Open Thread: Forgive, Maybe; Forget, Never

iraq where are they now rall
(Ted Rall via
No forgiveness until the offender has owned up, though. Doghouse Riley shreds the tissue-thin facade of “who could have imagined?” Republican historicism regarding Dubya’s Grand Mesopotamian Adventure, as represented by the sodden online avatar of Peggy Noonan:

Iraq marked a departure in mood and tone from past conservatism.

Flummery. There’s a direct line to the Spanish American War, if you can be bothered picking up a pencil. And every minor grievance since, real or imagined. There’s certainly a broad highway from the post-Vietnam rewriting of history, which was largely a “conservative” enterprise, to the “we’re invincible so long as we try” routine here.

And, by the way, how ’bout y’all just quit hiding once and for all? Particularly behind this notion of “conservatism” as the most principled money-making scheme in human history…

Let’s just take a gander at that timeline, huh? The war began in Basra. Basra was considered to be a sweet, sweet walkover (they’re Shi’a! proclaimed the most literate among you, which did not include your then-sainted President, who didn’t know the difference). So much so that we let the Brits handle walking in on rose pedals while we prepared for the tough stuff; Basra was a sort of Pacific War of Iraq. It was supposed to be over in a day. I’m not making that up. Took two weeks. In retrospect, it’s too bad we couldn’t stick to the 14:1 ratio for the rest of the thing.

That first night we also announced that Shock ‘n’ Awe had, not certainly, but almost positively probably killed Saddam Hussein in his golden bed. A tell like that costs you your pants elsewhere.

Then, for no fucking military reason whatsoever, we managed to outrun our supply lines on Day Two, but, fortunately, PFC Jessica Lynch, the Pat Tillman of Iraq*, single-handedly wiped out a battalion, or something.

Then we took Baghdad, and realized we’d only brought enough MPs to guard the Oil Ministry. Fortunately, Don Rumsfeld was there to explain to us that that’s how it goes.

That fall a few dead-enders turned up to flummox the United States military with improvised WWI weapons.

Sadly, after that, things went downhill. Enough so that a couple years later Ramesh Ponnuru noticed….

Apart from not letting the grifters, sociopaths, and useful idiots succeed in their campaign to eliminate history in favor of marketing slogans, what’s on the agenda for the start of the weekend?

There’s some kind of basketball thingie on the teevee, yes?

273 replies
  1. 1
    scav says:

    running water in the appt would be nice. something has gone seriously wrong and this is day two of mysterious large clanging thumps echoing through the building.

  2. 2
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Well, googling Peggy Noonan Iraq War doesn’t take long, and presents a pretty rich field of choices, I picked Eric Boehlert from 2010

    Here she is on February 24, 2003, when Noonan chided two former Democratic presidents who had the nerve to air doubts about the war strategy (they were being “careless”!):
    Two of our former presidents, Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter, have been talking a lot about their views and feelings on Iraq. It would be nice if they took to speaking less and thinking more.
    From March 24, 2003, when Noonan officially declared a U.S. victory in Iraq, one week after the invasion (I’m not making that up):
    Iraq’s liberation will be the biggest good thing to happen since 9/11…The American president has, meanwhile, demonstrated to the entire world that he is neither a bombastic naïf nor a reckless cowboy but, in fact, another kind of American stereotype: the steely-eyed rocket man.

    My emphasis. As is often the case, if it were anyone else I’d wonder about a sly parody of Peggy’s Freudian id-goo.

    From April 7, 2003, when Noonan again announced the war in Iraq had been won:
    The war is almost over and young Americans on the ground have won it, and they are doing it like Americans of old. With their old sympathy and spirit, and a profound lack of hatred for the foe, and with compassion for the victims on the ground. Iraq, meet the grandchildren of the men who made the Marshall Plan.

  3. 3
    JPL says:

    Army bases were preparing for attacking Iraq way before 9/11.
    The idea that a terrorist attack caused us to attack Iraq is bull.

  4. 4
    Keith G says:

    Bassetball Jones!

    This, and spring cleaning and wine.

  5. 5
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Keith G: That basketball was like a basketball to me.

  6. 6
    Turgidson says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Steely-eyed rocket man. That…is something. I’d never seen that quote before. How did that not become an internet tradition?

    Hey Noonan, what are the signs in your neighborhood predicting these days? The ones that confidently told you Romney was about to breeze into the White House must be gone by now.

  7. 7
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    I heard that Chinua Achebe died today. Was there a thread?

  8. 8
    David Koch says:

    This is very sad.

    Elizabeth Warren has voted for sequestration and the NRA. She just voted for the “Senate CR bill that makes the sequestration cuts permanent and makes several pro-gun NRA policy riders permanent”.

    This was the perfect opportunity to take a stand against the crippling sequestration cuts. This was the perfect opportunity to filibusters the monstrous baby-killing agenda of the NRA. At the very least she should have voted against them. But no she folded like a cheap suit.

    She really has been a disappointment. She ran on Hope and Change, but has turned out be worst than Bush (Bush at least expanded spending and defied the NRA by supporting the assault weapons ban).

    And making matters worst, her supporters are robotic, blindly following her like cultists, with no one ever holding her feet to the fire.

    That said, I called her office and told her clerk I will never support her for any position again, not after voting for these savage, crippling, Draconian budget cuts and gun massacre provisions.

  9. 9
    Higgs Boson's Mate says:

    Sometimes I wish that I could again be outraged. Some time between the year 2000 and now my supply of outrage became exhausted.

  10. 10
    srv says:

    Obama on his 2nd Apology Tour!

    He began his visit to Amman with an apology.

    “I apologize for the delay,” Obama told Abdullah after arriving about an hour behind schedule. “We ended up having a dust storm.”

    And now he is concerned that Courtesy Bombs might leave Syria under the thrall of Islamists. Poor Samantha Power and her clique, one less thorn in Bibi’s side. Hopefully Susan Rice can scramble fast enough as the John McCains Best Friend drives his bus across State.

  11. 11
    Chris says:

    What’s this “maybe” bidness?

  12. 12
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Spaghetti Lee: That sucks. I loved “Things Fall Apart.”

    @David Koch: Give it a fucking rest. Your schtick is old and tired.

    ETA: And, dude, even it wasn’t old and tired before, it certainly is when you are spamming every thread with it.

  13. 13
    PsiFighter37 says:

    Good thing I didn’t make a bracket this year, it looks like things are blowing up a-plenty. I resolve to go to one of the regional rounds at the beginning of the tournament next year – tons of basketball and probably boozing all day.

    Otherwise, I’m burnt out. Next week is a two-day week for me and then going to Chicago for the long weekend. Just exhausted and tired and needing a break.

  14. 14
    Redshirt says:

    Two factors in the Iraq Part 2: The Bushening that I’ve not seen mentioned:

    1. I think there was a widespread belief at the time that the American military machine was unstoppable, untouchable, absolute impervious. Past “wars” had given this belief some validity (Iraq 1 and onward).

    2. The Powers that Be needed to cleanse Vietnam from memory. No more of these “Powell Doctrine” engagements. The empire needed to wade into murkier areas.

    These two points feed each other, and alongside general Republican incompetence, led to the massive delusions of our “leaders” at the time.

  15. 15
    Chris says:

    Flummery. There’s a direct line to the Spanish American War Mexican War

    FTFY. And I should note that I don’t know nearly as much about history before the Civil War as after, so I’m open to correction in favor of an even earlier conflict.

  16. 16
    MikeJ says:


    Army bases were preparing for attacking Iraq way before 9/11.

    Which army bases are those? I think there are several people here who were at some of those army bases. Perhaps you could ask them about it.

  17. 17
    Chris says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Iraq, meet the grandchildren of the men who made the Marshall Plan.

    It’s the fact that our conservatives get to cash in on the accomplishments of long dead liberals even while preaching and practicing the exact opposite of said accomplishments that grates.

  18. 18
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:


    There’s a direct line to the Spanish American War Mexican War

    Beat me to it.

    We planned on stealing the oil. That was the real motivation all along. Cheney and co. knew that Peak Oil was coming soon if not here already and they planned a land grab aimed at what at some point in the forseeable future would become some of the most valuable real estate on the planet, aka huge untapped oil reserves.

