Here’s the Boston Globe liveblog. There’s been a third explosion at the JFK Library (no fatalities, according to the police department). “People in Boston” are being asked to stay home, or at least “out of large groups”.
Amateur video at the link, but I couldn’t figure out how to kill the autoplay, and it’s loud (not graphic, just loud).
We’re a dozen miles from the city proper, so I’m as far out of the loop as I hope all members of the BJ community are…
ETA:
Boston mayor’s hotline (can help locate friends/family): 617-635-4500Crime tips hotline: 800-494-TIPS #bostonmarathon
— MEMA (@MassEMA) April 15, 2013
The heavy volume of mobile phone calls around downtown Boston following explosions at the Boston Marathon has clogged cell service, blocking many from getting through to people at the scene.
“We are experiencing call blocking due to what’s happening,” said Mark Elliott, a Sprint spokesman. “The network is blocking calls due because of the number of calls coming in exceeds the capacity.”
He didn’t know what the exact volume of calls has been since the explosions occurred, but said many thousands of calls made at the same time in the same are overwhelm cell towers in the area.
“There’s no way the network can handle that kind of traffic,” he said.
There have been numerous reports of many people not able to get through to their family and friends at the marathon.
Elliott said that mobile phone users should text the people they are trying to reach in the area instead of calling to free up the mobile networks for emergency uses.
Verizon Wireless, meanwhile, issued a statement, saying: “Verizon Wireless has been enhancing network voice capacity to enable additional calling in the Copley Square area of Boston. Customers are advised to use text or email to free up voice capacity for public safety officials at the scene. There was no damage to the Verizon Wireless network, which is seeing elevated calling and data usage throughout the region since the explosions occurred.“Credit to Michael B. Farrell Globe Staff
the Conster
Heartbroken for my beautiful city.
raven
Can you do ANYTHING about this minutemaid scumbag?
Arclite
Glad Anne Laurie and Tom are safe.
Hopefully, other BJers are too. And my heart goes out to those injured, and to the families of those who perished.
Yutsano
@Arclite: Amen to that. And heartbreak for those killed and injured and their families.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Just heard on MSNBC: An undetonated bomb has been found in a nearby hotel, possibly another
Mary G
@Arclite: Also glad AL and Tom and theirs are all OK. Still horrified. The Atlantic has a terrible photo behind a black screen warning of its graphic nature and I wish I could unsee it.
lamh35
I just saw that video. Damn it was loud on screen and I can even imagine how much louder it would have been in person
pat
Don’t know if this has been mentioned, but BBC says that any package left by the people running from the chaos has to be treated as if it were a bomb. This could take a while.
arguingwithsignposts
Patton Oswalt posted this on Facebook. It’s worth a read. The conclusion:
Another Halocene Human
JFK Library? Jesus, I guess the BPD is right to be looking at domestic terrorism. Maybe this is the wake up call for New England states to start investigating the shit out of these skinhead groups, even if the Feds won’t touch them because it might hurt Louie Gohmert’s delicate fee-fees.
arguingwithsignposts
@raven: I’m afraid to look at the other threads now. Ugh. I’m afraid even to ask WTF he/she’s said now.
max
I’m glad the Boston contingent of the BJ’ers are OK.
Grapevine says a ‘saudi national’ is the detained guy in the hospital. Maybe, and maybe he did it, even.
max
[‘So a furren right-winger. As opposed to a reich-winger. Maybe.’]
pat
Also, if it is true that this happened at the 26 mile mark, where the tribute to the Sandy Hook victims was, this is just sick.
Hal
It will be interesting to watch the reactions from the usual suspects if this turns out to be right wing extremists.
Eric U.
@arguingwithsignposts: just trolling, fairly innocuous but really annoying
@max: BPD spokesman disavows knowledge of any arrests.
lurker dean
some posts on twitter indicate that boston cellphone service has been shut down to prevent potential remote detonations. haven’t been able to confirm this but sounds reasonable. so if you can’t reach someone on cell, that may be what’s happening. try google personfinder for now.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@lurker dean: saw that on TPM, also.
Is Patriots’ Day always on 4/15, or is it a closest Monday thing?
Bostondreams
@max:
Boston PD is denying that report. At least for now.
lamh35
@CNNSoutheast: CNN confirms Newtown families at the race, are ok, not doing interviews right now
Anoniminous
@max:
TPM:
Spaghetti Lee
Man, this just looks horrible from what I’m seeing on TV. This was supposed to be a happy day for so many people.
Trollhattan
@lurker dean:
BBC quoted an AP report saying that, which I guess means it’s third hand but from usually parsed sources.
I’d pretty much presume traffic would be so heavy the system would be on its knees, anyway.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Hal: Actually, it’s quite predictable what it will be:
1. he’s not one of us
2. he’s a left wing plant
3. he’s mentally unstable
4. if there had only been more guns, the bombs wouldn’t have gone off.
eric
@Bostondreams: they denied arrest, not taht he was a suspect and they denied they were source. did not deny a suspect…that i saw
Davis X. Machina
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Movable Monday holiday.
lamh35
@max: boston PD says that report is NOT TRUE
JPL
@raven: he/she is not here maybe my fk off worked…
raven
@arguingwithsignposts: I dunno, I had to pie him or her.
Spaghetti Lee
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Third monday in April. Happens to be the 15th this year.
Valdivia
glad to know our BJ crew is safe.
Ash Can
@arguingwithsignposts: Derf is the Westboro Baptist Church of BJ. Fling shit, provoke a reaction, lather, rinse, repeat. So tiresome.
SatanicPanic
Oh jeez, just saw a photo on the Boston link of a man with his feet missing. fuck. this is awful.
ETA, second everyone saying I’m glad all the Boston BJers are OK.
Bostondreams
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Third monday in April. Commemorates Lexington-Concord and the first shots of the Revolution.
The Spirit of Massachusetts is the Spirit of America. America may have been conceived in Pennsylvania, but she was born in Massachusetts.
—Proud Native really longing for home right now.
maya
This is not the work of right wing terrorists. This was done by left-wing impersonators.
lamh35
@samsteinhp 31s
HuffPost has compiled a photo gallery of today’s explosions. Warning that it’s graphic http://huff.to/YqEgKL
Spaghetti Lee
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
It is predictable. And I’m not going to give them the pleasure of fake martyrdom by being predictable myself and accusing a right-winger of doing this before I know anything. If one did, we’ll find out in due time.
lamh35
@samsteinhp 31s
HuffPost has compiled a photo gallery of today’s explosions. Warning that it’s graphic http://huff.to/YqEgKL
Trollhattan
@lamh35:
Thank goodness. They must be in a mental state none of us can possibly imagine.
Bostondreams
@eric:
they denied anyone had been apprehended, period.
But really, let’s not argue. :/
Haydnseek
@maya: Care to expand on that statement?
raven
CBS just showed video looking at the finish line and the interval between explosions is only about 15 seconds. Pretty sophisticated timer or command detonated. Sooner?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
From TPM
shortstop
@Bostondreams: Yeah, well, right now some deeply psychotic person or people are likely also claiming the “Spirit of Massachusetts” and the “Spirit of America” as justification for multiple murders and mass maimings. I love Boston history myself, but I’m not sure today is the day to be bragging about it.
Davis X. Machina
@raven: Cellphones. Trivial. And on the internet. What’s more, they’ll trailer in a lot of mobile towers to handle the increased demand for an event like this…
lamh35
@ZekeJMiller 21s
RT @singernews: Reid says Obama will speak to nation at 6 pm
eric
@Bostondreams: agree not to argue…but it was a professional denial.
maurinsky
I got a call from my ex at about 4pm wondering if I’d talked to our daughter. I had, this morning. He said, but the bombs in Boston, and I had no idea. She is fine as is her fiancee. My best friend from high school was at the race but she was watching from Kenmore Square (she posted pictures from the finish line this morning and my heart sank when I heard the news) but she’s home and fine, although seriously freaking out.
lamh35
@PeteWilliamsNBC: govt officials have not confirmed cell phone service shutdown; some calls going through; system may just be overloaded
raven
@Davis X. Machina: I don’t understand what you are saying?
JWL
#1: Goddamn the scum who committed this crime.
#2: And then imagine how innocent, non-combatant people on the receiving end of a U.S. drone attack feel.
Anoniminous
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Standard FBI protocol. Even if they had somebody in custody they wouldn’t say anything until they’d had a chance to interrogate the person and attempt to learn if it was a lone wolf or a wider conspiracy.
shortstop
@raven: They were probably detonated by cellphones.
Todd
I’m not looking at my facebook feed, and I’m only going to look at this sporadically.
I’ll just say that the failure of the Bush administration to waterboard Eric Rudolph so as to learn every name of every person (both ignomininious and prominent in the political world) was a crime.
Rudolph deserved the needle, as did his abettors. This time, wingers may not be so lucky.
lamh35
Talking Points Memo @TPM 18s
Obama to address nation at 6pm ET, Harry Reid says: http://bit.ly/ZmaVnU
Liquid
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/15/alex_jones_labels_boston_explosion_a_false_flag/
Full Godwin, awesome.
raven
@JWL: Why don’t you save that for a bit?
Trollhattan
@raven:
I hope the other two(?) they found supply enough physical evidence for them to begin the investigation. Early reports had them detonating one found device, then reports of a second.
