Dave Weigel used this clip recently, in an entirely different context, and inspired in me a fierce bout of the-opposite-of-nostalgia. I was one of those deluded Dukakis voters (I may have been one of the three women in America who though Mike was sexy) who believed America was ready for a grown-up president after eight years of Republican fairytales, juvenile cruelty and senile dementia.
When the reported vote totals started coming in on the tv (no internet for commoners, in those days) I told my politically-minded friends that I suspected Lee Atwater and his fellow ratfckers had somehow gamed just enough electronic voting systems to guarantee themselves the win that all the exit polling was denying. They, of course, rejected my whole premise as bootless conspiracy theorizing — the technology to do so simply didn’t exist, I was told. And besides, this was America, where such a wildeyed scheme of treason would surely be exposed as soon as more than the tiniest cadre of true believers heard about it. Look at Watergate!
We sure have come a long way in these past twenty-five years, haven’t we?
Hill Dweller
Republicans don’t even try to hide voter suppression these days.
PurpleGirl
No comment on Dukakis’s sexy quotient.
But I did vote for him. It would have been nice to have someone as grown up and sane as he seemed as president.
AA+ Bonds
What’s this crush some of the FP has on Weigel’s blog? It’s a propaganda outlet.
Anne Laurie
@AA+ Bonds: Weigel reports on the GOP idiots so I don’t have to read Free Republic.
Don’t always agree with his conclusions, but he’s a decent reporter, and I find it healthier than recycling our righteous anger at BoBo Brooks’ or Peggy Noonan’s latest outrage.
Arclite
I’m sure there was some skulduggery against Dukakis back in the day, but definitely not much (there weren’t the kind of opportunities that existed later). And it wouldn’t have made a difference in the outcome anyway. Dukakis was pretty roundly crushed. Combine a short, uncharismatic candidate (though certainly intelligent and competent) with Atwater blowing the dog whistle at every opportunity, and it’s surprising he carried any state other than MA. I mean, Christ on a stick, he couldn’t even carry CT.
And charisma matters. My G’ma in Cali (RIP) said she used to vote Reagan because (quote) “he looked good on TV.”
It’s a pet theory of mine that Obama’s charisma offsets the votes he loses because he’s a Scary Black Man, and was thus able to dominate two elections.
Cacti
The 1988 election was in my pre-voting days, but it was the first one that I was old enough to seriously follow.
The thing I remember most from that cycle was my Republican parents’ relief at Gary Hart’s bimbo eruption, as they considered him the only real threat to topple Bush.
JenJen
I’ll cop to finding Duke sexaaaay way back then, as a college student even!
Remember the horrific Bernard Shaw (CNN) debate question, “Governor, if Kitty Dukakis were raped and murdered, would you favor an irrevocable death penalty for the killer?” It made me gasp, and set the stage for my enduring distrust of media figures.
“I can’t believe I’m losing to this guy.” – SNL, Jon Lovitz as Dukakis
Nicole
There was a sad photo in my underclass HS yearbook of the 4 of us who made up the Young Democrats holding up our Dukakis/Bentsen signs. We had these sheepish half-grins on our faces. We knew he was going to get creamed. But we kept the faith.
As to vote tampering- I had an aunt who worked in government, specifically on elections. I can’t remember her department, but it had to do with accessibility- she had some pretty funny anecdotes about calls they got on election day, including a guy in a very small precinct that closed early because everyone in the precinct (so they thought) had voted, who arrived just as the machine was being driven away, and called her department, while he was driving behind the polling machine along the highway so he didn’t lose sight of it. Anyway, I mentioned how sorry I was that our old lever machines were being phased out and groused about voter fraud and she said the old lever machines were just as easy to tamper with as anything else. It was really depressing.
Mind you, I think computerized voting allows for tampering on a much bigger scale now than was possible back in 1988. Which is also depressing.