    Funny how that earlier example (the Mexican War) was also criticized by a tall and skinny dude from Illinois, who was serving in Congress at the time.

  19. 19
    Omnes Omnibus says:


    1. I think there was a widespread belief at the time that the American military machine was unstoppable, untouchable, absolute impervious. Past “wars” had given this belief some validity (Iraq 1 and onward).

    In mechanized warfare, it damn near is/was. That is what that army had been built and trained to do. There was no way that Saddam’s forces could have stopped our army – even if he had used chemical weapons. What the army was not built for and what the Bush Administration did not take into account was holding territory in the face of insurgents. GEN Shinseki had warned about this prior to the war and was basically fired for it.

  20. 20
    gene108 says:

    Weekend blows. My team got bounced.

    I’m going to lie in bed and get so fat they have to get me out with a forklift.

  21. 21
    David Koch says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: what are you talking about, this was on the front page of Balloon Juice. Thankfully Zander brought this sell out to our attention. Have you read the NRA provisions she voted for? They’re horrifying. Absolutely blood curling horrifying. It’s okay when Rand Paul holds a filibuster, but Dems can’t even be bothered to rise in opposition to the freaking NRA after Newtown! And this is why the NRA gets away with it–no one, not even Warren, will expose their outrageous conduct with an old fashion filibuster. That’s just lazy and grossly negligent. This is not what I voted for and I will hold her feet to the fire every time she sells us out casts a vote as horrid as she did for the baby-killing gun lobby, even when that offends Dear Leader’s zombie like supporters. John Edwards was right-liberals have to stand up and fight!

  22. 22
    Ben Franklin says:

    Hmmm…veto powers? ‘Natch !

  23. 23
    JPL says:

    @MikeJ: After Bush was elected they prepared for all types of warfare and Iraq was one of them.

  24. 24
    Gin & Tonic says:

    Curious here, does anyone (Kay?) have any opinion about Education Pioneers? It sounds like another of the education privatization groups, but I’m not sure.

  25. 25
    Chris says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I read General Zinni’s biography (retired Marine at the time of the Iraq War, one of its opponents) when it came out and remember one of his big points being that as far as he was concerned, Gulf War I was the worst thing that happened to the U.S. military; it left the impression that we were going to simply go back to fighting conventional wars (essentially refighting World War Two, the Army’s wet dream since forever) when the reality was that murky, asymmetric, non-conventional wars were going to be a far bigger thing. History’s certainly borne that out, methinks.

  26. 26
    gene108 says:


    It’s the fact that our conservatives get to cash in on the accomplishments of long dead liberals even while preaching and practicing the exact opposite of said accomplishments that grates.

    I remember back in those days, people were saying “what if liberals had been in charge during WW2” and thinking WTF? FDR’s a conservative, let alone his VP Henry Wallace and the media just nodded along and agreed.

    Also, too the saddest thing is our reverence for generals. When Iraq started the generals, who went along with Bush & Co., were never in jeopardy of their jobs, no matter how badly things went. In WW2, the guys running Pearl Harbor got shit canned. In Iraq, the guys who came up with that disastrous strategy got medals.

  27. 27
    Hill Dweller says:

    @David Koch: Warren, and a bunch of other Dems(33), voted to eliminate the medical device tax in Obamacare. Granted, it was a symbolic amendment to a non-binding budget resolution, but why vote to eliminate an important part of Obamacare?

  28. 28
    srv says:

    @David Koch: Dude, the Newtown and NRA Rage crowd here has run out of Kool-Aid and would like y’all to not remind them about it, but they would like to get a last few punches in on the DFH’s because it makes them feel superior about it.

  29. 29
    Maxwell's Demon says:

    Here’s the real history we should all remember set to the tune of one of the great songs ever written, “The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty” by the late Townes Van Zandt. I take responsibility for the lyrics.

    Each man to highest manor born
    Black sheep of their clans adorned
    One a rebel he became
    The other traded on his name

    Bin Laden living in a tent
    Bush was appointed President
    On a collision course they went
    To everlasting shame

    Bin Laden was a terrorist
    He struck our home with airborne fist
    Though he was warned by Briefing Note
    Bush sat reading My Pet Goat.

    Protected by the Taliban
    Bin Laden in Afghanistan
    To caves in Tora Bora ran
    Where he’s gone nobody knows.

    All the loyal Bushies say
    They could have had him any day
    They only let him slip away
    Out of kindness I suppose.

    He could not be found anywhere
    Bush claimed he truly did not care
    My plans will take different tack,
    The war I wanted with Iraq.

    Scores of thousands now lie dead
    Three trillion dollars in the red
    The Constitution but a shred
    Torture in our name arose.

    Wiretaps outside the law
    Tax cuts let the rich take more
    Cutting brush in Crawford town
    While New Orleans is left to drown.

    Millions of their homes bereft
    Bankers bailed out right and left
    Their bonuses another theft
    No pain for CEOs.

    All the loyal Bushies say
    We could have had him any day
    We only let him slip away
    Out of kindness I suppose.

    The new Commander, Barack O
    Without false braggadocio
    Pledged that he would make it so
    Bin Laden would be found.

    Dispatched the Navy SEAL Team Six
    The evil doer’s fate to fix
    The President withheld the pix
    Now comes a raucous sound.

    From the right a plaintive cry
    Hey, give the credit to our guy
    We have a ready alibi,
    Our long list of To Do’s.

    All the loyal Bushies say
    We could have had him any day
    We only let him slip away
    Better our time to use.

    Hear those craven Bushies say
    They could have had him any day
    But that’s a tune that doesn’t play
    Save on Fox so called News.

  30. 30
    Lurking Canadian says:

    @David Koch: May I submit that it might be a good idea to wait for a firebagger to turn on Senator Warren before you start condemning and satirizing the firebaggers who turn on Warren?

  31. 31
    Lavocat says:

    Fuck forgiveness. I’m all for holding a grudge until death.
    Unforgiven AND unforgotten. And fuck them til the end of the world.

  32. 32
    Chris says:


    Our reverence for generals? Well… some generals, maybe. But if memory serves, the political/civilian elite at the top of the Pentagon (Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Feith) were the ones who were running the show – generals were either just repeating what they were told or, like Shinseki, objecting only to get shit and pissed on for their troubles.

    In fact one of my memories of what first turned me off of the Bushies and their groupies was that it’s when I noticed how quickly their “support the troops” shtick evaporated the very second anyone of “the troops” (whether active duty like Shinseki or veterans like Cleland) dared to not go along with their horseshit.

  33. 33
    jl says:

    Whoever could have imagined that a war could ‘spin out of control’? Boy, that just came out of the blue, didn’t it?

    And that is just the practical side, apart from the criminality, or to be extra charitable, the unilateral vigilante excess, of the whole enterprise.

  34. 34
    Redshirt says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Oh, we knew that. But the Bush Admin apparently did not. Thus the “Iraqis will greet us with flowers” and “Oh, we don’t need that many troops to secure the country”, and the myriad other terrible decisions they made. They believed our invincible power would both “shock” any enemy into not fighting, and “awe” the Iraqis into supporting us.

    Did not turn out to be the case!

  35. 35
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Chris: Senior officers who had made their careers in line units in WWII and Korea thought that counter-insurgency in Southeast Asia would be a cakewalk too. Funny how that works out.

    Being Cassandra sucks; your prediction is right, but no one believes you.

  36. 36
    FlipYrWhig says:

    I still don’t understand the method Ted Rall uses to draw cartoons. It’s like he’s right handed but he draws with… his nose.

    I like that Friedman is trying to hail a cab, though. That’s witty.

  37. 37
    ruemara says:

    @Lurking Canadian: Why does she get a pass? Hell, why does Sanders get a pass on his vote against closing Gitmo? So many liberal heroes get a pass on being effective, voting against horrible amendments-as long as they make good soundbites for upworthy and Thom Hartmann, yet the President takes the big beating for their failures in Congress. I may understand the vote and know how they will try to do an end run to getting the better laws passed, but I do not quite get how the nuance and patience is only for your favourite senator/congress person but nothing for that evil monster living at 1600 Pen.

    @FlipYrWhig: Rall give me hope for all people who can’t really draw that good. Like me.

