Late Night Open Thread: Cranky Old Broads

It’s the time of the evening when Cole’s liable to bigfoot this post any minute, so I’m gonna allow myself a little self-indulgence. I bitched yesterday about Ted Cruz showing off his mighty weapons, and some of the commentors felt the need to reassure me that no, sweetie, that’s just Ted Being Ted, and besides, it was all Feinstein’s fault for provoking him, and anyways, it’s not as though she was even our kind of righteous Democrat to begin with

Rachel Maddow seemed to think it was pretty sexist, though. And here is Gail Collins, discussing “The Dread That Is Ted“:

… During a meeting of the Judiciary Committee on Thursday, Senator John Cornyn of Texas tried to shore up the pro-gun side by offering nine “news stories of people defending themselves with assault weapons” for the record. The list spanned 17 years and included things like “tenant shoots intruder on porch.” If this is the best the ban opponents have to offer, Feinstein’s bill should be passed by unanimous consent.

The other argument, which does not require examples, is that the founding fathers wanted Americans in the 21st century to be able to stock up on guns that can fire 45 rounds a minute.

Enter Ted Cruz of Texas, a Tea Party darling. He’s been in office only a few months, but he’s made quite an impression. You may remember his suggestion that Chuck Hagel might have been taking money from North Korea. Or his interesting theories about a United Nations plot to exterminate American golf courses…

Later, Feinstein would tell CNN that she felt Cruz was being “somewhat arrogant,” which seemed like an understatement. Even in an age of political polarization, there apparently is still an unwritten rule against calling someone “a stupendously irritating twit” on national TV….

Do you think, people, that this is a key to the stupendous impact the Tea Party continues to have on Congress, even now that it’s proved itself to be a loser when it comes to elections? If you combine a lack of a sense of humor with an absence of humility and then stir in a cup of self-righteousness, you are definitely not working on a recipe for cooperative achievement.

You know, after many years of being on the wrong end of the argument, the average pale-skinned progressive eventually figured that when a person of color said something was racist, if the pale skin didn’t understand why their companion was saying that, the best response was just to shut up and listen. Maybe by the time of feminism’s Fourth or Fifth Wave, our Y-chromosome-gifted progressives will have figured out — no matter how much your momma let you challenge her — leaping in to mansplain to some cranky old feminist that well, Diane Feinstein shouldn’t have been wandering around on Ted’s turf if she wasn’t carrying better weapons of rhetoric is not a well-chosen form of persuasion.

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180 replies
  1. 1
    srv says:

    bigfoot this post any minute

    You know, all the old farts here are pretty oblivious of John’s heavy hands and foot.

    Me, I think we need another thread on GG

  2. 2
    nancydarling says:

    This cranky old broad agrees with you, Anne.

  3. 3
    srv says:

    Note to self: b1gfoot or fartz are in the moderation filter list.

    One of Sarah’s cranks must own that FYWP component.

  4. 4
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    It’s the time of the evening when Cole’s liable to bigfoot this post any minute,

    Now who’s bigfooting whom?

  5. 5
    Mutaman says:

    What a lot of gibberish.

  6. 6
    Suffern ACE says:

    @arguingwithsignposts: Bah. Let’s let that pass. Last night, it was the death of albums. Now it’s how we don’t like SNL. I think I’ll troll this thread instead. I need to work on my troll skills. I’m not very good at it. My Balloon Juice annual review is in two months and I’ve not made a lot of progress.

  7. 7
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    @Suffern ACE: “Plays well with others” is not good on your BJ evaluation. Troll away, good ACE.

    ETA: “We don’t like SNL” hasn’t been new since the second season. Next up will be “There aren’t any good musicals anymore.”

  8. 8
    mdblanche says:

    @Mutaman:

    What a lot of gibberish.

    Care to elaborate?

  9. 9
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Suffern ACE: Didn’t you sharpen your claws in the Greenwald wars earlier?

    On topic: That thread was kind of ugly. I do, to some extent, buy the “Cruz is an asshole to everyone” argument – maybe it just comes out as condescending sexism when he talks to women and comes out in other ways when he talks to others. The man does seem to be a piece of work. Now, I’ll shut my XY-chromosomed ass up and listen.

  10. 10
    Yutsano says:

    Ted Cruz is giving all kinds of Texas good ol’ boys woodies for talking like the right kind of Messican. Hell they can even ignore the whole murky immigration story and possible illegal status cuz he’s talkin’ like one of them and telling that ol’ San Francisco librul lady to shove it! Tribe uber alles. He will never say anything that will cost him with the teatards.

  11. 11
    Alison says:

    Yeah, I’ve seen a lot of people say, “Well, he’s an asshole, and he’d be the same way with a guy.” Now, I don’t doubt Cruz would preach his Psychotic Bastard Religion (thanks Izzard) to men as well, but…yeah, as a woman, there is definitely a difference you can sense. There’s an element of condescension, of a presumption of your less-than-ness. It’s not necessarily something you can say “He said this word or did this thing and that’s how you know”…and so people will refuse to believe it. But yeah. People who identify/present as women know when we’re dealing with a sexist, just like POC know when they’re dealing with someone who just doesn’t like the blahs.

  12. 12
    Hal says:

    Well I’m disappointed. Pediatric Neurosurgeon Ben Carson spoke at CPAC and while I knew he was deeply religious, I had no idea he was a right winger and a proponent of a flat tax rate, and a creationist. Which totally makes sense. Use science everyday in your career, but believes the earth is 5,000 years old? huh?

  13. 13
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I stayed out of the Cruz discussion precisely because I saw where that was heading. I seem to recall a couple of weeks earlier, one of the male Dem senators chewed him out in a committee meeting because of some stupid shit he said (when he was being called a new McCarthy), but I’ve slept since then. Still and all, his demeaning attitude toward Sen. Feinstein sends a different dog-whistle towards those attuned to hearing it all their lives.

    As an additional note, I will go all Rob Portman and say that some aspects of male privilege and cultural sexism have become much more apparent to me since the birth of my daughters (and my leaving a fundamentalist sect). I’m not excusing my previous ignorance, just noting it fwiw.

  14. 14

    Cruz is an arrogant moron and Feinstein is an insufferable twit. Their repartee made the whole country dumber. Every article in the bill of rights has limitations and exceptions, so the discussion should be about how best to limit the second.

  15. 15
    The Dangerman says:

    …Ted Cruz showing off his mighty weapons…

    I’m afraid to click through; I mean, that’s not like Todd Palin showing off his rifle, is it?

  16. 16
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: No. The only thing I found interesting in that thread was the poster who had an insect identification problem, but then everyone started fighting and it didn’t seem to be polite to interrupt if y’all didn’t want to help with that.

  17. 17
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    @Richard Bennett: Check out the big brain on Brett! You’re a smart motherfucker.

