Mostly people care whether the Chief Executive and Commander in Chief uses the word ‘terror’ because Patriot Act. We can torture terrorists, lock them up forever and really do anything we want. Except don’t call it torture. We don’t torture. Shut up, we don’t.
Nobody cared about the word ‘terror’ when Bush stood in front of smoking towers because back then there was nothing special about terrorists or terrorism. When people attacked us, we brought them to justice using the regular legal system or we used some combination of international relations and war to discourage them from attacking us again. Those approaches are time-consuming, uncertain and only give so much catharsis to bloody-minded people who want vengeance, including and especially the pre-emptive kind. At the same time the moral authority that such an approach confers (and the small question of whether the cowboy strategy accomplishes a damn thing) only has value in retrospect, when emotions have cooled and when you want to help cool someone else’s hot violent passions. Now all the president has to do is say the magic ‘t’ word and the world is our sandbox. It’s no wonder that people who get a hard on with every fiery death get so hung up about it.
beltane
A suspect identified? http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/17/boston-marathon-bombings-investigation-live#block-516ed80fe4b0b434f8243d44
Mnemosyne
@beltane:
I’m very nervous about any early declarations like that because of Richard Jewell, but you know that every “journalist” on the planet is now trying to find that footage (or similar footage) so they can find the guy before the cops do and get their scoop.
BruceFromOhio
As far as so-called journalists go? A brief recitation from our esteemed host:
beltane
@Mnemosyne: John King was saying “dark-skinned male”, but the surveillance pictures popping up everywhere (which could be completely bogus for all we know) are showing a rather portly white guy.
beltane
Now they’re saying an arrest has been made.
danimal
The semantic games are only necessary to confuse people and hide the truly atrocious decisions made in response to 9/11.
If we’re fighting about ‘torture’ vs ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’, we’re not arguing over imprisonment vs amnesty for a former president and veep.
c u n d gulag
Oh, goody!
Yesterday President Obama in his presser, officially called this “an act of terror.”
Now, our righties can lower their tit level, from “IN AN UPROAR!!!”, to, “Talk amongst yourselves.”
Yutsano
@Mnemosyne: I think the Granaud is jumping on this early because it can throw up free advertising for Lord & Taylor. They seem to go out of their way to mention the name of the store in the article.
Ben Franklin
Breaking;
CNN reporting arrest made due to surveillance cameras from Lord and taylor dept store.
aimai
The only reason it matters is because its a Democrat in the White House. Its just another form of magical thinking about words and the attempt to create a shibboleth which will enable true believers/good people to recognize the evildoers among us. Its just the verbal version of the flag pin–the reasoning goes like this “Since President Obama is an incompetent manchurian candidate of a muslim he must be trying to undermine our security and safety. This is just one of the ways good people can know that this is true. They can check his coat for flag pins and they can listen to his words to prove that he isn’t serious about protecting us.” It didn’t apply to Bush because the left wing isn’t half as crazy as the right wing.
jl
Whoever did it, whether they are AQ, lefty or righty or nutty, a group of people or lone wolves, I hope, and assume, that they are brought to trial in criminal justice system, rather than Gitmoed. That will not be semantics.
Still many probably innocent people rotting away in Gitmo, which makes me sick and ashamed for my country.
Some people rotting in Gitmo probably not innocent, and what to with those is at this point a difficult issue. It need not have been so difficult an issue if the US leadership (Edit, that is, crumbums like Dub and Cheney and Rummy) had some discipline from the beginning.
But there are some probably innocent people there and it is just wrong.
Edit: Anyway, if it does turn out to be foreign influenced terrorist act, related in any way to radical Islam, I hope no Gitmo talk erupts from the peanut gallery.
Frankensteinbeck
@aimai:
What Aimai said. People care about whether the word ‘terror’ was used because it’s an excuse for the desperate to claim Obama is weak. That’s it.
aimai
@jl:
There are a huge number of people who are entirely innocent and always were at Gitmo. Its absolutely criminal that the Bush regime didn’t care enough and the Obama administration couldn’t find a way out of this tangle. But every problem doesn’t have a solution, no matter how much we would wish it did. Bush knew that when he left Obama this poison pill–among other things I don’t think Obama’s people could find any countries/safe havens where these guys could be repatriated.
beltane
Here is the livefeed from WCVB in Boston: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/17/boston-marathon-bombings-investigation-live#block-516ed80fe4b0b434f8243d44
greenergood
I went to HuffPo for ‘Suspect identified’, and while that was an uninformative 30 seconds of my life, I looked through some of the ‘Warning: Graphic!’ photos, which I normally would avoid. Some of the bloody and graphic photos are the type that we don’t see about the everyday bombings and dronings in Brown-people Lands, and maybe people here might connect their experience with the people for whom this is a common occurrence. What struck me was the incredible fortune of the Boston bombs going off near the B Marathon’s medical tent with all their expertise and facilities, the close vicinity of excellent medical hospitals, the fact that a lot of people there were already physically very fit, and able to run away from harm (or run towards, to help people). This could’ve been so much, much worse – I definitely don’t want it to have been worse, but figuratively Boston dodged a much bigger bullet, and for that I am, what? Sorrowful for those lost and injured, relieved that there are less than could have been.