They may have xrayed and scanned them first and if so, would have seen a receiver and/or detected its signal. If they indeed shut down the cell grid afterwards….
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Anoniminous: I figured, but there are rumors about an arrested Saudi national, so I thought I’d post that.
Todd
@raven:
Probably command detonated, but delayed due to cellphone signal issues.
This sure reads like white power to me.
dmsilev
@raven: I think he’s saying that the bombs could have been triggered remotely (using smartphones) and it wouldn’t take much in the way of sophisticated timing.
Which is true. You wouldn’t even need to do much hardware hacking. Use a phone in tethering mode to provide a data connection for something like an Arduino board which has a bunch of controllable voltage outputs that are easily controlled via software. One of the scarier consequences of the computing revolution is how much easier shit like this becomes.
PurpleGirl
on September 11th I became the connection point for a number of friends in and outside NYC because I still had (and still have) a landline. People couldn’t use their cell phones to get other cell phones, so they tried me and asked me to call others and check how friends and relatives were.
It was a strange feeling to be the connection for all these people.
raven
@dmsilev: Thanks. I come from the world where charlie used claymore detonators and the were mines, not IED’s.
Another Halocene Human
@lurker dean: Either that, or the system crashed and they’re claiming they did it on purpose. :)
Dave
@Todd:
More interesting is that the third device (at Copley Square proper), which they detonated, was behind where the other two went off. That was where they were moving people and setting up the medical help after the explosions.
I don’t think that was a mistake. And thank God BPD and EMS found it.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Todd: It sounds like anyone willing to download instructions off the internet.
raven
Man, it looked like Steve Spielberg helping move the wounded.
Davis X. Machina
@dmsilev: Just some sort of microswitch/relay and the current ordinarly sent to the motor-cum-eccentric weight on the vibrator would do… probably all over YouTube.
modsquad
At least the jfk one was not related.
Another Halocene Human
@lamh35: damn me, I have to see if there’s anyone I recognize. :((((
Just spent 20 minutes on FB seeing who’s okay. Most of them had posted happy messages about the Marathon earlier in the day.
raven
@Another Halocene Human: Yea, I reached a buddy who runs it now and then. He’s not there today.
Todd
@Dave:
Yup. And god help the right-to-lifers and militia fucktards if it tracks back to them (as is likely, given the “first responder attack” scenario).
JWL
@raven: Nope, I’m past the age where I was inclined to ignore the fact that my fellow, post-WW2 Americans are a violent people, and that chickens come home to roost.
That said, and to repeat myself, goddamn the scum that perpetrated this obscenity.
Amir Khalid
@Haydnseek:
No, DO NOT invite a troll to expand on an intentional provocations.
maya
@Haydnseek: Soitenly. There are no right-wing terrorists, only patriots – or lone wolfs. Any other truth than that is a left-wing generated myth.
Another Halocene Human
@shortstop: Sounds more like they loathe the Spirit of Boston/Massachusetts/America/Humanity to do something like this.
How much do you have to loathe and hate others to intentionally murder a crowd of tourists and onlookers?
JenJen
@Haydnseek: Someone’s been reading Daily Caller and that maggot Alex Jones today, it would seem. That, or DougJ-style trolling, poorly executed.
@raven: Seconded. Good gawd what a fuckchop.
Todd
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
Placement is mighty suspicious for AQ. Doesn’t sound like them.
Sounds a lot like Eric Rudolph, though.
raven
@JWL: Oh yea, before WWII it was peaches and cream.
Fair Economist
@Todd:
Right-wing terrorism, sure, but based on the date and location probably anti-tax and maybe pro-gun driven (in the section of the course dedicated to Sandy Hook victims). Not really any racial signifiers. Granted most such people are racists too, but that doesn’t seem likely to be the prime motivator.
raven
CBS “A wide open field of potential suspects”.
Arclite
Shit, I need to stay away from Sully’s Blog. I’m horrified enough without seeing people with their legs blown off.
Also, Jennifer Rubin is a cunt, too:
Spaghetti Lee
@Todd:
I’m confused as to what you’re arguing here. Al Qaeda would have placed the bombs in a different place? What is it that happened that suggests one and not the other is responsible?
dmsilev
One small silver lining in a cloud like this is watching people come together to help others. For instance, via the Globe’s website,
offering stranded runners places to stay in homes across the area.
lamh35
@raven: I’ve been on CBS since the beginning. they seem to be more solemn and less breathless in their coverage and sticking to confirmed information and distiguishing between non-confirmed information\
the expert says that sources tell them that unlike in usual events, no one is claiming responsibility, which maybe means this is a lone wolf
raven
@dmsilev: And watch the GI’s and first responders run TOWARD the fire.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@JenJen: and then there’s the once proud Broderton Daily Shopper:
Following the explosions at the Boston Marathon this afternoon, conservative Washington Post blogger Jennifer Rubin tweeted that she wasn’t going to write about the issue, because, “It is a local crime story for now.”
The comment is a sarcastic reference to the Kermit Gosnell controversy, in which conservatives claim that the mainstream media has been covering up the horrific crimes of the Philadelphia doctor accused of performing illegal abortions. Her colleague at the Post, health policy reporter Sarah Kliff, tweeted last week that she wasn’t writing about the case because, “I cover policy for the Washington Post, not local crime.” The tweet prompted outrage among pro-lifers.
raven
@lamh35: I went there because of you.
JenJen
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Ahhhh. No wonder Erick Erickson was high-fiving her. I didn’t get it.
Higgs Boson's Mate
If only we had a multi-billion dollar agency to keep things like this from happening.
Davis X. Machina
The city will bounce back. The Great Molasses Flood of 1919 killed 21, and injured over 150.
Now there’s a DUKW boat-truck giving tours called Molly Molasses
Todd
@Fair Economist:
True dat. Its just that I’ve come to put all right wing terrorism under the category “white power”, since it all seems to zero sum to that principle.
Spaghetti Lee
@dmsilev:
See, that’s why I don’t get the “I’ve lost faith in humanity” comments after something like this. One murderous scumbag motherfucker set off a bomb. Hundreds of good people helped each other back up when it went off.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
And of course, one scumbag motherfucker
reporterpropagandist made fun of the whole thing because she’s butthurt about office politics. Fuck Jen Rubin.Arclite
@Dave:
Well, that’s how we do it with drone strikes. Pop one off, wait for a crowd to gather to help the victims, then pop off another. We’re good teachers that way.
Todd
@raven:
But they don’t deserve the kind of money CEOs make, because they’re just moochers.
Davis X. Machina
@Arclite: Provisional IRA were doing that a generation ago.
TooManyJens
@dmsilev: Oh wow, scrolling through that doc is making me cry. What a great bunch of people.
dmsilev
Just a heads-up in case anyone missed it: Obama to speak at 6:10 Eastern, about 7 or 8 minutes from now.
scav
@raven: Mea culpa. that made me laugh. they’re worried.
Soonergrunt
@raven: Depends on what the bomber or bombers were trying to do.
They could get the timing pretty close with individually wound and activated laundry dryer timers, which was one of the favorites of the Afghan Taliban when I was there.
Especially if they were just trying to get the explosions reasonably close and not exact.
OTOH, if they were trying to do the classic “terrorist two-step,” where they set off one device and then trigger another one to attack the responders, then they are way too close together. They need them a couple of minutes apart for that.
2liberal
h/t TPM
officials say that Boston PD are “guarding” a wounded man at a Boston hospital as a “possible suspect” – @JimMiklaszewski
Dave
Police Commissioner Davis just said there is no suspect in custody. Which makes you wonder why the NY Post earlier said a Saudi national was in custody as a suspect…
GregB
Keep cahm, carry on.
lamh35
@raven: ugh unfortunately our local news have started so I’ll have to check CBS online I guess
eric
@Dave: because he is not “in custody” read the denial again. it was artfully crafted.
the Conster
@Dave:
Because they want it to be a Saudi national?
arguingwithsignposts
@Dave:
I think your answer is right there. When has the NY Post ever been an example of fact-full journalism?
Dave
@Soonergrunt:
There was a third device at Copley Square proper, which the BPD caught and detonated. That was where they were setting up triage.
Cris (without an H)
@dmsilev: Just the other day, somebody I know posted a Mister Rogers quote about that.
Todd
@Spaghetti Lee:
AQ seems to target political and economic power, not entertainment. Further, I can’t see them planting a bomb among the Sandy Hook victims.
The Olympic Park Bombing of 1996 that the FBI tried to finger Richard Jewell for. It had been done by Army of God member Eric Rudolph, who received food and succor from right to lifers all over the Carolinas for years. When the Bush FBI found him, they never bothered finding out which prominent right to life figures helped him, and gave him a quick plea which allowed him to avoid the needle he deserved (considering he also bombed gay and lesbian nightclubs).
He targeted entertainment and sports.
sylvan
Gee, who could have imagined such a thing would happen on Tax Day.
@Davis X. Machina: It’s rumored that you can still smell the molasses when temperatures rise.
p.a.
Hopefully the found bombs can get the investigation off to a fast start. Don’t know what they can do evidence-wise with the bomb sites.
Prayers for the dead, wounded and their families.
raven
@Soonergrunt: thx
Omnes Omnibus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Patriot’s Day is the Monday closest the anniversary of Lexington and Concord, April 19.