  18. 18
    RareSanity says:

    I have a question that has been bothering me since this story broke.

    There’s no doubt that Cruz was pompous, insulting, arrogant and condescending…but do we know that the impetus for this was Sen. Feinstein’s gender? I mean, in all honesty, I could hear him taking that exact same tone with Harry Reid, or The President, for that matter.

    I am not at all trying to state that his tone wasn’t because of Sen. Feinstein being a woman. I’m just asking if there was something specific that someone else heard, that I may not have.

  19. 19
    MattR says:

    @Alison:

    Yeah, I’ve seen a lot of people say, “Well, he’s an asshole, and he’d be the same way with a guy.” Now, I don’t doubt Cruz would preach his Psychotic Bastard Religion (thanks Izzard) to men as well, but…yeah, as a woman, there is definitely a difference you can sense.

    I would say that Cruz would be the same kind of asshole to anyone he doesn’t respect. But I also think there is sexism involved with the level of respect he gives people.

  20. 20
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Suffern ACE: I primarily just poked at Ben Franklin.

  21. 21
    SatanicPanic says:

    Cruz can be an asshole towards everyone and an even bigger asshole to women.

  22. 22
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    @SatanicPanic: This! I’ve known plenty of grade-A assholes who can kick it up a notch when it comes to the “little women.” It is especially rampant among fundamentalist christian types, because … BibleStPaulJesusAdamDisciples and shit.

  23. 23
    RareSanity says:

    Cruz can be an asshole towards everyone and an even bigger asshole to women.

    @SatanicPanic:

    I think this may be the answer to my question at #18.

  24. 24
    Yutsano says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Yeah but that’s easy. Overestimation of one’s intelligence plus condescending attitude just screams target for ridicule. The obtuseness is just gravy.

    @RareSanity: The real question (and without seeing the whole discussion I could be wrong) is that why did he keep going back to her? There were other people in the room. I think that was deliberate as well as sexist. He was playing to his nutjob base back home by attacking the mean San Francisco lib.

  25. 25
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @RareSanity:

    I am not at all trying to state that his tone wasn’t because of Sen. Feinstein being a woman. I’m just asking if there was something specific that someone else heard, that I may not have

    I think AL’s point is that there was something else in there.

  26. 26
    scav says:

    He’s well aware of that fine, recently cited Republican tradition of not being contradicted by women in public. Puts the afterburners on his 5-speed personality.

    Eta. Geography also provided some ommmph, most likely.

  27. 27
    MattR says:

    @Yutsano: Wasn’t this a committee hearing for the assault weapons ban bill that she co-sponsored?

    @Omnes Omnibus: Half your age plus seven is where to set the bar.

  28. 28
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Yutsano: I was hungover and tired. Plus contemplating the appropriateness of a relationship with a woman in her early 20s who likes older men. I wasn’t up for a challenge.

  29. 29
    Mandalay says:

    Any lawyers?

    I am struggling to understand this case, where a man was having a shoot out with the cops, and a third party unfortunately showed her face. The cops thought she was the bad guy and accidentally killed her – a tragic accident.

    But wait! There’s more!

    The man, who is in deep shit anyway, is now being additionally charged with criminal homicide over the death of the woman “based on the legal principal of transferred intent“: “[Cairns] is ultimately responsible for the deadly consequences of the chain of events which he began,” he said. ““[Cairns] is responsible for Mrs. Zienkewicz’s death on the basis of his intentional acts to harm the police.”

    So the cops killed a woman, and the man is being charged with that woman’s death.

    I’m just not understanding this at all.

  30. 30
    Cassidy says:

    Did I miss some mansplaining? Good. I just got to see a phenomenal grappling and BJJ clinic put on by George St. Pierre and drink some whisky.

    Cassidy +3 doubles

  31. 31
    Suffern ACE says:

    I supposed if I were to ask the Jr. Senator from Texas what’s wrong with feminism and how has it harmed the country we might find that he’s spent a great deal of time thinking about that issue. My guess is that he knows how to talk about how it has harmed the country a lot more fluently than he can express support for progress.

    Would the fact that he probably would talk willingly about everything liberals support in a disdainful manner make him somehow less of a sexist? Or is there somehow an asshole pass that he’d get.

  32. 32
    RareSanity says:

    @Yutsano:
    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I’m willing to accept that he ratcheted up the asshole because it was a woman. There are just too many women that I respect (present company included), saying that it is so.

    I guess I just don’t know enough about Cruz to be able to detect the higher level.

    You live and you learn…

  33. 33
    efgoldman says:

    Cruz is an asshole first class with oak leaf clusters.
    I said in the other thread (or some other thread in which he was under discussion) that he’s the Texas version of Crazy-Eyes Bachmann, except since he represents the whole state and belongs to a more exclusive club, he’s got a bigger megaphone. He’s also as much of an attention whore as Grandpa Walnuts. He’ll say anything about anyone, as long as it gets him a lead story in the Dallas and Houston papers. And he’s like our better/worse trolls – just aggravating enough that he can’t be ignored.

    [So, no thread for seven hours, then as its getting to be bedtime, two in twenty minutes. Nice.]

    ETA: And for those of us wishing that he gets the GOBP nom in 2016, he’s got as much of a chance as Goodhair Perry.

  34. 34
    Yutsano says:

    @MattR: It could have been, which is why I inserted my caveat in there. I’d Google it but I’m afeared the results will descend into hot mess territory and I won’t find the answer easily. But you could be correct. Cruz is still an asshole.

    @Omnes Omnibus: Understandable.

  35. 35
    gorram says:

    It legit boggles my mind that someone might not recognize the sexism in a newly elected male Senator asking a female Senator who’s been in politics longer than I’ve been alive (and I’ve voted in three national elections) whether she understands that congress can’t pass unconstitutional laws.

    I’m guy, so I’m going to defer to any women in the thread to explain why a guy would get that obnoxious towards a woman the way Cruz did towards Feinstein. I mean, yeah, sexism, but good lord, I can’t fathom the logic behind believing that a Senator would work to pass legislation she believes to be unconstitutional. I think Cruz referred to her as having passion, but I didn’t see much more to indicate an “oh those hyper-emotional ladies” stance, but I’m curious if anyone noticed something I missed.

  36. 36
    amk says:

    lil prick cruz can’t handle women. As simple as that.

  37. 37
    MattR says:

    @Mandalay: IANAL, but felony murder is based on the same concept. The basic idea is that if you break the law then you are responsible not just for that action but for any unplanned consequences of it.

    @Yutsano: I am equally unsure of the answer and as afraid to Google to find out.

  38. 38
    SatanicPanic says:

    @RareSanity: It just makes sense to me. All the assholes I have met have been MORE assholeish when they’re dealing with women. It just goes with the territory.

