turn out horrifically for Syrians there and for us here and even for lots of other places, but so what? Wars are fucking awesome, there’s a lot of shit blowing up and footage of cool planes and stuff. And anyway, the Founding Fathers didn’t all meet in Philadelphia to debate and write the Second Amendment and its accompanying Constitution just so we’d stay out of wars because it looked like it might have all sorts of negative consequences.
Southern Beale
Honestly, I know catching Michele Bachmann in a lie is easier than taking a lollipop from a baby but when the hell is she going to realize that this is the internet age and people can actually look this stuff up?
Violet
@BGinCHI: Americans are sick of war. There would have to be a real justification to turn public sentiment. We haven’t had an attack like we did on 9/11 that can be justification for a war. The Boston bombers were Chechen, so that doesn’t help the Syrian war cause.
Of course it can happen with a concerted GOP and MSM effort, but without the catalyst event, I don’t think the American public will be as easily convinced.
Redshirt
@Southern Beale: I’ve become convinced, Bachmann perhaps withstanding, that deliberate lying is now a pillar of Republican operations. Like literally, part of the plan. And why not? Even if they get called out on it, it will only be by the “Liberal Media” and Fox will be there to dispute it. Both sides, after all.
Amir Khalid
@PIGL:
Problem is, once you close Gitmo the detainees have to go somewhere. Obviously, you want to try the few (if any) who can actually be tried. The rest you must let go, if you really want an end to Gitmo.
But to where? If their home countries (where they’d be considered security risks) won’t take them back, and no third country (ditto) will have them, that leaves only the US (ditto). I can well imagine the reaction from the Republican party, and the blue-dog Democrats, when Obama or Kerry says that any Gitmo detainees unwanted elsewhere can stay in America.
ETA: Dang. Belafon beat me to it.
Elizabelle
@Violet:
Your comment 15: word.
Violet
@Southern Beale: She’s not very bright, is she?
Redshirt
@Amir Khalid: Hell, we should give them Obamaphones, food stamps, and subsidized housing! That would play great on the Liberal Media.
El Cid
@Violet: The Founding Fathers (whom conservatives have all sanctified as fictional characters if not in historical figurehood) all came together to forge a government for a new country so that everyone could immediately hate government.
Cassidy
@Amir Khalid: Shit. Our country has smuggled people in and out of places before. Why is it suddenly impossible?
Schlemizel
@Southern Beale:
Sadly, the mouth breathing troglodytes that elected her, and re-elected her even after the full depth of her crazy was voluntarily laid bare, either cannot or do not read. Unless Uncle Rush tells them this or Minnesotans for Marriage forwards a chain email on it they are highly unlikely to be aware of it.
MattR
@Amir Khalid: That is a real problem. The only solution I can think of is to leave them at Gitmo but greatly improve their living conditions there.
EconWatcher
I don’t know if we’ll ever completely recover from the Bush years. It’s now a controversial thing for an accused citizen like Tsarnaev, who committed his crimes and was captured in America, to be charged and tried lawfully in a civilian court.
That wasn’t even a question before Bush’s presidency. Just by opening that box, the Bushies seem to have changed the mentality of enough people to make it a live issue.
That’s how evil works, through example that reshapes thinking. I may be an agnostic, but I’m still Catholic enough to recognize the devil’s work when I see it.
MomSense
@gogol’s wife:
God forbid we should pay taxes to fund the wars!
Comrade Jake
@Southern Beale:
LOL. I protestest, Michelle. I PROTESTEST!!!
ranchandsyrup
woah. dashcam catches 747 crash in Bagram. http://hypervocal.com/news/2013/afghan-plane-crash-dash-cam/
danimal
@BGinCHI: I suggest that Congress vote to declare war in Syria, then they have every expectation that Obama take military action.
If Congress won’t declare war, then Senators Graham, McCain and Ayotte can please stand in the corner with the war-mongering Beltway press and STFU. It really is simple.
Yutsano
@Amir Khalid: There is also the issue that they could be subject to torture (oi, as if that isn’t already happening) in their home countries because they are wanted there as well. This is especially true for the Uighurs who are there. It’s a total mishegas. Thanks again Dubya!
Amir Khalid
@Cassidy:
It would be a hella big problem to smuggle 166 guys out of Gitmo and back to the world while persuading the whole bunch to keep it all on the down-low.