Amir Khalid
Off topic, but I just went to the Election Commission’s site to check where I’m voting this Sunday. I entered my ID card number. I got a screen listing my personal details for verification; my Parliamentary constituency (I’m not voting in a state election, because Kuala Lumpur is a Federal Territory); the location of my polling station (a nearby school, within walking distance as it happens) and voting hours (8am to 5pm). I expect to spend ten minutes or so at the polling station. Oh, and a reminder to bring the one document I’ll need, my ID card, which we Malaysians carry at all times anyway.
Not to brag, but I remember all the gripes about voting in the last US elections: people afraid of voting-eligibility challenges, unsure what documents to bring, unable to get time off work for weekday voting, long lines etc. It’s a shame that some in your country would even want to impede voters.
Hal
@JenJen:
That was the first thing I thought of when I saw this post. Horrific question that was so over the top. The problem is Dukakis took it seriously when he should have told Shaw to stuff it.
Also, Dukakis didn’t do well, but Lloyd Bentsen had one hell of a take down with Dan Quayle. And he was the butt of jokes on a couple of Golden Girls episodes.
raven
I had a picture taken of me with the helmet on in an Abrams tank. Mos Def goofy lookin.
OzarkHillbilly
@Amir Khalid: Braggart.
OzarkHillbilly
@Amir Khalid:
Speaking of… My wife is a naturalized US citizen who speaks with a very definite accent and has a very hispanic name. I made sure to go with her and made sure she brought her passport as we live in a very red precinct, of a very red county, in a very red state. When we went in I was prepared to raise all kinds of unholy hell.
Everyone was very nice and efficient and nobody even looked at her funny. Helped that it is a very small precinct in a very out of the way place.
gene108
Interesting ad.
If taken at face value, apparently the majority of common Americans voted, in 1988, to make sure the rich get tax cuts and they get little support.
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly:
Most of the reporting on voter suppression focused on swing states. There isn’t much incentive to suppress votes in deep red states, except general assholery.
MKJ
@Amir Khalid: I am also voting in Pakistan on 11th of May. Here too you can get all these details including Serial number on voter’s list by texting your ID card number to a designated Ph no. ID card is the only document required which everyone has. My postal ballot arrived today so I will not be voting in person. However option of Postal ballot is only available to government employees.
Splitting Image
In hindsight, there are probably a hundred things Dukakis could have done differently in 1988, but it’s interesting to consider that the way he projected on stage was very similar to Barack Obama and for some of the same reasons.
Mediterranean men are often stereotyped for their hot tempers, and as a man of Greek heritage I think Dukakis may have overcompensated by projecting calmness to the point of appearing disinterested. I agree that he should have told Bernard Shaw to get bent, but if he had, the Bush campaign would have pivoted from talking about his detachment to talking about him being an unpredictable hothead. The more things change…
I saw Dukakis being interviewed at the 2008 convention, and he said that he felt the effects of Dubya’s presidency very keenly. He said something like “If I had beaten the father, no one would have ever heard of the son.”
Schlemizel
@Baud:
William Rehnquist made his bones by keeping people from voting in Arizona, one at a time. He sat at polling stations and challenged voters with accents or Hispanic surnames. He got so good at it that he set up training for other young Republicans.
There are blue precincts even in red states. The key to big wins is lots of little ones where nobody is watching
mai naem
I work with an african american woman who lives in an older heavy aa neigborhood in Phoenix. First, she got a letter(does not know who it was from) from some org. talking about the party affiliations of all her neighbors and who had voted in the last election which she found creepy and she thinks it’s illegal. I told her it’s public information. More importantly, she said the neighborhood has had the same polling station for decades. This last election,though,the old neighborhood was split up into two different polling stations and people waited for a under an hour just to be told that they were at the wrong place and the new place was about about a mile away so she said she knows there were people who just didn’t have time to go to the new place. Nobody was standing outside the new place telling these people that “hey look at this map, if you live in x area, go to the new place.” I don’t understand why the Dem party didn’t send some kind of flier.
amk
Why are we doing a pathology report on a quarter century old body ?
mai naem
OMG, I made the mistake of putting on CNBC’s Squawk Box and they’re still fucking the chicken with austerity austerity and austerity with entitlement cuts and ofcourse massive tax cuts. Jeezus, these mofos will never admit they’re wrong.
mai naem
OMG, I made the mistake of putting on CNBC’s Squawk Box and they’re still fucking the chicken with austerity austerity and austerity with entitlement cuts and ofcourse massive tax cuts. Jeezus, these mofos will never admit they’re wrong.