  39. 39
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Mandalay: Basically, the idea is that, but for the actions of the defendant, the person would not have been killed. The Wikipedia article is pretty decent on the topic. This does seem to be stretching the standard interpretation a bit.

    @MattR: Felony murder makes more sense in this context than transferred intent.

  40. 40
    joel hanes says:

    So the cops killed a woman, and the man is being charged with that woman’s death.

    “NOW look what you made me do!” — the claim of someone too immature or dishonest to own their actions.

  41. 41
    efgoldman says:

    @gorram:

    but good lord, I can’t fathom the logic behind believing that a Senator would work to pass legislation she believes to be unconstitutional.

    The same way that TeaHadi state legislatures all over the country are doing it. He is one of them, after all.

  42. 42
    MattR says:

    @SatanicPanic: The question is do they do it because they think less of women or because they think they can get away with it with women. Or is that a distinction without a difference?

  43. 43
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @MattR:

    Half your age plus seven is where to set the bar.

    That does not give me the answer I want.

  44. 44
    Cassidy says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Give it a whirl.

  45. 45
    SatanicPanic says:

    @MattR: I’m going with distinction without a difference- if you respect people you don’t want to be an asshole towards them.

    OT- is it too early in the year to be drinking John Dalys? Because they are tasting very good to me right now. +3

  46. 46
    mdblanche says:

    @Mutaman: @mdblanche: That’s a no, then?

  47. 47
    MattR says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Did I say plus seven? I meant minus.

    Or if need be, did I say half your age? I meant a quarter.

    If you’re still on the wrong side of the bar, then I just have to say DAMN!!! I’m impressed. Go live the dream. Just don’t forget to take your heart medication first.

  48. 48
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Cassidy: There we go.

    @SatanicPanic:

    OT- is it too early in the year to be drinking John Dalys? Because they are tasting very good to me right now. +3

    No.

  49. 49
    patroclus says:

    In his opposition to Chuck Hagel’s nomination, Cruz basically insinuated that Hagel was a traitor who deliberately took money from countries that are more or less enemies of the U.S. In his baiting of Senator Feinstein, Cruz took the position that she was basically an imbecile who was deliberately trying to force obviously unconstitutional legislation down the throats of law-abiding Americans. Both examples were, by definition, extremely insulting and McCarthyistic, to boot.

    Was he condescending and sexist as well? I suppose that’s debateable – I’d lean towards yes, but there were so many other things wrong with his approach that one could just as easily say no deliberate sexism and still conclude that he’s an asshole who has no business being a U.S. Senator.

  50. 50
    Cassidy says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Bear in mind i’m +3 doubles an d had to stop from saying “test drive”. My judgement could be suspect at the moment.

  51. 51
    The Dangerman says:

    @MattR:

    Just don’t forget to take your heart medication first.

    Don’t do the Nelson Rockefeller.

  52. 52
    Joel (Macho Man Randy Savage) says:

    @arguingwithsignposts: Not since the “Threepenny Opera” at least.

  53. 53
    Mandalay says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Basically, the idea is that, but for the actions of the defendant, the person would not have been killed.

    Hmmm….doesn’t that effectively give the police a license to kill? Can’t they can fire away in any situation, and if an innocent bystander gets shot the D.A. can just invoke the “transferred intent” principal, and charge the perp with whatever havoc is wrought by the cops?

  54. 54
    Radio One says:

    @RareSanity: I thought Cruz targeted her not because she was a woman, but because he thought it would invoke an angry response from her because she was a victim of the Moscone/Milk murders in San Francisco. Yes, I really think he’s that vile.

  55. 55
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Cassidy: I’ll just pretend I didn’t read that.

    @The Dangerman: I have a resting heart rate in the low 50s; I should be okay.

    @Mandalay: That is why I said this situation was stretching the rule. Felony murder is the better theory for the prosecution to use. The felony murder concept is basically that, if you commit a felony and someone dies in the course of it, you have committed murder.

  56. 56
    burnspbesq says:

    @Mandalay:

    Yup. Transferred intent has been part of crim law for a very long time, and this is an utterly plain vanilla application. If you threaten someone with deadly force, and they justifiably respond with deadly force, you, the instigator, are held responsible for the collateral damage. You’re held responsible for the reasonably foreseeable consequences of your actions.

    Put another way, you intended to kill, and somebody ended up dead, so it’s on you, even if the dead person is not the specific person you intended to kill.

    If I ever knew the theoretical justification for this, I forgot it within five minutes after the bar exam.

  57. 57
    Yutsano says:

    @Radio One: There is no evidence anywhere that Cruz is that smart. That vindictive yes, but not that smart.

  58. 58
    Cassidy says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: That’s cool.

  59. 59
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @burnspbesq: I think that fact that it was not the direct action of the defendant that caused the death makes transferred intent a bit of a stretch.

  60. 60
    MattR says:

    @Mandalay: I’m guessing there is a reasonable/responsible clause in there to protect against what you are worried about.

    BTW – stories like this are what pop into my head when I hear people talking about giving guns to teachers or that things in Aurora would have been better had more moviegoers been packing.

  61. 61
    Mandalay says:

    So here’s yet another run of the mill story about Republican double standards:

    A combative Republican state assemblyman who voted against legalizing medical marijuana in 2011 was busted for pot possession yesterday, State Police announced today.

    What makes the story a little more interesting is that the New York Post decided to dig up every piece of shit they could find about this asshole. This turd was pretty good:

    The paper has also reported that Katz was charged with “scattering rubbish” in July 1992 when, he said, he was trying to transport a client’s dead German shepherd and had to momentarily set the dog on an outdoor trash container.

    “momentarily”??? WTF? If you made this stuff up nobody would believe it.

  62. 62
    SatanicPanic says:

    So I saw my grandpa today. He’s 92 now and still in good shape. Very mentally sharp. I think I’m the only one of my cousins who ever visits him and he gave me a car for my birthday (which was a few days ago) telling me happy birthday and how happy he is to see me. It was pretty touching.

  63. 63
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Mandalay: Yeah, but he was only charged. It would appear that the “No, honest, I wasn’t trying to ditch that dead dog in someone’s dumpster” defense works. I mean, how do you know he wasn’t going to pick that dog up later.

  64. 64
    CT Voter says:

    Thanks for this, Anne, and Happy St. Patrick’s.

  65. 65
    JWL says:

    “No, sweetie”?

    If that’s all you heard, best take a Q-Tip to your ears.

    I disagreed with your take, and commented to that effect. But I did not condescend in doing so.

  66. 66
    Mandalay says:

    @burnspbesq:

    You’re held responsible for the reasonably foreseeable consequences of your actions.

    Even if the police acted recklessly or irresponsibly? The DA has already ruled against that, yet in this case the cop(s) mistook an 89 year old woman for a 49 year old man.