Liquid
Oh yeah this happened but who cares, right? — http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/15/us-iraq-violence-idUSBRE93E07320130415?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews
Davis X. Machina
@sylvan: My dad taught at the Michelangelo, he took us around there in the very early ’60’s and showed us the molasses between the cobbles. It was still there if you knew where to look.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@2liberal: a Sikh was gunned down in IIRC Arizona shortly after 9/11. It could be some Howie Carr listeners decided to play boy-profilers.
AndoChronic
@ Spaghetti Lee
“See, that’s why I don’t get the “I hate all humanity now” comments after something like this. One murderous scumbag motherfucker set off a bomb. Hundreds of good people helped each other back up when it went off.”
Amen brother.
Spaghetti Lee
@Todd:
What about Bali in 2002? And McVeigh and that guy in Austin were right-wing terrorists but targeted government buildings, not entertainment sites. I’m honestly asking-I don’t know anything about criminology as such.
Phoenician in a time of Romans
@JWL: “#2: And then imagine how innocent, non-combatant people on the receiving end of a U.S. drone attack feel.”
As best I can tell, the Boston attack has killed two and injured “dozens” of others.
Also, as best I can tell, there were at least 40 incidents where American drones killed two or more people in bomb blasts reported last year in the media alone. Undoubtably there were many, many more which never made it to media attention. It’s difficult to determine how many were civilians and how many “terrorists”, especially if “terrorist” is defined as “male with something that looks like a gun in the right part of the country” for targeting purposes.
I assume that the US BJers are feeling shock, outrage, rage, and a desire for revenge against whoever is responsible for the Boston attack.
JenJen
@Liquid: Uhh, actually, it’s right there in Cole’s OP on the Boston Marathon bombing.
JWL
@raven: My attempt to edit that remark didn’t take.
It otherwise would have read (something like): “..chickens are coming home to roost…As Malcolm X noted in his righteous remark about violence in America, spoken in the immediate aftermath of JFK’s assassination”.
I wholeheartedly agreed with his point decades ago, and I’m a caucasian American.
We Americans are a violent people, in both foreign and domestic affairs.
raven
So some bobblehead on CNN said the prez will be sure to call it terrorism since he didn’t do so in a situation overseas!
Higgs Boson's Mate
Just another step on the road to Terry Gilliam’s “Brazil.”
pk
I am just reading about this and is it strange that it did not even occur to me that this could be Islamic Jihadists? My first thought was that it is some home grown crazies. Since it is tax day, my guess is some anti-taxation uber patriot nut jobs. I’ll be shocked if it is otherwise.
Liquid
@JenJen: Damn it, I did not see that.
raven
@JWL: OK Che, have a ball.
Gordon, the Big Express Engine
@eric: agreed. it really felt like that live. the local presser that wrapped about 20 minutes ago. it was a non-denial denial
JenJen
@raven: Jessica Bobblehead Yellin. Just rolled my eyes at that one.
Mezz (fpa Michael2)
@Davis X. Machina: The MOLEASSACRE!! Friends in grad. school did a documentary about it. Really crazy; sad too, what happened to the animals.
As for this, there are a ton of potential motives, rather than just expanding gases!
I for one am just glad Wheaton doesn’t do the holiday and all those folks should at least have been in class.
f space that
There’s a guy named Larry Johnson on local NBC DC station who started off saying the explosion signature is sort of like an AQ device. Is this the famous Larry Johnson who was in possession of a certain video tape ?
Phoenician in a time of Romans
@pk: My first thought was that it is some home grown crazies. Since it is tax day, my guess is some anti-taxation uber patriot nut jobs. I’ll be shocked if it is otherwise.
If it is, they will, of course, be isolated nuts, in no way representative of a larger movement, and nothing to do with other people on the Right spouting inflammatory rhetoric. And don’t use the “T” word.
Ben Franklin
@Liquid:
Obama just on. He didn’t blame Al Alwaki or his son.
max
@Soonergrunt: OTOH, if they were trying to do the classic “terrorist two-step,” where they set off one device and then trigger another one to attack the responders, then they are way too close together. They need them a couple of minutes apart for that.
Take the wire from the speaker of a cellphone (two cellphones) – connect to a relay which when tripped allows the main voltage supply to pass through. Send a text message to both phones simultaneously. 15 second delay could be from cell network delay. (That is, I agree.)
Todd: AQ seems to target political and economic power, not entertainment. Further, I can’t see them planting a bomb among the Sandy Hook victims.
AQ likes New York because Wall $treet. This isn’t really their bag. If it was the New York marathon or really big bomb, that would smell like AQ. (Also agreeing with you.)
max
[‘Totally in a certain kind of right-winger’s bailiwick.’]
SatanicPanic
@JWL: At times like these I turn to the brilliant wisdom of Malcolm X, a man who was gunned down by people from his own organization.
lamh35
@JenJen: yeah Yellin stumbling right now. cause she knows to say he didn’t call it a terror attack and for he to harp on it, will make her no more than the crazies
scav
anybody need an OT mental break with a drizzle of kharma? (nb sb more future tense in title) The New York Post: the game is up for Murdoch’s plaything
steve s
I’m betting a tea partier based on the location and date.
JWL
@raven: Che? What prompts you to invoke Guevaro in response to my remarks? I think and speak for myself.
4tehlulz
Obviously, this was the work of Saddam Hussein.
/Laurie Mylroie
Omnes Omnibus
@f space that: Does it look like he cuts his own hair? If so, it is probably him.
GregB
The Boston media has a number for concerned families.
617-635-4500
Violet
President Obama’s remarks were short and to the point. They don’t seem to know much yet, and they’ll find whoever did this and bring them to justice.
JGabriel
Thanks for checking in, Anne. I’m glad to know you and yours are out of harm’s way.
mouse tolliver
@f space that: Does it it look like he cut his own hair with a Flowbee? If so, then yes.
raven
@SatanicPanic: That’s up for grabs.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@f space that:
Why? Did it go “Boom-laden!” when it detonated?
Phoenician in a time of Romans
@Dave: There was a third device at Copley Square proper, which the BPD caught and detonated. That was where they were setting up triage.
Can you confirm this? That doesn’t seem to be part of the stories going out.
“Two explosions occurred near the Boston Marathon finish line at 2:50 p.m. The race was diverted before being halted as police and fire crews swept the area. Another device was found, which was purposely detonated by Boston Police at Boylston Street. Another incident at JFK Library, which was thought to be a fourth-related incident, is now being considered as a fire-related issue by the Boston Police Department. Two people are dead and 107 are injured”
Mezz (fpa Michael2)
Also, *more* fun speculation is WHOSE HEAD will tea-tards demand when the story changes from cautious guesses to more factually-informed opinions (a la Benghazi)??
Gov. Deval?? Nobody would want Menino’s, a. b/c he’s on his way out, and b. not even we can understand what the f*** he says anymore. But who else in Boston politics would they go after when they start spinning their conspiracy theories?
2liberal
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
the report said as a possible suspect – to me that would mean ‘the authorities’ considered him a possible suspect, not that some profilers had attacked this person
lamh35
@AdamSerwer: CNN reporter: “there must be a reason he chose not to use that word” // like no one knowing exactly what happened yet?”
Todd
@Spaghetti Lee:
Muslim country with significant local griping about activities which did not comport with local fundamentalist religious custom. It was entertainment, but different.
You can’t get close enough to do serious damage to US government structures post-McVeigh – they’re too well-protected and stuck behind well-decorated barricades. That leaves the soft targets – some sporting events, lines outside sports stadiums, restaurants, libraries.
Plus, there’s the timing issue – tax day, Patriots Day, gun control shit galore. Top it off with the notion that Boston Marathon folks are urban elitists, and you’ve got wingnut hog heaven.
f space that
@mouse tolliver: Ha ha, yes.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: Does “al Qaeda” even mean anyting anymore? any kid throwing a rock at an embassy or a local cop, or local rebel attacking a CIA mission can claim he did it as part of “al Qaeda”, and AQ is glad to take credit because it makes them appear wider spread and more influential
lamh35
Ummm, is armagaddeon here already?
Naw he’s just waiting til tomorrow
sylvan
@Phoenician in a time of Romans:
Be sure to tell us when you come up with a solution to asymmetrical warfare that will spare 100% of the innocents.
elmo
Both Huffpo and the Atlantic have a photo of a young man in a wheelchair, not a stretcher, being rushed to medical help. He’s obviously conscious and looks alert.
Both of his legs are gone below the knees.
That picture is going to haunt me like the iconic photo of the fireman and the infant after Oklahoma City.
lamh35
idiots at CNN think just saying “this is just speculation” means they are being cautious…newsflash it doesn’t u still giving our bad info
JGabriel
@Dave:
Because the Post is an anti-Muslim Murdoch ragsheet, eager to delay as long as possible the obvious conclusion that this is (probably) a right-wing terror attack from a white anti-tax conservative who wanted to kill a lot of Boston liberals. Probably a white supremacist too, but that the attack occurred on April 15th makes it all but certain that this is from an anti-tax wingnut.
Comrade Jake
Have Michelle Malkin or Jennifer Rubin blamed Obama for this yet?
4tehlulz
@Comrade Jake: Michelle was there, actually.
lamh35
DAMN!
@NBCNews 23s
Law enforcement official confirms that one of two people killed in today’s explosions was eight years old. #BostonMarathon
Viva BrisVegas
@Todd:
While Indonesia is muslim, Bali is Hindu.
The target was westerners. It just happens in Bali that they are found in nightclubs.