Baud
@Schlemizel:
Was Arizona a swing state during Rehnquist’s time? If so, my conjecture still holds. If not, there’s still the assholery catch-all.
Schlemizel
@amk:
There are only so many times you can kick Sully, Nooners, Bobo, Douchehat et al before the joy of doing it becomes dimmed. Its an open thread, lead us into uncharted territory if you want B-{D
Schlemizel
@Baud:
No, it was not. But even if it had been there are plenty of state and local elections to be ratfucked. One on the reasons the GOP controls Ohio (allowing them to gerrymand the hell out of the state) was supurb voter suppression in blue precincts.
was not disagreeing with your premise but expanding on it
mai naem
@Baud: For national elections, it was a red state.
NotMax
@Schlemizel
Okaey-dokey.
Also, too:
Baud
@Schlemizel: @mai naem:
Thanks
MikeJ
@Anne Laurie:
He’s a decent reporter on a wacky beat. I think he plays it fairly straight.
I think I have a Dukakis yard sign in the attic somewhere.
Schlemizel
@NotMax:
You just gotta love the Dutch! Imagine slinky undies with Queen Elizabeth’s seal on them . . . or better yet, DON”T! Given the relevance of monarchs in modern society it sounds like they have hit the right notes.
There was a thread here the other day about the impact of multi-drug resistance diseases. One of the lesser important ones uncommented on is that we should see a lot less of the jackass like stupidity that passes for entertainment these days. If you can die from simple things people will be less willing to do stupid shit that can open them to infection.
DId you know President Coolidges son did from an infection he got from a blister on his foot that developed while he was playing tennis at the White House? When something that simple to fix with antibiotics can once again kill kids my guess is there will be a lot less demand for skate ramps
Hawes
Dukakis lost because he ran a terrible campaign, led a party that was divided and perceived as being in Jesse Jackson’s pocket and then got hit with Willie Horton and that tank ad.
Dukakis ran for governor in a presidential race. I was young and foolish, and the onslaught of attacks and his ineffectual response swayed me. I voted for H.W. I admit it. My last Republican vote at any level. And I know now I got duped.
But the fact is, he didn’t compel me – as an ardent Democrat – to vote for him.
I used to see him in the Fens, on his way to Northeastern, picking up garbage. Awesome guy. Lousy politician.
Baud
@Hawes:
Honest question. What did you see in HW? I ask since you didn’t just not vote but voted for the republican candidate that year.
Cassidy
@Hawes:
Not much of an ardent Democrat. You vote for Democratic ideals. The face doesn’t matter much.
raven
Blinded by the light, dressed up like a douche. . .
Schlemizel
@Cassidy:
Bingo!
Even a half-hearted, wishy-washy dem is going to do less damage than a republican.
I have not been thrilled out of my socks with any of the Dem Presidential candidates (although I am moved by Obama and Clinton could sell me a space heater in Hell neither is the Dem I want to lead the country) But there has not been a Republican since John Anderson that I would trust for a minute in power (and John for maybe one minute – his positions would put him to the left of the last two Dem Presidents. Thats why the GOP helped him run as it peeled away votes that would have gone to Carter).
PurpleGirl
@NotMax: LOL. Those wacky Dutch.
Schlemizel
@raven:
I am so glad I am not the only person who hears that!
raven
One year after bringing Tim Tebow to Broadway, creating a nationwide fascination that slowly evolved into a salacious controversy, the New York Jets made the long-anticipated move Monday of releasing one of the NFL’s most popular players.
Patrick
@mai naem:
What do you expect? CNBC is a GOP propaganda outlet. Whenever I have CNBC on to check stock quotes I ALWAYS turn the sound off. I have learned this from experience.