Patrick
@gogol’s wife:
That’s fine. As long as these chickenhawk hypocrites sign up for their stupid wars and fight them themselves. And also, THEY should pay for their dumb wars. Why should the rest of us have to pay for THEIR wars of choice when we weren’t even attacked?
It still galls me that I have to pay for the idiotic Iraq war.
Cacti
The neocons are outraged that the POTUS is c-blocking their wargasm.
MikeJ
@Violet:
Go back to yesterday’s thread on Boston when half the people here were shitting their pants because cops wore body armor while attempting to arrest somebody who had already maimed 200 people.
muddy
@Amir Khalid: Witness protection program? The thing is that even if they were not any kind of security risk to begin with they may well be now. I’m sure I would be pretty radicalized after that.
I brought my rottweiler to a new vet once, the vet said he had to be muzzled before any kind of exam. The dog was really mad about the muzzle, and I decided to get another vet. The first vet says, After a few times he won’t have to wear it anymore! I said he will always need to have it now, because now he hates you.
Villago Delenda Est
@askew:
Well, naturally. None of them, or any of their children, were there.
So they learned nothing.
Trollhattan
@Comrade Jake:
So long as terrorists, enemy combatants and unlucky battlefield sweepees refuse to denounce their superpowers, we can only hold them on a remote island. I learned this from congress.
gvg
He might not be able to do it but somehow I think the fact that he is demonstrating he didn’t “forget” his campaign promises, leaves the future presidents more able to do it and the party looking better.Also reminds people he actually tried and it wasn’t him that stopped it.
I think we need to call the obstructionists cowards. thats how I see them. Afraid of the bogey man under the bed-what will they do when a real danger shows up? Keep them away from power…they’ll panic.
Elie
@Violet:
This… it is NOT helpful for democrats to do this.. and plenty even on this site… You can’t do that….it hurts us and who we must protect — because no one else is..
Eric U.
@Patrick: well, that’s just the thing isn’t it? They pay no cost. It’s the rest of us that have a trashed economy and a trashed social safety net that pay the price. They are probably looking at their defense stocks thinking they need to make a better return. And when the soldiers need something as a result of their little vanity wars, it’s all, “they knew what they were getting into when they signed up.” Sickening. I would love to send Graham, Grampa Walnuts, and GWBush over to Syria with sharpened sticks to defend themselves with, but nothing like that is ever going to happen.
Trollhattan
@ranchandsyrup:
Good god, those poor people. Unnecessary observation: a 747 is a BIG stinking airplane, and that went into the ground pronto. Could have been a trick of the camera, but it appeared to be climbing far too steeply–control failure?
Cacti
I know this won’t happen, but I’d love to see the POTUS call the neocons bluff on Syria and Iran…
Ask for an AUMF that includes reinstatement of the draft and a war tax to finance it.
El Cid
Hey, don’t get so bent out of shape about it.
If the whole thing goes haywire after we invade or bomb or targeted-this or surgical-that or analogy-other, we know how to fix it all up perfect and licket-split with our awesome new COIN knowledge and a SURGE.
Once we do the SURGE, everything gets better, and the mess goes off of the TV screens, so it’s fixed.
And in the leadup to both the war / super-clean-precision-whatchamacallit this time-action and to the SURGE, you can count on all sober media and political types to fall in line.
Especially on the latter, because they’ll all go around, greeting each other by sniffing each other’s ass and barking louder, ‘BUT YOU ADMIT THAT THE SURGE IS WORKING,’ and that’s how they know they can get along.
El Caganer
Good for the President. I’m not a fan, but he’s showing some genuine leadership here – the smarts to know that war in Syria is bullshit, and the stones to say so.
Amir Khalid
@Yutsano:
For some reason, FYWP has been eating my replies to you (but to no one else) since yesterday.
I concur with your comment #36.
Tokyokie
I think all Gitmo prisoners should be repatriated as permanent houseguests of Bush administration officials. If anything happens to the former prisoners, or if the former prisoners do something to anybody else (other than their new legal benefactors), the Bushies will be held legally responsible.
Fred
@Patrick: You will never pay for the war, just the interest.
ranchandsyrup
@Trollhattan: Yeah, RIP to the service members/contractors. I have the same impression you have about the steep climb but my aviation knowledge is limited.
Cacti
@El Caganer:
We tried the whole, assist an Islamist insurgency thing in Afghanistan in the 1980s.