While the terrorists involved were local muslim fundamentalists, their motivation was pure AQ.
GregB
One of the two deaths is an 8 year old child.
Violet
@lamh35: That is just tragic.
Comrade Mary
One of the victims was eight fucking years old.
TooManyJens
@lamh35: Fuck.
Ben Franklin
Coincidence?
MALHEUR COUNTY, Ore. – Two men, 59 and 60, were hospitalized with severe injuries Sunday night after detonating explosives at Bully Creek Reservoir, about 10 miles west of Vale, Malheur County Sheriff Brian Wolfe said.
One of the victims has life-threatening injuries to his face, limbs and chest, Wolfe said. The other has severe but not life-threatening injuries. A dog was also injured.
Deputies found three or four detonated explosive devices near the scene of the incident, along with one unexploded device. Local authorities called the Nampa bomb squad for assistance, who found bomb-making materials in an Ontario home.
http://www.idahopress.com/news/explosives-detonated-in-eastern-oregon-nampa-bomb-squad-responds/article_01024d82-a5d0-11e2-a9c8-001a4bcf887a.html
JWL
Come on, “Raven”. You’ve got a big mouth, answer my question.
@raven: Che? What prompts you to invoke Guevaro in response to my remarks? I think and speak for myself.
raven
@JWL: Go fuck yourself asshole.
lamh35
CBS guy just said that his sources say a man was “in custody” and he appeared to be a Saudi National.
But I’m always suspicious of people targeting people of Middle Eastern descent when things like this happens
shortstop
@JGabriel:
And even more than delaying the obvious conclusion, they’re laying the groundwork for an alternate explanation that will dominate the media for weeks and live on in everybody’s Uncle Bubba’s chain emails for months. Eventually the white guy or guys will be found, tried and convicted, but by then it will be too hard for every right-wing person on Facebook to even acknowledge it — or a new conspiracy theory will spring up that has Obama scapegoating the tea party for his Muslim brothers’ crimes.
PurpleGirl
@arguingwithsignposts: Well, not in recent years. Not since Dorothy Schiff owned the newspaper and made it a liberal entity. Unfortunately her children were not interested in running it and she sold it to Murdoch (for $30 million in 1979).
Schlemizel
@shortstop:
They are already saying “false flag”
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/15/alex_jones_labels_boston_explosion_a_false_flag/
Violet
@lamh35:
I didn’t know Saudis had such a distinct look. Imagine that…those reporters can pick ’em out just by looking at them. Ugh.
lamh35
NBC saying sources say their are “persons of interest”, but no suspect in custody. One of the persons is a young man who is on a student VISA, but “no suspects in custody”
Valdivia
@Violet:
this was started by the Post. The LA Times says he is injured and they are asking him questions. Not that he is a suspect. Gah. This is insane. Just like after Oklahoma. Blaming the browns. Let’s wait and see.
ETA: now that I see Lham’s comment. If there had been a bomb around Georgetown they would find tons of Saudis or Arabs with student visas. And I imagine the same of Boston. This guy may have just been there and gotten injured. My god. The profiling!
scav
The NYP needs some of the juicy juicy low-hanging clicks out wandering about today off their usual ruts, all to drive ad revenue a few more cycles. Also too.
JWL
@raven: That’s anger, but certainly no answer.
Because you can’t answer, can you?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Worth keeping in mind this could be some loony with no political agenda (think some loon inspired by Keath Ledger’s Joker with his cell phone bombs)
On the other hand, bombings on tax day and isn’t Adolph Hilter’s birthday around now?
vhh
@dmsilev: Iraqi teenage insurgents don’t need (and cant’ get) Arduino boards. All it takes is a pair of wires from the mobile phone ringer to the detonator. Simple analog circuit stuff.
shortstop
@Violet: I know, and you’d think they’d use that very, very special talent to identify the guy as a Yemeni or an Iranian or some other Middle Easterner with whom we’re not so cozy.
Ben Franklin
Decatur, Texas (CNN) — Colorado authorities are working to determine whether a high-speed chase Thursday involving a man who shot repeatedly at law enforcement officers in Texas is related to this week’s shooting death of Tom Clements, Colorado’s prison chief.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/21/justice/colorado-prison-chief-shooting
Texas prosecutor quits after white supremacist threat.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57577663/texas-prosecutor-quits-white-supremacists-case/
Comrade Mary
Anyone got CBS on? Just read this: “Further details are coming in from multiple sources (LA Times, CBS News) regarding Saudi national story – reports stating Saudi national is NOT in custody but is being questioned, reported to be cooperative and not a suspect.”
scav
@shortstop: Well, bomb boominess has regional accents and using Saudi is handy when nothing more is heard of him as of course! the govt spirited him away! meme re-enforcement is easy to remember, with dawn’s rosy fingers over the wine-dark seas.
lamh35
@Comrade Mary: that’s basically what NBC was reporting
Omnes Omnibus
@Comrade Mary: Golly, he might just be a witness to something. Nah, let’s pillory him because he is brown.
The same goddamned shit happened following OKC, a mad rush to find a “wog” on whom to blame things.
Spaghetti Lee
Sacks of human pus like Matt Boyle and Pam Geller, of course, took the time to remind people that it’s all really Obama’s fault and he WON’T CALL IT TERRORISM SHRIIIIIIEK.
I swear to God, right-wingers love it when innocent people die. Gives them such a sense of purpose in life. And these are the same shit-eating goblins we’ll be hearing from over the next few days about ‘liberals politicizing the tragedy.’ Alex Jones and Pam Geller oughta choke on each other’s shit and fuck off.
TD
There is no reason to dismiss the possibility that this is AQ. There is also no reason to dismiss the possibility that this is domestic terrorism.
The fact that this is “entertainment” and not “economic” or “military” says nothing. Nothing. Jeezus.
Most military, and many major economic targets have been drastically hardened since 9/11. AQ could easily be moving on to softer “entertainment” events like marathons. Why not? There are a lot of people at those events, spread over a very wide indefensible area. They aren’t going to limit themselves based on that BS dichotomy you pulled out your arse.
Let’s wait and see.
sonofsamantha
I wish people would stop speculating..90% of which always ends up being dead wrong.
Spaghetti Lee
@Omnes Omnibus:
They could be questioning him as a witness. The BPD is for the record saying that they’re not holding anyone in custody and don’t have any suspects at the time.
Comrade Jake
Sure, let’s wait and see, but I’d put my money on this being domestic. Just doesn’t look like AQ to me – not enough people dead.
Omnes Omnibus
@Spaghetti Lee: That’s what Comrade Mary’s link said. I am talking more about the NYP “suspect in custody” crap.
ETA: I did not mean to imply that the Boston PD or FBI was jumping to conclusions.
Anoniminous
@scav:
It’s highly suspicious the government would have “spirited someone away” to a hospital when they’ve been injured in a bomb explosion.
/snark
beltane
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: Larry Johnson? The same PUMA nutter of No Quarter infamy? I bet it’s him and shame on MSNBC.
JWL
Come on, Raven. What’s taking your big mouth all this time to get into gear?
Answer my question.
scav
@Anoniminous: ooooooooooo, xzackly. Death panels! /snarl
ahem, sorry, day overload kicking in
tavella
I find it somewhat doubtful, even apart from honed by reality cynicism about people being arrested for looking Muslim in the wrong place. The tight timing suggests there was no premature detonation and being close enough to get hit by shrapnel thus seems unlikely.
Trollhattan
Charles Pierce, tonight:
RTWT: http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/boston-marathon-bombings-update-from-boston-041513#ixzz2QZkpn56M
sylvan
Who the fuck thought it was a good idea to give Al Sharpton his own show.
Suffern ACE
@Anoniminous: if the government didn’t do it, he would have had to go there on his own.
Narcissus
Confirmation on one of the dead being a child?
lamh35
@sylvan: Rev Al is def not good during these LIVE events. But then again, Tweety can be no better sometimes either
f space that
@beltane: It was channel 4 NBC local affliate in DC, not MSNBC.
bemused
I wish Tweety and Barnicle had taken today off.
Anoniminous
@Suffern ACE:
um
What part of “/snark” was unclear?
beltane
@f space that: Thanks. A reminder that whatever “experts” are put before the cameras on short notice are just as likely as not to be unqualified to give an opinion on anything.
Bob In Portland
My guess is that it was rightwing radical traitors. Patriots Day falling on tax day is too good a target to be true for whackjobs. As an added thrill for the extremists, Hitler’s birthday is coming up. If I’m not mistaken OKC was around this time of year.
Anoniminous
Friend in Europe is telling me some Americans visiting in London are being evacuated from their hotel.
Spaghetti Lee
@Bob In Portland:
OKC and Columbine. Waco too. Something about the middle of April. Must be the weather.
Anne Laurie
@lamh35:
I worked in the heart of that area (John Hancock Tower, next to Copley Square) for 15 years. The hotels being mentioned on the news (Mandarin, Copley Plaza) are full of high-dollar international travellers. There are international-friendly colleges (Emerson, BU) within walking distance. Several renowned medical-tourist medical centers. All of which provide tons of low-paid jobs (cafeteria workers, sheet changers, bedpan carriers) for new immigrants. If there hadn’t been a bunch of “Middle Eastern looking” individuals all over the bomb site, that would have been newsworthy!