    Taking it a step further, even if the cops were found to be negligent, could the “bad guy” still be charged with criminal homicide, on the basis that the cops completely fucking things up was “reasonably foreseeable”?

  67. 67
    srv says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: As long as she’s sober, it’s legal.

  68. 68
    Suffern ACE says:

    O.K. I have a late night confession. I ordered a pizza tonight and I didn’t have enough cash to give more than a 34 cent tip. I had taken the change coffee can to the bank this morning and lo and behold, I needed it. I didn’t even offer an explanation to the guy.

    Now that that’s off my chest, I can get down to trolling.

  69. 69
    Suzanne says:

    I missed the original thread (it sounds…pleasant), but I really don’t know why anyone you think that Ted Cruz ISN’T sexist. I mean, we live in a big fucking patriarchy. It would be more notable if he wasn’t sexist. Secondly, the term MANSPLAINING was developed for a reason.

    I’ve known so many douchebags like this. They’ll tell you that they love women, and they do. But they’re convinced of their own brilliance/rightness, and are used to dominating discourse and conversation. They take advantage of the sexist modes of our conversation, and when women object to being dominated or interrupted, the women look like mouthy bitches. Even if he didn’t intend to be sexist, Cruz was operating in a sphere that is patriarchal, tilted in his favor, and he used that face to his rhetorical advantage.

    Good on DiFi for refusing to take that bullshit.

  70. 70
    Alison says:

    @Suzanne: Word, this, and other terms of agreement.

  71. 71
    Mandalay says:

    @MattR:

    stories like this are what pop into my head when I hear people talking about giving guns to teachers

    Me too. I posted about this the other day:

    A police officer who accidentally fired a shot in an upstate New York high school hallway has resigned after investigators found he used poor judgment.

    The Lloyd Police Department tells local media outlets Friday that Sean McCutcheon was alone in the hall when he managed to fire a round into the floor at Highland High School while taking his Glock pistol out of its holster on March 5.

    So much for arming the good guys in our schools to make them safe.

  72. 72
    srv says:

    @Suffern ACE: Only on BJ could someone make Papa John look like a Saint.

  73. 73
    MattR says:

    @srv: If there’s grass on the field, play ball.

  74. 74
    Suzanne says:

    Just an aside, the fact that any dude ever would feel free to say that something isn’t sexist, especially in the presence of women who have stated the opposite view, is absolute proof that our modes of discourse are still quite patriarchal. I mean, a dude commenting on sexism is about as uninformative/inappropriate as me commenting about whether or not some boxer shorts chafed one’s balls to an excessive degree.

  75. 75
    Hill Dweller says:

    FWIW, the first race(Australian Grand Prix) of the 2013 Formula 1 season is about to start in 5 minutes. It’s airing on NBCSports channel.

  76. 76
    Hattie says:

    @SatanicPanic: Sure. They figure they won’t get punched in the face.

  77. 77
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @MattR: I know I kicked this off, but, really?

  78. 78
    Suffern ACE says:

    @srv: I could have given the young man the coffee can and told him that if he kept putting his change in there each night, at the end of the year, he might have $130. My 34 cents was seed money. Teach a man to fish…

  79. 79
    srv says:

    @Hill Dweller: Do clocks run clockwise or counter-clockwise there?

  80. 80
    Yutsano says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I really shouldn’t comment being interested in an individual 13 years my junior, but that is a bit extreme. Consent laws do exist for a reason. Having said that, early 20s is definitely good for a fling if nothing else. Unless you work with her.

  81. 81
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @srv: Don’t worry about the clocks, it is the giant radioactive, extinct frogs and the French commandos hunting them that should bother you.

  82. 82
    mai naem says:

    @Yutsano: He’s not Mexican. He’s Cuban. I only saw the clip everybody played during the hearing. I did want to see what happened before the clip. There was something more than just the comments before Feinstein went off on him. She kind of reminded me of how Hillary treated Ron Johnston during the Benghazi hearing. They both looked like errant schoolchildren being told off by their mothers.
    Also, I don’t think Cruz knew Feinstein’s background. He’s too young. You’re talking about 30+ years ago and he’s ignorant enough to not know it.

  83. 83
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Unless there are other issues here, an April-August relationship might not be a bad thing for you. You’re worried about the consequences of the relationship? Why not try dating her for awhile and worry about that later. It’s not like you’ve lied about your age. it might be fun for you to spend the spring being charming outside the house.

    My two cents.

  84. 84
    Alison says:

    @MattR: Um, that;s fucking disgusting and not funny.

  85. 85
    Ruckus says:

    @Suzanne:
    I don’t think they love women. They may love what they can get from women. But they don’t love women. They are too self centered. They may love a woman, but not the gender. I’ve seen/heard too many of my gender act like douchebags not to recognize them any more.

  86. 86
    scav says:

    OK, this one’s bizarre. Guy goes to a gun store, asks to see shotgun and ammo. Once he has them, he then pulls a handgun out and forces clerk to unlock it. Barricades himself in a bathroom (alone) and eventually kills himself. The plotting’s a little baroque for my brain tonight. I’m not making it up, I’m alas +0)

  87. 87
    srv says:

    @Suffern ACE: If he hasn’t made enough progress by the next time, remind him that Schnatter started Papa Johns with money from selling his car.

    Set his mind free.

  88. 88
    Suzanne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Plus contemplating the appropriateness of a relationship with a woman in her early 20s who likes older men.

    Just enjoy it, don’t act like her dad and boss her around, and have a good time.

  89. 89
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Yutsano: Don’t work with her. No chance of long-term – European student on a visa who leaves in May. More than 25 year age difference. Her main problem with me: my hair isn’t gray enough.

  90. 90
    MattR says:

    @Suzanne:

    don’t act like her dad and boss her around

    Unless that’s why she likes older men.

  91. 91
    Unsympathetic says:

    Don’t forget that Sean Hannity yesterday berated a woman who had the temerity to suggest that rape is wrong.. to be specific, she said “fewer women would be raped if fewer men raped women.”

    This blatant disrespect of women isn’t just Cruz, it defines the Republican party.

  92. 92
    SatanicPanic says:

    @scav: If he already had a gun, why didn’t he just do that at home?

    +4 John Dalys because Omnes said I could

  93. 93
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @SatanicPanic: Jesus. Why the hell would you listen to me on this? I am a bad influence; my s-i-l’s dad told me that.

  94. 94
    srv says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: It will be by May.

    ed. Otherwise there’s a Grecian Formula for that.

  95. 95
    Suzanne says:

    @Ruckus:

    I don’t think they love women. They may love what they can get from women. But they don’t love women. They are too self centered. They may love a woman, but not the gender.