Didn’t work out so well for us in the long run.
Violet
@Amir Khalid: The same thing has been happening to me! I can’t reply to Yutsy at all, since yesterday. I know my replies contain no unapproved words nor too many links. Interesting it’s happening to you too.
Roger Moore
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
I think the FBI has some experience protecting people who are in danger of retaliation. Run the innocent ones through the witness relocation program, put the guilty ones in Supermax, and close Gitmo forever.
Violet
@Roger Moore: Remember in 2009 when Obama wanted to move the dangerous Gitmo residents to Supermax and the GOP peed their collective pants? Home grown mass murders? Sure keep them in the super-secure Supermax. Foreign Muslin dangerous types? Too scary! Must never set foot on US soil!
Tonal Crow
And in today’s installment of “Banning guns won’t do anything to curb violence”:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-school-shootingbre93s0ht-20130429,0,1070494.story
(Reuters) – One boy was injured in a self-inflicted hubcapping on Monday in a classroom at a high school in Cincinnati, Ohio, and has been taken to a local hospital, police said.
Green Township Police Chief Bart West said the school was briefly put on lockdown after the student pulled out a Chevy hubcap and beat himself silly with it in a classroom early Monday. The lockdown has since been lifted.
…
He said the student who hubcapped himself was being taken to University of Cincinnati Medical Center. He did not know the wounded student’s condition.
It initially appeared that a second person might have been involved in the hubcapping at La Salle, an all-boys private college-preparation school in Cincinnati….
PIGL
@Amir Khalid: Give each of them lots of money, a passport, a plain ticket and case officer to see to their well being for the ret of their lives. Or shoot them. The difficulties America faces in resolving the issue are America’s problems, and should rebound further on those poor unfortunates.
PeakVT
@Trollhattan: Load shift (backwards and down, I would image) is the early speculation. Reportedly the crew said something to that effect on the radio before the crash.
Amir Khalid
@Violet:
Hmm. I wonder what Yutsano did to anger the FYWP deities.
gene108
@BGinCHI:
I personally wish someone would bring up the use of US troops for a vote. Even Republican voters don’t want another war.
Let the Congressional Republicans nut up and vote for war or STFU.
Also, too anyone voting for war with Syria is inviting both a primary challenge and providing fodder for attack ads.
ranchandsyrup
@Violet: Happened to me too a couple of days ago. FYWP has become self-aware.
Eric U.
@Trollhattan: I suspect they are required to do a max climb takeoff to avoid small arms/ground fire. Guessing they didn’t notice that they had exceeded max climb rate until after the plane departed and it’s really hard to recover from a stall like that so close to the ground.
gbear
@El Caganer: Showing smarts and good leadership. Hmm. Maybe it’s time to become a fan?
Villago Delenda Est
@Amir Khalid:
You’re pissing off Apollo. Stop it.
catclub
@Violet: How about making a new post and writing @ Yutsano Comment #99 or some such.
Trollhattan
@PeakVT: @Eric U.:
One issue might have led to the second. If they have to climb unusuallly steeply for security purposes, the steep angle and hard acceleration could perhaps cause a poorly secured load to break free. And that would be that.
Have flown out of National a few times and HATE it. They climb what seems vertically, then cut power while clearing D.C., then again climb like the dickens. (At least that’s how they used to do it.) Me no like.
Villago Delenda Est
@Cacti:
Who gives a rat’s ass about the long run? Short term ROI, as reflected in the statements of the current fiscal quarter, is the only thing that matters. Well, except for shorting key stocks for a quick profit, of course.
Amir Khalid
@PIGL:
What I’m afraid of is that someone (we all know whom I’m thinking of, right?) might, quite seriously, recommend shooting the lot of them as the simplest way out.
Patrick
@Violet:
I remember one of the big 3 TV news networks had a segment on this when it was discussed in 2009. They interviewed a young women in her mid-thirties. She was shown with her one-year old child. She was asked about moving the prisoners from Gitmo to a Supermax facility in her own state. She always cried when she said how scared she would be if they were to be imprisoned in her state. Needless to say, she was totally opposed to it. And it was people like her that led the Democratic wimps in Congress to oppose their own President on this issue. So called progressives like Sanders voted no to close it.
Why is it that some folks in our country seem to think that Al-Queda is some kind of supermen who can easily escape any kind of prison made in America?