  38. 38
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Lurking Canadian: I think the satire isn’t of people turning on Warren, it’s of people who long since turned on Obama _not_ applying the same standards to Warren.

  39. 39
    lamh35 says:

    The karma Gods cannot be this good! If the Bow-tied buffoon and his rag can be linked to this, I may have to do something to affirm my belief in the karma Gods (what would one sacrifice to the Gods of Karma anyway??)

    If the Daily Caller link is definitive, what are Menendez’s options ala litigation? Take Tucker for all he’s worth!

    Dominican official links Daily Caller to alleged lies about Menendez

  40. 40
    Ben Franklin says:

    The Military quohogs should not be left out.

    McChrystal and Petraeus should be visited at least once per year by the Ghost of Pat Tillman.

  41. 41
    MattR says:

    @PsiFighter37: NCAA tournament events are alcohol free. The tailgate beforehand is a different story. The tournament was a great experience when I went 5 years ago. Would have been cooler if I wasn’t rooting for a 15 seed and if I was part of a larger group. But I also had a full access pass which more than made up for it.

  42. 42
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:


    When Iraq started the generals, who went along with Bush & Co., were never in jeopardy of their jobs, no matter how badly things went. In WW2, the guys running Pearl Harbor [footnote] got shit canned. In Iraq, the guys who came up with that disastrous strategy got medals.

    That’s how you can spot the difference between a war for protecting vital national interests, and one that isn’t. Heads roll at the top when vital interests are at stake. Otherwise, medals for everybody!

    [footnote]: well, except for Douglas MaCarthur, who fucked up our defenses in the Phillipines worse than anything in Hawaii, and got promoted for it. But then he was golden. And he got promoted into a command where arguably he could do the least amount of damage to our total war effort, compared with anywhere else they might have put him.

  43. 43
    gene108 says:


    Like I said, the generals, who towed the Bush & Co. line got rewarded. They were praised as heroes and liberators. Questioning their decisions about how the war was conducted, got you told you were being unpatriotic.

    There was no objective evaluation of our military’s performance. It was all about making sure there was a Permanent Republican Majority.

    From what I remember, there was a lot ducking and covering, by Bush & Co., behind the “we have to do what the generals tell us to do”, so don’t blame us for fucking things up or the generals are doing a wonderful job, like when Franks got the Medal of Freedom, when he retired.

    Outside of Shinseki, there really wasn’t anyone saying anything in public and what Shinseki did was honestly answer a question posed to him, while testifying before Congress.

    It’s not like he was at the head of any anti-war protests.

  44. 44
    David Koch says:

    @Hill Dweller:

    Warren, and a bunch of other Dems(33), voted to eliminate the medical device tax in Obamacare

    Holy shit.

    I didn’t even know that. I mean really, that’s a sickening vote.

    I can understand why the DLC-corporatists-Dem wing of the party would vote for that, but Et tu, Elizabeth Warren.

    She’s in a rock solid seat in a deep blue state, did she really have to cast a corporatist vote to defund ACA? I mean, obviously she doesn’t need the money to win reelection in Massachusetts. This move can only interpreted as a preparatory move to raise bundles of Wall Street cash for a national run. What a sell out.

  45. 45
    PeakVT says:

    @Gin & Tonic: I never heard of the organization before, but that website is just chock full of suspiciously vague marketing verbage. OTOH, I don’t see any noted right-wingers on the board. It doesn’t seem to have irritated many people yet because a quick search on the web doesn’t yield much information.

  46. 46
    Paula says:

    Elizabeth Warren casts some actual votes.

    Oh look, they are disappointing.

    What a surprise.

    I’m sure this will be conveniently ignored by by the Troo Pwogwessives(tm).

  47. 47
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @PeakVT: Right, there’s not much on the web, and Michelle Rhee isn’t listed as a board member, so it can’t be all bad. A friend is applying for a fellowship, which is actual cash money, but I don’t know if it’s icky cash.

  48. 48
  49. 49
    raven says:

    Jesus what a maddening Illini game. The ONLY saving grace is that we won!

  50. 50
    kay says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    They’re privatizers. Funded by Walton, Broad and Gates. Private SECTOR schools rather than for-profits. I think we’re going to start seeing that used. Fir profit colleges are already using the new and improved label.

    I’m joining up with public school/anti-privatization people close to here. It was inevitable :)

    Anyway, they’re an Indiana group so if I go to the IN statehouse I can visit with my Tea Party SIL, Angela , always a pleasure.

    I haven’t found an OH group I would be interested in joining with yet.

  51. 51
    Valdivia says:

    Had to take the bandage off my toe today. Felt way worse than the surgery and it’s aftermath. Definitely not for the faint of heart. I am now on my second glass of spiced rum. Because life is too short and my foot doesn’t feel like it’s going to explode when I have a drink.


  52. 52
    Paula says:

    @David Koch:

    Consensus sez that there are a lot of medical device manufacturers in Mass.

    IOW, she’s protecting the corporations within her state.

    You know, that’s defensible to me as a person who generally understands and accepts how pork and patronage helps to bring in business and jobs and, of course, money for your reelection campaign.

    But fuck her firebagger fans and the holy high ground they stake.

  53. 53
    David Koch says:

    @Lurking Canadian:

    May I submit that it might be a good idea to wait for a firebagger to turn on Senator Warren before you start condemning and satirizing the firebaggers who turn on Warren?

    Change doesn’t come unless it’s bottom up. Voting rights wasn’t done because of LBJ (he wouldn’t even submit a bill to congress), it happened because the bottom placed overwhelming pressure on the top.

    Yesterday there was thread discussing how Obama wanted to close GITMO but was stabbed in the back by liberal icons like Bernie Sanders and St. Russ Feingold.

    Unlike yesteryear, today’s keyboard activists places emphasis on who ever holds the presidency, (rightfully so), but they give a free pass to Senators and Congressmen, especially their favorites, like Feingold and Warren.

    Obama or Hillary or whomever is president will never get anything done, even something as popular as an assault weapons ban or closing GITMO, if today’s activists never place pressure on Senators to unite and support the President in doing the right thing.

    I had hoped Warren would be different with her safe seat and great communication skills. I had hopped she would take the Senate and country by storm, using her Bully Pulpit and the filibuster, but she’s been a complete failure. It’s not to late to turn it around, but she won’t unless we hold her feet to the fire.

  54. 54
    Baud says:

    @Lurking Canadian:

    before you start condemning and satirizing the firebaggers who turn on Warren?

    To be fair, I think he’s mocking the criticisms levied against Obama using Warren to highlight that a lot of criticisms weren’t sensible.

  55. 55
    4tehlulz says:

    @David Koch: In all seriousness, Cambridge has quite the medical device industry. I’m actually not surprised by this at all.

  56. 56
    YellowJournalism says:

    @FlipYrWhig: I’ve often thought the same thing, only with a different, ah, appendage.

    Dirty minds and all. ;)

  57. 57
    Paula says:


    Yeah, that’s what I thought.

  58. 58
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Valdivia: Have you considered hitting a different toe with a mallet? It would take your mind off the one that currently hurts.

    I know you are probably tired of answering this by now, but how did you do the original damage – unless it is too, too embarrassing to say? My ex broke her little toe by accidentally kicking a chair leg, and I have lost a couple of toenails to ski boots – I like the boots to be really tight to give me more control, occasionally one gets the balance wrong.

  59. 59
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @kay: Thanks, Kay. My friend is excited about the opportunity – as I said, it’s actual cash money, and it seems to draw some pretty high-powered applicants.

  60. 60
    Ben Franklin says:


    But fuck her firebagger fans and the holy high ground they stake.

    This seems to be the crux of the Obot/firebagger dispute. Obots see FB’s as taking the high moral ground.

    Fucking take it back !!!!!!!!!!!! No one is stopping you.

  61. 61
    JWL says:

    I could as easily forgive the Nuremberg defendants as those that engineered the bloody stain on America’s honor in March of 2003.

    Goddamn Them All.

  62. 62
    PeakVT says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Even if they are privatizers, she could take the money and write about the experience. If they have the backing kay indicates, then they’re a stealthy group that needs to be put in the spotlight.