    That is what I meant. There are most likely some women that they love. But “love” and “hate” used in this sense aren’t quite the precise words I want them to be. I love my children, but my love for them is not a recognition of their autonomy at this point in time, whereas my love for my husband (and his for me) involves the recognition of his full autonomy and worth. I have a sense that most dudes who treat women like Cruz does do indeed love women, but more in the way that one loves a precious object, and not in the way that they love or respect other men (not talking about sexual love, obviously).

  96. 96
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I was gonna have a quiet night of Bible study before you started egging me on

  97. 97
    MattR says:

    @SatanicPanic: The linked article didn’t specify but I’d guess his handgun was unloaded and he used it to bluff at the store to get the shotgun and ammo which he then used to kill himself. At least he had the decency to go into the bathroom to do that.

    Made me think of this guy

  98. 98
    Suzanne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Good Lord. Just do it.

  99. 99
    srv says:

    @SatanicPanic: Better yet, a Wall St. Boardroom?

  100. 100
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Suzanne: There are, sadly, a number of men who cannot see women as fully functional beings in their own right. These men are best categorized as douchebags.

    @Suzanne: Okay, but if I don’t live, I am blaming you.

  101. 101
    Yutsano says:

    @mai naem:

    He’s not Mexican. He’s Cuban

    To them good ol’ Boys they’re all the same. I know the details of Ted’s particular start in life. But I doubt the ones who voted for him in Texas know or care.

    @Omnes Omnibus: YOU DO REALISE THIS IS A WORKABLE ISSUE AMIRITE? Jeebus just have a great time with her and enjoy yourself and her. And hey maybe she’ll give you a good excuse to go back to the Continent. That can’t suck right?

  102. 102
    MattR says:

    @Yutsano: I’m beginning to realize that it was really just a humble brag. Poor, poor Omnes :)

  103. 103
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @MattR: I would never.

  104. 104
    Anoniminous says:

    @burnspbesq:

    I think it falls under the ancient legal principle quia ego sic dico.

  105. 105
    Yutsano says:

    @Suzanne:

    Good Lord. Just do it her

    Fixteth. :)

    @MattR: Even though he’s a Leo, OO isn’t the sort.

  106. 106
    Suzanne says:

    @MattR: LOL. Totally. “I have a young, hot European exchange student who wants to bang me. WHAT EVER SHALL I DO?!?!”

    GOD.

    The fact that this is even a question in his mind is totally foreign to me.

  107. 107
    SatanicPanic says:

    @MattR: He might die in the throes of passion with a young European exchange student! This is no laughing matter!

  108. 108
    scav says:

    @MattR: How difficult is it to buy ammo? I was rather wondering if he was trying to force himself into a position where there was no other option, but the detail of specifically stealing a gun just warps my pea-brain. Could have got the cops coming with a big gulp.

    To warp it in another way, seriously, check out this photo of A CPAC attendee, with the Association of Mature Americans. Some of the other photos are interesting (I have seen far more crowded conferences) but this one with caption is for the ages.

  109. 109
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Yutsano: One has had qualms. One is generally strong enough to overcome them.

    @Suzanne: Easily old enough to be her dad is weird. Okay?

  110. 110
    Suzanne says:

    @scav: That is hilariously and fabulously crazy-balls.

  111. 111

    @Radio One: DiFi had to stick her finger in Harvey Milk’s bullet wounds in an effort to find a pulse, so I think she can handle a tiny-dicked pissant like Teddy-boy Cruz.

  112. 112
    Ruckus says:

    @Suzanne:
    Sounds like we are saying the same thing. Guys like this don’t see women as equals or anything approaching it. It’s not how they are wired. They see anyone not like themselves in whatever way you can imagine as an inferior something. It’s not a color thing or a religious thing, it is a gender thing. They have been raised and/or convinced themselves that women are inferior. Full Stop. And like every other form of bigotry they will not be convinced that they are wrong. They have to convince themselves.

  113. 113
    SatanicPanic says:

    @scav: This is my thought- he was so broke he couldn’t buy ammo?

    Oh, and that photo is gonna give me nightmares.

  114. 114
    Suzanne says:

    @SatanicPanic: This reminds me of the time recently when Cole was saying he got hit on at a bar by a woman who was in her early twenties, IIRC, and he made some statement like, “I have no idea what I’d do with a 22-year-old in my life,” or some shit.

    Is there some age at which dudes lose their sense of carpe diem? Sad.

  115. 115
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Suzanne: apparently what he wants to do is harass Ben Franklin all afternoon.

    Although I’d rather he’d be a gentleman and show the young lady a good time…show her parts of Wisconsin that she’ll remember fondly when she returns home as a grand ambassador of sorts…rather than just jumping in the sack, I’m not quite getting why he’d allow GG to troll his way into their time together.

  116. 116
    James E. Powell says:

    @Mandalay:

    on the basis that the cops completely fucking things up was “reasonably foreseeable”?

    The issue is causation and the question is whether the police officers’ negligence was a superseding cause. It isn’t because the negligence of others is always forseeable.

  117. 117
    MattR says:

    @Suzanne:

    Is there some age at which dudes lose their sense of carpe diem? Sad.

    God, I hope not. If there is, sign me up for death by European exchange student right before that happens.

  118. 118
    Anoniminous says:

    @Suzanne:

    Somebody, damned if I can remember who, defined love as “an emotional involvement with someone wherein you wish only the highest and best for that person.” One reason I like that definition is it can be suitable modified by age group. The “highest and best” for a seven year old is vastly different than for a thirty seven year old.

  119. 119
    Suzanne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Easily old enough to be her dad is weird. Okay?

    Um, why?

  120. 120
    Yutsano says:

    @MattR: You have a puppeh. She’s an automatic chick magnet. I think you’ll do just fine although we can get you to Princeton should it become necessary.

    @Suzanne: I have enough of a complex about the NYD. This conversation is NOT helping!

  121. 121
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Yutsano:

    And hey maybe she’ll give you a good excuse to go back to the Continent. That can’t suck right?

    It’s Romania again.

    @Suzanne: I like you.

  122. 122
    Ruckus says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Try the perspective of being old enough to be her grandfather.

    Still, you have to remember you are both adults, abet one of you may have more experience.

  123. 123
    SatanicPanic says:

    @Suzanne: I’ve been married for 10 or so years- I have no idea why a single person would hand-wring. The only reason I ever turned anyone down was because I really wasn’t interested.

    As far as knowing what to do- I always thought it was like riding a bicycle. Would you really forget how to do it?

  124. 124
    Suzanne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I like you, too. And when I was in my early twenties, I liked older men, too. I mean, had I been dating men my own age, I would have had fratty Young Republican douchebags, self-impressed hipster art students, or sexually inexperienced nerds to choose from. No thank you,

  125. 125
    scav says:

    @SatanicPanic: Well, it does arrive in the context of young exchange students. Which I can actually understand hesitating about, but I rather enjoy Christmas Eve more than Christmas. All that wrapping and mystery and imagination . . . Fewer socks, ties, and frankly odd decisions by ones supposedly knowing us best.