El Caganer
@gbear: Naw, but I think it’s important to give credit where it’s due. If you’ve got kind of fringe political views, left or right, you need to work extra-hard to look at things objectively. Otherwise, you start believing your own prejudices and fantasies and paranoia, and wind up becoming just another wingnut.
different-church-lady
The fact that Obama seems reluctant to invade Syria proves he wants to invade Syria.
/professional-left-blog-commenter
Violet
@catclub: I can probably do that. The FYWP hit yesterday and I couldn’t figure out what was going on. When Amir Khalid posted his problem with replying to Yutsano, I realized I was having that same problem. Looks like we’re not the only ones.
PeakVT
@Trollhattan: I used to work right in the northbound flight path of DCA. The path was takeoff, immediate sharp left bank, and then a climb right over the building (but well above it by the time the plane reached it). An approach from the north would bring the plane much closer vertically but to the east over the Potomac River.
Violet
@Patrick:
The Bush administration painted them that way and with a full assist from the MSM and the horror of 9/11 more recent, people bought into it. It was stupid because it only serves to empower them and how does that help us? It doesn’t.
I’m encouraged by the response to the recent bombings. Boston’s “It’s our fucking city”, the uncle calling them losers and the government treating them like criminals, not some global jihadist conspiracy act. The Republicans are trying to up the fear quotient, but it doesn’t seem to be working as well as they want.
BGinCHI
@gene108: Agreed. But gosh, why vote when you can just grandstand and pledge other people’s blood to the cause?
Sic semper cowardice.
TooManyJens
@Yutsano: testing
ETA: Huh. Worked for me. Firefox 20 on a Mac, FWIW.
joes527
@Violet:
FTFY
*yeah, I wish we could drop this turd on the GOPs lap, but I’m afraid in this case both sides did it.
Chris
@Patrick:
More to the point, why do we even HAVE prisons if they’re so easy to escape? In theory I wouldn’t mind having a conversation about that, but I’m afraid it would simply devolve into the right wing saying “you know, you’re right” and then taking the position that anyone who breaks the law in any capacity should simply be executed on the spot (preferably followed by a Stallone quip). For a Safe and Secure Society!
danimal
I pulled the short straw and read Sullivan’s blog today. With political advice like this, ex-President Obama would be sending postcards from his detention cell as President Romney stimulates the economy with a triple-sized Bushian tax cut, paid for with soothing promises, as the weeping Bowles-Simpson duo applies for asylum while their austerity program is ceremonially flushed down the toilet (where it belongs).
sacrablue
Is anyone else having problems with molasses in their intertubes. It is intermittent and affects different websites at different times. At the moment, I can’t search anything on the Google. Three minutes ago, I couldn’t access the comments on this thread. This has been happening since Thursday. Yesterday, things were good, now not so much. Any ideas?
Omnes Omnibus
@sacrablue: I have had problems on this site recently. I am running scans to see if it is me.
Laur
@Trollhattan: I think they climb that steeply to avoid ground fire from small arms/rockets/RPGs
Mnemosyne
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
It’s too bad that the whole idea of parole has been so debased by the crime-n-more-punishment crowd, because a supervised release in the US for the nonviolent prisoners with, say, 5 years of check-ins with the feds would seem to be the most rational thing to do. It’s not like they’re going to be able to disappear into the population like Eric Rudolph did.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@sacrablue:
Try running Ping and Traceroute. The latter can show you where you’re slowing down.
Instructions HERE.
Zandar
Can we move Lindsey Graham to Supermax, then challenge him to break out? Because it’s so easy that terr’ists can do it?
sacrablue
@Omnes Omnibus: If it were just this site, I would just ignore it and wait it out. But it is every site that I have tried. Sites that were fine yesterday I couldn’t access this morning, but I can now and vice versa. I’m a tech incompetent and this is driving me insane.
sacrablue
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: Thanks, I’ll try it. If I fail I guess I will have to ask my spouse for help. He is just ignoring the problem even though he is having the same issues.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Zandar:
Lindsey Graham probably knows that breaking out of a Supermax is damned near impossible. He definitely knows that The Terrorist Threat® is a goldmine of opportunities for grandstanding as well as maintaining the pants-wetting fear of the Other that’s so much a staple of Republican politics.
Hal
I’m wondering how high voter turnout is going to be today for the ma special election? Markey seems a shoe in on the dem side.
Ted & Hellen
Hey! There’s a “giant celestial hurricane” on Saturn right now!