    Plus, you know, jobby jobs are hard to find right now, and your friend may simply need the money.

  63. 63
    Baud says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    how did you do the original damage

    Ass kicking. It’s what Valdivia does.

  64. 64
    Maxwell's Demon says:

    @David Koch: Let us know when you find your (unelectable) saint. Oh, and the nose you cut off in spite.

  65. 65
    Ben Franklin says:

    @Maxwell’s Demon:

    Fuck you and your practical sensibilities. Try reaching out for a hand when you need it and I’ll tell you to go find a fucking Saint.

  66. 66

    Having a furious internal debate right now- have had a sore throat the last two days and am pretty sure drinking will make it worse. Not sure that will stop me from drinking anyway. What would be worse for a sore throat- beer or cocktails?

  67. 67
  68. 68
    Baud says:


    Beer, then cocktails.

  69. 69
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @SatanicPanic: I think the bubbles in beer will aggravate it. Have a couple of cocktails.

  70. 70
    kay says:


    I agree with that and of course I am not the job police :)

    They’re a non profit, it’s just that “non profit” doesnt mean that much in the incredibly complex world ‘o school reform, so I’m reflexively wary at this point. Jeb Bush has an absolutely bewildering web of interlocking “non profits”.

  71. 71
    Ben Franklin says:


    I don’t recall any humor on this subject….

  72. 72
    raven says:

    Md calls at 7:40 pm to tell me my blood work kicked ass!

  73. 73

    @Baud: @Gin & Tonic: Yeah, I’m thinking something sweet can’t be too bad.

  74. 74
    Baud says:


    Congrats. At first I was wondering why the state of Maryland was calling you about your blood work, then I figured you had too good of a time in Baltimore, then I got it.

  75. 75
    raven says:

    @Baud: Not too good at punctuation. I had to sign up for a damn colonoscopy too, 3 years overdue. boo

  76. 76
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @raven: They’re not that big a deal. The prep sucks, but the actual procedure is a piece of cake.

  77. 77
    kay says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I don’t have any problem with “reform”, really.

    I just don’t want to lose public schools. I think we’ll regret that. I think there are parents in Chicago who are regretting it right now, and loudly!

    Good for them.

  78. 78

    I think Warren ran on repealing the medical device tax. If there was replacement revenue from somewhere, who cares?

  79. 79
    raven says:

    Blue dog John Barrow’s son got arrested twice in two days for alcohol related charges. It’s the third time this year.

  80. 80
  81. 81
    raven says:

    @Gin & Tonic: This is not my first. I had one at 50 and was going to at 60 when I got a thrombosis roid brought on by the quick-step. Unfortunately I had a roid on the other side and I really don’t want to induce another thrombosis.

  82. 82
    BruceJ says:

    Like the DC line. That song has been on autorepeat in my head for a week now.

    Also Ted left off ‘Phil Donohue: fired for being anti war. Still not employed.’

    I’m not ready to make nice
    I’m not ready to back down
    I’m still mad as hell and
    I don’t have time to go round and round and round
    It’s too late to make it right
    I probably wouldn’t if I could
    ‘Cause I’m mad as hell
    Can’t bring myself to do what it is you think I should

  83. 83
    Ben Franklin says:


    I guess the limits of your serious nature have been reached….

  84. 84
    22over7 says:


    Have a cocktail in honor of your throat, then have one in honor of valdavia and the damaged toe, then have one in honor of the University of Colorado (go Buffs) who lost to Illinois this afternoon.

    I’ll join you.

  85. 85
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @raven: Yuck.

  86. 86
    Redshirt says:

    @Ben Franklin: I can’t speak for all Obots (or can I?), but I dislike (not hate!) firebaggers for their “attacks during a time of war”. Obama is our best shot at correcting this ship while withstanding the fierce storms of Republican insanity and hate. The war is a Civil one, and it’s the Republicans versus the world. EVERYTHING we should be doing is opposing the Republicans, together. Thus, often incorrect attacks on Obama from the so called Left – the Firebaggers – are directly undermining our main weapon in this war: Barack Obama.

    I know (hope) Firebaggers want to stop the Republican Party too, so this internal squabbling is doubly frustrating.

  87. 87
    Lurking Canadian says:

    @Baud: Yes, I think I misunderstood. That is some two level meta-snark with a half-gainer. I couldn’t follow Mr Koch all the way through. My bad.

  88. 88
    raven says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Almost as yucky as my flesh eatin beetles and fish head!

  89. 89
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @raven: Haven’t had dinner yet, thanks.

  90. 90
    the Conster says:


    Thisety this. Half of my family is now VERY well employed in Kendall Square, whose denizens voted for Obama and Warren like by 50 points. This is what politics looks like.

  91. 91
    Ben Franklin says:


    I understand the need for unity, but “. EVERYTHING we should be doing is opposing the Republicans,’

    When Republicans are leading the charge on civil rights, something is amiss. There is little comfort in a POTUS who is egregiously pragmatic, without balls of fire, for the sake of the Republic, when the Republic is burning.

  92. 92
    Redshirt says:

    @raven: Were like death beetles crawling out of the half stripped fish skull? All creepyfying like?

  93. 93
    raven says:

    @raven: Wanna see some pics?

  94. 94
    Redshirt says:

    @Ben Franklin: LOL wut? Republicans for Civil Rights? Do explain.

  95. 95

    @22over7: Why not? Pretty much all the push I needed

  96. 96
    raven says:

    @Redshirt: Or they are all over under sideways down on it. It’s been in there for almost 2 months now.

  97. 97
    Maude says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Valdavia had her toe crushed by someone’s heel in a shoe. Oh, ouch.
    It’s better that it was.
    Remind me to tell her to keep her feet warm next winter because the cold will make it ache.
    You should always have ski boots custom fitted. Same with bindings.
    When I skied. I did that.

  98. 98
    El Cid says:

    Look, people who believe their advocacy of war is a moral gesture whose aim is the protecting of other peoples’ rights shouldn’t be required to prove their case.

  99. 99
    raven says:

    @Maude: I dropped a really heavy jack stand on my tow and it hit right between the knuckle and the nail. Hurt like hell and turned all kinds of purple but I didn’t lose the nail. Blind ass luck.

  100. 100
    Ben Franklin says:


    Cornyn and Issa are the only ones concerned with the malicious prosecution of whistleblowers, and dangerous types like Aaron schwarz, and Rand stood alone against Obama’s nomination of John Brennan.

    They have ulterior motives, but what are the motives of progressives?

  101. 101
    22over7 says:


    To your health!

  102. 102
    the Conster says:

    @El Cid:

    Needs moar WOLVERINES!

  103. 103
    Omnes Omnibus says:


    You should always have ski boots custom fitted.

    I do. I just always get them really tight. I do think it makes a difference. Alberto Tomba used to get his boots fitted so that his foot touched the edges of the shell before his custom fitted lining went in; I never was that psycho, but then I was never that good either.

  104. 104
    raven says:

    @22over7: Oskeewow!!!

  105. 105
    raven says:

    Florida Gulf Coast up 17 on the Hoyas!

  106. 106
    Svensker says:

    Yes, a 1000 times yes.

    But it’s rose “petals” not “pedals.” Unless the rose has wheels, in which case, never mind.

    ETA: Oh wait, that was Doghouse. My apologies, AL.

  107. 107
    Anya says:

    @Hill Dweller: Worst of them all is Amy Klobuchar and her “tax cuts create jobs” crap. Dems are a hapless bunch.

  108. 108
    raven says:

    @efgoldman: I dead lifted a Harley a few years back and was peein blood. I got a Cystoscopy and it wasn’t near as bad as they say it is.

  109. 109
    piratedan says:

    I’d remember them a lot more fondly if most of them were in prison.

  110. 110
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @efgoldman: Endoscopy is way easier. I have an issue, so I need one every 3 years.

  111. 111
    Redshirt says:

    @Ben Franklin: Funny stuff. Thanks. :)

  112. 112
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Redshirt: He is serious.

  113. 113
    dance around in your bones says:

    Hubris is on MSNBC again tonight at 9pm Eastern, 6pm lefty coast, so I guess I’ll watch it again and get all pissed off.

    Maybe have to imbibe some wine to handle it.