To recap, today was a local holiday, so a lot of people had a free day to walk around, enjoy the nice weather, gawk at the runners and the tourists who show up to watch the runners. People who otherwise would have been in the area — state employees, anyone working in the Hancock Tower or most of the big offices nearby — had the day off. But the state & federal buildings are not in that immediate area anyways, so this was pretty clearly aimed at the Marathon crowds.
Mnemosyne
@Dave:
Ironically (given Boston’s history), that’s an old IRA trick — place a second bomb to go off about half an hour later so you can take out the first responders.
(Al-Qaeda adopted the same trick later, but IIRC it originated with the IRA.)
Soonergrunt
OKC Memorial Marathon just did press event. The marathon this week is still on, pending any further information.
Debbie(aussie)
Am so sorry, for those families involves personally for those who live in love this city and for all USians, especially balloon juicers. My {{{{{{hugs}}}}} & thoughts with you all. Debs
Herbal Infusion Bagger
@Davis X. Machina:
IIRC those cases with the PIRA were the result of fuck-ups with the guy giving the bomb warning getting the street name wrong, or the guy planting the bomb panicking and leaving the bomb on the wrong street (like Omagh, which was CIRA), or on Bloody Friday, the PIRA planting so many f**king bombs (22 bombs in one hours) that evacuees from one bomb ended up in the blast area of another.
No fan of the PIRA, but I don’t think they (delibrately) used the tactic you’re suggesting.
That psycho in Norway did, though.
Phoenician in a time of Romans
@sylvan:
Be sure to tell us when you come up with a solution to asymmetrical warfare that will spare 100% of the innocents.
I try not to justify the murder of innocents for dubious and unsupportable political purposes, whether those innocents be in Pakistan or Boston.
Do you think the Boston attacks will make America more or less likely to act against whoever is responsible?
Hal
OK I’m no terrorism expert, but wouldn’t an AQ attack have been far more ? Not to in any way downplay the tragedy that’s happened BTW.
Just wondering why AQ would target the Boston marathon? Sounds like wingers are anticipating a McVeigh type situation but I guess well have to wait and see.
Ben Franklin
@Phoenician in a time of Romans:
I try not to justify the murder of innocents for dubious and unsupportable political purposes, whether those innocents be in Pakistan or Boston.
Obviously you are not more outraged over white casualties, than brown.
shame on you
shortstop
@scav: Homeric reference for the win.
@Spaghetti Lee: OKC was purposely the same day as Waco. The theory is that it was the originally intended date for Columbine. But don’t forget Hitler’s birthday, the next day! So much April-y evil.
raven
@JWL: Here’s what you do punk. Keep posting these stupid fucking comments because, you know, I give a rats ass what you say.
Gordon, the Big Express Engine
@Trollhattan: shitload of people dropped their bags to get out of the blast zone and unfortunately the police have to treat all of them as suspicious by default. Definitely complicated things.
Really sucks. the atmosphere around this race just rocks. We were lucky. My three kids under 7 made me avoid the crowded finish area and opt for a mid race vantage point to see my wife run.
BillinGlendaleCA
Watching Tweety on MSNBC.
Hey Tweety, here’s a suggestion. Look at Google earth, see if both locations have something in common. It ain’t trashcans, both have green mailboxes. Why yes I’ve been playing with my new toy, Google Earth with 3d glases.
Gordon, the Big Express Engine
@Spaghetti Lee: @shortstop: April is the cruelest month…
kc
Headline on CNN website says Obama “doesn’t say terror.”
weaselone
@Phoenician in a time of Romans:
Drone strikes are at least ostensibly an attempt to take out one or more specific terrorist targets. Could you please tell me who the specific target was among the crowds of spectators and participants at the marathon?
Omnes Omnibus
@kc: Oh FFS. Really? One must use the talismanic word or what?
Mnemosyne
@Phoenician in a time of Romans:
Uh, yeah, try not to post smug “now you know how the people in Pakistan feel” bullshit before you try to make this claim with a straight face.
Also, fuck you. It’s pretty fucking easy to be smug when you’re 8,000 miles away from the carnage, isn’t it?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@kc: @Omnes Omnibus: amazing how effortlessly the right wing gets the MSM to follow a script.
Tweety asking if Obama gives the FBI advice.
lamh35
@kc: Chuck Todd has been making issue of “terror” or not “terror” on twitter and just now on Tweety, he found some dude who an MSNBC terrorist expert (ETA: Dude worked with Obama admin) to make issue of the POTUS not saying “terror” he said they were being “overly cautious”
So yeah, it will be a issue I guess. fuck Tweety, Chuck Todd and that idiot.
ETA: Dude actually worked with Obama admin, so expect there to be headline of “even Obama faithful thinks WH too timid on calling these acts “terror”
Omnes Omnibus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
The man, Tweety – that is, is not good under stress.
Yutsano
@kc: @Omnes Omnibus: Yeah. That about pissed me off to no end.
TD
@Hal: For whatever it’s worth, I have a Master’s degree in Counter-Terrorism (with a heavy focus in it as an undergrad, too), and the answer to your question is complicated. The short of it is: not necessarily.
AQ has been a fairly nebulous organization for decades, with it’s central organization planning relatively lethal attacks, and its offshoots carrying out relatively less lethal attacks. We can say with some confidence that the capacities of the central organization have been severely degraded over the course of the last decade. But even if this is the case, the offshoots could still be operating. If this is one the decentralized nodes carrying out the attack, there is no reason to suspect it would be any more lethal than any other group of relatively amateurish terrorists. AQ might mean highly trained and organized and lethal attacks, but then again, it might not. In any event, this was not a child’s play operation either.
The only thing I would say with any confidence, at this juncture, is that there appear to be too many devices to be the work of one man alone. The sophistication of the devices will give us better clues as to the nature of the organization behind the attacks.
SatanicPanic
@lamh35: Shorter media- Obama doesn’t say obvious thing, believes American public is smarter than we do
raven
@TD: Buncha people upthread told me it was no big complicated op?
JWL
@raven: Again, that’s no answer.
Your thinking- such as it is- consists of vitriol.
Vitriol is so very easy.
You’re a very emotional person, aren’t you?
Not that there’s anything wrong with that. But you stand exposed.
Still, if with profound ennui, I again request: answer my question.
Darkrose
@Gordon, the Big Express Engine: Have you been able to contact her? Are you all okay?
kc
@lamh35:
CNN sucks balls. It’s worse than Fox. At least everyone knows that Fox has an agenda.
raven
@JWL:I request you go fuck yourself.
TheMightyTrowel
@SatanicPanic: smarter than we are.
FTFY
scav
@raven: I think that had more to do with the sophistication of the devices, not the planning of the event.
Todd
@weaselone:
Forget it, he’s rolling.
I’m eagerly waiting to see a reference to the public option, and how there was a sellout on DOMA.
JWL
@raven: But why? Explain yourself.
After all, it’s a simple request.
Mike G
@kc:
CNN are trying to out-Fox Fox in Teh Burning Stupid.
raven
@scav: But if the devices were simple then how difficult would the planning have to be?
Ben Franklin
@Mnemosyne:
It’s pretty fucking easy to be smug when you’re 8,000 miles away from the carnage, isn’t it?
It’s also more perspicacious if you aren’t too close to the story.
raven
@JWL: Because you are a drag.
Omnes Omnibus
@raven:
Placement and timing.
BruinKid
Saw this morning one of my friends from high school was running the Boston Marathon.
Fortunately, she finished the race just 10 minutes before the explosion, and is trying to walk back home on foot. Her parents were pretty quick to update people on Facebook letting us know she was OK.
Keith G
@lamh35:
Ya know, it seemed to me that the White House’s statement given by Obama was an overly scripted communication. Which means that they had time to consider the public/media response to every syllable.
I think it’s safe to say that they just don’t care. Neither should we. Bigger issues and all that.
scav
@raven: well, and/if/or switches are pretty simple but can be organized into a computer. a carefully orchestrated series of simple bombs can do more damage and there’s the planning involved in how to get them where they need to be without being noticed.
JWL
@raven: What exactly do you mean, “a drag”?
Because I challenged you? Because I challenged your invoking Che in response to my post?
SatanicPanic
@TheMightyTrowel: heh heh I actually typed that in and then corrected it. Really, it’s both- the media is dumb and the media thinks everyone else is dumb too
TD
@raven: Placement, timing, evading detection during the construction and transportation of the devices, electronically evading the FBI and local law enforcement during the logistical deliberations of the attack itself. And depending on who did it, getting into the country in the first place.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@JWL: In the internets, when you climb up on the pedestal of progressiver-than-thou, people are likely to throw rotten tomatoes at your sanctimonious ass. I suspect Raven was saying indirectly what I will say now explicitly:
Get the fuck over yourself.
kc
Btw, I myself think it surely was a terrorist attack, but i don’t think the president needs to get on TV and say that until he has a good basis for doing so.
sylvan
Which would make sense if the FBI has been monitoring Tea Party Nation and Free Republic.
raven
@kc: Well it’s becoming THE story now.
eta Maybe Obama is doing the 11th dimensional boogie on the winguts by demonstrating how meaningless labeling the event is?
raven
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: We have a winner in row 253!
Ben Franklin
@Keith G:
I think it’s safe to say that they just don’t care. Neither should we.
The script is awaiting the edit. I’m sure the response will auger well to surrendering our civil liberties cuz that’s the Patriotic thing to do on Patriots Day.