Here’s one of Tom Levenson’s unretouched, unphotoshopped, and highly accurate “pictures” of it!
No, really, here is is!
So cool! But that’s not all! Here’s another picture of the same storm but strangely enough, it looks all different and stuff.
But look, here’s another one and this awesomely accurate photograph looks even more different from the other two and it’s all so confusing because Tom says NASA would never colorize things for dramatic effect or anything.
Can someone tell me what the storm on Saturn really looks like?! Tom?
Frankensteinbeck
@different-church-lady:
Mclaren informed me that we’re in 3-4 permanent unwinnable wars, thanks to Obama!
@joes527:
It’s the only thing congress agrees on. The ONLY thing. They’re split on the defense budget, on raising taxes, on publicly slashing Medicare, on supporting Israel – all of the old sacred cows are dead. But they’re so determined that Bush’s war on terror efforts will stand that they retroactively declared all the torture he did legal and valid testimony in a court of law. The latter seems weird, since they won’t let those same prisoners get a trial, but what the Hell. They vote for this stuff with insane, veto-crushing unanimity. I can’t explain it, so I don’t have a clue what we can do about it.
nellcote
Sen. Bernie Sanders voted AGAINST closing Gitmo.
Elizabelle
@sacrablue:
Glad to hear my MacBook is not the only laptop struggling.
Can you imagine how at sea we will all feel if ever we have a major internet disruption — like none, or slow loading that makes you wish for dial-up?
El Cid
@Ted & Hellen: I admire your dedication to a truly odd crusade.
sacrablue
@Elizabelle: My old dial-up was faster than what I’m dealing with currently. Reading this blog is the only thing keeping me even just close to sane at the moment. If I lose the internet I probably will lose my mind.
El Cid
Protestify!
Randy P
@Ted & Hellen: Tom says NASA would never colorize things for dramatic effect or anything.
I don’t know whether Tom says that, but of course they do. Or more accurately, to highlight particular features, or to show a visible image of something which was taken at radio wavelengths, or infrared, or otherwise NOT VISIBLE TO THE HUMAN EYE.
And when they do that, they use the key words “false color image”. When you see the words “false color” that would be your clue that those are not the real colors. As does the colored image I found with this article at The Independent.
Now, your source may not
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/nasa-images-reveal-mammoth-storm-on-saturn-20-times-bigger-than-average-earth-hurricane-8597278.html
However, admittedly you don’t see that caption till you click on the image. But that isn’t NASA’s fault, and isn’t some nefarious plot to suppress whatever you think they’re suppressing.
different-church-lady
@Ted & Hellen:
Probably very similar to a CAT scan of the odd swirlings in your brain.
PeakVT
@different-church-lady: Win.
eclecticbrotha
Right now, Ryan Grim is on MSNBC repeatedly stating Drudge is a reliable news source and neither Bashir or Jonathan Alter is challenging his assertion.
Amir Khalid
@Randy P:
Tom Levenson once dedicated an entire post to explaining this point just for T&H’s benefit, because Tom really cares like that. But alas, it all flew right over our friend’s head.
Another Halocene Human
@Redshirt: You didn’t miss anything. Smell of desperation. Maine is the last New England state to flip political affiliation. (NH doesn’t count… it has had Dem majority in the last 20 years and their Republicans are kinda upstate NY GOP vs. old skool New England GOP, though most recently they’ve been national Republicans GOP so I expect that their last electoral creaming will be surpassed by the next one.)
David Koch
just words. he didn’t really mean it. he only said it because we forced him to. he’s bush’s 4th term. chuck hagel!
cain
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
Lindsay will sleep his way out. When he finally leaves every marine will feel satisfied.
El Cid
@Amir Khalid: You and your fellow traveling spectral conspiracists might think you can talk your way out of your deceptive pseudo-colorist radicalism, but we in the Primate Color Receptor Naturalism Defense League will be here to stop you.
Origuy
@Ted & Hellen: Spectrumist! Why should the wavelengths your feeble eyes can detect be the only ones worth paying attention to?
El Cid
@Origuy: I oppose the very notion of “color”. The only colors should be numerical in nature, likewise for brightness / dimness.
The opthofavoritists think they have won, but the struggle continues.
Redshirt
Pshaw! Who needs eyes! Skip the middle man and absorb the electromagnetic spectrum directly to your brain, like me!