  126. 126
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Ruckus: Ted Cruz doesn’t think women are inferior. He thinks everyone is inferior, including all women, and all men who aren’t himself. He takes a lecturing tone because he thinks he’s a genius and everyone else is a moron. He was a debater, at Princeton, with a shelf full of crazy religious books. That’s like douche cubed. I’m sure his parents told him a few too many times that the reason the other kids didn’t like him was that they were all just jealous, and he believed it. I’m sure he’s a sexist too, but he doesn’t respect anyone, of any kind, at all.

  127. 127
    👽 Martin says:

    @SatanicPanic: MIght not have been able to buy ammo. There are shortages all over the country.

  128. 128
    Suzanne says:

    @Yutsano: What is NYD? I’m old now. I don’t know what the Kidz Deez Dayz say anymore.

  129. 129
    Yutsano says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Nothing says you can’t rendezvous in say Paris or Vienna. In fact I’d recommend Vienna. I really really should have taken that train when I was in Munich.

    @Suzanne: New York Dawg. My way of preserving his anonymity. He’s a very private person. But he’s from NYC. Ugh. A city boy. :)

  130. 130
    Suzanne says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    That’s like douche cubed.

    I’m having fun trying to imagine how one might cube a douche. It sounds painful and yet hilarious.

  131. 131
    MattR says:

    @Yutsano: Puppeh is almost 10. Thankfully doesn’t act it and hopefully won’t start to slow down for a while.

    @SatanicPanic:

    As far as knowing what to do- I always thought it was like riding a bicycle. Would you really forget how to do it?

    More like a Love Tractor.

  132. 132
    Ruckus says:

    @Suzanne:
    Maybe it’s because we don’t want to feel like we are taking advantage of her. Which if you think about it is really not respecting the woman to be able to make up her own mind and enter into a casual relationship. Or that we might actually be feeling a bit paternal.

  133. 133
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Yutsano: Always choose Paris. Seriously. Why would this even be open to question? I mean, Paris… Where should I start?

  134. 134
    Suzanne says:

    @Ruckus: If she’s enjoying herself and everyone’s been straight up about what they want, then all should be okay. If he’s feeling paternal, though, THAT is weird. Ew.

    @Yutsano: Yo, I dig. Or something. Please just imagine I said whatever the cool kidz say.

    I really wish I could meet most of the people on this blog. I’d slap Omnes around right now. Just saying.

  135. 135
    Suzanne says:

    I’m sure y’all can see that I am not studying. BARF.

    Eyes on the prize, Snow…..

  136. 136
    Ruckus says:

    @FlipYrWhig:
    Well yeah. In this particular assholes case I think you are right, I was just sort of riffling off of how so many dudes are douchebags in the gender department. Teddy is just a massive equal opportunity douchebag, if you will.

  137. 137
    SatanicPanic says:

    @👽 Martin: That’s a real thing?

  138. 138
    Yutsano says:

    @Suzanne: Well one of my good excuses to go to Arizona is moving up here, so I’ll have to get a bit more creative on that point. I have friends down that way still though. It might yet happen again. Sky Harbour though. Puke.

    @Omnes Omnibus: Can I do both?

    EDIT: And Barcelona. There’s a bucket list item I need to attend to there.

  139. 139
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Suzanne:

    I’d slap Omnes around right now. Just saying.

    Eep.

    @Yutsano:

    Can I do both?

    EDIT: And Barcelona. There’s a bucket list item I need to attend to there.

    You are the one who presented an either/or.

  140. 140
    MattR says:

    @Yutsano: Considering Barcelona as a destination for the group 40th birthday trip next year. The bucket list item something I should consider? Or is it a personal thing?

    We are also thinking about Munich for Oktoberfest or Iceland (and I think a couple guys have other ideas they are researching)

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Eep.

    Remember, the safe word is “green balloons”

  141. 141
    Yutsano says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Actually I was making a suggestion, not a demand. You are free to choose Paris, or Vienna. Or Helsinki if you wanna get really crazy.

    @MattR: Semi-personal but you’re welcome to do so: I need to pray at Sagrada Familia. Since I might not be around when it’s completed. I think austerity set that back even further. Fuck you bankstahs.

  142. 142
    scav says:

    @Yutsano: You managed Prague yet? There are some amazing bits there. For some reason, I’m thinking Bologna personally.

    eta. Helsinki actually tempts too.

  143. 143
    Ruckus says:

    @Suzanne:
    Oh I agree about enjoying each others company and that should be all there is to it. But we are the products of our upbringings and that is one of the things that was sort of out there when I was growing up. Robing the cradle and all. It’s bullshit but it’s there none the less. But your point is valid, an opportunity lost is just that. As I over heard once, we all need to freshen up our gonads once in a while.

  144. 144
    Suzanne says:

    @Ruckus: While I have no doubt that you and Flip are right, don’t forget that Douchey McDoucherson is operating within a society that has told dudes that simply EVERYBODY wants to hear their thoughts on an issue while nice polite ladies should shut their pieholes. Even if he intended no sexism, and is an equal-opportunity douche, he is benefitting from operating in a gendered social framework. He did what is really the essence of mansplaining—assuming that people who disagree with you, typically women, are disagreeing with you because they are uneducated on a specific issue, and because if one truly was knowledgable, there’s only oe proper way to look at the situation. It’s more hurtful to women to do this, because women have been both historically kept from educational and social arenas, as well as told not to assert their opinions.

  145. 145
    wasabi gasp says:

    Don’t do it. You’ll regret not knowing how things might have stayed the same.

    Roxy Music – Remake Remodel

  146. 146
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Yutsano: Sorry. My bad. Still, Paris. Because, Paris.

  147. 147
    MattR says:

    @Yutsano: Ahh, as an agnostic with a Jewish mother and a Roman Catholic father, I think I will pass on the prayer aspect of that. But I can still appreciate the architecture

    @scav: Prague was on our initial list but we are time constrained by people who have to get home to wives and kids (really?) and it is just a bit too far.

  148. 148
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @scav: Prague is beautiful and can be almost fairytale-like. The food is good and booze is still comparatively cheap.

    @wasabi gasp: I have a VHS tape of this show.

  149. 149
    Yutsano says:

    @scav: Praha has not happened yet. I’ve only managed several cities in Germany (Köln was excellent but my fave was Berlin) and Copenhagen. I really should just go to Europa for about a month and get a Eurorail pass.

    @MattR: Gaudi is all over that city. So much by him to appreciate, Sagrada Familia is just one of the biggest examples. But there’s an entire road he designed that has a lucky turtle on it.

  150. 150
    Suzanne says:

    @Yutsano: Sky Harbor is America’s Friendliest Airport!