    Why do I do this to myself.

    eta: REALLY had a good time last night watching The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel on HBO. Check it out!

  114. 114
    Ben Franklin says:


    Funny stuff. Thanks. :)

    And you wonder; ‘why the Fb’s so acerbic?”

    You guys (Omnes included) are so far out of your depth.

  115. 115
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Ben Franklin: Without getting into a whole thing about the underlying issues, I think most people would refer to those as civil _liberties_ matters, not civil _rights_.

  116. 116
  117. 117
    Ben Franklin says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Yes. Have those ski-boots custom-fitted.

  118. 118
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Anya: Heck, even The Economist, of all sources, says direct infrastructure investment creates 30% more jobs than tax cuts.

  119. 119
    Ben Franklin says:


    Yes. Thank you much for your contribution.

  120. 120
    West of the Rockies says:

    Only scanned the first 30 or so comments, but I didn’t see Rice’s name mentioned. Shouldn’t good, ol’ Condi be pictured in this rogue’s gallery?

  121. 121
    dance around in your bones says:

    @raven: Prolly a better idea.

  122. 122
    22over7 says:


    Yeah, yeah. My spouse is an Illini, and the game came with bets. I owe him now.

    So enjoy your evening and think of me, stuck in this house with a guy wearing blue and orange shoes.

  123. 123
    Baud says:

    @Ben Franklin:

    You guys (Omnes included) are so far out of your depth.

    Yet here you are, with us always. You’re like the Buddha spreading enlightenment.

  124. 124
    Ben Franklin says:


    So, take back the high moral ground; if you can.

  125. 125
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Ben Franklin: The Republicans you named have no interest in the issues you care about. They are interested in attacking Obama specifically and Democrats generally. Other than that, they don’t care. They aren’t actually leading on the issues.

  126. 126
    raven says:

    @22over7: Hell Yes! I was born in Urbana and lived there from 69 to 84 when I moved to Georgia. I bleed Orange and Blue!

  127. 127
    Baud says:

    @Ben Franklin:

    I’ll get right on that.

  128. 128
    Omnes Omnibus says:


    I bleed Orange and Blue!

    And they said your blood work looked good?

  129. 129
    raven says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: My MD is an Illinois grad too!

    eta But my dad did coach at Wauwatosa too!

  130. 130
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @raven: Okay then.

  131. 131
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @raven: I know a bunch of people who teach there.

  132. 132
    raven says:

    @FlipYrWhig: At Illinois or Wauwatosa?

  133. 133
    Maude says:

    You’re in good form tonight.

  134. 134
    Baud says:


    You’re too kind, Maude.

  135. 135
    22over7 says:


    Got you all beat. The spouse was the manager for the varsity men’s basketball team, back in the day. In a very real way, I’m glad Colorado lost. It means that I don’t have to deal with the fallout.

  136. 136
    Ben Franklin says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Do you actually ever read posts you comment on?

    Amicus brief, aside, that is.

  137. 137
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @raven: The Illin’ I.

  138. 138
    raven says:

    @22over7: Years please? Lou, Lon, Bill, or Bruce. I was the football beat writer for the Weekly in the Rose Bowl (83-84) season.

  139. 139
    Ben Franklin says:

    I’ll get right on that.

    Maude says to stay away from that. It might hurt your status here.

  140. 140
    raven says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Ah, great institution. I’ve been gone for 28 years so I’m not too up on the faculty.

  141. 141
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Ben Franklin: Yes, but the ulterior motives are all they have. It isn’t like they are allies on these issue who also happen be opponents of Obama and the Democrats. Opposing is all they care about. So, as I said, they are not leading on these issues.

  142. 142
    the Conster says:

    @dance around in your bones:

    Love love love that movie. I laughed, I cried.

  143. 143
    22over7 says:


    He says, manager 76 to 80.

    We’re very old.

  144. 144
    raven says:

    HOLY SHIT! the most amazing alley-oop for Florida Gulf Coast EVAH! Grey dudes too!

  145. 145
    raven says:

    @22over7: Not as old as me. I hung quite a bit with Derek Holcomb.


    Levi, Neal, Mark, Eddie and Urbana’s finest Kenny Ferdinand.

    I actually graduated in 78, started in 69.

  146. 146
    Faux News says:

    I am still waiting for the dancing and flowers. And for the Iraqi oil to pay for the entire invasion and occupation. And for the DOD to admit the toppling of the Saddam statue was a CIA orchestrated event. I won’t hold my breath though.

  147. 147
    22over7 says:

    Spouse says that Holcomb was a cool guy, and so was Kevin Westerfeld.

    edited to add: don’t forget Steve Lanter, Rob Judson, and Larry Luben. Spouse was the guy who wore the orange tie.

  148. 148
    Maude says:

    @Ben Franklin:
    I’m still stuck on when Cheney said No Douht about WMD, Russert didn’t ask who had no doubt. He let that statement hang there like the truth of the ages.

  149. 149
    Baud says:

    @Ben Franklin:

    Maude’s good people.

  150. 150
  151. 151
    raven says:

    @22over7: He ended up being a professor at EKU.

  152. 152
    dance around in your bones says:

    @the Conster: It really is quite good.

    I just loved the startled reactions of the newcomers to India. And the way(some)of them adjusted their views – just a stellar cast and an hilarious and moving film. I urge anyone to see it. It’s full of heart.

    Especially if you’ve been to India – “what’s a tuk-tuk?”

  153. 153
    raven says:

    Florida Gulf Coast over the Hoyas!!!

  154. 154
    22over7 says:


    Spouse says he was sitting at the end of the bench and leaped in the air when EJ made the shot to win the game vs. MSU. Too bad they lost to OSU in the next game.

  155. 155
    Todd says:


    My brackets are fried, but so are everybody else’s.

  156. 156
  157. 157
    raven says:

    @Todd: I’m in a Calcutta, if the Illini can win again, or Northwest can beat the Gators $$$$$$!

  158. 158
    Bob2 says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: hey remember Peggy noonan’s “keep walking” editorial?

  159. 159
    the Conster says:

    @dance around in your bones:

    India’s a metaphor for leaving your bubble, because there are other places I’ve been that Americans, who are analogs to the Maggie Smith and Penelope Wilton characters, can’t handle. I’ve been all over Central and South America with friends and family, and there is an attitude that some Americans have that they just can’t see beyond. That’s why I loved the movie so much. It just reverberated with insight. It felt real and important.

  160. 160
    raven says:

    @22over7: If Eddie had dunked it Kelvin Ransey wouldn’t have had the block and we would have beat OSU too!

  161. 161
    raven says:

    @the Conster: Ever see Men With Guns by Sayles?

  162. 162
    22over7 says:

    He says that you’ve probably met, or seen each other, or had beers at the same bar. Illini Inn? Murphy’s? Embassy?

  163. 163
    the Conster says:


    No – can I get it on Netflix?

  164. 164
    Todd says:


    @Todd: I’m in a Calcutta, if the Illini can win again, or Northwest can beat the Gators $$$$$$!

    The post game on this is great.

  165. 165
    raven says:

    @22over7: Yea, Todd and John’s, the Embassy, Chins too. Got thrown in jail for underage at the Illini in (when it was the Midway) 10 days after I came home from Nam in 69! Lived in Bromely Hall.

  166. 166
    dance around in your bones says:

    Ok, raven – I didn’t take your and am watching Hubris and it is pissing me the fuck off.

    Oh hell. Never forgive, never forget.

  167. 167
    Mike in NC says:

    @gene108: Read “The Generals” by Tom Ricks for an excellent analysis of American military dysfunction since 9/11.

  168. 168
    raven says:

    @the Conster: Looks like no. Hell of a film. A retired MD in a nameless central American country goes on a journey to find his legacy, other doctors he trained. Everywhere he goes there is death and mayhem visited on the villagers. He asks “was it soldiers or revolutionaries”? They say “we don’t know, it was men with guns”. What made me think of it is the two dumb ass American tourists that stumble through the film looking for “quesadillas”. Great sound track and heavy flick.

  169. 169
    22over7 says:


    You got arrested at the Illini Inn? That’s a badge of honor. Spouse asked me to marry him there.