Omnes Omnibus
@sylvan:
Which would also make sense if one were holding a large public event.
JWL
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: OK, but what does that mean? “Get over myself”? Have you read what I posted in this thread? If so, please, elaborate. Because I think my point eminently valid.
Hill Dweller
@raven:
Obama missing jumpers became a huge story…
lamh35
@Keith G: agreed, but i’m just sayin’. the NBC reporter on MSNBC from Boston just said “the President may not be calling it terror, but…” the local official she spoke to is.
So even in the process of reporting on the more important inforamtion, every report I’ve seen has made a point of saying POTUS did not call it terror.
It’s just one more sad example that the news that is supposed to inform the public is just as crappy as the cable news orgs.
beltane
CNN has Ari Fleischer on in case anyone would like to hear the thoughts of an unindicted war criminal. I do not miss not having cable one bit.
lamh35
so apparently, Erin Burnett just asked if domestic terrorism counts as terrorism.
*blinks* SMDH.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
The whole notion of “speak the word!” crap is based in the idea that Benghazi proved that Obama was “weak on terrorism”, OBL BFD. To paraphrase the exasperated woman who earned a lot respect from me that day “What difference does it make?”
raven
BREAKING NEWS!!! AMERIKA IS VIOLENT!!!!!! No fucking shit.
Debbie(aussie)
@kc:
Agreed, because with the wing nuts terrorism=Muslim brown person, sigh
Comrade Jake
@kc: you’re wrong about this. He needs to declare it a terrorist attack immediately because BENGHAZI!
Suffern ACE
Hmmm. Listening to the coverage on Bloomberg on the way home from work and Bloomberg West had already decided to go meta and thought Twitter was a story here today. I guess it’s not much worse than listening to Tweety talking about Munich while we wait to hear about actual developments in an investigation. But I wonder if the Press in the 50s spent so much time talking about how a news story was on TV while the story was still taking place.
raven
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: She wants somebody to talk to her.
Comrade Jake
@lamh35: Burnett is not particularly bright. In other words, she fits right in at CNN.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
We may have to add “Burnettian gaffe” to the idea of “Kinsleyan gaffe”, when a media stoop accidentally points out the abject stupidity of the point they think they’re trying to make.
Omnes Omnibus
@JWL: Honestly, at this point, what people are noticing that you posted in this thread is a series of comments demanding to know why someone called you Che.
Ben Franklin
@raven:
Yeah. It’s a sick fucking culture.
Anne Laurie
@sylvan:
Some of the Newtown parents were going to be in the stands at the finish line, and this “honor” was trumpeted all over the local news at least. The Boston authorities have worried about the Marathon as a second-level soft target since (at least) 2011, and with all the death threats the Newtown survivors have drawn, it would be surprising if the national anti-terorist specialists weren’t on site as well.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@sylvan:
The LA county Sheriffs routinely post bomb sniffing dogs in Los Angeles’ Union Station. They’ve been doing that for at least eight years.
raven
@Omnes Omnibus: Some angry, vitriolic ennui!
Anne Laurie
Open Thread up top, for all no-Marathon related postings.
dance around in your bones
@raven:
No kidding.
eta: looks like you got your own personal troll.
raven
@dance around in your bones: I was thinking it was me.:)
Ben Franklin
@Anne Laurie:
Yeah. Why would you pre-empt your own thread?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: That’s what I was thinking, there must be bomb-sniffing dogs at all kinds of crowded public events, which crowds I avoid, so I couldn’t say for sure.
sylvan
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’ve been to many large public events.
Bomb-sniffing dogs were not a feature that I recall.
lamh35
@Anne Laurie: Anne, there is something on twitter saying one of the un-detonated bombs was found near the stands where the Newton victims families were.
I don’t see anyone speculating that God forbid this had anything to do with the Newton families? as pointed out on CBS, the bombs seemed to situated as to have the maximum effect on spectators rather than the runners themselves.
JWL
@dance around in your bones: OK. But why? Why do you disagree with my point of view?
Omnes Omnibus
@Ben Franklin: The vast majority of the people in the US are not shooting one another. They are not acting like horrible shits on a day to day basis. And, looking at today, many people – including first responders acted bravely and decently. They ran to the injured to help. Runner finished the race and continued running to the hospital to donate blood. Sick culture, my ass.
Liquid
From a commenter on Wonkette: Chris Matthews: “This wouldn’t have happened if the Boston PD’s bomb-sniffing dogs were all Jesuits.”
Comrade Jake
@JWL: Jesus Christ dude, fucking drop it already.
Phoenician in a time of Romans
@weaselone:
Drone strikes are at least ostensibly an attempt to take out one or more specific terrorist targets. Could you please tell me who the specific target was among the crowds of spectators and participants at the marathon?
No idea. No doubt there will be some sick rationale behind it which the perpetrators will be happy to give, quite possibly linked to right-wing extremism.
@Mnemosyne:
Also, fuck you. It’s pretty fucking easy to be smug when you’re 8,000 miles away from the carnage, isn’t it?
Not smug – uninvolved. I wish it hadn’t happened, but I don’t have any of the visceral rage that’s motivating you right now. The US is a foreign country to me.
Would you say that that same rage might lead you to support whatever it takes to strike back at whoever is responsible?
Omnes Omnibus
@lamh35: Newtown. Please. Pedantic, I know, but a pet peeve.
raven
Chris Hayes up, I suspect it will get better.
JWL
@Omnes Omnibus: No, no… read my comments from the top. You may disagree, but mine is a genuine point of view.
And also one that has yet to be addressed with a genuine rebuttal on this thread, beyond emotional, vitriolic censure.
SatanicPanic
@JWL: Jeezus, drop it. Look when you favorably post Malcolm X quotes people will mock you as a Che Guevara t-shirt wearing college radical. It’s not that hard to understand.
Keith G
@raven:
Something that the Wampanoag and the Narraganset peoples (original Massachusetts residents) learned in the 1670s.
Humans are a turbulent lot.
Edit:
@Phoenician in a time of Romans:
It’s a foreign country to me, too. And I was born here 55 years ago.
raven
@Keith G: NO! Not humans. It’s all Amerika’s fault, we’re the root of all evil. Ask Che.
dance around in your bones
@raven: JWL is almost Little Bootsian at this point.
Anne Laurie
@lamh35:
I certainly hope not, just wanted to point out why federal teams might be on hand in advance. Bomb-sniffing dogs are a standard feature of big events in this area, like the Marathon, or the First Night New Years’ Eve celebrations. They do periodic sweeps of the T (subway) stations, too. This ain’t NYC, but it ain’t Cedar Springs Junction, either.
Villago Delenda Est
@beltane:
Well, if you need an expert on spin, propaganda, and selling death, Ari Fleischer is as good a choice as any, I suppose.
Omnes Omnibus
@JWL: Dude, I am telling you what someone reading the thread is going to remember that you said. Your original point has been buried. Hell, to even try to find it, I would need to link-hop up through about 50 comments.
dance around in your bones
@JWL:
What I disagree with is you constantly nagging someone to answer you when they are clearly uninterested in doing so. Just cut your losses and give it up.
Ain’t no thing.
eta: I really dislike Chuck Todd.
sylvan
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
All major transportation hubs have had precautions in place since 9/11.
This is different.
Ben Franklin
@Omnes Omnibus:
That’s your evidence? What happened to the lawyer?
Soonergrunt
@sylvan: It would also make sense if there were large gatherings of people at the start and finish of an historic race event that normally has national and international news coverage.
JWL
@Omnes Omnibus: That’s no answer at all. I made a point, one that you either didn’t read, or are unwilling to respond to.
Mnemosyne
@Phoenician in a time of Romans:
Yes, I realize that. Remind me to be as smug the next time the ground opens up under Christchurch. After all, why am I supposed to give a fuck about a bunch of foreigners on the other side of the planet?
Given that I’m pretty certain that this was domestic right-wing terrorists, yes, I’ll be happy for the government to do whatever it takes to track them down in Idaho or Montana or wherever it turns out they holed up to plan this. Why is our internal politics and how we track down domestic criminals your business, exactly?
Omnes Omnibus
@Ben Franklin: Yeah, that’s my evidence. If you want to focus on what’s bad in the world, that’s your problem. I don’t see any reason to do that. And being a lawyer has exactly zero to do with it. What is up with your obsession with my profession?
SatanicPanic
What’s suspicious about running from an explosion? This is lousy reporting.
raven
@JWL: Nobody cares about you.
beltane
@SatanicPanic: Duh. He was running away from an explosion while wearing brown skin. You can’t get more suspicious than that.
JWL
@dance around in your bones: You either didn’t take the time to read what I wrote, or dodged my contention.
It’s OK with me. But it’s also craven.
Ben Franklin
@Omnes Omnibus:
If you want to focus on what’s bad in the world, that’s your problem
My problem is with the delusional affects of those whose vested interest is in the preservation of the status quo, incrementalism included.
Morzer
@beltane:
After all, gentlemen never run away from explosions. They stroll in a leisurely manner while twirling their canes and making witty observations on life.
raven
@JWL: ccccccc Raven. . . . .
Liquid
I say Chaps, Johnny Incivility has been getting a right proper skullfucking today eh, wot?
lojasmo
@Arclite:
How about you shut the fuck up for a day?