I will never forget in 2008 during the health care debate when Maria Bartiromo asked a Democratic congressman whether he thought people would be offended having to pay for other people’s healthcare. I don’t recall Bartiromo ever asking a Republican congressman whether he thought people would be offended having paying to pay for dumb wars like the Iraq war.
Since then I always keep the sound off.
TriassicSands
Yawn. I just saw that Simpson and Bowles have a new Op-Ed up at Austerity Central, aka the Washington Post. I’m sure it is chock full of helpful ideas about how to prevent any harm to America’s 1% and how the bottom 10% need more skin in the game.
The Dilemma. Do I give in to morbid curiosity and read the essay or accept that time is precious and wasting another second of my life on the Loon from Wyoming and his pretend Democrat sidekick is a terrible idea?
I opt for life.
weaselone
@Hawes:
You forgot to add that he was from Massachusetts. That was the worst card in presidential politics until Obama trumped it with the black with a Muslim first name combo. Plus, it seems to lend credence to even the most asinine, ethically repellent attack adds.
JPL
@raven: The prayer group just got smaller.
Patricia Kayden
Christie is still praising the President. I guess he won’t be the Repub nominee in 2016.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/christie-obama–kept-every-promise-he-made-about-helping-nj-recover-from-superstorm-sandy/2013/04/29/35781944-b0c4-11e2-9fb1-62de9581c946_story.html
Amir Khalid
@Patricia Kayden:
Chris Christie sold his soul to Obama for Bruce Springsteen’s autograph! Why couldn’t he have been a Ted Nugent fan?
/Disgruntled Republican
Cassidy
@raven: He’ll be picked up quickly.
Hoodie
@Hawes: 1988 was a disaster. Cuomo and Kennedy didn’t run and Gary Hart had a bimbo eruption. Dukakis helped torpedo Joe Biden’s campaign with a leak about alleged plagiarizing of Kinnock. Never liked Dukakis that much because of that, plus he came across as a smarmy technocrat, but that said, don’t see why an ardent dem would vote for a Bush.
raven
@Cassidy: By the Rough Riders!
noodles
Anne, in retrospect, I think he was kinda hot myself.
In other news (and I’m sure it’s probably late news sinceI rarely check in) but, contributors:
Here is the video of FRECKLES ON THE TREADMILL!! after Herculean efforts on the part of his surgeons and pals to save his life.
I don’t have FB but was still able to watch it.
We done good, people. We done real good.
Amir Khalid
@noodles:
A very encouraging sight. Glad that he’s regaining his strength.
noodles
Here’s the update I received on Freckles — only one surgery shot so prepare yourselves, but the rest is good stuff and a detailed report of various procedures in their tireless effort to save this little guy and get him back on his feet. My week is made
Stella B.
I was a precinct captain for Dukakis. He wasn’t exciting, but consider who he was running against.
We’ve only had two presidents out of 44 who were not of at least partial British ancestry; Martin Van Buren and JFK. We still don’t tolerate ethnicity too well in this country.
Jeremy
@weaselone: Barack really isn’t a Muslim name. There is no such thing as a Muslim name. Barack is a Hebrew name.
Matt McIrvin
The main reference I can find to Dukakis winning the exit polls in 1988 is Richard Charnin, who thinks that every presidential election since 1988 has been massively rigged, and that unadjusted exit polls (which tend to skew much more Democratic) show the real totals:
http://richardcharnin.wordpress.com/2011/11/13/1988-2008-unadjusted-state-exit-polls-statistical-reference/
A while ago, Mark Blumenthal gave some reasons why that might not be the right conclusion:
http://www.mysterypollster.com/main/2006/07/is_rfk_jr_right.html
Ted & Hellen
No not really.
Elected Dems still can’t be bothered to do anything about this.
Including BO.
I wonder why…
Ted & Hellen
@amk:
So piss off and don’t read the thread, genius.
patty \
i was president of the county democratic club in 1988 and was a gore delegate to the state convention. i remember when dukakis became the nominee i knew, in no uncertain terms, that we were going to lose and lose big. i’m incredulous to this day that he was the nominee.
patty \
@Hoodie: don’t forget we also had gore and gephart in the race, either of whom would have had a better shot than dukakis.