  170. 170
    raven says:

    @22over7: Yea, it was called the Midway until the early 70’s. There was a sign on the wall outside that said “Sudden Service”. I remember my ex and I walking by and a guy had slipped at the top of that stairway. He came right through the glass door.

  171. 171
    raven says:

    @22over7: So you are an Illini too?

  172. 172
    raven says:

    @22over7: I was part of the Record Service tribe too.

  173. 173
    22over7 says:


    No. I matriculated at the University of Colorado Boulder go Buffs, but I lived in Champaign for a few years.

  174. 174
    dance around in your bones says:

    @the Conster:

    I said something similar to that last night in a reply to Anne Laurie, that I’d seen people who flew right into India from the West just freak out. Traveling overland from (say, Amsterdam) gave you a while to ease your way into other cultures.

    I think every American should travel. It should be a prerequisite after high school and before college (if one goes).

    It’s a great education in the University of Life.

  175. 175
    raven says:

    @22over7: Lot’s of friends went to Boulder in the early 70’s. Sort of followed Fogleberg up to Nederland and Ruby Gulch.

  176. 176
    raven says:

    @dance around in your bones:


    Fun Travel and Adventure

    (fuck the army)

  177. 177
    22over7 says:


    Fogelberg. Now you’re just messing with me.

  178. 178
    dance around in your bones says:

    @raven: Well, now that’s an interesting juxtaposition.

    Though now that you mention it, I remember a saying back in the day – something about join the Army, travel the world, meet interesting people, and kill them.

  179. 179
    raven says:

    @22over7: He hung around alot. Played at Channing Murray and used to come out to the crazy houses we had at Brownfield Woods. After he got famous he came to play the Assembly Hall and I had blown my ankle playing hoops that day so my ex and her friend went to dinner with him and hung back stage while I immersed my foot in ice water!I didn’t know him very well but my ex’s bestie knew him very well.

  180. 180
    Chris says:

    @Mike in NC:

    I’m reading the book summary on Amazon;

    History has been kind to the American generals of World War II—Marshall, Eisenhower, Patton, and Bradley—and less kind to the generals of the wars that followed. In The Generals, Thomas E. Ricks sets out to explain why that is. In part it is the story of a widening gulf between performance and accountability. During the Second World War, scores of American generals were relieved of command simply for not being good enough. Today, as one American colonel said bitterly during the Iraq War, “As matters stand now, a private who loses a rifle suffers far greater consequences than a general who loses a war.”

    I know it’s a pet obsession of mine, but it seems fair to say that the Big Standing Army model has something to do with that. Seems to me that that sort of huge army when it’s kept on a permanent not-quite-war-not-quite-peace setting instead of being demobilized and sent home ends up becoming more of a political institution than a military tool, at least at the top levels.

  181. 181
  182. 182
    raven says:

    @dance around in your bones: FTA was the “Kilroy was Here” of Vietnam. We had it painted on our vehicles.

  183. 183
    raven says:

    @dance around in your bones: Hanoi Jane’s USO shows were called the FTA Tour.

  184. 184
    Yutsano says:

    I don’t bake, as I’ve said here before. But I’m almost brave enough to try this.

  185. 185
    raven says:

    @Yutsano: The link is dead but are you in the right thread?

  186. 186
    Yutsano says:

    @raven: Nyet. I deleted it.

  187. 187
    raven says:

    @Yutsano: I see dat.

  188. 188
    dance around in your bones says:

    @raven: I hate the term Hanoi Jane.

    But still, I remember seeing so many soldiers with peace symbols and anti-war slogans on their helmets (on the TV machine – I was a teenage girl at the time) so Fuck The Army fits right in there. I mean, so many guys were there against their will, and long after the war had been proved wrong and stupid.

    I’m not gonna give you the tired phrase ‘thank you for your service’ but I admire you for just getting through that shit and coming home.

  189. 189
    raven says:

    @dance around in your bones: It’s snark. She got set up by the Vietnamese by sitting on that AA gun and it’s cost her dearly. She all jesusy and shit now so who knows. I respected the shit out of her for laying it on the line the way she did.

  190. 190
    dance around in your bones says:


    Yeah, I know it’s snark, but it still pisses me off because she got so creamed by the pro-war contingent for sitting on that gun. Her heart
    was in the right place, she just got used.

    I don’t know about now – she’s a Jesus freak? I haven’t kept up on Jane Fonda. hoocodanode?

  191. 191
    Hill Dweller says:

    @Ben Franklin: Who is the Republican leading on civil rights?

  192. 192
    I am not a kook says:

    @raven: When you’re getting your colonoscopy done, ask them to set up the monitor so you can see too. When else are going to be able to look up your own ass?

  193. 193
    clayton says:

    I have a bleg that I don’t want to put in the food thread . . . I have a friend whose sister is using her cats to make his life miserable. The sister actually called the friend at work today asking if he could leave work to come clean out the cat litter.

    This cat litter thing is out of control. The sister isn’t supposed to be lifting anything or doing the litter box, so she thinks it needs to be cleaned several times a day — which involves tons of litter, liners and wrapping the poop in multiple layers of foil.

    I want to help my friend and have looked and shop, but I think this litter box obsession is just that and might just push my friend over the edge. Which might just be the point from the sister’s point of view.

  194. 194
    raven says:

    @I am not a kook: I got to look in my bladder when they jammed that scope up my pecker. Pretty cool actually. In have no intention of being conscious when they head south.

  195. 195
    raven says:

    @clayton: Is there a question in there?

  196. 196
    Mnemosyne says:


    The sister isn’t supposed to be lifting anything or doing the litter box, so she thinks it needs to be cleaned several times a day — which involves tons of litter, liners and wrapping the poop in multiple layers of foil.

    Does your friend’s sister have OCD? Because that’s seriously weird.

    I know that Werebear uses the Litter Robot box with her cats and they love it — would he be willing to spend that kind of money just to keep his sister happy? Or, I guess more to the point, would his OCD sister accept that as being “clean enough”?

  197. 197
    clayton says:

    @raven: I thought it was obvious. Perhaps not to you.

    The request was help.

    You know, when people are not so self centered.

  198. 198
    dance around in your bones says:


    That kind of sounds like some weird obsession on her part. Could you suggest she get one of those automatic litter box cleaner things? It sort of senses when a cat has been ‘in the box’ and automatically scrapes it into a container.

    I had a friend who had one of those, and the cats would entertain themselves by walking past the sensor and making the scraper go off.

  199. 199
    Valdivia says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    this is probably way to late as an answer (the rum knocked me out!) but you made me crack the biggest grin. I will consider the mallet if things don’t improve by tomorrow ;)

    It was stupid but not too embarrassing–had friends over on Saturday and because it had been a long day I took my shoes off, a friend came over to say goodbye and I guess we both put our feet forward at the same time so his steel toed shoes kicked my big toe and off went the nail. If it hadn’t been for all the cocktails I had drunk by then I think I would have passed out from the gushing of blood and the pain. Needless to say my friend feel terrible, I think he will never recover from the guilt!

    @Baud: ok that totally made my week. Thanks!

  200. 200
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Valdivia: Ow.

  201. 201
    raven says:

    @clayton: Oh well excuse me.

  202. 202
    clayton says:

    @Mnemosyne: Thanks for replying — I had been looking and the reviews of products on websites — I just don’t trust them. Money is not an issue since she goes through “products” like there is no tomorrow — and that is not an exaggeration. She thinks the stores in the 3rd largest city in the U.S.A. will run out of stuff.

    My friend’s sister has serious fuck-with-you however she can disease. Today I suggested that she is too disable to care for cats and we should put up a pet adoption bleg up here on BJ.

  203. 203
    Valdivia says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    yeah it wasn’t fun at all and the rest of the week including the surgery and the changing of the dressing today truly painful and if I can say it without grossing people out: totally icky.

  204. 204
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Valdivia: So no sandals for a while?

  205. 205
    Mnemosyne says:


    I trust Werebear and she recommends that specific product. Apparently there is sometimes a water conditioner thingy that needs to be installed that she wrote about on her blog.

    The downside to getting it would be that your friend’s sister would find some other way to fuck with him, so it wouldn’t solve the actual problem.

  206. 206
    Valdivia says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    trying not to pout but yeah I guess not and summer just around the corner. I love me some strappy sandals too. sigh.