Anne Laurie
@sylvan:
Is it? I’ve seen bomb-sniffing dogs at lots of Boston events over the last decade — First Night celebrations, last year’s Japan Festival in Copley Square (that was only a few thousand people over the course of the day, but there was a cop with a bomb dog there), at the edge of the local news screens for the Fourth of July concerts on the other side of the river and the Hempfests on Boston Common and the St Patricks Day parades (and of course all over Occupy Boston like deer ticks on a dog). I never paid enough attention to notice whose badges the teams were flashing to know which were local and which national. Certainly DHS deserves to be questioned if they weren’t keeping an eye on our domestic terrorists, but I don’t want to feed the paranoids without justification.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@SatanicPanic:
It wasn’t the running away from the explosion, it was running away from the explosion while appearing “foreign.”
Omnes Omnibus
@JWL: Jesus. I am not the one who fucking argued with you. I wasn’t particularly bothered by your comment. Stop derailing the fucking thread.
SatanicPanic
@beltane: Man, it must be hard to be brown- things blow up and people expect you to be calm.
Spaghetti Lee
@Ben Franklin:
I’ve met plenty of people addicted to the idea that everyone around them is savage and decadent and that they’re the only civilized, thinking people in the world. They tend to be full of shit. Yeah, there’s assholes in the world who will set bombs off at marathon, but, as the events of the day have proven, for every one of those there are hundreds of people willing to help the victims.
JWL
@raven: Wow, “No one cares about me”?
I guarantee you, a few people do.
If only a few.
Now, go get your shoe box*, and then answer my question.
*(Hat Tip to Joe Pesci).
Mike E
@JWL: Your POV is your opinion, as much as everybody’s got one, like assholes, except yours seems to be clogged with your head all up in it. I hope that clears things up for you!
raven
Very few and they ain’t here.
Kathleen
I’m glad the Balloon Juice Boston contingent is safe, as well as commenters’ friends and family who reside in Boston. My prayers go out to all. And I think CNN is now just making some shit up. Seriously.
Comrade Jake
Latest count is 125 wounded. Jesus.
sylvan
@Soonergrunt:
Before today, I doubt many people could place the Boston Marathon on a calendar.
Let alone a localized event with bomb-sniffing dogs.
raven
@sylvan: You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Do you recall when Ryan lied about his marathon time? The Boston is the most famous of a huge participatory sport.
dance around in your bones
@JWL:
I read your remark, it wasn’t that special or interesting. When someone doesn’t want to respond to you, it’s bad form to keep badgering them.
And it’s Guevara, not Guevaro.
eta: It’s shine box, not shoe box.
JWL
@Omnes Omnibus: Derail? Are you kidding me? This thread is 200 comments long, and counting.
It would be flattering to think that people are hanging on my every post, but I know better.
I made a single point up-thread, and a few (and only a few) have rejoined, to which I’ve responded.
That’s all.
Omnes Omnibus
@sylvan: Did you see the pictures? There are big crowds. It is one of the, if not them most famous marathons in the world. Anyone familiar with running knows it. As AL has noted above, bomb dogs are not uncommon at events in Boston, I don’t think that their presence is necessarily indicative of anything other than normal caution.
raven
I was right Spielberg was helping the wounded.
Shortstop
@JWL: Jesus, dude, you’re making Raven look temperate and understated in comparison.
sylvan
@Anne Laurie:
2007 Boston bomb scare
Congratulations.
raven
@Shortstop: easy with dat
Morzer
@JWL:
You didn’t make a point. You preened yourself by jerking off over dead and wounded people.
Gordon, the Big Express Engine
@sylvan: they always have them around for big events like this.
Mnemosyne
@raven:
I’m pretty sure that’s just his doppelganger but, geez, that sure is a striking resemblance.
JWL
@Mike E: Why do you think my POV is wrong headed? It’s a simple question, that should be simply explainable.
Thus far, however, not a single person who has bitched about it has explained why it is they disagree.
JWL
@Morzer: Read again what I wrote.
Omnes Omnibus
@JWL: At this point, no one is bitching about your comment. People are bitching about you bitching about your dismay at the reaction to your comment.
ETA: And with this I am done responding.
Svensker
@Anne Laurie:
Hell, we had bomb sniffing dogs meet us at the ferry dock in Anacortes, Washington, coming in from Victoria, B.C. a couple years ago. And the cops handling the dogs were not smiley, friendly folks, either. Held us up almost 2 hours at the dock. Heard from one of the ferry folk that it was standard then — don’t know if they’re still doing it.
Shortstop
@Spaghetti Lee: Nicely stated. The people you describe invariably claim to be all in for a large cause to which no one else is sufficiently committed. As that cause turns out to be the constant celebration of their own supposed iconoclasm, they’re right.
Morzer
@JWL:
I have read precisely what you wrote. You should be ashamed of exploiting the deaths and injuries to big yourself up. Quit masturbating over human suffering to just feel good. And while you are at it, quit whining about how nobody understands you. We understand you perfectly well and we despise you for the way you’ve behaved today.
The Thin Black Duke
@Morzer: Exactly. The dude is a fucking narcissistic ghoul.
Gravenstone
@dance around in your bones: Oh, now that’s a low blow. =P
Gordon, the Big Express Engine
@JWL: shine box. jeesh…
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Ben Franklin: Get a room you two.
Ben Franklin
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
Soonergrunt
@sylvan: Lots of people have heard of the Boston marathon, and they aren’t all from Boston. So if somebody wanted to find out when it was, there would hopefully be some device that could help them find information like that. Perhaps a node on an interconnected network of similar devices containing vast amounts of information.
You don’t suppose the bad guys might have taken advantage of such technology, if they’d only had it available, do you?
Mike E
@JWL: I don’t agree/disagree with you even in the slightest. I’m just pointing/laffing and farting in your general direction. Knni-ght.
CaseyL
My impression so far is that, as usual, first responders are amazing, and heroic – and incredibly well trained and well-prepared. Ditto the hospitals and medical centers, which have been able to get people into surgery and other treatment so fast.
Also: runners who completed the race, then kept running so they could help out, picking people up who had fallen, dashing off to hospitals to give blood. I’ve heard that when the bomb went off – most people of course ran away; but some ran toward the explosion, to start rescuing, to volunteer, to help.
It’s tempting to think the worst of humanity; that we’re a cruel, savage, damned species. So it’s good and necessary to remember those folks, who embody the best hope of humanity.
lojasmo
@Comrade Jake:
As pernicious as LIttle Boots.
Ben Franklin
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0051915/
dance around in your bones
@Gravenstone:
Heh. Doncha get a whiff of Bootsian Omnes stalking?
Omnes Omnibus
@lojasmo: FWIW given the time of day, little boots is probably drunk when he does his thing.
sylvan
@Gordon, the Big Express Engine:
No, they haven’t.
Mnemosyne
@Soonergrunt:
I dunno. It still seems like a very domestic attack to me, meaning it seems like the kind of thing an American would come up with because it has so many specifically American symbols involved (in Boston, on tax day, attacking the spectators, Newtown families nearby, etc.).
FWIW, I never thought OKC had any foreign involvement, because I seriously doubted that anyone from outside the US had a clue where Oklahoma was, much less Oklahoma City.
ETA: And by “American symbols,” I mean things that are symbolically important to American domestic politics, specifically right-wing politics, nothing that would be important to a foreign terrorist like the WTC was.
Eric U.
two more in the pie filter for me
AndoChronic
@CaseyL
“It’s tempting to think the worst of humanity; that we’re a cruel, savage, damned species. So it’s good and necessary to remember those folks, who embody the best hope of humanity.”
Belief or disbelief? I’m still trying very hard to believe in us. Thanks for the reminder though!
Irving
@JWL: Because you’re such a sanctimonious prick I wouldn’t trust you if you said the sun sets in the west. Go play in traffic already.
Keith G
Oh my god…the Blue M&M was right in the middle of the first blast site. He seems unhurt.
sylvan
@Soonergrunt:
The “bad guy” in this case would be Roberto Orci.
You should see some of his other tweets.
Soonergrunt
@Mnemosyne: When news of Boston broke, everybody in the office (left wing, right wing, apolitical) was looking at it going “that’s domestic.” It sure looks domestic. And the reasons you mentioned are part of the reasons I think so.
As far as the OKC bombing, I was in Germany at the time, and I remember that we didn’t know what was going on, but I didn’t think it was any international stuff because for international terrorism, New York City is, and always will be, the prime target, with Washington, DC second. As you said, who the hell knows where OKC even is, unless you’ve been here? There’s nothing here worth international attention.
Omnes Omnibus
@sylvan: Quoi?
Soonergrunt
@sylvan: Roberto Orci is the Boston Marathon Bomber? Does the FBI know about this?
JWL
@Morzer: Exploiting? Masturbating?
I contend you ignored what I wrote, and chose, instead, to emote.
Let me ask you this. In the immediate aftermath of JFK’s assassination, Malcolm X publicly stated that America’s chickens are coming home to roost. I understood that remark, and believed it to be true, the first time I read it.
Do you think he was in error?
The barbarians who committed today’s outrage in Boston are the scum of the earth. They must be hunted, and punished.
Yet, and indisputably, United States drones have murdered scores of innocents during the past decade.
And America was Big Lied into unleashing a war in Iraq that resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of innocents.
Let’s leave the Vietnam War out of the equation. If we didn’t then we’d have to speak in terms of hundreds of thousands of war victims.