Trollhattan
Random WaPo comment.
Nope, not Michele Bachmann, but “hobo.ken.” He’d make a shitty hobo.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Republicans made this non-issue an issue because they wanted to A) make a scandal out of Benghazi and/in order to B) minimize the idea that killing Bin Laden was an achievement. The media doesn’t even know why they think it’s an issue. What’s that Ani DiFranco line about goldfish always wanting to see the other side of the bowl?
Has anyone asked Rick Perry if this is ZOMG! TERROR! ?
I think it is, but I don’t care how anybody talks about it while the investigation goes on.
Trollhattan
FWIW:
Tonal Crow
Christ on a crutch Tim, Republicans hardly care what Obama says. What he says or doesn’t say, and when he says or doesn’t say it, and whether he uses a teleprompter or speaks extemporaneously, doesn’t matter because all of it gives them an opening to spout propaganda about Obama, liberals, Democrats, DFHs, gays, whales, gay whales, “eco-terrorists”, and whatever other bogeyman is on their daily propaganda sheets.
Propaganda and bullshit (and bullshit propaganda) are the alpha and the omega of Republican discourse.
Thomas F
The framework for the Patriot Act was honed during the Clinton Administration, as was the practice of extraordinary rendition. President Clinton also reserved to the United States the right to arbitrarily bomb foreign countries with which it had not declared war. The case in point here was the 1998 bombing of a Sudanese pharmaceutical plant. This was ostensibly targeted at Osama bin Laden but was in actuality intended as a distraction from the enveloping Lewinsky crisis.
In short, your perspective of U.S. national security policy is far, far too roseate. It might behoove you to remove your partisan blinders. That is, if you’re interested in intellectual honesty and working toward actual solutions toward repairing are rancid national security state. I realize that is an open question at this blog.
Trollhattan
@Trollhattan:
I see that I am a day late and a thread short. This may be a “they shut the cellphones down”-level fabrication in any case.
Origuy
@greenergood:
Well, there’s your problem.
nellcote
It’s not just the word terror. There have been other magick words. It’s just “say the word” bullying. I’m fucking sick of it.
Tonal Crow
@greenergood: Don’t use the word “drones” here. It’s spelled “dronz” to emphasize the prevailing BJ view that our use of drones is nothing new, is perfectly reasonable, and that substantial criticism of it is simply a cover for a pre-existing urge to criticize Obama, probably due to latest racism.
Omnes Omnibus
@Thomas F:
Uh huh, right.
Tonal Crow
@Omnes Omnibus: Ya. I seem to recall that that was the Republican meme about that attack. IIRC, I’ve never heard any substantiation for that idea.
Omnes Omnibus
@Tonal Crow: It was the same group of people who, once they came into office, ignored OBL and any threat he represented.
greenergood
@Origuy: yeah, I know … not too knowledgeable on the trustworthy newsites
Kyle
Fox News Republicans, with their idolatry over symbols and magical thinking, are salivating over the utterance of the word “terror”. It’s their excuse to go BATSHIT with the innate xenophobia, paranoia and chickenhawk bloodlust they can barely restrain in everyday life.
Batshit! Nananananananananana Batshit! nananananananananana
Quick! To the Batshitmobile!
Mnemosyne
@Thomas F:
Yeah, good thing that whole terrorist organization that Clinton said Bin Laden was running never really panned out or managed to coordinate any attacks in the US. We sure dodged that bullet, amirite?
Mike G
@Mnemosyne:
I’ll never forget the “Terrorism is a phony issue” “Distraction from Lewinsky, the REAL important issue” bullshit from Repukes in the late 90s. Or BushCo’s Pentagon’s relentless focus on the highly profitable Star Wars pie in the sky in the months leading up to 9/11. Terrorism was Clinton’s issue so it had dirty cooties.
The party of willfully ignorant assclowns don’t give a crap about anything unless there’s money or political advantage in it.
Thomas F
@Omnes Omnibus: The premise that it was aimed at Osama Bin Laden immediately evaporated after the event. There was no evidence the Administration could muster whatsoever. It was a pure wag the dog incident – it’s not even disputed anymore.
@Mnemosyne: Not sure you get my point. Tim F tried to foster the mythological view that the Bush Administration fabricated the architecture of the War on Terror ex nihilo. This simply isn’t true. Bill Clinton was singularly vital in forging the instruments that Mr. Bush later deployed. The ones that most people here claimed to despise until January 20, 2009.