  207. 207
    clayton says:

    @raven: Don’t get your feelers hurt. Buck up big guy.

  208. 208
    the Conster says:

    So no sandals pedicures for a while until next year?

    sad face

  209. 209
    Valdivia says:

    @the Conster:

    OMG! really no pedis? at all? please tell me this isn’t my future

  210. 210
    Anna in PDX says:

    @FlipYrWhig: I love Ted Rall’s politics but I just wish he could draw for shit.

  211. 211
    raven says:

    @clayton: I’m fine, I just didn’t understand what you were getting at. I never heard of “bleg” except here and it was always in the context of a specific request for assistance, financial or otherwise, with a dog or cat.

  212. 212
    clayton says:

    @Mnemosyne: That’s what I told him. For weeks all we have talked about is the goddamn litter. My friend is going to lose his mind. I will probably either order this thing — which looks better than anything I’ve seen online or just advocate that his sister can’t take care of the cats now. Either the cats need to find a new home or she does.

    Thank you for the links. They helped a lot. I’ve saved them since BJ will be down tomorrow.

    Seriously, thanks again.

  213. 213
    clayton says:

    @raven: Well, it was about the cats.

  214. 214
    danielx says:


    You won’t know a thing about it if they sedate you. They turn on the Versed and it’s lights out right the fuck now.

  215. 215
    mai naem says:

    @dance around in your bones: I went to India about a decade ago. I wrote a diary which was full of I want to go home, I want to go home. When we landed at midnight in Delhi, we went to the car in the airport parking lot and there was a cow sleeping next to the car. We went to Agra for the Taj Mahal, we were looking out the hotel window in the morning and there was a guy who was going his morning rituals and was cleaning his butt with a cabbage leaf after pooping. There were no plastic bags anywhere for trash. There was trash everywhere. The only place we saw trash receptacles were at the airport. I know I sound like the Ugly American but I’ve traveled to third world countries and India was awful even in comparison. BTW, we were there when Bill Clinton was there, following most of his route a day or two later, and the joke with everybody was “we wish Clinton would come every year because the government would fix roads and clean stuff up every year.” Apparently we saw India in pretty good shape.

  216. 216
    raven says:

    @danielx: It will be the second buzz I’ve had in 20 years.

  217. 217
    lojasmo says:

    @I am not a kook:

    LOL. When I had my endoscopy, I requested no midazolam.

    They did not respect my wishes.

  218. 218
    Mnemosyne says:


    Jambu sandals. Cute, comfy, and many toe-covering designs.

  219. 219
    mai naem says:

    @Valdivia: Saw your reply today. I’m glad you’re ok. I wouldn’t do pedis period(not impressed by cleanliness at salons) but especially in the next few months. I’ve forgotten exactly how long, but skin takes something like 6-9 mos to completely heal from a wound.

  220. 220
    Valdivia says:


    thank you! that right there might be a summer saver right there :)

    @mai naem:
    Thanks for inquiring about how I was doing. but now I have a bigger pout re the pedis! The doc did say no pool for me for at least two weeks so I figured I would have to wait at least that long for a pedi, now I am going to be despondent.

  221. 221
    danielx says:


    Don’t be disappointed, you’re not awake long enough to enjoy it. Last time I had the procedure done they said “okay, we’re going to start the Demerol now” and I was all cool, let’s do it! About a minute later they said “okay, now we’re starting the Versed, please count to ten for us.” I got to three and that was it, good night Irene.

    Word: make sure that you have somebody around you absolutely trust when you come out of it, because you’re likely to say anything to anybody, like thinking it’s your ex-girlfriend from twenty years ago, or telling the nurse she’s really hot, or something along those lines. Also you won’t remember diddley-shit about what the doc/nurses tell you afterwards, so it’s good to have somebody around for that.*

    *Edit: especially if it’s something you don’t want to hear.

  222. 222
    raven says:

    @danielx: When my wife picked me up on the last one she said I was hilarious. Something about looking up the asshole of the asshole!

  223. 223
    Valdivia says:


    good luck with the procedure. I totally wouldn’t want to look either :)

  224. 224
    Suffern ACE says:

    @clayton: how old is this sister and how long has she had cats. I’m missing a detail. This seems like a human problem. The auto cleaner is a solution. I’m just curious why an adult would think that cleaning the litter couldn’t wait until after work. Does she think only people without jobs have cats?

  225. 225
    Chris says:

    @mai naem:

    Trash everywhere is a fairly common feature of the third world if my memory serves. Saw it in Egypt, in Morocco and in the Palestinian territories.

    Trash collection in the shittiest neighborhoods of New York is still a Mafia service, I believe. It’s one of those things no one raised in middle class suburbia like I was would even think of until it’s not there anymore.

  226. 226
    raven says:

    @Valdivia: Thanks, it’s going to be a couple of weeks. After the kind of injuries and surgery I’ve had I’m not sweating this much. It’s a hell of a lot better than colon cancer treatment.

  227. 227
    the Conster says:


    You can get a demi pedi – one foot. You don’t want that open nail bed within 10 feet of one of those pedi foot baths.

  228. 228
    dance around in your bones says:

    @mai naem:

    Like I said, just flying into India can be rather freaky. The first time I went there was after traveling overland from Amsterdam on the “supposed to be” Orient Express which got cancelled because of a cholera epidemic in Turkey (we went anyway here to there trains) and I still remember (ok, this is kind of TMI) pooping into a plastic bag and hanging it out the hotel window because there were weird guys hanging around the bathroom down the hall.

    The point is, traveling overland helped ease me into the various cultures so India didn’t upset me too much. Plus, I had spent the whole winter stuck in Afghanistan because of various reasons (don’t ask) and getting into India just didn’t seem too different except for being so gawdamn hot and having to take showers 20 times a day and laying under the fan until I cooled down. I also lost, I think, 25 lbs? in the first week from drinking the 2 paisa ‘ice cold water’ from the little trucks on every corner.

    I guess everybody has a different experience when they go, but I went back many times in subsequent years and had great experiences. You just gotta go with the flow, I guess.

    eta: I had a friend in AFG who went to Egypt and said “it’s so dirty there!” hahahahhaaha

  229. 229
    West of the Rockies says:

    @Valdivia: Okay, at the risk of going all Dick Morris-ish here, can I just give a thumbs up to women who take care of their feet? Can I go further and say that sparkly purple and bubblegum pink are pretty cool?

  230. 230
    raven says:

    @Chris: I fish in a place on the Sea of Cortez and it is incredibly beautiful. Blue water, incredible mountains and beaches and huge fucking pits of garbage every mile or so on the beach roads.

  231. 231
    clayton says:

    @Suffern ACE: Sister is in her early 60’s. She prods her mom, who is in her 80’s to call.

    I guess I’m just looking for a way to make his life better and who better to ask than you guys.

  232. 232
    I am not a kook says:

    @raven: They did mine without general anaesthesia.

    I was a little afraid I might become a Republican looking so deep inside my own colon though.

  233. 233
  234. 234
    Valdivia says:

    @the Conster:

    I think that is a solution. I can also have them just cut and paint the other nails in my left foot right, just not dunk it at all?

    @West of the Rockies:
    ha ha! It would have never occurred to me to think of Morris :)
    and credit to you as a man who appreciates a good pedi, I love all sorts of colors, though usually I am a red kind of girl

  235. 235
    Yutsano says:

    @Valdivia: I look at it as your opportunity to go all kinds of wild with colour and pizazz. My mom gets pedis regularly (nails on hands get broken on the ranch so she keeps them short) and she’s done things I’d never imagine on her.

  236. 236
    Valdivia says:


    My mom goes crazy with the blues and greens and grays. I am just very into reds and have some colors that I just love to wear. My favorite is a Colombian red I found in Costa Rica called Sangre de Toro :)

  237. 237
    MikeJ says:

    Game abandoned?

    ETA: Game on!

  238. 238
    Yutsano says:

    @Valdivia: Blood of the bull? AWESOME!! I bet it’s stunning! Sounds like an interesting kitchen colour. Sigh. House purchase will have to wait until I’m an 8 or a 9 however. I’m thinking 2-3 years though.