    @Omnes Omnibus: I wouldn’t slap you HARD. just enough to get some sense into you, FFS. Life is short. Enjoy yourself.

    @Ruckus:

    we all need to freshen up our gonads once in a while.

    I have never heard that. That makes it sound gross. “Gonads” is just a gross word, though. Like “jowls”.

  151. 151
    👽 Martin says:

    @SatanicPanic: Yeah, it is. Someone reputable did an analysis and figured that about ¼ of the population (we’ll round it to 27% for convenience) is buying ammo at roughly 10x the rate of a year ago. AR-15s are 2 years backordered.

  152. 152
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Suzanne: Question: Does anyone think I am not going ahead with this? I am simply indulging my conscience, such as it is, here. I am not an idiot.

  153. 153
    MattR says:

    @Yutsano: I have been having similar thoughts. When I was a kid, my aunt used to always promise that she would take me after college. By the time I graduated she had been forced into early retirement so money was tight and who wants to go to Europe with their aunt anyway. She passed away about a month ago and she left me more than enough to do it now. Unfortunately, I have this job thing that wont let me get away for a month or more and I should probably be using that money in a wiser, more adult manner, like redoing my kitchen so I can sell my apt next year or saving for retirement.

    @Omnes Omnibus: Hence “humble brag” ;)

  154. 154
    Suzanne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Oh, good.

  155. 155
    Ruckus says:

    @Suzanne:
    Same page. And I saw this in my own family. Sister wanted to work at the family business but dad said it was not women’s work and she couldn’t. Of course I was not only allowed but forcefully encouraged to work there. It was my destiny.

  156. 156
    Yutsano says:

    @Yutsano: Actually the turtle is at the Cathedral of Barcelona, not the Parc Güell. But at least I know I’m not crazy here.

  157. 157
    Joey Maloney says:

    @Alison: Give Matt a break. He’s speaking in a fine literary tradition that goes all the way back to Canterbury Tales. I can’t find it now, but there’s an extended riff about a knight plowing a bare field.

  158. 158
    MattR says:

    @Suzanne:

    assuming that people who disagree with you, typically women, are disagreeing with you because they are uneducated on a specific issue, and because if one truly was knowledgable, there’s only oe proper way to look at the situation

    If you expand that to minorities (and liberals/Democrats in general), don’t you have the entire Republican message?

  159. 159
    BethanyAnne says:

    Hey, skipping to the end. My mom met my dad when she was 22, and he was 35. They were married for 24 years until cancer took him. Not a bad run.

  160. 160
    Ruckus says:

    @Suzanne:
    Sorry about that.
    I was afraid some might think about it that way but it is a latin/medical term covering parts of the body of both sexes. And I’ve heard it on prime time TV as well.

  161. 161
    BethanyAnne says:

    And, damn, at times like this I miss Ann Richards. She’d have handed him his ass with a smile. I dunno, maybe “I appreciate that my Canadian friend has been studying our Constitution, but it looks like he has more to learn”

  162. 162

    @BethanyAnne: When my parents were married, my Mom was 21 and my Dad was 29. They were married for 35 years, until he was killed in a car accident.

  163. 163
    BethanyAnne says:

    @The prophet Nostradumbass: It was the “13 years” above that sparked my comment; it was my parent’s age difference.

  164. 164
    Suzanne says:

    @MattR: Yes, pretty much.

    However, I’m often guilty of it myself. I honestly think, based on my experience, that most Republicans are uneducated about how other people live and the cultural structures that have developed to keep people in their various places.

  165. 165
    TS says:

    @Radio One:

    I thought Cruz targeted her not because she was a woman, but because he thought it would invoke an angry response from her because she was a victim of the Moscone/Milk murders in San Francisco. Yes, I really think he’s that vile.

    Doubtful that he knew that – The tea party RWNJs in congress do no homework – they just object to be objectionable

  166. 166
    Joe Richeau says:

    @mai naem:

    He’s not Mexican. He’s Cuban.

    Rafael “Ted” Cruz was born in Canada, to a father who fought for Fidel Castro, and completely unbelievably later claimed that “he didn’t know that Fidel was a communista.”

    This second-generation grifter then went on to marry his current wife, who heads up a division of Goldman Sachs, the vampire squid whose tentacles are currently suffocating the country.

    It is hard to imagine a brew of viler stench.

  167. 167
    serena1313 says:

    Ted Cruz is … argh! … senator of my district…. (I started to say my senator, but I did not vote for him, I did not like from the first time I saw him on TV & like him even less the more I see/read/hear about him.) Somehow he got my email address so I can look forward to his updates. Yippeee …

    after watching the interchange between him & Diane Feinstein, Iam angry. He was so damn condescending, patronizing, arrogant, rude, smug, self-righteous, hubristic, arrogant fu_ _!

    Iam not a fan of Feinstein, but I do respect her. Cruz doesn’t even know the meaning of respect. Obviously the man is smart, but not intelligent and certainly nowhere near or even remotely or even in the vicinity of being described as wise … maybe a wise a_ _, but that is about as good as it gets. He can memorize, parrot back, but he does not think. Seriously. Iam not being hyperbolic. I personally have never seen Cruz display anything but pure arrogance. During an interview, for instance, (right before or right after the election) Cruz told the interviewer he would negotiate as long as he got 100%. And that is the only kind of negotiation’ he planned to do, period.

    The question he presented to Feinstein went something like: The 2nd Amendment in the Bill of Rights … the people have the right …and the right of the people … in the 4th Amendment blah blah and proceeds to ask her if she would deem it consistent with the Constitution for Congress to engage in the same endeavour we are contemplating doing with the second amendment in the context of the 1st or 4th amendment … and would the 4th amendment … it was insane. He was throwing numbers around so fast –a photographic memory? –I couldn’t keep up! It was intentional.

    He was talking about guns one minute, all of sudden he is talking about books … After Feinstein referenced Texas & text books, he switched gears again, never stopped talking, not even for a NY second, and right in mid-sentence, turns, his voice dripping w sarcasm says oh yeah, I appreciate your acknowledging the state of Texas allows books and continued with whatever he was saying. A minute or so later he condescendingly says, “No one doubts your ‘sincerity’ or ‘passion’ but I would note *she* chose not to answer the question.”

    Conversely Feinstein was remarkable. Anyone could see she was angry, offended, ready to strike back (rightfully so) yet she stayed focused and handled him like a pro. He insulted her, she kept her cool. He was very offensive, she was respectful. He is a rookie, she is a professional. She also gave him the “what-for” without sounding harsh. I don’t know if he was caught off-guard, confused or didn’t know what to do, but he looked a little stunned despite his poker face. Suffice to say my respect for DF was raised a notch or two.

    And yes, Feinstein also kept up with his question and Cruz had the nerve to talk down to her!