Tonal Crow
@Thomas F:
Christ on a crutch quit the lying revisionism. From the 9/11 Commission Report, pp.115-117:
If you have citable evidence for your hypothesis, cite it, ‘cuz the counterhypothesis is pretty strong.
mclaren
The problem here is much bigger than paranoia. What we’re witnessing is the middle of the process of the breakdown of democracy.
The breakdown started on 9/11. Much of the constitution went out the window, including the 4th, 5th, 6th and 8th amendments — i.e., limits on reasonable search and seizure such as the U.S. government recording every email and every phone conversation and every bank record and every tweet of every man and woman and child in America and storing it in a giant database in a secret facility in Nevada so that data be trawled endlessly on the basis of random vacuous suspicions, right to due process (get charged by a court before being punished or murdered), right to a jury trial before the U.S. government imprisons or murders you, prohibition of torture.
The start of the collapse of the rule of law came with Americans applauding the murder of “enemy combatants” (the new name for untermenschen, or if you prefer the proper English terminology, witches). Shortly after 9/11, guilt was determined by suspicion, anyone killed or imprisoned was judged guilty by reason of having been killed or imprisoned, and anyone who objected to turning America into East Germany was a traitor who offered material support to the enemy. America was delcared to be at war after 9/11 with an enemy which could not be identified — a war which could never end, since there will never be an end to “violent extremism” everywhere in the world. For the duration of this endless war, we were informed that the basic rule of law had to go away, and most Americans seemed to be happy with that, because the only people getting tortured and kidnapped and murdered with brown people with funny names.
Then (as always happened) the unconstitutional powers granted by abominations like the USA Treason Act (misnamed the Patriot Act, and written by our current vice president, Joe Biden, in 1995 after the Muraugh Building bombing) expanded far out of control. Soon enough those anti-terrorist “sneak-and-peek” warrants were being used mostly for drug cases…not for terrorism. NSA warrantless wiretapping was being used to arrest (without probable cause, and without evidence admissable in court) peaceful non-violent protesters…not for terrorism.
We’re in the middle of the process of the endless expansion of unconstitutional governmental power — universal surveillance, legal kidnapping (arrest and detention in a secret prison forever without charges), torture, guilt by suspicion. The proof that we’re in the middle of this process is that the breakdown in the rule of law has now spread form the periphery of American society (foreign brown people in third world countries and dusky U.S. citizens with odd Islamic-sounding names) to white Americans on American soil — guys like Bradley Manning and John Kiriakou, for bogus non-crimes (leaking info about hte crimes committed by the U.S. government) that have nothing to do with terrorism.
The midpoint of the breakdown of the rule of law occurs when mainstream Democrats accept this kind of lawless behavior from a Democratic president.
The endpoint of this process of the breakdown of the rule of law in America winds up with democracy going away. Very soon, police will start to routinely use these kinds of extralegal methods. Think you’ve got a suspected serial killer? Kidnap him and torture a confession out of him. The evidence is so tainted it won’t hold up in a court of law? Shoot the guy and call it a “targeted killing of a terrorist suspect.” People protest in a mass demonstration? Beat and tase and pepper-spray ’em, then blast ’em into deafness with military LRAD sonic cannons of the kind Rahm Emanuel used on G20 protesters in Chicago.
At that point you no longer have democracy because anyone who dissents is ipso facto giving material support for terrorism. Political disagreement has blurred into “support for extremism” and any whistleblower who tries to leak evidence of government crimes gets kidnapped and hurled into a secret government military facility, like Bradley Manning. And anyone who organizes activities the government doesn’t like, say, Julian Assange or Aaron Swartz gets hounded into self-imprisonment or suicide, like Soviet dissenters sent into “internal exile.”
Bully worshiping lickspittles and cowardly quislings like mnemosyne and burnspbesq love the breakdown of democracy, because their professions profit from the decay of a free open society. Mnemosyne will be perfectly delighted to work on government propaganda touting the alleged glories of America’s new post-9/11 police state if and when Hollywood ever comes under the thumb of the creeping post-9/11 police state. And burnspbesq will be overjoyed to exchange his current duties as a tax avoidance lawyer for lead prosecutor in a kangaroo court, ginning up justifications of the alleged guilt of non-violent protesters by using evidence gained torturing the dissenters into confessing.
But the rest of us will be living in East Germany. Not a democracy.
And the worst part is that, like Cassandra, I’ve been telling you people this truth for years now, and your response ranges from denial to outright dementia.
Avery Greynold
Obama’s failure can be measured by where we would be if Bush was still president. An inmate in Gitmo would already have confessed and a retaliatory strike on some Muslim country would be airborne.
Oh wait, Obama’s drones are already on their way.