Take it from there, please. Enlighten me, tell me where I’m wrong. I’d be interested in your point of view.
lojasmo
@dance around in your bones:
beaten by bones.
sylvan
@Omnes Omnibus:
You tell me.
Anne Laurie
@sylvan:
I googled. A guy who writes action thrillers says the local Fox affiliate says a sports coach from Mobile “never saw security like this before at a marathon”…
You know the folklorist term “friend of a friend”?
Congratulations, you’ve just been FOAF’d!
lojasmo
@JWL:
> post 329
> Responding to post 319
You are a moron.
Omnes Omnibus
@sylvan: What is the guy’s twitter feed supposed to tell me?
sylvan
@Anne Laurie:
You’re one to talk.
Thanks again for getting the cool guy at Adult Swim fired.
Smiling Mortician
@JWL:
No, no. You’re absolutely right. Everything bad causes everything else bad.
Now will you shut up?
sylvan
@Omnes Omnibus:
Whatever you want it to.
Morzer
@JWL:
No, I read your display of hypocritical jackassery and was disgusted by your self-indulgence. People have died today, people have lost limbs, people are in hospital getting ball-bearings cut out of their flesh – and you can think of nothing better to do but jerk off about how virtuous you are and what a victim you are because people call you out for your despicable self-absorption and self-indulgence. You are a remarkably low-grade sample of humanity and the sooner you recognize this and start turning your life around, the better. Don’t waste your time whining at me in future. Shape up.
Lurking Canadian
@SatanicPanic: If he had stayed calm, that would have proven fer sher he was in on it. /wingnut
Darkrose
@sylvan: Wait, what? Anne is personally responsible for some Boston-area officials overreacting to a prank?
JWL
@Morzer: Thanks for the response, M.
You’re the self-absorbed faux patriot, unwilling to face blatant, rude truths about what is done in the name of the people of the United States. Reprehensible acts, both foreign and domestic; like it or not, VIOLENCE is our middle name.
Your breed of cat invariably resents being told the score.
White Trash Liberal
“And then imagine how innocent, non-combatant people on the receiving end of a U.S. drone attack feel.”
I am going to go ahead and respond to this.
When a drone attack indeed does kill scores of innocent civilians in a feckless and wrongheaded application of COIN, we do not tell the citizens of the country upon whom we performed this act to now imagine how innocent Americans felt in the twin towers.
There is a time and a place to discuss the morality and outcomes of state and non-state acts of violence.
This is not that time or place. Just as you do not expect Afghanistan to have to mull over Al Qaeda when they are processing shock, grief and anger, so should all of us US citizens not have to deal with sanctimony such as yours while the body count is still in flux.
In short, you are being a prat. Stop.
sylvan
@Darkrose:
Only in the sense that slippery slopes are responsible.
Anne Laurie
@sylvan:
Don’t tell me — you’re Sweatshirt Hipster’s boyfriend.
Dude, I made fun of the LiteBrite pants-pissers and Miss Conceptual Artiste, too. How you think speaking cryptically about never-before-seen-bomb-sniffing-dogs!!eleventye-one! is supposed to be helpful, that’s the part I don’t grok.
Omnes Omnibus
@Anne Laurie: You know what you did. Just cop to it.
JWL
@White Trash Liberal: I disagree. This is both the time, and, thanks to the Balloon Juice forum, the place, to address and goddamn ALL violence.
sylvan
@Anne Laurie:
She’s really nice once you get to know her.
Not at all bitter like you.
Another Halocene Human
@Fair Economist: Pretty sure white supremacy is the silent partner behind the anti-tax, pro-gun rube lobby. (The corporate backers just want to make $$$ and figure the backblow will never touch them.)
Another Halocene Human
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Wow, only 3 hours from “OMG! to Boston, are you okay? How sad. to Fuck you, libs!”.
Must be a new record.
Another Halocene Human
@Davis X. Machina: Now there’s a DUKW boat-truck giving tours called Molly Molasses
Hush now, a Duck went down about a decade ago and about twenty people drowned.
Apropos of nothing, I had a friend, a proud Bostonian, who swore she could smell the spilled treacle in the summer.
Another Halocene Human
@SatanicPanic: Fuck you.
Another Halocene Human
@Mezz (fpa Michael2): But who else in Boston politics would they go after when they start spinning their conspiracy theories?
Disgraced felon ex-Boston City Councillor Chuck Turner orchestrated it all from the inside [of MCI Framingham]!
magurakurin
@JWL:
“shine box,” asshole. And Billy Batts, played by Frank Vincent, said that to Tommy DeSimone, played by Pesci.
Fucking dickhead. Don’t ever, ever, improperly use Goodfellas quotes around these parts.
JWL
@magurakurin: Upbraided, and acknowledged.
As for the “asshole” embellishment?
Go get your shoe box.
Another Halocene Human
@sylvan: Bomb-sniffing dogs were not a feature that I recall.
Dude, they’re there. Especially if they’re restricting vehicle access.
I’ve worked a couple of sporting events….
Another Halocene Human
@sylvan: Lol, what are you from, Providence?
Boston Marathon is huge in the running world. It’s had national coverage for many years. (It’s also had its share of controversies.)
The Boston Marathon is one of the things Boston is famous for. People come from all over the world to compete and you have to qualify for it, eg, it’s long since passed the point where quirky locals could just sign up and have a good time.
mdblanche
@Another Halocene Human: I think I’m noticing a pattern…
Mnemosyne
@JWL:
No, I’m pretty sure Malcolm X was right. The problem is that you don’t seem to understand his point given that your next point is this:
I really can’t figure out what you think this has to do with Malcolm X’s point.
magurakurin
@JWL:
Have you seen the movie? You do know what happens to Billy Batts in the next scene, right?
asshole.
dance around in your bones
@magurakurin
Heh. I was going to make the same point, but started yawning instead. I mean, if ya can’t get Goodfellas right….
JWL
@Mnemosyne: How many innocent people have been murdered (and there’s no other word for it) by the people of the United States, just since 1945?
In Vietnam/Cambodia/Laos alone, We The People slaughtered them by the hundreds of thousands. It was our first big lie war.
I was naive enough to believe We had afterwards learned our lesson.
So I was caught flat-footed when We The People launched a second big lie war in 2003. God alone-knows-how-many-more hundreds of thousands of innocent people were killed and/or maimed as a consequence of that application of violence on our part.
Meanwhile, back in the States: how many millions of people in the U.S. have been imprisoned since 1970 as a result of The War on Some Drugs? How many people have lost their homes because of a crooked bankers and Wall Street in (just) the past ten years? Where has the wealth generated by the workers of the United States gone in the past four decades? Certainly not in their pockets.
That is applied, domestic violence on a massive scale. And I haven’t scratched the surface, because I’m inarticulate.
Suffice to say, violence is effected in a myriad of ways.
Mnemosyne
@JWL:
And yet that wasn’t what Malcolm X was talking about, because he was speaking in 1963. He was talking about the sustained campaign of terror against African-Americans by their fellow citizens. Emmett Till. James Chaney. Medgar Evers. Addie Mae Collins, Cynthia Wesley, Carole Robertson, and Denise McNair.
And it’s kind of offensive that you would take his words about black oppression and decide to apply them to something that he wasn’t even thinking of. White privilege much?
JWL
@Mnemosyne: White privilege? I think you imply there being a “white guilt” on my part, and no, you’re not even in the ballpark with that supposition.
Again, violence is effected in many forms. Malcolm X understood that, and eloquently explained it from a point of view that even today eludes white America. MLK preached it; preached it in the noblest sense of its terrible implications on all the people, which is quite likely why he was shot.
I’m sacking out now. Thanks for response, and for hearing me out.
Peace & love, peace & love, peace & love….
Phoenician in a time of Romans
Remind me to be as smug the next time the ground opens up under Christchurch. After all, why am I supposed to give a fuck about a bunch of foreigners on the other side of the planet?
You have my full permission to do so, especially if my country is regularly causing greater earthquakes elsewhere in the world.
Mnemosyne
@JWL:
Malcolm explained his remark a few days later:
He is very clearly talking about how white Americans were allowed to brutalize black Americans, and that white Americans eventually turned on each other.
But, hey, if you want to believe he was talking about Vietnam before it happened, you go right ahead. Just know that by doing so, you are minimizing the actions of people who suffered and died in the United States of America to gain civil rights. You are minimizing the struggle that African-Americans went through to secure their rights by blathering about how all violence is, like, bad, dude — Malcolm said so!
Mnemosyne
@Phoenician in a time of Romans:
Shall we ask Tame Iti and Te Rangikaiwhiria Kemara about the wonderfully flawless justice system of New Zealand?
JWL
@Mnemosyne: @Mnemosyne: I lied. I haven’t sacked out yet.
Read into my comments what you will.
But that you have stated, as you have, that I somehow contend that Malcom X spoke explicitly of American violence in terms of the [then] unfolding War in Vietnam is dishonest of you. I do know better, and said nothing to trick any honest reader into thinking otherwise.
Mnemosyne
@JWL:
Go back and read your own comment at #398. You are reading meanings into Malcolm X’s words for your own purposes that he never intended, and claiming that he totally would have agreed with you about unrelated events, which is about as honest as the right-wingers who claim that the Founding Fathers would totally have agreed with their views on the Second Amendment. You are misappropriating his words and their meaning and applying your own meaning over them to make your own beliefs look like they have some authority.
Warren
Will you two just fuck already?