  168. 168
    Lurking Canadian says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Let me be the first to say, “pics or it didn’t happen”. Some of us can only date hot twentysomething exchange students vicariously, you know.

  169. 169
    Todd says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    @Yutsano: Don’t work with her. No chance of long-term – European student on a visa who leaves in May. More than 25 year age difference. Her main problem with me: my hair isn’t gray enough.

    Go for it – live the dream.

  170. 170
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    Gotta love BJ open threads! From Ted Cruz to OO’s flirtation with the woman in springtime. Carpe Diem indeed.

  171. 171
    MomSense says:

    @Alison:

    Definitely a sexist mofo–and yes we can just tell. It really is that simple.

    Ironically he chose to be condescending to her with an incredibly weak argument.

  172. 172
    JoyfulA says:

    @Mandalay: He has a lot of trouble keeping up with all the laws and taxes and stuff. Great guy to represent you in the state assembly.

    With the marijuana, maybe he thought the medical marijuana law passed, even though he voted against it, so a veterinarian being sort of a medical person, he was entitled to smoke it.

  173. 173
    aimai says:

    I’d like to add something to the previous part of the conversation about sexism. Sexism is really in the eye and experience of the beholder so yes, Cruz’s particular method of speaking to an older, senior to him, woman about her field of expertise (governing, writing laws) was insolent in a peculiarly sexist way. But another way of thinking about it is not that its sexist because of the way it makes her and other women feel but because he enjoys it/indulges in it particularly because of the way it makes him feel and the way it makes him feel can’t be abstracted from the sex and age of the target.

    People have pointed out that he attacked Hagel too, and Hagel is a man. But the way he attacked Hagel indicated a respect for Hagel as a (dangerous) man and falls into a different category from the way he attacked Feinstein. He implied Hagel was a traitor, not a childlike fool.

    I’d say the sexism that Feinstein and other women see in the attack on her also has to do with the infantilization of her. This is something that both women and African Americans are used to seeing white men express towards them rhetorically all the time. Lecturing someone older than you, senior to you in your field (the Senate), senior to you in that she has actually passed laws not just studied them in law school, is more than merely insulting. Once you tack on the actual sex (or race) of the person being condescended to it takes on a different valence because it takes place in a different discussion, a longer cultural discussion in which the experiences and knowledge of women and non whites are dismissed as of no value. I’d say that even turning the discussion into a kind of imaginary socratic dialogue “answer my question/she doesn’t answer my question” was infantilizing and sexist.

    At any rate the entire discussion “was it sexist or wasn’t it” is also like the discussion “was it racist or wasn’t it” in that it clearly makes (some kinds) of people extremely uncomfortable to accept that an ordinarily abusive, meanspirited, ugly, condescending, inappropriate, manipulative exchange in a legislative setting can alsobe described as sexist or racist–why is that? I’d venture to say that classifying it as sexist or racist is seen as kind of unfair to the kind of guys who use this language/style because it would prevent them from doing so in the future. Its the same argument that is advanced against having some acts classified as “hate crimes” because if the act is bad it should already be illegal but somehow labeling it a “hate crime” is criminalizing though or intent.

    I don’t agree with this perspective. Sexist and racist attitudes in debate are tools of a larger kind of oppression, a way of disabling your opponent. Maybe people like Cruz should be called on their shit as a way of keeping the playing field level and keeping them from using their white/male privilige to prevent other people’s viewpoints from getting a fair hearing.

    I enjoyed difi’s response which is exactly what I would have wanted to say if I’d been her.

  174. 174
    lojasmo says:

    @Mandalay:

    Good.

    40joel hanes Says:

    So the cops killed a woman, and the man is being charged with that woman’s death.
    “NOW look what you made me do!” — the claim of someone too immature or dishonest to own their actions.
    Reply
    March 17th, 2013 at 1:07 am

    Hey, jackass. Sometimes innocent people die when officers respond to some maniac on a rampage. It is fitting that the maniac be charged for whatever mayhem ensues.

  175. 175
    CorbinDallasMultipass says:

    @aimai:

    I’d venture to say that classifying it as sexist or racist is seen as kind of unfair to the kind of guys who use this language/style because it would prevent them from doing so in the future.

    I think you are right. I’d clarify it may stem partially from how white men want to identify themselves, such that they put the cart before the horse.

    1. I’m not sexist/racist.
    2. I use this language/style.
    3. That language/style can’t be racist.

    I’d argue that sometimes language/style is picked up from the culture you exist in. If you exist in that culture, without thinking hard about sexism/racism, then you may pick up language/style that is racist/sexist without realizing it. Which is why so many people get caught up in the argument that it isn’t racist/sexist – if it is part of their culture and they don’t identify as sexist so therefor it is incompatible.

    “Its the same argument that is advanced against having some acts classified as “hate crimes” because if the act is bad it should already be illegal but somehow labeling it a “hate crime” is criminalizing though or intent.”

    Right – since I am not sexist/racist, then since my intent in using this language/style can’t be sexist/racist, then it is not sexist/racist. It’s conforming the world to your view. Or as TNC said (http://www.theatlantic.com/nat.....ld/273885/):

    “I think what we have here is a working definition of an asshole — a person who demands that all social interaction happen on their terms.”

    An asshole demands you recognize the logical progression above. A decent person realizes it’s wrong.

  176. 176
    Central Texas says:

    But Annie, of course it is just “Ted being Ted”. Ted is an arrogant, entitiled, aggressive, little dick. He seems to feel the need to remind folks of that every time he sees a camera or a microphone.

    As to Sen. Feinstein, to my knowledge she has never encountered a pentagon boondoggle, security farce, hysterical war promotion, or erosion of constiution or civil liberties that bothered her in the least. So long as someone promises that she and a few colleagues who are fellow lovers of all things militaristic and authoritarian are told a few secrets, she is happy to vote as expected.

    I will take your word for her feminist credentials while noting that women and men would be better off with far less of the spending that she routinely advocates.

  177. 177
    dance around in your bones says:

    RE: the age difference in relationships, I met my (future) husband when I was 15 and he was 20.

    For years afterward, he would insist I say he was 19 when I met him because it sounded less pervy.

    In any case, we lasted over 40 years married.

  178. 178
    sparrow says:

    @Suffern ACE: As a 29 year-old dating a 48 year-old, I’d say the divide by 2 + 7 rule is really silly. If you are matched intellectually and maturity-wise, and are open about things, the only real barrier is if both of you are adults (nominally 18, but for some it may be a bit older, let’s be honest). If that’s satisfied, go for it.

  179. 179
    A Humble Lurker says:

    Well, now you know how ABL feels all the time.

  180. 180
    meepers says:

    @MattR: Iceland is a place where everybody, literally ERRRYBODY, gets smashed on Saturday night. At least in Reykavik. There were copious puddles of vomit on Sunday morning when I was there.

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