  239. 239
    danielx says:

    Punxsutawney Phil: I’m a rodent, not a meteorologist.

    Me: Clearly. Good thing too, you little asshole, because we’re getting 6-9 inches of snow on Sunday and the first day of spring was two days ago.

  240. 240
    Mnemosyne says:


    Also you won’t remember diddley-shit about what the doc/nurses tell you afterwards, so it’s good to have somebody around for that.

    Heh. After my knee surgery, the doctor called me with some aftercare instructions. One of the first things he said was, “We talked after surgery — do you remember that?” I said no, and he said, “Yeah, I didn’t think so.”

    No idea what I did say because they didn’t let G come in. I did get to discover that I’m one of the people who gets nauseous from general anesthesia. Unfortunately, the physical therapist who was trying to help me walk on crutches found it out a little more closely than I did, shall we say. I was very embarrassed, but she was nice about it. I doubt I was the only recovering-from-anesthesia patient who had ever puked on her.

  241. 241
    Valdivia says:


    it would make a very dramatic kitchen! :D

    I promise to keep a bit of it in a bottle to send you in a swatch so you can replicate it when house buying time comes. Also if you need an architect with full interior design capabilities my man is at your service :)

  242. 242
    the Conster says:


    Sure, but make sure they’re super duper careful. The place I go is all Vietnamese and they’re so solicitous if you just let them know what not to do.

  243. 243
    dance around in your bones says:


    I remember reading some Dianetics? Scientology? related book that said you have to be really careful about what doctors/dentists etc say to you while under the influence of anesthesia. Like ” You’re really confused right now” could keep you really confused for years. No idea if it has any validity.

    I had a tubal ligation many years ago, and I remember this stunningly beautiful young woman who came in to have one at the same time. After the surgeries, I was puking like a drunken sailor, and when the woman’s husband brought their kids in to check on her she just groaned and said ‘Take them away”. And puked and puked and puked.

    I had to crawl to a van that my husband had furnished with a mattress in the back and slept all the way home. Those are some powerful drugs.

  244. 244
    Steeplejack says:

    @I am not a kook:

    “If you gaze into the colon the colon gazes into you.” — Nietzsche

  245. 245
    raven says:

    @dance around in your bones: Did you see “The Master”?

  246. 246
    Valdivia says:

    @the Conster:

    yes where I go they are all from vietnam too. They have been doing my mom’s nails for a long time now and she has issues because of the effect chemo had on her nails and they are super careful. My mom has her own set of tools too which she brings along with her.

  247. 247
    raven says:

    @Valdivia: Choi Duk!

  248. 248
    Yutsano says:

    @Valdivia: If I get my way the kitchen will be the largest room in the house. Although even at an 8 salary I’ll have to make some compromises. I will be an 8 step 2 come September (although they’ve already screwed me out of one QSI they will NOT deny me this time around!) and that’s getting to decent money. With night differential I’ll be just under $50K a year. It won’t be a huge house (but I don’t want it to be) but it will have a big kitchen.

  249. 249
    dance around in your bones says:

    @raven: No, I haven’t – but I’ll look around on Netflix.

    That’s basically the only way I see movies except on cable.

  250. 250
    the Conster says:


    Do you know why so many nail salons are Vietnamese? Tippi Hedren. Thanks, Tippi!

  251. 251
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @dance around in your bones: Hitchcock’s Suspicion just started on my public TV station.

  252. 252
    dance around in your bones says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Mine is showing Tavis Smiley and Washington Week in Review.

    No, gracias.

    I just started watching Bel Ami on Showtime. Any good? It has Uma Thurman, and one of the first scenes had the beast with two backs going at it pretty vigorously. Since I am typing I didn’t pay too much attention.

    Ok, based on the info, I imagine there will be a lot of beast with two backs action. Sheesh.

    eta: ooh! The Wiki tells it’s based on a Guy de Maupassant novel – may be more interesting than I thought.

  253. 253
    Valdivia says:

    @the Conster:

    cool story!


    I love a big kitchen.

  254. 254
    danielx says:

    I heart Charles Pierce.

    I notice that Marquette, Gonzaga, St. Louis University, and Georgetown, all Jesuit institutions, all are still alive. I also notice that the new pope is a Jesuit. Coincidence? I think not. I remind you all that you simply do not fk with The Society because The Society will fk your shit up for you, in Latin.

  255. 255
    dance around in your bones says:

    Ok, wasn’t too impressed with Bel Ami, so I switched to Nicholas and Alexandra.

    I’m sure y’all are fascinated with my TV choices.

  256. 256
    Suffern ACE says:

    @danielx: in what bracket is Georgetown still alive? I want that bracket! It has to be better than mine.

  257. 257
    The Moar You Know says:

    Everyone is guilty.

  258. 258
    Ruckus says:

    @dance around in your bones:
    At the very least they should work with people from many countries. And attempt to learn a little of the culture of the people. It can be an eye opener. If you let/want it to be. But you are right, nothing beats traveling and immersing one’s self in a new culture. It’s enlightening and fun.

  259. 259
    Ruckus says:

    @I am not a kook:

    Well he’s not a rethug so the chances are probably quite small.

  260. 260
    dance around in your bones says:

    @Ruckus: You have to open yourself to the experience.

    I remember making friends with one of the maids at a hotel I stayed at in India, and she invited me to stay with her at her home. Met all her family, went to a movie with her and her brother (which turned out to be some kind of remake of 7 Brides and 7 Brothers)and we stayed in touch for years. She would send me the silver sandals I loved from some bazaar in Delhi and cardamom seeds, and I would send her good bras from the US that weren’t the rocket tits kind that were all that was available in India (this was in the 70’s).

    That’s what I loved about that movie The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel, that there were some people who really embraced the experience, others who were resistant at first but adapted, and one crazy lady who just couldn’t adapt at all and went home to England.

    Traveling can be a very enlightening experience if you can relax and go with the flow.

  261. 261
    Ruckus says:

    @dance around in your bones:
    Traveling can be a very enlightening experience if you can relax and go with the flow.

    As can life itself.

  262. 262
    dance around in your bones says:

    @Ruckus: No shit.

    That’s me, just bobbling along on the wave of life :)

  263. 263
    Ruckus says:

    @dance around in your bones:
    I’m the guy floating just below the surface. But I do get to bob up for air every once in a while. Usually just about the time that wave you are floating on comes along and raises the level just a little more than necessary. Oh well the fish are pretty. Always look for the positive. That was one of dad’s unoriginal lines. Has taken me a few decades to understand and embrace it fully.

  264. 264
    dance around in your bones says:


    Always look on the bright side of life

    Not that I always do. Things get tough. Ya just got to keep on keepin’ on.

  265. 265
    ottercliff says:

    Please cut Peggy Noonan some slack. She is not very bright, suffers from intense, recurring sexual fantasies involving Ronald Reagan and sometimes Pope John Paul II, and is a drunk of the cheap booze variety. Have some sympathy for Christ’s sake!

  266. 266
  267. 267
    Ruckus says:

    You know that only one of those attributes is not of her own making? And others with that same attribute don’t let it cause them to bring the others out into the open. But maybe it isn’t her fault, someone has given her the visibility to show off her issues. Not everyone who is a dim bulb gets public attention.

  268. 268
  269. 269
  270. 270
    morfydd says:

    @the Conster:

    does that also explain why they’re Vietnamese in Germany too? My German isn’t yet good enough to ask in any kind of tactful way.

    @Valdivia, have you looked into a medical pedicure? my mom gets them as a diabetic and took me along once and they’re *amazing*. they won’t normally do a nail color, but otherwise your feet will be miraculously smooth and It’s much more hygienic than a standard salon.

  271. 271
    JoyfulA says:

    @efgoldman: Prep for the endoscopy is nothing, just like you suspected. I had both studies 2 weeks ago.

  272. 272
    xian says:

    @Lurking Canadian: I think you miss the point. He isn’t parodying firebaggers turning on Eizabeth Warren. He is showing how purity trolls could turn even the sainted Liz Warren into a villain using the same logic they use against Obama, etc.

  273. 273
    xian says:

    @Ben Franklin: please proceed in thinking a troll who parodies firebaggers is your ally

Trackbacks & Pingbacks

Comments are closed.